Defining Hospitality

DH - Scott Williams (NEW)
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[00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan and this is Defining Hospitality.

Dan: Today's guest has over 20 years of experience in the hospitality industry. He manifests strategies to ideate, develop, and revive businesses. He's been profiled in the Wall Street Journal, which we'll talk about because it's super duper cool.

Uh, when he was younger, he fell in love with ballet and wanted to be Baryshnikov. So he knows a lot about balance. After graduate school, he went to Steppenwolf Theater. Then moved into media and TV at the likes of HBO and CBS. And then he transitioned those skills after meeting Barry Sternlich as a storyteller into being chief creative officer at Starwood.

[00:01:00] And then after a great run there, he began the CMO at Morgan's. Currently he's the chief development and brand officer at Main Street Hospitality. Ladies and gentlemen, Scott Williams. Welcome Scott. It's always good to have a fellow nutmegger on the show.

Scott: A fellow nutmegger. Well, hello,

Dan: I, I, and just to clarify, I don't think a lot of the listeners may know what a nutmegger is, but I found out since moving to Connecticut, we are the nutmeg state and you're not called a Connecticut or you're called a nutmegger. So. Scott, welcome.

Scott: I'm learning so much already. I did not

Dan: Oh, you didn't know that?

Scott: I didn't know that, that people who live here are called nutmeggers.

Dan: see,

Scott: there's all kinds of, uh, fun you could

Dan: there is a tremendous amount of fun, but now, um a lot of different ways that our conversation can go today, because I know you from many different hats, um,

Scott: You have a

Dan: And I have a hat on today because I'm a diehard and sad Mets fan. Um, and they just got smoked by the Dodgers [00:02:00] last night.

But anyway, there's still hope. Best of seven.

Scott: There's always

Dan: Mm hmm.

yes, especially when it's best of seven. But, um, I think, uh, Our paths first crossed, we first crossed paths with Independent Lodging Congress, and I think a lot of the passions that we share about, our industry that we are married to and making babies with, stems from our shared passions, um, that I think drew us to the Independent Lodging Congress.

Your story begins well before that, uh, my story begins well before that, but somehow I think it It really, that organization has done such a fantastic job of kind of distilling all the things that I love about hospitality and all the things that inform what hospitality is. So I guess, before we get into everything else, I always ask everyone, and I will ask you, what does hospitality mean to you?

Scott: Well, thanks for having me on. That's, uh, what a nice intro. I think you [00:03:00] just touched on it when you said that the ILC shared something was out of the ordinary. I would define hospitality as sharing and sharing coming back to sharing all those great adjectives that we always hear about. which is your friendliness, your openness, your warmth, your, you fill in the blanks, but it is this moment where you, as a customer, 100 percent feel it.

I'll give you the opposite, a real time story that happened to us this weekend. Our daughter's birthday, she came up. we went out to one of our favorite restaurants, the whole, uh, crew, the squad us. And, uh, we were put into a back room. It's up in Litchfield [00:04:00] and Kent, and we were put in a back room and listen, the vibe is not as. happy or vibey as the front room. And so we asked if we could be in the front room and they accommodated that. And this caveat, which is she very bluntly, the concierge, the hostess said, you have to be out by 645. And it was six o'clock and instantly she was sharing her stress. And her attitude about, I don't know, turning tables or not wanting us to move tables. And I thought this is the exact opposite of sharing your hospitality. You know, the idea of what good shall I do today with each and every customer was just lost on it. So I would [00:05:00] say hospitality is sharing the best of yourself with one customer at a time. each and every interaction.

Dan: I love that.

I guess what's interesting about that scenario you just shared is it's prime season. It's all of these things. There's all of these, um, Constraints put on the ask to change the room. However, I totally think that that delivery could have been way different and still made you feel amazing and made you feel like, oh, this is going to be a really special day.

So like, if you were to rewind, how would you play that card differently to, to, to share that good, if you will?

Scott: Well, one of the ways if she really is under stress could be to take it to one of us, one of the, you know, and say, say it privately, but [00:06:00] instead, you know, it came out across to my daughter and then the rest of the evening we just had fun. As to how unhospitable she was. And every time she came over, she was looking at us as if to hurry us out.

and by the way, the punchline is, is that the service was slow. So they didn't even get to our, We didn't even finish until 10 after seven, but, um, I would say there's a way to do it with a smile on your face. There's a twinkle in your eye. There's a connection you can make to ask graciously and gracefully, Hey, uh, I know you guys are wanting to be in here, but there's a, you know, something or other big table coming in, whatever it was, but she just totally blew

Dan: Well, I think also a lot, a lot of the conversations here, an idea of like meeting others where they are or feeling or meet, you know, it's in a way. That idea of sharing that you just mentioned, it's, um, [00:07:00] she could have just been a bit more vulnerable and just said, Hey, I am dealing with XYZ. And even if she did it privately, when you develop some empathy, and then you're like, okay, yeah, we get it.

Let's, let's work with you. and I, I think that. One of the reasons why I feel as if this podcast has grown legs and wings beyond just the regular hospitality industry and attracts the likes of a lot of entrepreneurs is because a lot of that empathy and connection and vulnerability A lot of businesses and teams within those businesses struggle with that being vulnerable.

It's like, this is the right way. This is how we're doing it and get on or get off the bus. Whereas in the idea of coaching, instead of like managing, the idea of managing is turned into coaching. It's really kind of, how do you get the best out of others? And the way that I've found you can get the best out of others is [00:08:00] being vulnerable with your own situation.

At that given moment. What are your thoughts on that?

Scott: you nailed it with vulnerability because if you are dealing with people who have needs, uh, that are much greater, you know, you are a servant to them. It's exhausting and I get it. I understand. And that's why you hear that you cannot, train for that kind of. You've just got to train them for the aptitude of doing it because you want those ones that have the attitude of the servant culture, or the attitude of empathy, or the attitude of listening.

That's why at the front desk, when you're You're checking in, they go, checking in. You're like, yeah, what else would I be doing here? Or they're not looking at you to see how exhausted you are or what you look like. They're just looking down at the keyboard ready to you in. because I get it, it's, it [00:09:00] is, you're putting yourself into an incredibly vulnerable spot. But the great ones the ability to

Dan: Or you could just be at a beautiful brasserie in France somewhere where they don't want to turn the tables and you're just, you can just sit there all day, all night, and they don't care because they're not working for tips and they just want you to have a great time. Unfortunately,

we're not there.

Scott: one thing that you notice, uh, when you've been in the business for a long time is, you know, when they want you to move, they do very subtle things. They start taking the flatware away. They start asking permission. Are you done with the salt and pepper? Because the more the table gets vacant, the more the natural inclination is, is that The meal is over to the customer. And so they do it in almost nonverbal

Dan: Well, I want to, I want to go out on a limb here because I think your journey, this may be a leading question, but, um, [00:10:00] your journey is really interesting because. You started off with a love of play and Shakespeare, as you like it, all the world's a stage, right? So in, when you're on stage, as the involvement that you had in several, you're in stage, there's like a, there's a, there's a barrier between stage and audience.

Sometimes it's broken. It's, I like it. I think it's really fun when it's broken, but it doesn't happen very often because there is that separation. Is there, Any impetus that had you kind of evolve your passion and love for the stage and make the journey over to hospitality?

Scott: Yeah. Well, yes and no. I mean, the, the feeling is always there. It's being communicated. Whether you're, whether you're breaking that fourth wall in an untraditional sense. and making the connection where you're staying within the confines of the play, which means there's three walls. But, but I [00:11:00] think what you're saying, there, there is, there is a shared journey that's going on, whether you're the audience or a member of the cast on stage, that's transporting you just like great hospitality should transport

Dan: get,

Scott: a

journey.

Dan: where I was trying to go in eloquently with that question or clumsily was you started off with this passion for the theater, but now it's been 20 years in hospitality. Was there something missing in that theater experience for you that you've gained in hospitality that has to do with how you, what it means to you as far as sharing and bringing out the best and, and doing good for others?

Scott: Oh, I just think that so many similarities between every day is a, new version of the play of the same play. You know, the Red Lion Inn or La Mamuna has a certain script. It's, it's, it's a [00:12:00] story in and of itself. And it is the players that are the narrative every day. Um, and you know, what's super popular is nowadays and has been around for 30 years is immersive theater where it's changing, from room to room.

And that's more what hospitality is like, whether or not you have enough players that can disengage from certain they have. And the reason why I say disengage, meaning, can your front desk person checking in, can they excuse themselves from behind the big, uh, check in desk to come out and make a more, human connection with, the person checking in and hand them their keys instead of across a desk. Can [00:13:00] your server at dinner take a little more time? Or is there always this sense of is just waiting for me to come back and grab a plate and serve the next person? You feel that all the time in restaurants certainly, is, you know, Just the clock is ticking to take your order or, or it's the opposite.

Where the hell did my server go? I just sat down, you know, oftentimes I will set a stopwatch to see how long it takes for someone. Once I've sat down to a gracious introduction of are you all doing? Here's our menus. Can I get anybody a beverage of their choice? Whatever it is.

Dan: Well, I think after your experience with theater and TV, Or media, like theater, media. Then you kind of, you had this incredible experience with who I think is just like the King Midas of our industry, but all the good parts, not the bad parts of everything he touches turns to gold, Barry Sternlich, and then also [00:14:00] working at Morgans.

how do you think that transition suited you on your career path? And also like bringing in all that stuff that I think is what draws us both to ILC.

Scott: well, it's funny. You don't know you're working for. legends when you're working for them and they're, you know, I didn't go work for Steve Jobs when he was already a legend or Horace Schultz when he was already a legend. Barry was becoming, legendary at the time. Now he's, you know, as, as big a Um, Hotelier and private equity guy in the world as, as there is.

And Ian was long before that, but I want to be clear, Ian had left the building, uh, right around the time, I don't know, a few months before I got there. but let me tell you, going from HBO, CBS, uh, ESPN, the analogy I always [00:15:00] drew to back to TV and film was because people said, how did, how did you make the leap?

And it was a very lucky leap I, I did meet, Barry and he needed some consultative work on, on some advertising and I had just enough knowledge to, to help him. But the analogy that we have in television is you want ratings, right? You want as many eyeballs per show as you can get. per evening, per day part, as possible.

And in the hotel business, you want to get heads in beds as it's crassly put. You want as many heads in those beds and drive occupancy as high as you can without sacrificing or without, without sacrificing rate. And so there's a rating system. And so what do you do in a rating system, whether it's the analogy of, of ratings for [00:16:00] television or ratings, um, even now, so more pronounced with TripAdvisor is you have to create those experiences and the experiences are in broadcast TV or in cable TV or prestige TV. They are these incredible storytellers both Barry and Ian are incredible storytellers, but is this You know, ratings, you have to build great set designs. So what does your production look like and feel like? How does it come through the television? How does, when you open the door of your room, what happens physically? To that guest, do they go, is there an exhale like you do when you get into bed and start watching your favorite show and you feel, oh, know, I just can't wait. There's casting. There are choices we make when we hire people for every role in the [00:17:00] hotel. Same as there is in television or film. You know, we always say in hospitality, people make the difference.

How many times have you heard that for years? Well, casting directors are the exact same way. It's why they are now winning Oscars for casting after not being in that category for years, because that is it. It, and so people in the right parts, in the right positions, uh, externally facing is everything, exudes

Dan: Well, I think, I also think that a lot of that, if talking about Barry and SH Hotels or One Hotels, like his portfolio of hotels, like where he is currently, it's really about, obviously, in addition to sustainability, it's all about the people that they hire. It's the, the cast, right? And I'm going to connect right now, Barry Sternlich, to Main Street Hospitality and Sarah Eustace, because in the pandemic.

[00:18:00] I furnish hotels, right? That just wasn't happening anymore. and so to help with my boredom, uh, I, I helped found a company called Blue Canary, which we went in and we coached on site housekeeping teams. On how to be safe, how to clean rooms better. I was going around swabbing hotels all up and down the Eastern seaboard and taking measurements.

It was really disgusting and awesome, but everywhere. And uh, two of our first clients were Starwood hotels and main street hospitality because in going to all of those other hotels and doing the swab tests and coming up with matrices of disgustingness, um, I would go into these break rooms. And in the big break rooms, they would say, you know, they'd have posters of like people rowing together and say people first, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But what I found was they didn't put their people first. Main Street did, Starwood did, because they wanted to be at the cutting edge of this. Like how do we [00:19:00] keep and get engaged with our frontline employees in a different way? And I just felt like, to me, that was just heartwarming. One of my, one of the coolest experiences I had, Last December, I went to, um, Hammett's Wharf, which is one of your hotels out in, uh, Newport.

My son had a football tournament. But I checked in there with my son, and then one of the, I think the head of housekeeping, or one of the housekeepers came out and was like, Wait, you're Dan. I remember you from the Red Lion Inn. I loved that learning that you guys did.

I gotta say, like, we did the learning. Like, we had the, we developed the coursebook to teach them and help them be more safe. and engage with them. But it takes leaders like Barry Sternlich or Sarah Eustace to say like, look,

Scott: Danny

Dan: Danny Meyer, we need to put our people first.

Scott: Hospitality,

Dan: So I think that what, where I'm trying to go with that is it's really all about the putting the people first truly.

And how do you think [00:20:00] on your career journey, where you started in hospitality to where you are now, how have you seen the best possible ways of putting people first?

Scott: You know, when you walk into an Apple store, it's a tech which is the most stressful thing in our lives because it's so complicated. And yet, they, they de complicated it, they uncomplicated it, they put all their best people on the floor, out in front, at these Genius Bars you know, like we said earlier about the hostess, like. Came in contact with this past weekend and just said, how can I? Simplify your life, which is exactly on the principles of Apple, right? How can I simplify your life for free, by the way? and, uh, the other great brands like Nordstrom does that. And, but let's see, how do we [00:21:00] put our people? First, or what

Dan: Yeah. Or it's it's even just building that cast, like hiring, recruiting, um, making sure that you have the best ensemble for that immersive theater experience. What, what are some great ways that you've seen that to attract the best and, and, and continue to sharpen those saws of those people?

Scott: yeah, I think it's the, the commitment promise that you make to people, who are auditioning or interviewing making sure that that attitude that they have, which is hospitable. And that idea of serving other people is front and center. And then following up, I think one of the worst things you can do is hire people and then not continue to develop them or check back in with them.

So you have that onboarding process, which feels uniquely and [00:22:00] on brand for the culture that you've just entered. And then 30 days later, you're closing the loop a little tighter. Um, with a, uh, uh, follow up meeting and then that six month check in. And very few companies, few do that. Main Street does it. Schrager, uh, the, the Morgan's Hotel group did it when I was there. We had a very good, um, HR

Dan: Yeah, I really like it. I also think that, you know, in this time when people and finding and retaining people seem to be. Some of the biggest concerns of operating hotels, I think to have some kind of continual learning, um, to help strengthen their knowledge base and engage with them on a different way, it helps make that culture more, it makes those posters become more real and makes those companies become more sticky so that employees see that, you know, Hey, I'm on a path of learning and this is super engaging.

[00:23:00] And I. really enjoy this. And I don't know. I, and just from my experience, I feel like it really helps increase energy levels of those of that ensemble. I love the idea of that, just the ensemble of the cast and breaking down those walls. But I feel like it just makes it a completely better immersive experience.

Scott: our came up with this idea. I think it was Greta who, who came up with skills lab and one Friday every month, one expert in the field would deliver a one hour 1 p. m. on a new skill or a developing skill that, um, that had a, had a, um, uh, impact on people's careers within the field. the company. And so it ranged from every department, every division. Um, some of them were nuts and bolts. How do you find logos and photography [00:24:00] on our website? Because we have a digital asset management system and they're all there and they're all cataloged and they're all tagged, to marketing development, to accounting, to, um, business development, how do we make sure we're out looking for the next best? Main Street Hotel. People really got a spark out of

Dan: I, like that because it also just helps. Um, look, we all have playbooks and there's operations manuals and blah, blah, blah, but there's this institutional knowledge, um, and soft skill that doesn't translate from the personal experience of the people who has been there for a long time to those playbooks.

Um, have you been asked to, Do one of those skills labs about, um, your diet and your training regimen and all those things that you were written up on in the wall street journal.

Scott: no,

Dan: Why not?

Scott: no. why not? I, cause it's, nobody wants to know [00:25:00]

Dan: Well, I want to, I want to know it. And I think our listeners want to know about it

Scott: was a long

Dan: I know it's a

Scott: it's the same. I mean, it's, it's even more pronounced now than it was then, but I've always been, you know, I've always been an athlete. One of the things for the tyranny of the scattered mind is discipline, is personal discipline. And I believe that that, helps me.

It's where, as the cliche goes, you get your best ideas when you're out running or you're out not thinking about anything other than where the next turn is or where the next, use whatever sports analogy you want in there. But, uh, yeah, the Wall Street Journal did profile. There, there used to be a great, I don't know if it was on Fridays and Jen Murphy, uh, wrote it and I, I bumped into her when I was kayaking to, uh, 50th birthday party.

Dan: In Red Hook, right?

Scott: In Red Hook, we had put in on up in Greenpoint and the tide had changed in [00:26:00] the East River, which I do not ever recommend going against the tide in a small kayak, trying to get to Red Hook.

Cause it was, um, it

Dan: In the East River in particular, because everyone it's gnarly there and there's like whirlpools and crates. It's, it's insane. It's like, uh,

Scott: brutal, it was

Dan: you know, Odysseus would have,

Scott: come from Seattle. I've kayaked in the Inside Passage, I've, yeah, I was not a novice and my buddy who was helping me celebrate and I, um, anyway, we were an hour late walking through the parking lot with the kayaks to my birthday party at a friend's Red Hook rooftop and, um, I came up, took a shower and she cornered me and said, so, um, what, what else do you do? And she was just fishing for, uh, somebody like me. And so they profiled me on something, uh, think the title was execs workout, uh, could exhaust [00:27:00] people half his age, something like that.

Dan: well,

Scott: hey, listen, it was flattering.

Dan: well I think, I think it's remarkable because what my takeaway aside from just the intensity of the workouts is just the consistency of diet, not for the sake of exertion, but the sake of just being able to maintain a level of energy. And I think. If we go back to the beginning of being vulnerable and meeting others where they are, in order for someone, I'll just speak for myself, in order for me to be vulnerable and to be able to make that bridge with someone else, my energy levels have to be up because that's when I'm most self aware and I have to be aware of those energy levels.

And I think you're, you're dismissing the importance of diet or maintaining energy levels, but I think that it's, it's really critical and I think often, often missed.

Scott: Oh, no, I'm, I'm, I, I promise you, I'm not dismissing it. I'm a firm [00:28:00] believer in we are what we eat. I'm a firm believer in we are what we watch, um, in this day and age of, you can watch anything on your phone and iPad. And, uh, you know, there's so much greatness out there and there's so much crap out there.

and same with food.

There's so much great food out there that's, easy to access and there's so much crap. But yeah, I, if I don't sleep well and if I don't eat well, I'm about to run the New York marathon. Um, and If I'm not in great physical shape for that, 26. 2 miles kicks your ass.

Dan: one of the things I'm, I'm nervous or loathe to do the New York city marathon about is the starting point in, um, Staten Island. like, how do you get there for the start? Are you going and staying there the night before, or are you going that morning?

Scott: no, nobody is staying there. You have to be bused in or ferried in. And it's, uh, yeah, it's pretty stressful getting there, but the com Talking about sharing, the communal [00:29:00] experience is I've not done Tokyo, I've not done Berlin, I've not done Chicago. But as they say, New York is the world's largest house party.

But it is stressful in the morning. You know, you're getting up at four, you're having your little tiny meal, starting to do gel packs, you're stretching, then you get on a bus. 55, 000 other, you know, the city is just this, the funny thing is as a city dweller, the city is just migrating South. There's just thousands of people migrating to the tip of the island in some form or fashion, whether it's on this fleet of buses or on this, brigade of, of ferries. And then they get off and they walk and the, um, The security is a bummer and, and waiting around is a bummer, but oh God, it's glorious. I'm, I've never run, I've never gotten the draw where I get on top of. [00:30:00] the Verrazano.

Dan: You're always under on the lower end or underneath. Um,

Scott: this,

I'm hoping this year I'll be up top.

Dan: you brought up Horst Schulze earlier in the conversation in passing. Um, and I brought up in a little anecdote of that Blue Canary company I started, but as it was forming, one of the people I was introduced to to kind of pitch the idea to was Horst Schulze. Um, and I had a really lovely conversation with him.

I actually just met his daughter a couple months ago in Atlanta. But he said something, and again, I want to bring it back to kind of your career journey in the, from the Sternlich starting of W Hotels, like in that world to the Morgans Hotel to your ILC involvement to now with Main Street Hospitality.

Horst said something that was really intriguing. He said, you know, the brands aren't going to want this because they have to do. You know, 18 rooms a day and blah, blah, [00:31:00] blah. And they just don't have the time, but the independents, they will do it. And he said, this was very early in the pandemic. I would say June of 2020,

Scott: Wait, they're not going to want the Blue

Dan: not going to want to take the extra time away from the efficiency of their,

of their housekeepers, but, and that actually, that part doesn't matter, but he said, he said the independents would want this.

And he said something that was really striking. And I've also seen it with the rise of soft brands. He said this from pandemic. forward till now. He said, this is the time for independence. And I think like looking at your journey, you've kind of migrated into this independent, um, hospitality space. Um, do you agree with that?

And what keeps you? with independence and, and what's this passion for independent hotels that you have in not just your vocation, but also how you spend your extra time with ILC and being a leader there, et cetera, et [00:32:00] cetera. Is it the time for independence and why?

Scott: Well, there's always room for challenger brands, always room for innovation. And there seems to, there's not, it doesn't seem to be, there is consolidation at the very tip top, like we've never seen, it's just 10 hotel groups that own, What is it, 90 percent of the room count in the world? then there's 10% I mean, the mom and pops, independence in the rest of the world, I think, is even greater. larger than it is in North America, but very little in the middle. And then there's this ecosystem that you and I both fell in love with or love the people who are out there doing, uh, incredibly fun, smart, innovative, new, uh, types of hospitality. And then you bump up [00:33:00] against scale. It's just this natural, Scope problem, which is you have to continue to grow.

And how do you grow? You grow through mergers, acquisitions, uh, scalability. Look at Shake Shack. I mean, Danny went from, you know, X amount of restaurants, and then all of a sudden Shake Shack hits, and I don't think you've been in an airport or Connecticut now, they seem to be everywhere.

Dan: also see it like with Hilton. Now you mentioned acquisition. I think one of the most interesting. Independent brands that had developed as far as like, I think any brand that has a super targeted thesis, like graduate hotels, college towns, um, designed over the top to kind of, I don't know. Mirror, whatever the alumni, what would draw the alumni, the students, the just for that overall experience.

That to me was a really [00:34:00] cool targeted brand. And then Hilton just acquired it because it's hard to create that. It's almost like the independent space is a laboratory for Innovation. Maybe that's what it is.

Scott: I think that's very true. I think that they're looking down from a high perch and saying, somebody go out and find out what's interesting and what's working and we will scale it. I give Marriott a lot of credit. I remember when were at Starwood. Oh, well, I mean, the the Heavenly Bed is, is a, both a great example of innovation. Weston when, um, Starwood did it and also great example of how slow adoption was elsewhere. The Heavenly Bed developed grassroots. 35 beds in the, in the lobby of Starwood's headquarters. Spring counts being tested. Simmons and [00:35:00] Serta playing off each other. the brand was then named. And then launched, but the launch didn't have a hundred percent compliance. It was only owners who had kind of bought into it because nobody wanted to reinvest in a white bed. Why? Because operations teams said, there's no, you're crazy. People put chocolate on the beds and they put their shoes on the beds.

Why would you dirty this up? To your point about Blue Canary and bringing in the swab samples, we all remember what it was like with the floral. Spreads and why those were so prevalent is because you could hide everything in those.

Dan: Obfuscate all of the, all the different colors.

Scott: that went the way of, you know, the heavenly bed.

and then, so that was the innovation that changed the business forever. As a matter of fact, the great quote is that Bill Marriott said, I can't believe it. Took Barry Sternlich to teach me how to make a bed. That's a direct quote from Bill Marriott, giving Barry, [00:36:00] you know, enormous credit for that innovation. They gave us five year headstart, a five year headstart Marriott did. they said, Oh, this thing's real. So five years and then they launched the Revive bed and they took out bus shelters and Central Station and full page ads. And I don't think it really went anywhere, but then the whole industry was full of white beds.

Dan: It's also shocking to me that hotels have been around since forever. That really Barry coming up with this like, Hey, let's focus on the bed and let, let's see how we can get people to sleep better.

Scott: the most obvious right in front of everyone. And it's oftentimes the outsider or the innovator who, who, you know, that Arab proverb that says, I don't know who discovered water, but it

Dan: right.

Scott: That's [00:37:00] the, that's the whole thing. If you're too close to it, you're just never going to see it. gosh.

Dan: look at your journey and

we are with independent hotels and how it's that laboratory of innovation, um, what's excited you most about the future as you look forward? Mm

Scott: the continual ascent of experiential memory making brands. Well, I don't mean urban hotels. I think that what's happening in the great outdoors post COVID is pretty extraordinary. Whether it's getaway with a tiny little box you can rent, has a digital detox box, you know, to put your phone in and get a literally getaway to auto camp, to trail born, they've all been at ILC. think they're

Dan: hmm.

Scott: Yeah. And I think that there, that, that target, that segment will continue to grow because people want almost everything. I mean, I just came back from a week in the [00:38:00] Canadian Rockies where I was carrying a 32 pound pack going up 3, 200 feet a day and staying at huts, which are 40 a night. A communal experience, absolutely the best views in, in Canada, on glaciers and what have you. But it's, it's basically what all of these companies are trying to do. They just want to add that whole, I hate that term, clamping, but a little bit extra. So You know, AutoCamp with the centralized sort of front porch mentality of how the Airstreams are maybe in a horseshoe so you have a town square, it's quite brilliant. Um, sense of belonging is, you hear this all the time in Marketing Deck, the sense of belonging, the sense of community, those are never going away. Whether it's in the lobby and you create high tea, whether it's [00:39:00] Or you create a membership club. I think social clubs right now are on the rise in major metros. it's what's old is new again, right? The stork club. I think I told you once when I got to Morgan's, one of the sweetest gestures ever was, was Ben Pundle. Who's quite, uh, A figure and legend in the, the hospitality business gave me a book called Welcome to the Stork Club, written by Merle Allen, and he inscribed it, and the Stork Club, those kinds of social clubs, university clubs, college clubs, just, they're priceless.

There's a reason why they're popular. I mean, you know, country clubs are one thing that's a little different, but, um, urban clubs that deliver the programmatic experiences along with a great F& B experience, along with the communal sense [00:40:00] of belonging and inspiration. magic.

Dan: Yeah, and of all those things that you said right there, it's, I think, to me, no matter where the location, out in the woods, up in the Rockies, in an urban center, it's really that, the programmatic experience, right? It's that curated experience. I hate that word curated, but it's like, it's such a thoughtful, um,

Scott: Do you like bespoke?

Dan: It serves a purpose, but it like, it annoys me. But I don't know. It's like, you know, Bashar always says he hates the word authentic, but I can't think of another word that, you know, that works for that. To be authentic is, you know, to, to be, to be real.

Scott: to be genuine, to

Dan: yeah. So like, whatever. I do custom furniture. Could I call it bespoke furniture?

It sounds nicer. Yeah, I guess so.

Scott: it's to be most like the thing it

Dan: [00:41:00] Yes. Yes. And I, that, but the infrastructure that a hotel would need and the thoughtfulness and the planning and the strategy to deliver a really thoughtful, authentic, bespoke, curated, programmatic experience. It's a, That's kind of where you get into the, into like black magic and voodoo stuff. Because just like you said, as what makes Ben super special, um, and I've met him a few times is he's able, and there are certain people who are able to make sense of that gray area and really distill out like a really cool, thoughtful experience that checks all the boxes.

what do you think a big, roadblock to creating those. that type of programming at a hotel is, or what, what have you found the big roadblocks are,

Scott: Uh, when they're lame. Oh,

Dan: but, but that big, that comes down to the people make crafting. Okay. So when they're lame, number one,

Scott: [00:42:00] Yeah, yeah. When, when there's no consistency of curiosity for ideas or stories with, they have to impact something. They have to go somewhere. A story follows a pattern. A great story does, right? There's some drama, there's a conflict, there's a fall, there's a rise. You have to have that, but you also have to have frequency. I mean, you can't just do it every once in a while. And so the consistency, the frequency, the cadence, the cadence. Um, the authenticity,

Dan: but, but I'll also say, I'll also say it's, it's kind of difficult to ascribe an ROI to that type of programming. Like you can do it, I would say on a [00:43:00] spectrum. Like if you are room rates, doing a room renovation, a really compelling F and B experience to this kind of programmatic experience. If they were on a spectrum, I would say the programmatic experience, again, I don't really know much, but I would say that that's harder to ascribe an ROI to.

Scott: It is, unless you're selling tickets. If you're selling memberships, and it is a service product offering that comes with the membership, it is one of the benefits I, as a new member, am looking for, as opposed to, Just networking with people or co working space or because you've got a lot of these from Convene to Noe house to Noe house builds it into the DNA. has to be there. The Soho house programming has to be there. Then you have to define what? Disciplines you're going to be in be [00:44:00] all things to all people. It's not that interesting.

Dan: but in that, in that membership club idea, that's more of a recurring revenue model. So maybe the effectiveness of that programmatic experience, would reduce the churn or increase, increase the stickiness of that recurring revenue aspect or channel within the hotel or hospitality experience, You know, when you see it, there's not like a, a binary. Um, yes or no, a litmus test for it. And I guess it's for that really good, authentic programming.

It's, you know, when you see it and feel it.

Scott: I would say the ROI on the Genius Bar is a good example. Or, or, or, I mean, and you could, you could draw a direct line to

hospitality. I go in for service. It's free to me. How often do I buy something else when I'm at the Apple store? you know, they're gonna either upsell me or they're I'm gonna [00:45:00] while I'm waiting I'm gonna look at The peripherals that Apple store offer. I'm gonna be intrigued by the new phone or the new iPad Whether it's one, two, three, four times. I'm in there. I'm gonna I guarantee you somebody's coming back and spending more money and that's what it is. I mean at Canoe Place or at Porches with Studio 9 or at the Lion's Den, we bank on, I can't draw a direct line to the ROI unless I've ticketed Jeff Goldblum. you know, it's 200 for a ticket to Jeff Goldblum and our producers are taking that cut, but I'm doing 40, 000 worth of. beverage sales that night. and everybody's talking about it and I get a mention in page six and I can measure that. But at the end of the year, going back to, let's say the brand stewards or the ownership group, um, whoever owns the hotel, [00:46:00] you're right.

It You know it

Dan: Hmm.

Scott: it, people are talking about you. In a way that they hadn't perhaps talked about you and spreading good word of mouth than

Dan: Yeah. I,

and really, and that all comes down to like creating these raving fans, which is what, again, you go, keep going back to the genius bar in Apple, but that's what they've been so unbelievable at. Right. And they've created this ecosystem that you just never, ever, ever want to leave.

Scott: unbelievable. It is.

Dan: in my furniture business, we've started tracking.

As one of our most important metrics, aside from all of the other, um, financial ones and all the, like we have a whole dashboard, but it's really, unsolicited, positive feedback from customers, because for us, that's when we know we're doing a really good job when it's unsolicited. It's, it's a way of measuring that and then also celebrating it so that we're reporting on it.

We're talking about it. We're sharing the experience because then that creates the halo [00:47:00] effect and gets that institutional knowledge out of people's heads and into, uh, Everyone, so that we all kind of lean into creating raving fans a bit more.

Scott: Yeah. Yep.

It's tribal.

Dan: is.

Scott: I mean, look at, look at the NFL.

Dan: Yeah.

Scott: So

Dan: Unreal.

Scott: and that's kind of brand loyalty you

Dan: yeah, and that's also its own ecosystem as well, that just doesn't, that defies market forces, which is unbelievable.

Scott: Yeah. The NFL does not have a loyalty

Dan: Right.

Scott: You know, it doesn't need it. It's got these players or it's got these, this cast. Right? You come back to people make the difference. Yeah, of course. Athletes make the difference, that's what you're paying astronomical fees for as a ticket

Dan: Mm-Hmm.

Scott: and to be part of that community, that back to sense of belonging and experience and Tribality, tribality that so [00:48:00] powerful.

Dan: Yeah. Well, Scott, this has been awesome and I, I thank you so much for your time and insights and, and your vulnerability in sharing yourself with the whole world out there. if people wanted to learn more about you or Main Street Hospitality, what's the best way, uh, for the listeners to learn more?

Scott: Uh, great website, MainStreetHospitality. com. ScottSWilliams. com. I have a vanity site. find me on LinkedIn. Yeah, you're very nice to ask. I'm on

Dan: Great.

Scott: Uh, that's probably the most powerful tool out there.

Dan: I love it.

Scott: Thank you, Microsoft.

Dan: that was a, I thought they overpaid for it way back in the day, but to me it's, uh, it might have been one of their. More astute investments that they've ever made.

Scott: That's like saying Disney overpaid for

Dan: Yeah,

Scott: Four billion. Yeah.

Dan: but I want to thank you wholeheartedly. Thank you, Scott, for your time. And I, I appreciate you so much. And, um, I want to thank all of our listeners because without you, I wouldn't be [00:49:00] interviewing great people like Scott and tapping into his institutional knowledge and getting it out there for all of us to listen to.

So if this changed the way you think about hospitality, um, or just change your ideas on anything, Made you think a little bit differently to go back to the Apple metaphor. Please share it. We grow by word of mouth and we appreciate it. And I love coming out here and talking to great people like Scott. So thank you all.

Thank you.