Defining Hospitality

[00:00:00]
Dan Ryan: Today's guest. Is a writer, an entrepreneur, an orator, and an educator, founder of numerous different companies and organizations, including better book club, the author of worth doing wrong.
He was also a lecturer at the MIT entrepreneurial masters program where I met him, ladies and gentlemen, Arnie Malham
Arnie Malham: thank you so much, Dan. Thanks for hanging out with me for a bit to talk about, um, a few important things and, and maybe if we're lucky some other important things. Well,
Dan Ryan: [00:01:00] I tend to find that what we all feel are the most unimportant things oftentimes become the most interesting the
Arnie Malham: pool, right?
Th th the strings to pull the stories that go untold, but not for absolutely well.
Dan Ryan: So the purpose of this podcast is we're exploring what hospitality means in all of its different facets. You are a man of culture. And I don't mean culture as far as like where you're from your, your, your family or this or that, which yes you are.
But also just in a company and interpersonal and how the book you wrote worth doing wrong is about culture. Where if you're really building culture, my huge takeaway is try anything it's worth doing wrong because the ultimate goal is to make everyone feel comfortable, which I think ties perfectly into hospitality.
So like with that kind of tee up, how do you define hospitals?
Arnie Malham: Well, I, I, I think that hospitality is there is around how your, [00:02:00] how your guests feel. And now it's up to you to decide who is your guest, right? Is, is, is, are the guests, the listeners of this podcast? And do they feel comfortable listening? Are they guests, your, your team members, right?
The, the, the, the saying that your, your team will never treat your clients better than you treat them. And so, and so as the leader of an organization, how we treat our team is the hospitality. We show them, which in turn has a, the best chance of becoming the hospitality that they treat other people, uh, hospitality, Might be how people react to, to what you stand for, right?
How people feel around you, your ideas, the way you come across. Often when you, when I refer to certain friends, there are certain friends that I don't agree with, but I love being around them. Right. I love their energy. And that is a form of hospitality. And so long answer to a short question, but it's how people feel around us and who we choose to call our guests.
Dan Ryan: So through these many conversations [00:03:00] that I've been having with people about what hospitality means to them from entrepreneurs to hoteliers, to architects and designers, um, there's kind of a balance between, or it's actually, I don't know if it's a balance or just like a disconnect between okay. Doing all of these things that are important that make people feel welcome, but then also.
That's kind of like at an impasse with being authentic. Now I've been to your office in Nashville, I've experienced it. It's just something different. Now the balance is you have this authentic kind of comfort and then a planned one, but any initiative it takes going there and measuring. So, and you measure everything you do and everything that you've done, but it doesn't feel measured.
It feels comfortable and natural. So how do. Beyond that prescriptive level of culture or comfort to one where it's just natural.
Arnie Malham: Well, we've, we've, we've many on this that are listening to this. Both of us have been [00:04:00] to events that they have done everything check box, right. In terms of having the right food and the right drink and the right audience on Beyonce and everything is perfect, but we feel uncomfort.
Right. They they've done all the things to get it right. Uh, but, but there's not this feeling of comfort Jack Daley, who is one of my, uh, uh, people I love to study listened to, uh, read about, uh, as Apollo on social media. Cause he does so many things. He, he coined, or he wants to toad an audience. You can smell a culture when you walk in the door and, and he didn't mean that he walks into the door and he smells what was going on in the kitchen.
He means he can just tell based on the blaze people's eyes, light up the smiles on their faces, the energy they have walking around. He can tell whether a, where they're a group of people or displaying a strong culture or a weak one based on how. The culture smells as he observes it, right? You and I can walk into any business and get a feel for, are [00:05:00] these folks glad to be here?
Do they feel welcomed by their, by their team leaders? And do they make me feel welcome or could they care less? Right. We can stand in someone else's huddle and, and figure out the people who are engaged in those who are not. And so it's, it's about the leader, attracting folks who believe what they believe, because if we attract as leaders, just anybody, if we'll just, if we put people in a position and pay them well, but, but they don't believe what we believe.
Then there becomes this discomfort and that discomfort in my experience has only grows. We, we don't grow closer to the people that, that. Share a core, uh, core values with, and, and general, uh, thinking with, we tend to, we tend to grow apart. We either learn from them or we grow apart. And if we're learning from them, then that's great because we're probably share core values that, that we can get to know.
But if we're not learning from them, then, then [00:06:00] that culture starts to get really toxic. I
Dan Ryan: love that you mentioned core values because to me it all starts there. And what I've also seen talking about disconnects is you'll see core values on a wall, but they're really just statements on a ball. And then you go to in a hotel, you go to an employee break room and it just looks like a bomb went off.
And so there's a, it's just inconsistent. It's insincere, it's inauthentic. But how do you get, or how have you seen with all the companies that you've worked with and your own, how do you get people to truly believe in the core values? Cause I, I think we took the core values out of the best of all the people that.
With us and it became this living breathing thing, but it also, I really feel it come from my heart when we talk about it. But how do you see that core values is that first step?
Arnie Malham: Well, I I'm, I'm a believer in that, the core values and culture start with the leader. And in fact, they start and end with a leader that a leader [00:07:00] of an organization, a team that is the number one thing that sets the tone for culture and core values.
And then what that leader does versus what that leader says. It's easy to go down a list and determine if those two things match up. Right. Th th that, um, I think, and I'll quote Jack Daly again. I'm pretty sure he said, if I can tell you your values based on your calendar. I look at your calendar and tell you your values, because it doesn't matter what you say, the question is, are you doing the things that match your values, that match your priorities?
so it's little things. It's, where the leader parks, it's where the leaders willing to participate in and, the cleanliness of the environment. It's, what he, what he, or she accepts. And praises, but almost more importantly, what he tolerate, he or she tolerated, right? What a leader tolerate [00:08:00] in their business, in themselves, in their direct reports and in the entire team, I think has as much to do with setting the tone of a culture than anything else.
If we let, if we let people who perform excellently slide on values, we're not going to get the culture we want. If we believe as leaders, we need to park in front, as opposed to in the back, we're probably not going to get the culture we want. If we as leaders, can't every once in a while, clean up the break room, uh, pick up trash, uh, praise.
Those that don't necessarily work hard, but work smart. We're gonna not get the culture we want. And so it's up to leaders and people say, oh, well, I'm too big for that. I, I got, um, I'm a head of the organization. I've got other people. Look, man, you still pick those people. So ultimately culture reflects leadership and that culture will define the hospitality of that company, the energy of that company, and ultimately the [00:09:00] success of that.
Thank you for
Dan Ryan: the, the super high level kind of introduction to core values for those of people who aren't listening and culture. So bringing it down into your, to you, how did you, the first time you pulled the core values out of yourself and then went on this journey of culture? Yeah. Like tell us about that.
Like, how did you pull them out of you and your team and what were your first, uh, Mistakes or wins building
Arnie Malham: culture? Well, we, we, uh, at, at the, at the peak of March for neuro, uh, career, I was running three different companies in one and under one roof, one had about 80 people. One had 120 people, one had about 25 people, but there were three different companies.
And we went about drawing those core values, the way almost every book told us to do it is look at your best people, pull their values out, create stories around that. And, and then, and then [00:10:00] from that will emerge your company's core values. And that was great. Except with when I had three companies and each had four core values, we literally, I literally was the head of an organization with 12 different Corvette.
Which is way too, too many. I couldn't keep them straight in my head. And it was hard to act upon them. Tell stories about them consistently and recognize them consistently because there were too many. Our big moment. One of our big moments was when someone, when, when, when my COO, who very important part of any growing organization, the CEO whose primary job is to make the, make the noise go away for the CEO who can then think strategically my CEO, my COO asked me.
I get this, you're struggling with following this many things. Like you walk from one division to the other, and all of a sudden the values are supposed to change. What are your core values? And then, and, and I started thinking about that. And as, and as I thought about [00:11:00] that, the next question was the most important, which was why are those core, those?
Why are those your core values? Those stories that when I really dug deep and said, why are these my core values? The stories that came out became the foundational stories for the core values for the entire organization. And he reminded me that it wasn't important that I am, that I place these core values on everyone and forced them to use them that it wasn't, I wasn't asking them to, to use these core values in their life.
I was asking them to use these core values in their work and to use these core values, to make decisions at work. If they went home, I want them to have their own core values, right? I don't want those necessarily to be mine. I'm happy if they are, but I'm also fine if they're not, what I want is for them to practice those values that are important to my leadership when they're making decisions and when they're taking actions for our [00:12:00] organization.
And so we narrowed in a heartbeat from 12 core values, which I couldn't keep up with to four, which we could recognize, which we could display, which we could repeat, which we could bring to life, to our KPIs and our actions and our programs that, that drove us forward. And what are your four right now? So, uh, embrace growth, a big deal in terms of, of how we grow our people.
If you can't grow your people, you can't grow your business. Uh, we believe that everyone has their own path to growth. We are much against me telling them how to grow, um, for people growing the way they feel they need to be their best humans. Uh, confidence is important to us to, to, to always be confident, which means, uh, prepare, prepare, prepare, um, study, be the best you can be at what you, what you do optimism, right?
No, that, that, yes, a lot can go wrong. And, and, oh my gosh. Like if we did this, this one thing had happened. Let's let's go with [00:13:00] the odds let's let's plan for the best, uh, possibly be prepared for the worst, but always be optimistic about what we're doing. And recently. Everyone. This is this my views, your views, where we live, where we're from, what we believe we're going to come, we're going to come and show up at work with respect for everyone.
Uh, and we're going to work together as a team.
Dan Ryan: It's really interesting. Uh, and winnowing from 12 to four, I remember we had six at one point and the sixth one was make fun happen. And after we were doing it for a long time, we said, okay, we can be fun, but it doesn't need to be one of our core values. So taking it out actually helps improve the culture, um, of all the, from the 12 to four, which one was, which one felt the best taking out?
Arnie Malham: Well, I, I tend to two to three. I can't even tell you what the other eight work like. I don't, I don't remember. I mean, [00:14:00] they were, they were some combination that made sense in the word. I'm sure the word sounded good. And I'm sure there were stories. If we were to just been one of those companies, we could have marched forward with those four.
I think I think four is about the max that you can actively practice and participate in. But I couldn't tell you, I just know that these fit me as the leader of 250 team members. And as the leader of those team members, it was easier for me to, to act upon reflect, to live these values, not just talk about them, not just put them on a poster on the wall, uh, and then to, and then to, um, encourage the development of programs.
Whether I learned about it out, somewhere out on the circuit or, or a team member in their growth, came up with something to reinforce these values we put in program. That made up our culture, which we called camel culture and every program in that, in that system related back to one of these values. And so it was a constant reinforcement [00:15:00] of what we want people to better book clubs.
And example of that better book club is, is the program where we paid people to read better book clubs, not the book club where I read a book, buy 20 copies, hand them out and tell everybody else to read that book. That would be them reading what I want them to read. Better. Book club is a program where people read what they want to read.
And then we recognize and reward that growth back to the core value of growth. And so that's just one program. There were, there were so many recognition programs and, uh, personally,
Dan Ryan: I want to get to those other ones in a minute, but on the better book club, I love that we, we, in one of my companies, we had, we implemented that and it was really super fun.
But from a growth mindset like that, that would tie into our core value of adapt and improve. I believe that when you're reading and just taking that moment, if it's five pages, 10 pages a day, whatever, it's allowing your brain to work in a different fashion, it gives it for me. It gives me other insights.
It helps me [00:16:00] connect dots on other things that are happening and it just helps me grow. So I think that we don't read enough as a society as a world. I think the world would be a better place. If we all read five or 10 pages a day, I think that if everyone read five or 10 pages a day, at least the world would be a much better
Arnie Malham: place.
Yeah, yeah. Perspective is everything. And we don't read enough as a society and we're reading less and less. And, and it's a sad, the number of people who choose not to read, they can read, but they choose not to. And so we, for years, I tried to get people to read by buying them books and telling them to read the last book.
I read my, I wanted my last book to become their next book. And that doesn't work. It's crazy how much we practice it as business people, but it doesn't work. And what we found did work is if we stop telling people what to read and just, and, and simply commit to recognizing and rewarding them for reading anything that makes them a better human, a better parent, a better spouse, better with their [00:17:00] finances, uh, less anxiety, more physically fit, not to mention strategy, hiring, marketing, all the typical businesses.
Biographies historian history, uh, related books, any book, a person absorbs makes them a better human. The only difference between you and I now in five years from now are the books we read and the people we meet and make Batman making the books we read. Part of that. We make ourselves better five years from now as leaders, we can make our teams better by recognizing and rewarding them for reading better book club puts the power of that in their hands.
And all the leader has to do is say, yes,
Dan Ryan: the books we read and the people we meet are the only things that will make us different between now and five years. I feel so bringing this back to travel for me, I've read so many more books through this pandemic, but the people that I've been meeting have been, those [00:18:00] collisions have been so reduced.
And it's it's really, I dunno, it's just been really painful for me. How are you finding.
Arnie Malham: Well, the, you know, it's, there's pros and cons because on one hand I've had more conversations via, via zoom than I would've had. In-person I'm no longer limited to where I could go grab coffee. And so I've had people coffee, I've had virtual coffee with people around the globe, around the country, around the globe.
And so in that way, I've actually probably seen more people, but there is a, there we do miss that human face-to-face body, seeing each other's body language sort of contact. And so I think it's, it's pro and con I'm hoping I'm optimistic that we're going to come out of. Pandemic with a renewed sense of appreciation for what we lost, but also a knowledge of how to connect with people that we used to be cut off from.
And so I, I was [00:19:00] one of those that fought zoom for like, I don't want to be on zoom. I can't focus on what I'm doing. I'd rather just talk to people with my head down. Um, I feel like I'm pretty good at zoom now. So I, I have, I've grown in that talent and the pandemic was a high price to pay. But, um, if you, if we, as humans, don't emerge from the pandemic with new skills, with a new outlook, then it's been an awful waste of a lot of energy.
Dan Ryan: Yeah on the zoom front I've had, I think you're right. I've had more meetings on zoom and met a lot of people. Like for instance, I was telling you, I was just on the phone with Andrews or on a zoom with Andrew Scarlet from natural email. You met in the past and I've met him for the first time through an introduction.
And we had a great conference. I want to, I don't consider a meeting someone until I'm like breathing the same air as them and maybe with the, with COVID right now, it's hard to breathe the same
Arnie Malham: air as everyone. It's a little scary and you know, everyone's on a, everyone's on a different path, but we [00:20:00] have to embrace, right.
This is part of. When I relate to my core values, this, this confidence that we're going to learn from, from the experience, the optimism of knowing that we can still create a, you and I can create a relationship over zoom that is maybe it's 80% as good as meeting in person. And that leads somewhere. And then that, you know, so as we apply our own personal core values, so this pandemic, again, it's a, for those out there listening, if you said, look, I've, I've not taken this opportunity to learn, grow, or experience.
It's not too late. Like you can still, we, we, there is still time to say, I want to start doing X and start walking towards that. Whether it's books read, whether it's podcasts listened to whether it's people met, whether it's a course taken a language learned. I mean, there's so many opportunities to, to redirect that our time of day into something that, that improves us as you know,
Dan Ryan: I completely agree.
And for all of the different innovations that [00:21:00] you've tried and some succeeded, some failed on the culture front, if you were to take all of your four core values and do all the programs that you've built under each of them does one of your core values outweigh the others as far as innovation and culture,
Arnie Malham: you know, it's tough because the, you know, the that's a tough one.
I, you know, I, it would be like if we had a contest, you said on a, you got to give up one of those values, you got to get to three and everyone feels this. We feel this way about a lot of things in our lives. Like it would be tough because while as we, we tend to push towards like growth, you can put a lot of undergrowth programs and programs that help people grow.
That that's easy. It's harder to find programs that recognize optimism, but optimism may be the one thing that keeps the team on track and get through a tough period and a breakthrough that you never look back and go, oh, if John wasn't optimistic, we hadn't ever done it because you kind of forget it.
But just knowing that that's an important attribute to look at the positive side of things. You know, I, [00:22:00] speaking of that, when I'll do derail on this one a little bit, like optimism is something we use to develop our, uh, we used to call it policy manual. Now our company guidelines, right? Our policy manual used to be a bunch of rules for things that happen when someone may do something wrong.
And, and all of a sudden, we, we, every time somebody does something wrong, we develop a rule for it. Or we, someone says, well, someone could do something wrong. We develop a rule for it. And we end up with this policy manual that has more pages than we have people it's crazy. And no one reads it, no one understands it.
And so we, we, we threw the concept of optimism shredded at one day. We're not gonna. Rules and policies for things that go wrong. We're going to write guidelines for things to go, right? And we reduced a 39 page policy manual to like three pages that we display on the wall in terms of how we want to behave.
And instead of having a rule to prevent us from getting to have conversations, we had guidelines that allow us to have conversations about what [00:23:00] our expectations were. And so just looking at things through an optimistic framework gives you a very different perspective. And so that's, that's, that's hard to quantify and put in a box.
Glad we had it though.
Dan Ryan: I recently interviewed Andrew Benioff. Who's the founder of the independent lodging Congress. He was the, he was a manager, I think the Nico or the pan Pacific in Seattle. And there was a gift shop inside. And one of, and it was a different business, but one of the guests went downstairs to buy a pack of cigarettes and the, the, he wanted to put it on his room.
And the, the guy at the desk said, oh, we can't charge it to your room because it's a policy. So Andrew came over and fixed it and the guy was really unhappy, but then became happy. And this whole idea of policy versus guideline is a very powerful concept, especially in hospitality, because when we're all traveling, I don't want to be told that it's our, not our policy to do this.
I want to be told, oh yeah, we want to make you happy. So let's figure it
Arnie Malham: [00:24:00] out. Yeah. It's in the, in the mindset, but also a policy or harsh rules. It takes away the responsibility, the opportunity, or the better word for the team member, team member to use their brain. Because when there's a rule for something.
You know, no rubber bands in the bathroom. Like I said that, but it's like
Dan Ryan: a rubber band in the bathroom.
Arnie Malham: They just say, they just say, I don't have to think about it because it's a rule. But when our guideline is that we want to make guests happy and we want to accommodate as long as it doesn't interfere with, with, with, with the greater running of our world, then that that team member gets to think about, well, why do they need the rubber band?
And, and is there a better solution to the problem? Is there a different way I can make this person happy than just hearing a rule? So. We believe the less rules? [00:25:00] No, no rules. Is that like literally zero is the goal and guidelines gives our people, the autonomy, the ability and the, and the, um, really the fun in solving problems as opposed to relying on something.
I
Dan Ryan: think if you're hiring and firing according to values, if you're, if you have core values that are dictating your guidelines. You really could be in a place with no rules, if everyone is of the same kind of cult cultural DNA.
Arnie Malham: Well, as you know, we've meant to, we went to, you know, we had, we had unlimited time off.
We had, uh, no dress code, no, uh, hours, you know, it was not what, and we ran a call center and we ran an ad agency and we ran a support group and we did it all through freedom as opposed to restrictions, because we were clear on our values in our programs. And I also [00:26:00] remember
Dan Ryan: because of, of your clients, you were doing mostly advertising, I think for, for lawyers.
Correct. So when you have, when you have created. Um, advertising who are writing copy and graphic people in Nashville. Maybe they might see that as, oh, that might be a boring person to create this stuff for, to create this content for. But I feel like you solve for that to be able to recruit the best talent by having maybe not no rules, but just being in that place where everyone is energized and.
Arnie Malham: Yeah. And it's not that they might think that's not a cool thing. They did think that's like, Hey, you're a talented graphic designer. You're going to come work for a personal injury lawyers or cross the countries, sign me up. Like that's not what's happening. Right. We, we had to overcome a neg, a negative, uh, connotation about personal injury lawyers.
We had to create a culture that was worth working at remarkable enough to talk about. And, and instead of hanging [00:27:00] our hat on the people, by the way, personal injury lawyers do an amazing job of keeping our country, our people, our families, our team members, safe. And, and I'll just stop a minute and say, never take anything I say to disparage personal injury lawyers, because when you or someone in your family needs the personal injury lawyer, You need a personal injury lawyer.
You're not like my cousin's friend, who's a tax accountant. Who's going to help me, like, do you need a personal injury? They know what they're doing, but it's hard to initially track people to that until they've seen and applauded for Erin, Erin Brockovich or seen civil action or watched, or, or cheered for lawyers who are for the little guy, it's hard to pull them into that mindset.
We pulled them in by creating a culture that was remarkable, worth remarking, about worth talking about it. It, it ranged from how we treated the ups guy when he delivered packages to what the, uh, kitchen looked like when, when we had tours, which we did constantly, as you know, uh, like everything about.
What the parking lot was [00:28:00] like, what the building looks like, how we, uh, you know, the energy in the building, all of that. When someone, if we get someone in our building, then they, the, the folks that had that match, that energy, wanting to be a part of what we create.
Dan Ryan: I mean, I could smell it when I walked into your office or junior building it, it was palpable.
It was real. And then I know you talked about the bat being no rubber bands in the bathroom. This is an example. But going back into the bathroom, you would even say you would drill down to what was the most popular or most comfortable toilet paper that we would all use. And then you would measure responses and adjust
Arnie Malham: accordingly.
Yeah, we, we, uh, Lee, when we switched from the commercial grade toilet paper that you get typically from your commercial suppliers, we went to Sharmane super soft, like. That's a win. And then you think about it as like, why wouldn't you have Sharman in your bathroom? It's like, that's, that's a big deal. And so, and so it's, those are the littlest things, right.
But the fact that we would [00:29:00] stop and, and, and bring in the best toilet paper for our people, because like, it's so silly, but it makes a difference. It's the little things, and it's the same hook, throw it back, Ryan back right back, Dan, right back to you on the travel industry, you walk in a hotel room, uh, and they can't do a lot.
Right. But if they get the little things, right, it makes you feel it not, not just important or not just a welcomed, but also important and known like, if someone like everyone wants to be norm, everyone wants to walk into the bar and people say norm, right? And so we, hospitality does that. And so we did that by saying, this is who we are.
And if this, if this looks like who you are, then we want to talk to you about being on our team. Businesses do it all the time. How do we make people feel like they're where they belong and where people know their name, their likes, their wants, all that stuff.
Dan Ryan: So that, that brings me on to, you know, coming back to hospitality and making others feel [00:30:00] comfortable.
Right? If you were to look at to the smallest initiative, not the toilet paper, cause we've already spoken about it, which big initiative for your business. Every, every business is totally different. I get that. But which big initiative had the largest impact on making your team feel comfortable and at home and which little, um, program that you guys developed had the biggest impact?
Yeah.
Arnie Malham: And, you know, culture is not a destination, Dan. It is a journey. And even when I left, uh, I exited the company a few years ago. It's still going strong and practicing all of our, my crazy, crazy bike magic. Uh, and I'm still, and I'm still a huge fan supporter. And, and, and I consider myself a team member, but I'm not as much on the team anymore.
Um, but love what they've done, but it's a, and we, when I left, we still weren't doing it perfectly. We were still getting things wrong on the way to getting them right. It, every year we would have [00:31:00] a program that we would stop because it just didn't quite have the right magic it did when it started, but we would always have another two or three going online to sort of take its place.
So it is a constant evolution. I will tell you that here's, here's where I'll go with, with this. A little thing we did was we sent birthday cards with a $50 gift card inside to the children of our team members. And it arrived at their house in their mailbox with their name on it. And it said, happy birthday from where your mom or dad works, you know, enjoy.
Now you go what's, what's the point with that? Here's the point? That's a positive, familiar conversation at the dinner table the next day, right? It is not, uh, I hate my work, my mom or daddy. Why are you gone all the time, mom or dad? Why, why, why are you working so late? It's all of a sudden the children have a reason to like their parent's employer [00:32:00] and that's a positive conversation as opposed to a negative one.
We do the same thing on the employees. Uh, uh, if they have a significant other, we do it for their anniversary. And of course we do it for the, for the team member themselves. We're creating positive conversations at home about work. That's a little thing, but it makes people feel appreciated and welcome.
Right? I don't know. On a big scale, I would say the number one thing we did is we let team members recognize team members. And so we had a program where, where anyone on the team could send in a recognition, a core value recognition for anyone else on the team. And we would gather those and then announced 10 at the, uh, monthly all hands meeting where we not just said, Dan Ron was recognized.
We say, Dan Ryan was recognized for exempting, uh, exemplifying this core value by doing this action and everyone cheers for Dan in that moment now. I look, it happened every month [00:33:00] and in 10 people did it, but everyone got a chance to not just feel special by getting the love, but more importantly, 150 other people got to cheer for Dan and that made them feel good.
And so it's about creating that sense of family within your organization. And by the way, I was a number one cheer, and my partner was the person that gave that person a, you know, probably inappropriate but appropriate hug at the time. And we also let them pick an envelope. We had 10 envelopes, uh, that they would, we would fan out and it, eight of them had a $10 bill in it.
One of them had a 20 and one of them had a hundred. Did they would pick one as, as, as part of that recognition. And then later they would all open at the same time to see you got the a hundred, these are moments they remember and associate and put in, in the sort of the brain bank of positive endorphins about who I work with, what I do and the people that I work for.
Thank you
Dan Ryan: for sharing that. I want to go back to the smell when you [00:34:00] walk in, you can smell it.
Arnie Malham: Sometimes you got to bake some cookies. We did that at times. We would put, we had a kid turns come in, uh, children, we have, because we kids were welcome at, at, at the office. We had, we had kids and dogs were, was friendly environment.
We had three rules. Uh, don't let them, uh, play with people that don't want to play with them. Uh, keep them close. Um, and, um, I can't remember the third one, but they were the same for each three. Like, like you can bring your kid or your dog. And what we found is no one brought people only brought disruptive kids or dogs once.
Like they never, we never had to manage it or deal with it and they would never do it again. Yeah. The guideline was just don't let them just serve other people. Like, just be cool. So we would put them to work, but often that we'd have them go make cookies if they were old enough and nothing. You were kidding about smelling a culture, but you put chocolate chip cookies in the oven.
Uh, you know, you got three hours of good stuff. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: I interviewed Lauren Brill castle who has a company called sweet Loren's because to me cookies make, [00:35:00] for me cookies, make my, anywhere. I am smell like home and it makes me incredibly comfortable. Um, when you think about that idea of smelling, so aside from cookies, you walk in and you can like feel that you're in this great culture, um, from the time that you greet someone coming into your old building, um, was, was there a scripted way or a coach way to, to do that greeting and meeting?
Because one of the topics that keeps coming up is like, okay, the check-in process of a hotel. Okay. Yeah. You have to say my name three times, but what does that mean? Like, you're not really connecting with me on a, on a, on a way you're not making me feel comfortable. So how did you make people feel comfortable upon walking into
Arnie Malham: your business?
Okay. These are three things. Three things we did. One is that there were people that we knew were coming, right? That's a, that's a list. There are people that pop in. We have no idea who they are or why they're there. And then there are people who come in sporadically. These are the delivery people, the post, the [00:36:00] people who we knew at some point in the day are going to walk in the door.
We just don't know exactly when, right. Those are three different categories of people. And so for us, it was, it was, you have a list of people, you know, and those people are agreeing. And we know when they're coming. So those people are greeted by name. Often their name is on the board behind them. They, they are made to feel that they were expected and they are welcomed in that.
Is there anything we can do to make, like from, from the moment they walk in, uh, and it's not just the receptionist that knows it, like anyone that would be floating around that area is going to welcome you as a, as a known guest. That's number one. And sometimes those guests aren't necessarily all they can be in the lobby for a few minutes.
And during that time, as often when one of the other two categories walks in, not the ups guy walks in and he's someone that has been in before we know him, we're going to offer that. We're going to, we're going to greet the ups driver by name. Uh, in most cases, we're going to offer them a water. We're we're gonna offer them, uh, any, any snack that we [00:37:00] have.
Like we're gonna treat the ups driver. When I say ups driver, I mean, Any delivery person as if they just walked in what we consider our risk, because we want them to go. I literally, our goal is for them to leave and go tell someone, I can't believe how well they treated me now. I also want the welcome guests to see that I want them to see that we treat everyone back to core value with respect, right?
And then there's the wandered in. We have people wandering because they they're in the wrong building. We have people wander in because they need change for the meter. We have people wander in because, uh, they're looking for a friend that works here, but the friend doesn't know they're coming. We, uh, treat those people as well as we treat number one, we obviously not by name.
We have quarter stacked up for the, for the parking meter, someone wanders in and says, oh, you say, just take the boarders, take whatever you need. Right? When, when if someone walks in looking for someone, but they're a little lost, we will stop and help them. [00:38:00] The guests that are there. See that. And they're like, what, what drug are they on?
Like, why are they being so nice? We respect everyone. We taught back to our core values. It makes everyone, it's just like, when you're cheering for someone else, you actually feel better than they do. It's the same in the lobby. And so we want everyone to feel that way I've been in line at, in hotels. And that you can tell the person who's been trained to pay specific attention to the person they're talking to, but they were ignoring the Mooky out of me and the rest of the people online.
Like how hard would it be? Just to, just to give us a little acknowledgement, say, look, I know the line's long. I'm going to spend time with each person, but we will be with you in a minute. I just relax a little bit. Right. Every single time. You're so like when I get up there, you're going to be into me too.
And I appreciate that, but I'm over here now. Right? So I think, I think we see how people treat others and that's, we're going to, we judge them places more on [00:39:00] that, that how often. Of all of the
Dan Ryan: initiatives that you and programs that you came up with. The thing that I love the most is that, okay, you wrote a book on it.
You're really innovative, but it's not like you're the mastermind behind all this. You've created a culture where the whole team can come up with that idea of the stack of quarters for people coming in. And how, how do you facilitate those great ideas from the cultural. And I guess you're going to go back to value, but what value is it and how do you, how do you capture those ideas and try them out?
Arnie Malham: Yeah. I think that, I think the answer to this is as a leader, look, we start businesses and we do it the way we were taught to do it, which is hard work and it's all us and it's very important. And we, and we learned to say no, but as we transition into leading a team, we have to learn to say, yes, Like that's that the answer is yes.
Tell me more because it's was, as soon as we start saying, [00:40:00] no, we start shutting down people. Why am I even trying to lie? I'm even thinking if we're not, it's one thing for us to be willing, to get things wrong on our way to getting it right. The true mark of a leader that I had to learn over time. And I didn't have this talent for years.
Like half my career, I was terrible at this. And then the other half, I kept getting better and better at it, which was the, a tolerance, the ability to patients to let other people get it wrong on their way to getting it right. We learn our way when we get lost way faster than when then when we know where we're going.
And when someone's telling us where to go, like if we're listening to our, to our, to our, to our, uh, what do you, when you're driving and you have the maps. Ways, like we were listening to the ways we have no idea where we are in, in the old, before ways. You'd go to a new city, you get lost, you figured it out in about two hours.
You figure out the whole city because you've got to figure it out. And so we have to do that with our teams. [00:41:00] Our teams are more valuable to us when they figure things out, way more valuable than when they're told what to do. The key to leadership is allowing people to find their way and to
Dan Ryan: find your way and figure it out or requires failure.
And I've always been a believer that failure is just unfinished learning.
Arnie Malham: Yeah. But you, as a leader, we have to say yes. Tell me more. Yes. Tell me more. Yes. Tell me more or show me more like if you don't want to be and not just yes. Show me more. It's okay. And so it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a shift from no, we've tried that.
No, I've already thought of that. No, that'll never work to yes. Tell or show me more and let that play out.
Dan Ryan: You mentioned checking into a hotel where you're standing there. They're not looking at you as a, it's just a, such a simple tweak as a bad experience of hospitality. Thinking about a hotel or a restaurant, what is the best experience of hospitality [00:42:00] you feel that you've experienced?
Arnie Malham: Um, you know, um, so much can be said for, um, the smile, the first smile you get from anyone on the team, how long that takes, uh, when you walk in your room, is it musty or clear or crisp? Right. I know that's hard. That's a little harder to control. And then the last one is on exit. Uh, is it, is it Sanada like SIA or is it, is it some level of engaging.
Right. And so I guess, you know, just like with experiences, we often don't remember the middle, but remember the beginning and the end. And so what's that first impression. And then what's that last impression? I think that last impression is where a lot of places get it wrong. Again, like they're there, they're already read, they're already focused on the incoming and they're, they're not really paying attention to the outgoing.
And so those would be the [00:43:00] three points where I felt welcomed and appreciated. I'm sure there's many, many more. And then
Dan Ryan: in the ID going with the motif of worth, worth doing wrong, um, oftentimes the things that the failures are the wrong deliveries of hospitality or culture, culture, or comfort, even though they're tried they're wrong, whether it's an initiative or an experience that you're going through, oftentimes those negative experience completely changed your
Arnie Malham: path.
Dan Ryan: So what is one of those really awful experiences of hospitality or culture that really. Changed your life arc and got you on the megaphone and on the, on the circuit that
Arnie Malham: you're on. Well, I, you know, I'll relate it back to John did Juliet. She's, I'm a big fan of, and by the way, there's in my book, I reference a reference dozens of people that, but not for, I wouldn't have schmuck.
Like they, they, they were the teacher on my path when I needed them. Other [00:44:00] than John, whose customer service, uh, uh, uh, guru out of Cleveland.
Dan Ryan: He spoke to us at EMP as well. I think the same
Arnie Malham: year that you did or John's, uh, you know, he's written several books and he is always, I think he's coming to town next week.
I got to connect with him, but he, um, he was in town. I had him in to speak to our clients. This is many, many years ago, and he's talking to him about their customer service. I'm half listening because he's the speaker, I'm the organizer of the event. I have all my clients in and he's talking to them and he was talking to them about customer service and he was trying to help them take away the excuses.
And at the same time, I'd been in business about 10 years and I've been growing my business and I've grown my business to frustration. Like I had, I had people, I couldn't that they weren't following what I expected of them. I had way too many cons to handle. I was, I was that typical frazzled, pre E O C E O, trying to run a company like totally frazzled, totally underwater had no idea how it was going to get out of [00:45:00] this and, and had, but knew enough to know that I didn't have the culture I wanted.
Right. I, I, I didn't go into business that way. I went into business thinking I'm going to have the greatest company ever when it ended up with after 10 years was, oh, like, what am I going to do? And I'm literally thinking about that as you speaking. And he said three words, he said, culture reflects leadership.
And I said, and, and it just, they just hit me that, that every problem I had was, was pretty much related to. Right. The right people doing the right things at the right time. And that guess who their leader was me. That was the moment when I realized it's not them. It's not my team. It's not my clients. It's not the industry.
It's not my competitors. It's not my landlord. It's not my it's it's me. And if I don't have the culture, I want, it's not on any of those people. It's on me to start making those changes. [00:46:00] It took a long time to figure out it wasn't a destination, but a journey. It took a long time to figure out you got to do a lot of things wrong to get it right.
But it was that moment, really when I didn't know what I was going to do with this thing I created, uh, that I had to figure out that the only way out was through the right leader and. The mirror was looking right back at me. It's funny.
Dan Ryan: That aha moment for me with respect to EO was, uh, Verne Harnish was here in New York doing a, a big all chapter presentation.
And he went over that accountability chart. And look, I had people who were doing sales and finance and project management or operations, but when he said, okay, who are the right, your org chart? And then who's accountable. And he talked about what accountability means. And I just, it was my name and every single box and I just shut down and I just was like, oh my God.
And that was just a light bulb that went off for me and set me off on this whole other path. Yeah. And how we're talking [00:47:00] right
Arnie Malham: now. Well, EO, um, for those that aren't familiar entrepreneurs organization, a place for entrepreneurs to go and learn from other entrepreneurs, as opposed to be stuck in your own little box, uh, that, that the EO is unlocked so many paths for me in terms of growth, but it took me from being trapped in a business to, to, to being rewarded by that business.
And by being able to reward so many of our team members for growing with it, uh, it just changed everything. And it's these little moments of aha that you can't learn at once, right? That no, no matter where you are in your career path, you just can't learn anything at once. But when you, when the student is ready to teach her often appears, it appears through mentors.
It appears through books, it appears through podcasts. It appears through blogs, but we have to be open to that. We have to be open to that growth, right? That ability to be better act better, do better. Uh, and that optimistic op uh, the optimistic attitude and confidence that better is within, within us because.
Dan Ryan: And being open to that growth is also just that first step of [00:48:00] vulnerability and just being able to open and hear and see and share and just be comfortable. And EO, for me, it just provided an amazing, um, just safe space to be vulnerable. And it launched me on this whole path.
Arnie Malham: It's a place we get used to saying, I have no idea what I'm doing.
We get used to saying it in a trusted group. And then it gives us more power to say it in front of our teams in front of other clients, in front of her, in front of other people where we really need help. And in front of people who can give us that help. But for years, I wasn't wanting to say that. And if you're not willing to say it, then you're not willing to accept it.
And it just sort of spirals.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. That metaphor of being trapped in a business is just, it's so powerful. But also there are the tools and the people in the communities that can help everyone get out of that. And by taking that first step, so kind of bringing it into. Present tense and focusing if you think about pandemic aside [00:49:00] or as we're coming out of this, but like really what's keeping you up at night now.
Arnie Malham: Yeah. But that's, that is such a great question. By the way. That's the question your COO should be asking you as a CEO or if you're a CEO, that's the question you should be asking your CEO every. Like what's keeping you up at night because that's
Dan Ryan: another, by the way, that what you're saying right. There is another EO Nashville connection with Debbie who runs the master key executive program.
Right. That's like, shut the noise down. What's keeping you up at night, that meeting. Yeah. But what's keeping you up at night. This Nashville connection is very strong right now.
Arnie Malham: You know, I am, uh, I exited three companies in 2017, 18, and the only company I pulled forward was better book club and better book club is where I spend my time now, uh, trying to bring others into this concept of, of recognizing and rewarding their team members for reading.
Uh, and so that's, that's my passion project right now. Uh, [00:50:00] we, um, uh, as every company we have multiple, um, uh, barriers to growth. Um, and, um, and I'm working through those right now, but, but that's, that's fine. My biggest thing is how do I get more? Leaders to see this path for growth of their team and Gideon, stop, stop recommending books and start recognizing folks who read them.
And I think as
Dan Ryan: far as an entrepreneur, who's exited, this is just such a lasting legacy and impact potential for you because I really believe that if everyone read 10 minutes a day, the world would be a dramatically different.
Arnie Malham: Yeah, it's and that's what we push on better book club is that it's for those that read zero, we're going to get better.
Book club usually helps them read one or two books a year. Right. And that's massive, like forget a book a week or a book a month. Like, that's great. But if we can just get from zero to two, and if we can get those that read two to four six, and if we can get four to six to eight or 12, [00:51:00] and if we can give everybody who's 12 and up a place to display their crate, their, their bookshelf and brag about it, that's that we can, we can shift a whole team forward in terms of knowledge in.
And if we get more knowledge in, I, I almost never seen a case where you don't get more production and bandwidth out. Um,
Dan Ryan: as you're saying that, I'm just thinking about like, I'm the champion for my EO travel and hospitality globally. I think it would be an interesting initiative to just maybe even launch this within industry groups and just see.
How we can share and what that would look like in that way. So I'd love, I'll take that conversation with you offline as far as, as far as to CEO's and within there in intercompany, better book club, um, what's the biggest challenge you're seeing them getting there.
Arnie Malham: Well, there's, there's every, when we, when we talk about this, whether it's on a podcast or on stage or in a group, every CEO says yes, like they [00:52:00] absolutely want to have a program that gets their people read more, but the stumbling blocks are, but wait, I want them to read the books.
I want them to read are the stumbling blocks of we'll. Wait, how do I make sure they read the book? And then the stumbling blocks are, Hey, um, um, we, we we'll do that next quarter, like next, like when I get around to it. So it's all these excuses sort of start showing up as opposed to just do it, do it wrong and on your way, you'll get it right.
And, and, and what's the worst case scenario. Right. We get more books and brains like there's no downside. And financially speaking, the amount of people get, start to freak out about the amount of money it's a rounding error. Uh, the impact is, is massively huge and the expense is around in error. So we just have to work through the excuses for
Dan Ryan: any CEOs listening, like from a previous company of mine, we implemented this and it was, it was amazing.
And. Fomented so much other conversation and sharing and just, and to me, that's almost, [00:53:00] we all know what we need to do every day, but just to be able to expand minds and, and increase the depth of relationships. Intra-company, it's,
Arnie Malham: it's amazing. So, and I'll, I'll push on that a little more as we, you know, we think of book club, as we all read the same book, we all talk about the same book yet.
It is very rare, very rare that that works in companies. Every company thinks it works, but very few actually pull it off on, on for more than a year or so, because, because everyone grows re weary people turn over subjects, change people can't make it priorities get pushed away. It fails 90% of the time.
Right because, but, but we think book club is we all read the same book. We all talk about it. Better book club is everyone reads, whatever they want to read. We still can get together and talk about different books together. And we actually learn more about each other in a more of a wider variety of topics.
And here's the most [00:54:00] important part. Dan, Dan it's sustainable better book club. Doesn't work in a company for six months better. Bookclub works in a company for years because it's sustainable because it works.
Dan Ryan: So let's just say there's a company out there and they implement better book club from best practices, as far as for getting people to read and then sharing what are the best rhythms so that like the people who are resistant, it's like.
Do it, here's the amount of time that we've seen works really well and make it work like what's the perfect recipe or not the perfect there's no perfect, but what's a good starting place.
Arnie Malham: The leader, the leader of the company builds their bookshelf, shows their team. What they've read. Number one, like you got to participate.
You can't just not, not just do what I say. You gotta do what I do. Number one, participate. Number two, assign a champion. I know a book club, a better book club will fail when the leader says I'm in charge. When the leaders in charge programs, [00:55:00] fail leaders, don't run culture programs, champions, run culture programs, and champions typically come from.
Almost always come from within the organization. When you put culture programs, when you put a leader or director of HR in terms of a culture program, it becomes a top down push. When you have a champion from within the organization, lead a program that becomes a bottom up win. And so we have to put champions in charge leaders have to participate, put a champion in charge and give it nine months, not nine days, not nine weeks, but nine months to take root in your, in your, in your team so that we can begin to move the barge forward, the momentum, the flywheel, and move it forward.
Leadership participates a champion is put in charge and nine months,
Dan Ryan: three quarters, a champion.
Arnie Malham: That's the magic. [00:56:00] Like we, we come from conferences or read a book and we think we're going to implement the, you know, these 12 programs and we're not number one. We're not going to do it because a client's gonna call or something's gonna happen in our lives. Or if someone's gonna offer them, something's going to happen.
And all of a sudden this really cool program, which pushed this out of the desk, that happens with you. It happens with your leadership team. It happens with your HR department. It does. Let me tell you it doesn't happen to it. Doesn't have to endure to your receptions. It doesn't happen to the, to the, the graphic designer.
Who's been with you for two years and just working their way up. It doesn't happen to the, to the copywriter who just they're trying to, you know, find experience because their priority is to, is to be seen in the company. And bill use a culture program as a chance to be seen in the program. And when you take your 10 culture programs and you spread it out across 10 champions, guess what they do for each other.
They support each other. They become each other's biggest fans because they realize how hard it is to get people to pull together on stuff. And so it creates a core culture element within your team that begins to [00:57:00] spread the culture programs to champions.
Dan Ryan: And that's for you. That's the, that's the growth value right there.
It's, it's living out your ICU surfing this way. If I see you're excited. And as you're on that wave, what's exciting. You most about the future?
Arnie Malham: Uh, well I think that this, what we've seen with what we've, this gifts that we don't recognize yet in the pandemic is a new way of doing business. It's a new way of living, where we want to live being who we want to be, uh, uh, forgetting about at least two days of, if not all, five of commute time, it's a chance to be our better selves than we were in the, in the pre pandemic world.
We just have to find a way as leaders. And contributors to sustain it and take advantage of it. Like we, we do not want to drift back very few times. This culture go backwards and improve. We have to use this opportunity to push ourselves our [00:58:00] teams and our companies forward, but the party needs to be in reverse as leaders.
We need to understand that when we put our people first, it's the best chance we have of them putting our companies. First, when we think company first, all the time as leaders, we get pushback from our team. So we, so, so one of the biggest shifts I made over my journey was learning how to put our people first so that they had the freedom to put our company first.
Dan Ryan: It's interesting on the people first, because in hotel, in the hotel world, You'll often read the core values printed on a sign or at the workstation, or like in the back of house, it says people first or in some iteration of that. And through the pandemic, I went to so many different hotels and looking back there and how nasty the back of house or what Hilton calls is the heart of house.
And that's actually a different way to look at it. But there were so many where it said not all of them, but there were many that said people first. [00:59:00] And it was just words on a wall. You could just tell it, just dripped words on a wall. Um, for companies that maybe a new CEO is taking over that, and then they have this, there's this disconnect between people first value and what's actually happening.
What kind of advice could you give to that CEO? Like how do you do such a radical change
Arnie Malham: on people? First, I'm going to steal from John Ratliff, who is a huge fan of John. He's a. Part of the scaling up organization, he's the head of their coaching organization right now. He also is a, um, um, a business broker.
He he's helped me in so many ways. And when he was rolling up a call centers and to what became his big exit, uh, from the call center business, when he would buy a small independent call center, the first thing he would do on day one is a truck would pull up and they would deliver twenty four thirty six, a hundred and forty two brand new a, of the most expensive [01:00:00] chair, uh, that you can buy, right?
Uh, for the call center team members. And he would always inevitably they would pull out the old rip torn, broken wheel, squeaky problem chairs. The first thing he would do was put these new chairs in and saying, it's going to be like, we're we care about you, but he didn't just say it. He showed it right.
He showed it by investing in his people first and then asking of themselves. That's that was his plan. And we adapt that. I did the things you're doing. What are you doing to invest in your people? First? It might be their chairs. It might be their growth. It might be, uh, uh, their, their, their computer, their, their home wifi.
I don't know what it is, but you can invest more in your team so that they have the freedom to give back to you. We, we, our, our bathrooms are spotless. Our kitchen was spot. We, our crews came twice a day. Not because it was cheap and not because it was easy because we wanted it that way. That was how we [01:01:00] invest in our people.
If you're going to spend eight to 10 hours with me, I'm going to make this the best possible environment I can for you. And when you tell me that the heart of a hotel, it's not spotless. I w if that area is not spotless, I worry a lot about my room. I'll worry a lot about my room when that area is fine. I feel comfortable.
They should be getting tours. Hotels should be giving tours of the heart of their system to say, this is how much we, this is how we treat our,
Dan Ryan: that's an amazing and powerful idea. And thinking about it from the chair that John would deliver to just giving a tour of the back of house and offering out or the heart of house, that would be that's a, an
Arnie Malham: incredible, yeah.
Dan rather, you came into Nashville and you went on a tour of our shop. We, we, I believe if you can't give a tour, you don't have a culture like that. Buy by deep by offering tours. It puts everyone in a position to show off when you, if I was coming over, if I was coming to your house [01:02:00] today, Chances are, you're going to see you're in a straight in the pillow.
There could be some Dustin, there might be a vacuum out there something's going to happen to clean it up for me. Right. And so, and so rather than do that, when I'm just do it every day,
Dan Ryan: there might even be a little yelling at my smaller roommates,
Arnie Malham: just to just prepare for that prepare for, we remain, someone could walk in with and give us five minutes and we can give it to her because we remained ready for tour.
Dan Ryan: And I also think tying it all back to hospitality, that's really what it's all about. I'm going to go run around and get my house ready for you to come over because I want you to be really comfortable and you might not notice anything that I did, but at least it'll make me at ease if I'm at ease and I've been putting in my effort for you, you sense the, the, uh, you sense the ether around that?
Oh wow. Something is, something is good here.
Arnie Malham: You're your pride, your, uh, [01:03:00] knowledge. Comes through and how you host me.
Dan Ryan: And for thousands of years, it's not, it's not a new trick people. All right. So RNA, we won't go back thousands of years, but go back to when you know, you're, you're just finishing college. You, you you're standing the present, you is standing in front of the cop of the recent college graduate or you're in college.
What advice do you give your younger self, knowing everything that you now know now through all of the exits, all the culture, building all of your entrepreneurial endeavors. What do you, what advice do you give yourself as a
Arnie Malham: younger person? It was great. Cause I've got two. My, my two children just graduated college in may.
They just started their first jobs. Uh they're they're, they're literally months each into their first ever like career based jobs. Uh, and so, um, I'll tell you, I'll talk to you like, like I talked to them and how we went through their process is, um, There was a [01:04:00] time when, when you went to work, you were looking for one of three things you were looking for.
Good pay. You're looking for, um, uh, uh, you wanted to like your team or your leader, uh, and you wanted to be good at what you did. Like, those are three things that if you took, if you got one, if you got really paid really well, but you didn't really love your team or you didn't really like what you did, you'd do it if you liked your team a lot.
But the other two weren't right. If you like pick one that would do, when I graduated college, one would do, when the economy picked up and everything was going well, you probably needed to, but in this world you need three. And in today's world, find an opportunity. Find something you like doing, find a team that you can work with and be compensated fairly for it.
That gives you the freedom. To be the best you you can be. And so, and so I had to learn to be the best me I could be because I, I didn't necessarily start doing something. I love, I did it for the money. I had to find a [01:05:00] team and I had to find a passion. And the sooner we do that as, as humans, the faster we can grow.
Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And just kind of tying it back to what you said about culture. Life is not a destination. It is a journey. And that we do have the ability now to check all of those boxes and there's, and
Arnie Malham: life is too short to me. And as a leader, one of the hardest things we have to do is let people leave our company.
Not like not negatively are some of our greatest ambassadors and refers and bands in this city where people who we helped find another job, because it was best for them. We, we, when someone left us, whether, whether it was. Good blood or bad blood. We would send a gift to their new place of employment after about two weeks and say, thank you for being a part of our team.
We wish you the best. Look at your, to your team. That's the attitude we want to project. We want what's best for our people so that they can give us what's best, but you don't get there overnight. You don't get there by [01:06:00] being the wrong person at the wrong time. You do it by first accepting that you're the leader, that culture reflects leadership, and that your team will reflect the leadership that you give them.
Dan Ryan: I love that you would give a parting employee, a gift and welcoming because as I'm talking to leaders in the hospitality design industry, so many of the people that really created this business when they first started and they really industrialized hotel design, so many of their acolytes went on in their other directions and hung their own shingles.
And the people that I'm talking to. They, and from the time I was 18 or 19, when people would leave, they would always say the greatest things about them and wish them a whole hearted, um, just good luck and great endeavor and just keep going. And I, I like to think that I've taken on some of that too, but that's really important.
And so I'm so happy to hear that you do that as well. Yeah.
Arnie Malham: Yeah. So, so much of what we've talked about, Dan, just for, you know, [01:07:00] we've been on and on and people are going to be sick of hearing us, but so much of what we've done, what we literally worked, doing wrong, very short, very easy read. Um, it, it takes you through a lot of our programs, why we did them, how we did them and what we learned from them.
And so, and so, you know, R and D rip off and duplicate as much as you can from me, because I guarantee you, everything that we did and is in this book, I are indeed ripped off and duplicated from somewhere.
Dan Ryan: That's a core E O thing. Research and development is not research and development. It's R and D it's rip off and
Arnie Malham: duplicate.
Yeah. And then put a little something in it to make it yours. Right. You get to, you get to put a little something on it to make it yours. Well,
Dan Ryan: that's also something where you talked about earlier, your camel culture, once everyone's culture is defined, create, uh, an, an animal or some kind of representation of it and define your culture.
I remember that was, that was you. And the only part you can't have a champion do that from, [01:08:00] I remember you saying that has to be the leader
Arnie Malham: that defines you. Yeah. I mean, I think that, I think so. I mean, I think the leader sets the course and then, and then the. As early entrepreneurs, we'd like to set the course.
We like to drive the car. We like to get off and change the tires and fill it. Like we want to do everything. Our job as an, in a, as we mature as leader, our job becomes set the course, set the values and let people take you there. And that's, it's, it's so easy to say so hard to do, but back to name your culture, if you can't name your culture, you may not have one.
If you name it, you start putting programs in it, which we literally did with the camel. We have the shape of the camel and every program was written inside the camel. It was our programs inside the culture. You don't have to necessarily have a mascot, but you need a shape. You need a shape, a name and a shape of your culture.
You can put things in so that, you know, what's in. Like, it's not the [01:09:00] programs you used to do that. No one's in charge of anymore. If you put that program in your culture, it needs a champion, it needs a checklist and it needs your permission to fail. And if it doesn't have those three things, it's not a sustainable program.
It's a, it's probably a wish or a moment in time, a champion, a checklist, your permission to fail. If it doesn't have those three things, it can not sustain Tom
Dan Ryan: RNA. Um, as always every time I talked to you, it makes me want to talk to you more. And it's always so inspiring. And my head is spinning right now.
I'm going back to everything I learned from you at EMP and all of our other conversations. And I, I have, I've been creating a running list here. Um, but I just want to say thank you. Where can people find.
Arnie Malham: Well first, uh, check out better book club.com like, like do yourself a favor, start putting books in brains.
Stop telling people what to read, start recognizing for when they do check out better book club.com. If you're looking for me for specifically, uh, I've embraced work, [01:10:00] doing wrong. I'm at I'm at arnie@worthdoingwrong.com. If you type in Arnie mal ham, it's a unique name. You'll find me. I'm happy to have virtual coffees.
You can literally schedule a virtual coffee with me, uh, on, uh, on my website. Uh, I do a little consulting, but I promise you this ain't a pitch. The most I'll do is try to talk you into better book club, because I'm passionate about getting people involved in that. But if you want to talk about your culture, your mascot, what you're doing, right, what you're doing wrong.
I'll have coffee, a virtual coffee with you and we'll hang out and I'll tell you things. I've learned
Dan Ryan: Arnie. Thank you so much for being an amazing and incredible.
Arnie Malham: I love it. Dan, I love your enthusiasm for my brand of crazy. And for letting me hang out with you for a,
Dan Ryan: I love it. I'm honored to be hanging out with you and also thank you to our listeners.
Again, each one of these conversations I want my hope is that it evolves your thinking on hospitality and making others comfortable. Culture is the number one way I [01:11:00] think. Um, so if you've enjoyed this or learn something, please share this. Um, if you want to reach out to Arnie, please reach out and thank you everyone so much.
We'll get you next time.