Defining Hospitality

Dan Ryan: Today's guest leads the charge of finding new ways to build and design sustainably. He's responsible for the first zero emissions and passive house certified hotel in the United States, which is also the first lead platinum hotel in the U S since 2015.

It's called the Hotel Marcel, a tapestry collection by Hilton, and it's located just up the road in New Haven, Connecticut. He believes that ultimately buildings should be designed to serve their users. He's the president at Becker Becker Associates, an integrated architecture and development company based just down the other road in Westport, Connecticut.

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Bruce Becker. Welcome, Bruce. Um, so first I would like to share a little embarrassing story about myself and doing my research with you. So, um, Larry Traxler from Hilton connected us. Um, and he said, Oh, you should meet Bruce. He's a great guy. He's the architect. He did the Hotel Marcel.

I reached out to you. Um, we met, we both met up in New Haven at the Hotel Marcel, which is really awesome. And I know we'll talk a lot about that more. And you gave me this tour and you really lit up on all the systems, processes, um, just all the infrastructure in the hotel that makes it a zero emissions hotel.

The first of its kind, which is crazy if you really think about it on a lot of different levels. Uh, and after the whole thing, you were telling me how much money it saved and it increased the performance because you're not paying all the money to the electric company. It was meaningful savings and value add, especially when you factor in.

And I was like, Oh, so, you know, as the architect, did you also get to invest in the project as friends and family? And you're like, no, I'm the owner, I'm the developer. And I was like, Oh my God, that was just foot in mouth, like poor form on my part. But I just, I, it's a story I will, I think I will tell forever.

So thank you for

Bruce Becker: Well, Dan, well, your excuse, because I actually identify as an architect first, and I only became a developer and an owner just because I aspired to do things I couldn't find clients to let me do for them. So I've, um, I started out probably for the first 20 years of my practice, um, uh, having a conventional home.

Architectural and planning firm working for, uh, non profit clients and, and REITs and, and, uh, you know, but I would have to really market myself. to get the assignments that I wanted well. And there was always someone that had a bigger firm or was more experienced at that. And, And, typically they wouldn't necessarily be interested in the sort of things I wanted to take on.

So rather than, um, uh, developing an approach where... I, I sort of created a practice to try to hone in on clients that had the same values as I had. I figured, why not just skip that process and, and take on the development role. I started doing consulting, um, but I, uh, I did get an MBA when I was in graduate school, so I purposely equipped myself so that I could, uh, over time expand into that.

But I do have, uh, the luxury, I guess, of... Being able to make a few more decisions, not just aesthetic and

design decisions, but,

Dan Ryan: and, and we'll get into those decisions because. That whole project that you've done up there and like, and just how unique it was and what an opportunity. I don't know how many regular developers would have done it or like standard and in order for you to like, you had this really incredible vision and you had to execute it kind of on your own terms.

But I want to get into that. But first, as you know, it is a hotel and it is a. I think a market changing and industry changing hotel for, for our hospitality industry. Um, I need to ask you first, how do you define hospitality?

Bruce Becker: I define it perhaps more broadly than, most people, because we have a, uh, motto for Hotel Marcel which is hospitality for the planet. Uh, the idea being, you can't really have genuine hospitality And, be treating the Atmosphere as an open sewer. you have to have a holistic approach to taking care of people and their things and their environment and their planet.

And, uh, to be really generous with hospitality. We, We, can't be, uh, throwing toxic... emissions into the atmosphere every day as part of our standard practice. So, I'm a firm believer that, particularly now that the technology is available and affordable, and in fact improves the bottom line, um, with all the incentives that are available, and the new technologies that are available, uh, we can provide the best, you know, the best available hospitality, uh, uh, person to person, but also...

Do it in a way that doesn't have any negative byproducts for the environment.

Dan Ryan: the thing that struck me the most as, like, as you were giving me the tour and showing me all the systems that were there from, um, the solar panels to the, the heating, to the lighting, to... Uh, the zero emission kitchen, all those things. And you would light up and I, two things struck me. One was, Oh, wow.

You're like a puzzle master and you want to pull all this stuff together and figure out how to make this work to become a zero emissions hotel. Number one. But the other thing that struck me is that all of this stuff, all of this technology, it's already here. It's not like you were creating new systems.

Was there, you, you plucked them off the shelf? I'm doing that in, in quotations, but got them into your property, have zero emit zero emissions, but also had a meaningful, meaningful, meaningful savings, uh, on utility costs over spread over 160 or a hundred and how many rooms? A hundred and

Bruce Becker: 165 rooms.

Dan Ryan: rooms. And it, it was like, it was meaningful.

So what really struck me, the ultimate was that. Of all the developers that are out there in hotel or other commercial real estate and even residential, it makes fiscal sense. Oftentimes you'll hear people say, oh, you know, it's too expensive or you have to get tax credits or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Like, what do you say to those? Like, pretend I don't believe that it's readily available and at hand. Like, what do you say to me and to our listeners to show, to convince them that you can do this and it makes financial sense?

Bruce Becker: it's a simple question, which is would you rather have, uh, more net operating income or less? Uh, and, uh, there is the same impact on the bottom line, uh, as having, say, an additional 20 guest rooms here as we get from having, uh, Uh, an energy bill that is a third of what it would otherwise be. You know, it actually is, is more valuable because gross income, you have to split with the franchise.

You have to split with the management. Uh, those are all, um, you know, there's, there, there's a three legged stool for

hotels. There's the owner, the operator, and the, and the brand. And unfortunately, the owner, um, is often not the one making all the decisions about brand standards or about, um, you know, how things are operated and what equipment is, is, uh, more efficient.

Uh, but, in fact, the owner is the one that, at the end of the day, uh, you know, the, the net operating income trickles down to. So, if you can do what we've done, um, and only spend 5, uh, in energy for every occupied room night versus 15, which is the norm in the Northeast, You've got an extra 10 of free cash flow for every guest that comes through your doors, and that, um, that adds up pretty quickly.

For us, it's about a 300, 000 a year improvement to our bottom line. And so if you can do that, and you can also, um, uh, eliminate any use of fossil fuels, and have that, uh, the technology... Uh, be less expensive when you factor in the tax credits and the incentives that are available now. Uh, it's hard for me to imagine doing anything else.

Uh,

Dan Ryan: So, I'm just so blown away by the 300, 000 in savings spread out over 160 plus rooms, because if you, not only from a free cash flow perspective, what does that do from, from, um, Putting sustainability at the forefront, like at the, at the top of your vision for what you're trying to execute, what does that do from a valuation perspective, especially considering like, obviously you have leverage and all this, it must be a multiplier of incredible amounts, especially because you're, you're also paying yourself first after the management and brand and everyone else gets the, gets the top line.

Bruce Becker: you know, it probably means the hotel's worth five million dollars more than it otherwise would be. And, and also, um, I've been to a number of, uh, real estate conferences, uh, and listened to the most senior people for European funds. And, um, They're now saying that they're not going to invest in buildings that are using fossil fuels.

I mean, they're, uh, the ESG is, is being driven in large part by the capital. And if you're, um, if you're creating a hotel that has a lot of carbon emissions, it's going to be a lot harder to sell at the end

of the day. Also, states and cities and countries are, uh, beginning to impose big penalties for fossil fuel use.

In Manhattan, or actually in all of New York City, for buildings that are over 25, 000 square feet, they're rolling out a carbon tax of over 500 a ton annually, which means that hotels this size, if they continue with business as usual, they're going to be paying 200, a year in penalties for that. So, there's a great upside to the bottom line and also to the environment for...

Um, pivoting and embracing this technology that's available. Um, but there's also a real, a real, um, stick if you don't do that. And, uh, um, there's also, the market is, is, it's clear that, you know, two thirds or three quarters of the traveling public cares about sustainability. Um, we can't escape it after a year like this one with...

crazy fires and storms and, um, and smoke. I mean, even if we're not having fires here, we're getting it from elsewhere in the country and elsewhere in the world. Um, it is a problem. And the, there's an article in the Times today that, um, unfortunately, despite all the pledges that countries have made with the Paris Accord, the emissions keep going up every

year. So there is, um, The time to act is now. Uh, there's no reason not to. I think the reason that it hasn't been done

Dan Ryan: Yeah, that's my, that's actually my, my other question, like, a real question, like, why is it not, why has it not been taken on? I, I know that a lot of the big REITs, a lot of the big, uh, private equity firms now, it's very important to the, the people who lead those companies to incorporate this. And I, I, I, it's, I think it's either, it's two, twofold.

Either they genuinely, See that the time to act is now because it, the tail risk from not doing anything from an environmental perspective could impact all of their real assets around the world. Um, so there's a financial motive or like the retail human, like people care now. And that's the customer in the market that they have to share change.

Or the third one is It just makes financial sense, and maybe it didn't make financial sense until recently, but like, what's been the holdback in your opinion?

Bruce Becker: well, first of all, you're right. All of the brands have pledged by 2030, which is, I mean, that's seven years away, they have pledged, um, significant reductions in, uh, fossil fuel emissions, um, Hyatt, uh, has pledged a 71 percent reduction, Marriott, 65%, uh, Accor, 62%, Hilton, 53%, IHG, 37%. They've all gone on record saying they're going to make these reductions.

However, the reality is, if you look at the Cornell benchmarking index for full service hotels, the emissions are actually going up each year by double digits. Uh, there was a moment because of the, um, maybe because of the pandemic when the, the total emissions looked like they were holding even or going down, but they're going up, and, and, uh, the growth of all the world economies is still relying heavily on

fossil fuels, so we have this disconnect between what people are actually doing and what they want to do. The

reason it hasn't happened, the reason that we're the first here at Hotel Marcel, Puzzles me, but I think it may be the same reason why our approach is different. That I'm fortunate to have a, hand in every discipline, from the finance, to the design, to the development, Um, and to, um, you know, selecting a brand and working with the manager.

And so I have this integrated approach. It's really no one's, if you ask a typical development team who's in charge of making sure you don't use fossil fuels, no one would raise their hand because they're all going to look to the person not to their right or their left and think well, no one gave me this assignment.

So it's just a role that no one has had yet. Now the brands have made pledges, but they don't really control which engineer gets hired and what they're told to do. The hospitality industry is, in many ways, is a, it's so complicated and so hard to just open a hotel, um, that, you know, is, is on budget, on schedule and can pay the mortgage that, uh, I, think there's a tendency to just repeat successful models, you know, which is the whole basis for, um, The hard branded hotels, you know, you have a recipe that works, so you repeat it and you expect the same results, but if you're going to overlay all the thousands of decisions that get made and Add one more criteria. I mean everyone wants to make hotels as beautiful as possible they obviously want to have a balanced operating budget and a balanced development budget, but Apparently we're the first Development team that has said In addition to everything else we have to do, we're just not going to use fossil fuels.

Um, once you make that decision, everything else falls into place. It's actually quite effortless. It's the

same amount of effort as buying an electric car versus a gas car. You just make a different consumer choice. But you do that about, you really only have to do that about 15 times. You know, when you buy your kitchen equipment, when you buy your laundry equipment, when you buy your, um, hotel shuttle vehicle.

Um, and, you know, it used not to be possible to do that for domestic hot water systems, but now there are really good, highly efficient air source heat pumps for making, uh, lots of hot water for commercial buildings. So it's all available now.

Dan Ryan: CEO of every large private equity company sitting in front of you who has a sizable Commercial real estate portfolio and every, um, the head of every large commercial real estate REIT sitting in front of you and you had a magic wand and to give them and say, Hey, this magic wand, or it's really your advice is the magic one, but like, what's the first step that they could take?

I always liked that saying like the heart, what's the. The best way to, or the only way to really eat an elephant is one bite at a time. What's the most meaningful first bite you could tell all of those stakeholders and shareholders to take, uh, when thinking about having a zero emissions property?

Bruce Becker: Well, uh, you know, the good news is that...

all the major hotel brands have been measuring their emissions and their energy use, uh, for... Some as long as a

decade. So the data is already there. Um, it's aggregated now, though. Um, I think Marriott is starting for some hotels to disclose it on their marketing websites, which is great.

Uh, the City of New York actually requires public disclosure of those, that data. Um, the first step is just... Measuring things. Once you measure it, then you can manage it, and it's pretty easy to, um, I think if someone's going to buy a property or invest in a property, ask what the, um, energy use intensity is.

Ask what the fossil fuel emissions are. They're easy to calculate. And then look where they come from. It may be that, um, for a hotel that doesn't have a on site laundry, It's their

hot water system that is producing half of their carbon emissions. And you just replace it with, uh, you know, Mitsubishi has this great new, uh, Heat 2.

0 air source heat pump system that uses, uh, CO2 as the refrigerant. You know, it's, sure, it's maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars of investment, but overnight those carbon emissions just go

away. You don't have to buy offsets for them. Uh, it may be for a different property. It's the commercial laundry that is, uh, is, you know, the low hanging fruit.

It might be the kitchen. Uh, it's interesting how, uh, how easy it has been to, um, have a really great restaurant. We have at Hotel Marcel, uh, Chef Megan, uh, uh, has, uh, Runs the team in the kitchen for our BLTG restaurant. And it's consistently, um, one of the best meals that you'll find in a, in a, certainly in a hotel in the state of Connecticut, if not in any restaurant.

I mean, it's, it's innovative. There's no compromise made. It's, uh, it's, it's, you know, like, like anyone who's used induction cooking for their own

Dan Ryan: Well, that...

Bruce Becker: Uh, it gets, it takes getting used to, but There's no, it actually allows you to do things faster and more cleanly and with a better indoor air quality than you

Dan Ryan: Yeah, so that one actually, um, cause we started off in there. You took me into the kitchen and then I was, I was amazed. Induction ovens and stoves have been there forever. Induction stoves have been there forever. And I'm, I'm like, well, why hasn't that taken off? Cause you always see these kitchens with the burners and everything else.

Why hasn't that taken off? But then I, then I, I, that thought was in my mind. And then you brought me upstairs to show me. The lighting system, the heating cooling system, uh, we went up on the roof and looked at the, at the solar panels and then I realized from the battery technology to the cat five lighting to, I didn't see the laundry actually, but from everything else, it's, these are all parts and pieces that are on the shelf now.

So aside from like the measuring first, like if you can't measure, I think you said if you can't. If you measure it, you can manage it, right? So measure, but let's say everyone's measuring it. It's all there. What's the next bite you would take?

Bruce Becker: Yeah, well certainly anything that is reaching it, at the end of its useful life. I mean, hotels do replace stuff more frequently than any other building type. So, um, you know, you're um, I think you're, I would advocate just to do everything. Um, I don't, and, and, you know, there is, in most states, there's something called CPACE financing, Commercial Property Assessed Clean Energy financing.

We happen to work with Nuveen, which is, I think, the market leader with that. And, uh, they'll give you, like, we have six million dollars of, of funding. They just gave us to do, uh, all of our energy efficiency and, and renewable energy systems.

Um,

Dan Ryan: And is the underwriting different for that? Like how would, how would applying and getting that debt structure, like how, how, how is that different from just getting a regular loan? Is it more onerous? Is it, is there more documentation? Like what's, what's holding, in your mind, what's holding back others from tapping into the C PACE financing that's there?

Bruce Becker: I think it's just, it's just realizing that this is something new. Uh, just like the, the all electric systems are new, this is a new type of financing for many people. It's actually the fastest growing area, and particularly in this environment, where the commercial banks are, are starting to scale back, given, uh, you know, with rising interest rates, they're starting to be a lot more selective about their loans because they...

The existing commercial loan portfolios, when the loans mature, they, you know, they can't support the, the same amount of debt at the current interest rates. So commercial banks are, are being a lot more cautious in, in recent months. But the seed based lenders are still, uh, they don't have the same kind of exposure because it's long term, you know, it could be, uh, 20, 25 year, um, uh, investment.

It's paid back through your tax bill, so it's not really like a second mortgage or mortgage at all, so it's, it's a lot more

Dan Ryan: Explain that. How does it, how do you pay it back through your tax bill?

Bruce Becker: it's basically like a tax lien. It has the same priority as a tax lien would have, so when you get your tax bill?

it has the same consequences.

Um, if you don't... If you sell the property, the new owner actually has the same obligation. It's like a tax bill. It's not a, um, you can prepay it. Um, but it's a new type of financing that where the underwriting is a little simpler. It doesn't require personal guarantees, Which is a

Dan Ryan: Oh, wow.

Bruce Becker: Uh, you may have to guarantee that you're going to complete your project.

But, um, it's, it's a simpler, um, Uh, approach, and every underwriter might do it a little differently, it started with the idea that, um, that these energy efficiency and renewable energy, uh, investments actually strengthen the bottom line. So imagine that you have a, uh, a hotel with a big energy bill, and let's say you're paying, uh, 200, 000 a year for your electric bill, um, but you have an opportunity to put, uh, Uh, solar canopies out in your parking lot.

And that costs you, um, and, and that could actually cut that electric bill in half. But you can install those, and the debt service on, on those canopies is only, um, 50, 000. So at the end of the day, you're reducing your outlay when you combine the C PACE financing. Uh, debt service, uh, with your electric bill, your, your total net operating income goes up by 50,

000.

Uh,

Dan Ryan: valuation of the whole thing, which makes them look at the property or the project as a lower risk. So their chart, they're, they're, they're taking on less of a list,

less

Bruce Becker: And, and then the, and the first, the first lender has, has like an extra 50, 000 of cushion. I think for some folks, you know, who maybe have floating rates to their loans and they see their, their, loans going up by, you know, 100 basis points, this is a way that you can Create that additional cash flow and, and, and deal with the higher interest rates.

It's, people haven't typically looked at energy efficiency and on site renewable energy as a way to, uh, create value. But it definitely

Dan Ryan: And then just so I'm clear in the, in the course of doing a new. New building, like, there's all different kinds of debt instruments, so there's the actual, the mortgage, right? Then there's a construction loan, potentially, or other mezzanine stuff just to get you over the hump to redevelop or renovate. But then the CPA stuff is for the systems within the building?

Bruce Becker: It's, it's for the whole property

as a whole. So it's, um, it's a, it's recorded against the deed of the property. Uh, and it's, it's, repayment is similar to the obligation to repay, to pay the taxes. It can't be foreclosed on. I mean, they, they can only collect one year's worth at a time. So, um, uh, and it's, it's a tool that I think has been used actually to, to help create some, uh, a little more cash for projects.

But it, it ultimately, it answers the question of, you know, someone says they can't afford it, but they don't have the, the... Capital to do it. It's a ready source, and when you tap it, and you make these improvements, you actually end up with more money at the end of the day, even after the debt services is accounted for, if you're investing in things that reduce your energy

costs. And, um, if you can, you know, if you can reduce your, your energy bill by a couple hundred thousand dollars a year, um, And you can do that by borrowing, say, a million dollars. That's a pretty smart investment. It's the biggest return on capital you can make in a project.

Dan Ryan: So, to me, that seems like a layup no brainer, and it sounds to me like you were saying, you know, Nuveen, They have the capital, but, so what's, so in your mind, like, what's the hangup in trying to get, get these

going? What, like,

Bruce Becker: I think it's a, I think it's a mindset. I think it's a mindset where, um, and it's the same problem that as designers we encounter when we try to make budgets work, which is... And you know, we did it with our own art budget. We've got a great art collection here, but we started out wanting to spend twice as much on it.

Um, so you'd usually, the thing about art is, at least in the short term, it doesn't create a return on investment that is, that helps you cover your mortgage. But energy efficiency investments and on site renewables do. But unfortunately, people don't normally think about, When they're in a, uh, uh, uh, uh, trying to close a budget gap, they're usually just cutting everything, uh, and, and figuring out What, they can cut and still open their hotel. Whereas, uh, um, sometimes by spending a little more money, um, and bringing in, in addition to the C PACE financing, the utilities, um, are providing incentives to do this.

For a $400,000 grant from United Illuminating for doing all the stuff that we did, NYSERDA for all of New York State has some great incentive of programs where they will pay for the stuff. And there's also the, um, IRA, the, uh, um, the new, uh, uh, uh, tax incentives, uh, which started a 30% tax credit for things like, batteries and solar and, and, uh, uh.

even geothermal systems. Um, and then, uh, yeah, So I think when you look at all those things together, and also in some communities, that tax rate can go up to 70 percent depending on whether you're in a, a certain zip code that, that is targeted as a, um, a low income community or a, um, an environmental justice community.

There's a whole, um, host of things that can actually create more incentives in certain communities.

Dan Ryan: let me let me ask the question. So in doing all that and having someone accountable for that, like if you imagine your team, the kind of we were recently you and I were went to the radical innovation event at the new museum in Manhattan. And you've always kind of done things yourself. And I remember in talking to you, I just, I just remember seeing you so it seemed almost like awestruck.

Like, I can't believe how many people there are to help you. Build a hotel from construction managers, project managers, uh, designers, procurement, and you like, you did, I mean, you did have a lot of those people on your team, Laura and Dieter, for instance, who I love.

Bruce Becker: Yeah, we have some great, I mean, we have a very small firm. I mean, for, uh, we've done some of the larger projects in Connecticut, but we don't do it by having lots and lots of people on our payroll. We do it by having, finding the really the best, most talented people. Um, Out there, and Dutch East Design, our branding firm and interior design firm, you know, that's the best example of that.

Where you have really thoughtful people, talented, who share your mission, and, um, share your values. And, uh, so, you know, and we have, uh, we had a great construction manager with Consigli, we had a great energy consultant with Stephen Winters Associates that helped us get through the passive house and, and lead platinum certification. we,

the list is, is, uh, there's dozens of folks, But,

we do have a very small firm ourselves. The, the advantage of that is there's not like ten people managing the

project. And I think when you have more than a couple people involved in, and, and you start to divide up the decision making between disciplines.

You lose the ability to have that integrated

vision. Um, you know, the brands, the operators, they all have a hand in it too. Um, and they all have hard and fast requirements.

Dan Ryan: Did, did Hilton give you any, um, incentives to be zero, zero emission to, um, like really help you commit to that?

Bruce Becker: I think the, thing that they have done the most has, has, has been to help share our story with the, with the world. Obviously, they're very proud of our being part of the Hilton family and it's a project that is prominently talked about in their ESG reports, but at least, and I think the brands are all beginning to find ways to try to replicate

this, but we did not have anyone at the brand say, you know, you've got to do this or something.

Um, please do this. It's, it's more, um, this is part of their

mission. We, we selected the, um, tapestry collection because it actually gave us the flexibility to do things that were unique. It wasn't a set, um, formula that we had to fill. You know, half, half the story about Hotel Marcel is it's, it's it's unique energy story.

The other half is about it's design

story as a, a building that was originally designed by Marcel Breuer who... You know, was such an important, um, designer with his, uh, roots at the Bauhaus and, and you know, his, his role as an educator at, at Harvard, um, and then, you know, his, his legacy as a furniture designer and, and designer, you know, really cool

Dan Ryan: Yeah. I

Bruce Becker: Brutalist buildings and cool modern

houses

Dan Ryan: building is stunning. It's really a, a, it's a, a monument really there off I 95.

Bruce Becker: yeah. we're, uh, it's funny, it was, it's funny. We were lucky that Paul Goldberger came for a tour and gave a little talk last night to the AIEA fellows here. And he, um, uh, he had a wonderful message, which is that sometimes there are these buildings that you see that people have given up hope on, you know.

And Hotel Marcel was formerly the Pirelli

building. It was voted twice as the ugliest building in Connecticut. Because it is sort of, uh, when the lights are off, it's this hulking concrete mass. It has this cool concrete cube that sort of hovers in the air. But, um, it was conceived, uh, by Mayor Dick Lee and Armstrong Rubber Company as sort of a beacon of progress and hope and, and investment.

But it sat vacant for 20 years and became a symbol of decline and hopelessness. And so, uh, the other part of the story of Hotel Marcel is sort of this rebirth of a architectural landmark and, and embracing that Bauhaus legacy and, and, um, uh, the design principles of the Bauhaus, less is more, and, and having the idea that, um, you can have really wonderful, comfortable, um, hospitality offered in a, Thank you.

in a

Brutalist building. That was sort of a challenge that, that, uh, Dieter and Laura, uh, and William helped us unravel and address and, um, you know, together with my wife Kramer, uh, who, who, uh, worked very closely with him and put the art collection together. I think it's, a Brutalist building can be a really warm, welcoming building and also it can be, um, welcoming for the planet too.

You know, you're, these things are not, Mutually exclusive, um, and I think while the design philosophy might be less is more, it's you know, it's, it's less distraction, less energy, less carbon pollution, um, and just keeping some of those principles, uh, front and center as you make each of the thousands of decisions you have to make as you, uh, launch a

Dan Ryan: well, I also, I know you said less is more a handful of times in the past couple of minutes, but I think you can also flip it over in the sense that not only did, with the savings that you found in your electric bill or your utility bills, right, you found less there, right, but it was also the equivalent of adding 20 guest rooms to 165 room hotel.

The other thing that I learned from you, which I thought was really interesting for all the other developers out there listening, you, the, the, the top floor was more of a mechanical spot, a mechanical area.

Bruce Becker: was a mechanical, it, it was a mechanical

penthouse. And it was originally, uh, for, you know, I don't know if, if your guests are, are gonna be able to see, uh, a visual of the building, but it's, it, the, it, it basically the, it's a bifurcated

building. There's four floors, which were originally offices, that hang above a two story gap.

And, uh, the building was built like a bridge.

Up on the ninth floor, above what was previously all the occupied space, there's a 16 foot high truss that, um, allows this large mass to hover, uh, uh, in midair. And, uh, up until we bought the building, that, that was a windowless... that just housed the trusses and, uh, the elevator equipment.

And so, one of the things... This is my first hotel, Hotel Barcel. I, my background professionally has been in mixed use projects and affordable housing, mixed income housing, supportive housing. I realized that, you know, it's an entirely different game when it comes to hotels, that they're operating businesses and they're, it's sort of like the difference between...

You know, uh, checkers and chess. So I took, um, a sixth class certificate program at the Cornell Hotel School just to learn the fundamentals. And one of the things I picked up along the way is if you're going to have a hotel with over a hundred rooms, it's really important to have meeting rooms, to, to

fill

Dan Ryan: that's, that's where, that's where I wanted to go with it, and I want to... I think what's interesting about hotels is it's not just, the hotel is not just a business, it's actually many businesses within one business. There's a lot of different revenue channels there. And what was really cool about what you shared with me, um, with the, with the meeting spaces, is not only did you clear out a lot of the mechanical stuff and create these really, really cool meeting rooms, within the greater New Haven area, where there's healthcare, um, insurance.

Yale University, all these other bits of industry. They are, from what I understood, you didn't say this way, but they're kind of falling all over themselves to book the spaces with you because they have these mandates to book hospitality events or meeting spaces in zero emissions locations. And you basically gave them a solution to that.

So they're winning because they get to help out whatever they're measuring and you're winning because you got to take this. It's pretty much empty floor and create a new business out of it.

Bruce Becker: Yeah, we have, we have 9, 000 square feet of meeting space. We have some great spaces on the, um, first floor. Um, we have the sunken lounge, which was formerly, uh, Um, a space that had a computer, uh, a large computer room with a, uh, a raised floor. We now took the space, um, and, and created a wonderful lounge area there.

It opens up to, uh, two rooms that can be combined. But the bulk of our meeting space is sort of this found space, which was previously windowless. We put full height glass walls in this, uh, courtyard that used to have a cooling tower in it. We have, uh, four, uh, classrooms and then we have a big... Uh, Uh, uh, shared open space, we call it the LOJA.

We've had events for over 300 people at the hotel. And increasingly, um, non profits, for profits, are counting their carbon footprint when they're booking events. Yale has the premier, uh, you know, graduate school of the environment. And so, this is where, um, a lot of people who are setting, uh, corporate and...

Governmental policy about, uh, carbon emissions are, they're, they're all, and even Yale, to their credit, they, they list all the hotels in New Haven, uh, on their, um, their, their visitor home page, uh, on their website, and they have a little asterisk next to Hotel Marcel, which says a zero emissions hotel. So, so we are, uh, people are starting to ask, and this is, uh, right now it's the only option in, in the country that offers this, but I think, There are rapidly, um, more and more folks that are trying to, to do the same.

And even individual travelers who are traveling for the, for pleasure, the, the leisure market, uh, surveys show that they care deeply about this

Dan Ryan: I want to ask a question about that and I'm going to tie it into this kind of idea of different channels of business and, um, because like a hotel is an operating real asset. Um, if you were to take the 300, 000 Plus or minus that you're saving in your utilities and also the found capital or the found cash flow that you have from creating this meeting space because you got rid of all these cooling towers and things that you didn't need anymore.

So you basically created a printing press. How much, if you look at the meeting space, the, um, the utility savings, and then also, like you said, the asterisks, those, those travelers. Where it's a choice and it means it's impactful to them and they want to stay there and either you can look at the asterisks as, um,

More occupancy or are those people willing to pay a premium? I don't know how you look at that, but like how much Did that add to the bottom line? Just those three things the the guest the utilities and the meeting space

Bruce Becker: All I can tell you is that we're, we're outperforming, um, you know, the REVPAR, which is sort of a function both of room rate and occupancy. You know, we're now clearly outperforming the market. Now it's taken us, you know, we've been open about a year and a half. The first year, we were ramping up, and we were sort of keeping pace, but, um, certainly for the last several months, we've been, we've gotten way ahead of the pack, uh, in both measures.

Um, you know, I think there was uh, I think people are starting to look at, uh, the substance of, uh, emissions. You know, there have been... Different, uh, meeting organizations that will try to structure offsets to offset the carbon emissions from events. I mean, there are entire organizations who's, who are, who've been set up, you know, come to us, we will buy offsets to, to compensate for the environmental damage from your travel or your meetings.

Um. John Oliver, I think, did as good a job as

anyone with his segment on, on, uh, offsets to show that, you know, that's really just smoke and mirrors. The reality is the carbon emissions globally are going up every year at much too high a rate. And even if we say, okay, over here, we're going to keep this forest, uh, pristine, that's not going to solve the problem.

We just have to stop creating emissions, period. In California. I think it was the second or third quarter of this year, electric cars made up 25 percent of new car sales. There's clearly a recognition, starting on the coast, but, but spreading. We're actually consulting on a project in Texas where they're as excited about being, uh, uh, zero emission as anyone.

Um, but there is a, uh, You know, all you have to do is, is look at the news and see all the horrendous impacts of the climate to realize we just can't, we can't afford to burn any fossil fuels anymore. It's just making the problem worse

Dan Ryan: So then I have a question on that specifically because your hotel is zero emissions. Let's say California 25 percent of the cars are electric

The power still has to come from something so Where is it coming from because those emissions are going to be made somewhere else is it going to be more efficient is it? Or are that are you able to sequester the energy that you buy from non? Um, Emissions, Sources.

Bruce Becker: Yeah, so right now, um, in the summer, there are plenty of days where we're producing all the electricity ourselves. We have over a thousand solar panels. Our goal is to be, um, Certifiably net zero, which means that over the course of 12 months, we've produced it all, and we have a plan in front of the city to add an array of ground mount panels across the street, actually adjacent to the highway, which will get us to that point.

It's still a bureaucratic

Dan Ryan: tell me you're not going to displace the amazing army of food trucks that are over there.

Bruce Becker: No, no, no. This is going in an area that people can't even see. It's sort of this hillside of an

embankment for a highway that's really not usable for anything. But, uh, no, we have a great, uh, what they call, uh, a food truck heaven

around the corner from us. Uh, in addition to, uh, having all the Swedish meatballs you could choose from IKEA and a fantastic restaurant here.

There's, and the best pizza in the world at Worcester Square. You know, we're the closest hotel to, uh, to Sally's and Pepe's and as well as being the closest hotel to to the Amtrak station here. We do have some really cool food options around. But we're, but the um, getting back to the ideas of the source of the power, you know, the grid, the state of Connecticut has has committed to have, uh, the grid be a hundred percent renewable um, you know, within a decade or two.

And, you know, there's offshore wind going in. The, uh, the highest The biggest chunk of new generation that's being added pretty much everywhere is solar and wind. And so the important thing is that we put in the electric equipment now so that as the grid gets greener and greener, the buildings get greener and greener.

And if you can have solar panels in your parking lot, and a lot of hotels with more parking areas than we have, Most hotels in the United States have, they're surrounded by surface parking lots, and particularly if it's a, you know, like a, a building that's only four stories, there's enough roof area, enough parking area to be 100 percent net zero.

So, it's, and, and the numbers, when you put in a solar canopy, uh, and you finance it with CPACE, you suddenly are, are, at least in the Northeast, you're changing your, Electric bill from being as high as 0. 25 a kilowatt hour to maybe only 12 a kilowatt hour. So that in itself is a way to save money and also ensure that all the power flowing to your building is not from fossil fuel sources.

Um, at least in Connecticut, and I think in New York and elsewhere, you could also just elect for the power you're getting from the grid to, to, uh, elect that it be 100 percent

renewable. And, uh, uh, we do that. So we're not buying any power that is, uh, coming from fossil fuels, even while we're waiting to, to, uh, install more renewable energy

Dan Ryan: I, I also heard something recent. I don't remember where I heard it. It could have just come up in my, in like a social media feed. But someone had said, it might have been Elon Musk, uh, from Tesla. But he basically said... If you made a hundred mile by hundred mile solar panel in the middle of the United States, which doesn't, like, when you fly over the United States, you're flying over a hundred miles in a couple of minutes, but like you, it seems very achievable that that could power the entire United States.

Now you need batteries and all this other stuff for, for nighttime and cloudy days and everything else, but it seems to me like all the energy we need, if we're facing this dire emergency, which I, I agree with. I'm not saying if we are, we are, um, why not Occam's razor? Like, that seems like a simple solution or like,

it just, it doesn't make

sense to me.

Bruce Becker: Well, that is, that's true visually, but the best thing is to have the power generated where it's being used. Um, first of all, it's more valuable, um, because when you, if you're a hotel owner and you install it you're immediately getting the direct benefit if, if, um, now some states have more onerous.

Requirements, and they don't let you put solar behind the meter, but many states do, certainly in the Northeast. And so, uh, that, that way you get a direct benefit. But, uh, and it's also, you know, when you move electricity from one place to another, there's a efficiency cost there. Um, I mean, I, I sort of came to this with an experiment I did on my historic house in, in Westport, where...

We bought an antique house. It was really cool. It was a block from the beach. Um, but it had an oil furnace and it had, uh, inefficient windows and, um, had a gas stove. And so over a couple years we, uh, we put an induction stove. We put in two Tesla Powerwalls. We ended up putting 64 solar panels on the roof and replacing the gas, um, or the oil furnace and hot water system with an all electric heat pump system.

And, uh, it was a great return on investment. Um, we have, uh, neighbors who, uh, yeah, when there are these increasing number of power outages, they have their generators going on, they run out of fuel, or they asphyxiate them because, you know, your, your, um, their health issues with

Dan Ryan: How, How, long did that investment for your home pay for itself, take to pay for

Bruce Becker: I did an analysis. It was about a five year payback. You know, it's like a 20 percent return on equity. I think people don't really do the numbers, you know.

Dan Ryan: Yeah,

Bruce Becker: Most people don't have extra change, but if they do, you know, often they'll put it in the stock market, or they'll buy a bond or mutual fund, but the money goes a lot further if you invest it in your own energy

systems.

And it's also more predictable. I mean,

you know, the amount of power you get from a solar panel, it's like a bond. You know, once you buy it, what you're going to get out of it. As opposed to the stock market, you know, you might wake up in the morning and find that it's... Only worth 25 percent uh, less than what it was the day before, so.

Dan Ryan: I, I have another stupid question. So let's, let's say we're in this rising interest rate environment. Um, a lot of, and I'll say hotel, but like all, all commercial real estate, you know, it's coming time to, to refinance some loans, the rates are much higher, three, four times what they were historically, and then, but then you talk about this C PACE, if they're, if they're refinancing into this high rate environment, can they say, Hey, I'm going to do a solar canopy on our parking lot and on the top of the building with with power walls.

Can they refinance that whole loan into C PACE to fund that and then improve their cash flow? Yeah,

Bruce Becker: you can't borrow as much money with higher rates. So maybe when you refinance, you refinance, uh, and you end up with a smaller first mortgage. But then you get the C PACE, which maybe allows you to, uh, take out the balance of the other loan and also invest in these technologies that will...

Uh, improve your NOI.

Dan Ryan: it's something I've just heard about. And maybe, maybe it's like where I use that term is like a puzzle, the puzzle master for you. Um, maybe because people don't have that one accountable person where they're measuring and doing it, it just seems like learning Sanskrit. Like, I don't, like, I don't know, because everything that you've shown me and walking through your hotel and what I read out there, it seems that it's totally possible.

And I just don't know why we're waiting. I don't know. I don't know what the holdup is.

Bruce Becker: It's tradition, you know. There's some people that are scared of new things, or their, um, things are so complicated, they just want to do what they did before. It's, you know, there's always going to be people that are hesitant about buying an electric car because they don't know it. Or they, they, they love their car dealer.

And, uh, I'll go. Not a lot of people do, but there, there, there's always some reason, uh, maybe not to make the change that is logical, um, part of its emotion, but I think what's compensating for that is more and more people are freaked out about the climate, and they're looking for solutions, and certainly, um, I, you know, I went to, uh, Yale's, at the School of Management at Yale, they have an annual real estate conference.

There were people who were... like, in charge of major investment portfolios. And they were asked to talk about what they were doing, and they spent half their time talking about climate change, and, uh, not investing in, um, projects or portfolios that had carbon emissions. So this is, um, at a certain point, and I go back to the analogy with electric cars, sometimes, you know, sometimes the technology is.

actually safer, cheaper.

Uh, more beautiful, and the market will, uh, even without, um, a mandate, uh, you'll find, uh, you know, they're, Boston, they're banning new fossil fuel connections. Um, if you build a project in France, you have to do a whole carbon emissions, including the embodied carbon of the construction, uh, analysis, and you have to show that you're net zero.

So, uh, but even before those mandates in governmental... Uh, incentives and, uh, uh, penalties are are forced on the industry. Um, I think just general market preference might, might force people to take that route.

Dan Ryan: I mean, that's kind of what, that's that retail human, I think. Right? It's like, it's the, the consumer is really, and the consumer in a way has always been the tail, right, of the dog. And now I, I'm just hope, I'm hopeful. I don't know if it's true. I don't know how to like prove this out, but I'm hopeful that that consumer, which was always the tail, is now wagging the dog.

And I'm not, I, I just don't know how to. How to prove that. Also, I didn't, I also didn't realize that this was your first hotel. So, one of the things that I love about this industry is how passionate everyone in hospitality is about hospitality. Um, how did doing your first hotel change you for the better?

Bruce Becker: Yeah. Well, Chris, we didn't know any better?

Uh, we thought, I mean, I've been used to doing, um, LEED Platinum multifamily projects. And, uh, I've seen that it's not that much harder to do. You have to just track a few more things. And, uh, I've also seen, because I have had an ownership role recently, either shared or, um, you know, where we actually have the owner role, you know, that when you have a lower energy bill, it makes it easier to, uh, to pay your mortgage and make distribution to your partners.

So, um, I, uh, because I have the design and the developer and the finance pen, a typical designer, you know, they will take direction from their client. And, uh, you know, it's usually not the first thing on the list. Um, and they, I think people trust their engineers to design proven systems that are efficient.

Unfortunately, you know, one of the unfortunate things about our environment as, as designers is that we're always worried about litigation risk and that we're going to be sued because we didn't design something right or we designed something new and different and it failed. And the um, the general rule of thumb in defending your design claims is that if you do what everyone else does, you have no liability.

You know, if you're, if you're basically do, you're meeting the professional

standards. If everyone else has put, put in, you know, PTAC systems for the hotels and you put them in and something doesn't work, no one's ever been sued for designing a system that uses too much energy. Uh, maybe they should be, but up until now I haven't heard of that.

But they get sued because they design a system that can't keep, uh, the building warm enough in the winter or cold enough in the, in the, in the summer. So we tend to have a bias, or engineers do, in over designing to make sure that we... Uh, have systems that are proven that, um, you know, we haven't stuck our necks out.

But unfortunately, when you do innovation, by definition, you have to do something new that hasn't really been widely

adopted. Uh, and because I wasn't worried about being sued by the owner, because I am the owner, I guess I was willing to try some things out. But also, I enjoyed, because it was my first hotel project, Every little decision that was made, I wanted to understand the basis for it.

So, for example, it came time to buy, um, these warming dishes for the, our catering operation. Uh, typically, if you're on a budget, you buy a typical stainless steel warming tray that you use Sterno in. And I sort of thought, well, wait a second, why do, here we've gone to great measures to protect our indoor air quality.

All this, uh, wonderful filtered fresh air coming into every space. Why would we want to be burning sterno in, in, in the most populated areas? And then we investigated electric ones and found that they, um, managers don't like them because they get ganged together and they, the breakers flip. But then I dug a little deeper and I found that there's some, these great induction, um, warming trays that Only used like 20 watts each and you can gang them together.

You can gang 10 together and plug them into a regular outlet, 30 amp outlet. And so we bought those. They are a little bit more, but they pay for themselves in saved energy or CERNO bills in about 6 months. So you know, because I sort of was in the decision making path for every little purchase, we were able to sort of filter out everything that involved burning stuff.

And then also... Look at the return on investment for everything that maybe costs a little bit more. Uh, these chafing dishes, they, you set the temperature on them. And, uh, the conventional ones, you sort of turn it to like 1, 3, or 5, and more often than not, you, you know, it, it ruins the food that's, in them. So, there, I think I, it's just this holistic look at everything that, um, and the fact that we hadn't ever made any of the, the decisions before and wanted to take a fresh look.

Because it's only natural, like if we did a second hotel, we would start by saying let's do everything we did at Hotel Marcel, and then maybe see is there anything else we should change, and that's a different process,

um, than,

Dan Ryan: that's actually, and I know you've said this a couple of times, but when, when I think about having a, the highest priority for a project, it's like a rock, right? It's a, it's, it's a boulder, if you will. And then if you make decisions all around that, it's like a boulder rolling into a river, it blocks it, but then the water figures its way around the boulder eventually.

So. Yeah. Rather than take the whole idea of this, just sustainability, to just come up with, come to approach a project with, look, we're going to be a zero emissions property. It helps make all these other decisions and all the cascading and compounding decisions, like you put that front first and foremost, and it's only going to benefit the financial performance of the project.

The sense of wellbeing amongst the guests and the, and the employees and team members that are there and the community around it, it doesn't sound like, to me, I was like, Oh, that's so rainbows and unicorns, but it seems pretty simple.

Bruce Becker: Yeah. but you know, it, it wasn't that simple until like two years ago when Mitsubishi started to sell their, their, air source heat pump system for domestic hot water. You had to You had to use fossil fuels to make a lot of

hot water. Um, but now you don't have to. So, and the problem is that was sort of like the gateway drug for fossil fuels.

Because once you had the gas line coming in for your water system, then yeah, why not use it for the laundry, why not use it for the kitchen? Um, but if you sort of draw that hard line, you're right. It is, uh, you find a way around. And sometimes the way around is a, is a shorter path and less expensive path.

Uh. You know, I actually like the term zero emission. I mean, people talk about net zero, but I actually think, I've sort of gotten concerned about

net. Net

Dan Ryan: zero, when, as I'm learning about this, I, and you're always like, it's not a net zero hotel, it's a zero emissions, and then I start thinking about it, I'm like. Net zero means you're comparing or measuring with other factors outside and around. So in a way it becomes a, like a shell game in a way, in a way.

Whereas you can create your own accountability and environment of measurement if you just say, look, this hotel is gonna have zero emissions.

Bruce Becker: it's the simplest standard. Um, no one certifies it because it's just such a simple measure. You know, we spent a year getting our passive house certification issued even longer with the LEED Platinum. You know, we, we were able to declare the minute we opened that we were zero emission. Um, and, uh, it, it's a simple thing.

I, you know, I think it's a, I think you'll see it more and more. I, uh, uh, there, everyone's now talking about all electric buildings, and that's easy too. Um, if you don't have a gas line, uh, you know, one of the, one of the hotel brands, not Hilton, um, Actually has a brand standard that you have to have a fossil fuel connection.

Um, I think they're revisiting that, uh, because once you have that, then you, um, you know, you you're you're not forced to look at these other options that are

Dan Ryan: But it could be, I'm sure there's a brand out there where, like, plastic straws is really important to them, right? Where, okay, I appreciate the intention behind that. But those same brands could also say, Okay, we're gonna give our partners five years to cut the gas line. That, that actually... Because in five years you have to, if, if like what you said earlier, hotels maintain, uh, do preventative maintenance or replace systems more frequently than other forms of commercial real estate, there is this, um, degradation that naturally happens and preventative maintenance that needs to go on, and maybe it's something as simple as saying, we want you to cut all gas lines going into a hotel, and you know what, we're gonna, we have, An army full of people in, in our corporate headquarters, we're going to have a little pod of people that can help you navigate the CPAC, Pace Financing, or other incentives that may exist around there.

It sounds like it could be a,

Bruce Becker: Dan, I think that's going to happen. We just recently got, um, communication from Hilton that they partnered with Tesla for the Level 2 chargers. And there's a, uh, pilot program where they're going to make it really easy. to put in EV chargers. Of course, that's the second half of our climate crisis. You know, the two big contributors are, are, uh,

buildings, um, that architects and designers are responsible for making, and, uh, and transportation.

So, uh, we have to look at everything together, but they're, they are, the hotel companies are rolling this out. Um, both Hilton and Marriott have rolled out public, uh, um, level two EV charging. where they pre negotiate rates and make it easy for hotel owners. Um, they are, um, I think they're, they're always focused on their bottom line, and so they're always trying to grow the number of hotels that are under their umbrella,

uh, just to be, um, you know, to try to create stockholder, uh, value.

Uh, They're also keenly aware, though, that some of the big institutional investors are going to put an increasing priority on reducing emissions. So that is going to enter into it. They're, so far, there is not a carrot or a stick. Um, they're asking us to measure and report our energy use And uh, fossil fuel use.

So they at least have the data to work with. Uh, but... For example, Marriott has a program to encourage minority ownership of, um, hotels that are franchised. Actually, they give a discount. Uh, I think it's something like a couple percent in the, early years that, that ramps down. Maybe a total of

Dan Ryan: And that's off the

that's off the gross revenue.

Bruce Becker: It's, Yeah. so they basically give a discount to minority owners, uh, in the early years to make it... Franchise is more accessible, um, and obviously that's a great thing to create a little more diversity of hotel owners, um, and, and have, have a greater, um, uh, cross section of, of people own hotels. However, I think they could do something very similar for, to encourage zero emission hotels.

Um, so far there has not been a, uh, despite all the pledges made about, commitments to reduce emissions, I have not seen, um, any incentives rolled out to actually encourage owners to do that, nor have I seen, um, penalties imposed, but your idea of saying this is going to happen in the future, um, uh, maybe all the hotels have to act together so they're

not worried that they're going to suddenly be at a disadvantage.

Dan Ryan: preventative maintenance comes up. Give them a allowable, like when your systems are time for renovation, Hey, maybe we'll, maybe the brands can help negotiate with Mitsubishi for the hot water system or something and like get them a, like a bulk deal.

Bruce Becker: Yeah, exactly. You know, we, we had, uh, when we opened the hotel, um, and other owners, uh, uh, and interior designers and, and, uh, listeners will be familiar with this, but, you know, it's always a rush to get the hotel open because until you pass inspection by the brand, they won't let you open. And, uh, so we were in pretty good shape.

We thought we were. They came in, they said, wait a second. Your doorstops are mounted on the floor. We don't allow that. Um, They have to be on the wall. We didn't even ask why, so we quickly, in 24 hours, you know, we got out these, these beautiful, uh, bronze, uh, wall mounted doorstops that, uh, we selected with Dutch East and put them up, and lo and behold, we passed the test.

But then I said, well, why did we have to do that? And apparently, uh, um, hotels, uh, have, uh, been sued more than a few times by hotel guests that...

break their toes in the middle of the night on a floor mounted doorstop. So, I, I think that that, the idea that some of the design decisions actually are going to create liabilities for us if we don't change them, um, I think that, um, that's applicable to hospitality for the climate too.

And, and, and I think we're, we will see the brands. Because I know they're all you know, we've had... Teams from Marriott come down here as well as Hilton and, and, and, and look and dissect all the things we've done. I do believe that they're poised to, uh, uh, start to roll out carrots and sticks to, uh, to encourage, uh, more

zero emission

Dan Ryan: I love it. And so. To think about the, the health of the planet and climate, I mean, it's a heavy kind of a downer subject, but I, but I guess my optimistic glass half full is if you're at the vanguard of this and saying that it is achievable and doable, like now, um, with that glass half full kind of perspective, as you look out into the not even far distant future, but like, You know, 5, 10 years out, what's exciting you most about what you see out there?

Bruce Becker: Well, I'm excited that this is all readily achievable. If someone said, no hotel. can produce any fossil fuel emissions after 2030. And they knew now, we could have a fossil fuel free industry. Um, you know, this past year was pretty horrific in terms of climate change. But what we're being told is this is just the beginning and who knows what next year will bring or the year after.

So, um... Particularly for the hospitality industry, which counts on, um, you know, having beautiful experiences all over the globe, that just the, the potential for that is, is directly at odds with our damaging the climate. So there is, I'm encouraged that the solutions are here, available, affordable. I'm also encouraged that there's increasing recognition.

are a lot fewer people denying that this is a problem than there were even a couple years ago. We're seeing it driven by consumers, um, and corporations with the, um, mandate. So, I'm, I think there's a reason to have a lot of hope about this. It's not a, um, it's, it's a hopeful situation, situation because And the other thing is we don't have to compromise anything.

We can have the most beautiful hotel. You know, Hotel Marcel has gotten so much acclaim and praise for things that have nothing to do with its energy

systems. Because we have these passive house compliant windows, and I'm here up on the, uh, 8th floor in the former, uh, president's office of Armstrong Rubber Company.

This is now this presidential suite. We're 200 feet from the

Dan Ryan: It's not

just a high, everyone, it's not just a highway, it's I 95 going from Miami up to Maine. And this one little stretch between Boston and New York is intense. And being in there, if you're on YouTube, being in this room, I couldn't even hear. I could not hear the semis blasting past.

Bruce Becker: Yeah,

I'm looking at right now, I mean, there's just a stream of four lanes of traffic going both directions with tractor trailer trucks, and, I mean, you can, there's nothing to hear

here because we have two and a half inch thick passive house, uh, compliant windows that do a great job of making thermos, but they also keep all the noise out.

But, we've been told... By many people this is the quietest hotel room they've ever stayed in, in

their

Dan Ryan: is so crazy to me being right next to I 95. Yeah.

Bruce Becker: The thing that I'm hopeful about is that we actually have created a model here that people don't, I think there has been an attitude that, gee, if we're going to save energy it's not going to be as comfortable.

People are going to be a little bit warmer than they want to be or a little bit colder than they want to be or it's not going to be as... As hospitable an environment, but it's actually the opposite. You know, we have, because the building uses so little energy, because it's so well insulated, you know, we have much smaller, uh, equipment.

We have, uh, these BRF heat pumps that are right at the door. They're not near your bed, so, but they also don't make any noise. The fan doesn't have to work very hard at all. In fact, you don't hear it. I mean, a lot of hotel rooms I've been at

Dan Ryan: Oh, with those P TACs and, oh, yeah, it's,

Bruce Becker: yeah,

it's just annoying. Uh, I mean, some people actually bring sound machines in with them because they're just not used to having it so, so quiet. But you're, you're um, the visual environment, the physical environment, um, it doesn't require any, any

compromise. In fact, I think you take this holistic approach to hospitality, um, being gentle on the...

The whole experience,

and also the consequences, and the planet. and it adds up to something that really is nourishing, um, and relaxing.

Dan Ryan: I also, like, just to, and I, just to build on that idea of the environment and the holistic approach from just guest, team, team, team. Brand, Planet. If you can really tailor a wonderful experience like what you're experiencing in this quiet, serene room that I see you in and I've been there right next to I 95 and the number of people that stay there on an annual basis or have meetings, it's almost like your hotel is a force multiplier for future change, right?

And the more that we can do that it's that, um, it's that halo effect it's the butterfly Beating its wings off the coast of West Africa that turns into a hurricane, you know?

Bruce Becker: I do think, um, that this building is going to have a bigger impact than I thought. I mean, I can only, I only have the capacity to do one project every four years. I mean, I'm not, because I get so deeply involved. You know, we did this, um, Kramer, my wife and I sort of conjured this up during the pandemic, and it was a 80 hour a week marathon to get it open, trying to dodge supply chain issues.

And, um, I mean, I think we, we were targeting to have it open by graduation of 2022. We only bought the property in, on New Year's Day of 2020, so it was a marathon to get through to the finish. But we... We really didn't sleep much or get much rest. So now I'm, I don't want to do that again, but I'm, I'm doing some consulting, but I'm also, uh, very involved in, uh, speaking and hosting

events here, um, for the, for people that want to learn more about, um, this, uh, secret sauce of being zero emission.

But we also have, uh, environmental, we have the... A conference here just last week with the Conservation Law Foundation, which is a very active environmental group in the Northeast. We've worked with Save the Sound for receptions. We have multiple events with Yale, with the School of Environment, the School of Architecture, School of Management.

And a lot of folks coming from the outside. We had the home builders. Um, had their, uh, fall meeting here, and I talked to them about our technologies. And so, it's actually even the apartment industry is learning from this project. You know, a hotel is unique in that it's a public building. You know, we could have designed the, sort of, the greenest apartment building in the world, and, you know, the 20 people that lived in it would, would appreciate it.

But, I think hotels have this influence that goes, that impacts so many more people. They really are. Public buildings that, and people, people learn from. We have a lot of really curious guests. And we have, fortunately, Charlestown Hotels that manages the hotel. And they've been doing a wonderful job. I mean, both with quality and quantity.

We've been running like 98 percent for the last couple weeks here. With lots of conferences. And people are, are um, the quality of the food, the quality of the catering. Just the personal interaction, I give them just a lot of credit for doing that and, and also, you know, people are just curious about our story.

Uh, but, but I think that, that's what's going to multiply the effect of this.

Dan Ryan: and I and I said this to you and after after meeting you at the hotel and then since being with you, but whatever however I can and I'll commit it to the listeners to However, I can use this platform to help get your story out. I'm I'm all in. And also, even if there's a way to do some kind of a conference or a gathering or as a one off thing or repeated for our industry or commercial real estate in general, we don't need to talk about it right now, but like, I'm committed to helping you figure that out and be, be a, be some wind in your sails as well to help get that message out.

Because I'm just so struck that all of the palette of Solutions are readily available, they're there, and they make financial sense. And, um, and with that, if people wanted to learn more, connect with you, or, uh, learn more about Hotel Marcelle, how can they get in touch with you? What's a good way to do that?

Bruce Becker: Yeah.

well, first of all, the hotel website has a fair amount of information about our energy systems, and that's just hotelmarcell. com. And then, if they want to reach out to me, um, they can email me. I've, I come up here, uh, Several times a week, just, I mean, I'll give tours to one or two people, or I'll, if someone wants to bring a whole group of their colleagues or clients, uh, you know, we can arrange a lunch or a dinner or a multiple day event, uh, it's certainly, uh, uh, something we're set up to do, and my email is bruce at becker and becker dot com, the word and is spelled out, and we're, um, Yeah, I'm, I, I, I'm grateful to you, Dan, for, I think that the barrier to adoption is just

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Bruce Becker: And what you're doing with this podcast is, is empowering people with that knowledge.

And, um, I think that is the thing that will allow the, the, um, industry to move faster. Just to know that it's possible and not a

Dan Ryan: Yeah, thank you. And then also, if any, like, when this publishes in the next couple weeks, like, please feel free to, Chop it up and repurpose it for yourself so that you can help get your message out from your soapbox, and then I'll be sure to pass it along to everyone into snippets or the whole long form.

I mean, it's, it's really powerful. It's been so good to get to know you and we're, we're pretty much freaking neighbors as well. So, uh, I would like to in the next, maybe after Thanksgiving, cause it's kind of busy the next couple of weeks, um, but let's go out to dinner and, um, have a coffee or dinner and with a white piece of paper and start planning out what, What this, uh, I don't know, this impact thing could be.

So Bruce, I just want to thank you for becoming a new friend of mine. And, um, and thank you for your time.

Bruce Becker: Well, I, I'm, uh, the feeling's mutual. And thank you for being interested in this story and helping amplify it. And let's

get

Dan Ryan: Yes. And, uh, also without our listeners, thank you all. I really hope that this particular episode changed your idea of hospitality, but. Um, with respect to zero emissions and how achievable and readily available it is there from a product, uh, financing, um, and just knowledge, it's there. So if this has changed you or you know someone who might be interested or could benefit from thinking about this or thinks it's too complicated, um, please pass it along.

We've grown by word of mouth and I thank you all very much and we will catch you next time. Uh,