Defining Hospitality

[00:00:00]
[00:00:24] Dan Ryan: Coben Hello everyone. Today's guests are a father and daughter dynamic duo. He is an architectural and interior design industry leader. She is a recent Cornell hotel school grad. His company's projects have been published in hospitality, design metropolis, interior design, and have been cited in the New York times.
[00:00:45] She was basically born into our industry. He is the author of an architect's cook. A culinary journey through design. They also, co-authored a book called max, the mighty [00:01:00] mushroom he's president and owner at Glennon company Glenn Copen. And she is his daughter starting her career journey. Maya Coben hey, welcome guys.
[00:01:11] Hey Dan. Good morning. So just so everyone knows, this is the first time. And just so you know, this is the first time I've interviewed two people at once, but I do think, um, as hospitality, there's so many stories of families being drawn to this world that we're in and I thought it would be interesting to explore you guys.
[00:01:33] Glen Coben: Well, thank you. First of all, thank you for, for having us on your podcast. Congratulations on. The, uh, the launch of it and, uh, you know, from what I've listened to thus far, it's great. And it's really cool how you've connected. Uh, a lot of people in the industry that are disparate, sort of a very, very different voices yet.
[00:01:58] We're all connected [00:02:00] through that topic of where that notion or that, that idea of hospitality. So thank you for having me on and for having my on as well.
[00:02:10] Dan Ryan: Yeah. Well, I'm so glad to have both of you. So what we'll do, what we normally do is we'll start with the question. How do you define hospitality? And I think what I'll do is I'll ask us Maya, first, Maya, how do you do so your dad doesn't influence you.
[00:02:24] How do you define, how do you define hospitality after, as a result
[00:02:29] Maya Coben: my whole life and you won't let him do
[00:02:31] Glen Coben: it?
[00:02:32] Dan Ryan: Yeah, no. I'm, I'm pulling you out of the batter's box. So I'm
[00:02:35] Glen Coben: asking you to no, no, no helicopter, no helicopter. How do you
[00:02:40] Dan Ryan: define hospitality?
[00:02:42] Maya Coben: Well, Dan, let me know if this flies by you, but I think I studied hospitality for four years and every course I took, I learned something different in a different aspect of it.
[00:02:52] So I was started with a little background in the sense that one of my first classes at Cornell, it was, um, management [00:03:00] communications or the first level of that. And they were giving us career advice. Right. So they were saying, this is how you should start in order to get. The most hospitality experience humanly possible.
[00:03:10] So they said, do operations start an operations because you can't learn how to run a business, how to own a business, anything about hospitality, essentially, without working on the ground, working on the floor and doing the heavy duty lifting. So I did that, but that's another story. Um, but essentially I want to
[00:03:28] Glen Coben: hear that.
[00:03:28] I want you to tell part of that story because it's a great story.
[00:03:35] Maya Coben: I'm defining hospitality. Um, I think it's the interaction of people. So you're giving back, you're creating a community. I think if I had to pick one term to define hospitality, it would be community and a sense of feeling, you know, that guest interaction.
[00:03:53] Dan Ryan: I love that sense of community. Um, and again, all these conversations that I'm having, it all revolves in [00:04:00] this area around that and being open and creating.
[00:04:04] Yeah. Hearing from others, but so now Glenn, you've been doing this a lot longer than Maya. How do you define hospitality from all of your experience?
[00:04:15] Glen Coben: Wow. Um, I mean, hospitality, I guess it was Danny Meyer who said that hospitality is a team sport. Um, and I guess that's, that's a pretty cool way of putting it, but I, I think that as an architect and a designer, you know, we need to be able to listen.
[00:04:37] Um, we need to be somewhat willing to be, we need to be, um, malleable in terms of that dialogue with our clients. I always say that, you know, how we service the hospitality industry is through, uh, empathy and integrity and listening to our clients and understanding what their needs are. Um, and I [00:05:00] think that, you know, we're delivering a product.
[00:05:03] Where we're having people feel a certain way. And if you think about hospitality outside of so that's design, but the cool thing about hospitality really for me is that it crosses so many different sectors. And, you know, even listening to some of your podcasts, you know, hospitality comes in so many different shapes in so many different sizes.
[00:05:26] And that, that the commonality, as Maya said, is a sense of community, but it's also a sense of, um, giving, uh, through empathy, through integrity, through the actions that we, um, that we provide or the actions that we make, uh, in given situations.
[00:05:47] Dan Ryan: I love that. And you know, Maya, as far as that idea of community, Having that empathy and really listening from your experience and operations, what, as you were going through college [00:06:00] and what you're doing now, how did you touch upon that?
[00:06:02] What did you learn?
[00:06:04] Maya Coben: Well, I actually worked, um, for Danny Meyer in union square hospitality group. And so obviously they ingrained those, the empathy, the sympathy, just that overall sense of community. And while I was a hostess, there's just, they go that extra mile, you know, and that's what makes them special.
[00:06:22] And I think that's kind of what I've taken away with, what my dad always says. When you're learning, when you're working, you can learn what you want to be or who you want to be. You don't like what you don't want to be like. And I remember being hostess and wanting to display those feelings of empathy and wanting to connect with the guests more than just your average hostess.
[00:06:44] Maybe that was partially my dad's influence. Maybe that's just in my DNA. I'm not sure. Um, but that kind of.
[00:06:55] Dan Ryan: I love that as well. And I keep hearing Danny Meyer, so I'm going to [00:07:00] connect Danny Meyer to all three of us. Okay. So Danny Meyer, um, if I can think of an ultimate guest on this, because I really love all the work that he's done on that idea of hospitality quotient and everything he's built at union square hospitality.
[00:07:15] He was actually the last person that I talked to at an industry event, HD summit, um, that Stacy Shoemaker puts on every year in Mexico, just before the pandemic and in our whole industry basically shut down. And I asked her I was going
[00:07:29] Glen Coben: to go, I was going to go to that and decided there's a lot of crazy stuff going on in the world right now.
[00:07:36] Maybe it would be a good idea to go.
[00:07:38] Dan Ryan: Well, I, uh, after I went up to him and I had his book and he signed it and I talked to him and just told him like, what a fan boy I am. And, uh, Actually when I started writing and creating contents, I guess in like 2016 or 17, there was a really cool meeting I had with your dad.
[00:07:56] Um, we just he's like, Hey, come on. I want you to check out this place. And I [00:08:00] can't remember the name of it, but it was the new Danny Meyer bakery. Right? Danny provisions, was it, there was a daily provision. Yeah. My dad actually had recently passed away and I was writing so much like impactful memoir type things, and I just opened up and I shared it with your dad, Maya.
[00:08:18] And then, you know, that's when he told me that he had written this architect's cookbook. And so again, like Danny Meyer here is a theme and really he created that we were sitting in one of his restaurants, um, and it somehow had an effect on me to open up to your dad on all on that front.
[00:08:38] Glen Coben: It's easy
[00:08:38] Maya Coben: to do that.
[00:08:41] Glen Coben: Yeah, because I don't tell you what to do. I just listen.
[00:08:45] Dan Ryan: Okay, so you're designing environments Glenn. Um, and if you think about going into your book, the architects cookbook that you wrote and where you're going on, this culinary journey of, okay, here's the built space, [00:09:00] uh, and here's some recipes that kind of timey him through that.
[00:09:03] And it was also, I think that was your first book. Oh, no. Maximum the magic mushroom. Yeah. Max with Maya max. Yup. Yup. Yup. But like all of that and all of your experience of just creating these environments, experiencing hospitality, like what was the best delivery of hospitality that you can remember in your career?
[00:09:23] Glen Coben: Is it deliberate delivery of hospitality? Yeah. Um, well, I can tell. I can't tell you about the worst delivery of hospitality, because it's, I guess there's a pending lawsuit about it. Um, so maybe that's for a future episode, um, but best delivery of hospitality,
[00:09:43] Boy. Um, that's a really good question. And I'm thinking back pretty quickly, because you kind of caught me completely off guard with that, which is it's very cool because this is [00:10:00] like right at the moment.
[00:10:01] Um, I mean, I've been at, I've been the fortunate recipient of incredible levels of hospitality and you know, you, when you go to a restaurant and, and I'll say this, uh, Some of these chefs that have created incredible menus. I've been the, as I said, the fortunate recipient of some testing menus, so great Koons comes for, it comes to mind, for instance, when he had opened cafe gray at, uh, the time Warner center.
[00:10:32] And I was there at his invitation because he wanted to tweak a few things in the design. Um, and I was there with his kitchen designer, a guy named Jimmy Hughie. Who's a dear friend of mine, also a Cornell grad, um, and he designs kitchens and we sat down at the chef's table and grey just cooked for us.
[00:10:52] And I think we were there for three or four hours and it was a one-on-one experience. You [00:11:00] just don't get in real life. Um, and it was truly behind the scenes and you could see his, his mind working. And I know you asked about hospitality experiences, but it's those kinds of moments that I've had in my life that actually prompted the, the reason why I wrote the book, uh, which was to kind of crack open the creative process.
[00:11:23] Not so much that we do because the creative process that we do we know about it and I know about it and there's no mystery to it. But it's very similar to what a chef does or a restaurant tour does to creating a menu or creating a restaurant. And now, now that I bought a little time, um, I remember a time when my wife and I went to the French laundry and we, we went out there.
[00:11:44] Uh, we went to Napa and Sonoma for our 10th wedding anniversary. I believe. Um, and, uh, and, uh, uh, chef friend of mine, Jonathan Waxman had made the reservation of the French laundry. And, um, [00:12:00] my wife is a little bit of a picky eater, right. Maya, just a little bit. And, you know, we get there and the French laundry, hard restaurant to get into hard reservation to get.
[00:12:10] And we're sitting in the last year. Yes, exactly good point. Um, and, and, um, you know, my, we look at the menu, my wife closes my news. Ah, not for me, let's go. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. I mean, this is like the, this is the cathedral here. So, uh, one of the servers or the hostess came over to us and said, is everything okay?
[00:12:37] Um, and you know, my wife said, well, you know, a little bit of a picky eater and the restaurant, so don't worry about it. We, we embrace that and we just tell us what you. Don't like, don't tell us what you like, tell us what you don't like. And then we'll create a menu around that. And it was this incredible pivot for the kitchen.
[00:12:58] Um, [00:13:00] you know, and, um, subsequent to that, I became friends with one of the chefs who probably was there and I told them the story and he goes, ah, we don't like that kind of thing, but we're forced to do it. Um, but that's the thing it's right. It's that empathy. It's that, it's that pivoting the quick pivot to be able to make the guests feel as if they are the number one.
[00:13:23] And you know, how many times do we go into a restaurant? Um, I hate to hear it today when people are complaining about staff in restaurants, because that's just, you know, it blows my mind that people don't understand what's going on, but prior to the pandemic, you know, you're, you're out to have a good time.
[00:13:41] And if something goes wrong, kind of role. Um, so there, there are way too many examples of bad hospitality then, you know, the expert,
[00:13:52] Dan Ryan: look, I want to get to the bad stuff in a minute because the bad stuff actually oftentimes informs us on a different [00:14:00] journey. Right. It's uh, it's, it's a pain, it's a suffering that says, Ooh, we don't want to go back there again.
[00:14:06] But something that you said really resonated, um, in the, when you were having the, the testing menu up at time Warner center, when you were sitting there and what was his name? Yeah.
[00:14:15] Glen Coben: Uh, great Koontz who sadly, sadly, uh, left us a couple of years. Um, he passed away. Um, I think he was in Hong Kong or Singapore at the time.
[00:14:28] Yeah, he was, uh, he was a brilliant, brilliant chef. Um, I'll be honest. We did not get to get along very well. He was a consulting chef for a hotel we were doing and started Toga Springs and he clicked flatly said he didn't want us to be designing the, the hotel, not let alone the restaurant. He, but we, we, the client said, no, you're both here.
[00:14:54] You're both on our team and you're gonna work together and play in the sandbox together. So, and we did. [00:15:00] Um, okay. So it's that experience? Didn't take away. Didn't take away my admire admiration for this guy, right?
[00:15:07] Dan Ryan: Well, if you go into that, like that sandbox and playfulness, um, I can say that for me, when I'm helping.
[00:15:15] Come up with solutions for a hotel, like for product or whatever. One of my favorite things to do is, and I don't get to do over that often is to watch the creative process to watch you Glenn, or your teams or other clients of mine, where they're like sitting there and feeling and looking at the pallets of fin finishes and textures and textiles, and kind of looking at that rainbow of solutions.
[00:15:40] And there's something about that moment where, where I can see there. So in this zone, in this design development and picking what they want, and that brought me to your, the testing men or the testing many that you were seeing, and it's that like kind of creative iteration that oftentimes we only see the end product and [00:16:00] it's really special to be able to see that a creative process and birthing process, if you will.
[00:16:06] Um, so I just, that really spoke to me. And how do you. Like, what's your favorite part of kicking off a project when it comes to that playfulness in
[00:16:15] Glen Coben: sandbox? Well, it's, it's really the, the, the beginning part of that whole process is understanding the story. What is the story we're going to be telling about this project?
[00:16:28] And I kind of want Maya to tell a little bit of a story of, uh, Gabrielle cried there because Maya would come with me to some construction meetings. She's had a pretty interesting seat for, for, um, my journey. Um, and I know this, Hey buddy, I know this was part of your co one of your college essays, but why don't you tell Dan about that?
[00:16:52] Because that, to me shows that, um, the story is, um, is working in a [00:17:00] sense.
[00:17:02] Maya Coben: Well, I never thought about it like that, but I remember wanting to spend the day with you in the city and yeah. It started with me getting a shake shack at grand central and sitting at one of the bars. Yeah. Danny Miller and facing the wall by myself.
[00:17:16] And I was like, this sucks. I should just, you know, suck it up and be a big girl and walk into the construction meeting because I can totally handle that. Um, so I walk into Gabrielle right there and it is just a blank space. You know, it's a massive, massive restaurant. And I don't even think, was there any structure there yet then?
[00:17:38] I don't think so.
[00:17:39] Glen Coben: I think the roles were the wall. The, you could sense where the edge of the dining room was going to be and where the kitchen was going to be. And just for, for reference sake, this is a two Michelin star restaurant. The chef was again, a Danny Meyer connection with opened the restaurant at the modern museum of [00:18:00] modern art.
[00:18:00] Um, and this, this was, uh, uh, one of the finest. Gentlemen forget about chef finest gentlemen, uh, that I've come in contact with in the 21 years I've been doing, um, full of empathy, full of integrity, and he waited and waited and waited. He wasn't like, Hey, I got tattoos. And I, I worked in a restaurant for a week.
[00:18:23] I'm going to open up my own restaurant. This is a, this is a chef who like went the apprentice apprenticeship route. And he was tapped every single place that he went, like when he cooked at John George at Columbus circle. And when John George had a guy like Gabrielle criteria in the kitchen, genres short, you could pin the date when Gabrielle took over that kitchen is when John George started his, um, quest to open up restaurants around the world because he had a guy in his flagship restaurant who knew what he was doing.
[00:18:57] Um, uh, yes, [00:19:00] an anchor. And, um, so this was Gabrielle's first restaurant. On his own. And it was in the grace building, which is like 50 yard line in New York city. Right on Bryan Park. So, sorry, sorry buddy. I kind of wanted to give a little context.
[00:19:16] Maya Coben: Well, thank you. Um, so I remember sitting in this like openly, I think it was winter, maybe it was freezing in this space, which I feel like is a very important detail.
[00:19:27] Um, and I'm sitting there with my shake shack and I remember sharing my fries with everyone, which I don't like doing because I'm an only child. Um, but I remember hearing my dad tell the story of what he wanted. And I remember him saying, well, what do you want talking to the chef and saying, what's your vision?
[00:19:43] You know, like my dad always says he works. What makes his brand and his company so unique. And I may be butchering this, but he works for, he works for the people instead of for himself, you know? So if he wants to create the image of his client, rather than have a [00:20:00] company image, you know, rather than have a brand.
[00:20:03] Um, and so I said to him, well, your brand is creating those unique and those creative moments in these restaurants that now I'm more in tune to when I go down, not only at restaurants, my father has designed, but at any restaurant, you know, so I got braille right there. I remember going back and it was a story of the store.
[00:20:22] So it was always cool for me to be able to see the construction site and then come back a few months or a year later and have the columns up and you have the art coming in and the wallpaper, and you're having figuring out how to space the tables evenly so that it's not too tight, but not too spaced out and finding that balance.
[00:20:42] So I really got to see the project from start to end and hear the story that the chef wanted to tell here, the story of Alsace and having the light fixtures look like the street lamps. And it was the most unique little touches that my dad was able to add [00:21:00] in order to tell this story, What always makes me upset is that people that don't appreciate hospitality don't under, you know, they don't have an appreciation for those little things.
[00:21:09] Not that it's expected that you would go into a restaurant and say, oh, those poles, they must be from an old barn, stable in Vermont, the columns like that. It's not intuitive, but I've dined with a lot of my friends who just don't have that same sort of appreciation. Not that everyone's supposed to. I think it's very niche.
[00:21:26] Um, but yeah,
[00:21:29] Glen Coben: I think what's interesting. Sorry. What's interesting about what Maya's saying is that I start thinking about her generation and, um, and all of our clients, every single one of our clients, no matter how old they are, they all have, have bought into this concept of Instagrammable moments. Right. And, and, and it's funny because Maya's of that generation where they are.
[00:21:57] You know, looking at Instagram or they're on [00:22:00] Snapchat or, you know, and these are important in a sense, important social, um, platforms for us. And I w I would say it, I think Dan, at one of the hospitality design summits years ago, I think one of the people said the best way to stay relevant is to make sure that your 12 year old child is teaching you how to use these applications, these apps.
[00:22:26] And I took it even further. My wife and I have shared our love of our music. But at the same time, I have to understand what she's listening to, because I'm not just designing it for people who are my age or our age, we're designing it for that next generation. And that's the thing that, that, you know, kinda when everybody was talking about.
[00:22:46] You remember those days when we were talking about how do you design for the millennial that bothered me because the millennial is going to no longer want that cool hip thing. So we have to figure out a way to strike a balance [00:23:00] through our design skills, that there are Instagram moments, there is technology, but there's also, we're designing across a broader spectrum.
[00:23:10] And the quotient of not hospitality, but the demand for quality design has her generation is sort of pushing us just as our generation learned. That design was a really key element. I mean, I remember nobody talked about restaurant design when I went to college. I taught in the hotel school.
[00:23:33] I was a teaching assistant and we taught about how to make a decent hotel room. But not like today. I mean, it's amazing. It's such a great time to be doing this. Well, I also
[00:23:45] Dan Ryan: like to be able to pull experience and, and vision from a 12 year old and what they're using and how their experience is going to be, it promotes that idea of constant evolution [00:24:00] and, and Maya speaking to you where, you know, I heard you say that many of those design details just get lost on many people.
[00:24:08] I agree. However, when it's done right, and done correctly, or it's, it strikes that balance, if you will. Um, I think that there's this additive of, um, and cumulative effect to the overall experience and, you know, in a lot of these conversations, it's all about, okay, the places that we leave or build, or the people that we interact with each one of those is an opportunity.
[00:24:37] To change the trajectory of someone else's life experience. So
[00:24:43] Glen Coben: I totally hear what you're saying,
[00:24:46] Dan Ryan: um, on that front and to be able to see it go from, start to finish and then be there with your friends who might not appreciate it. I can see that conflict within you. Um, one thing I didn't get, as you [00:25:00] said, it was really important, um, that it was cold that we needed to know why it was cold.
[00:25:05] Bring you back around to that one. It's
[00:25:07] Glen Coben: just
[00:25:08] Maya Coben: like setting the scene. You know, like I talked about how I was scared to go in there. I was very shy. I don't know how old I was, but I was very shy and just, I didn't want to speak up in these meetings. I didn't know that I was supposed to be there. You know, it's just this big open, empty cold space.
[00:25:28] And you know, the question is like, what's going to go in there. How, how is it going to look in a few months from now and a few weeks from now? It's I always bring back this concept of, um, a blank canvas. And that was literally what we were standing in. You know, we were standing in, it's like a polar bear in a snow storm right then.
[00:25:45] And it's it just, you know, it's crazy to see how my dad's creative mind works. And it's something that I always have appreciated just standing there in that open cold space, you [00:26:00] know, gives you a different perspective
[00:26:03] Glen Coben: and what was for, for me, what was cool. It was, um, when Maya started to think about, um, combination of thinking about, and kind of exert someone exerting a little pressure to think about the hospitality industry and to start thinking about going to the hotel school.
[00:26:20] Maya spent a couple of weeks at, at the restaurant, um, after it had opened, then she worked in the pastry department. A while, which was crazy, cause she had never cooked or baked anything other than in like an easy bake oven, maybe.
[00:26:39] Dan Ryan: Hey, that would be nice. But my goal, what I wanted to ask you about there is that, especially as you're starting your career journey, like graduating college now, you know, you're working on, on the more financial side of, of hotels that nervousness that you felt about going in there.
[00:26:59] How did that [00:27:00] inform you, starting the job that you're at right now and how did you make yourself feel comfortable and confident going into what you're doing now? Well, I'm still
[00:27:09] Maya Coben: working on that part. But, it was a learning process, you know, I was always, I think I'll also tie it into the only child aspect would, if my friends ever listened to this, they will say that it's all I talk about ever.
[00:27:20] But I think it really does make me who I am in the sense that I was always surrounded by adults. You know, so even though that was walking into Gabriel Kreuther and to this blank canvas was a big challenge for me, it's something that I've been able to put into my personal toolbox, you know, and take it into my internships, take it into my jobs and be able to gain that confidence and just be able to say, okay, like I can speak up for what I'm interested in and what my opinion.
[00:27:48] But it's just about getting into the groove of things and being able to find your place, you know, so that's where I am now.
[00:27:58] Dan Ryan: Okay. And then when you find that [00:28:00] place or space where you get comfortable, we all get uncomfortable, then we get comfortable. Like, what do you like, how do you make yourself feel comfortable when you're feeling that nervousness?
[00:28:10] Like, what do you do?
[00:28:11] Maya Coben: I talked too much. That's what I do. Um, but I bring it back to the hospitality aspect. So even though I am working fine, It's still all related and a lot of people, once again, don't see that, but I think that's kind of a gift of the hotel school. Um, so I'm trying to connect with my coworkers.
[00:28:32] I'm not working with my client with the clients as much, but the people that we're investing with, but I find a way to create that empathetic connection, you know, to make it seem like there's a person behind the numbers or the person behind the PowerPoints. And I think that's where you tie in everything that we're kind of discussing to my life personally.
[00:28:52] Dan Ryan: So it's really listening, hearing what's going on and making those kind of boring numbers [00:29:00] be more human.
[00:29:01] Maya Coben: Yeah. Making them human, making them personable, creating a story, you know, as simple as it sounds, just at least that's how I like to do it. It makes it more exciting for me.
[00:29:11] Dan Ryan: Okay, cool. And, and Glen, so not about you so much, but I heard you say.
[00:29:19] Working for, um, not for you, but for, for the company or for the team, like how, what do you do to make your teams feel comfortable?
[00:29:31] Glen Coben: Well, the, um, what I do with my teams is I treat them. I mean, I know it sounds cliche, but I treat them the way that I want to. And, you know, in my, I alluded to this before, you know, as, as, as we go through different jobs and we go through different, different places.
[00:29:51] And I, I, I wanted to be an architect from, I don't even know from such a young age. Um, probably because I grew up watching the Brady bunch. [00:30:00] Um, and the dad was Mr. Rosen architect for, for my, your generation. You don't know that, but
[00:30:06] Maya Coben: tell the story all the time. So yes, I do
[00:30:09] Dan Ryan: know that, but you only have one kid, you need five more Glenn.
[00:30:13] Glen Coben: I know that would be, um, yeah, I don't know what I would do, but anyway, the, um, the, I had jobs where I was part of a team and I had jobs where, you know, you're, you're treated horribly. I remember I remember a sign in one of the offices that I worked in, uh, It said, uh, it was like by the blueprint machine, those were the days when we actually made blueprints.
[00:30:40] But, uh, it said, uh, doing a good job around here is like peeing in a dark pair of pants. You have a warm feeling, but nobody notices. Um, and then it went on to say, you know, doing a bad job around here is like painting in a white pair of pants. Um, [00:31:00] everybody notices. So, you know, it's, it's a funny thing to say, but.
[00:31:05] Through through the evolution of my firm, the success of the firm has been 100% on the people that have worked for me. And it's a small firm. We've had people who've gone on to do amazing things. Um, and, and I applaud them. I'm a cheerleader. I don't expect that a lot of the designers that come through the office will stay with us for a long period of time.
[00:31:30] I want them to grow. I want them to participate. I want them to have a voice in the office. And that's the unique thing that, uh, that I've been able to provide to designers where we may not be paying the highest. The highest salary is to people, but the end goal, the benefit, I mean, we had a, we had a summer intern this summer who was amazing.
[00:31:53] And, and it was a weird time when we hired her to come on board, you know, fees are [00:32:00] down, PPP, pandemic, all that stuff. And I said, listen, I can't pay you. But what I can give you is going to be much more valuable than what if I paid you a minimum wage. It would be BS, right? But the experience you're going to get your, if you have the skills, we will put you on a team and you will be treated like an employee here, and you will go to meetings.
[00:32:23] You will design stuff. You'll figure stuff out as much as you want to take on. I've had young designers who have run projects. And, um, and that, that is what I love about what I do. On a daily basis. What I really dislike is I know we're on zoom right now, but the collaborate collaborative portion of what we do, we're pretty good at it on zoom and, you know, teams and all these other platforms, but nothing [00:33:00] replaces being in an office together and designing and pulling materials and say, Hey, what do you think of this?
[00:33:06] But, um, historically over the 21 years, there have been incredible people. Who've come through the office who, I hope that if they're asked the question, did you learn anything? Did you grow that? They would say unequivocably that they, they did that. And, um, and that's that, that, that's the true fundamental of what I've been able to do in terms of my practice is we give people opportunities to tell incredible stories with some really great.
[00:33:40] Clients,
[00:33:41] Dan Ryan: I think that's what, one of the things that makes our industry so amazing as far as hospitality, no matter what channel, there's this idea of nurture growth and, um, mutually desired for success for everyone. So in all the people that I've met too, in many of the conversations that I've been having, [00:34:00] you know, when people grow and then they leave and start their own, I've never heard an ill word about it.
[00:34:07] It's always congratulations. I'm so happy for them where that's in our industry. I have friends in other industries where they're like, you know, fuck that person. That's terrible. Like, I hope that they, I hope that they go, they burn, you know, it's like, it is the w it's a stark difference between us, because I, I feel like that there's that whole idea of nurturing and giving without
[00:34:29] Glen Coben: expectation.
[00:34:31] I want to tell a little bit of a story. So, um, I went to the architecture school at Cornell, and this was pre I graduated in 1985 and this was pre computer drafting and, uh, uh, laser cutting laser etching, CNC routers, you know, put in your 3d model and get it printed out as a 3d model on a 3d printer. Um, we would spend night after night after night working on these perfectly [00:35:00] drawn ink drawings on Mylar or on Belgium.
[00:35:03] And we would hang them up bleary-eyed in the morning. Um, and professor and we'd have these perfect white models that we made. And, you know, sometimes there'd be like, what am I going to do? I got blood on it because it was like five in the morning and you're cutting your finger off. Um, and you would never go and get it.
[00:35:22] You know, we were tough there, you know, we would just use scotch tape or masking tape and tape it up and try not to get blood on your drawings or on your model. And, and, uh, You would pin it up the next day and the professors would, um, start to draw on it and they would start to rip open your model. And it took me a long time to understand what they were doing.
[00:35:49] And when it finally connected with me was, um, about a year after I started my firm, um, we had done a restaurant in a ho. We had [00:36:00] designed a hotel in Midtown and we had designed the restaurant and the restaurant had gotten a two star review from William Grimes in the New York times. And this was before internet.
[00:36:12] He would read it on, uh, everybody would wait until it was printed, but I'm, WLR on channel nine in New York. He would have a sheet in front of his face and he would read the review at midnight and everybody would stay up and listen to this thing. And, um, and he wrote an amazing review of this restaurant.
[00:36:31] It was called Moda mod. And, and he mentioned my name in the review. It was like, holy shit. You know, I've made it. And then a week later, Steve cuzo, who is the anonymous at the time, he's no longer anonymous, but he's still the food critic at the New York post he wrote. And I literally think that he did this because he wanted to piss me off.
[00:36:55] Um, he wrote the headline and the New York post review. It said no to [00:37:00] Moda. And the letters were gigantic. It was like 60 point, uh, letters. And I realized at that moment why the professors were ripping apart our models and drawing on our models. We had to have thick skin and we had to learn the hard way because not everybody's going to LA not, everybody's going to be bill Grimes and love your restaurant.
[00:37:21] They're going to take you down. And, um, and I, I pivot to the hotel school where they're teaching. About business, but using hospitality as the common thread, right? Hotel school. Well, I'm not going to run a hotel. Maya's not running a hotel or a restaurant, but hospitality. That's like the glue that connects it all.
[00:37:44] And I said to Dean Walsh one time, cause I got involved with, uh, uh, advisory board. And I said the amazing thing about the hotel school versus the architecture school and the architecture school still does it. Although you can reprint your drawing after a professor draws all over it, um, [00:38:00] hotel school, the architecture school was, we want you to succeed, but we're going to that success is going to be based upon fear and intimidation because there are going to be critics out there.
[00:38:12] The hotels. And I liked my voice. As I say this, they want you to succeed, but through the aspect of hospitality and empathy, and that's the big difference. And that's why I love the hotel school so much. And the graduates that come out, I will note that the, this incredible intern that we had this summer, she is going to get a second degree in interior design her first degree.
[00:38:38] She graduated from the hotel school and, and was just incredible product of the school because she could communicate. And I think about Maya Maya's growth from being a pretty shy, um, only child to somebody hold
[00:38:54] Dan Ryan: on one second. Cause I want to go back to that architecture school experience where, [00:39:00] um, and cause it's an interesting dichotomy between the architecture school and the hospitality.
[00:39:04] Ideals, right. Empathy versus let's get you some fixed skin so you can build it. I did a summer program at the architecture school when I was in high school and I ran hall. Is that the name of the, I remember being up all night, building this cube with like fragmented spaces within it. And it was the first time I'd really learned about I've done art and create, been very creative, but the design process, like having a thesis, picking a word and then like fabricating it.
[00:39:29] And I was up all night, bloody fingers. We reviewed it and it just got torn apart, literally. Cause it was like, oh, and I was mortified, shocked, horrible. But it also fed into my belief that feedback negative positive is great, but negative to me is also like an opportunity to reboot an opportunity to really delight.
[00:39:55] Whatever is next, because it's so rare that we do get that negative [00:40:00] feedback. Everything is like, oh, it's so nice and so great. But that negative feedback is just very directional for anything that I go through. So, you know, going into like delivering hospitality and defining it, oftentimes the worst experiences help us find a different path onto the right road.
[00:40:18] So Maya coming back to you, whether it's a case study or a real life experience, or just, you know, in your nascent career, what is the worst experience of receiving hospitality that you've ever had?
[00:40:38] Glen Coben: Huh?
[00:40:39] Maya Coben: Well, same recent experience as my dad, which we can't disclose.
[00:40:43] Dan Ryan: All right. So different one don't pick that one,
[00:40:47] Maya Coben: but you know, they hit two big hospitality people with bad hospitality. It just never ends well.
[00:40:52] Dan Ryan: Okay, while you're thinking, Glen, how about you as far as like one of those terrible experiences that really informed you in a different [00:41:00] direction, but that peeing in the white pants kind of situation?
[00:41:04] Glen Coben: Oh, well, I mean, I'm not going to relate it to a, um, an experience where I was on the receiving end of, of service because we've all been in that situation.
[00:41:19] And, and I think that those are always the test, right? Uh, how are you going to respond? How are you going to react? Uh, if there's a bug in your food or there's something in your drink or you got the wrong order, you know? And, and I think that the, the, the neat thing about being in the, in the community is, is, uh, is again, having empathy for the people who might've made the mistake or didn't make the mistake and were delivering the mistake.
[00:41:44] Um, I I'll relate it to more of that. My clients. Um, and, and the positives are just before the pandemic, I had made a decision that I wasn't going to take on every single project. I w I was, I, uh, the, the, [00:42:00] the gauge for me and taking on a project was I had to be excited about this project. I no longer needed in my mind to take on projects, just to pay bills.
[00:42:12] Um, I wanted to work with people that respected what we did that had the passion for the project that wanted to participate in the process.
[00:42:21] Dan Ryan: And, uh, one other thing, just to bring it back to Maya there, that taking these passion projects that you're interested in, cause you don't have to pay the bills.
[00:42:29] Having my, I finished college probably had a big role in that too.
[00:42:33] Glen Coben: 100%, 100%. Um, when, when she, we knew she was off the. Um, so, but thank you for pointing that out. Um, but I've had clients in the past that were really horrible human beings. And I remember one time where, uh, we had done a model room for a hotel and it was a client that I really [00:43:00] didn't.
[00:43:00] We had already done a project for, and I did not want to do this next project. And the client's father talked me into doing the project because he said, I really need you. I need someone with your expertise and experience to be able to help guide the process. And when the model room came and, and it was, it w we were treated so horribly by the, the offspring of, of the father, I called him up and I said, I can't continue to work on this project.
[00:43:30] And he said, um, I understand that. And, um, I'll, I'll let you. You know, we'll, we'll, we'll mutually agree to do this and, and his, uh, child, uh, fought me on that and fought, um, and said, no, you know, you're gonna, we're gonna Sue you. This is terrible. And I, um, everything was set up to be, it doesn't matter about the design.
[00:43:59] [00:44:00] It was just about the respect and it was about the delivery. And at a certain point, you just don't want to take that kind of abuse. Um, or I've I've left projects when clients have insulted or have poorly treated my team. Um, and that is not happening now because we have, we're taking on projects. I'm doing a better job of.
[00:44:30] Of evaluating clients when they're interviewing us, I'm doing a better job of interviewing them and finding out, will this work out or will this not work out? So
[00:44:39] Dan Ryan: that super interesting mean how do you, how do you figure out, like, what are your instincts or actual measurables that you are judging them on so that you decide whether it's a good fit or not?
[00:44:52] Glen Coben: Well, there's a very specific question I ask. Um, and that question is who's going to be making the decisions. [00:45:00]
[00:45:01] Dan Ryan: Okay.
[00:45:02] Glen Coben: And what's deeper. What's the best answer you could hear. Well, the best answer is the most honest answer. And that is I'm having my entire family look at this project. Um, Maya is laughing because she's heard some of these stories, but the reality is if, if, if we're making a presentation to a client and that client is going to go home and make the same presentation to the family and get their feedback, I make it very, very simple.
[00:45:35] Let me make that presentation to your family. Let the, if they're going to have a voice, I want them to have a voice, but let them have a voice at the table where they're getting all the information. And the most successful projects are those that are completely honest and that those people are participating in the process. Because there's a, [00:46:00] I.
[00:46:01] Do very thorough presentations. I love to give presentations. I love to tell stories about how we came up with this solution. And there is no, I don't think there's any way that someone who's hearing that for the first time or second time is going to be able to recreate that. And you have to understand the context of design to be able to really be able to tell the story, why is there a, um, and I remember this w go back to governor MacArthur.
[00:46:31] We couldn't figure out there were two things in this restaurant. We couldn't figure out. We couldn't figure out a bar stool and we couldn't figure out a chandelier in the middle of the dining room and the day. And I, I remember I was with a chef and we were dining at a restaurant. It was with drew at guitar drew Newport's restaurant.
[00:46:49] And I did a sketch of a bar. And he kind of comes over and he goes, oh, a bar stool that, uh, has the shape of a heart. That's perfect because that's what, [00:47:00] how they welcome people in Alsace. And then we built the bar stool. Didn't tell anybody about it in the bar, the, the, the, the sommelier, the head, the head, somebody a, um, uh, saw the bar stool coming into the restaurant.
[00:47:14] And she's like giving training and she stops. And she said, I have to stop. I'm getting emotional about this bar stool. This bar stool is the way that chef Crowthers. They basically saying welcome to my restaurant with this bar stool.
[00:47:31] Dan Ryan: I've never heard of anyone getting emotional about a Barstool. So thank
[00:47:35] Glen Coben: you.
[00:47:37] Emotional about Barstool is all the time Barstool is are, are, are cool. Um, but it, it had a heart car carved in the back of the bar. And if you, if you, as you learn about, uh, Strasberg and also. And you, you, you understand that when the shutters are closed, you know, the, the, the people in the home are resting, but when they open the [00:48:00] shutters, oftentimes definitely in Alsace, there's a heart that's either engraved or cut out or painted on the, in the inside of the shutter that is now open facing out, which is the pineapple.
[00:48:13] That is the literal pineapple of Alsace. It is about hospitality. It's about welcome. And, and that simple move. Now we talk about this earlier in the interview. You know, there, there are so many little pieces of the story that have been woven through all of our projects and very few people get that. And look, I wrote the book to be able to tell some of these stories, you know, like the police uniform buttons that we put in Carbone.
[00:48:45] Nope. Talks about the police uniform buttons, but it was our kind of nod to, um, you know, gangsters and cops in Italian-American restaurants. Um, so they [00:49:00] were, uh, brass buttons that we bought on eBay. Uh, there were vintage, uh, police, coat buttons. So, um,
[00:49:10] you
[00:49:10] Dan Ryan: just said on the, I love the story of the open shutters and then there's the heart and that's the pineapple, pineapple being a symbol.
[00:49:17] But there's also this theme that I've been hearing of this open-hearted listening. And when you, when I asked you about the types of clients that you would like to work with or not, and who you want to PR, okay. I want to present to your whole family. Oftentimes I found that when I'm presenting, I'm really good at hearing what is unsaid.
[00:49:38] So when you're presenting, yeah, you're speaking, you're telling them the story, but how are you gauging and reading the room?
[00:49:47] Glen Coben: Yours, you know, it it's, it's a great question, you know, and I remember, you know, like we didn't have, we have flip phones when I first [00:50:00] started and nobody was really obsessed with their phones.
[00:50:02] And look, I've given presentations at HD and it'd be D and Y and the different conferences and you look out at the audience and you kind of pause and nobody nobody's listening. Um, so, um, or very few people are listening, sorry, I, everybody in the world. Um, but it's just through. Intuition. I mean, you do it as well.
[00:50:27] You're, you're, you're not only speaking, but you're listening and you're seeing body language and you're seeing how people, people smiling or people kind of frowning. Um, and I get it when I interview people and, and I I'm brutally honest when they interview people and I'll just stop them in the middle of when they're talking about for 10 minutes, about a specific project, I said, you lost me, you know, and if you're going to interview anybody where else you have to, and I coach them and I try and give them some feedback, like you, you have to pay attention.[00:51:00]
[00:51:00] If you sentence that I'm gone. And I'm not even looking at my phone, which I won't do in an interview, but pay attention, pay attention to the room, pay attention to the people that you're presenting to. And, um, and, and then you get that, that feedback you get that,
[00:51:17] Dan Ryan: uh, you know, I love that now. So that paying attention and being open and like really.
[00:51:22] You tapping into that intuition. Maya, are there any tactical things that you learned in the hotel school, whether working in operations or even just theoretical to become a better listener?
[00:51:37] Maya Coben: I think a lot of it, honestly, hotel school, not so much I can't name, I mean probably, and I just, I could simply not remember.
[00:51:47] So I guess it wasn't empowering enough is how I look at it. Um, I think a lot of it comes back to like how I've grown up and just, you know, learning from my dad and learning from my experiences with [00:52:00] him. I'm a very visual learner. So I learned from experiences I learned from. Sitting in, on a meeting with him and just being like, okay, like that was a little weird, why didn't they say something?
[00:52:11] Or they said too much or things like that. And I think that being a listener and I also applied in my personal life, you know? So it's being there for your friends, being a good listener to them, not being the person. That's always talking about yourself, but being a person that's open. And
[00:52:27] Dan Ryan: I'm really curious about this because where your, where your dad is saying he has intuition, that's been honed and a muscle strengthened over decades, doing what he's doing.
[00:52:35] Like you're just beginning your journey in hospitality. I mean, you've been in it for awhile, but like now nine to like more than nine to five, but every day you're doing it. And your intuition is forming right now. Yes. So have, has there been any advice or correction or feedback that you've gotten that maybe helped you think about it a little bit differently in your
[00:52:59] Glen Coben: career?[00:53:00]
[00:53:01] Maya Coben: It's definitely all about listening. Obviously that's what it comes down to in terms of starting a career. But I think that asking questions is the most important thing. And whenever I ask at the end of an interview, or just any conversation I have with anyone, a mentor, a friend, what advice do you have for me?
[00:53:18] Ask questions, be a sponge. Those are the two main things that I've heard time and time again. How can you learn as much as humanly possible in your career and through each experience that you're a part of. So if that's by asking questions, if that's by listening and doing the research on your own, it just, for me, it personally depends on the scenario.
[00:53:39] So, and I'm a very big reader, in the sense of like reading the room, not as much reading with on paper. Do people want to answer my questions right now? Is this a good opportunity to ask questions? You know, so it's, yes, about listening, but I also think it's about inquiring.
[00:53:58] Dan Ryan: Too, from my [00:54:00] experience. Oh yeah.
[00:54:01] Hold on. I just want to kind of fill in the gaps on here. Cause I had, as I was really, uh, many years ago building a leadership team, I hired a leadership coach and like we're all working there. We were coming up with these issues.
[00:54:12] How do we solve them? And my team would start talking about them and I would finish their sentences for them. And he told me in front of everyone, he's like, I saw him getting antsy and he's like, Dan, you have great people around you. You need to shut the fuck up and let them finish their sentences and listen.
[00:54:29] And it made going to those meetings every month, every quarter, every year, um, so difficult. But also I knew that. Growth comes from being uncomfortable. And I just, it really changed me around. So that was one like good smack in the head that I got to just really listen more. And it's been a, it's been a constant journey since then.
[00:54:50] And Glen, I'm sorry to cut you off. I'll
[00:54:52] Glen Coben: listen to it. No, no. And I love, I love, I love what you just said and I don't Maya, doesn't like telling the story too much, but I'm going to tell, [00:55:00] I'm sorry to curse in front of her. She was like a truck. She's like a truck driver.
[00:55:08] Um, so I remember when Maya was, uh, going through the interview rounds at some of the places. And she said, she called me up one day and she was like, I, I, I didn't get the job. And I'm like, why? And she said, well, I, it was going great. They asked me some questions. I had the answers to the questions and there was one where I just, I couldn't Maya, correct me if I'm wrong.
[00:55:30] Um, there was one question. I just, I, I couldn't answer the question. And so I said, well, what did you say? And she said, You know, look, I could answer this question if you gave me more data and you allow me to ask you a couple of questions in order to get some context to the question. Um, I said you got the job and she's like, why I didn't answer the question?
[00:55:53] And I said, well, some of these questions are designed to find out if you're going to be a wise ass and you think, [00:56:00] you know, the answers to everything and what employers want to do want to know is that you're not afraid to answer, to ask a question in order to answer a different question. And the fact that you're in, uh, uh, of, uh, looking at a job that requires data and you don't have the data in front of you shows you do know how to work in a collaborative environment.
[00:56:28] And that to me was like, whoa, how did, how did you even know to answer that question? But, and she did get the job. Um, and I, and, you know, look, I'm, I'm really, really proud of, of, of my kid. Um, and it's, it's moments like that where you feel like as a parent you've done everything that you possibly can do. Uh, and her mom was, is amazing.
[00:56:54] Not was, is amazing, uh, in terms of counseling and coaching and raising and [00:57:00] rearing. Um, you know, I remember the day when, you know, someone asked Maya, Hey, do you want to, do you want to be an architect? Like your dad? And she said, no, he's never home. Um, I think you did say that. Um, but, um, but it it's, it, you know, that.
[00:57:19] You know, if we're looking, if anybody's listening and it is going to an interview, don't be afraid to say, you don't know the answer to the question, but I need more information. It can't just be like, no, I don't know the answer.
[00:57:31] Dan Ryan: You just have to, I, and I want to bring this into the present because you know, Maya, you know, you went through that interview, you got the job, you're working in the capital markets.
[00:57:42] Right. So if we're in the present right now, what's keeping you up at night.
[00:57:50] Maya Coben: A lot of things, my torn ACL or one of them, but yeah. Um, in terms of greater life today, um, [00:58:00] it's, I I'm always been the kind of person who's ready for the next thing, you know? So when I was in high school, I was ready for college. When I was at college, I was ready to work and now I'm wondering, okay, where am I going to be five years from now?
[00:58:13] I'm going to be doing this. Am I going to be pursuing a different career path? I get very antsy, you know, so that's what keeps me up is not feeling it's not a feeling as much as I just, I always want to know what's next. So I've been trying to kind of not accept that. I can't control that, you know, and to just try and go with the flow more often than not.
[00:58:37] Um,
[00:58:39] Glen Coben: thank you for sharing that
[00:58:40] that's,
[00:58:41] Dan Ryan: that's like really insightful for you to share. And then you also gave some examples of when you felt that way before in the past. So if you, if there were other people who are just starting out in their career, what advice can you give them about not getting that antsy feeling or staying with the [00:59:00] ANSI feeling like, well, what advice can you give to others facing this issue?
[00:59:05] Glen Coben: I think
[00:59:05] Maya Coben: in the past, I've kind of benefited from the ANSI feeling. Um, I think I've always been. Wiser than my age, I guess, not to compliment myself. Um, but I just, I always, I don't know. I think that I've always just had a more holistic outlook on, I was always realistic with my friends even growing up or in college.
[00:59:29] I lived in a house with 18 girls and I was the realistic one. I was the mom of the house. Okay. Maya, what do we do here? And I think what I learned from that experience especially was to live more in the moment, but also. Be a sponge within those 18 bedrooms, that 18 bedroom mansion. Um, I forgot.
[00:59:47] Dan Ryan: I forgot exactly how you put it, but it was like being okay with being in that nervous energy.
[00:59:53] Is that what you said? That's really interesting. You say that too. Cause as I'm doing this, uh, an upcoming guest, I have, [01:00:00] she wrote a book called nervous energy and it's about anxiety. She's a psychiatrist or psycho, she's a psychologist and it's about how do you stay in that nervous energy place and what can you learn from it?
[01:00:11] So thank you for sharing that. That's amazing. And
[01:00:15] Glen Coben: then gladly my, do you think that any of that nervous energy it comes from growing up dancing?
[01:00:21] Maya Coben: Probably. Um, so was always an idea of like perfection with being a ballerina. Um, and that was also me. I don't know, there's something in my DNA where I was always, I wanted to be the best or I wanted to like move up and be with the big girls in my ballet class.
[01:00:39] Glen Coben: Um, Yeah. And now you have a torn
[01:00:42] Dan Ryan: ACL. So ballet has got to wait for a little while.
[01:00:50] Glen Coben: So this golf has to go on the side burner a little bit
[01:00:54] Dan Ryan: now, Glenn, as far as like, as you're thinking and seeing what's going on and you've been through a lot of cycles, [01:01:00] um, what's keeping you up at night these days.
[01:01:03] Glen Coben: Well, I will make a very, uh, strong point. Nothing is keeping me up these days because I'm on medication that makes me tired all day long.
[01:01:12] So, um, for the first time, since the beginning of the pandemic, I don't need anything to, uh, help me fall asleep at night. Um, but hopefully that not hopefully that part ends, but hopefully I don't have to take the medication for much longer, but, um, you know, it's, the pandemic is, uh, Has given me some perspective in terms of how we do our business, how we deliver our projects.
[01:01:47] And I feel like we can go after projects that are not locally based at this point, because we are so good at being remote. I know earlier I said, I don't like being remote [01:02:00] and that's true. I like the collaboration, but, um, I think that, uh, the tools that we have show that we can design a project in Oklahoma, which is what we're doing, or we could go after work overseas.
[01:02:15] And so that's the positive part of it. The, the things that keep me up at night, if I were, uh, if I do wake up at five in the morning, you can always make up at
[01:02:26] Maya Coben: five in the morning. I didn't sleep well tonight.
[01:02:33] Glen Coben: Do you remember what Springsteen said last night is like,
[01:02:38] what Springsteen said is that he's up five times a night. Um, so you know, I'm not up that often, but that's related to him being 71. Can you believe Springsteen 71 years? Yes. I can
[01:02:51] Dan Ryan: make you have more energy than anyone I've ever. It makes it,
[01:02:55] Glen Coben: it makes no
[01:02:55] Dan Ryan: sense. So, um, okay. Going back to the, keeping you up at night [01:03:00] and the pandemic, what's keeping you up, like, how are you, how are you solving?
[01:03:06] How are you
[01:03:07] Glen Coben: okay with that? I have an office that I have an office that I'm paying rent for that people are there one time a week. So I'm paying for an office space that it just seems silly. And it has seemed silly since the beginning of the pandemic. And I would go in and what are the plants like, why do I need to be here, but I want to be there.
[01:03:27] And I, and, and I signed the lease and I'm sticking to it. I w I believe we're going to be back in the office, but, you know, paying that amount of money and rent every single month is, uh, is asinine to me, but we're going to keep doing it. So
[01:03:46] Dan Ryan: wait, going back to the, on that asinine thing and something you said earlier, that really struck me this whole idea of zoom.
[01:03:54] Like we're getting it done. We're collaborating, we're being creative, but I think so much is [01:04:00] lost in that time, waiting by the water cooler in that time, just after work, getting into the office, walking out, having lunch with people. It's, that's where the ideas really get to germinate.
[01:04:12] Glen Coben: Well, I, I was in the office a couple of weeks ago and a couple of people were talking, you know, and they were looking at things and they were looking at each other's computer screens and they were doodling a little bit, or they were pulling up some materials and showing them.
[01:04:24] And I just sat back. I leaned back and I smiled and I didn't say anything. It's just like, that's. I love about what we do. And you cannot do that on zoom. You can't do that through a phone. I will say I've gotten more engaged on projects because I have to focus on a drawing or I have to focus on a submittal.
[01:04:46] And when I'm in the office, I feel like, Hey, I hear what's going on. So it's okay that I don't see necessarily every single thing, but I do have a whole lot more look. Everybody talks about, I [01:05:00] have more time on my hands than I've ever had before, because I'm not commuting or I'm not sitting at my desk. And I, I do believe we've lost certain aspects of what makes us great.
[01:05:12] We've gotten better on some areas that we weren't so good at before, and that's following up on details. So the, the, the recalibration, when we do, when I'm saying, when we go back to the office, because it's not as if we will be back in the office, um, whether it's. Five days a week unlikely, but it could be three days a week.
[01:05:35] It could be a mixture. So I think about that, I think, you know, look, I w I I'm generally super optimistic our industry is so, um, um, uh, we're, we're, we're able to bounce back and we're resilient. Uh, the people in it, the projects in it are, are we're, we're working on incredibly exciting projects right now.
[01:05:59] [01:06:00] We're redoing the Cheekwood in, it's a historic hotel on shelter island. We're doing a hotel, um, a new build in a small town in Hudson called, uh, uh, the town is a Coxsackie, or you might want to pronounce it Coxsackie like the skin thing, but, um, and, and a few restaurants, and we finished a food hall at Columbia university.
[01:06:24] I, it goes back to that desire to work on really great projects with really great human beings. And so what keeps me up is what kept me up in the past. What's next? What's, what's our next traunch of projects
[01:06:40] Dan Ryan: on the flip side of that. What are you most excited about in the future? What's most exciting you coming up
[01:06:47] Glen Coben: well, it's.
[01:06:49] I think that, um, what's exciting is getting back into the city on a regular basis and getting back with my team on a regular basis. Um, and, [01:07:00] and, and executing projects. Look, I don't know, there were so many different discussions and I was on different advisory boards about how we're going to come out of the pandemic.
[01:07:12] How are we going to treat it? How are we going to do this? How are we going to do that? You know, lessons learned, yes, there are certain lessons that are immediate in terms of how we deliver projects better. Um, will the dining population change? We'll we'll, you know, I did another interview preview a couple of days ago where someone said, are we in the cycle of why, why are restaurants being a certain way?
[01:07:36] And I said, well, it's, it's kind of cyclical. If you kind of, if you look at it after nine 11, Restaurants became very casual because people wanted a hug. People needed a hug, we needed to hug people. What is the characteristic that's going to come out of the pandemic? Is it similar to what we were seeing after nine 11?
[01:07:55] Or is it something that we saw similarly as we came out of the [01:08:00] financial crisis? Um, I
[01:08:03] Dan Ryan: don't know, but I just want to hug everyone. I see. That's kind of where it is. Great.
[01:08:07] Glen Coben: I agree. I agree. And, and, and I'm sorry, I missed HD summit this year. I know you were there. Um, and I've spoken to some people that said it was, it was like the old days, right?
[01:08:17] When it was smaller and more intimate. And, and I, and I, I remember meeting you for the first time and playing poker, uh, it may be in beaver Creek and going, oh man, it was like two years after I started my firm and I'm like, shit, this is, this is awesome. Like I'm hanging out with these dudes and we're skiing during the day.
[01:08:36] What could be bad about that? And that first one. It was number two.
[01:08:41] Dan Ryan: It was okay. There we go. 20 years, 19 years.
[01:08:45] Glen Coben: Certainly. So what, what, uh, look, I'm on, uh, Stacy's advisory board for the HD magazine and you know, I miss, I miss the community, like Maya said earlier, you know, hospitality is about community, but we [01:09:00] know our community and you and I both feel, I know we've because we've talked about this.
[01:09:07] We feel the same way about this incredible community. And I'm not, I'm not Keating with anybody. There's so many projects. I I'm a cheerleader for, for people that do what I do and I respect what everybody does. And, um, and it, and, and that's the sense of this community. We're not cutthroat where again, that difference between Cornell architecture school and the hotel school is that we want to see people succeed through hospitality.
[01:09:37] Not through fear and fear and intimidation. Yeah.
[01:09:42] Dan Ryan: I couldn't agree more. And I, I miss that community as well. And just thinking about, you know, winning and community and transitioning to are the jets going to be over 500 this year,
[01:09:54] Glen Coben: they're winning it. They're going to win it up.
[01:09:57] Dan Ryan: You are the eternal optimist Glenn.
[01:09:59] [01:10:00] That is the best thing I've heard in a really long
[01:10:02] Glen Coben: time. Listen, there's no, you know, you're, we're in first place right now. Okay. It's preseason. Yeah. I love look, enjoy it. Let me start it on. Don't get me started on sports because you know, I spent three years at Nike and one of the greatest lessons that I learned when I was at Nike is this sports metaphor.
[01:10:24] And I've used this throughout my career. And this, you didn't set me up on this on purpose, but I'm going to take it and run with it. But the, the, every project we do is like a new. It's zero zero. And we can't just because we won the world series last year. Doesn't mean we're going to win it again this year.
[01:10:44] So every single project is an opportunity to, to, to win, to learn about ourselves, to tell stories, but you know, at the, at the end of the day, we're only as good as what we're doing and what is in front of us, not [01:11:00] just what we did
[01:11:01] Dan Ryan: previously. Well, enjoy that optimism for the jets because they are in first place.
[01:11:06] And I really, I really want you to stay with that, but thank you for sharing that Nike store. I do like that. I look at like every calendar year, um, is a new opportunity. It's, you know, you're starting at zero. Um, I look at every quarter to do new initiatives is a, it's a fresh, fresh slate. Um, I heard someone say, you know, the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago or today.
[01:11:31] Right. It's a fresh start. Um, so
[01:11:35] Glen Coben: you said last night that the future has not been written yet? It hasn't. Yes. I know it's not a Springsteen quote, but, um, maybe it was a Martin Luther king Jr. Quote, I'm not sure who to attribute it to other than the boss. Right?
[01:11:51] Dan Ryan: Well, we can attribute a lot to the boss. He's incredible.
[01:11:54] Um, and also being a fellow Jersey boy, you know, we got, we got them all together. [01:12:00] Um, Hey Glenn, where can people find you?
[01:12:04] Glen Coben: Well, currently I'm downstairs in the den of my home in Westchester. Um, but, uh, oh, Maya's back. Um, uh, Instagram it's, uh, Glen Cobin at Glen Coben and the company one is, uh, at Glen. And com what is it?
[01:12:25] Maya? You're the director of digital media. You
[01:12:28] Maya Coben: made it so poorly. It was like at Glen underscore and underscore.
[01:12:38] Dan Ryan: What about the company website,
[01:12:40] Glen Coben: Glen and company.com all spelled out G L E N. Not like my grandmother gave me two ends my entire life. Uh, God bless her. She made it to 101 and still spelled my name wrong for however many years. I was alive when she was alive. Um, but yeah, Glen and company.com. [01:13:00] Um, you know,
[01:13:03] Dan Ryan: max, how do people buy max and the magic mushroom and the architect's cook.
[01:13:09] Glen Coben: Well, we'll start with the architects cookbook, uh, can be purchased on Amazon. Um, but if someone is looking to interview me to do a restaurant, I usually bring that as a, as a business card. Um, so, well, no, but I also say that I'm not going to sign it unless we work together so valuable. It's more valuable unsigned because you can return it to Amazon,
[01:13:34] Dan Ryan: um, Sanchez or it's like a Mark Sanchez autograph or a boomer Esiason autograph,
[01:13:40] Glen Coben: a boomer, and then a maximum, the, my new mushroom is, uh, has had limited edition printing and you have to be a very good friend who has a baby, and that becomes a baby gift.
[01:13:51] Dan Ryan: Wonderful. Um, Hey Maya and Glen, I just want to say thank you so much for your time. I also want to say [01:14:00] thank you to everyone for listening, and we'll see you next time.
[01:14:04] Glen Coben: Thanks Dan.