Defining Hospitality

Dan Ryan: Today's guest is an interior designer who draws inspiration from his 25 years of design experience around the globe. As a young designer, his passion for the industry was heightened when he fell in love with the atmosphere of New York City. brought his talents to a wide variety of applications, designing for corporate.

Residential and hospitality environments. And after working with multiple internationally renowned design firms, he's on his entrepreneurial journey as founder and creative director of Pierre and Co-Design Studio. Ladies and gentlemen, Pierre Joceline.

Pierre Josselin: Hi, Dan. Thanks for having

Dan Ryan: How did I do with my French pronunciation on the Joceline?

Pierre Josselin: I recognize my name. You did good.

Dan Ryan: Well, I just always wanna try and keep you happy, right?

Pierre Josselin: it's, it's not easy.

Dan Ryan: Um, So I just wanna share with everyone, I think what I'm most excited about having you here, um, today. Well, there's a lot of different reasons, but here we are in Arizona, um, and you've worked at a lot of firms. You've worked on a ton of projects, great, like world renowned projects, um, with a bunch of different firms.

And recently you've taken the entrepreneurial step. To create your own studio and be an entrepreneur and hang your own shingle on the door, so to speak. Um, and that really excites me, and I think a lot of people listening, um, I think it'll resonate with them is, you know, everyone's always trying to figure out what's next, where they're going.

And this is still like really fresh and new to you. So I think that we can all learn a lot and I don't know, I just love entrepreneurs and I respect you. For doing that, especially growing up in a different country, coming to New York, working around and then navigating all this. It's just, it's mind boggling.

Um, but also very inspirational. Yeah,

Pierre Josselin: Yeah, no, it's been a, it is been a great experience for sure. I'm super grateful for all the firms I worked with and they all worked different ways. They had pros and cons, and most of them were wonderful experiences. It come to a point where the firms was going in a direction and I felt I needed to go in another one, and I looked around and I didn't think there was another places I should go to, and I.

That's when I decided maybe it's time. And I never really dreamed of ring the name on the door, but it was time. It was time. And uh, it took a while to make it happen, but I launched eight months ago, so it's still very new. Uh, but I'm lucky that past clients took a chance on me and gave me a chance. So, um, so we're in business,

Dan Ryan: I love that. And because reputation is everything, right? So, and, and for all those projects, I've worked on a number of them with you, and they're, nothing is ever easy.

And to be able to execute at that high level, the people who you've worked with in the past, remember that. And if you think about in the world of hospitality, um, It's not just you're, you're designing a space. It's a, it's a financial asset, right. If things don't happen as they should.

Pierre Josselin: Yeah.

Dan Ryan: a a tremendous real cost to that.

Pierre Josselin: Yeah, it's, at first we think we just design pretty things and you just need to look school, but there's a financial reality behind it and how your decision impact really the revenue of the room, the success of the hotel, and it's all about money at the end. It's a business, and especially when you start a firm, it's a business.

It's all, it's not all about money. It's a lot of passion and talent behind it, but at the end of the day, there are bills to pay and. Money is at the top of the list.

Dan Ryan: correct, and if we go back to just hearing Tonya Nija speak earlier today, it wasn't so much about, yes, money is there, but if you're really in your purpose and in your passion, Then the money will come.

I've always been a firm believer in that. Um, so I guess before we start talking about like, the decision to hang your own shingle on your door, um, when you think of hospitality, and it could be the projects, it could be the, I'm gonna throw out another French word. It could be the Jo de

Pierre Josselin: Mm-hmm.

Dan Ryan: It could be, I'm a very poor French speaker, so.

Um, but it could be all of these things. And when you think of hospitality and what draws you to it in these great projects and track record and reputation that you've built, um, what do you think of when you think of hospitality?

Pierre Josselin: Uh, it's a shared passion, right? And, um, the. The design world in hospitality give you the opportunity to work on multiple aspect, guest room, public spaces, bar, club, restaurant, bar, the variety of. Spaces. It's really what makes it exciting and the people in this industry are all very passionate. So for sure it's something, uh, people, people driven and experiences and what we can create together.

There's a togetherness about it, which is very attractive to me. And as you said, it's how you build on that and create relationship and get better and better at every time.

Dan Ryan: you've worked on amazing projects all over the world, right? Um, with some really big firms. Yeah. On great teams, yes. Um, one of the things that really resonated with me, um, and it's come up a lot in recent conversations that I've had, um, Is that you didn't want to grow to be so big right away. You really want to take the time.

And I got the feeling like really doing the work almost by yourself, but probably not fully by yourself, but just to really get the execution down. So, Coming from all these larger firms to kind of having that sensibility. And it ties into this book I read called, um, small Giants, the Desire to Be Great Rather Than

Pierre Josselin: Yeah.

Dan Ryan: Right. Um, what have, what have, what have you taken from all those bigger firms and bigger teams as you're on this journey on your own, and what's the desire to keep it small at first?

Pierre Josselin: Uh, well, I was really lucky when I started in the industry. I was more like on a junior level intermediate, and then I really was in the trenches doing the work and growing and learning and covering every step of the project. So you have a big understanding at the end of what it takes to get to the finish line.

So, When you start thinking about it, it's not just the concept. You want to be a designer who understand what it's gonna take to turn that concept into reality. So I think it's essential to be part of it. So I've, I've been lucky to work with great people, but we always kept the team small to really cover all aspects.

It doesn't get diluted into like one person studying another one, taking over another one, and by the end of it, the last one has no idea where it started. So it have this. Full coverage of the project and being fully immersed so you have the answer to all the questions. So to do that, you need to be a small team.

And, um, and I've done it. I've covered all the aspects, so I realized that I could probably cover that on my own. And I'm not on my own fully. I have a, a team of consultants, so I, I delegate the production, which allows me to focus on the design and really manage the project and the outcome of it.

Dan Ryan: when you talk about that idea of concept to reality and you know, having worked on a bunch of different projects with you and there's always challenges that are, that arise and like earlier today, you know, hearing about, you know, We learned the most from the hardest challenges.

Is there, um, a project or, or an experience in your life that was so hard to just get through one day at a time, but you really, when it was all done, you felt so incredibly accomplished? At the end?

Pierre Josselin: Well, I would say I always refer back to that project, which was the Fairmont Flame Towers in Baku. As Aja, if you can imagine, it's a. Three towers. One was the hotel, and I was highly involved in that one. It's for your, of your life. So it's, it's a lot of work, a lot of pain, a lot of growing pain. But eventually one day being able to go to the hotel and stay in the room.

You design and you work from the concept until the, the competition of the project. It's, uh, it's kind of a, a big learning curve and something pretty insane. Like any hotel you stay at you worked on is an amazing feeling, so you forget the pain you had to go through to get there because it's a hard work.

So, uh, a lot of deadlines, a lot of pressure to get there, but once you get there, you kind of forget everything and you're so pleased with the end result and the feedbacks you get from the hotel, the guests. It's pretty amazing.

Dan Ryan: and Baku is just like, I've never been, but I just hear it's like an incredibly. Vibrant and complicated city.

Pierre Josselin: It's, um, it's its own world for sure. Uh, I was there years ago, so I'm sure it's evolved and progressed, but you know, it, um, it was, it was something else. You have to be there to understand what it's about, and that's the beauty of that world of hospitality and doing international projects, really that culture and seeing different way of living and understanding how people go on their day, it's really exciting.

Dan Ryan: But also that idea of hospitality, it transcends all cultures too. Like it might vary a little bit on the, on the margins, but it's really all about making others feel welcome.

Pierre Josselin: Yeah, absolutely.

Dan Ryan: Um, I'm just curious when you're in Baku from on that project in particular, 'cause it is stunning and we'll, if you have photos or something, I'd love to put that up on the YouTube version of this.

Um, 'cause the building, the buildings, those towers are stunning and. The work you did in the hotel is pretty awesome too. Um, when it comes down to construction administration, you get to the ca part of the, of the job in a totally different country, totally different culture. Like how did you navigate that to get it to completion to where it was so sweet at the end?

Pierre Josselin: Actually, it was pretty amazing because, um, we were running behind time and there was no time for. Uh, I did to look at the drawing and the project manager to look at the drawing and then go around the every consultant to look at them so that the client decided to gather us all in Dubai in a room for a couple of days, and it was a long table.

At the beginning of the table was the, the person who did the drawing. Then he would go through in front of me. I would redlining that it would be passed on to the project manager and then to the owner representative. It was like a mini factory in a room. And we would go like through 200 drawings in a day, but in a couple of days, boom, that was covered.

The drawing would go back into production, and that was done. So it was a pretty amazing way to expedite and cover everything.

Dan Ryan: I, I've actually never heard of that

Pierre Josselin: A workshop. Yeah. No, it was pretty,

Dan Ryan: you done that before?

Pierre Josselin: I had never done it before and I've never done it again, but talking about like. Being efficient and getting everybody in the room. And yeah, it was like a mini, a mini factory.

Dan Ryan: How long was that day?

Pierre Josselin: Oh, it was a long day. Like a few, like old day, like nine to nine kind of day, and going through all those drawings on a couple of days. But you know, you walk away, you cover like 500 job drawings would've taken weeks slash months on a typical project, so that was pretty smart.

Dan Ryan: Wow. That's crazy. I've never heard of the, you know, I was talking to someone, I don't remember who it was. They were doing, um, architectural millwork projects and as a designer, They would kind of, they'd have their rendering and their, and their elevation and plan, and then they would submit it to the millworker, which was somewhere in the US and the next morning they would get all those drawings and then they would, so it was like a very incredibly fast turnaround.

But to hear it happen all at one long table, like an assembly line,

Pierre Josselin: Yeah. As, yeah, exactly. And if there was a problem and there was a question, the person making the drawings or you know, all the right people were at the table to address the issue. So by the end of the assembly line, it was sorted.

Dan Ryan: Did it take like a catastrophe or a looming catastrophe to get everyone at that table, or was it always part of the plan?

Pierre Josselin: I, I don't know if it was always part of the plan, but I think it was just the schedule was dragging on and there was need, there was a need to expedite the, the process. So, so we did it.

Dan Ryan: okay, so now I want to go back to something where you said, As you go on this entrepreneurial journey, so you've worked with all of these great clients and then now they want to give you a chance. When you think about that as an, as an entrepreneur and Al and performing and working on these great projects, what is it you think that they see in you or or their experience of you that's like, Yeah.

Um, I, I'll totally give you a chance, like what did they say to you or what are your feelings or, or, and are your feelings and what they say to you aligned or are they different? Are you surprised?

Pierre Josselin: You are surprised because you never take it for granted. And at first I was like, I'm so lucky. But then you look back and you're like, you've been working out for 20 years. It's not luck. You, you committed and you delivered. And you know, like, It's not you deserve of it, but it makes sense, you know, like I am, as I said, I'm the one who has the answer because I was the one in the trenches.

So they, I think they appreciate that and they appreciate their commitment and the fast turnaround and having the answers, and I. Be a key person. Uh, it's not about like, oh, I'll get back to you, and it takes forever. So you understand the process of your answer impact someone else which impacts something else.

So if you take a week to answer something, it's things get delayed. So they, yeah. So they appreciate you being there and committed. They, they see the commitment. And hopefully the talent as well. And, uh, they, they want to keep the relationship going. So it's, today we talked about that it's a relationship driven industry and I keep things that, you know, that to the vendors.

Anybody I work with is, as soon as you know someone you can, you can push and pull more easily than someone you've never seen in your life. So it's essential.

Dan Ryan: actually as you're saying that, I'm thinking 'cause like we've been through some pretty tough times together, but it always gets done and it's almost like because we have that relationship, we can take away all filters and just shorten the

Pierre Josselin: being real about

Dan Ryan: being real and in a way, Hearing you talk about that assembly line of drawings in Dubai for the, for the Baku project.

In a way, building those relationships and being able to speak in an unfiltered manner to someone who you know, like and trust. It's almost like setting up that assembly line, right? Because you don't have to pull any punches. You're not talking around, and you can be kind of uncompromising in your vision because.

The other person on the receiving end must understand what you're saying and sometimes it's hard to be unfiltered with people you don't know.

Pierre Josselin: Yeah. And when once you know them, it's that comfort of being very honest to each other, and it's not about pushing my point of view on someone. It is having that exchange where you're a professional in your field, you can advise me how to make it better. So once you know each other, it's easier to make it better.

Dan Ryan: Yeah. Hmm. Okay. So now. We're talking about this world of hospitality, design, opening hotels all over the world, great projects. Um, have you, and then, but earlier you mentioned having passion and drive is, how long have you known that you want to design and create things?

Pierre Josselin: Oh, pretty much. School, like there was a sense of creativity and

Dan Ryan: from grammar school.

Pierre Josselin: yeah, high school, like developing that. And then, um, after high school, going to design school, but it was more like art school. So you kind of test every area, like fashion, graphic design, um, you know, both art and I did interiors and it felt more like my, my speed.

Um, but it's, it was only when I started working for H B A that I discovered the world of hospitality and like at school. They didn't explain that to you. I didn't know, like there was like such a field of hospitality and then I was at H B A, not really knowing where I was. It was that firm I was advised to,

Dan Ryan: in Atlanta?

Pierre Josselin: in London.

Dan Ryan: Oh, you went to

Pierre Josselin: Yeah, I studied in London. I remember studying there and you know, helping in there. I was junior designer and looking at the project and the talent in the room, it was pretty insane. I'm like, where am I? Should I be like, it was the beginning of the internet as well, so you were not like automatically like checking the website and things like that.

But I started paying attention. I should have paid attention before, but I started paying attention and realizing like, what am I working for? Like, this is pretty insane. Like the project were like a resort in Cyprus, and you're like, what? Um, so and, and I never looked back.

Dan Ryan: And you went from Paris School to London. So

Pierre Josselin: so I went to Paris school.

I studied English in New York for a year, and then not to lose my English, I moved to London. I work for, uh, various firm in London and I landed at H B A and after H B A London, I moved to H B A San Francisco and then H B A Atlanta. So I was there

Dan Ryan: about your San Francisco

Pierre Josselin: Yeah, that was, uh, California boy at some point didn't last very long.

Dan Ryan: Um, Okay, so when you wound up at H B A London and it kind of opened up your eyes to these fabulous projects all over the place, who at that office kind of took you under their wing or took an interest in you? Or, or, or helped push you? Everybody.

Pierre Josselin: everybody. It was the managing director. Alex Kravitz interviewed me and gave me a chance, um, you know, I mean junior, so probably like no money. You can get someone very affordable. Let's hire him. And then, you know, Inga Sili Peter, were the senior people there. And. Extremely talented, like, and fun and fun to be around.

So they teach you like it's hard work, but you're supposed to have fun doing that. And then, um, San Francisco and then the people in Atlanta, so many of them, um, it's everybody I worked with was kind of a mentor. It was never like one person in particular, but it was a, a great team for sure.

Dan Ryan: And when you look at the, all of those mentors that you had at H B A and, and then the other firms that you've worked at, is there a, is there like a, a common thread throughout all of them as far as, Hey, this guy looks driven, he's passionate. Let's kind of challenge him, push him open, open, open his eyes to what we're trying to do, but like, is there something that. could draw a line through all

Pierre Josselin: I think the most successful, um, colleagues you work with are the ones which. Challenge you, but you challenge as well. So it's always that communication and taking the idea to the next level by exchanging. So it's not someone just telling you what to do, it's someone listening. It's all about listening and understanding.

And what if.

Dan Ryan: and that

Pierre Josselin: it to the next step, back and forth, and it's pretty incredible where you start. You think you have an amazing de, an amazing design, and then someone is like, well, what do, what if we go there? And you're like, oh yeah, I didn't think about that. But then what if we go there instead and all of a sudden you build something pretty, pretty strong.

Dan Ryan: um, okay, so back to London. You're working on projects in Cyprus and all over the place. Um, one thing that really resonates with me about you is, You love travel and you've always been traveling. So now you're building these hotels in places that you travel and you're like, I don't know. I get inspiration from the places you all the places you go.

I sound like a Dr. Seuss book right now, but, uh, has that always been as well or did that come about in high school and college? Like when you started opening your mind to design?

Pierre Josselin: No, that, um, I don't know when it started. And I know some people just don't like to travel and I can't imagine. I think I always lived that way. I was, you know, I, I had a very, um, nice upbringing. Um, summertime we would travel with family. Um, I have family in Lebanon, so I would go and see the family in Lebanon.

And then we, we traveled with my, my parents. They, um, I don't know. It's never something to be aware of where we're told we need to travel because it's culture, because you want to see different places. It was just, we're doing it. So I've always done it. And uh, you learn that, you know, there's so many other places outside of where you live.

And learning different culture, meeting different people. It's, it's very enlightening and exciting for me. It's, but it feels very natural, so I'm always like, okay, what's the next destination? Why is something cool? We wanna go something beautiful to see. Um, it's, it's very part of it. It was never something like you are being made aware at a certain point in your life.

Dan Ryan: Hmm. And then of all the travel you've done and all the inspiration and just getting out there and experiencing life, what draws you and keeps you in New York City because you were there, you went away and you've come back and now you're there.

Pierre Josselin: Uh, there's that perception. New York is everywhere, every culture is in New York, and there was always that idea like, if you can make it in New York, you can make it anywhere. And as a foreigner, it, I don't know. It felt that way. It felt like everything was possible. Uh, when I came to be a student, everything was happening in New York City.

It was so exciting to be a spectator of it. Um, I've been to places where you need to know people. You need to know where to go to to experience the excitement. New York City, You can just sit in a corner at a cafe and it's happening. I guess it's very much like Paris on that level where you just sit and you see people happening.

Like, everybody who goes to Paris, why are you not living there? And I could live sitting in a cafe and just looking at the life passing by New York felt that way for me and it was, it was more international. Back in the days, Paris was very French. Friendship French. Um, the New York was more, yeah, different quality and people from different background and ethnicities, so there's always that fascination about it and see what's gonna happen.

That's what excite me, is you don't know what's gonna happen because anything can happen while when, I mean, Paris is pretty amazing city, but being from there, there's not that unknown.

Dan Ryan: yeah, it's familiar.

Pierre Josselin: You feel like I know what's gonna happen, nothing's gonna happen. So, um, so New York has always that, that attraction on me for some

Dan Ryan: mm Okay. So lots of great mentors, incredible projects, working in all these great firms. You're eight months into starting

Pierre Josselin: Yeah. Um,

Dan Ryan: Pierre and Co. What's the biggest surprise?

Pierre Josselin: um, I don't know, surprise. I'm still around after eight months. I, I like to think, I'm not surprised about that, but, um, the being surprised is so much I still need to figure out. I think, um, it's easy to think that I've got this, I trust that I. The design is the easy part. The business side, I was never really afraid of.

As a business manager, you cover the business, the business development, the contract writing people were like, oh, putting a fee together. I'm like, no, I've done that in the past, um, position. So none of these feels frightening. It's, um, it's more the, the accumulation of it all and, um, wearing all the hats and you know that.

But until you do it, You don't really realize it. So I guess I'm still surprised that I'm managing to, to do it. And it's, it feels good. It feels good. So, um, so I know it's the right decision.

Dan Ryan: Yeah. It's like you're the waiter, the chef, and the bottle washer all at

Pierre Josselin: I'm the intern, the junior, the reception is then the librarian all at once.

Dan Ryan: Yeah. But, but it also, that ties back into what you were saying at the beginning, but from concept to reality, you're fully immersed. Like right now, you're fully immersed in the birth of this, um, and it's success, right?

Because you're learning all the intricacies, and then as you scale your team, you'll have that knowledge of, oh, this is what will happen. This is how to do that. This is how to block and

Pierre Josselin: yeah. There was that need, I guess at some point to be in control and no more excuses. Like you want to do it that way, you're doing it that way. If that doesn't work, you pivot.

Dan Ryan: Mm.

Pierre Josselin: And you make it happen for yourself. No more like, oh, they they want to wait. They don't know. They're not sure we'll send over away.

No, you make the call and you go and you're running for it. You're not waiting around anymore, and that's pretty thrilling.

Dan Ryan: Yeah. Especially after coming out eight months, like really taking that step right. As we're kind of at the. Coming in that upswing after covid, and now things are really quite busy and there's just a lot going on. So there's never a good time to start a business. Um, but the best time is

Pierre Josselin: No. Yep.

Dan Ryan: now it's like the, uh, what's, there's that one saying it's, uh, the best, what's the best time to plant a tree?

It's either 20 years ago or now. Right. Um, So as you're eight months in, what are some of the most exciting things you're working on?

Pierre Josselin: I just started working on the Fairmont in Banff, which is a project I was working on before, and, uh, and I keep working on it and it's amazing destination. It's one of the most beautiful hotels, uh, the chance to work on.

Dan Ryan: I think I worked on that many, many years ago. It's vast and never ending.

Pierre Josselin: and, uh, it's a small area. But, uh, but I'm doing it.

Dan Ryan: I hear the word like those fairmont's, you've done so many of them, and it's almost like you have a specialization for them. These big grand hotels from Frontenac to Banff Lake,

Pierre Josselin: Yeah. I,

Dan Ryan: and Bku?

Pierre Josselin: I was lucky to touch a few. I would say Baku was the, the biggest of them all for sure. And we were doing the entire hotel and the flame was just insane. After that. I was lucky to work. Um, For multiple years on the Fairmont in Washington, dc Um, you know, Stephanie at Fairmont has been a big advocate, and that's someone I'm grateful for, for sure.

Um, and it's, well, it's working, you know, it's, uh, it's, again, you find your people, people you, you work well with, and, uh, it's a win-win situation. Like, uh, I'm happy to work on this project. The hotels turn out beautiful, or at least very successful. So, um, so, you know, I'm, I'm happy with, with them, I don't work only with them.

Dan Ryan: no. Right. But, but they are, I know you don't only work with them, but it's also, especially the ones up in Canada that were the old Canadian Pacific hotels. I don't know what it is, but. There's just something so intense and massive and the scale of them and usually the locations were their place.

It's just unbelievable. And I think the, they, they were all created along the old Canadian Pacific Railway. So people would, when they were going transcontinental, they'd come in from England, stay at all these majestic places on their way to the Pacific. Yeah.

Pierre Josselin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, they have incredible stories, incredible architecture, and the setting is just magical. It's, it's a dream for a designer to work on those projects, so I'm super excited.

Dan Ryan: I think of a long railway like that, I'm wondering, the Russians haven't done that, right? There's not, on the trans Siberian eye, on the trans Siberian railroad, there aren't these majestic stops along the way?

Pierre Josselin: No, but that, uh, what is it? The Orient Express, so they have the majestic train instead. They don't have the station, they have the train.

Dan Ryan: And have you ever been on that?

Pierre Josselin: No,

Dan Ryan: Have you ever worked on one of

Pierre Josselin: I never worked on one of those trains. I I would love to.

Dan Ryan: Yeah, those are pretty ama again, 'cause if you think about design and constraints, that's a lot of constraints that you're working on

Pierre Josselin: Yeah, I've done cruise ship, um, but I haven't done trains and planes yet, so hopefully there'll be an opportunity in the future.

Dan Ryan: Um, when you think about the projects that you've worked on from. Concept to completion, and you look at that whole life of a project, is there one part that excites you the most?

Pierre Josselin: Not really. It's, it's all exciting in its own way. Like the, the concept is that creation. So you're really exciting and you draw the pretty things. But as a designer, it's all the process. It's what's gonna make it happen. So they're all super important. That's why, um, I know some designer are prefer to be just concept designers and that's great if that's what.

They like, uh, for me, every step of the way is as exciting because it's the final touches, you know, writing the specs. We know that if you mess up the specs, the product is not gonna look right, it's not gonna fit in the room, and that's gonna be a nightmare. So it's all equally important. So for me, it's all part of it, of part of the process, and everything is exciting.

Dan Ryan: And then as you look out there and you know, you have your clients that you've worked with in the past and then there's a, a bunch of people that have never heard of you or have never experienced you, if you were to like, throw out there a dream project or brand or some kind of aspirational project that you could manifest to work on, what, what would that be and why?

Pierre Josselin: We've been asked this before and I'm always like, oh my God, what do I want? Um, for me it's not so much the project, it's the team around the project. So I worked on amazing properties and the team was challenging and you don't take as much pleasure and it's not as glamorous as one would think. Our work on not so prestigious project.

People are so lovely and so grateful for what you bring to the table that it makes it super special. So for me, it's more the team of people involved than the project itself.

Dan Ryan: And when you describe that team of people involved in the project, like what types of people are they? Is it from ownership to brand? Like who, who are those? Mm-hmm.

Pierre Josselin: Everybody, the all the consultant, the purchasing agent, the vendor, the architect, the lighting designer. It's the people who are super talented in their field, but understand what the other person brings to the table and receptive to that and listen to each other and try to to make each other better.

Sometimes we find ourself, we wonder like we lost track that we're all on the same boat to make that project. Beautiful and successful. It feels that you're fighting each other. So the best project are the one where we're all in sync and, uh, to take it home as easily as possible.

Dan Ryan: And again, you've worked on so many projects, but are there, are there any where that synergy or harmony jumps to the top of your mind that you would like use as it as a example of Oh, that this is when it all comes together?

Pierre Josselin: Well, I, um, I, I'm working with Tishman and um, the first project was successful, so yeah, I am still working with Tishman, so I think it's the personalities which aligns and the respect of each other. Um, I have other people and I'm working with well, Um, MetLife is a big, um, support of us and we're very grateful for it.

So, uh, there's a few, there's a few like that which allows me today to, to do my own things.

Dan Ryan: That's awesome. Um, okay, so this great past experience, eight months into the journey, you're looking forward, what's exciting you most about what's next?

Pierre Josselin: well, it's the unknown of what's next and what's gonna be, and, uh, trusting that some amazing projects are gonna come or some amazing opportunities anyway. And, uh, they're gonna be successful. And, um, long-term relationships, I'm really looking for, uh, partners, uh, long time, long run partners, not just the next fund project and then we move on.

It's really like building. That, uh, network.

Dan Ryan: Right. Um, and as you look to the future on, on this new entrepreneurial journey for you, what's keeping you up at night?

Pierre Josselin: Everything. What doesn't keep me, keep me up at

Dan Ryan: But you do look rested. Yeah, you look good.

Pierre Josselin: It's the Arizona weather. Um, no, it's, it's something, it's uh, it's something, it comes and goes. It's, it's a roller coaster. It's really is like something's gonna happen. It's a high and then something else gonna happen and you're like, oh my God, what am I doing?

Uh, yeah, it's really a rollercoaster.

Dan Ryan: And then on this rollercoaster and just being kept up at night all the time. How do you, what, what do you do to take care of yourself? Like how, like if you're feeling overwhelmed, like how, what's your self care routine? Getting on a plane and traveling

Pierre Josselin: yeah, yeah, yeah. Escaping, uh, the city, um, staying in the city or just being able to just sit on your sofa and do nothing and being okay with that. And today I'm just sitting on my sofa looking through the window and, and not feeling like I always have to do something. Going to massage,

Dan Ryan: Massage is really good.

Pierre Josselin: a month.

You have to have a massage once a month.

Dan Ryan: Yeah. I always find when I'm the most stressed out, um, I just even go to like one of those reflexology places where you got like a foot rub. It makes all the difference in the world. Selfcare, selfcare,

Pierre Josselin: Self care. Um, Yeah, and sleep. Trying to focus more on the sleep. I, I've been trying to, uh, get away from social media a little bit more and make, um, intentional not to look at it and spend less time. Focus on your sleep.

Dan Ryan: Sleep is good.

Pierre Josselin: I heard sleep is good. Did you know that?

Dan Ryan: I, I've heard it, but then I just got this watch. I had an Apple watch before that I would have to charge at night, but I got this like Garmin watch 'cause I've been running a lot and like doing hiking and things. Um, But it, because I, I don't have to charge it at night.

It's tracking my sleep and now I'm trying to collect good nights of sleep. So just measuring it has made a difference for me. But now I'm like getting competitive with myself. It's like, oh shit, it's 10 36. I'm six minutes past bedtime.

Pierre Josselin: The good thing about being on your own schedule, now it doesn't matter what time I go to bed, I know like I can sleep seven hours and if I get up at 10, nobody caress. So, um,

Dan Ryan: You're all the better for it because you're rested and charged

Pierre Josselin: so like focusing on, committing on sleeping seven hours a night. At least try and things like that is, um, what I'm trying anyway, to be continued.

Dan Ryan: To be continued in development.

Pierre Josselin: Yeah, for sure. Um,

Dan Ryan: alright. I want the pier I'm talking to now to magically appear in front of the Pierre. In high school when you first started experiencing design? High school or college? Yeah. I think you said it was high school.

Pierre Josselin: Yeah, we had like, uh, art classes.

Dan Ryan: classes with really cool teachers, right? Yeah.

Okay. So what advice does the PR I'm talking to now have for his younger I

Pierre Josselin: Oh. Um, I don't know if, keep dreaming. I don't know if I was dreaming about it, but

Dan Ryan: you

Pierre Josselin: have no idea what's gonna happen, so trust that. Follow your passion and trust that it's gonna happen if you want to, if you want to make it happen. I've always been someone, I've always been the captain of my ship. I don't know if it's personality or what makes you that, but I've always like go-getter and, um, so it's, uh, trust that what you want will manifest and you can make it happen if you put your heart in it. So,

Dan Ryan: Manifestation.

Pierre Josselin: yeah.

Dan Ryan: awesome. If people wanted to learn more about you or connect with you or learn more about Pierre and Co or how, how do they find you?

Pierre Josselin: Website, you have my website and, uh, there's a email there. And, uh, details or Instagram on the go. Um, But, uh, the email is probably the best way to get in touch with me.

Dan Ryan: Awesome. We'll put that all up there. Um, thank you for your time. I've really been wanting to have this conversation for a really long time, and I'm so glad it finally happened in a really cool place with a cactus behind

Pierre Josselin: Yeah, my, I'm getting warm. I'm baking.

Dan Ryan: And now we have, oh yeah, you're wearing dark and the sun is beaming in and now we have to dress up like cowboys or something.

Pierre Josselin: Tomorrow.

Dan Ryan: Oh, is it tomorrow? I just saw all these people go by in costumes.

Pierre Josselin: Not first.

Dan Ryan: good you're not like, so it's a different party. Okay, good. Um, well thank you wholehearted.

Pierre Josselin: Having me.

Dan Ryan: Yes, that's my pleasure. And I just wanna thank all of our listeners too, um, because we keep growing. So if this change your idea on hospitality or how to create spaces or start a business or just think differently about what you're doing. Please pass it along 'cause it's all happened by word of mouth and we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you.

Thank you, Pierre.

Pierre Josselin: Thanks, Dan.