Defining Hospitality

Dan: Today's guest is a hospitality veteran who works to create a seamless end to end guest experience, the physical brand design and the overall global brand strategy for her brands.

Recently recognized as a 2024 winner for hotel management's 40 over 40, she is driving forward a new line of hotels focused on mid scale conversion. She's the vice president of Avid Hotels, Atwell Suites, and Garner Hotels at IHG. Ladies and gentlemen, Karen Gilbride. Welcome, Karen.

Karen: Ah, hey Dan, it's always great to get reminded you're over 40. Um, so Right.

Dan: So let's celebrate that in our, in our wisdom.

Karen: I was like, can we just be 40 people doing good things, right? You know what I mean? But it's okay. We can, we can celebrate. I'm in the 40, well over 40 category, but always nice to be recognized. So thanks for, for that reminder.

Dan: I'm writing that down because I feel like, I've always toiled with like, doing some kind of an awards thing for hospitality. I thought it would be really fun. But 40, 40 people doing good things.

Karen: good things, right? Yeah,

Dan: Let's just recognize, lower the barrier and just recognize all the good things.

Karen: Yes. All the good things.

Dan: Um, well, I'm really excited to hear and get to know you, but also to hear about the three brands that you're championing. Um, and before we get into that, I want to ask first, what I ask all of our guests is, what does hospitality mean to you or how do you define it?

Karen: Yes. Well, um, and, and this is like the ethos of your, your podcast. So certainly was what, you know, thinking about this and ready for it. And as somebody who truly considers hospitality, like not just a thing or a feeling, but like, kind of like my life's calling to it's, it's a really great question, but when I think about hospitality, truly, I close my eyes and it really is a feeling.

It's when you go to, your closest friend's house, a family member's house, and you're. Open that door. You're crossing that threshold. And it's just that feeling you get when somebody is opening their arms to you, opening their home to you, offering you, Hey, let me get your coat. You want something to eat?

Want something to drink? It's warm. It feels inviting. Like hospitality to me truly is a feeling. Um, and it comes to life in a lot of different places, but I think it's when I close my eyes, it's that feeling you get when you, when you, when you get somewhere where that just feels open and warm and inviting. And I think.

Every day we're just chasing that feeling, right? In hotels of making people feel like that in a space where it isn't always people they know. So that's when I think about hospitality.

Dan: I, and, and that, I mean, that resonates with me so much because through so many of these conversations, it's one of those things where it's, you just, You know it when you feel it, right? When it's done well,

Karen: Yeah. When it's there and when it's not there. Right. You just know it. Right.

Dan: yes. And another thing that really struck me in getting to know you is oftentimes, you know, brands have incredible power, right?

And they have such a, a halo, halo of value that they can add and really branding is everything. And what's really interesting about your journey, well, there's a couple of things, but like, The one that rose to the top was that you're, you define yourself as a hotel person who actually accidentally became a brand person.

Whereas most people, they're branding gurus that are like, wow, hotels are really awesome and let me go into this and like, see how we can distill out this brand to a fully immersive experience. So like. How did you accidentally become a brand person?

Karen: well, accidentally might imply like short, like you fell into it when actually it's, it's been a long career of falling into it over time. But, um, I've actually been with IHG, so probably not a surprise now after the 40 over 40, um, intro here, but I have been with IHG for coming on 24 years. Um, and honestly, I've always known since a very young age, my, my father told me, I looked at him on a family vacation in the hotel.

And I said, I'm going to run one of these one day. And, you know, he's like, I thought, whatever, you know, grab your coat, you know, we're late. What are you doing here? He's like, but it's always stuck with him that over time from five years on, I was always trying, I was more interested in how the hotel worked than being at the hotel.

Like I was always trying to like, Peek into the behind the scenes. Like, you know, when the housekeeper would open a cupboard or something and you try to see like, Ooh, what goes on back there? Like, where did I, where did I store all of the things? Like, I was always fascinated by how an actual hotel worked.

And so, you know, over time, um, my parents, you know, my mom is a teacher. My father sold cars. So, um, you know, they're like, all right, what, if you really want to do this, let's find a path to do it. And I did an internship at the local Holiday Inn. Uh, when I was 15 and so I started working behind the front desk at 15 and just fell in love with it.

I love the, the 24 hour rhythm of a hotel. Like the fact that it resets itself every 24 hours. It's like a new chance. To delight a whole new group of people, to make a whole new pot of money, you know, to, to fill those rooms. There's the competitive nature of how that happens. Um, and so I just really fell in love with that, that rhythm of what a hotel and working with so many different people.

It was the first time. I grew up in Buffalo, New York, um, and it was the first time I was around just like lots of different types of people, um, everybody contributing and working as a team. Like I'm a team sport kind of person. And there is like no better team sport than a hotel, right? How everybody leans in and kind of works together.

So started doing that, then went to hotel school. Um, and after hotel school, I got my first role with what was Bass Hotels and Resorts at the time, which then became Six Continents and then became, um, Intercontinental Hotels Group and IHG, and here we are today. Um, so yeah, and I started at the Intercontinental Park Lane in London, was my first job with the company.

Um, And so, yeah, and so I've, I've seen lots of our different brands. I've seen the company evolve, but like always kind of a thread through, um, a thread through that. So, um, but went from on property operations into global HR, then into brand marketing. So it's been to your, to your question about paths and how I fell into branding, it kind of went through a lot of different places and spaces within the company.

Dan: I'm going to call it falling forward.

Karen: I love that. I love that. Yeah, definitely falling forward.

Dan: I also, I love that you're from Buffalo as well. And I love that you bring up team sports because I just want to say thank you to Scott Norwood

Karen: Oh, no,

Dan: he wide left or wide right? But I remember that was a very formative year for me with the New York Giants and thank you.

Karen: it's wide, right. And it struck again this year and I was trying to get to the Super Bowl again. So I, um, I will always champion an underdog is what I also say, uh, because of growing up in my formative years in Buffalo, you always, you gotta keep believing, you gotta keep trying all that kind of good stuff.

Dan: Yeah, um, thank you, Scott. Appreciate it.

Karen: We always, hey, we always still think about Scott and wish him well. It wasn't his fault. There were a lot of other plays that were missed along the way. And so again, coming down to team sport, never blame one person, right?

Dan: right, Lace is out. Um, so, I, I want to go back to something you said. When you were describing some of the exciting things about hospitality and the idea that it resets every 24 hours, especially, I think a lot of hotel, um, Owners and also just real estate finance people really love that 24 hour reset because. It's a hedge against inflation, unlike many other long term leases and all of these other things that happen. And I, and also just speaking to you and learning more about, um, Avid, Atwell, and Garner, where you're, you want, you're trying to convert existing hotels into this new, into these, into these brands.

Um, there's this whole idea of ROI, right? And so if, if I were an owner of a existing hotel, Like what's, what's the big draw to convert to one of your three brands?

Karen: So, um, and if we think about the three brands that I lead, so IHG has 19 brands now since we launched Garner. Um, some of them are ripe for conversions and some are more focused on new construction. So in the three that I have the honor of leading right now, Um, Avid Hotels is new construction.

So that is our brand that sits in the lower mid scale space. And it is all about the basics done exceptionally well at a fair price. Um, but it is really for the guest that is looking for that ruthlessly consistent experience each time that they stay at that property. Um, in the conversion friendly space, we launched Garner Hotels just last year.

Because we had Avid from a new construction play in that lower mid scale. But we didn't have a brand that was more conversion friendly that delivered that offer to your point from an owner ROI perspective in the lower mid scale, we have Candlewood Suites, which can be converted, but that is a true extended stay hotel.

So think about kitchens and all of that. We didn't have something that sat in the transient conversion in that lower space. So we launched Garner. And if I think about it from an owner perspective, especially now, um, Things are getting, I would say, better with inflation with financing, but not the best, right?

So it still is challenging for owners to get at the amount of capital that they may need in the new construction space. And if I have an asset or I see an asset that's for sale, It's already physically built. I'm going to compress that, um, that construction timeline. I'm going to compress that to a shorter amount where I can actually be open and be, um, transacting in this new brand.

And a lot of owners that are interested in, um, a product from IHG is because they may be with another brand. But they don't believe that they're getting the enterprise contribution or the strong access to the loyalty program, the loyalty guests that IHG has with IHG One Rewards. So quite honestly, a lot of our owners were saying, I would love for you to have a brand in the space that we can convert, um, because I've got some hotels that I would love to be punching up, um, into one of your brands and delivering an even stronger ROI for them.

Um, and our One Rewards guests. We're also saying, hey, when I'm traveling and it's just a one to two night stay, um, I need to get in, need to get out, I want a quick hot breakfast. I don't have something in that space from you either. So it really felt like a win win on the guest side, on the owner side and a sweet space where we do really well, um, as IHG.

And so a lot of reasons why conversions are a huge part of about 30 percent of our openings and signings last year alone, um, continuing to see a lot of strength in the conversion space, and that's not just within IHG. Um, and I also think there's something. From a sustainability perspective, right? Like an asset is there and it exists rather than just demolish.

Is there a way that you can renovate that and give it breathe in new life, right, into that hotel, into that asset. And we have found with the first four garners that we've opened, absolutely we could. Um, and so it's been great to see that we just opened hotel number four on Thursday in Clarksville, Tennessee.

So just outside of Nashville. So we went on sale in September, opened the first properties in December, and have just been continuing to bring them online. So it's been exciting.

Dan: So one thing also that I noticed and you're just to paint a picture for everyone right now, where are you sitting right now?

Karen: Where am I sitting right now? Uh, so I am sitting in Atlanta, Georgia, and I'm sitting in a giant warehouse that we have that's on the outskirts of Atlanta, and this is where we do all of our innovation and our product design. So I am sitting. Physically now in one of our Atwell Suites guest rooms. So we build out for all of our mainstream prototypical brands, as we're designing that new prototype, how it's going to look, how it's going to come to life.

We start that work here at the design center at our warehouse. And we honestly start first from like foam core, just getting the shape and dimension of the room, right? Where would we place furniture? How do we get customers walking through and telling us if we have enough space? Between the desk, between the bed, between the couch.

And then we keep building up levels of fidelity until you get to what you see here, which is a ceiling a floor, floor walls, drywall, a air conditioning unit. Everything but, but A working toilet. And I remind that of people when they come to the dinner. Those, those are outside of this room, but

Dan: Don't get too comfortable.

Karen: We have the bathroom, but don't get too comfortable within the space. Yes. But this is an Atwell Suites room.

Dan: Okay. Because in the, what, uh, what segment did you, the lower upper mids, uh, Lower mid scale.

Karen: Yeah.

Dan: So oftentimes when people stay at a lower mid scale, it's the design and the experience is all over the place. And I remember in speaking with you, uh, you use the words, it's really like this democratization of design.

And you also lit up as you were talking about it. Okay. And I, I assume that's you becoming the accidental branding person, but there was also something deeper in there. And as a lot of the listeners, um, to these, um, podcasts are designers and architects and other people who care about that within the world of hospitality.

Like, walk us through that democratization and why you lit up so much from the hats that you're wearing.

Karen: Yeah. I think a couple of things. One, um, and we've talked about this and you've talked about it on your, your podcast before, but When I, when you wear a brand hat, you know, I do have to think about two separate customers. There absolutely is the guest that's checking into one of these brands any night, right?

That 24 hour cycle that we talked about. And I have to think about, am I building a brand? That fits the needs that that guest has for their physical needs within the space, but also like how they want to feel when they're in that space, how they want the design to feel. And that's one set of needs. And you absolutely have to balance that with an owner who's the other guest.

Um, I never get a guest to check into the hotel. If I can't find an owner that wants to build and invest in that brand, we are a franchise driven organization. So it is partnering with Owners and investors who want to build these brands. And in order to make that work, I have to make sure the economics and the ROI aren't strong for the owners.

And I believe that for a long time in the hotel space, people, guests, owners had this idea that if it looks really nice. If it looks well designed, well thought of, it looks like something I might put in my own home. Wow, that must be expensive. And that's too expensive for me to put into the hotel or to invest in it.

And I think what we've done at IHG over the past Call it 8 to 10 years as we've really been fine tuning our design process, using things like our design center warehouse, bringing owners involved in that design process. Owners and guests coming in and really helping us to do that. We've been able to To marry those two things and really show that good design is accessible, should be accessible, and everybody at every price point deserves to come into a space that feels like something that they're worthy of.

Um, and that democratization is just that. It doesn't only, if I pay an intercontinental or a Kimpton price, should it look good? Should it feel good? Should it have design? We've shown at Avid Hotels in the lower mid scale space, at Garner Hotels from a conversion, Atwell Suites. Um, we've shown across all the brands that that can exist.

The two are not mutually exclusive. They absolutely can exist and they actually help each other. If the guest likes the experience better, they're going to stay more. They're going to talk about it more. They're going to post about it. It's going to bring in more guests. And so I just think the teams here, I want to talk about the teams.

It's not just my team from a brand perspective or a brand design team. It's our architecture, design and construction teams, our interior designers, every day, we're We're challenging them to hit a price point from a budget. Like, here's how much you have to spend on that mirror. If it goes above that, you gotta find that somewhere else.

Uh, it's kinda like designing your own house. I'm sure you've done a renovation at some point in your house. There's a budget.

Dan: more like the, uh, the shoemaker's kids.

Karen: You've never, you've never done it. Okay.

Dan: I do it all day, every day. And like, when it comes to my own world, I'm like, uh, I

Karen: simplistic. Right. But it's like, it's easy to go over budget on your own house too, because you just, Oh, I see that. And I like it. I see that. And I like it. I keep adding. So we have to be really thoughtful about that. And our teams have done a really good job of managing that, that, um, that push and pull and making sure that it doesn't, that costs don't go overrun, but we still deliver a design.

Atwell Suites, um, this is in the mid scale space in the upper mid scale space hybrid suites. But if you even look behind me, This artwork wall shows up in every Atwell Suites, but there's going to be one or two different things at each property that's a little bit custom to that location. So there might be a Morse code message that resonates because you're in Miami versus being in Austin, but we can do it when you do like small tweaks of customization across a big program, you're able to infuse that and you're able to help the guests get curious about it too.

So it's finding a couple of things that matter to the guests that don't break the bank, but still engage that customer and what the brand is and what the experience is. And so that does excite me.

Dan: And originally, earlier in your career, you said you were at the Park Lane, correct?

Karen: Yeah, yeah, the Intercontinental Parkway in London.

Dan: And that's, that's a luxury property. And what's interesting is I feel, A lot of brands on the, on the, in kind of like the, the lower mid scale space over the past, I don't know, five to 10 years in the U. S. have been investing in that democratizing design, if you will, to steal from you. Um, I find in Europe before, before all of that, that was, I would stay at some roadside motels and they were very thoughtfully Uh, design.

I was like, wow, this is actually really cool. Why isn't that happening here? Um, what did you bring from your luxury experience in, at the park Lane as you came back to the US and kept falling forward?

Karen: yeah. And I have to steal that falling forward, right? Never back. Um, you know, I think everything Every career is a building experience, right? So I think what I took from that experience is attention to detail. So it doesn't matter how many details there are. There's more in an environment like an intercontinental, but that experience of, um, working on property.

And my role at the time was I was the training manager for the entire hotel. So So I had to train every new colleague that came in across a myriad of different things, but it gave me exposure and experience to every team member, every department, and how the entire experience came to life. And I realized that it really is about high attention to detail and standards, being clear about what the standards are, training people against it, and then executing.

You then translate that to any level of hotel. There's just, maybe the complexity looks a little bit different, but I've taken that for me, whenever we are looking to build a new brand. I step back first and you say, okay, well, what, what's the level we're trying to reach? What are going to be the standards we care about, right?

What are the most important things based on the guests that are coming in where this hotel is, what, what it's serving to me, and then how do we make sure we can then execute those standards through how we design the hotel, what we put into the hotel, and is it meaningful? So I think that's a big piece when I look back about that time period was I truly saw.

That in order to make an experience like that come to life every day, you have to be extremely intentional and explicit about the standards, why they matter, what they are, and then execute against that flawlessly. I don't believe that only happens in luxury. Um, I think that, you know, when we looked at building Avid hotels, it was going to be about the basics, but as I talked about, it's the basics done extensively.

Well, consistently, and so we have to make sure if you're only going to do five things, how are we going to knock those five things out of the park? And so for that brand, we said, all right, the most important thing is the sleep experience for that guest. So we spent our time and energy saying, how could you take an efficient room, but really make, and if it's new construction, how could you make sure that the soundproofing was done right?

You had a blackout curtain that works, you've got the best possible mattress. So it's like, how do you show? intentionality of those standards that matter, um, for that experience. So whether it's luxury or it's lower mid scale, I think it's kind of zeroing in on that.

Dan: So this is really surprising to me because oftentimes when you talk to someone who is more focused or has come up through operations, um. And you start talking about design and there's a spectrum of people on operations, but more often than not, having done custom guest rooms, um, in the 3 to 5 star range for 20 something years, I, I'm always like a little nervous, like at the review when someone from operations comes in, because if it's more often than not, you know, Maybe more than half the times.

If they had their way, it would be a stainless steel box that you could just hose out and just had drains everywhere. And it wouldn't be an issue. Um,

Karen: it down. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: uh, because you know, we gotta be efficient and all these other things. But I'm very surprised and you're not alone in this coming from the management side, but I'm really surprised at how much you light up when you do talk about the design elements.

How, how did you. Was that always there?

Karen: I, I, cause I, I think, um, so one, I light up talking about anything related to hotels is probably that, but I do think you can balance the two and they don't have to be against each other of, um, Operations owner and guest, right? Like you can have that balance. Um, how we try to do it through design. Is like, I'll use the example, um, of the design center.

So in addition to having guests come through, owners come through, et cetera. Um, cause sometimes owners will absolutely admit they've never actually worked in their hotel or, you know, kind of done that role. So you have to understand, am I talking to an owner operator or an owner investor, right? And so we will want to make sure that we have all three lenses when folks come through, but we will also bring.

staff members from our local hotels here in Atlanta to come and walk through the spaces and just point out the things that are really small but meaningful to how they have to do their job. So if you go into the Avid guest room, cleanliness in that lower mid scale space is super important because most guests told us in a lower mid scale hotel, a lot of times there's great hotels out there, but the brands overall don't feel As clean, um, safe, secure.

So we thought, huh, how could we put in some of these, what we called confidence cues, how can you make sure that the guest sees from a design perspective, we hear you and we're actually gonna over, um, deliver on that cleanliness experience. And so in the guest room. And again, this is a value you can do when you're going in a new construction environment is you have a clean slate, right?

It's a clean palette. Um, all of the surfaces within the guest room, you can completely get that Swiffer underneath every corner. There's no crevice. So like the guest knows, I don't have to get down on my hands and knees and look for anything scary. The housekeeping team knows that they can get into every nook and cranny in every corner.

Um, you know, it's a small things, but like the guest sees that and they're like, Oh my gosh, There's nothing under the desk. Like there's no, there's nowhere for things to hide. They've completely thought about my fear in a lower mid scale hotel of finding something or something going under the bed. And like, I'd have to go under and get it.

Um, so you're kind of using design to help create some of those cues that are then Making the guests see what they, um, what they need and what they want from the experience. So, um, so we're using the teams as well, like from an operations perspective to come in and help us to deliver that. Or even something small, Dan, um, one time in one of the designs, this small side table, it was just, um, unnecessarily heavy.

And you know, your housekeeping, they come in and they're trying to move it. And they're like, how am I ever, I'm never like just heads up. I'm never cleaning behind this. Cause I can't move it. And you're like, thanks for telling me. And also cost wise, if I take, if I strip the weight out, I can probably get that cost down.

So it's like, it actually is a win win, but something that you might not notice if you're not the person that ever had to move the table.

Dan: Hmm. Um, I'm intrigued by this idea of confidence cues and I hear like using the Swiffer example and maybe dealing with weight of furniture. Um, what are some other ones that you have to, because that's more on cleanliness. You said cleanliness and safety. Like, what are some other confidence cues that you guys, that you're proud of that you've developed?

Right.

Karen: I think about again, and this is important in that mid scale space where sometimes guests can say that just over time, those brands have not consistently delivered what they've been looking for. And I say that consistently in the, the brand level, cause there are absolutely hotels knocking it out of the park, but they'd say overall, it's been tough for me to find a brand that I trusted consistently.

And that's really what we're trying to do with Avid Hotels, with Garner Hotels. I will say it's something as small as lighting, Dan. provides a huge amount of confidence. And so if you look at the outside of an Avid hotel, we specifically designed that prototype to have a corner entry that has two sides of storefront glass.

And that is because at night, if I'm driving into the parking lot, normally what you'd see in a hotel that's more center loaded in that space, I have just one sliver of the door that goes in and I maybe see someone's back there. Right. This means all the light is emanating out through almost two sides of the parking lot.

So I'm a guest driving in at night alone by myself. It's a small queue that I see a lot. I see the front desk. I see it right through the glass. I see the person that's there. I know exactly where to get to. Um, you know, we also took the red stair tower of Avid. Literally our brand color is confident red is what we call it because as I'm driving down the highway, I want to see.

I that red stair tower. I want to see that big Avid logo, right? With a check mark as the V. And I'm saying, check. I found that hotel that I'm trying to get to. So some small cues in the signage, in the lighting. Um, also corridor lighting. We were intentional about guest room corridor lighting, even in the conversions of Garner hotels.

The team will walk the space and make sure that it's throwing off enough lumen, enough light. That's it. That it doesn't feel when I come off that elevator that I'm, you don't want it to feel like a hospital, right?

That's where you balance the temperature and the lumens and things like that to make sure it's got a feeling of approachability.

Um, so, you know, there's that fine line between a hospital, hospital and, and, but when it's dark and I can't see down that, it's not making me feel welcome in an inviting space, but I want it to feel, um, feel again, like a good confidence, a good, that's another confidence cue that we use. So I'd say lighting is probably one of the under as.

deliverables in a design space. Not, not our team is thoughtful. I mean, I'm sure a lot of teams are, but you then over time get an owner or a hotel that just changes out the lights, right? And you might not notice that you've really changed an environment. So we're really thoughtful about how the lighting, um, can be used to direct, um, direct guests to what you want them to focus on, what you want them to see, and also how you want them to feel in that space.

Dan: that's fascinating. And I, I love the idea of being able to drive up and see what's going on. Like, it's almost like you're in a, it's like a jewel box, right? You're, you're seeing there it, and then you can think about your next steps, whether you're dropping your stuff off, whether you're driving around.

But oftentimes, like, I can't tell you how many times I get back somewhere super late or the flight's late, and I'm, I'm oftentimes not concerned so much about my safety, but I can imagine how other people.

Karen: yeah,

Dan: And I just kind of go through not thinking, but it's nice that other people are thinking about that

Karen: well, in smaller towns too, you know, I mean, you might be traveling in more larger towns, but smaller towns, there's less people, um, single female travelers will tell us, you know what I mean? Wanting to know that there's somewhere, um, that I can, you know, pull straight up. I can see, maybe I leave the car up front.

It's just, you're, you're eliminating any questions, right? Um, or kind of making, again, when we talked about hospitality, how do I make somebody feel safe, welcomed, um, and in a place that is for them. You know, from, from the time they start interacting with the hotel, which honestly, in a lot of these hotels is I'm driving.

So my seeing that as I'm coming towards the building and is it making me feel like I've made the right decision and it's somewhere I actually want to lay my head down.

Dan: Well, that's a whole other question, but then you've, you've solved that with just getting into all the nooks and crannies. So

there we go.

Karen: Yeah. Entire. Well, it's the journey, right? The journey of it. Absolutely.

Dan: on a, on a side note, I was just at a hotel that I did. It'll remain nameless, but it converted into a migrant hotel in New York city. And I just went to go walk a whole bunch of the rooms and, you know, the housekeepers are doing the best they can, but there's some people who just.

They're just living, they're like, it's like a single resident occupant. And we went into some of those rooms. It was pretty, there were lots of nooks and crannies okay. So another thing that comes up in this, in these conversations is really, um, okay.

I started down one path and then just to steal, what I threw at you before, I fell forward into another path I didn't know existed,

Karen: Yeah, yeah,

Dan: an intriguing thing about your journey is, aside from being a hotel person that became a brand person, um, you went to Cornell,

Karen: Yes.

Dan: was your first, in the hotel school, was your first job going out to London in the park lane?

Karen: Yeah. After, well, the first role after Cornell. Yes.

Dan: After Cornell. Okay. Cause you, when you were younger, you were,

Karen: Yep. I was at, I was at the franchisor of Holiday Inns and Holiday Inn Expresses in the Buffalo area. And that owner happened to be one of the original handshake, um, you know, dealings with Kemmons Wilson on one of the first Holiday Inns. So, Hart Hotel is out of Buffalo. Um, and He was the one, Mr. Hart, um, you know, God rest his soul now.

He's the one who like, I came home one summer and I was working in their corporate office in HR and also working at the front desk. He said, well, what do you want to do after Cornell? And I said, I don't know. I said, you know, I did study abroad, uh, when I was at Cornell in London and I really liked it. And he's like, well, You know, Bass that owns Holiday Inn, they're based there.

Let's call them and get you over there. And I'm like, Oh my God, Mr. Hart, what are you doing? You know, but it goes to show you that you never know what connection is going to unlock a different door. Um, and, and, you know, who would have thought this, um, you know, front desk job in Buffalo, New York would open a door for you For me to go from that to an intercontinental park lane and then, um, onward, onward from that.

So, you know, I say it to folks because it's like one in this, in this industry, in any industry, but I'd say this industry in particular, which is heavily relationship driven, like never burn a bridge. Cause that bridge is never down. Like it'll, that person, you'll see that person again. And so it's like thinking about how you, how you manage your own brand, your work ethic, et cetera.

And so, you know, I gave my all to that job and luckily he was willing to put in a phone call for me, um, to, to vouch for me and try to go forward with my career and, and, and I, um, was excited about that. Um, and yeah. And after New York, um, after London at the Intercontinental, um, I stayed there about two years.

And when my visa was up, um, I moved to the Crown Plaza in Times Square, so into Manhattan. And so I did about five or six years, um, based at that property, uh, before relocating to the corporate office in Atlanta, um, in a global human resources role before getting into brand. So

Dan: Wow. So operations, HR to brand. And I was really struck by something you said earlier in like, well, some of the feedback that we get and many of the guests that we have, they're on this one path and then they're like, oh, I didn't know I could do this other thing. And we all have limiting beliefs, right? We all think, okay, we're on this path.

This path is. Cut through some shrubberies and we got to go here. But there is a way to find another path. And you used to think that a general manager and you were gunning for that was the highest

Karen: yeah.

Dan: you can go, which is a great

position, especially if you love travel and hotels and hospitality. You broke through that, or you, you got out your machete and went and kind of found a different way through the, through the shrubberies.

So walk us through that decision making process. Like you have Mr. Hart that got you out to London. You, and then like, what was, what were the other,

Karen: well, yeah,

I mean,

Dan: people experiences, ideas that helped you kind of find and forge a new path?

Karen: yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's a collection of all of the above, right? People, experiences, ideas, etc. But, um, I will say it's, yes, I, I thought when I, you know, from five years old that I wanted to run a hotel. I thought that was, you know, Or, you know, what the pinnacle was of a hotel is the person who runs the hotel.

Maybe you just go to bigger hotels and bigger hotels, but that's the, that's where it stops, right? Because you are the leader of this little group. Civilization, like every hotel is its own kind of thing. And so I thought that that's what that was. Um, and I loved my time in operations. I never actually did do a general manager role.

Um, I probably leveled out at the executive committee kind of roles within it because I started to become and get more exposed to both at that hotel and in New York to. How brands, how the brand got involved with the hotel, right? Like, so I knew how we were creating experiences at our one hotel, but I started to see, Oh, look, you know, in this Crowne Plaza brand, they're rolling out a new program about a new sleep advantage program, and they have to think about not only how is it going to work at the Crowne Plaza Times Square, but how is it going to work at the Crowne Plaza, Minneapolis and the Crowne Plaza, Los Angeles, huh?

That's really interesting to think about how you communicate things that impact multiple different variables and different. And so I started to offer up, you know, my feedback or get involved on different projects with the brand team is how I kind of made a bit of that, a bit of that bridge. I also had a really strong mentorship, um, both and mentors at all of those locations are people I still talk to on a daily basis.

basis. Just this morning, I talked to my mentor, who was the regional vice president when I was at the Crown Paws in Times Square. And she's also the one who said, Karen, you're going back to school. And I was like, oh, um, and actually like, I'm, you know, kind of busy and like, no, you've got time. You're going back to school.

They'll never be able to take that away from you. You're going to go. So I got my master's when I was in New York at Fordham in adult education and HR development. And so, you know, something now where people are like, really, I use my background in adult education every single day. Like my job is about educating people on these brands, on how to do things, how to like evolve it.

So it's like, You just, again, I would always say, like, listen to the people around you or sometimes pushing you in different directions. Um, and I do believe at some point I might use that educational degree in a different way. Like if you think about a career of the future or something like that. So I'll put that on a shelf for later.

Um, and she's right. We can never take it away from you. So the world will always need teachers. Um, but I thought that was the highest. Uh, and so I started to get involved and hear from different mentors and get involved in different projects. And I saw that there was this whole. You know, world that helped lead these brands and support these brands at the center at the corporate office.

And so I work to say, well, what would it take for me to get a role at the corporate office? And what would that look like? And where could I contribute what my skills are, what I do really well. And that's how I transitioned to the corporate office in a global HR role, partnering with brands. Um, and then I raised my hand when somebody on a brand team, I started just becoming more, and here's what I would say, when you start feeling yourself, get more curious about.

In a conversation, what somebody else is doing versus what you're doing. Like when you're more curious about how Dan's going to take his project forward than yours, like you start asking more questions, leaning in, trying to get exposure to that. That's when I've naturally felt my, um, career rhythm kind of say, you're probably ready for like, Five or six years in operations, five or six years in HR.

Like you started to feel yourself gravitationally pull towards somebody else's project in the room. Um, and I started to become more interested in what the actual brand leaders were doing and how are they developing consumer insights? How are they testing that? How are they putting things in that? And so a woman on the team was going on maternity leave and I raised my hand and said, well, could I just cover for her?

And I was like the girl from HR and they were like, all right, you, you You seem competent. You're paying attention in the meetings. What could go wrong in four months? Right. And if it doesn't work

out, you go back, you go back. Right. And I never went back. So that's. That's kind of how it evolves. So I've been covering a maternity leave for a kid that I think just turned 15 or 16, um, if I look back on time or whatnot.

So, um, so yeah, but, and then, and then even over that, I've stayed in brand, but in different roles and then over the past, you know, five, six, seven years now, um, as time goes on, I've been involved in launching, you know, these, these brands, which honestly, I think. puts together a lot of my previous experience, right?

Like, if you're trying to launch a brand, you have to think about absolutely every aspect of the brand, and so it kind of Um, forces me to, to draw upon every experience for that.

Dan: Well, I think also for like, for me as a fan of hospitality and hotels and

Karen: Well, Dan, you're a super fan. You're not just a fan. You're a super fan.

Dan: I, I, well, I, I'm not, I don't claim to be an expert really. And I think that's why I love doing this podcast so much. Cause I am a fan. And like you said, it's hearing other people's stories and leaning into them. I'm just super curious.

And,

Karen: Yeah.

Dan: but hotels and you said hotels, can give everyone so much exposure. It's because whether it's brand or HR or operations or some, or Or a restaurant or a bar or renting snowmobiles or meeting space. It, they are a platform for every kind of, well, maybe not every kind, but so many different kinds of small of businesses.

And you can, you can lean into whatever. is intriguing you the most. And I, but oftentimes people don't have the mentor or don't know how to find the mentor, um, to ask those questions or they're, they're intrigued, but they're like, Oh, how do I, how do I get there? And maybe, maybe they're not as, um, wanting to take as many risks as you to, to ask.

Sometimes people don't want to ask. So when, if you could share your experience from Mr. Hart to your other mentors, like how did you find these mentors? Were you ever nervous to ask? Or how did, how did you ask? Like, what's a good, if you were talking, if you were doing your adult education class on how to find and best use a mentor, what would you say?

Well, how, what would your syllabus be?

Karen: My syllabus for that. Um, it's interesting as I reflect on those, they were, they were formal in the sense of we had a working relationship. I worked with them, but they weren't like formal mentoring programs or I wasn't like, Hey, you know, Anne, Katie, you know, Sharon, will you mentor me? You know what I mean?

It wasn't that formal, but it was. It was. Yeah. Well, because we do talk in some of our formal things, like find the mentor, ask them if it is. And, and those wonderful too. Like, and those also have, you know, time and places. For me, I have found that when I'm in a space, I look for the person, um, that I see, that I admire the way in which they show up at work, the way in which they cut through problems, the way in which I've seen them do the right thing and advance, like advance their agenda and their career.

Like, right. And I'll usually like kind of find those in those instances, it was me then kind of saying, Hey, You know, um, I'm trying to get better in these couple areas, or hey, can I try, give me a shot trying to do X, Y, or Z. So I would say it's identifying the people that you, that you look up to in a professional context, right?

Because of who they are and what they bring to that, um, to that experience. And also have, have, have a value that they can give to you as well, right? Because it's like, you're trying to learn how to do something or advance something or show up in a different way. And also people who will tell it to you straight between the eyes.

In all of those instances, they were people who also told me when I wasn't doing a very good job, or you could have done better. You know what I mean? Or here's how, if you really want to have that, this is what you need to be doing and thinking This is why you need to be going and getting your master's in this, even though you think you don't need to right now, or you want to put it off a year, like they're the people who told you.

Tell it like it is. And so I think there's also, you know, not just finding the people who say you're great and you know, you're going to do great things. It's like people also say you could actually be doing a lot better.

Dan: And then, so you've had these great mentors officially or unofficially over your years, but it's like, it's really what, what's intriguing me, who's showing up the best, I love that. Cause like you're, you're drawn to. You're kind of modeling how you want to be. But then if you were to look at the other shoe, as now you've evolved and you've fallen forward to where you are now, how are you bringing on your mentees, if you will,

Karen: Yeah. So, um, a couple of, and ISG is awesome. And, and yeah, I don't, I think I, I don't say that because I've worked for them. I've only worked for them. Right. Like , it's like, it's my career. So I always

say like,

Dan: It's like the Stockholm syndrome.

Karen: thank you. You're like, I don't like when people are like something about other places. I'm like, what is that?

Like, what is it like there? Like what is, but like truly because I have,

Dan: blink twice?

Karen: I know, right? No, no. I, I, you know, it's, again, I, I, I love, I do and it, I love IHG because of the people, and that's what, when people come into our world from all these other places that they worked. And even when they leave the world, what they say all the time is it's the people, right?

It's the people, and that's a lot of what this brings. Um, and so I'm excited. I'm actually leading our, um, America's mentoring program for IHG right now. Um, and I'm, so I'm a sponsor for that. And we just kicked off, um, last, we've got about 450 people. That are involved in the mentoring program, and we pair them up either individually or pods.

So I just had my kickoff last week with my pod. Um, so I've got four people that are in my pod, but what I said to them is like, Even in that first meeting, like just cause I'm the quote unquote mentor in the group, a hundred percent, I'm going to be learning from all four of them. You know what I mean?

That to me, we're just a group, right? We're just a group that's bringing things together in a forum where we can get to know each other, better push on things, push each other on our thinking. And so, um, so one, it's my responsibility to continue to mentor other people, whether that's formal, but then I also have just the people who've worked on my teams in the past that I still connect with.

Um, but, but I think it's bad. It's like, I, I, I know I'm the sponsor of the mentoring program, but I kind of sat on our kickoff to the group. I said, whether you're carrying the title of mentee or mentor, we're both carrying the same title because you're, you should be open to hearing and learning from what they're bringing to you as well.

Um, and, and they're then, and vice versa. So, you know, no matter what it looks like, I think there's a big part of that. That's it's, it's mutual, right?

Dan: And how many are in, so there's 450 mentors and mentees who are mentoring each other. Um, how many are in your pod? How many pods are

Karen: I, um, so I have four people that are in my pod, so I'm the mentor and there's four people that are, that are in the group that are all at a similar level of the director level within our organization. Um, and then we've got, we've got probably. A couple hundred individual one to one mentoring. And then we've probably got about 40 or 50 people that are leading pods.

Dan: wow.

Karen: I'd love that for everyone to have a one to one, but we just, the numbers it starts getting hard, right? And so then we did some pods too, which

is

Dan: then in your, in your pod, is it people who are coming from the operations, human resources brand, or is it like, do they all kind of rhyme with each other?

Karen: Uh, all over all different parts of the organization. So, um, in the, in the matchup, folks can say if they're really particular about wanting a certain matchup, um, but most people have said, you know, I'm These are the things I'm interested in learning about. So the, the, our America's HR group has like crushed it with this program and they have a whole behind the scenes technology where you go on and put in, here's what, here are the top 10 things I'm trying to learn about.

Or, and then mentors are saying, I'm really good at these three things. So if the person wants to grow in, you know, executive storytelling and communication and, you know, building, you know, building out, um, cost plans. A mentor might say, I'm really good at those three things. And then on the backend, we're trying to match the people up in the right way.

Dan: freaking amazing. Okay. So then if,

Karen: It's like a dating app, but professional,

right? Like,

Dan: how does, if I, if, There's so many brands and employees for IHG across North America. Let's just look at that. Is it something they opt into? Is that an email? Like. That's crazy. That, and

Karen: Yeah.

Dan: it's totally opt in. So I, I'm an IHG employee. I would have probably gotten an email.

Like, are you, do you want to be a mentor or be mentored?

Karen: I mean, there's general communication and then let's just say I apply then a more forceful communication to all of my leader cohort saying, this email said it's optional. I really encourage you to think about being a mentor because it's our job to continue to make the time. That's what I say to people.

You're not finding the time. Nobody has the time. Make the time because it's super important. So, so I do a little bit of also, um, marketing. We'll call it marketing, um, as well. No, I'm not. It still is optional. It's totally optional. But, you know, I just want people to think about it because if you don't, If you don't give some of your time to that, I just really think it's a big part of what we do is continuing to grow the talent, especially in an environment like ours, what is so, it's so, um, a matrix organ, a big company, matrix company.

We have people who are, some people who are out in the field and never come to the corporate office. How are they going to get exposure to other leaders to continue to grow their career if there aren't some of these channels to do it, right? It's really easy to Reach out and it's, you know, that's intimidating.

So how do we need to create some of these opportunities for people to do that? And then it's up to the person to really own the opportunity, but we can at least set that up.

Dan: And for the people in your pod, where are they in Atlanta or are they spread out through

Karen: They're actually, um, my pod is all based in Atlanta. Um, and so, you know, we, in our meeting last week, we talked about really prioritizing, um, an in person meeting. Cause not, not everybody's always in the office five days a week and stuff like that, but the team is really trying to commit to that. To how do we make the in person connection come to life for these meetings?

Cause we feel like, you know, the team feels like it's important. So of course we'll miss some people here, there or whatever, you know, it's okay. We can figure it out, but we're doing, we're trying to do that that

Dan: And then, and then with your pod, are they all from your three brands or are they from,

Karen: All different groups. So we have people from our Global Guest Experience team, people from our Finance and Performance Assessment team, somebody who's leading the voice program, like which is all of our customer care centers and things like that, technology. So it's all

Dan: varied. Okay. And then if you were to. If you look at your pod right now, like a vision of them and they're in front of you, what's the thread ties them all together and you as, as, as a part of that is, and weaves that fabric. What, what is it? You said the people earlier, but like, does it distill into something?

I'm curious about that

Karen: Yeah. I think, so one, I think the thread of the group that I have and what we kind of, it was funny as we talked, I was actually looking, these are my notes from my pod meeting last week are right here in front of me. I was thinking about that as, as each person shared, cause we just talked about like, Who are we at work?

Who are we outside of work? And what do we want to get out of this relationship? You know, for the next year is what we kind of talked about in our, in our meeting there, and it was, even though those people all come from different backgrounds, they have way different goals and things that they're trying to achieve this year professionally.

But across all of it, they really were looking to form deeper connections across that level, that director level, and also just be making sure that they were eyes wide open to how, how they help their teams continue to grow. So what I love is that they're also thinking about. How do they use each other about helping their teams underneath them grow as well too?

So I'd say, you know, a lot of connectivity, even though the, the actual work and what they're talking about is going to be very different, but at the end of the day, they're all people leaders. And so how do we work together to make sure in this type of organization, we are helping our people navigate, um, navigate that experience.

Yeah.

Dan: amazing because aside from whatever investment was done to develop the platform, like the quote dating app of it, it actually is. free to a huge organization, except for your time. Like you have to dedicate your time to it, but the, uh, the dividends this must pay as for IHG and individually for the individuals and also for IHG, it must be enormous.

Karen: I, I mean, yes, I, I feel like there's no, you know, we talk about things that have, what's the downside of it. I don't feel like there's a downside to this that only further grows. And honestly, it also helps through these programs and connections. I think you also see, we're able to really also identify people that might be.

ready for a role in a different part of the organization, but not, might not have even known that role existed. My, you know, again, it's just, it's about exposure and visibility and they're just not able to see that. So, and, and then just also like just connecting different dots across that, that helps, helps teams get their work even done differently.

So, you know, there really is, um, a lot of positivity to it. And then also just, I would say the general, like we talked about, You know, 40 people just doing good things. Like, I think that's just doing good things, right? Like helping other people advance and grow, um, helps the organization. We have a really ambitious agenda at ISG.

We got 19 brands. Um, it's a challenging environment, right? You know, in the hotel space and the business, um, we need to put everything behind helping our people. To also be better for guests and for owners in front of them. And so, you know, it really is about, it's about the people, but also is about, you know, it's gonna, it's gonna bear dividends in a lot of different ways.

Right.

Dan: I think what's really surprising about this is much in the same way. Like when Mr. Hart said, Oh, go to London and do this. It was a surprise to you. Right. But in a way. IHG has managed to bottle that surprise and scale that surprise and actually make it not a surprise, but really, how do you look inward to advance all these?

Scores of other people, hundreds of other people to help them fall forward. And like you, you found all these different paths. You're basically creating a network where you can poke through and try out other things and gain exposure. And that's amazing.

Karen: And, and I said, you know, I said before that like, Oh, I didn't create formal. I, I will say I'm no surprise to you. Probably. I'm a pretty forward outspoken person. I'm comfortable and confident to ask for what I need. My parents, I mean, this, this feedback goes back to kindergarten, like talks too much in class, you know what I mean?

Like all the, all the things. Right. So it's been consistent feedback for me. So probably as I look back, I probably was more overt and informing some of those mentoring relationships than I'm probably giving. You know, kind of credit to the story, but not everybody is inclined that way. And so having these types of programs does give people a safer way in to finding a mentor.

If they're just not naturally inclined to identify that, ask for it, look for it, like there's a program for it. So.

Dan: So everyone opt in because you're missing out if you're not,

Karen: Really? I mean, truly, you're, you are missing out. I mean, I told my pod, I was like, we are the best pod. Um, we're totally winning this pod. No, now there's a, life is a competition, right? We're winning the mentoring pod,

Dan: Oh my God.

Karen: no, you can have fun, you know, you can have fun with the group as well, too.

Dan: So you're definitely pod number one.

Karen: I hope so. I mean, I'm the sponsor.

We got to have a great pod, right? This is, hold on, like, come on guys, we got a pod. We got a pod with the best of them now.

Dan: And by the end of it, you'll

Karen: was a really, it was a good energy.

Dan: like, you'll be communicating like dolphins

Karen: Yeah.

Dan: and you'll have a telepathic wavelength between each

other. Um, so with this journey and now with all, with how you're kind of creating all these. Halo effects and, um, helping other people fall forward.

If you, I like that fall forward thing too. I'm using it a lot. Um, as you look to the future with your three brands, but IHG and you personally, like what's exciting you the most?

Karen: Oh, that's a really great, um, that's a really great question. Honestly, um, and I talked about it with my team. Week. And then also with another group that I was with, these three brands that we get the, the, again, the honor and the pleasure of working on are truly such a big part of what IHG's future growth story is going to be.

Um, so if we think about, you know, we've been category leaders with, Brands like Holiday Inn, Holiday Inn Express, the future within those spaces with a mid scale, which is such a huge, um, a huge segment. I, you know what I mean? It's, it's just growing gangbusters. Um, and, and these three brands are really at the forefront of some of that future growth.

And I think they really have carved out. Such unique designs, propositions, profiles for owners. So I think seeing them really grow in scale, um, is what gives me excitement. Um, Avid, we just opened our 71st, um, Avid, uh, launched in 2018, but opened the 71st, another 140 in the pipeline for that brand. We opened our third Atwell Suites, um, a couple of weeks ago in Austin at the Austin airport, which is Such a great location.

That's a conversion that just like, you would not even believe what it looked like before. So that just really brings so much life to that brand. Um, and then Garner Hotels, I think, you know, launching that brand, getting on sale and then having our first hotels within a couple months shows that the flywheel can really move for these brands.

Um, and that we, we have a really great team of people behind these owners to kind of launch these hotels, launch these brands, um, and get them performing in the marketplace. So honestly, I mean, that's, that's what really excites me. Um, uh, and I mean, and there's, you know, certainly that excitement behind our other brands at IHG, but personally in talking to my team and I was out with some owners a couple of weeks ago, talking to them too.

And just their general excitement about building these brands. Um, we also have a new Candlewood Suites dual brand prototype. Um, that we, we have the first one of that opening in a couple of weeks. Um, and, and owners have been so excited by that. So imagine putting a strong transient brand like Abbott Hotel, connecting that with a great, um, extended stay brand like Candlewood Suites from an owner return perspective and operating.

I mean, that is just, that's going to be awesome to see that get out in the marketplace as well. So, um, so yeah, that's what

excites me. Growth. Yeah. Growth, growth, growth.

Dan: and you said you have it open in 2018, you said,

Karen: Yep. Our first Avid opened in 2018,

Dan: and now you have 71 and you want to get to 140. Atwell, you have three. Where, where do you want to get there in the, in the medium term?

Karen: so we have 140 Avids in the pipeline. We

wanna get to a much bigger number than that as well. Um, on Avid, we've got four, oh, sorry, on Atwell Suites. We've got another 40 that are in the pipeline, but we see that brand also scaling in the next 10 years, um, in the hundreds. Um, and then on Garner, you know, we see that brand getting to 500 hotels, um, in the coming years.

I mean, so these are. These are scale brands for the future, you know what I mean? And so it's, it's how do we continue to grow them? And then Garner, we also signed, um, we've got three hotels in Osaka, Japan that are going to convert to Garner by the end of this year. Um, and the team in Europe, Middle East and Africa has been out there selling this brand actively because the conversion opportunities, not just here, you know, those conditions that we talked about from a, you know, Finding real estate, um, financing, all that goes with it.

Those are not just US trends. Like those are things that are happening globally. So there's a ton of interest in the Garner brand around the world, um, as well. So that's also, you know, what excites me. We're on sale in Mexico and in Canada now also for Garner. Um, and so we were down in Mexico city a couple of weeks ago talking to owners there.

I've got a team member flying down there this week to take a look at what the breakfast menu might look like. How are some of the hallmarks going to come to life? So, so it's, that's also what keeps it energizing is just thinking about, you know, the scale of it, not just here, but, but around the world.

Dan: That's fantastic. Wow. I did. I had no idea it was growing that much. Okay. Cool. Should have put that in the beginning of the podcast.

Karen: that's why we do this, right?

Dan: Wow. Oh, wow. Um, okay. When you were at Cornell, were you in the, did you work in the Statler hotel?

Karen: I did. I worked at the front desk and also in reservations and also on the PBX.

Dan: oh

Karen: Like the phone operator. Yeah, like that's, that's how, yeah, again, 40 over 40. I'm old. I'm an old lady, Dan,

so I would answer the phone. Transfer the calls.

Dan: what was your favorite job while at the Statler at Cornell? Wow.

Karen: Um, my favorite job at, at Cornell, I would say, I would say working at the front desk cause it was such a, um, a rich, the reservations and the PBX was like my Sunday three to 11 shift. You know, you probably had a long weekend out and you really just needed to sit behind that terminal and just take a few phone calls if I'm honest, if I'm honest, I was phoning it in.

Um, yeah. On the Sunday, three to 11. Um, but no, the front desk was great because you had, think about it. You had prospective students coming in to stay at the hotel. You had people that were coming to lecture at different parts of the, you know, Cornell just brought in so many different people for so many different reasons that it just was always like, what brings you here, which is always the great question to ask if you work at the front desk, was just, Always a different answer.

Um, so I'd say, I'd say that was probably the favorite there. Oh!

Dan: was your favorite, um, thing to order from the hot truck?

Karen: Oh, oh God. Um, just the straight up pizza one. Just the like, what would they call that? Oh, I'm, I'm blanking on the name. But yes, I definitely Stood many late nights, um, at the hot truck. Yes.

Dan: Good. Um, okay. Now, if the Karen Gilbride that I'm speaking to right now were to magically be checking in at the Statler to your younger self, uh, what advice would you have for your younger self?

Karen: Um, pay much better attention in financial accounting. I know, like, pay, pay, pay deeper attention, you know what I mean? In all of the classes, quite honestly, and like across it. It's like, you know, you just, you, you start to become interested in everything else. But it's like, pay attention and, and pay it. Challenge yourself even at, even in school, just to, to even branch out further into topics you don't think are interesting to you at that point.

You know what I mean? I thought at that point I would stay in the operations side versus like I joke, but really there was a ton of really rich real estate and investment classes that were offered. But I was like, I know my direction. I'm going to stay over here. Like, cause. It's a wonderful school where you can really get focused in and like, but I, you know, you kind of like let that out and then you're like, well, now that would have been much more helpful than having to learn it on the, on my own.

So

Dan: Totally. You should have been, like it says behind you, be curious about

Karen: be curious. I was curious. I was curious in introduction to wines. Um, and then also in, you know, I was overtaking psychology classes in the psych school. My dad's like, aren't we paying for you to be in the hotel school? I'm like, but I want to see it all. I want to learn it all. It's such a cool place. So learning how to cook, I mean, all of it.

So,

Dan: love it. Um, well, this has been a quite a surprising and illuminating conversation for me, especially on the mentor side. Like, that was amazing. It's also really exciting all the things that you're doing with Garner, Atwell, and Avid, and just IHG in general. So I just want to say thank you for your time and getting to know you a little bit

Karen: Oh, well, thank you. I so appreciate, um, your curiosity too. Thank you.

Dan: Oh, and let's be curious. And everyone else, if this has sparked your curiosity in, uh, there we go. How's that? Um, and also if just the need to take on a mentor or be a mentee to someone, um, if it helped you think a little bit different, please pass it along. We grow by word of mouth, and it's really exciting to be able to do these conversations.

So, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And, uh, Karen, if people wanted to get in touch with you or learn more, uh, where do they, how do they do

Karen: Yeah. I mean, if you want to learn about any of our brands, please go to, um, IHC. com. A ton of resources out there across all the brands that we talked about. And then, um, you can also find me on LinkedIn. If you have any particular questions or feedback or anything like that, I'm out there.

Dan: Well, thank you, and thank you for sharing your, uh, career journey and just all the cool things you're up to.

Karen: Awesome. Thanks, Dan. Appreciate you.