Defining Hospitality

Dan Ryan: Today's guest has a passion for providing excellent service. She works side by side with her staff to create a culture of hospitality at all points of the customer's experience starting as a server. In 2003, she's seen the ins and outs and the ups and downs of what it takes to establish memorable experiences.

She is the managing partner at Zingerman's Roadhouse. Ladies and gentlemen, Lisa Schultz. Welcome Lisa.

Lisa Schultz: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dan Ryan: so since doing this podcast, I think. The, the listeners, it keeps growing every week and I get a lot of, a lot of inbound requests to be on the podcast. Some people are fits, some people aren't. You know, we're booked out a lot, but it, it's really nice that people are recognizing it.

And I did get an inbound from Zingerman's and I've never been to Zingerman's. I just want everyone to know. Um, it is in Ann, Ann Arbor in Michigan, and it's kind of a fixture of all the people around there in the University of Michigan. Correct.

Lisa Schultz: Correct.

Dan Ryan: not a fan of University of Michigan or the Wolverines just for the records.

I'm a USC Trojan soon to enter the pack or the Big 10, so I'm excited about that. Um, so we will be playing each other more and I hope to visit.

Lisa Schultz: yes. Please do.

Dan Ryan: but year, I, I guess what I'd say, Lisa, is I don't have many regrets in my life. Um, one of which was I never studied abroad when I was in college. Another one is, You know, being an entrepreneur, I read all these books about scale, scale, scale, grow, grow, grow, um, growth for the sake of growth.

Uh, but a regret of mine is that, I don't know, 15 or 18 years into my entrepreneurial journey, I came across this book called Small Giants by Bo Berlingame, and it's basically the companies that choose to be great instead of big. And I think what really struck me about that is that growth for growth's sake, it can be good, but in, not in all cases and in many of these, in the world of hospitality.

You know, growth for growth sake, you lose a lot of that special sauce. And what was really cool when I got the inbound request from Zingerman's is Zingerman's was actually a case study in that because you guys have a commitment to serving your guests and your local community. So what I would say is, you know, without spoiling all the surprises, um, In your experience at Zimmerman's, how do you define hospitality?

Lisa Schultz: Yeah. So hospitality?

here at Zingerman's and at the Roadhouse. Um, It is all about creating exceptional guest experiences, right? Accommodating, making it unique, making it special. Um, we also pride ourselves on the food end of things. So it's not just about the service, but it's also about the food. Um, high quality ingredients.

Um, we select from various specific, you know, places around the United States and the world. Uh, we focus more so in the United States products at the Roadhouse, though. Um, but yeah, uh, giving as high quality ingredients as we can find, um, traditional recipes from around the United States. And then also matching that with, um, like I said, very accommodating, um, service to our guests and using our three steps to great service, which Ari's also written.

Ari's written many books. One of our co-founders, uh, one of them is the Three Steps to Great Service. So we, we try to live that day in and day out.

Dan Ryan: I would like to get to that and also just so I want all the listeners to know that you've also started, um, this, it's called Zing Train, where you're basically, Taking all the, the lessons learned at Zingerman's and and helping impact so many others. And I think that brings up the idea for me of community, which is so important in hospitality.

And one, I think, if I remember correctly, from small giants, you know, one of the real successes, success drivers of Zingerman's and I guess Zingerman's Roadhouse and all the different Zingerman's offshoots is really having super deep. Authentic roots in the community around which each restaurant or each, each location is located.

So can you talk a little bit about the role, the important role that community plays in defining your hos, what your hospitality model is?

Lisa Schultz: community is?

huge for us and I think it's, um, part of our vision and why we wanted to stay in the Ann Arbor area and not become corporate. Um, You know, and not, not to have the, the cookie cutter kind of corporate approach, which again, isn't bad. Um, it's just not what we're about. Um, we're about, um, serving the local community, um, helping to, you know, donate, um, fundraise for, you know, local nonprofits and, um, schools.

Um, we do a lot with children in our community. Um, but that's, that's super, super important to us.

Dan Ryan: Hmm. And then as you guys have grown, how do you keep that level of hospitality and that, I guess, that core cultural aspects of Zingerman's, uh, front and center, and how do you, how do you make sure that that culture. Trump's almost everything else. So like, obviously putting community team guests, like as far as all the different priorities of how you deliver your hospitality,

how do you, how do you stay true to those core values of hospitality at Singerman?

Lisa Schultz: I think a big piece of what we do well, there's lots of really cool, big, unique things that we do in this organization. Um, but one of them is visioning. Um, I believe we started in 94 or 96 with it, and it's something that all the different businesses do and utilize. Um, we also offer like visioning classes for individuals.

Um, but visioning can be done on a. Individual level and also on a business level. And again, all the different businesses do it. So right now we're working here at the Roadhouse on our 2028 vision when we'll be 25 years old. Um, we'll be 20 years old this year, which we're very excited for September 15th this year.

Um, but it is, it is utilizing the, the practice of visioning. writing out what success looks like in the future, putting it down on paper. so, first collaborating on what are the things that we want to accomplish in the next X amount of time, which happens to be a five year vision for us right now.

but we're working on where we, what we want, where we want to be as a restaurant in 2028, and all the things that go along with that. So, visioning, um, again, Again it helps us to stay true to ourselves and to collaborate and to, you know, figure out what that looks like. Like what, how that looks in the community, how that looks inside our restaurant, how that looks outside our restaurant, how that looks like with relationships with our vendors, how that looks like with our staff experience.

Just every aspect of the organization. And then in this case, the restaurant, what that looks like for us in, in the future. And so this vision being 20.

Dan Ryan: Mm. Another thing I find intriguing, aside from the forward-looking visioning, which I think is really important cuz like, if you're not looking to the future, how do you know What's the first step? Um, but I know in, in your intro I said that you started out as a server in 2003, but not at Zingerman's.

It was somewhere else. Um, but when you came to Zingerman's and you, you. In our initial conversation you were working and you know, you had, not just you, but so many other people have these great ideas and I get the feeling that if there's a really good idea for a new business, there's a lot of opportunity to be given a lot of rope to try this out.

And now you're a managing partner with Zingerman's Roadhouse. Like walk us through the process. Cuz I think it's really, um, incredibly democratic and entrepreneurial that. The leaders of the company will kind of pull these great ideas or these great ideas will bubble up to the surface, and then they're like, okay, let's support you and let's see how we can make this work or not work, but let's give it a try.

Like how, how do you, how does that tie into your visioning and, and what are like the concrete steps that Zingerman's has to support these ideas and the entrepreneurial spirits of the, of the teammates within the organization?

Lisa Schultz: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, mine was a little more unorthodox. Um, a l a lot of The, businesses will have, it starts with the person, right? So somebody has a passion for something, something that they. Have a great idea, something that they want, want to do, and they want to ha to do under the Zingerman's name and umbrella.

Um, they'll present the idea and then if, if it sounds viable and you know someone's serious about it and willing to go through the, the process, which is called the path to partnership, um, then it's something that they can start and. Some, some folks start it and you know, don't complete it. Um, some folks start it and complete it, and that's where we have our, um, nine major businesses right now.

Um, the Roadhouse specifically was founded by, uh, Alex Young, so he was the former managing partner and there was an opportunity he ended up moving on and so there was an opportunity for me to start my path to partnership and then to take over the spot of managing partner at the Roadhouse. so there's lots of things involved with the path to partnership.

Um, we have a lot of internal classes and we call them like passports, so like getting, you know, getting through like our basic orientation passport. Um, so teaching classes. We're also an open book finance company, so doing things like teaching classes, owning lines that, uh, that we report out on for our open book finance, um, meetings, which we call huddles.

Um, but there's kind of a, a long list of things including writing a vision for what. You want the business to be or to look like? Um, so I, even though the Roadhouse wasn't my idea, um, I had worked there since, I still have worked there, uh, from almost the beginning. So we opened in 2003. I came in 2004 and like I said, there was an opportunity to become managing partner.

There was a, a hole, and I started the path and I actually started it just before the pandemic. And so it took me a little while. There's a lot of things going on there and trying to keep the business afloat. But, um, after a couple of years and me completing that, that process on that path, then I finally became managing partner, which wasn't too long ago, about six months ago.

Dan Ryan: that is so hilarious that you're like, yeah, this pandemic threw a couple things that happened.

Lisa Schultz: Oof.

Dan Ryan: Just like

pushing, right, let's move moving forward. It's, it's awesome. Hey, you know, I'm very, I'm very intrigued. So another great book I read. Um, it's called The Great Game of Business by Jack Stack. And he's all about open book finances, uh, within companies where everyone knows a number.

Because another thing is like if you want to change anything, you can't change it unless you measure it, right? So how do you really measure it? And in business there's so many financial metrics. So when it's open book finance or open book accounting with all of your teams, like. Is everyone getting a p and l and a balance sheet and cash flow reports, or do you guys drill down to specific numbers by department?

In each, um, in, in each establishment, but also, you know, through all of the, the larger Zingerman's corporate umbrella. Hello?

Lisa Schultz: so what it looks like on a weekly basis for us is that we, we choose the different metrics that we're sharing with the staff. Um, we happen and we think it's like the most important ones in terms of the day-to-day running up the business, which everybody contributes to, which is why we even are open book.

Uh, management or finance to begin with. So the things that we have chosen are things that we're going to me measure regardless if we're sharing them or not. So we're looking at our total sales, um, you know, broken down by beverage and catering and our dine-in, um, our to-go. We're looking at, um, cover counts, check averages, of course, our labor costs and food costs, right?

Um, and somebody owns each of them, we call them lines on our little digital, digital board that we have. And So um, the person who's the owner of that is reporting out weekly on, um, where those numbers came in. Um, there's also a, a planning number, a forecasting number, and then the actual number, uh, which we talk about at those, those huddles from the, the prior week.

So that's what it looks like on a weekly basis that all of the staff are invited to. Um, of course we have our business manager and accountant that is, um, doing, you know, the balance sheet, um, the p and l and all that stuff, which is available, but it's not so much that we're just sending that out every month, you know, to all of the staff.

If they want to see it, they're welcome to see it. We we're transparent. There's nothing for us to hide. Um, we're just kind of highlighting the things that we want the staff to know and that they affect. Um, and can, um, can contribute to, right. We all, all of us are together in it. So we wanna hear from the staff, here's where we're at, what suggestions do you have to make it better?

Or what have you seen out there that I've not seen kind of a thing. So that's what, that's what it looks like for how we practice open book, um, on a weekly basis. But like I said, if anyone wants to see those other numbers, we're, we're transparent.

Dan Ryan: So I'm also really intrigued cuz you know, this idea of path to partnership has come up quite a few times, and in a way when I hear you talk about the numbers that you share on a weekly, monthly basis, it's almost as if making. Has the potential to make almost everyone in the company feel like they have some skin in the game or, or some sense of ownership, um, from the other companies and other interactions that you've had through Zingerman's, through Zing Train or I don't know how involved you are within that, but when you introduce this concept to other companies, um, What do you think they can learn from it?

What do you think employees, um, and leaders of those companies can learn from introducing a, an idea like this?

Lisa Schultz: Yeah.

Do you mean specifically like the open book

management? I can't imagine running a business a different way. um,

again, it gets all of the, everything out there in the open, like it's info share. It's, here's where we're at, here's why we're where we're at, how can we get to.

Make it better. Um, we have like a, a example that we use is, uh, like the portioning that we were putting, uh, you know, years and years ago on our, um, burgers like the, the, the fry portioning, right? We were given these huge portions of fries and the dishwasher at the time noticed that we were just throwing away tons and tons and tons of fries.

but we wouldn't know that. They might not speak up about something like that, but we talk about those types of things at the meetings, and they were like, This, we're throwing away a ton. I really think we can reduce how much, how many fries we're giving to people. So then we came up with a, let's reduce the portion on the plate, but offer free refills to those that want it, right?

Cuz not everyone's going to want that. So instead of just wasting a whole bunch of fries every day and continuing to do that, it took, you know, somebody that's. in a traditionally lower level or that we wouldn't be asking anything. You know, they might not be paying attention, but because we're open book, they were paying attention.

They chose to communicate that, and they helped the business in a huge way by reducing cost on the fry. Portioning.

Dan Ryan: Wow, that's a great story. And, and again, it's, you know, e everyone has insights if you let them in.

Lisa Schultz: Yeah,

Dan Ryan: I mean?

Lisa Schultz: abs absolutely, absolutely,

Dan Ryan: you know, you speak to all of these restaurants or hotels or kind of anyone in the service industry, um, how hard it is to find employees, right? And hiring and retaining, because of this culture that you guys have. How do you compare to your peers when it comes to like recruiting and bringing new people on, and does this open book methodology help attract and retain people?

Lisa Schultz: Um, I think it doesn't as much as we sometimes want it to, um, but I think it is absolutely a differentiator and I think it does help more with our retention. Um, some folks that aren't familiar with it or don't know that we do it and, you know, they. It doesn't mean it much to them, um, coming in.

So, you know, it doesn't always super attract people out of the gate, but once people, those that want to, um, contribute and be a part of things because we don't make them mandatory. You know, we have 160 staff members. We don't make 160 staff members come to those meetings. They are optional, but we highly encourage everybody to come.

Um, so I think it does absolutely play a factor in helping to retain, uh, Staff, uh, amongst all of, lots of other things with, that's very unique in, within our organization, but it's part of it.

Dan Ryan: Well, yeah. And the, and the team and the people are the most important thing, right? Because if you keep them happy, it just translates and trickles to every part of the business. how could some of these initiatives that make Zingerman unique make the hospitality experience different for guests that would enter your establishment?

So for your customers, How did they notice it? Like what do you hear from them? Or do they not notice? They're just like, oh, this is a great place to eat, or do they notice little things that you get feedback from that you're like, wow, we've really tapped into something very special

Lisa Schultz: Yeah. I remember years and years ago, um, a cust and it's, many people have commented, not just one, but I remember specifically someone, they're like, how is everybody so happy? Like, is it, is this a facade? Like, is everyone just like faking it? Um, and again, we're not perfect and there's always, there's gonna be issues here.

and there, but on the whole, I would say most of us appreciate the work environment.

when we teach our welcome to the Roadhouse class, there's some things that we kind of lay out up front of things that we ask our staff members not to do and to do, which I think helps to, um, contribute to a more positive work environment, which then in general is going to, um, you know, translate to the guest in that.

We try to stay in a good mood and we try to help each other and we try to have good teamwork and we try to have good communication, so that, that definitely, I think in a very good way translates over to to good service to the guests that they do recognize.

Dan Ryan: so building onto this, as far as like the guest experience, can you, is there a specific story or incident that you think would encapsulate I dunno, Zingerman's approach to what hospitality is all about.

Lisa Schultz: so I kind of started talking about it before, but like our. Our third step to great service is, uh, going the extra mile. So that's something that I think sets us apart, um, for most other businesses and restaurants out there. So it's, it's finding something to do for the guest that they don't ask for, um, that just helps to, um, uplift their experience, make it memorable, make it unique.

Make them think, oh yeah, remember when we went there a couple of weeks ago, and. X, Y and Z happened. That was so cool. Like, let's go back. That was, that was cool. So some examples of those types of things. It can be, you know, buying things for the, the table. Of course, if we think that that's necessary or that that would, that's something that's appropriate.

So, you know, maybe we. Send over an order of sweet potato fries, um, some samples of some of our food. Um, but it can also be things like if, uh, folks let us know that it's their anniversary or their birthday or they're celebrating something, we have paper menus that we print daily. So it can be customizing those and putting, you know, happy Birthday Sarah, or, congratulations, you know, Betty, um, you know, we've even.

Gone to the store to buy flowers, um, because it's somebody's, you know, 40th anniversary or something really special for them. So that, we'll, we'll go and, and set up the table ahead of time. And we don't use, we're not fine dining, so we don't have tablecloths generally, but, um, you know, we do have them available.

So putting the tablecloth on a table and just, you know, making it super special for the, for the guests.

Dan Ryan: So it's like really just like this, this value of caring that goes through in, into the third step. And I want to get into the other steps in a second, but um, you know, going back to the excitement of how. We're speaking here now and again, that idea of choosing to be great instead of big.

Right. Are there times through that path to partnership or just when you do those visioning exercises, are there any times where you're like, oh wait, is this about growth or is this about greatness?

do you like, have a litmus test for, for new initiatives so that you can, that you can stay great. And, and really, I'm just intrigued because like, For Bo Burlingame, he, he highlighted a whole bunch of different companies and people, and to find, you guys must, you must really be an outlier.

So like, it? Like, how do you choose to be great instead of big?

Lisa Schultz: Well, I think it's by, um, like I said, like the, talked about the three steps to great service. Um, but I think us choosing to be great helps with the growth, right? So you're kind of like, is it great? Is it growth? Like what, how, how can you grow? There's lots of different ways that we can do that, and, you know, it's not always easy, but, um, trying to find consistency in the experiences for our guests. So making sure that we are providing this, the three subsequent service every time with every table. Um, making sure that we're. Taking care of people with allergies, making sure that we're marking our tables consistently, um, making sure that our specials are, um, you know, new and fresh, while we still have really consistent staples that people come back for again and again.

So to me, and that's the work that I do amongst lots of other things, but on a daily basis, is making sure that we're maintaining and being consistent. With providing those things because we know that while there's lots of different ways to market, word of mouth is gonna be one of the biggest ones. So people can have a great, exceptional, accommodating experience over and over and over again.

We think that they're gonna continue to come back. We hope they do. So that's part of part of our recipe, I guess.

Dan Ryan: And in essence, it's what every company or organization can benefit from. that word of mouth part is really just. Creating raving fans it's the best kind of marketing you could, any company

could achieve,

Lisa Schultz: Yeah,

Dan Ryan: and it's free

and it's

impassioned. if you could just like review what those three steps to greatness are and what does each of them mean to you? I get, we already went over number three, but like,

what are the other ones and what do they mean to you?

Lisa Schultz: Sure. I'll tell you them and they're fairly simple, but you?

know, not everyone gets 'em right. Which is why not all businesses are great. Um, so the first one is just finding out what the guests wants. So it's inquiring, going through menu tours, giving the history of why our food is special.

Um, so finding out exactly what it is. Have they been here before? What kinds of foods do they like? Are they a vegetarian? Are they gluten free? Do they have any allergies? So number one is finding out What, they want. Number two is getting it for the guest accurately, politely, and enthusiastically. So we want to deliver all three every time.

Dan Ryan: What, what are the three, the three subsets? Again, I, I, I

Lisa Schultz: Yep. Yeah. Um, so I remember them by eight ape, but, um, accurately, enthusiastically.

Dan Ryan: Wow. Okay, cool.

Lisa Schultz: Right. So again, simple but not always easy to deliver.

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Lisa Schultz: and then the, the third one, which you know, again, I believe is what kind of sets us apart, because you might get those things in another establishment.

Um, you get what you came for. They actually deliver it with good eye contact and politeness and enthusiasm. But then, you know, it's not super memorable. So then that's where we go into the third step that we already talked about.

Dan Ryan: much in the same way that you have the Zing train. Another kind of hospitality hero of mine is, uh, is Danny Meyer from Union Square Hospitality Group. He did like Shake Shack and everything, and he had. This kind of hierarchy of, um, ID of stakeholders, right? Who, and it, it was really interesting to me because if, if you put them in order of importance, it goes, um, I think it was like employees first.

So the team, if you can take care of them, Everything is good. Then it's the customers, right, of your guests. Then it's the community again, that resonates with what you're, what you guys are saying, where it's like that deep connection to community. Then it's the suppliers, so all of the purveyors of food and you know everything that you're buying from.

You don't have tablecloths, but all those inputs. And the really interesting to me thing to me is the last one is investors. And if you think about a traditional financial model, Investors or shareholders always have to go first, right? There's a fiduciary responsibility to maximize a return on their investment.

However, what I love about this is it, it puts all these other stakeholders first, and if you get all that right, then the investors will benefit. So I don't know if you've heard that before, but like, what does that, how does that make you feel?

Lisa Schultz: Yeah. Um, I actually have been to the, one of the service seminars there. It's been a little while. I think maybe it was 2014, and then I did actually come back and do a presentation on everything that we learned. So, so I am familiar with that. Um, I think, I think it's similar. Uh, we, there's this kind of like a, like a wheel, you know, like that that, that they, um, represent it by,

um, and so, I mean, I think we have a similar concept.

We don't rank it, I guess, kind of in that way, but we do, you know, as much as we put emphasis on great.

service to, in accommodating and, you know, memorable experiences for guests, um, we, we want that for our staff as well. Like I, I, we do think that that's equally important, like you said, taking care of staff.

If your fa your staff feel taken care of, they're probably gonna give better service. If they feel appreciated, um, they're probably gonna pass that on to the guest. If they don't feel appreciated and they don't care, they're probably gonna deliver mediocre service. So, it is, I, I think we talk about it more in terms of, you know, the, the guest and the.

Um, staff experience. Our vendors are extremely important. We wanna have great relationships with them, as well as, as our investors. They're

Dan Ryan: Right. Um, so going back to the idea of like accuracy, politeness, and en and enthusiasm, um, there's this idea also just going back to Danny Meyer, but like this idea of the hospitality quotient as far as like who you're hiring and. Like, obviously you could go through any Meyers-Briggs thing, but there's really like, how do you know if they're gonna be good at giving or, and receiving hospitality?

So when you think about accuracy, politeness, and enthusiasm, how do you recruit and retain teammates who exemplify those three, I guess, values or, or adjectives?

Lisa Schultz: Yeah, I mean, I think it does start like that example with, with the hiring process, right? So if I'm interviewing somebody and asking my, my standard questions, you know, are they exhibiting some of those things? You know, are people, do they have eye contact? Um, are they monotone? Are they, you know, which some, some people are more enthusiastic, um, inherently than others.

Um, so I mean, we definitely look for those qualities and I think it's gonna start with the interview. Um, but because it's also in our. Um, because we have the recipes for it, and it's in a part of our training. So even if somebody's not, doesn't come in, you know, super, we say like, Zingy.

is a funny term that we, we use on internally, but you know, if they're not naturally zingy, um, you know, we, it's, it's part of the training and we can remind them that we do need to.

Right. It's in the second step. We ask that you, um, are, you know, do exhibit enthusiasm as well as the other two. Uh, but, but because we have like a system and training for it, I think that that's helpful and. Having a reference point and not just saying like, you're not doing what we're asking. It's like, no, no, this is what we're asking.

So we wanna make sure that you're, you're, um, delivering on that day in and day out.

Dan Ryan: Cool. Um, zingy. Yeah. It's always that kind of like gray area nebulous thing that, to, to have a descriptor like zingy, you're just like, okay, you either get it or you don't Right

it. It's a good, it's a good, it's a good, uh, litmus test. I've said litmus test three times today. That's crazy. Um, I, I must be needing to go back to a chemistry class or something.

Um, I'm very intrigued by this visioning or the visioning exercise. I think they're really important to do and, and re recast them on an annual basis.

Um, but when you look at your 2028 vision, you know, that's five years out. Um, And you look at all the initiatives or ideas that you have that, and who knows what's gonna happen in five years, but like, if you're not planning for it, it's really hard to set a course for it.

But as you look for, as you look forward to 2028, what's exciting you most about the future?

Lisa Schultz: Um, I.

think, well, because our building is kind of. Not in, you know, it's from 1957 or something. Um, and it's definitely taking quite a bit of upkeep. Um, but doing, you know, using some of our, um, ca you know, doing CapEx projects and, uh, doing some remodeling and uplifting for the dining rooms, um, possibly some, you know, revamp and re restructure of like the way maybe our bar room looks.

Um, and there's just lots of things that are needed, but. Improving the facilities is super exciting. Um, making sure and honestly, it's all, when I look back at the vision that I wrote for my path to partnership, which has a lot of similar things in the 2028 vision, it really, all of it excites me and it really does.

Might not excite other people, but like, I love creating consistency and like I said, delivering. Consistently like is not e I'm sure you know that most people out there do. It's not easy to do different staff training, all kinds of different, a pandemic, all kinds of different variables get in your way.

But tr you know, getting us up here and staying there is like, That's what like I'm passionate about and I'm excited about. Like we have this really good thing going. We've almost been in, um, business for 20 years and I, I just wanna keep, keep like delivering on that level. Um, but there's, yeah, lots of little things.

Like I said, facilities, um, you know, we're always gonna be looking for different food products, new, you know, new recipes, regional recipes. Um, Different things to, um, like I said, retain staff, things that we can add to enhance our staff experience. Those are some of the things that I get excited about.

Dan Ryan: Cool. And then you guys are in and around Ann Arbor. Do you, as far as being great too, is there a, uh, a distance. That you would be willing to go beyond Ann Arbor or is that part of what you, how you guys define your greatness, is that you're, you're just. You're really surrounded by the community and culture of Ann Arbor.

Like, would you ever go to the upper peninsula or I don't know, to Traverse City or somewhere else? Or like where, where is that the hand? Like, I don't know. I never remember which hand it is. But are you

Lisa Schultz: Oh, that's backwards. No.

This way. Yeah.

Dan Ryan: and then, yeah. And then you, no one whenever does the hand. They

Lisa Schultz: Right,

Dan Ryan: forget the upper peninsula.

Lisa Schultz: right, right. There's a whole other part to the state. Yeah. Um, well we do have one of our businesses, which is Cornman Farms in Dexter. So.

that is a town over very close to Ann Arbor, but a town over, um, our creamery years and years and years ago, I believe was in Manchester, which is also a town very close to Ann Arbor, but is now, now inside Ann Arbor.

Um, No, I think the answer is you won't see us in as, as far as our, our values and visions So far where we're at is that you won't see us in Chicago, you won't see us in Traverse City. You won't see us, but sometimes it'll creep up in the surrounding areas, like, if that makes sense,

you know, for us. But, um, but I think, I think we'll probably always be right, right in this region in Michigan.

Dan Ryan: So there's not gonna be a Zingerman's Las Vegas.

Lisa Schultz: Nope, not as far as I can tell.

Dan Ryan: Oh. I mean, that's, it's, it's, it's pretty awesome and admirable to just really think about focusing on greatness and not size. Right. It's like how. How can we just do and be the best that we are without scale? It's almost like, it's almost like you're scaling, um, satisfaction, right? You're, you're, you're scaling those intangibles, um, rather than geography just for the sake of scaling.

Lisa Schultz: Yeah. Yeah, we wanna, we wanna be unique and great and continue to do that right here in Ann Arbor.

Dan Ryan: Awesome. Um, so. You started serving in 2003 or four.

Lisa Schultz: Mm-hmm. Two.

Dan Ryan: So,

Lisa Schultz: Mm-hmm.

Dan Ryan: and then could you imagine being a partner in Zingerman's back then in 2003 or four?

Lisa Schultz: No, I was at a, a different point in my life. You know, I was in my mid twenties and, you know, doing my thing, having fun, learning how to serve. Um, you know, I love multitasking. It's a, um, an industry that fits me personally very well. I like to be on my feet. I like to be active. I like to be social. Um, and I liked multitask. So serving's a good fit was a very good fit.

Dan Ryan: So it's, it's safe to say that you are a, I mean, at, at your core and, uh, the multitasking and, and how it fits you, like that hasn't changed very much. But, but in, you're a totally different person from then to now, right? With a whole different set of responsibilities. Is that safe

Lisa Schultz: Yeah, I.

mean, Yeah.

I mean, sure. I'm definitely different and have grown and, you know, learned a, lot about myself and, and. The direction that I wanted to head in. And, you know, some, some folks like to serve their entire life and there's nothing wrong with that. I love those folks cuz some of them work at the Roadhouse.

They've been there a very long time and I want them to continue to be there.

Dan Ryan: Oh, that's a, that's a good

question. Of all the employees who were servers, like who's the longest. Standing server across all of the Zingerman's businesses. However many. There's 10.

Lisa Schultz: yeah.

Dan Ryan: there?

Lisa Schultz: Uh, nine. we have two full service restaurants, one of which is ours, and then there's the deli. Um, other than that, there's other businesses that are food related, but they're not like a full service dining experience. We have like a bake house and a creamery and a candy and coffee company.

And then zinc train where I'm at right now.

Dan Ryan: And then who would be the longest standing server who's been there the longest?

Lisa Schultz: Um, I think it's gonna be Sharon who's at the Roadhouse, and I think she's been there probably, it's either 14 or 15

years, so,

Dan Ryan: Go Sharon. so Lisa, as you imagine if

you, the Lisa I'm speaking to right now were to appear in front of the Lisa in her twenties who's just starting out on her serving career. What advice do you have for yourself?

Lisa Schultz: I guess looking back at that time where I was at was appropriate for where I was at. once, I wanted to grow and develop myself, Like public speaking is something that I don't love.

So us being open book. Yeah. Here I am. Open book management. Um, the way that we did it, we do it virtually right now because of the pandemic, but it has always been an in-person activity.

So we would get up in front of a room of 10 to 30 people and report on the line. So I, you know, I was hesitant to do that. but I wanted to continue to grow in myself. Um, and so I just kept pushing And pushing, where do you wanna be? If you wanna be over here you gotta do these things.

Um, I took a Dale Carnegie course, which was wonderful. Um, that helped me a lot in being more comfortable getting up in front of folks and, and getting again to where I wanna be. Because if you wanna be over here, what's it gonna take? Well, you gotta do. The next, you know, four things in order to get there.

Well, you better get to work. So once I really found, you know, realized that I wanted, I wanna do that now, then I was, I was ready to do it. So I would say, take, take your time. Figure, figure out what you want and don't hold yourself back. You know, don't hold cuz there's lots of things that we all have Right.

The self-doubt and the, I don't know if I can do that. I'm too comfortable. There's a million excuses we can have for ourselves, but it's just like once you f once you realize I do wanna be over here. Well, like I said, you get to work, you gotta do the next, you know, seven things in order to do that, then

Dan Ryan: I love that. So I think that's really incredible. On the Dale Carnegie course, I've taken one, it was really impactful for me, but whenever I hear that, or I, I share that with someone that I always get like a weird look really.

But then I always am reminded by Warren Buffett. He said the certificate or diploma he's most proud of. That he has on his wall in, where is he? He's in, um, Omaha. I think he's in Omaha. You're the Sage of Omaha is Dale Carnegie, uh, diploma certificate from completing the course because again, it's just, it's, it's that whole idea of positive thinking.

It's getting you all the checklists for overcoming the fear of public speaking, um, and really thinking about who you're speaking to, right? And, and what you're trying to convey. And I just think it's a really awesome, um, course that anyone should really look at taking to improve themselves.

Lisa Schultz: Big time. Yep. full

Dan Ryan: Awesome. Well, um, I'm hoping at some point, not this year, but maybe next year we'll see what the usc, uh, big 10 schedule is looking like. But I really hope to come out to, uh, to Ann Arbor to catch a game and to come to the Roadhouse and check out all the other Zingerman's places because ever since I read this book, it's just like I've just been dying to learn more about all those little businesses that are great.

if people wanted to learn more about you or connect with you, Lisa, or learn more about Zingerman's, what's the best way for

them to get in touch?

Lisa Schultz: So we do have a website for the restaurant, which is simple. It's zingerman's roadhouse.com. Um, and then my personal email address if you would like to get ahold of me is l schultz zingerman's

Dan Ryan: Awesome. Um, well, I just wanna say I know how busy you are, so I'm, I just am so grateful for your time and to let us learn more about the Great Zingerman's. Um, so thank you Lisa.

Lisa Schultz: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.

Dan Ryan: And, um, I don't want to leave this without thanking all of our listeners as well because we keep growing and it's all because of you that we're able to get great guests like Lisa. And I'm just so glad that you guys, um, At Zingerman's reached out because I'm just so intrigued by your business and I think we can all learn from the greatness of zingerman.

So thank you listeners, and if this has changed your idea of hospitality or how to deliver it, um, please pass it along because we're all word of mouth and don't forget to subscribe and like us. Thank you. Bye-bye.