Defining Hospitality

Dan Ryan: Today's guest has over 30 years experience as a leader in the global hospitality sector. His experience combines elements of retail, entertainment, residential, hotel, and numerous other uses.

He specializes in working with local governments to help bring projects to completion. He's the Chief Development Officer and Head of Design and Construction at Garfield Public Private. Ladies and gentlemen, Steve Galbraith. Welcome, Steve.

Steve Galbreath: Thanks, Dan. I appreciate it.

Dan Ryan: So good to have you here. You know, we've all been traveling so much.

I got a little bit of a cold. Um, I really thought I would screw up your intro. And, um, I think you just made me feel very safe.

Steve Galbreath: No, no fumbling at all. It was awesome. great.

Dan Ryan: as I cough up a lung. So we've been in the industry for a really long time. We've seen each other. I know, like, as an architect, we've worked on projects before in the past.

Um, and Since you've gone to the ownership side and the development side, I don't see you as often. And I just want to say for anyone who's like, thinking about, they're on the fence about going to an event or, like, we, Just do it because you wind up reconnecting with freaking awesome people and in this case It was Alice and we were just ships passing in the lobby, but it was like, oh my god I miss you.

Where have you been? I want to hear all about you and We've had a really nice reconnect before Here, but I just want to say It's great to reconnect and I'm just glad to have you here and also to hear about the really cool stuff that, um, Garfield Public Private is doing and, and the kind of projects that you bring to like really cool places and really help change communities.

Um, and we'll get into that in a minute, but I just want to say to everyone who's like kind of on the fence about going or not Just go.

Just go and be open.

Steve Galbreath: I agree. That was probably the best hour and a half of, uh, of my, my 2024 so far. It was just great to see all of you guys. We, we used to do this thing every Probably what every other week

for decades. And, uh, and it was, uh, you know, you're right. I, I, I, I kind of reprioritized. And, uh, when I decided to not be the global, um, you know, guy chasing every job, um, for an architecture firm.

I just kind of settled down and, uh, head down and just got my work done. Right. And, uh, and I'm, and I'm starting, I've got, I've got two great kids now, uh, 12 years old and, and eight years old. And I'm, uh, I'm, I'm starting to reemerge from, uh, from the cocoon of, uh, no sleeping. So

Dan Ryan: Yeah. And they know who you are now. 'cause you're not flying all over tar. Well, you're still flying around a lot, but it's not like to the other side of the planet.

Steve Galbreath: day trips. Yeah, absolutely.

Dan Ryan: I guess, but, and I really wanna talk about how you and your team is transforming, um, communities. 'cause a, a theme that comes up on this topic a lot is, or a contrast is that are the type of hospitality projects that, um. Are just a standard run of the mill hospitality project. And then one that really connects to, engages with, and, and like activates a community. Right? It's accretive to whatever community. It's not like a spaceship that just lands in some, somewhere in a city or rural or, um, or a resort location. And I'm really intrigued, and I think our listeners will be really intrigued, um, about what you and Garfield Public Private are doing.

But before we do it, um, teeing that up with the hospitality mindset, what does hospitality mean to you?

Steve Galbreath: So, you know, we're in the hospitality and hotel business. So it's. Yeah, we're making spaces, physical spaces for people to meet and stay when they're on a journey. But it's not just about the customer who's paying to stay there, but rather the whole community, um, where our hotel resides, that, that, that spot.

And, you're right. It's about that place. It's, not just about the thousands and thousands of people who, stay there as a guest for one or two nights, or maybe they stay there every, month, but it's about the hundreds of people who work there every day. And, um, uh, we have. Uh, a property we just developed in Abilene, Texas.

It's beautiful, new build, double tree. And there's 127 employees there. The Weston and Irving, there's 145 employees. Our Hyatt Regency in Conroe, we just opened again. And Hyatt Regency in Baytown again. And, and it's, it's about those people. Um, when they see the facilities they're going to work in, the locker rooms and the dining facilities and the break rooms.

It, it, it changed, you know, it's, it's, it's a great place to work and that's what it's really about. And I think I've said it before, we really value the whole chain. It's not just about the guest. It's about the guest, obviously, but it's about everybody because there's these huge teams of people that make your, your stay, your stay.

Right.

Dan Ryan: Yeah. Um, so you're in Dallas, just as I'm hearing you say that, it's making me tap into my, My experience, and there was one time in Dallas, I was with a developer, I went out to dinner, and he, sadly, he, he passed away shortly after, um, we had that dinner together. But, when I was, it was like, you know, you go to all of these events, and you're always around all these other people, and you're, it's kind of like group talk, and you're, you know, you're aware of what's going on, it's not like, you can't really open up.

But, it was the first time after years and years of, you know, Um, being at all these events that we just sat down and, um, I was like, what? And getting to know each other on like a personal level. And I, they did, he, he, he actually did one project, uh, in the depths of the financial crisis that really, um, helped me keep the doors open.

And, you know, so I've always been grateful for that. And it was an exciting project, but I said, um, Like what draws you to it? I thought it was like the deal or just the challenges of entitlements and getting the thing built and just all, everything that goes into it. And he said, you know what? I just, I love like the people I impact.

Like sometimes it's that person's first job since they got into the United States. Sometimes it's someone who, you know, they couldn't swing it in college. Um, they, they came in and they, they started working. And then next thing you know, they're like a general manager of a hotel. Uh, sometimes it's people who are just like, are the superstar, um, finance dudes and dudettes who just come in and like, are, just enter into some channel of business within the hotel, the development or the company at large, and just start like a, a, a meteoric career path.

But in all of it, it was just the whole chain, like you said, and it was really just, it's almost like a vehicle. It's a building. Okay. It's a, it's a real asset, but it's really just a, it's a, it's a vehicle to impact not just the guests, but really like start off people's careers or pour gasoline on their already awesome careers.

Steve Galbreath: Yeah, absolutely. And it's, um, you know, they're all people. They all have families. They all have dreams. They all have, you know, things they want to do in life. And, and, and to see these folks and think that, you know, that, that valet guy, you know, 20 years from now, I'm going to run into him and he's going to be the owner of a restaurant, or he's going to be a GM of a hotel or, you know, that, that, that's, that's pretty, that's pretty special.

And, you know, when we were doing, I, when I was an architect, when I worked at RTKL, we did the Sheridan Convention Center in San Juan, Puerto Rico for Garfield. Okay. They were my client and I was with Jerry Faley, who was a, Big guy in this industry, just a really large man, but an amazing guy and a great mentor to me.

We happen to be in Fort Lauderdale. The Diplomat had just opened and we were in Fort Lauderdale. We didn't have a place to meet and Jerry thought, well, we'll just go in here and just see if we can, we can find a spot. And we walk in the lobby and within Five seconds, a guy in a suit is running as fast as he can towards the doors.

And the guy runs up to him and it's the GM of the hotel. And Jerry looks at me and says, he, he was a Bellman for me, like 25 years ago at the Wyndham in Dallas or something. Right. And the guy's the GM of that massive hotel, the Diplomat. And it just, it just, people. Go everywhere. It's a, it's a massive web.

And you, you know, I mean, from, from all the things that you do, you run into people and it's a small world. You, you'll run into somebody in Asia

that's on vacation, or you'll run into somebody who's just working in Dubai or whatever. Right.

Dan Ryan: But I think what it comes down to is hotels are almost like this. Um, it's like a filtering agent for people who love people. Right. And you don't need. a college degree. You don't need a master's degree. You don't need a doctorate. Yeah, you can. It's not, it's not bad. And, you know, going back to Texas, um, recently, and I want to, I, I got to talk to him and the director of this program, but Carl Long is starting a, or he's helping start a, um, at a high school, a hospitality program, or he's involved in some way.

I don't want to misspeak. Um, but it's just hearing him share the story. It's amazing. Like kids from high school. They can come out and start working as a bellman, as a, as a housekeeper. And because everyone, the art industry is so starved for people who love people and really get the job. The career path is actually really steep.

You show up, you have, you have passion, you're going to be a rooms exec, you're going to be a head of rooms, you're going to become an assistant GM, you're going to become a GM. It's so steep. And if you think about like how much money we all have spent and are looking forward to, or not looking forward to spending for college, if you were to just take that money and invest that, or even take 10 percent of that savings and invest that in an index fund, I mean, All these people that can get their career start in hotels that they're, they have a real leg up and it's, it's pretty awesome.

Steve Galbreath: So, so our, we have an over, it's a hotel called the Overton in Lubbock, Texas, right next to Texas Tech campus. And, um, it's an 1859 historic hotel. Um, the Moody family was, uh, was a partner with Garfield. But it, um, it's a classroom for their RIM program, the restaurant and hotel management program.

And there's classroom in there, there's lockers, there's teacher's office.

For Within the hotel and the students work in the hotel. And so you're right. It's a great opportunity for students to get some real hands on experience in rooms, in housekeeping, in, um, guest services and sales,

uh, whatever. But it, but you're right. It's, it's, you know, I think hotel, the hotel industry is a hotel industry where I think grit gets you farther than a degree.

Dan Ryan: Yeah, I agree. I've seen it countless times. Um, I totally agree. And, and actually, as I think about that, And then I think about, um, the secondary and tertiary markets that you're going into. to really like transform a community and activate a community. I'm intrigued by the name of your company, Garfield.

Okay, great. But the public private part, because walk me through, like, how do you, how do you find a project, a town, a city that may, that may be starved for this kind of hospitality center with a, with a convention component and meeting space? And then what, how do you, Show the leaders of that city or the, the, the citizens, the leaders, like, how do you show them what's possible?

And how do you know when the light bulb goes off in their head about how transformative this could be? I guess like walk me through the process because I'm just envisioning, um, just some planes. Maybe there's a couple of small little select service hotels. It's not really a great offering where people come in and work.

But what you're doing is you're bringing in like a full service product with convention and meeting that everything can happen there now from weddings to baseball to Star Trek to Comic Con to, and it must bring so much jobs and spend, and it must really invigorate a community. So like, walk us through your process, because I think, and also the capital stack, like, how do you find the merging of public and private where, where it's like a one plus one equals three or five?

Yeah. Because I'm very intrigued by that.

Steve Galbreath: a lot of people use the word P3, um, um, public private partnership. That, that's really the bread and butter of our, our company, is helping cities, counties, university campuses, airport authorities, um, etc. Get this asset that they've been trying to get for forever. And let me tell you just a couple minutes about what we what we do.

I mean, we I focus on the hospitality side of our business, but Greg Garfield and he's got a team that really focuses on the performing arts side. We've just opened about a year, year and a half ago, maybe a couple years ago now. Uh, the Buddy Holly Hall of Performing Arts and Sciences in Lubbock, which is a world class performing arts center, um, and we have our asset management company.

We asset manage, um, many of the properties that we've developed and we have a, a clean energy company that, that focuses on solar development. So, um, we're kind of doing all that, but let's talk about hotels because that's the one that I think we're best known for. Between that and performing arts, those are kind of things that we're best known for

Dan Ryan: And those two kind of go hand in hand, too, to

Steve Galbreath: They they they do they're they're totally different buildings, but they're super close in what their Goal is in in life

Dan Ryan: I think that they could, I'm speaking from like a New York City mindset, and I think if hospitality could have a greater influence on the performing arts in New York City, I think it would be that much more of a draw because it's, it's really not well thought out. And I think with a little bit of effort, it could be that much more of a transformative experience.

I Anyway, I don't want

to

sidetrack you.

Steve Galbreath: So, so when we, you know, a lot of what we do is, is word of mouth. Right. Um, our reputation is everything. That's, I think we've said that before. I mean, we we live and die by what people say about you. Right. And, um, and, um, you know, sometimes in the world developers a dirty word. Um, we, we act as a fiduciary to our clients.

We work for the

Dan Ryan: And for those, for those who don't know, I want to get into the fiduciary and how you're working for the city, but like, why would development be considered a dirty word? And then go into how you're different, like paint, create

the

the

separation.

Steve Galbreath: think of a commercial developer, the stories you read in the paper seem like they're greedy, just trying to make money off the backs of other folks or just not fair, right? And, and that's not, that's not us. We, we need to make money. We're, we're a for profit organization, but we're trying to help a this hotel that they've tried to have like Abilene for 30 years.

They've, it's been a dream of theirs and we help them figure out how to structure and we'll come, we'll come back and talk about this, but you know, structure the financing, negotiate the management agreement with the brand, um, design, help, help, you know, we'll, we'll manage the design of this. And one of the great things about it is with my, you know, 30 years of doing this all over the world. I know all the same architects that do all the global work, all the interior designers, all the, the, the, the purchasing agents and, and the producers of great furniture and FF& E. And so now these secondary tertiary market hotels are getting all of that, that a hotel that was built in downtown Hong Kong would get, or in, in Dubai or New York.

High quality design, high quality finishes, because that's what we know, right? So we know how to get that. And so that's what makes our things stand out. When you go visit Our hotel in Baytown, Texas. Um, you're typically there because you are selling pipe or some sort of a material to ExxonMobil or Chevron or one of the big, uh, the big oil refineries.

Right. So, you know, I think that the, the Canadian pipeline actually like ends right there in Baytown. Um, but this is a great business hotel with great meeting space and it's got a great patios, great bar. Awesome place to eat. And, and it just really, it's not a resort. It's on an island, but it's not a resort, but it's, but it's for people to do business and to meet.

And you said it. Now, between basically, I don't know, Houston and New Orleans, there was that, that's the only full service hotel, right? And that's the place now where everybody from that region will, can have a wedding or, or some great local business group, um, in this beautiful ballroom. So, so that's something that we see.

Dan Ryan: I want to go back to Abilene, for instance. So they've been trying to do something like this for 30 years. I guess, First of all, when I say they and Abilene, is it like the mayor? Is it like a community board? Is it just the citizens? Like, who's the they? And why, like, what were the roadblocks for them?

And then how did you change that?

Steve Galbreath: They're, they're, they're a great, well, um, one, they're a great example because they're a city who was wholeheartedly on board. The entire city council was on board. Their chamber of commerce was a huge cheerleader for this. Their CVB is amazing. They go

hit this CV, uh, uh, uh, their convention visitors bureau.

Sorry.

Dan Ryan: it.

Steve Galbreath: Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. So, but I mean, you know, They are firing on every cylinder they can, right? And so this group is is a hundred percent on board and then the community when we had our Groundbreaking ceremony, you know, it's there's a little stick, you know stand up front and a microphone

Dan Ryan: Big scissors. Big pair of scissors.

Steve Galbreath: get up and say nice things when

Dan Ryan: That's what you need on the wall behind you. Like one of those big pairs of scissors. I see the little, the little shovel, but you need the big

scissors. Anyway.

Steve Galbreath: yeah, I've got, yeah, I'll show you,

Dan Ryan: Okay, bring us back to the opening, the ribbon cutting. Wait,

Steve Galbreath: hundreds of people there, When, you know, of just enthusiasm, I literally, I kind of winced because it was so powerful, but they are 100 percent on board.

And, uh, and, and that's what it takes because these projects take years from the time that a city really decides they're going to do this. It is still three or four years to get it open. And that typically is a longer time period than the mayor has an office or maybe a city council has an office. So in Abilene, for instance, we had, we've had three mayors from the, the, the start of the contract to get this going, the design and construction and the opening of the hotel.

And all three mayors have been a great cheerleader for this project and all three mayors have been 100 percent on board and the city council has been been there as well and so and the community the you know much of our projects are done in a in a way where we we structure there's a city component and then there's a component of a 501c3 owning a piece of this hotel.

A 501c3 is a, is a not for profit. Um, typically it's a local government corporation. We call it an LGC. In Abilene, it's called the Abilene Convention Center Hotel Corporation. And it's, and the board of that is former mayors, former city council people, and, and influential folks in the city of Abilene that, that really kind of sit, uh, sit there.

We ask that manage the project, and we, we give them, you know, reports monthly, quarterly, annually, et cetera. Um, so, but when we look at trying to, to do that, to do a deal like Abilene, we're trying to help them. So they've been trying to do it for 30 years. What we try to do is help them first off is be creative in the financing.

How can we do this meet the laws of Texas or meet the laws of whatever state we're working in?

But

Dan Ryan: are laws in Texas?

Steve Galbreath: there's, there's a few actually.

Yes. Yeah. Uh, Texas is actually very pro development. It really is.

Dan Ryan: I was just, I was just busting your chops.

Steve Galbreath: Um, one of the things that's pretty neat in Texas that they have for this kind of project is a house bill that has every, we only, our legislature only meets every other year, right?

So, so it's kind of, uh, even years, but, um, they have a house bill that rebates back to qualified cities, their legislature. The state's portion of sales and hot tax, hot tax, hotel occupancy tax, hot and sales tax for 10 years to that city.

So, so, and it's significant, right? Um,

Dan Ryan: like a flywheel to get it going.

Steve Galbreath: it's a big piece of it. It

really helps close the gap because what we do when we do our projects is, you know, we'll start off and it's, you know, six or nine months of working and looking at The site, pick, helping select a site, helping get a market study, cause we all say it all starts with a market study.

Every project should start with a market study, especially in a, in a market that hasn't had full service hotel before. Um, there's great hotels in Abilene, Home 2 Suites and, and, uh, Marriott Courtyard's and, and, you know, they're, they're great hotels. Um, but what we were looking, what we look to do is do full service, heavy meeting space, restaurant, bar, fitness center, pool, that, that, that kind of whole, whole thing.

So, um, so it's. You know, it's, it's been a great ride with, with doing these.

Dan Ryan: So going back to the financing, so the town or the city or the local government will have like some sort of a 501c3. And then who, like when you're building out a performa of this, because the market might not be there and it's a bit of, okay, there's a vision, you have the support, but there's a bit of a field of dreams part to it too, right?

It's like if you build it, they will come. So some investors, I would think would be like. Well, okay. Well, where are the returns here? Like this, I believe that this will happen, but it might be a longer, have a longer time horizon. Like how, how do you find all those people to get together to rate? Cause that, that's a sizable, like what, just to get our heads around these types of big mixed use hospitality projects, like what's an average size from start to finish, like dollar

Steve Galbreath: Yeah. So, so, and then I'll, then I'll kind of talk about that. And what you were talking about, we call the gap. Okay. That's the gap. Um, let's say a 200 room hotel, in a secondary market, uh, entry level. Full service. So maybe it's a, a double tree. Maybe it's a Hyatt Regency or Sheridan, um, but it's a full service hotel, room service, meeting space.

Um, let's, let's say it's a hundred million dollars all in.

Um, not, not construction, but construction, development, all the OS& E,

Dan Ryan: Everything. it's, it's, you've started, you, you cut the ribbon and then the first guests are checking in your a hundred million dollars. Okay.

Steve Galbreath: So, so just, just to keep it easy and, and, you know, back in 2021, when we sold these bonds for these three, the last three hotels that we just opened last year, um, the lowest interest rates in our lifetime, Dan, I mean,

like, you know, three to 4%, uh, tax exempt bonds.

Um, so, so that's

Dan Ryan: Muni bonds.

Steve Galbreath: Some uni, some municipal bonds sold by the city, and then our sets of bonds are still publicly traded bonds, but they're typically sold and they're only backstopped by the, the NOI. By the, by the, the net operating income of the hotel. The, the city doesn't have to stand up for those.

Dan Ryan: Oh,

Steve Galbreath: can, they, they can backstop. Some of 'em will get even a lower rate. But, but these are, are backstop by the, the NOI of the hotel

and

Dan Ryan: they considered muni? I'm sorry to interrupt. Are they considered muni bonds because, or, or you said that they're tax exempt. Are those, are those, is that tranche that you're coming out with, is that tax exempt

Steve Galbreath: So they're tax exempt too. And they're, and they're, they're from that, from that 5 0 1 C3. Right? So an lg, an

a, a local government corporation, or in Baytown for instance, it was called an MDDA Municipal Development District. They already had that set up. And if a city doesn't have that set up, we'll, we'll help them figure out how to organize all that.

But that, that, that. Authority sells those bonds on the open market and they're sold to institutional, uh, investors like Vanguard and, and, and,

Dan Ryan: Blackstone black rock.

Steve Galbreath: the you're, you're 401k, right? So T Row price, everybody. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. So all those folks would buy those bonds. And so, and then, so, you know, if you've got the, what the city's going to, so you've got that chunk of bonds.

And then there's this other side, right? So there's these, these bonds that we sell in the open market. And then there's the piece that the city has to put in and that's the gap. And that's when, when you say the market is a little bit different, these hotels have have a couple of jobs, their job, job number one of this hotel is not just to be a transient lodging place to stay, it's to bring in high impact business.

And what I mean by high impact business is people that are going to come in, stay in the community for a number of days and not just impact this hotel's, uh, bottom line, but impact all the restaurants in downtown and go shopping and go do, uh, go to other venues, right? So you come into, for instance, let's say, uh, in Abilene, they have the State Sheriff's Association meeting, every year, travels around, let's say there's 300 people.

200 of them can stay in our hotel, but 100 of them can't. So now they're going to stay in other hotels. So they're going to, they're going to kind of raise up those hotels. They're going to eat, probably have one big gala event in our hotel, but they'll probably go out and do a dine around one night and people just break up into groups.

They'll, they'll maybe go out and buy out a restaurant or go to Perrini's Ranch, which is this

Dan Ryan: Or fill up their car,

Steve Galbreath: Yeah,

Dan Ryan: yeah.

or buy a burger. Yeah. I

Steve Galbreath: or, or, oh, I need a shirt. They'll go

buy, buy a shirt. So, so we see high impact business when, when Irving, before Irving had its headquarters hotel, the average stay, and these are general numbers, just to give you the order of magnitude, the average guest going in for a day trip was spending 30 a day in Irving.

Once the hotel was open and they could stay at the headquarters hotel, that, that went to 300 a day.

Dan Ryan: Whoa.

Steve Galbreath: almost 10 times. So, so you just start to see that's high impact business and their sales tax for the city on top of all that and hotel occupancy tax and liquor tax.

Dan Ryan: okay. So like in it, going back to the idea of the normal developer. Okay. There's, they're really like shareholder return driven. Now, I know you're still, you still want to make returns for your investors and for yourself and for the town, but it seems to me like, Okay. For these kind of projects with a quote gap, I like that there's, you're taking more stakeholders into account rather than just shareholders.

But that's a really hard thing to sell in traditional finance, right? You,

the the ultimate goal is to make a return for shareholders. I guess, how do you bridge the gap of the gap? So like that, that's like a hard thing to do. Like you get that flywheel going and the hotel tax coming in to help support it.

But like, how do you, it must be very difficult to sell that, to that vision to people, or you have to find, I guess there's so much capital out there. You find the right investors that have a mandate to kind of transform towns or, or, or. like 10X the, the spend of a visitor or, or whatever. But like, that's really interesting to me.

Steve Galbreath: When, when you look at, um, at what the city has to put into one of these hotels, We try to typically do what's called an economic impact study. And what that shows is all that other secondary spending that happens. And all of those employees that now happen. Because Coca Cola has to have an extra two employees to service that hotel.

And, and the The, you know, the service provider for TV now has extra maintenance guys to maintain, you know, signal and what, what all that just spreads across the community. It really does.

Dan Ryan: So another question I have is for the bonds that you're selling those two tranches, it's a, you, you managed to get them out there when interest rates were super, super low. Like what's the, what's the term on them?

Steve Galbreath: They're 30 year bonds

and, and yeah, and, and, and sometimes even 40 years. Um,

Dan Ryan: okay. So like, let's just say, is that, are you selling those bonds to the market? To use as equity or debt in the project.

Steve Galbreath: I mean, it's kind of either or both, right? Um, it's, it's all equity or all debt. I mean, it's, it's, when you look at these things, they're, they're, you, you almost can't look at it that way because the return is, is set. It's a, it's a bond with a, an interest rate and, and and a term to it. So for instance,

Dan Ryan: But you can use that money you raise for other uses, right? You're just, you're guaranteeing a payment to those people. They're okay with it. They've entered a contract with that bond, but then you can use that to develop as, or to help secure financing, to beef up your balance sheet, to, to do any number of things to do

Steve Galbreath: Well, we typically keep them pretty tight and keep it project specific and we, we use things like a third party trustee to, to kind of be the traffic cop of all the transactions in, in, in there. Cause we're, look, we're, we're working with a city or a county and they have constituents who want to know that their money is being looked after.

So we'll bring on a third party. Monitor to who, who looks at that, looks at every payment app that we're going to make for the contractor and says, yep, that work has actually been done. You, we, we do need to pay those guys. And so we try to keep everything is for that project.

Dan Ryan: yeah, well, that's what I meant. It's for that project, but the uses are if you're guaranteeing the payment to whoever's investing in that municipal bond, there's the promise of paying that back at a certain rate. You're using that for that project. Specifically, you are you are the fiduciary. Um, Okay. So, because most of the time you look at hotel investors, they want to get, you know, a 20, 20 plus percent return, but it's hard. The reason why I keep asking you about this is like, It's gotta be hard to sell that gap to the world out there, the, the prospective investors. And, but, but I, hearing that like for Irving, for instance, if the average spend goes from 30 to 300, like it's super compelling to invest in that.

So I guess where I'm trying to go with this is, okay, you've talked about Irving, Irving, you've talked about Abilene, Let's say there's another town or, or midsize city out there that has been wanting to do this. They can't raise the money because of that gap. Like how do you hear about them? How do you connect with them?

Is it, you have the mayor's turnover three times? Like there's the slow, the slow, um, march of, of like civil government and democracy. Like how do you find those projects and let them and, and And sell them on the vision that this can happen with shareholders and stakeholders of the community

Steve Galbreath: Sure, sure. So, well, thankfully there's, there's media, right? That, that, that, and there was just a great story. We're, we've just been engaged to help, uh, Jefferson city, Missouri, the capital of Missouri, to help them figure out how to do this right. And, um, there, there's a pretty, pretty

Dan Ryan: bigger town, that's a bigger city

Steve Galbreath: not really.

not really. No,

no, no. It's a, it's a small town, but it's a, it's a really neat town. And, and that's the, that's the seat of government for the state of Missouri. And so trying to figure out how to help them. Um, do the same kind of project. It's, it's kind of a starting point because we've got to kind of walk them through the whole process.

And there's, there's a pretty neat article, I think that's in the, um, News Tribune that's, um, uh, there in Jefferson City, um, about, uh, they took this parallel with Abilene and reached out to Robert Hanna, who's the city manager there. He's been a great, um, a great partner and, and, uh, and, and just all over it.

Dan Ryan: What's a city manager?

Steve Galbreath: City manager. So

in the state of

Texas, no, it's not a mayor. He's a city staff person, but he's really the administrator of the city.

Dan Ryan: Got it.

Steve Galbreath: Um, the mayor is, is somebody who is looking at the vision and looking out, out, out a bit of a distance. And the city manager is really kind of running the town, um, as a manager.

Right. So, um, but, and, and that's pretty typical in the state of Texas.

Dan Ryan: Like a CEO,

Steve Galbreath: sure. Or chair, or chairman, maybe the mayor's like the chairman and the city manager's The

Dan Ryan: The CEO. Okay, got it.

Steve Galbreath: Um, so, um, so, but they, they took this, this contrast and, and, and comparison to, to Abilene and they said, you know, Jefferson City has a, a Texas sized appetite for hotels.

So it's kind of a neat, uh, a neat article on that. But, but, um, firstly, I'd say our reputation, again, is, is everything. And, and. Folks see, folks in government in that, that town that you're talking about that, that really wants this, they, they read in the media and there's all kinds of media just for municipalities, the Texas Municipal, um, uh, kind of, uh, an email you get around, uh, every day that talks about what's going on in the state.

All of this, these projects are, are, are in there, right? And, and all these city managers and mayors, they all know each other. They see each other at, Constant, uh, municipal, um, association meetings and

Dan Ryan: Just like us at Alice.

There's,

Steve Galbreath: Yep. So, so they'll say, Oh, I just saw that you just announced you're, you're working with Garfield.

And, and then we get a phone call right from, from them wanting to talk. And then when these, when these hotels open, we, we, we see a flurry of that kind of a conversation. People want to see it. And, and, you know, we're, we're there, there are other people like us. Sort of.

Dan Ryan: But you're, but you're the best.

Steve Galbreath: I really feel like this is our niche business and it's, and it's a, it's a pretty focused piece,

right? we we do do fee development for private, the private side. There's a couple of projects that we're doing right now that are, somebody just knows about us, knows us and would like us to manage the process for them. Um, but, uh, but typically we're, we're working for a municipality.

Dan Ryan: Wow. Um, so then Jefferson City is, they talk to the city manager of Abilene. You have some meetings. Then are you, they must already have like a master plan. Kind of idea there. And then do you take that, Yeah. Multicolored the map with the multicolored blocks on it and then like turn it into a performa and a development budget and like a plan like Oh

Steve Galbreath: for instance, in Abilene, I'm sorry, in Jefferson City,

Dan Ryan: Garfield now?

Steve Galbreath: were made aware that they were going to go out with an RFQ, a request for a replacement. qualifications. And we read it and thought, you know, that's interesting. Um, and we had a couple great phone calls with the folks that were putting that out and said, you know what, we're going to, we're going to go after that.

Let's, let's do that. And so we put together a team. We were, we were actually made aware of it by an architect and a, and a, and a parking consultant. Um, and, uh, uh, Fishbeck, uh, the parking consultant and DLR architects. They, they said, hey, hey, um, we'd love to do this with you. And the city had already hired a, a Missouri firm called Facet who did a great concept for this space and just generally showed how a hotel could be on that space with a parking structure and meeting space and all that.

And so the city goes out, they have an RFQ, we respond, um, and the city engaged, said we, we want to, we want to Have Have you guys do this? And so then we, we, we look at a schedule. We start talking about getting a market study done. That's the first thing we want to do is really let's figure out we think we want this.

Let's make sure that that what, let's see how that's going to perform. Um, because there are, there's properties there right now. There's an older hotel down, down the street, an old, an old, uh, older hotel that, that still services the legislature and, and a lot of meeting space. Um, so we want to figure out how we kind of intertwine in with, with all that, the fabric that's there today.

Um, but clearly this will be the new, uh, hotel in town. It's right across the street from the Governor's Mansion. Um, it looks, has great views of the river, great views of the Capitol. Um, so it's going to be a lot of fun. Uh, it'll be nine years in June. Yeah.

Dan Ryan: so You've opened a handful of projects, right? From that, and for the ones that you first started working on when you got there, if you were to look back, because it's that, like, again, that field of dreams thing, if you build it, they will come, right? You have the buy in from the stakeholders, everything else.

What are some, what are some things nine, five or 10 years later that surprised you in, in a, in the most positive way, like that you didn't account for? from that when the environmental, or from when the impact report was done. Like for instance, I, you, I don't think you could have known that you would go from 30 to 300 in Irving, right?

That's a, that would be a surprise. Or was that in the band of like what you were forecasting?

Steve Galbreath: think it's a surprising number. I think if you drilled down into the numbers and said, okay, they're going to get 225 a night for the guest room. Uh, they're going to spend 40 on a dinner and they're going to go to the bar for 30. You do the math and okay, it's 300 bucks, but I think it just, you know, It feels impactful to hear that 10 times number, right?

Um, but, but once you break it down, you're like, okay, that makes sense. Um, and it's, and it's hard. Some cities, you know, for instance, like Abilene, they wanted to start booking, uh, more association business. They have a convention center there.

It's a, it's a, it's a sixties, uh, era convention center, but it's, it's very usable and very nice.

Um, uh, but, but it needed more. And, and, you know, people told them. As soon as you open the hotel, uh, or as soon as you break ground in the hotel, we'll start, we'll start booking business there. So, so that's, that's kind of the start. And that was the same thing in Irving. Irving heard that as soon as, as soon as you guys break ground on the hotel, we'll start booking, uh, in the convention center.

Cause Irving has a quarter million square foot, beautiful, modern convention center, um, but just didn't have a headquarters hotel within walking distance. So.

Dan Ryan: when all of your contractors and vendors better be on time.

Steve Galbreath: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan Ryan: So if you were like, If you were to think of the city managers down in, um, what was it? Bay,

Bay, Baytown.

Irving, and Abilene, and Ab, and, and maybe Abilene, Abilene been trying for 30 years to do this project. Is that, that was what you

said? And then there's probably other ones that you've worked on.

If you were to think about, like, if they were to write you a, like a testimonial, right? Oh, we've been trying to do this for so long. Like, how would they, how, what, how would you envision a city manager? Maybe not those specific ones. Like what kind of a testimonial they would write you five years or three years after the project opens

Steve Galbreath: actually have those testimonials. I don't have them handy, but uh, but I have a sheet of testimonials from our, from our clients. And we do, we get those from our clients, from mayors, from former city managers, from city managers today.

Dan Ryan: did they all rhyme with each other?

Steve Galbreath: but uh, you know, look, we, we like our city man, we like him to, to tell us honestly, and we want feedback, right?

We want to know the things that, that, that were rough and, and all three of these hotels were being developed right in the smack in the middle of COVID. I mean, we were trying to be ready to start construction and then COVID hit and, and some cities. Marched on hard, we kept going like, like nothing happened and some cities wanted to take a bit of a pause and see what was going to happen here.

Um, but they all kept going, all at just different rates. Um, so, you know, three hotels that were supposed to open probably a year, a year, a year, all opened within like 90 days of each other,

last summer.

Dan Ryan: Oh, wow. So the testimonials have not been written yet, but

Steve Galbreath: or a city that, that have not had full service hotels. So they take time to ramp up. You, you, you know, a hotel could take two or three years to ramp up to, to its full, um, kind of capacity of what it's going to run. Um, some of the hotels are, are struggling, uh, a bit to get, get their, kind of their footing.

Some hotels are, are really, really struggling. Starting to look really their performance is looking really good. And so

Dan Ryan: also, you're in the gap right now. Right?

Steve Galbreath: Yeah, I mean look a lot of it is You're getting the word out. You're getting the associate association business starting to route to you because it, it, it, you know, it goes here, it goes there, it goes, you got to get worked in. So you're not getting in this year or next year. It's going to be in year two or three.

Um, so, so much of that is, is, is, is work that has to kind of happen over the first couple of years of being open.

Dan Ryan: if you look at the success that you've had transformationally at a city level over the past 10 years, and also just like at the personal level, the people taking their first jobs there, who become managers, who kind of go off on that hospitality career path, as you look over, if you look back over 10 years where you are now, and then you kind of see the Jefferson cities out there and the, and the other municipalities. What's exciting you most about the next 10 years?

Steve Galbreath: It's, it's really rewarding to see staff that, uh, that started on a project, you know, brands, you know, when you, when you have a branded hotel, the employees work for the brand, right? So let's take the Westin in, in, in Las Colinas, in Irving. Um, you know, we had a team of people that start. and then some people grow and move on to other properties and you get to see them kind of blossom on their own.

They got a chance to open a hotel and now Marriott looks at it and says hey you're we got this over here we want you to start doing and then you get to see people that stay Move into those roles, you know, so, so you just start to see people grow and grow and, and it, it does make me wonder. I look at some people, sometimes a bartender or, or a rooms manager or somebody who's, uh, at the front desk.

And I think, where are they going to be in 10 years? Are they going to be? GM of a, of a, you know, of their own small hotel, or are they going to be at the thousand room, you know, whatever, um, because like you said, it's a, it's a springing off point for all these, all these folks. And once you're in that system with any of the brands with Hilton, with Hyatt, with Marriott, you're, you're one of them.

And they, they move you around and try to find the best spot for you and then continue to backfill and grow, uh, underneath you.

Dan Ryan: Yeah, that's going back to that individual impact and just, I just really think there's not a better time. Even before COVID, if you talk to a general manager about what kept them up at night, it wasn't like ADR or occupancy. It was like, Are my housekeepers and engineers going to show up? Is my front, is my front desk attendant going to show up?

Um, and I don't think that's going away anytime soon. And I think the more of these great projects with really, like, caring management that gets in there and sees that spark in, in everyone and everyone else can share kind of how their career path went and like what they're seeing. I mean, it's a. There's never been a better time, I think, to work in hospitality in any aspect.

I'm not even really in the operation side, but it just seems like we just need good people who like people.

Steve Galbreath: it's, yeah, I mean it is, it's a tough It's a tough industry. Okay. It really is. You know, you're, you know, when you're trying to be involved in a project, selling a lamp or selling furniture or racks for the maids carts or cleaning, you know, maintenance and things like that. I mean, it's, it's just, it's constant, right?

I mean, it just does not stop. Um, when you're designing projects, Um, and you can imagine in order to have, uh, three hotels open, you have 10 hotel deals at the stage of, you've had a conversation with maybe a city council person or a city manager and they're, boy, they'd really like to dream about this and, and that's what, I mean, I, you know, we've got lists of the people we're talking about that, you know, in five years, that's going to be a, a client.

They're not a client now, but, but, they're thinking they're on this track of starting to really think, boy, I'd like to have it. And one of the best things we like to do is don't let me tell you about me. Go call these folks and let them tell you about me or better yet, let's go out and visit the property and walk it.

Let's go see rooms. You go sit down with a GM or go sit down with the city manager and you guys have a conversation about what you want and how we were able to help them and hopefully we can mesh together. We're not in the business of convincing people to do these projects. We're, we're in the business of helping them do it when they've got the resolve to do it. cause cause pushing, pushing, pushing to get a deal to happen does not work. You just, you just don't want to do that.

Dan Ryan: If I, back to one of the first thing you said, I think it was about Abilene where there were three different mayors, but one city manager, you know, having just come off of and all three, of the mayors get along and they want this success in this project. Or maybe all three mayors didn't get along, but they all get along about this project.

There's something that they find common ground on. And just, you know, having watched the State of the Union last night, we're just like, some people, most, half the people are clapping, half the people are sitting and not standing and clapping the whole time, not on anything. I think we could all use a little bit of that, you know, we could all use a little bit more of that, where it's like, I think I said zero sum before, but it's the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

And I don't know if any way like that, these development projects that you're working on can in a microcosm show people that one plus one does equal three. And it's not like your win is my loss and my lot, my and my, and my win is your loss. I, I just, I wish that, you know, People at large and communities at large and our country at large would just learn from these examples.

Steve Galbreath: Sure. No, you're, you're right. It's, um, I mean, look, we, we, we don't get into politics with our clients and we, we try to stay out of local politics. Um, when there's a city council election and somebody's trying to take somebody's seat or wants to be mayor, clearly that's, that's for that city to figure out.

Right.

And, and, and, sometimes we do get caught. We're not in the, in the crossfire. We're the developer who's, who's trying to do this hotel and somebody maybe wants it more than others. Um, but very often this is a, a goal of the city's for so long and they all see that, that even though this is going to be a very tough road for the next couple of years.

And there's going to be times when, when the hotel is not performing the way it needs to perform initially. Um, the cities typically get behind them and decide, but this is something that's for the greater good of the city. It's going to bring in high impact business. It's going to bring in economic development, and it's going to be a catalyst for that part of town to be developed.

I think, you know, in Abilene, um, after the announcement of breaking ground on that hotel, The amount of development and permits that was happening around that side of town just started to really take off. And so we see that kind of thing. all the time. We, we also, you know, very similar to politics, the, the local hotel market.

When, when you come in and the hotel is, is got a lot of select service or, or, or focused service hotels, and they think we're going to come in and kind of ruin the market by bringing in a full service hotel. We're not. We're, we're, we're going to bring in more business. We're likely going to their, um, their occupancy.

Um, we're not going to steal from it. Maybe somebody who Who is a CEO that was staying at this hotel and now come stay here. Um, but, but there's going to be other, other folks that are coming now because of association business that weren't ever coming before.

Dan Ryan: but plus competition makes us all better as well. And I loved how you said, like, in earlier, I forget which project it was, but, you know, there were, you know, you bring in 600 people for an event. 200 will stay yours. 200 are going to go somewhere else. Yeah.

Steve Galbreath: yeah,

Dan Ryan: there's not gonna be 600 or 400. I I did my math wrong there, but there's not gonna be 400 covers in the restaurant there.

It's gonna be all the other ones. So, um, again, it's this like accretive, everybody wins, um, mindset. And I, I, I feel like somehow we've lost the way I, I, I I would hope that these types of developments at the local level would invigorate. Our citizenry to just see that we can all get along and work towards a common good.

Steve Galbreath: Yeah, and oftentimes we see this being the centerpiece of development that happens in, in, in Irving. They had this beautiful convention center, huge quarter million square foot convention center with like hotel finishes. Okay. I mean, it's really nice, but it was in a field and there was this plot of land that we were, the hotel was going to go.

And then there was this huge plot of land over here that the Toyota music factory and all of that. I mean, there's a dozen music venues and restaurants, and then a 4, 000 seat, uh, you know, kind of arena, um, live nation venue, um, that all. You know, kind of happened very quickly. Then once the hotel and the, and the live nation venue, we're going to be there, then it, then it just all kind of happened.

And all of a sudden over four or five years, there was this entire development there that wasn't there before, um, nightlife and, and shows and staycations and, and all that, so

Dan Ryan: I think, but you'll also see like, even within the US, if there's a, an area of a town or city that's going to be developed, usually there's a bit of a master plan for that. So there's a retail component, there's a hospitality, there's a, Multifamily or residential component and something else, maybe some public park.

And I find that, and I'm actually curious about this, because I find that what happens is that plan will get subdivided to all those different factions that will divide it, or that'll develop it, right? And they kind of all develop based on their own proforma. But there's, oftentimes they don't take in, um, the accretive nature of what that whole development would be.

Like, the, the The retail component will be developed because it needs to hit this IRR, the hospitality will be this one, the residential will be this one, whereas what you're talking about, or even separate from your, like those big projects that you worked on in Asia, for instance, for instance, the hotel component of a big mixed use thing China, let's say some of those crazy, magnificent, like insane hotels.

I feel like those things are never going to get, never going to pencil out, but it's almost like in a way they're looking at, it's almost like they don't subdivide the things. And it's like that hotel part will add value to all of these other parts. And they look at the one plus one equals three or five, although their real estate market is in shambles right now.

But maybe, maybe it would be anywhere else in Asia at this point, like for those big developments, there's always a lot more, but it's always, they're always tied together. And they see that those parts that don't pencil out actually add a lot of intangible or tangible value to all the other ones, but you have to have

Steve Galbreath: Well, yeah. So, so for instance, in Abilene, they did a, uh, a master plan. Maybe, maybe a few years before we got involved, called the Festival District. And it showed pretty dense, you know, at the end of the deal, it would be pretty dense residential around there. I mean, there's five universities in Abilene, um, so, um, dense residential, some retail, convenience retail, et cetera, restaurants, and, um, and then the hotel.

And so, what, what I think makes a city like Abilene stand out as the city stepped up and said, Yes, we want all that. And we know that this is really important to that. We're going to go ahead and do this first. We're not going to wait. And so, you know, we see all the time, we see a developer who's interested in doing a mixed use development.

With full service. They want that, what that is. I don't know what that is, but you know, they want

that thing. That thing. They want, they want the hotel that just adds something to their development. But they, they, they do the first numbers and they're like, well that doesn't work.

So, so they want to offload it.

And I'm like, well you can't just offload it because the residential makes money hand over fist. The hotel's not going to, but the hotel is going to bring you all of that thing. Um.

Dan Ryan: you just got to have a vision for the gap or patience for the gap, but that's where the whole idea of shareholders and other stakeholders and that gap between those two things actually, yeah, bridging that can bring the whole project to fruition. It's just, uh, it's just a hard road to sell, right? If everything is so transactional.

Steve Galbreath: it's, it is, it's, it's tough, but, but a city can do it.

And, um, and, and once the city's behind it, now things like parking lots all over our, our people are looking at it saying, okay, that's where we're going to put this development or let's do some retail here. Or, you know, we're, we're just seeing things happen quickly now.

And, and it's, it really is the thing that spurs everything on. So.

Dan Ryan: Mm. Awesome. You're in this new world, you're in this new role, you've done some really cool things over the past almost 10 years. If you go back to yourself at your, uh, early architect days, you're up all night, you're in the studio, the midnight oil, and the place and the balance that you found now, like, what advice do you have for your younger self?

Steve Galbreath: it sounds kind of cliche, but I don't know that I changed the way I did it. Um, I, I really feel like until I put in 20 years in this industry as an architect, sitting a couple of seats over at the same table. Um, I, I don't think I had what, what Garfield needed for me to come in and step into this role.

I was always a finance guy. I was always, you know, helping look at the, at the structure of our fees and, and what our labor was and all those kinds of things. But, but I was not really paying attention to the financing of a hotel. So when that part of the conversation was happening, I was worrying about the next, uh, you know, figuring out this, this fee or figuring out who was coming to the next meetings and all that stuff.

Now, um, you know, we're, we're heavily involved. I, I love my design background. I'm so glad I'm still a licensed architect. Um, I'm so glad that I am involved in that and that we have such great partners in the design side, um, that, that understand what we do. And we have kind of what we call the Garfield kind of way of doing things.

And, and we, we have specific ways we want to do our guest rooms and the way we want to do our MEP and, um, the way we do our restaurants and, and things like that because F& B is super important to us, especially in these secondary and tertiary markets. It's got to feel like it's, a local restaurant in the base of a hotel, not just the three meal restaurant

has to have exterior signage and all those things. So I'm just, I think, I think me taking the time, not rushing to really get to know our industry gave me the, the, the foundation to be who we are, who I am now for, for this company.

And, um, and I think that it really allows me to, to look at projects. and look at opportunities and figure out how, how do we make this work and who'd be the right design firm for this and who, who'd be great to do the, the furniture for the lobby and who who should do these chandeliers. I mean, we get to that kind of

Dan Ryan: And the furniture for the

Steve Galbreath: And the furniture for the rooms, case goods, and you know, club chairs and everything. I mean, it's just task chairs, um, the thousands of chairs we, stackable chairs that we buy, you know, all that kind of stuff. I mean, so it's just, it's just, we really think about all that kind of stuff. And, and, and I wouldn't, if I, if I hadn't spent the time that I spent kind of traveling, The, the globe designing projects.

I wouldn't know any of that. And I wouldn't know all of you guys. And I wouldn't have all of the, uh, the context that, that now, you know, when I take people, you know, to Abilene, for instance, they're like, I've never worked in Abilene, well, guess what? Here you go. I mean, you know, interesting thing about Abilene.

Um, when Conrad Hilton was asked to put his name on a hotel, the first hotel was in Abilene, Texas. When Conrad Hilton developed his first hotel, it was in Cisco, Texas, and it's about 45 minutes from Abilene.

Um, pretty, pretty neat thing to go check out a

Dan Ryan: Hilton's first hotel was in Abilene?

Steve Galbreath: Hit the first hotel with his name on it.

Dan Ryan: Ah,

Steve Galbreath: So somebody else developed a hotel and said, can we put your name on it? And it's still on inscribed in this, in this building. Um, but, um, but, and then his first hotel he did was in Cisco. And it's, and it's, uh, it's kind of a, uh, a great spot for, for Hilton folks to go, go check out. It's, it's a, it's a really neat place.

Really neat place. And even in just in the hotel industry, um, for, for anybody who's in the hotel industry, if they're ever in Dallas and have an afternoon to drive out there and go spend a couple hours in, in Cisco, it's, it's worth doing, um, cause it's, it's such a sweet place. So

Dan Ryan: and do you have like a, I just looked up on the internet, but do you have, is there a Jessica Simpson ballroom in Abilene? I just saw she's from there.

Steve Galbreath: I didn't know that.

Dan Ryan: Or a Colt McCoy, um, grab and go?

Steve Galbreath: Lee, where were you when we were naming all these

Dan Ryan: I don't know, I feel like I just maybe found a new career path for me.

Steve Galbreath: I can put you in place, you know, with some folks. We'll, we'll, we'll figure it out. God, I, I didn't even think that we should have had her come and sing at, uh,

Dan Ryan: Or cut the ribbon!

Steve Galbreath: or cut the ribbon.

Dan Ryan: Totally. That would have been great.

Steve Galbreath: Wow. Okay. Duly noted. Now, so now it's okay. You just change this now. When every time I get involved in new city, I'm going to say who's famous from this city.

Dan Ryan: Exactly.

Steve Galbreath: I mean, we

did do that. So, so for instance, in Buddy, buddy Holly Hol, performing Arts Sciences, buddy Holly's from Lubbock, um, uh, we, uh, we initially wanted the, uh, the presidential suite to be the Buddy Holly suite. Um, but it just, it wasn't to be, so it ended up being the Mac Davis suite. 'cause Mac Davis is also from, from Lubbock.

Dan Ryan: well, I'm, I'm just really excited. I like, to be honest, I had no idea that this existed, like this channel of hospitality and development. Um, so now I know, and I'm going to like be paying attention more to Cities, needs, um, city managers.

I didn't even know they existed. Um, and I think I'm just going to pay attention more and I'll probably learn more just cause I knew and you, you opened my eyes to this. So thank you. And I'm glad that we reconnected at Alice. So again, everyone else, like go meet people, go to the city managers, um, convention, where's

the next

Steve Galbreath: or just get to just get to know your city manager. I mean, look, everybody ought to know who's running their town,

right? Um, it might be a city manager. It might be a city administrator, but, but people should know who their mayor is. People should know who their city council is and what they stand for and, and vote.

So

Dan Ryan: An engaged, an unengaged populist is not a very good recipe for a Republican democracy. So everyone, vote. Get involved. It helps. Lift where you stand, also. And that, actually, that's the important one with the city managers. That's where you live. Like, lift where you stand.

Steve Galbreath: Absolutely.

Dan Ryan: to know them. Um,

Steve Galbreath: Lots of great ways for to volunteer too, I'm

Dan Ryan: Yeah. Well, this has been amazing. Um, Steve, thank you so much. Um, I really appreciate your time. I know how busy you are. And, um, thanks for just sharing your experience and opening the eyes of our listeners. If any, if, if anyone wanted to learn more about, uh, you or Garfield, what's the best way?

Steve Galbreath: I know you'll do it, but, uh, but we, you know, share the website, share my email address and just reach out and happy to talk. And these things, they take years. It's, it's not, we, we understand we're patient, patient, patient. Things take time. Um, but if you're thinking about this for your city or, or, or you're just an involved, uh, uh, citizen, uh, love, love to chat.

So.

Dan Ryan: Awesome.

Steve Galbreath: Open.

Dan Ryan: Well, thank you. And thank you to our listeners. Um, again, we keep growing every single week and without you, we wouldn't have really cool, interesting people like Steve on here. Um, so thank you. And if this changed your idea or perception or you think someone could benefit from learning about this, um, please pass it along.

So thank you. And we'll catch you all next time.

Steve Galbreath: Thanks, Dan.