Defining Hospitality

DH - Joe Balcken and Shelton Steele
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Speaker: [00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together, we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.

This podcast is sponsored by Berman Falk Hospitality Group, a design driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.

Dan Ryan: Today's guests are a duo who bring a wide variety of skills in business, operations, sales, and management. And who took the leap to become co owners of an urban cabin campground. They opened their hotel three years ago and have received raving reviews since then, capturing the essence of hospitality in an outdoor setting. They are also the co owners of a hospitality management company called All Forward [00:01:00] Outdoors, LLC. They are the co owners of the Wrong Way River Lodge and Cabins. Joe Balcken and Shelton Steele. Welcome gentlemen.

Shelton Steele: Thanks, Dan.

Joe Balcken: happy

to be here, Dan.

Dan Ryan: it's so good to have you here. So I just want all of our listeners to know they're in Asheville. I think I was there in August or September. I don't remember exactly and for the Independent Lodging Congress, shout out to the ILC and we got a tour of their incredible campground slash hotel, urban campground slash hotel. That's each cabin is an A frame that's built on these huge pylons that are raised up above a floodplain. I'm probably using all the terms the wrong way, but it's like FEMA. Plus whatever, totally awesome, and it just has this really incredible vibe in a river valley in Asheville, and we walked there. and I was just blown away by, um, Joe's daughter actually did the murals [00:02:00] that are in the A frame, which is, which are super cool. Um, they have a really cool mural. Kind of outdoor area, a great office. It's just a beautiful, beautiful location. When I went running the morning before I went there, I was running up the, by the river and a bear came out of nowhere and that was fun, but it's this beautiful idyllic setting, uh, that's incredible.

And the reason why I'm sharing all this idea of the beautiful idyllic stuff is because. There was a hurricane since then, and it's really upended everything in Asheville and the wrong way. Um, and I just wanted to get these two on to just share their experience and, um, entrepreneurial journey and passion of everything that they're doing. And so we're going to bring it over to Joe and to Shelton So given all of that and this incredible space that you've made, um, Shelton, we'll start with you. How do you

define

hospitality?

Shelton Steele: Yeah. That's a fun [00:03:00] question. I come at it from a sense of place and you know, the, the kind of key hole in our, our project was we saw a need to create a lodging business that aligned with Asheville's outdoor personality. And so in doing so, you know, if you zoom out and then zoom back in, we're in Western North Carolina.

And then we're in Asheville and we're in West Asheville specifically. The neighborhood that we adjoined is called the East West. Asheville neighborhood, Iwana. Um, and then our, our property actually sits down in the, the flood plain. So we adjoined, we align with the French Broad river and we just felt like this was, this is the place that I, it's my backyard and I wanted to share it with everyone and create, uh, you know, an experience that aligned with my version of Asheville.

Dan Ryan: So a sense of place given all of that. I love it. Okay. And then Joe, how about you? You're, you, you came from a different [00:04:00] world and created this incredible project. How do you define hospitality?

Joe Balcken: Yeah. Um, as you mentioned that different world that come from a customer service background and, you know, Shelton's definition of hospitality is a very emotional one. Um, it allows our guests or potential guests to make an emotional connection, um, which is super important. Uh, but it allows me to take a very practical approach to hospitality. And for me, hospitality is all about managing guest expectations. Um, if I do my job and accurately describe the experience for a potential guest, and they are able to opt into that experience, Uh, then I am in a much better position to over deliver based on what hospitality means to them. Um, everybody is different, and if someone's view of hospitality is a five star hotel with [00:05:00] luxurious amenities, unfortunately, I'm going to fail all day

long.

But, you know, if their definition of hospitality is something unique and different and outdoor centered, uh, but convenient to all the amenities of Asheville, uh, and they know what they're getting, we're going to be able to over deliver and get great reviews on Google, which we do. And that's a very practical approach to it from my perspective.

Dan Ryan: The world of outdoor experience, hospitality, or outdoor leisure. I don't know what they call it these days. It's really amazing to me because not only do you have, The cabins, the beds, the tents, the hotels, whatever the place of sleeping is, and the F& B. There's so much about experience and connecting to the outdoors, and it must make for an infinitely complex, uh, way to hit people's expectations. Because they may [00:06:00] have all of these ideas of outdoor experience from, they want a zipline or canoe or river raft or, I don't know, go, Shoot bows and arrows, or I don't know, you name it, you can make all of that happen, but all of that must be a Rolodex of really great people you have to basically almost pre negotiate with, let them know you may have some people coming.

It might not be all the time, but we're gonna, we want to like really delight these people. Um, I want to get into that in a little bit because I think it's just like super complicated, but also such an opportunity to delight so many people. Um, I think the real, elephant in the room is, so we walked from, um, from our hotel all the way down the river, across the freeway to your hotel. And that was before the hurricane. Walk us through like, where you are right now. I see the Asheville forever flag [00:07:00] behind you, Joe, but you know, it was just complete devastation. And we're also coming on the heels of all the fires going on in Los Angeles. Um, Yeah, how do you want to summarize, like, convey, like, your experience from when I was there to where you are now?

Shelton Steele: was a lifetime ago, it was last summer that you were here, and I helped coordinate kind of the ILC route, and I sent you guys up through the River Arch District, and just to give you a sense of, you know, you personally, Dan, you know, you were at the Plebe Winery, um, my friend Chris Dinesha is the winemaker there, and um, that building completely washed away.

Mm And it is, it is a concrete pad and Chris and his team went back out, you know, a week or so after the storm and they didn't go out to salvage anything. They literally were looking for mementos to help them remember that the place, the place that no longer exists.

Dan Ryan: [00:08:00] And I, I just want to talk about the Plebe Winery also because I think it dovetails into what you guys have built and also all the other places that I went to in Asheville. If you haven't been to Asheville, go. It's awesome. It's so incredible. Um, topographically, Food wise, outdoor experience wise, but at this winery, they farmed most of their grapes.

I forget what town, but maybe near Boone. Was

Shelton Steele: Boom. That's correct.

Dan Ryan: Wow, look at that. My brain still works. But they said, look, you may taste this wine, and it may not taste like a wine that you've had before, but they basically said, we don't give a fuck because we're unapologetically Asheville. We're unapologetically North Carolina, and this is our experience of what wine is from this location. How does being, what is it being unapologetically Asheville mean to you now in light of everything that has happened?

Shelton Steele: Joe, you could, [00:09:00] you could tell him about how he came up with the name wrong way and then

Joe Balcken: Yeah, I,

I think it ties very well into. Um, Shelton's comment about a sense of place. Um, you know, Chris and his wines are unapologetically Asheville. Um, because it's different, it's independent, it's unique. That's very much a fingerprint of Asheville. Um, small businesses, independent businesses, uh, experiential.

Um, businesses do very well here in Asheville because you can't get those experiences anywhere else, but Asheville. So I think it's a reflection of somewhat of a counterculture, um, vibe here in Asheville that everybody, uh, very much digs and, you know, how that relates to our business when we were trying to come up [00:10:00] with a name, we had, you know, We started with dozens of names.

We narrowed it down to three names. And when we were, um, testing those in the market, um, we, we had one name that was very, I don't know, it felt like, uh, a, a neighborhood development, you know, Rough Ridge or something very standard and that tested very, very well. Everybody liked it. But it was just because it, it was on the surface.

Okay. But it didn't create any emotion, but there was just as many people that said wrong way, hell yeah. They were very emotional about that name. And even though it didn't. Have as many people that said, yes, all the people that did say yes about wrong way were like, that's it. You've got to go with it. [00:11:00] Um, wrong way, uh, is a nod to the French broad river. Right across the street from us that flows from south to north. It's one of the few rivers that flow from south to north. So we call it a wrong way river, but, uh, you know, there's plenty of people that would scratch their head about wrong way being our chosen name. Um, but once they discover what it means and. Get into the layers of that onion. Um, uh, that's when we get you and I challenge anyone to forget that name after you hear it,

Dan Ryan: it really resonated with me because I'm a font of useless information and I just, when I heard that the, it's one of the few northward flowing rivers, I was like, Oh, I knew that the longest northward flowing river in the United States is the St. John River in Nashville. And I was like, wow, that's really cool.

I, and then I thought about it. There aren't very many rivers. that flow northward. And [00:12:00] I think I love the story of your name because from a counterculture perspective, for those people who have not been to Asheville, I mean, there's so much incredible, just graffiti and food and just experimentation with so many businesses and artists.

And it's, I find it to be this little enclave of experimentation. Um, how has it been for you? Um, as far as in the aftermath and what it like, what kind of green shoots are you seeing from that kind of wrong way, uh, countercultural, uh, perspective?

Shelton Steele: I mean, there's It's still so raw. Um, you know, if you rewind to the, the actual storm, you know, so we had a flood and that was, you know, it was, it was the hurricane stacked on top of a bigger storm, a smaller storm before the hurricane. And then the waters came up, um, [00:13:00] and you know, devastated everything in our area.

There were strong winds. And then, As the waters receded, we kind of were able to get out and, and, and evaluate the level of devastation, you know, in and around our area, um, and the rebuilding is just going to take time. And one of my, my kind of mantras I've distilled from this, this disaster is, you know, everything's changed, nothing's going to be the same and that's okay, right?

I think, you know, if you. Look at some shared history that Joe and I have. Um, you know, we both worked on rivers at different points in our lives. Um, not as friends at that point. We actually met through adult soccer. Um, and played together for 20 years off and on. And, you know, as we were kind of sussing out what wrong way is, what's our connection to this place?

What's our connection to the French Broad River? Joe worked as a guide on the French Broad River. I worked as a kayak instructor on the French Broad River. And, you know, I think one of the things that you, you learn in working on [00:14:00] rivers is to have reverence for the river and nature because you cannot control nature and, and it's always more powerful than you are.

So, you know, that's, you're always just kind of dancing with it and try not to step on the river's feet, or I should say, let it step on yours, you know, so to, to see something of that magnitude happen kind of in our front yard. Was unimaginable, but at the same time, you know, rivers do that. They flood, you know, this is the highest recorded flood in history.

So for context, um, in 1916, there was a flood that was 23. 1 feet. Um, they started keeping records on the river in 1895 and then 2024. So this past year we were at 24. 6 feet and they, they declare a flood at nine, nine feet.

Dan Ryan: Wow. Yeah, it's like the thousand year flood and those numbers are happening more and more. Those thousand year [00:15:00] events are happening. More and more frequently, but I think it's a little misleading because that when they say thousand year It's really just the probability of that happening. It's like 0. 001 being a thousandth, right?

So and then I just say it's a thousand year it but as you're as you guys are talking and we spoke before the holidays I never got the sense of despair from you. I'm sure that's happened in private Okay, but um when I was in eighth grade, I had a classmate who passed away Brought us all together in a way, but I remember something we were talking about science fiction stuff before there was this movie Starman in the 80s I don't know if any of you saw it But the our principal or Dean He said to us and we had an assembly.

We all came together and he said You know, I want to bring this quote from Starman that really struck me, but it said it was an alien looking at people What's most remarkable about you [00:16:00] people, or you humans, or the human race, is that you tend to be at your best when you're at your worst. And, given everything that you've gone through, and like, thinking about hospitality and delivering for others, and What are some of those Going with that green shoot motive motif.

Like what is some of the best that's come out? I know like Amy, um, Amy Kelly, who owns the radical, she used her hotel to house first responders, and she's been raising money to help other people and entrepreneurs, and she's a former guest. And also she was at the ILC thing, but what, what are some of the. Best human qualities that you've seen come out over the past six months.

Shelton Steele: Um, you bet if I answer this one, Joe.

Joe Balcken: go for it.

Shelton Steele: I mean, the storm stripped everything away, you know, so we had no running water, no electricity, and for the most part, cell phones didn't work. [00:17:00] There was a couple of spots in town where you could get a cell signal. So, so in essence, it kind of, it stripped everyone back to just kind of the, the basic humanity.

And, you know, people, people published a newsletter in my neighborhood that they, they, they, they hand wrote and then. You know, posted on a central spot in the park, right? And that's how news was shared for a brief period. And, and what you had was, you know, people asking people, what do you need? How can I help?

And, you know, at its core, you know, a mountain town. You know, there's a, there's fierce independence here, but we all banded together to take care of one another. And, you know, whether that meant you took your freezer full of food to the one guy who had power, you know, on the other end of your neighborhood, and then you had big community dinners at his house because you could cook there.

Um, there were all these just really sweet moments where. There was nothing to do but be [00:18:00] present. You didn't need to take a picture of it. You weren't going to look at your social media account. It was just everybody getting together to share a meal or a whiskey drink and just talk about the day that they had had and share their hardships just in a way that allowed them to, to, Decompress and get ready to, to do it all over again the next day.

Dan Ryan: And so analog, right? It's at base. It's, it's that, that idea of, of, of, of a meeting place, of a gathering point, of, of a hearth where you're sharing these stories. Things have come back, but are there any elements of that that you're still seeing that in that counterculture, wrong way, mountain town, um, that will stick around? Or do people just get too busy and it just all goes away? And back to normal.

Joe Balcken: I think that there's something that sticks around, you know, I think before COVID, before this event, you know, you, you [00:19:00] really chose who you hung out with because you can drive to the brewery or drive to a club or, you know, you didn't always have to interact with your neighbors. Especially if you didn't like them, but,

you know, you When we saw COVID, you know, what everybody was forced to do was not gather in those typical places and not necessarily get to see their typical, you know, groups. And everyone was kind of forced out onto the road, uh, to interact with their neighbors. And myself and many others, uh, formed some bonds with their neighbors. Because they were never forced to prior to that. And I think that had some lasting effects and it was sort of replicated in this. I mean, I remember the day after, several days after, you know, we spent a lot of time just thinking about it. Getting on the [00:20:00] chainsaw and getting people out of the neighborhood so they could go get groceries eventually, find a spot to call their loved ones in other towns. It was neighbors helping neighbors. And, you know, when, when those connections are made and they're made in such kind of, you know, Really dire circumstances.

Those bonds persist beyond an event like this.

And, you know, I, I, I've seen that kind of spider web outside of the neighborhoods when people come together for free food events, like we did, uh, in the Iwana neighborhood here. Um, it's just, people are forced to make connections for different reasons, um, beyond what they did before. And I think that's when some of those bonds are made that persist beyond it.

Shelton Steele: Yeah. I, I would, I would echo that and, and, and say, you know, even in the business [00:21:00] community, you know, you, you did see fiercely and we do have fiercely independent businesses. Right. And, you know, in a lot of ways, um, if you're successful as a local independent business, you know, you, you kind of have to focus on what's in front of you.

In order to keep growing your business. And what this has done is it's allowed everyone to kind of. Because, you know, let's just call it what it was. We had an October that was a literal goose egg and that is our busiest month of the year. It's what gets everyone through the winter. Joe calls it the grain silo month.

You know, it's what we store all our revenue up so that we can make it through right now. And, you know, it was a goose egg. And so you're seeing businesses come together, form, you know, different kinds of groups that are co marketing, you know, uh, engaging with the city on redevelopment plans, really just sharing ideas and, and resources in order to figure out not just how to build [00:22:00] back better, but how to build back together.

Dan Ryan: so much about the entrepreneurial journey is oftentimes we're like, we're standing at the edge, not knowing what's next. You're in that crucible. It's like, Holy shit. Like, um, if you were to go back to when you first had like, tell us about when you first had the idea to create this amazing place. Um, and then you, I'm sure you've stared over the edge a couple of times, but then. How did, give us a couple of times where you stood at the edge as an entrepreneur, I guess, finish off with like the hurricane and the aftermath, but how has it made you better partners and better, better people?

Shelton Steele: Yeah. You know, if you start with this idea, Joe and I came at it, Kind of independently, right? So in [00:23:00] 2018, uh, another close friend of mine and I were, we had found a camping site in town, a developer friend owns some property, um, that was a big field on a Creek and he said, Hey, go camp there anytime. And so I call it my brown liquor brainstorming moment.

We were sitting around the campfire and we had done it a half dozen times over the summer and I said, damn, this is, this is what people want to do when they come to Asheville, right? I mean, Asheville, you see kayaks on top of cars, there's mountain bikes, you know, 10, 000 mountain bikes on the backs of cars.

It is an outdoor town and we, you know, it just made sense that there was, there was the missing piece of the lodging puzzle was, uh, an outdoor focused hotel. And so you fast forward to 2000, winter of 2019 and Joe and I are back on an adult soccer team together. Uh, and in the kick around, literally been there 10 minutes and we're knocking the ball around and we immediately, he's, he's talking about, [00:24:00] he wants to get out of his corporate job.

He has an idea about a lodging business. I tell him my idea about the lodging business and you know, we go out for beers afterwards and boom, we're off to the races, right? And then we went under contract on this piece of land during COVID. So in a lot of ways COVID Was, was kind of our, our angel in the corner because it allowed us to extend, to do more research, to figure out the problems that we kept uncovering as we were figuring out how to make, you know, a lodging property work on a steep slope that's 2.

2 acres, you know, in a floodplain. It had all these, these different challenges. Um, and I would say, you know, as we unlocked the, the challenge of construction, in a lot of ways, You know, for me, that was, that was my crucible. That was my part of the partnership. And, you know, once we opened up, I really felt [00:25:00] like we were off to the races, you know, and Joe's got this.

Funny way of kind of bringing me back to earth. And he'll tell me, you know, the hard stuff is the good stuff. So, you know, don't, don't, don't shy away from it because, you know, it's, it's going to be hard and it's going to be rewarding, but you can't have the big rewards without the hardships. Um, and so we, you know,

Joe Balcken: He, he, he loves when I, when I say that, when things are hard, but by the way,

Shelton Steele: yeah,

he gets, yeah, I usually respond to something sarcastic, like, thanks dad.

Hey everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now. And one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability. And I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor Berman Falk Hospitality Group is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more [00:26:00] info.

Dan Ryan: I, I agree with that too. I know, uh, just personally going on vacation with the family, you know, we, you have your breaks, you go on vacations as the kids grow up. I always find the most memorable ones looking back are the ones where everything went sideways. Like you missed the plane, you slept in the airport. Who knows? The ones where everything goes wrong, it kind of stinks when you're going through it until it happens so many times that you're like, no, there is going to be good here. I know it. So, but it

takes a lot of times. So, so Joe really has the muscle developed of, of the calamities. So he knows that it will always get better and be more rewarding.

Shelton Steele: that's the contrast between our two. Our two personalities, right? I am the eternal optimist, right? And, you know, so when we were raising money and the millions got bigger, you know, Joe was like, holy shit, man. I'm like, no, we got this. We got it. We got it. You know? And, and, [00:27:00] and, you know, he's, he, he, he tempers my optimism with, with a lot of reality and I'm grateful for that.

But there was a moment a couple of months ago where I walked in one morning and just looked at him and said, Is it hard enough yet? Because it's pretty, pretty hard right now.

Joe Balcken: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, those crucible moments, COVID was one of them, you know, clarifying the timing of that. We went under contract before COVID, but it was a 90 day due diligence. And the 90 days put us into March of 2020. So we basically went into COVID with, you know, Hey, we're going to start this new business.

And then by March of 2020, we were almost signing on the dotted line. Literally. And then, you know, we said, wait a minute, is the world going to be the same? Are people kind of still vacation or, you know, [00:28:00] come to Asheville? Um, so that 90 days turned into a year due diligence. Um, and during that time we had enough, um, kind of cover to plan and design wrong way because it was not easy. Um, and then when we opened, uh, Like you said, you know, we thought it was going to be off to the racers, but we had a couple more crucible moments after that, the flood being the biggest

really of all that, and we're still in it. And, you know, we moved very quickly after the flood to, um, remediate. You know, get everything out.

We knew that there was going to be moisture and mold mitigation that we had to do. So it was very heads down, blinders on. We knew, you know, step by step, day by day that action could be taken towards a goal, which is to get reopened. [00:29:00] As of the end of last year, we are fully operational. All of our cabins are open, repaired. Uh, and now we're at this moment where we have to pick our head up and we go, holy shit. You know, what's happening with Asheville, what's happening with tourism in Asheville, are people going to come back? Uh, and all of that is, you know, pretty much out of our control. Um, whereas when we were rebuilding, it was very much within our control. So it gets a little scary when you go from, you know, day by day, knowing what you need to get done to now we're picking our heads up and go on. How

are we going to get people to come?

Yeah,

not to use a, Apple.

Dan Ryan: not to use like a, another flood metaphor, but you got to almost wait for the tide to come in, which is all those things that are out of your control. Um, I want to also, I know I painted a little bit of picture and I'll put it on the YouTube part of [00:30:00] this and we'll also have links to it, but. It's really remarkable. I know that, you know, building, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone intentionally building in a floodplain before. So, but I don't know a lot of people. But the way that you built them with these, uh, concrete platforms, what are they, 10 or 15 feet above ground level?

Shelton Steele: they range from 10 to 16 feet.

Dan Ryan: Oh, okay. So, and then the cabins, which are these super awesome cabins, are situated on top of them. And it's up against this, this, uh, retaining wall or steep incline, which actually, if you, the whole valley turned into a river, which actually turned, so the water came up, but it was in an eddy, if you will, right? So you didn't really have a lot of damage. Um, I mean, you had damage just from the rising water, but it wasn't from the torrent of chocolate milk coming down the valley. And in some ways, Intentionally placing that there and situating everything that the [00:31:00] way you did, even with the thousand year flood, it's remarkable how well everything together.

Shelton Steele: Yeah, I feel a lot of gratitude. I, there's a moment when we were excavating the site to put the walls in that we would end up building underneath, and way up in the top of the property they excavated a band of river rock, and I picked up one of the river rocks, you know, the size of a new potato in my hand.

And I just kind of laughed, you know, because I said, whew, that was a big flood. You know, that was a long time ago before recorded, they recorded river levels and, you know, just, just that kind of knowledge that, okay, maybe we are in the flood plane. And so, you know, our project is really, you know, creative problem solving more than anything that the cabins sit on.

Um, 18 inch by 18 inch concrete piers. There are four piers per cabin. And then they, the actual cabin is tied to the piers on a steel I beam system. Um, and the way you [00:32:00] build in the floodplain is you're, at this moment in time, you're required to build two feet above base flood elevation. That's the law here.

And so each cabin had its own flood elevation, flood certificate, if you will. And. They're all situated at different heights related to this big plane that is, you know, out on our side of the river and on the other side of the river. Um, and in doing so, you know, we unlocked a couple different problems.

One, we created parking spaces underneath each of them. Which parking is always a headache, you know, it's a hard thing to dedicate land to, but if it's lodging, everyone wants their own personal parking spot. Um, so similar to a beach house, you pull in right underneath these cabins and then we oriented the front doors back into the hillside so that when we had to bench the hillside, create a big flat bench.

Um, and there's a wall on the lower side and a wall on the upper side. Um, we actually made that into the walkway. And so all the cabins exit out onto [00:33:00] a common walkway that we call the cabin trail. And then there are multiple stairways that get you down to your parking spaces. And in that cabin trail dead ends back into our river lodge with the, you know, kind of exit through the gift shop idea.

Dan Ryan: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, remarkable. Given what you've known now, do you think that there, you would ever build in a floodplain again, or is there a competitive advantage to making use of, um, kind of more risky? Land?

Joe Balcken: I mean, I will say that I look at floodplain development somewhat differently, um, but you know, I, I'm, I'm not going to be prescriptive for anyone, but the, the laws and zoning requirements are in place for good reason. We're a reflection of that. You know, we did build to those standards and. We were, um, dealing with [00:34:00] soaked furniture and drywall and instead of, you know, entirely destroyed structures, so that was really good.

We built for the flood, we had a historic flood, and we are now fully operational. So I think the requirements that are there are there for a good reason. It's resiliency, but you know, as with everything, there's a balance.

Mm.

And, you know, there are other businesses and other property owners that are dealing with the aftermath of this flood in a much, much different way with much different impacts and much different decisions.

And so, and those things are very personal to them. So I'm not going to tell anybody how they should or shouldn't, you know, go about those, those problems and those decisions.

Dan Ryan: I love how you were sharing how it was great when you can control the things you can control. Rebuilding, getting it open, so now you're [00:35:00] fully, your Death Star is fully operational. Just to bring it back to another science fiction reference. Um, when you think about, or if you could share that idea of the, of the, the things that are out of your control coming back to Nashville. Tourism, conferences, um, just overall tourism back to Asheville. What are some of the things that you're hearing, or, for instance, like, Independent Lodging Congress did a, an event there last summer, but, if you, if you had a magic wand, what, what would you, what spell would you cast to have that tide start rising?

What are, what are some things that people are listening that, uh, they might consider if they haven't, um, to help Asheville get Back to operational.

Joe Balcken: Yeah. I mean, if I had a wand, I would, you know, try and make everybody that is considering Asheville [00:36:00] vacation in the near term, feel comfortable that they can have fun in Asheville while still respecting the disaster, I think a lot of people are a little bit cautious about vacationing in Asheville, considering that there's still a lot of. Uh, businesses and individuals and residents, you know, that are still picking up the pieces. Um, and so they, they, they almost feel bad about that. Not, I would say part of our recovery is tourism and we very much, I mean, if I were a local giving anyone permission, which I know I'm not, I'm not in a place to give anyone permission, but I would say. Locals, um, benefit, our economy benefits from tourism and people having fun in Asheville and [00:37:00] A big impact of this flood was on our economy and those businesses that rely on tourism. So if we are going to get ourselves out of this, part of the solution is going to be tourism. So, um, you know, we very much want people to return to Asheville. It's still a great city. There are areas that, you know, are going to take. Months and years to recover, um, but downtown Asheville was, you know, is still awesome. There's plenty of places to go. It was untouched by and large. Um, the mountains handled the water beautifully, uh, and that was, that, that's a big draw for people.

So there's, there's plenty to see and do here in Asheville and we want people to come back and do

Shelton Steele: Yeah. There's been a lot of references to Katrina, Dan, right. And, and, and kind of New Orleans recovery from that disaster. Um, and, you know, they said it took [00:38:00] a couple of years for them to get back, but they actually, you know, they outpaced tourism prior to that, that hurricane. Um, and, you know, I think people listening, you know, you, you, If, whether you're, you know, taking a sales retreat somewhere, you know, that's a big part of our business here at Wrong Way is group business.

So sales retreats, nonprofit, um, any kind of team building. We're, we're, we're great in the sense that everybody gets their own cabin and then there's a workspace that you can meet and get your business done, but ultimately, you know, At the end of the day, they're, they're sitting around a campfire, sharing stories and kind of connecting one to one.

And I feel like that's, that's kind of the, the magic that happens, um, at wrong way, but you know, as people do come back, I think that the invitation is like Joe said, is to have fun and to, to, to come do the things that you've always done here. You know, we want to evoke that emotion from people. You know, we want you to come celebrate the birthday parties.

[00:39:00] Um, you know, like I said, you know, bring the families here and just enjoy this place that is our home. And in doing so that helps everybody stand back up, you know? So it's, it's, it's not, it's not send money to the GoFundMe accounts anymore. That was, that was wonderful. And it had a place. And we're, we're grateful, but you know, now it's, it's truly just an invitation to come, you know, be a guest in our town.

Dan Ryan: thank you for sharing that because actually I'm in a forum in entrepreneurs organization. And we, every year we go on a retreat. One of my forum mates, they live in Western North Carolina and we have a retreat coming up in May. So. I'm going to, I have our monthly meeting tomorrow morning. I'm just going to bring it up and say, Hey, we haven't figured it out.

Let's let's check out Asheville. So I can't promise anything, but I think that's a really great way to make a small. I don't know, a small contribution to get that tide coming back.

Shelton Steele: Absolutely.

Dan Ryan: I'm also going to talk to Meg [00:40:00] who's now got, uh, she got, uh, promoted. I forget what her, I called her the grand poobah of the independent lodging Congress, but maybe we can have a reboot there and just kind of pull it up from our, from our shoestrings again.

So I don't want to put words in her mouth. And she's probably already got everything scheduled out cause she's so on top of it. But, uh, I'll, I'll raise that. And I guess anyone, any other listeners, if you're thinking about, Give it a try. I mean, Asheville is one of my favorite places in the United States.

Um, food, beer, outdoor activities. It's really a fantastic place. I really enjoy it.

Shelton Steele: So do I.

Dan Ryan: Yeah. Whatever we can do. I gotta, and I, I have to check in with Amy as well, because I know like there are a couple of ground floors got flooded out, but I I'm hopeful that

Oh,

Joe Balcken: Yeah, they, they just reopened, uh, last week, I

believe.

Dan Ryan: Oh, great. So the radical is open. Um, [00:41:00] yeah, it's such a fantastic place. Um, so I know that we spent a lot of time looking backwards, but if Shelton will start with you, um, and maybe it's hard to think about this, but what's exciting you most about what you're seeing in the future?

Shelton Steele: Um, I, I, I think there's a real opportunity for Asheville and Western North Carolina to kind of redefine itself post flood. Um, It was a change agent and I'm excited to see what changes materialize. Um, I'm also looking forward to, to, to guests coming back, um, and kind of participating in, you know, our economy, the recup, our rec, economic recovery.

Um, you know, the brightest moments for me as, as, as the, you know, co owner of this, this property is, is really watching our guests interact with the property and, you know, showing us a new and fun way to, to use the property, whether it's a [00:42:00] celebration or, you know, um, a New Year's Eve party like we just had, um, a few weeks ago.

Dan Ryan: And Joe, how about you?

Joe Balcken: Yeah, I, I think that for sure, and in particular in, in spaces like the River Arts District, um, you know, that was such a, a cool spot and an upcoming spot. It was being revitalized and reimagined. It used to be heavily industrial, um, and it was. really on this trajectory. To become something really, really cool.

And I think in some ways the flood has kind of, you know, washed away the barriers that may have allowed it to evolve into that thing that it can be. You know, it's not a slam dunk, the vision is not clear. Um, there's a lot of conversations about whether we should or should [00:43:00] not even develop in floodplains, which is a totally appropriate conversation to have. Um, but, uh, you know, I think those types of conversations will balance again, the resiliency. with making a place like the River Arts District into a really, really cool spot to be. Um, it's so central to Asheville. It's got such a cool vibe. Um, you know, The arts culture is such a big part of Asheville, um, and the River Arts District in particular was a, was a hub. Um, we really want that to come back with, with arts as its

center again.

Mm hmm.

Dan Ryan: thinking about the future, and what's exciting about the future, as it pertains to, Asheville at large, but in particular, your property at the wrong way. Um, take that business group, that forum I was talking about, [00:44:00] or even a, uh, a family or a family reunion, if you will, coming together, what can they expect?

What does, walk us through what like a three or four day weekend could look like for me, for them, um, coming in there and checking out, like based on like what some of the best reviews you've ever gotten are.

Shelton Steele: Yeah, that's a fun one. We, we, you know, groups that check in here, everyone has their own cabin. So, you know, right from the get go, you're entering into your Cabin, and you've got this kind of sense of, you know, independence from your work retreat, where you've got your own private space, you know, every cabin has either a balcony or a porch that kind of connects you to the outdoors.

And then, you know, It's Asheville's dining scene is remarkable, you know, so groups tend to do big dinners out in town, um, you know, followed by coming back to wrong way and nestling in around a [00:45:00] campfire and kind of winding the night, the evening down, you know, we have two different workspaces on our property.

Uh, one is an eight person conference room that we call the boardroom. So great for smaller groups. And then we have a larger event space called the Eddie, um, like a still moving area of water on a river. Um, That will seat up to 32. So it hosts kind of like our full property buyouts. If you buy out 16 cabins, that type of group would be in that space.

So you do, uh, always recommend no, no more than a three quarter work day, right? So you have the afternoon to get outside. Um, the Greenway is just across the street from our property. So if you hop on the Greenway as a group, you'd walk to the River Arts District in less than a mile and, you know, post up at the Wedge Brewery that you were at, which is, you know, Bohemian outdoor beer garden with craft beer and all the different walks of Asheville life there to see.

Um, you know, we do outdoor dinners in our meadow space that sits up above the cabins and looks out over the river in the [00:46:00] Biltmore Estate. Um, those are remarkable and super memorable. Um, but it's really the time in between the meetings that I feel like our property allows for connection and, you know, making a memory that, you know, It's fundamental to kind of be in a great work team.

Dan Ryan: And then as far as other, if they wanted to engage in some other outdoor activities or things, maybe that's where where Joe pops in, but as far as rafting or zip lining or hiking or like, what are those other experiences that make your life? Awesome, because you're able to deliver on those experiences, Joe.

Joe Balcken: Yeah, we, we're actually really lucky in that there are so many outdoor outfitters, experienced providers, um, small businesses that were already established in Asheville prior to us even coming online. And [00:47:00] one of our advantages in particular is we come from the outdoor industry. Um, we participate in outdoor activities. We're also locals. So we knew we had a network. We knew, um, who the best providers in each of those kind of respective experience domains were already. And we created essentially a network of those providers. You can go, for instance, you can go on our website and we have an experiences page that recommends Uh, you know, like a rafting, whitewater rafting company, a zip lining company, an e mountain biking company, um, just about every experience you can think of that's in the outdoor space, we can connect you with that.

Because as I said, everybody's different. So you might have Somebody that's, you know, really into the outdoors, uh, that wants to do [00:48:00] something, um, that's, uh, extreme like whitewater rafting north of here in the Marshall area. But you might also have folks that we call outdoor curious that, you know, want something a little bit more, uh, tame.

But is dipping their toe into those waters. Uh, it's part of our mission to connect people with the outdoor experience, whether they be, uh, you know, one of those people that's outdoor active, and they've been that way for many, many years, or someone that's curious about it, and they would never be, uh, they would never opt into a traditional campground, um, and they very much appreciate the amenities that we have to offer as a non traditional campground. And then connecting them with the outdoors in our way, um, you know, who knows where that could snowball to. So we, we call ourselves the, the gateway to the [00:49:00] outdoors.

Dan Ryan: Love it. Um, and then on a final note, I know I brought this up at the beginning, Joe, but has your daughter repainted the murals? And if anyone's looking at, these murals were so awesome, so if there's any designers out there that want someone to go to work and paint some cool murals, his daughter did an incredible job painting those murals in each of the cabins.

have

they,

has she repainted?

Joe Balcken: she, she actually did them over winter break.

Uh,

Dan Ryan: out.

Joe Balcken: yeah,

Phoebe Balkan, Phoebe Balkan. She's, uh, she's in interior design at, uh, Western Carolina University right now. She just had headed back, uh, this past weekend, but, um, and we shared some pictures of the new murals on our, uh, social, uh, pages. was it?

Was it over the weekend,

Shel? But, but basically it's a similar, um, perspective, you know, the layered Blue Ridge mountains, [00:50:00] but we added a little difference. We added a river winding through the mountains and we, we call those cabins that, uh, got impacted by the flood are river touched cabins. So, uh, there's a little bit difference, um, in some of our cabins compared

to the other ones.

Dan Ryan: Oh, fantastic. Phoebe, great work. I really appreciated it. So, um, who knows? Maybe this will get someone sending you an RFP to do some

Joe Balcken: She's ready to go. She's got a sales sheet I

helped her with. So

let,

Dan Ryan: she

have

a

website

too?

Joe Balcken: no, no, she hasn't gotten that far,

maybe after college, but she, she has taken on some, some side jobs and I'm

I'm sure

Dan Ryan: Oh, fantastic. Well, well, gentlemen, I've enjoyed all of this. I know it's been a long time and you've had so much happen since we were in person. Um, but I hope to get out there in the next six months. Um, if anyone wanted to learn [00:51:00] more about you or wrong way, um, What's the best way for them to do that? To get in touch or learn more?

Shelton Steele: Yeah. You can check us out on our website and then we're on Instagram and Facebook as well. Um, we have a LinkedIn page, um, but all the inquiry forms go to either Joe or me, so you'll get us

Dan Ryan: Perfect. No, this has been fantastic. I thank you guys. Um, I can't imagine all the ups and downs. Just so extreme, all the crucibles, um, and I wish you continue to success. And if this helps in any way, shape, or form, um, it's my absolute pleasure.

Shelton Steele: Thank you, Dan.

Joe Balcken: Dan.

Shelton Steele: Been a fun conversation. We'll see you back in Asheville. Okay.

Dan Ryan: Yes, Asheville forever. Hashtag Asheville forever.

Um, and to my listeners, um, If this Change your ideas about starting a hotel or inspire you to do so, or even at the very least, not build in a floodplain. Um, please [00:52:00] pass it along to someone else. And please reach out to Joe and Shelton because I think that their experience and stories, um, I'm sure they'd be able to pay it forward as far as their experience. Um, they're,

yeah, they're just, They're just good people and they have an incredible property. Um, don't forget to like subscribe and do all that other stuff. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We'll catch you next time.