Defining Hospitality

Dan Ryan: today's guest is an innovative industry leader. He's building an enduring company with great people. He's responsible for leading wood binds investment strategy across all asset types. He's managing partner and chief investment officer at Woodbine Development Corporation. Ladies and gentle. Skoal, welcome.
Dupree Scovell: Thanks. Glad to be here.
Dan Ryan: I just, it's so funny. Um, anyway, it's really wonderful to see you. Um, for those of you who don't know, I've met you a couple times. We've met a couple times at industry events, kind of in passing.
Never really a deep [00:01:00] conversation. Um, what's interesting is I was in the lobby of your building, having a meeting with some people on your team, and I was like, oh, I want to get him on the podcast. So I took this picture of you from the side while you're in a meeting with someone. I sent it to you. I said, I hope this isn't too creepy, but I'd love to hear your story.
Um, so that I share that with everyone because when there's a leader in your industry or anything that you're doing and you want to get. I think by any means necessary, tell them you want to hear their story and they'll probably respond. So thank you Dupree.
Dupree Scovell: Yeah. Well, my pleasure. I was actually scrolling through our emails trying to figure out. , you know, kinda the agenda for today. And I saw that picture where, where I have that hat on, which I always wear, but, uh, . But, but I, I was like, oh yeah, that's how we reconnected. So, but glad to do it.
Dan Ryan: so, and thank you. And thank you for supporting our industry in so many different ways. Um, Before we get into the so many different ways and just community support and, and just [00:02:00] everything. One of the things that I was really struck by in speaking with you, um, in our prep call for this was just I felt like as we were talking about what drives you, I felt like. your values were about to like explode out of your body. Like you had to kind of hold them back. Right. And I just feel like there are many people who we all speak to, but it just really struck you strike me as someone who is very value driven and it just so much. So teeing it up with that,
Dupree Scovell: Sure.
Dan Ryan: let's get right into the first question and was just like, this is defining hospitality.
How do you define hospitality?
Dupree Scovell: Yeah. Well, I mean, look, how deep do we want to go here? Right? That, uh, but that's a, that's a deep question. That's, and, and I think, look, every, everybody, I think, hopefully finds purpose, um, in work. , um, hopefully they don't find their identity in [00:03:00] work, but they find their purpose in work. And so for me, hospitality is a, is a deep spiritual value.
It's, it's, um, I mean, I'll, I'll say it in a way that hopefully is, um, is, is kind and gentle to the audience, but for me, um, this is a, it's a, it's a biblically based value that I think if you look back to, um, you know, the times of Christ. Hospitality was a central tenant of how he lived and how he encouraged his followers live.
Now, I'll be the first to admit that's not exactly the wrap a lot of times that, that, uh, that you see today. But, but that's what that's why hospitality, I think, means so much to us, to our family, to our company, is that it's an expression. Of a truth that we believe is like core to who we are. And so that kindness, that gentleness, that friendliness, that hospitality, that is extended to our guests, to people we work [00:04:00] with, to, partners, that we have partners that are financial partners or partners that are partners in design or construction or FF&E or whatever that might.
be Th that that's, that's something where we think that is where hospitality can be equally extended there. And so from that perspective, it's one of those things where I think that is, um, that's, that's kind of core to who we are, which is why we feel like that's such an important way to express our own, our own value, um, our own values.
So I hopefully that gives you a little bit of sense of it. But, but, uh, that is how I would define hospitality much more than someone staying in a guest room that. That's not hospitality. That's a, that's a, that's an essential. Um, but when you are extending, uh, you know, that warm welcome. Hello that, uh, place to sleep.
Um, in fact, I just a side note, today I was at, um, went to go see Austin Street Shelter, which is just outside of, uh, downtown Dallas, which [00:05:00] is this incredible. Entity organization that is providing services to homeless folks, uh, folks that are long term, uh, homeless or short term. And it's just a remarkable organization.
And you kind of go in there and it, it is, and, and I toured the whole facility and I met some of the team. And I mean, it is, it is the exact same fundamental practice. They have a kind face that welcomes that individual who's coming in off the street who. Doesn't feel like they belong anywhere. And it's, and it's making them feel completely warm and at home and engaging them kindly and saying, Hey, you, you can be fed here.
You can be clothed here. You can be, you can, and you can have a place to sleep and where you are safe. And so, I mean, at the end of the day, I don't know that we have much difference between a homeless shelter and, and the hotel business that we in. And, and sometimes in, in the, the even luxury hotel space that.
Maybe at the end of the day we're, we're, we're not so different, uh, in terms of our purpose and mission and value [00:06:00] there. So maybe a little aside, but that does give a little bit of insight into how hopefully we think.
Dan Ryan: I don't think it's an aside at all. I think, you know, the staying in the room
Dupree Scovell: Okay.
Dan Ryan: what, right? It's the why that the why is, is the values and the deeper. that I think drives us all. And I, I love how you said, you know, we, we shouldn't really find our purpose at work. Our work should come from, we, we should be engaged in our work and love our work, but our purpose and our why has to come from something else other than the work has to come from
Dupree Scovell: Sure. Sure.
Dan Ryan: for the, for the listeners who don't know, congratulations on, like, on a big milestone, you guys just hit your 50th anniversary.
Dupree Scovell: we did, we, we at 50, which obviously I didn't have a whole lot to do with, but, uh, but I mean, we lean heavily on the vision of my father. In fact, I was with a great, uh, a guy named Greg Massey. He was with the first United Bank. I was with him, um, uh, last night, and we were, we were just talking about how [00:07:00] his bank started.
Now, keep in mind, this bank today is probably, I don't know, I, I would guess somewhere between, somewhere between 10 and 20 billion today. It started with one branch and Durant, Oklahoma that his dad started, and his dad, he gives us that credit for why this organization has been able to scale to a, you know, again, 10 to $20 billion bank.
But he had. He had that local branch absolutely doubted and he meaning his father, and every interaction was thought was thoughtful and, and if you came in looking for a loan, hey, here's the playbook, here's the list of questions you need to ask. Here's how you engage all these types of things that, and so I was talking to Greg and he was like, look, all I did is I took the things that my dad did.
And they just happened to be so good and so efficient that I was just able to go, okay, we can scale those practices and, and become the bank that they've become under his leadership. And so I think in many ways, Woodbine has done the same thing. We have taken the track record that my dad has created, we have taken his values, we, we have taken how he does business, [00:08:00] how he treats his partner.
We, we've taken all those types of lessons and said, okay, how can we apply those today? Which is a very different environment in terms of how we, um, how we develop, how we acquire. Uh, how we grow. But, but generally, at the end of the day, like the, the values, those are enduring. I heard, I heard somebody say like that, your only competitive advantage, no matter what business you, you're in, is your culture, which I think is fair because in one way or the other, most of the time we're offering a commodity unless we're involved in some kind of monopoly.
But in, in this case, There's a lot of developers out there, there's a lot of, a lot of acquisition shops out there. So really it is about, okay, if your values have to be the key differentiating factor that someone says, that's a team I want to go work with. And so there's a long way of answering your question.
Um, that 50th year, uh, my brother and I, uh, who I run the business with, we don't take a lot of credit for it. We feel like that's at the building on a pretty good.
Dan Ryan: Mm-hmm. as you're speaking about culture, it's really resonating with me because I think [00:09:00] it's the hardest thing to create, but when it's done well, you just feel it. You really know. And if so, if you think about culture that your dad created and you're perpetuating, or your whole team is perpetuating because it takes a whole community
Dupree Scovell: Right.
Dan Ryan: to make culture live and breathe, um, what do you. The, like, the most significant aspects of that culture have contributed to your company's longevity and success within the hospitality industry. And you're also in other channels within real estate, um, but specifically in hospitality.
Dupree Scovell: Well, I guess I could go two different ways when you, when you're asking that question, you mean more about the people or you mean more about what the company has done? I, I can kind of go probably either direction.
Dan Ryan: Let's start with what the company has. And you can, uh, weave in the people along the way.
Dupree Scovell: yeah, sure. Look, I think reputation is a key part of our business. Um, and it's not [00:10:00] often where you can go into a meeting and um, and you can hear the person on the other side of the table say, Hey, call whoever we've done business with and ask 'em whether they were someone we sold to, someone we bought from someone we borrowed money.
or whoever, whatever capacity that is, we encourage you to call them. And so from I, you know, and that's not, that's not arrogance. It's more saying, Hey, we expect you to do your homework. We want you to feel like you can call any one of our partners and ask 'em. And so reputation is something that, that, you know, that takes, that takes a long time to build.
It takes a very short time to lose.
Dan Ryan: Hmm.
Dupree Scovell: so we've really tried to do our best to be able to, to, to lean into that. Um, on the reputation that my dad has built. And so we, we treasure that we, we value that. We're careful with that. We feel like we are stewards of that. Um, but at the same time, look, there's, there's, in, in any industry, you're never gonna be without conflict, you're never gonna be without, you know, those types of things where there are disagreements within [00:11:00] partners.
Our hope is that even with that, when that happens, like we're gonna hand our ourselves in a way where it's like, look, we are looking for the common ground. We are not looking to have a zero sum game where it. , somebody must win and somebody must lose that. That's ideally not the way we treat any negotiation.
Uh, so I think to, to answer that question, I would say by and large, oh, by and large, I'd say probably the number one, um, I debate on this actually. So we have, we have five values that we kind of live and die by. Relationships, effort, accountability, conviction, and humility. Our team will hear me say, well, this is the most important one.
No, no, no. Relationships is the most important one. No, humility is the most important one. So I go back and forth depending on where we are. Uh, but I, I do think humility is probably the most important value at the end of the day. I think the second one is probably relationships. And so those two are hopefully what everyone would say.
Yeah, you can count on that from, from.
Dan Ryan: [00:12:00] Hmm. Um, it's interesting. I, I've been a value driven company, I don't know, for I think about 10 years. Um, and really going through that core value exercise is a tremendous. Exercise and it's, you don't always get it right the first time. It's, it's a lot of
Dupree Scovell: Yeah,
Dan Ryan: Um, we've removed a core value. Uh, but an
Dupree Scovell: sure.
Dan Ryan: one cuz you said humility at the bottom of that list. Um, we had one that was caring, that was at the bottom of the list, I said at one point I was like, you know what, we need to move that to the top.
Dupree Scovell: Mm-hmm.
Dan Ryan: would you consider mo moving humility to the top? Do you ever go through that and rev and revise your
Dupree Scovell: Well, no, cuz then it messes up the word the, the word is reach.
Dan Ryan: Oh,
Dupree Scovell: so then, but that's the only reason. Otherwise I'd probably be here. Or something like that. . But anyway, it's a, you look, I, I, I think from, um, the humility thing is something that I would say [00:13:00] that's a direct reflection of my dad. And, and, uh, I, I don't necessarily, I, I hate to go too far down this, this, this role model, hero thing, but at the end of the day, you know, a company is oftentimes defined by its founder, right?
And that founder's values, those are, they're directly linked to how the company operates and. You were describing something when you were got, when you, your company, was searching for values and going through that process just like everybody does. We'd been around 50 years. We'd actually been around 40, uh, let's see, I think it was 44 years when we started this, when we actually looked at our values and said, Hey, are our values actually who we are?
Because we actually adapt, adopted those from the hunt family and the hunt companies, which is where our company originated from. , ironically, those values that the hunt companies live by, were, were very, we, we could relate to those. There was about 10 of 'em, and there were all words that we would have used in, in terms [00:14:00] of how you would describe our business, but they didn't necessarily land perfectly.
It didn't feel like a great fit. So, um, long story short, there was a, um, There was an, an exercise that my dad did called the strength finder, uh, that you've probably heard of. And this was recycled through a random email that he had done 10 years before. And somebody sent it to me and I got it and I was looking at it, I was going, oh my gosh, these are the five values.
So then, you know, it's not perfect translation. So we revised them to where it would fit. Uh, a little bit more about what. Who we are. So that's where Reach came from and that's why those five, I think all of a sudden felt like such a natural fit. And now that's really what we preach in, in every, you know, setting we get.
Dan Ryan: I think it's also a testament to the fact that, you know, it's not surprising that you were living or you had values for 43 years and then you really did a deep dive and they, and they changed to become
Dupree Scovell: Mm-hmm.
Dan Ryan: But I think that's a Testa. They're not a necessarily a fixed thing either. [00:15:00] Right. And it, and that goes along with, you know, whatever got us to where we are now might not serve us forward.
So I think it's really awesome that you're going through that exercise. Cuz I think those values, there's so many companies where it's like it's a poster on a, in a break room, but they don't talk about it. And I feel like with Reach in particular, or our values or other value-driven companies, and there's all different shapes and size, It's something that you really have to speak about you, you praise, you give, feed, you critical feedback on, um, it becomes how you attract people, how you retain people, how you part ways with people, um, and, and investors I'm sure as well.
Dupree Scovell: Sure. No, that's right. You, you said something interesting at the front of that that I think is spot on when you think about, you know, just because it's the way things have been done in the past doesn't mean that's the way they need to be done in the future. It's something my, my dad has told me a lot. In fact, when we joined, when my brother and I joined the business, that was a, that was a big [00:16:00] part of what he.
Was, uh, charging us with was look, and again, that that's just a testimony to his humility, but he was looking at a lot of the changes that we were making, and he was looking at a lot of the, the, the, you know, major changes, how we do meetings, um, you know, some of our internal policies, how we hire, how big the team was, how small the team was, these types of things that were.
A set entity for, you know, before my brother and I got involved 30 something years. And so then to have two young knuckleheads come in and go, Hey, we gotta do this, we gotta change that. We gotta shorten this, make this longer, get rid of that. You know, if I'm the founder, I'm going, Hey, hey, time out, time out.
I've been, I've been, I've been just fine without you for a long time, you know, 30 plus years now. I don't need you to come in and tell me how to do this thing. , but that wasn't his attitude. His attitude was, look, just cuz that's the way we've always done it doesn't need mean that's the way we need to do it in the future.
And so that's where that [00:17:00] humility thing comes in. And I think then there's also, of course, that plays out a hundred different ways. You're negotiating a loan doc with a lender and, and you, you know, oftentimes, or, or an equity partner or a seller or whatever that case is. And it's like the attitude is typically, Hey, I'm gonna win and you're gonna lose.
and I think that it's not exactly the most humble approach. It's not wrong, it's just not, not necessarily a humble approach. And so we kinda look at it and go, well, look, there's gotta be a middle ground. There's gotta be common ground in there somewhere. Let's try and figure that out, and then we can figure out what, which points are more important on either side.
Dan Ryan: So some of the, it's, it's interesting cuz I, that taps back to that idea of the zero sum game, which you mentioned earlier, and some of the most successful people know. If I could summarize, Kind of what makes them probably what was the fuel to make them very successful is they're so good at any, in any [00:18:00] situation, at finding that place where everyone wins, right?
It's the relationships, the collision, it becomes accretive and it's a one plus one equals a three or a five or a hundred, but it's, it doesn't have to be a zero sum game. I, I don't know. Like, and, and it's just like, uh, it's really inspiring when I'm around my, my friends who are like that. And it just always makes me think differently about how I operate. Um, what are some examples of finding that everybody wins situation in a large transaction? Do you have any that you could share?
Dupree Scovell: Yeah, I'm glad you asked that actually. Well, I'll, I'll give you a person first versus an example, but, um, and so I used to work at Tramel Crow. There was a guy named Bob Selenick who is the, who is the current ceo and Tramo, well, he's the CBO of, he, he is the c o of C B R E. So, Cb. Richard Elli, C B R E, bought Tramel Crow.
He was the CEO of Trammel Crow at the time. And then much of that leadership team became, [00:19:00] uh, the leadership team that ran C B R E. And, and so I, this was not a conversation I directly had with Bob, although I'd had many with him and it matches his character. But a guy that he was working for, we were kind of just reminiscing about how.
How beneficial it was to be under his tutelage. How, how great it was for us to just, to have the accessibility to a guy like that. And cuz he is just, he's just talk about humility there. There's very few like him, but he was describing to my former colleague, he was kind of saying, look, I don't know if I'm just bad at negotiation now.
I just, maybe I'm just not good at it anymore, but I just don't have time to argue. I don't wanna argue. I can't, I don't wanna fight anymore. I'd much rather get to the quickest solution possible where both sides feel like there's, there's, hopefully both have won . And I was like, that, that makes a lot of sense.
I mean it, so, so it almost like maybe accelerated that in my own career and it gave me excuse to say, I need to get there quicker. I don't need to, [00:20:00] I don't need, that. Shouldn't take me 20 years to learn that. Let me just learn what he, he's already learned and get there now. And so I think that actually influenced me.
Uh, a little bit more than probably that colleague or Bob Selenick even knows, but, but his willingness to say, look, just a lot easier to go find the common ground first, then let's negotiate. Versus like, okay, let's establish our position and just fight it out until, until you, you know, you can't even see straight.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And it's interesting because, uh, there's so many negotiations that you hear about where it's like, okay, in a negotiation or a mediation, everyone needs to kind of lower their expectations, but all parties lower and then they meet somewhere in the middle. But I'm sure that with Bob and finding the, uh, I don't know him, but finding. Common ground and going from there. It, it is a place where in a negotiation, everyone can win.
Dupree Scovell: Yeah. Yeah. And look, I mean, there's not, it is a scenario where, where. Yeah, I guess it could be cliche. It, it is, [00:21:00] there are sometimes where that's just impossible. Where, where there's going to be scenarios where it's like, Hey, we cannot compromise on this because of whatever reason, and that other party may have something similar.
And if those, those two don't align ob, sometimes that'll lead to a deal going away. But, but I think to the extent possible, at least, um, sometimes, sometimes it's not necessarily that both teams win. Sometimes both teams feel like. lost a little.
Dan Ryan: Yeah.
Dupree Scovell: Uh, so, so it's, it's not always perfect, but, but it at least is, can be a guiding principle.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. It's not always perfect, but there are times when it does work out, and I think if that's the North star that you're trying to get to, um, it's, it's, it's a great place to be. Um, so with respect to the person who helped. kind of, or mentored you whether he realized it or not. Um, is there a transaction or a, a deal that you guys have done at Woodbine or in, in your career that kind of exemplifies [00:22:00] that?
Dupree Scovell: Oh, sure. I mean, I, well, e I li I literally could point to e every single one of our transactions where that has, that has, you know, been true whether, by the way, whether that's, um, Between my brother and I when we're debating about what the Woodbine logo should be. on our vest . Right? I mean, that's like, Hey, what's important to you?
Why is that important to you? Okay. You know, so that transaction all the way up to buying the Driscoll in Austin, um, you know, last year where, uh, there we were, Hyatt was the seller. Hyatt is a group that we have, uh, a long history with about 50 year relationship with basically. Um, and because they were one of the first hotels, uh, groups that we developed with, They were the owner of that asset, they knew that we wanted to own it.
Um, so there's a, there's a position of leverage there for sure. And there was, there was a lot of points about that where, um, most [00:23:00] buyers would've said, Hey, we need to be able to get, we wanna unencumber the asset. We don't necessarily want to have Hyatt as the manager. Well, we're in a unique position where Hyatt has managed for us on many assets.
And so we could look at that and say, well, that's, that's actually probably a point of advantage for us to be able to say we're willing to have them in the. as manager longer because we can, we, we trust them as an operator. So that, that for us was saying, okay, there's, there's a give and take on either side of it, but those are opportunities where those negotiations really never got contentious.
They were sometimes long, but they didn't get contentious because they had the same mentality. It was, Hey, how do we figure out how to make this work? Of course then you had, while this is going on, you have Ukraine war, you have all these other things that start. and, and, and they're hopping around the world.
And there was not a scenario where it was like, okay, now we wood mind can take advantage of that or vice versa. Um, it was really a scenario. It was like, okay, we're gonna need more time to let the debt market start to settle [00:24:00] out. Let's kind of figure out how to do that together. And that's where, again, it's never, never perfect.
We had to give up on some things and Woodman had, or, uh, Hyatt had to give up on some things, but, but negotiating with them, particularly a guy named James, Frankie, uh, over there, that that was a wonderful. Um, all, all the, you know, tough at times, but it, it was that, that's where you leave that and at the end of the day, we're having a closing event and we're inviting all of them to it because it's like, Hey, we appreciate your participation in that, that that's the way a partnership should look like.
Where both sides can win. They got a great price. We think we got a great price. We got a great hotel. They sold a great hotel. They're still managing it, right? They know we're gonna invest a ton and then all those kind of things I think are, that's just.
Dan Ryan: Mm-hmm. Wow. Thank you for sharing that.
Dupree Scovell: Sure.
Dan Ryan: a really exciting project and I can't wait for that one to
Dupree Scovell: Yeah.
Dan Ryan: repositioned, so that's, that's really cool.
Dupree Scovell: Thank you.
Dan Ryan: I know you mentioned, uh, humility. The H and Reach. [00:25:00] you think about your role, yours, your brothers, your fathers, and everyone actually in Woodbine, how does that, you think to the future, how does humility such a major role in like how you see the future playing out?
Dupree Scovell: All right. That, that's an interesting question. Um, so on, on the fly with not a whole lot of time to think about it. Um, I think there is a, when you are pursuing, well, let's just take the market conditions now, right? Where you, in the middle of a banking crisis, um, you are, uh, interest rates are three x what they used to be, um, a very difficult transaction environment.
Uh, and, and you. Like, you know, everybody's saying, Hey, how are things going? What, what? What's that look? You know? Is this year busy for you guys? Well, yes, busy cuz we have a lot of existing projects that we owned prior to this point [00:26:00] that we're working on. But at the same time it's like, hey, I think we're, we're, we kind of have to have the humility to know that this year from an acquisition or development standpoint is probably gonna be slow.
Dan Ryan: Mm-hmm.
Dupree Scovell: we two ways to, to do that. Either you go, no, no, that's not the way we are. We're gonna charge forward. We're gonna go, we're gonna buy something else. We're gonna, you know, and that, that leads to probably not great decision making. Or you go, Hey, like we, we gotta, we kinda have to, we're gonna have to take our lumps this year and, and kinda work our way through it until we feel like it's a better time to be able to acquire.
So that, that's like the immediate near time or near term. But I think then you think about, Uh, you know, 10 years down the road, I think the question is, well, what, what are we, what are we building for?
Dan Ryan: Mm-hmm.
Dupree Scovell: doing? How are we growing? Um, and for us, I, I think there's humil in this, and, and it may just be a matter of perspective, but our goal is not to be the trammel crow of the hospitality business.
We, we don't want to have 50 offices [00:27:00] around the country. That's, that's not who we are. But we do wanna grow this company with great people, as you alluded to earlier. That's part of our vision. We wanna grow this business in a methodical way. We want to be, so our, our real, uh, uh, kind of mission for us is saying an enduring company.
We wanna look back and say, okay, 50 years from now when we're celebrating a hundred, what do we do to patiently grow the business? And I think that's, that's less about being the biggest, and that's more about being. The enduring company, the company that perseveres. So, you know, I, I don't know if humility is in that.
It feels like it is to me, but that I think that would probably affect that. That at least informs how we anticipate our growth.
Dan Ryan: Oh, I, I agree. I mean, that's, that's resonating with me and so often you hear scale, scale, scale, grow, grow, grow. Um, but to really just in endure, and I've shared this a couple times in conversations, [00:28:00] I read a book called, Small giants by a guy, bold Burling game, I think his name is. I'll send it to you after. But it, I wish I read that at the beginning of my entrepreneurial journey because it was really just about, It a bunch of different companies that made a conscious effort to sit, to stay small and
Dupree Scovell: Yeah.
Dan Ryan: it to their community and be the best that they could be and endure. I don't, I'm, I'm curious if I, like, did a search on a Kindle, like how many times they used the word endure, but I bet they, I don't remember that word being used very much.
So I really your angle on, an enduring company. So I think that that's a really good thread to pull on. Dupree you recently posted in LinkedIn, uh, as a way of kind of giving back for your 50th anniversary celebrations, like a lot of the community work that you're doing.
Dupree Scovell: Sure,
Dan Ryan: it within Dallas, I assume it's within Dallas, which probably could be in more places.
Um, but like can you share more about [00:29:00] the local organizations you're supporting and like how you're collaborating with them?
Dupree Scovell: sure. I mean, like I, we, we. . Yeah, there's probably two that I would talk about. Um, I mentioned Austin Street earlier, which is one that we have gotten behind. Paul Quinn College is another one that we've gotten behind, just in a remarkable H B C U located here in Dallas, uh, led by a guy named Dr. Michael Sorell.
Um, that that is, uh, I mean, what he's doing out there is, I mean, they kind of call, they call it nation building. That's what it is. I mean, I walked into this gym and, uh, to. We were meeting with Dr. Sll about this gift with, with the intent that hopefully our message would encourage others, almost a call to action in a way to be able to give to the university.
And so, um, but there was a, a girls' basketball practice going on at the time. Dr. Sll kind of, you know, looks at these gals. Um, uh, not, not like I'm almost expectingly like a [00:30:00] coach. And I mean, they drop the basketballs, they come right over and they shake our hand. They say, you know, they say their name, they say where they're from, they say what their major is.
They say what they intend to do when they get outta college. And I'm like, wow. Like look, that's not going on at, well, I'm not gonna name a university, but that's not going on at most universities.
Dan Ryan: Yeah.
Dupree Scovell: And I was just so impressed with that type. Character development at the same time where you're, you're obviously promoting, you know, education and so that, that's a neat thing.
But my brother's been really involved with the isd Dallas Independent School District, and, and he's done, he's probably done more for Hillcrest than just about the Hillcrest High School than just about anyone including like, Arch, the architecture of a bond campaign that would help rebuild a gym and, and, uh, donations to build a, a, a new locker room.
I mean, just all these types of things that are, that are really improving that school as an institution for that neighborhood. And of course, you know, it, it's, it shouldn't just start and stop with us. , [00:31:00] you know, his wife is the president of pta. You know, my mom, you know, my mom's involved with dozens of different organizations.
So that's something real, real where when you think about, uh, kind of the DNA of who we are, that that was something that was encouraged first by my grandparents who were involved in all kinds of things in Dallas. And so, , then that, of course passed down to my dad who was involved in a hundred different things.
And now we feel like, look, the obligation is not, it's, it's not, you know, if we are going to be involved, it's what we're going to be involved with. So, you know, among those things are some of the ones that, that, uh, that I mentioned, probably the one that means the most to, to me. And that I, that I think has been really impactful.
One, there's probably two. One is called Scobel. Which is a high school scholarship foundation that, that, uh, that our family started that really tries to give scholarships to. Um, and it's usually small balance scholarships, five to 10 k to kids that are going, uh, that are, that have some [00:32:00] connection to leadership or sports.
that are coming from an economically disadvantaged background. And so, and you know, that's not, like, that's not the captain of the football team. It's not necessarily the valedictorian. Sometimes it's the, it's the trainer or the water boy or the guy that's the facilities. You're the, the equipment manager for the band, right?
That, that has that, that is just, but it tells a great story, comes from a tough background and wants to go, you know, tries is trying to make themselves, you know, create opportunity for themselves. That's. The second one is called Scoville Business Leaders Program. Which is at Texas Tech, and that takes a percentage.
Uh, the students apply to be a part of that program. They're at Texas Tech, they're in the business school program, and then they just have a unique track within that. Now they're meeting with business leaders. There's an internship program through our company that we facilitate with them. They are going, they're doing an international, um, uh, kind of transfer program.
There's just, there's a whole lot of things that they, that they get to experience as a part of [00:33:00] that. Then, then we get to invest in those kids in, in, in one way or another. So those are two that I think are doing, that are having just a, an interesting ripple effect. But then, you know, look, I could go on and on about the things here in Dallas, but there are also parts in, uh, that, that, you know, proposition A, which won't mean much to your listeners, was a local, uh, bond campaign effectively, if you will, uh, referendum that was.
allow for the development of a convention center here in Dallas. And that's something that I got really passionate about because that affects our industry, that affects the trajectory of downtown. I also think it writes a lot of wrongs from an infrastructure standpoint that were created in Dallas that separated the south from the north.
So those are types of things where it's like, we try to pick our spots fairly carefully, but when it is something we wanna be passionate about, it's like, Hey, we're going all chips in
Dan Ryan: Wow, you got a busy plate there. Um,
Dupree Scovell: I guess. So.
Dan Ryan: wait, so now shifting over to the family business. So, you know, you talk, you hear these stories of [00:34:00] Albert Einstein saying, you know, the most incredible thing he's ever heard of. Compounding interest. Right. He like can't get his head around it. And that's Einstein for, from a, a monetary perspective. But I would say to Mr. Einstein that I think if family businesses, so many are done incorrectly, but from a family multi-generational business, if done well, what's more important than the compounding interest, I think are the compounding relationships because. I think re like going back to your first core value, relationships.
Relationships are really what make everything ha happen regardless of money, return properties, transaction. It really all comes down to that inter-party
Dupree Scovell: Mm-hmm. . Sure.
Dan Ryan: and because I guess it's the r and reach, but like from a re relationship perspective, how do you guys as a family business manage that relationship so that every. Obviously, I'm sure it's [00:35:00] not all rainbows and unicorns
Dupree Scovell: Mm-hmm.
Dan Ryan: how do you resolve, um, conflict within your family relationship so that you're still doing good for the whole, for the whole company and the whole organization and the whole community.
Dupree Scovell: Well, I'll, I'll, I'll start with a couple stories, so I'll back up just a little bit and say, um, first of all, we had an unbelievable example with the Hunt family. So, uh, Ray Hunt, uh, took over the oil and gas business for his father who died unexpectedly. Now, his father discovered a well an oil and gas well that made him the richest man in the world at one.
And so there was fantastic wealth that was associated with that. And then this company, of course, though, it's not just one, well, I mean, it, it, it, it's, it was a massive enterprise. Mr. Hunt was now charged with taking that business over. Um, and y a lot of [00:36:00] unique fan family dynamic dynamics there. I think, uh, I remember I had seven or eight different siblings, so.
A lot of that was actually stuff that we learned by watching, by watching how their family did it. and, and naturally a bigger family like that, there are a lot of different pockets. Um, you know, you got Lamar Hunt on his side, which was, you know, Kansas City Chiefs in the sports business and those things, which that's a remarkable family.
So there's, there's a lot of different parts and pieces to it. But if you look at Mr. Hunt's direct family, I think his, his three sisters, um, that were involved in the business are involved in a way that, that I, I believe, you know, were participating in, in kind of how that was economically working Anyway.
Like that was just a model that we got to see to go, man, that is intentional. It is humble. It is thoughtful. It is. I mean, that, that's probably how I would describe Mr. Hunt in any scenario is thoughtful and intentional. Um, and so I think that's [00:37:00] probably where that, that was the first lesson that we had.
And of course they were, you know, we, our, our business was a first generation business while they had already gone through a second gen transit. , and then it was going to a third generation while my brother and I were involved. So, so that was an interesting learning experience to kind of watch that along the way.
So I think, again, I mean, relationships are critical to it. Um, but it, it was really about my dad saying, Hey, I, I, I think we need to transition the business sooner than I might have otherwise expected. , um, because I think you guys are ready and I think we mo need to, need to move the business. I think, I think it has to.
I think it has to evolve. And so that was partly his vision in recognizing that. And so I do think there's one part of it that probably helps. Um, is it, it, my brother and i, I, we don't necessarily think about who is contributing what. because it, it [00:38:00] changes. He, he, he has a massive influence on, on a certain project that is enormously important to our balance sheet.
And then another time I might have a little impact or here on another part of it. And so there's, it's not always like, okay, you're doing it, I'm doing it. The CFO's doing it, uh, or whatever. It, it really is a balance. And I think what helps is it's, it's, it's not a score keeping type of game where it's saying, okay, well hey, I did this so I oughta get more.
we've kinda looked past that. Again, it, our, our mission, our is, is not to create an enduring company that makes us very bo, both very wealthy. Our, our mission is to create an enduring company with great people. And so that ought to inform how we act around each other, how we, how we resolve conflict. And so there's usually not a mu mu not much.
There's never conflict about money stuff between us. That's not cuz we've always just resolved and say. We're just gonna be above board fair and never have to think about it again. We don't, there's [00:39:00] no renegotiating, there's no stop. None of that stuff. Um, uh, so, so I think that's the, that's probably one of the, it's probably one of the biggest things that, that I think has helped avoid a lot of that where conflict normally arises.
But look, there's conflict a lot about should we go this way? Should we go that. , you know, should we do this deal? Should we not do that deal? Hey, we're way too invested here. We, we need to stop there. Hey, the capital raise has taken a lot longer than it should have. Why? You know, there's always conflict around that, which is just, but, but it, but that's just part of, you know, the iron sharpening iron, I think.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And again, when conflict happens, I love how you say it's really you fall back to your values because then that helps make the decision
Dupree Scovell: Yeah.
Dan Ryan: almost in a
Dupree Scovell: Yeah. You've already made that decision.
Dan Ryan: yeah. Um, Okay. So now going into just bringing it back into hospitality in particular, you know, we've been through a crazy couple years, [00:40:00] but
Dupree Scovell: Yeah.
Dan Ryan: forward, obviously you mentioned the Driscoll, but just in general, looking forward, what's exciting you and Woodbine the most about the.
Dupree Scovell: You know, there, there's some really interesting things I think on the horizon in hospitality. I, I, , I, I'm one who doesn't necessarily, and I, this podcast could prove me very wrong, you know, when somebody listens to it in five years. But, um, if they do , uh, but, but they listen to you. I dunno. , it's more of an indictment on me.
Dan Ryan: I'll set a calendar reminder
Dupree Scovell: sorry. Yeah, that's right.
Dan Ryan: we'll do a relaunch.
Dupree Scovell: right. But I think, I think so again, somebody may look back and, and prove me wrong there, but I just don't see this mountain of distress happening. , uh, I think some folks would answer this question, go, Hey, we're entering into a unique period where there's gonna be a lot of distress and a lot of foreclosures and a lot of opportunities to acquire assets.
Um, I, I would love for that to be true. Well, in some ways, but, but I don't necessarily think that's gonna be the case. [00:41:00] Um, so I think for this is where a methodical approach, an intentional approach of growth becomes more and more important. So when I think about what's happening over the course of the next several years, there are, there are two major brand launch.
That both Hyatt and Hilton are working on that are in that kind of long stay category. So extended economy, extended stay there. There's many terms for it, but um, but that's, that's the type of hotel that is, you know, between two weeks and kind of 30 days, that type of stay. Those are gonna be really interesting to see how those launch.
I mean, that's like extended Stay America and some of the other Amer, I think Amer Suites is another one that's gonna be interesting to see how that changes our industry. I would. that those two are gonna be the fastest launch that our industry has ever seen. Just, just like one man's opinion. I think it's gonna be, I think it'll be Courtyard.
I think it'll be residents, and I think it, I think it'll be literally the fastest growth that, that any brand has, um, that, that our industry has seen. So I could be wrong about that, but that's something. But I [00:42:00] think for us it's really about, um, this is a, I think there's a unique point in time. My brother and I have been in the business, uh, him 24 years.
Me about 21 years, and, and I think this is where your relationships really do start to matter a lot more in kind of in this window. And so I, I think we will have the ability to live out what we have said many years that, that, hey, we're gonna invest in those over time and those will pay dividends at the right time.
And so that's where I think some of those opportu. Have already started to materialize in that, in that fashion. But so I think it's, and that's gonna look like, it's gonna look like off market stuff. It's gonna look like nuanced stuff that's gonna look like buying certain partners out. That's gonna be some more creative type things and structures like that.
But, but, uh, for us, I think we will maintain growth in hospitality. That's kind of what we know, but it's also because we've gone through a [00:43:00] pandemic. and, and, and existential existential crisis times, you know, 10, as we've seen over the last several years, it has forced us to say, look, we, we gotta, we can't be a one trick pony.
We're gonna have to get into industrial, we've gotta get into multifamily, we've gotta get into office. And so we've, we've started to go into those spaces and we've partnered with people that we think can help us grow there. And so that's where we've tried to find. A, a, a formula for success, which I think will allow us to diversify this company over over many years.
So that's probably where we start to look at things that get us excited are going well, as much as we love the heart and soul of our company, and, and we'll focus on hospitality for probably forever. We do want to grow that and then allow those core tenants that we've learned in hospitality to inform how we do deals in the other.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, I love the model of, you know, within real estate industrial, Hospitality office, multi-family, because even though you're riding that [00:44:00] kind of credit cycle wave that we're all kind of subject to, um, it does create some non-correlation as well,
Dupree Scovell: Mm-hmm.
Dan Ryan: which is really, really good. Um, you went to Texas Tech, right?
Dupree Scovell: I did Wreck 'em.
Dan Ryan: Reham. Reham, yeah. There you go. Not Giam, but Reham.
Dupree Scovell: That's right,
Dan Ryan: If you, dupree I'm talking to right now were to magically appear in front of your 18 year old self, Advi what? What advice would you have for yourself?
Dupree Scovell: Oh my gosh. That hasn't, that has, yeah, I, I know exactly what that'd be. Um, but that's, Probably a little deeper than you want to go. I, I think, um, what, what's a, what's a, what's a concise way to describe that? Um, I think there, there's some interesting ways. Uh, all right. So I'm, I'm gonna go a little deeper here.
So
Dan Ryan: [00:45:00] please,
Dupree Scovell: you, if you gotta edit it, do what you gotta do. Um, so I, so we'll go all the way back in high school. I. , I got, um, I broke my collarbone. I was, this was my senior year and I was playing football. And I thought, you know, that was once, that, once I broke my collarbone, I was done for the season. My entire identity was wrapped up in who I, I was as, as a, as an athlete and who I thought I was gonna be.
So I don't know if I'd would've gotten any scholarships, but all of them were gone now for sure. Um, and. , Texas Tech. I was a known quantity and so I went there, um, because my two older brothers were there and my dad had gone there. All of them had played football. And so if nothing else, I thought, well, they, they might think I come from good stock and so , maybe they'll gimme a shot.
And they did. I don't know if I should have been on the team or not, but they let me get on the team and, um, and I learned a lot because I was a. And when you're walk on you, you're a second class citizen, you have, you have almost no [00:46:00] rights. You right, you don't eat with a team. You, I mean, it, it is an, it's an interesting, it's just, just an interesting experience.
Like you almost always have two strikes and so you learn to kinda operate with a chip on your shoulder that it's like, I'm gonna prove myself no matter what. And so that became such a drive of mine. But I also had a very good perspective. I was like, Hey, I'm not that. , I'm, I'm never gonna be an All American.
Uh, but I don't wanna be a Rudy story either. And so I kind of worked myself on the field, but I knew that being on the field was not necessarily where I was gonna make my mark in the world. And so I started getting really involved with things outside of that. Um, with, with. , different organizations and things that were impactful to the campus and, um, helped start what was the, what was the largest, I think the second largest student booster club in the country at the time, and was involved with a lot of leadership positions and doing different things like that.
And so I, that, that was really interesting and I think and fulfilling to me. And I was like, [00:47:00] okay, this is probably where I'm gonna make my mark. Um, at the same time I knew that I wanted to go to, and I knew that if I, if I was gonna go to grad school, a degree from tech would be challenging if you just had one.
And so, because I was there in the summers for football, I was like, Hey, I'm just gonna take, I'm gonna take every class I can take and I'm never gonna take an elective. I'll always make sure that whatever class I take qualifies for another major. So I graduate with as many degrees as I can possibly get.
Uh, because I figured, well, if I have two or three or four from tech, it would then match one kid from. then that might give me an edge when I want to get into, you know, a a, a a grad school that was, you know, top tier. So I think there's probably two things I would say, I would probably tell myself. Number one, you're not defined by any of those things.
You're not defined by on the field, you're not defined by off the field, you're not defined by degrees, you're not defined by where you want to go to grad. [00:48:00] None of those things define who you are. Um, what what defined me was, was a personal relationship with the Lord. And that's, and I, I didn't necessarily understand that at the time.
It took a long time for me to kind of get there, but every other poor decision I made, every other poor decision I made, whether it was relationships or whether it was, you know, little you name it, stemmed from thinking about that my identity was, was. something else was, was something that I had to do to achieve.
And that at the end of the day, that that leads to a pry that leads to a consumption material. That, or, or, or, you know, desire that leads to a, a matter of thinking that that. I've seen, at least in my own life, it doesn't end well. And so maybe much more than you bargained for , but that, that's how I would kind of look at it and go, man, I had, I had a lot to learn with that [00:49:00] scenario.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And it's amazing how the trappings of life or the rat race, or, I loved how you said, like being defined by all these external, um, factors, degrees. Car, whatever. It could
Dupree Scovell: Yeah, all the stuff.
Dan Ryan: it has to come from within a higher power, like when it's a, again, it's values. Wherever you find those values and your spirituality, if you're really in that, within that envelope, you're just kind of operate differently, right?
You make different decisions and it's a, it's a, it's a good place to be and gosh, I wish we could all know that at.
Dupree Scovell: Yeah. It one of those things too where I, I, I, I hear people say there's, I have no regrets. And, and I probably understand what they mean. There's probably some qualifications there, but man, I have a lot of regrets. L lot of regrets where I'm like, man, I, there was a lot of wasted time, wasted energy, wasted motion, [00:50:00] things that I wish I'd done differently.
So, but, uh, but look, that's what, that's where grace is. So , I'm grateful to that, you know. Yeah, I'm, I'm grateful that there is forgiveness and we can, we can move now and learn from those things and, okay, what, what can we do different now and hopefully encourage a lot of 18 year olds , and they go, Hey, don't do what I did.
There's another way to do it.
Dan Ryan: And, and just curiosity, how many degrees did you get?
Dupree Scovell: I got, I got four degrees, which, which, uh, Yeah. Which I don't know. I, like I said, that doesn't mean a whole lot, but that was, that was something that I think did give me a bit of an edge when I, when I was applying to the grad schools I was applying to,
Dan Ryan: Uh, what position did you play in high school and then in college after you walked
Dupree Scovell: so, so I was a quarterback in high school. I was a receiver in college. But really, the way that I got on the field, I mean, I was a backup to West Wilker, who's one of my best friends, . Um, but so I, I wasn't gonna get on the field. But, so the way that I got on the field was I was a special teams guy. Now I will tell you this, Mike Leach was my, was my [00:51:00] coach and he's, um, was a, was obviously a, a, you know, a legend in his, in his own right.
Um, but I, I honestly think that the reason Mike Leach put me on the field is because then he could have an academic All American. So I think he's like, Hey, let's just hide Scoville somewhere where he can't hurt us too much. . So I would, so I'd, I would start on special teams and do all this other. But, but at least then we have that we can check that academic All-American box, and then we're recruiting other moms can say, well, he can say to them, Hey, look, look at all the, the look at all these kids we've got on our team that are , that are, you know, academic, all-American.
So I, I think that may have been , that may have been part of it. I, I'm convinced.
Dan Ryan: So Mike Leach is one of the greatest college coaches or coaches the most in the general sense ever. Right? And so much about what we do in relationships and businesses about coaching and bringing out the best of others.
Dupree Scovell: Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And sadly, we lost, I think it was a total freak surprise that he
Dupree Scovell: Yeah.
Dan Ryan: last year.
[00:52:00] Right. Um, if you were to think. The feeling like what made Mike Leach unique and, and like, what, what was your biggest takeaway or learning from him that you've kind of paid forward? Because that's incredible that he, that he was your coach.
Dupree Scovell: Oh, he, he had a couple things he would say to us all the time. There were kind of four main things, but, but, but two of them, he said a lot. Number one, like he had a motto. It was like, get better every day. Yeah, the, the, and I'll, I'll, I'll expound on that. The other one was, don't confuse activity with improvement.
And the, the idea was both kind of harp on the same thing, but the idea is like, look, take advantage of the moment. You have to be able to get better. And I think there's an integrity in practice that, uh, that we oftentimes lose. And I was talking to my son, he's gotta, he's gotta play today that I'm going to, or his first.
which is, he's an Annie Junior and he's war bucks. And we were kind of talking about [00:53:00] this idea that like, how many performances are, there's, there's three, and you practice, I don't know how, I mean, you know, 300 hours to, for that one moment. And I think there, like the, what, what, in our house we kind of define integrity.
We say, look, it's, it's, it's doing the right thing even when no one's looking that, that is what practice is. It's saying, Hey, the cameras aren't on, the crowds aren't there, but are you. Your absolute best. And I think that's one of those things where whether you're a walk-on like I was, or you're a five star athlete, that was the, the, you know, like Welc who, well, by the way, his story's interesting cuz he was a walk-on
He just happened to have a 10 year career in the nfl. But, but either way, on the either ends of that spectrum, the, the, the, the message was the same. It's like, hey, don't come out here and waste time. Come out here and do your absolute best and, and, and give it your absolute all. And I mean, look, I think any athlete resonates with that.
Even if you're going into the workplace, you're like, Hey, I don't [00:54:00] wanna just come spin my wheels when I'm coming to the office. I want to feel like I am hustling, that I'm winning, that I am, that I'm working hard, that I'm contributing to a team. So th those are the things that I think where, where Leach's words are kind of immortal in that way, where it's like, Yeah, sure.
It's, it's a Thursday and it's whatever time it is, three 15. It's like, all right, well, uh, we're getting better every day. Like, let's keep going.
Dan Ryan: I, I think it also goes into like, you know, just in practice of anything, it's not. Like if you're ta if you want to be, become a better free throw shooter. It's not just going and taking 200 shots a day. It's really, just like junk activity. It's
Dupree Scovell: Yeah.
Dan Ryan: it. Making little changes and adjustments and really thinking about it, it at the expense of, you know, missing a lot just so that you're always tweaking and, and, and continual improve.
I mean, I've, I've enjoyed our conversation so much and it's really inspired me in a lot of different ways. Um, thank you. If I've really appreciate it. If people [00:55:00] wanted to learn more about you, um, or Woodbine, like what's the best way for them to do that?
Dupree Scovell: LinkedIn For sure. I'm on it. I'm on it quite a bit. We tell our story there. Um, so yeah, head me up anytime. I, I, I enjoy that, uh, medium for sure.
Dan Ryan: awesome. And you know, thank you so much for your time and also thank you to the listeners. I know I just started checking the charts for the first time ever and a, on the design charts for Apple, we're up at like 30 something in the United States, which is freaking crazy. And obviously like we have great guests like Dupree, but it really comes down to the people who are engaged and listening, and I'm humble. there's that humility one,
Dupree Scovell: Hey, well congratulations. That's a big deal. That's awesome. I'm glad to be on it. I don't know. I. I don't know why I'm there, but I'm glad to be there.
Dan Ryan: it's pretty fucking awesome. And also, um, I just found out I've had one person, uh, who works at Marriott Rado on, and he's from Bulgaria, and I just looked last night and we were number one in Bulgaria. So thank you to Rao's family. If you're listening, I appreciate [00:56:00] you
Dupree Scovell: Well, does Texas count as a country? Well, can you, can you actually track the results there? Maybe we'll get there
Dan Ryan: there's a way to track, and yes, Texas
Dupree Scovell: is its own country. Yes, it does. It.
Dan Ryan: an, it had an embassy in London, so, uh, but seriously to all the listeners and people tuning in, um, thank you. I mean, you're, you're a testament that we're doing something right and, and it's resonating with people. So we appreciate you and we'll catch you next