Defining Hospitality

DH - Meg Gutowski
===

Speaker: [00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together, we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.

This podcast is sponsored by Berman Falk Hospitality Group, a design driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Today's guest is a skilled events guru. She's highly focused on enhancing attendee delight and building relationships.

She brings over 10 years of experience in the hospitality industry, working previously for Merrymakers, NYC events, Corinthian Yacht Club and various F& B companies. She is currently recently promoted to, I might add, the vice president of the Independent Lodging Congress. And I also gave her [00:01:00] the title, Because I appreciate everything she does so much of Grand Puba. Ladies and gentlemen, Meg Gutowski. Welcome Meg.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Thank you, Dan. Nice to be here.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Grand Puba.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Puba. So honored. I'm going to add it to my LinkedIn.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: You should

actually, that's a great jumping off point because, um, obviously I've been involved and on the board of independent lodging Congress. I think that it's, it's one of the organizations within our industry that I just think on such an intimate level really, um, presses people into a crucible and forces. New relationships to bud and germinate, like those plants on the wall behind you, but it's done in, uh, in like such a, and I know, I hate to bring Bashar into this, but like, it's done in such already, it's done in such an authentic way, um, and it's engineered, it's not by accident, and I know we're going to talk about that, and I think a lot of that will have to do with [00:02:00] With my next question or first question to you, but you've worked in all these different facets of hospitality and now you're the grand pooba of the independent lodging Congress.

And for those of you who have not been to an ILC event,

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: What are you doing?

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: yeah, what are you doing? Just go. It's awesome. You'll be, you'll be delighted. what's keeping you in hospitality? What does it mean to you?

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah, for me, the planning and providing this experience for people. Um, something that's unexpected and also providing that experience that is expected and trying to figure out the right combination of the two so that it feels very. magical, but also you feel like you're taken care of. That's, that's kind of how hospitality has been running through my brain for the last 10, 15 years, however long I've been doing this.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Okay, and then from the 10 or 15 years to now being promoted to vice president, especially more, like, more heavily weight this answer in your current [00:03:00] role, or not even current role, but since you've been at ILC, how do you, like, make all of that happen? Like, what are some of the, the, the tricks of the trade, so to speak, that you've done, like, the actual practice of hospitality, tactically?

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah. Yeah. I think for my personal experience, I think F& B work is. The best way to start anything, that's just my personal opinion about getting into hospitality. You have to be such a jack of all trades, a jill of all trades, a Swiss army knife. Um, and you have to do it while people are looking at you too.

Like if you're a waitstaff, if you're a bartender. Um, and so I think that you kind of, Get this appreciation for being able to do a lot of things at once, especially if you have a couple of tables or if you're running a banquet, you have all these different people who are going to be participating in this experience and you have to manage all of those expectations and your time and multiple tasks and work in a team.

You know, [00:04:00] have a leadership. And so it is, uh, for me, I think having started in F& B, I was a, a cater waitress when I was 17 and I did bridal attendance, which is if anyone doesn't know, I call it very fondly brides bitch, where you get to follow a bride around for like 13 hours and just whatever they need, you do.

You do it. Um, and you just see everything from start to finish of the most important day of someone's life. And so you just get an appreciation for detail. Um, but then, you know, next week you go back and you have a totally different bride. You have a totally

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: And you also probably get to see the best of people and the worst of people

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: I have seen some crazy, yeah, wedding work is especially high end wedding work.

Um, I worked at a luxury venue, Tracy Morgan got married there. Um, yeah, some very high ups in the fashion industry had got married there. So I'm like a 17 year old kid just like, what is Jimmy Choo?

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Yeah.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Who is Jimmy Choo?

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Yeah. [00:05:00] Grab the box of Kleenex. Achoo! So, actually, that's a great, uh, transition into this. Well, you said something that was really great, and I want to wrap it into something else, and I'm

going to get there in a second. But you said, working in F& B, it's, it's almost

like, uh, it's like this really forced practice where, while people are looking at

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yes.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: But I think that So much of what has made you and Independent Lodging Congress successful is all the things that you do when people aren't looking,

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: And I think that ties back into the first thing. So I want to come back. I want to plant that. But first, What's it like, like, what if you were to compare Andrew Benioff, the founder, to a bride? walk

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Andrew is easy. He's, you know, I always say I feel very lucky, um, that I have landed where I have, [00:06:00] especially having been, you know, promoted a couple of times now because he's probably one of the first, he probably is the first, um, boss. And he hates when I call him that, that

trust, he's my first boss that trusts me. And quite frankly, prefers to just let me do what I need to do and doesn't have to micromanage and Um, respects the process of like, Hey, I have no idea what's going on.

I trust you just go do it. Um, that being said, he's very involved with everything. And so I don't ever feel like I'm kind of a fish out of water and not knowing what's going on, especially this, you know, I'm new to the hotel world. So there's a lot of people, a lot of players, um, that I don't know. I've never worked in the hotel space before.

So planning a conference that's like exclusively around independent hotels is like very new to me. And so, um, I just never felt like I was totally on my own, but he's, Just, you know, figured out the process of like, find people who are good at what they do and empower them to do it. And so I [00:07:00] feel lucky for

that.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: wanted you to bite harder on Andrew being the bride, but I guess, but you know what? I really,

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Some things, some things,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: the dream, he's the dream bride.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: yeah, yeah, here, I can give you, I can anecdote for you if you want, if that's what you're looking for.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: So we just had, um, uh, our Congress at Cavallo Point Lodge over in Sausalito. And because he was there, uh, he had brought his wife with him and he was like, I want to stay far away from the rest of the conference.

And, and Sausalito has, or, um, Cavallo Point has all these like beautiful individual cabins or, you know, it was a fort. Um, so there's just different barracks and buildings. And so it's built in a hill. And I, I asked for one of the farthest rooms away and it was like, a mile uphill away from everything. And he was like, why am I so far away?

I was like, you literally asked me to be as far away as possible. And when I came through, it was, it was, it was too far.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Oh, yeah, he was probably on, like, some, some retired, [00:08:00] like, artillery pad to defend the mouth of the, of the, of the San Francisco Bay. And they, they built, they threw a cabin up on it.

that's a really beautiful, um, location. I

actually worked on, I did the furniture there when it, I think it was, like, just a Um, a decommissioned barracks and

an army base and then they turned it into a hotel and I did that first, uh, renovation of it or repositioning of it.

It was pretty, it's pretty awesome.

Um,

I want to go back to the comment that resonated with me that you said, because I'm glad we got the little comedy bits in about, Bridezilla Andrew, but you said for F& B you get this baptism by fire while people are looking at

you, and it reminds me of, I don't know, when I, if I was in high school, I had this one great drama teacher, Mr.

Richens, he was awesome, but he said, like, when you're up on stage, Even if you're not in the speaking role or singing, just know there's an audience of people and

everyone is looking at you, whether you think they are or

not. Someone's

always looking at you. Not everyone, but someone is [00:09:00] like, for just, you got to like, stay in character.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: You're being watched.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: But I think what's so wonderful about ILC, from my perspective, is all the things that happen When you're not being watched. And what I mean by that is I say this in a way, and I don't want to detract any of you or your whole team or Andrew's efforts. Um, but I think it's intentional. It's by design, but it's when people say, what's it like, what's ILC like?

I said, you know what? It's just like intentionally and wonderful or wonderfully and intentionally. Disorganized in certain moments. That creates these collision points where I think one of the, there's so many small things that I don't even. Know that you do behind the scenes. But one of them is at almost everyone I've been to, there's a, an event outside of wherever the event is.

So you go to an ice cream shop and you're walking

and you, you invariably you're walking, everyone gets strung out and you [00:10:00] strung out in a line, not on the thing. Maybe, maybe they're,

maybe they're passing cocktails back and forth. That could happen. Um, but you wind up pairing up and talking to people that you probably wouldn't have talked to if you were just sitting in a regular event. Um, and I think that those walk in talks, I don't even know if that's what they're called, but like, they're just so incredible. And I've for years wanted to be incorporating that into my, Just vocation and

like whether I'm doing a podcast here and walking and talking to someone getting wireless mics or just, Hey, instead of having a meeting in your office, can we just walk around the block?

I could

probably take care of what I want to, but like, what are some of those other like intentionally and wonderfully, they're not disorganized, but they allow for, I like that using that wrong way river, um, idea. Like there's a river, but then Eddie's Like the current's going one way, and then these eddies go the other way, and it just allows for this, uh, these collisions to happen.

Like, what [00:11:00] are, like, what's the thinking behind that, and what are some other, um, tactics that you guys do behind the scenes when people aren't looking?

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah. I mean, a lot of, a lot of the conference is about the content as well, but I do think that, One of the big things people love is the meeting people. And it's kind of like the, just meet people where you are kind of vibe, which is really nice because I don't know, I had to go to a couple of trade shows or conferences.

Luckily, that wasn't something I had to do for quite some time because it's actually, personally, I think they're a nightmare. Um, I had to do bridal shows. I did like food shows when I worked, um, more in like food based companies. Um, and they just feel so stiff and weird. And. I don't know. I just feel like people don't interact that way.

Or like you walk, you're walking around and you just feel like everyone's staring at you. And like, they all are trying to get your attention and your business. And you're like, you don't even want to make eye contact with someone. Cause they're like, do you want to buy my Nespresso machine? And you're like, no, I actually, I don't.

And then you have to like [00:12:00] back out of this awkward conversation. Um, and so one of my big focuses when I had taken this job, again, I didn't really know too much about the space, the content, but for me, as much of a, of an outgoing person as I am. I feel very strange, like, inserting myself randomly into conversations because you don't want to be rude or you don't want to, you know, if someone's already doing something, you don't want to be, you know, interjecting yourself in a space where you're not wanted.

And so trying to just, Make it a very level playing ground, um, in things like the immersive experience, which is the first day, or you're walking or you're on a bus or whatever. I call it like an adult field trip, um, is kind of how I look at it because I don't know, when's the last time that you like got on a bus with a bunch of strangers that like, wasn't for transport purposes, like you're traveling

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: When I was chaperoning

my kids

field trips.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: exactly, And so the concept of it is like, You're sitting and you get put into a group and you're [00:13:00] like, well, I kind of know that kid from the other class, but I don't really have anything in common with them. But then you're stuck sitting next to each other on the bus and you realize, Oh my God, we both love Spider Man and you're just like shooting the shit and you figure out that you have something in common.

And so creating those, accidental on purpose moments to just initiate conversation and just kind of get the ball rolling. And it doesn't feel like you're impeding in somebody's business transaction or whatever.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: you're not trying to sell someone an espresso machine. And actually that goes into one of the things I actually appreciate about ILC is at the beginning and having hosted or emceed a couple of those. It's always really important that you read the credo first. And I don't

have the credo

memorized, but for everyone listening,

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: not?

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: well, I, in spirit, I know what, I know what it is.

I'm going to, I'll do my best to say what it is, but actually this is the moment where I just want the listeners. I'm imagining me holding like a frying pan. I'm hitting you in the face right now with this. Like [00:14:00] if you haven't gone to an ILC conference. Or you've been thinking about it, just go. Because like, it's just so wonderfully different from everything else.

And for instance, the credo goes something like, Hey, welcome all here. I'm so glad all of you are here. We all have so many in common, whether it's you like Spider Man, like you just said, or who knows, um, just take your time to like pull the mask off. Talk to the person next to you. Don't try and sell them anything right away.

Like that may happen. Focus on like the heart of the person next to you focus on what their biggest need is. It might have nothing to do with you, but I bet you you'll know someone that you could introduce them to. Once you get to know them, then you can talk about the, what you do, but we're all there because of our shared why. How did, but that credo wasn't always read. You know, when the credo started being read, right? By the way, that was not verbatim, but that

I got, I got 80 percent of

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: It was pretty good. Yeah. It is [00:15:00] like connecting with genuine intention. Um, everybody is welcome, you know, independent lodging, not independent lodging. You work kind of in hotels. You don't work in hotels. Like it is an ideas sharing as well. Yeah. Um, and so it is very much just like show up as who you are as a person.

And that kind of is enough for the rest of what you're trying to accomplish at the event. It's I've actually, just cause I'm interested in like human, like activity. I started asking people after some of these events, cause I, this will be, I've been here two years now. Um, just asking people. You know, what was an experience you had, or what are you looking to get out of this event, or what have you gotten out of this event if you've come a couple of times?

And a lot of people have very different reasons, which is really cool because Then you don't feel like this enormous pressure for the ROI or I need to do 17 deals and I need to get 80 business cards. And that's just [00:16:00] not the way it works there. If that's for you, that's, that's totally fine. It's just not the model that works for us.

But I've had so many people reach out to me and be like, I got a new job from ILC. I started talking to this person and now all of a sudden I work for them. And, you know, now all my products are in this hotel because I just walked up and I said, I loved your conversation. I've been following, you know, your hotel story for years.

And then all of a sudden they get a phone call and they're like, Hey, we met at this thing. Let's do business. And it just is that way where I think. Taking away the obvious of trying to sell to somebody makes it that much easier to actually accomplish what your business goals

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Do you know, I'm so glad you share that because what it made me think of again, I want to tell a little story and I'm going to, I freaking forget her name now. She lives in Nashville, I think Nashville and she works in insurance. She

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Elise Kirby.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Elise Kirby. Okay. So I'm talking to Elise Kirby and she's telling me what she does and she helps hotels. Like if they all ever all [00:17:00] hotels have insurance and I don't think she's necessarily selling insurance She may sell insurance but when there's a claim you go to her and her company and

then they'll file the claim and like argue in on your behalf so that you get the best possible outcome from the claim and So she was telling me I was like, oh wow, that's interesting And I don't remember if I had just been talking to her to, um, Daniel Delomo, the CEO of Sage Hotels. Or I think somehow he was saying something about insurance. So then I was like, Oh my God. And he was sitting like on a call over there in Asheville. And I, and I walked her up and I said, Hey, Daniel, when you're done, talk to her, because I think it ties into what you were telling me about. The reason why I'm sharing that is what I find is that at these meetings, if you really lead with your heart first, other people will make those introductions for you. It's like you go here and they're going to go out of their way to connect you, to help you on your journey.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:00] It just feels very genuine in a lot of ways. And it's not like, what can I get out of it, which I feel like is maybe the way that a lot of the world is working at this point, or how a lot of people feel like they have to be where it's like, if I'm not getting something out of this, that's just like never the way I was or the way my parents told me to be.

And so, you know, It's kind of shocking to me when I see people that are very transactional in like any way, shape or form. I understand, obviously, like business needs to get done, money needs to be made. It's the same thing for us. But yeah, it is. It's amazing to see once you like, just let it kind of fall off to the wayside, it gets done that way.

But yeah, we had, I mean, Elise reached out to me after Asheville and was like, Oh my gosh, I have some, you know, boots on the ground there. Is anyone who's there need help with their insurance claims after the crazy hurricane that hit them? And so it's just like things like that, where it. It is really cool to see that [00:19:00] the connectivity continues on and it doesn't feel like, you know, hotels are the client and everybody else is the vendor.

And some of the vendors have told me. Um, quote, vendors. I forgot that people can't see me.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: No,

they can, if they go

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: oh,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: way,

If you're listening and you want to see Megan, her great hair and the awesome puzzles behind her, go to the YouTube channel and like, and subscribe. I

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: and subscribe, Dan Ryan.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: leave a comment. It really helps. We've, we we've been growing and growing, but anyway, not to detract from your story, but like, and subscribe,

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: I have no idea where I was going with this. What

was I saying?

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Asheville, meeting people.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: the vendors, the, the vendors. Yeah. So the vendors of the, you know, our community have created really cool relationships with each other so that it's like, Hey, you know, I might be an operating system, but like the hotel that I'm currently working with, they're not interested, but they're looking for new, you know, procurement for their bedding.

I know you. And then, so it works like that as well. It's not just this like. [00:20:00] two sided transactional kind of, you know, dynamic of who attends our events. It is a hodgepodge of, of humans, which is really fun. Cause I think just makes the conversations more interesting. You're not like hearing the same concepts over and over again.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: No, I think it comes back to, it's 1 plus 1 equals 3. And then you find out if someone likes Spider Man.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: I

think you've cracked the code. I am, everyone's going to start doing what I do now. Thanks for sharing my secret.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: yeah. Um, I'll also say, again, this is just my experience. But, um, I just remember the first ILC I went to. It was such a breath of fresh air. It was at the William Vale.

um, I've, I've said this a bunch of times, I'm embarrassed to say that it used to be, I used to live on 20th street. It used to be at the Highline Hotel, which was like two blocks from where I actually lived for

years, but I was always traveling and I couldn't get there.

And it was like two blocks away. Then I moved to Brooklyn and I went to one and I was like, this is amazing because it was art and [00:21:00] fashion and music and all those things. Like you said, Meg, that like touch hospitality or influence. Um, yeah. It wasn't, it was the antithesis of transactional. And I really got away feeling like just more, I don't know, more informed.

And then the other cool thing from, again, this is my experience. I was so, I was walking on such a cloud after it. I tracked down Andrew and I was like, this is so fucking awesome. I can't believe I've never been to one of these before. I was like, how can I, what can I do to help? I have an idea for a panel.

He's like, yeah, sure. Go for it. Um,

and then I managed to get on the board. At one point, and then I was like recruiting people, but not like recruiting just to have them go. It's like, I think you'd really enjoy this. And then I got to do actually my first interview ever. A couple of years later, they were interviewing people.

And one of my buddies who started coming, uh, Marquis Stilwell, [00:22:00] he's a dad friend and buddy, but You know, he's a Dad friend. Yeah. well also a real friend, but like, uh, I got to sit down and interview him with like fancy cameras and like laugh mics and all. And that was the first time I ever did that.

And I was

like, Oh, I really enjoy this. And now like almost 200 episodes later, ILC just had like a real,

impact in my journey. So again, what I'd say is even if you come and then you find that person who likes Spider Man or whatever, um, if you have great ideas, go to Meg, talk to everyone on the team, talk to Andrew. And I bet you, if it's not too crazy, they'd probably say like, Oh, that's cool. Let's, can you run with that? And And it's, uh, it's exciting. I maybe it's, it gets a little harder as you grow and you also have like a theme and brand, but like, tell us about that. Like, give us some stories about people who've been there and we're like, Hey, I have a backpack.

I'll carry it and do this thing.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah, it's I actually have a analogy that I use [00:23:00] because so many people are like, how do you come up with this content or if they're interested in getting involved? And I kind of call it like, it's the chicken or the egg is how I describe it. Because sometimes we're sitting around our office and we're like, This would be a really great idea to speak on and have a topic.

And then we're like, okay, well, we got to narrow it down and we need to find some people who would be interesting to speak on. And then other times it's like, this person's a really cool individual. How are, how would we highlight what they're doing? Are there other people doing it? And then we start crafting a panel around that.

Or is this somebody who should speak by themselves? Um, is this like a Ted talk, indie talk, what we call it? Um, or it's like, people will come to us and they're like, Hey, We have these three other organizations that we work with and we do this thing together and we think it'd be really cool to talk about.

our projects or like how we, how we work. Um, and so like for our next event coming up Nashville, um, next week we have, uh, design as a revenue driver and [00:24:00] we were approached by, um, Morris Ajmi Architects and they were like, we do so much work with MethodCo about this. Uh, we would love to have one of our architects and someone from MethodCo and we would love to talk about like real life experience, these cases, these case studies of how we, how we do this.

And I was like, cool. And then we have, um, Sine, who is here, local Philly girl as well. She's going to speak from the interior design perspective. So it just kind of all comes together in that way, which is really fun. And sometimes it's very intentionally curated and sometimes it just happens. And I think one of the things I've learned from this job in particular is like, You can control as much as you can control, but sometimes it's better to just like let shit fly.

And then you just see how like ideas form and you can't structure everything. Um, and we started doing that with some of our panels at the end of the day in Asheville. When you were there, we did the Wheel of Hospitality, which like had nothing to do with a [00:25:00] specific topic, but it was just really cool to have people who are pretty well known in hospitality Daniel Delomo, Alexis Landman and Jen Parks, you know, sit up there and get asked questions like, what's the best vacation you ever taken?

And you just hear this like really personal anecdote or like, what's a hidden talent or what's your favorite food? And then all of a sudden there's tequila shots being taken on stage. And it's just meant to like humanize some of these people and make them approachable or, you know, I don't know. I want to do business with them.

Wow. I didn't know this thing. And then it just gives you this impetus for like, yeah. A conversation piece. And so it is what you said, like intentionally chaotic. It's, I call it organized chaos. I feel like that's what my mom used to call like our entire, um, existence was just like organized chaos. It's fine.

We're all here. We've made it. Um, so I use that phrase a lot where it's like, it is chaos, but it's, it's organized and it's intentionally that way. Cause what's, what, what is fun? You know, having everything scheduled out for you all day, not knowing what's going to [00:26:00] happen. And it. You know, you gotta have a little adventure.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: And I think that that's really where the people that come, whether it's from design or technology or ownership or operations or insurance or whatever, whatever,

whatever, the tribe that shows up at these events are really, I don't know, it's much more in tune with the why we all do What we're doing, not the, not the what.

And it's like, you can go there and just, and, um, walk away and, and be inspired. And it's actually interesting because since I've been going, um, I don't remember when the first one was, but the first one I went to, but the independent space has really

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Mm

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: grown so much and it's taken notice and notice has been taken by the big brands and they're on the

acquisition path and trying to do that.

But. I think that there's something about independent hotels that no matter how much money and capital is flowing into that, because they [00:27:00] see that this is where the revenue and the profit is really growing the most in our industry, there's always the opportunity to stay small and stay independent. What are you hearing about that from, from the seat that you sit in?

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah, I mean, I have like, a very, very bird's eye view of everything because I'm kind of just listening to this like overarching thought process and you know, news tidbits and I kind of hear from everybody and so it feels very curated, I guess, in like what content I'm consuming. Everyone's content is curated these days, but I think that, you know, there is Concern over how much the independent space is getting gobbled up and, um, what is like going to be left for people to enjoy if it just keeps getting acquired or, you know, uh, rebranded or now everything's a lifestyle, Brandon.

I don't know. I, I, I just think back to what Andrew had said at our last Congress, where he, he feels like [00:28:00] it just creates an opportunity for another small business. It's like another sprout. If that, you know, whatever brand it is gets snagged up, if it's like under canvas or graduate or whatever, now it is under a larger umbrella of Hilton.

That space that existed is now. Open. It's a little, you know, it's been harvested. And so now that space is open for another small business to fulfill it and grow. And so I think it's. concerning to some people, but I think, you know, maybe some people want to be expanding or franchising or being like that can be their goal.

Um, but it just goes to show that there is something very, cool and hard to imitate in this space that there's no way of just creating it. You have to buy it.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Yeah,

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: So I think that's something that's always going to exist in the independent space. You can't, clearly these people would rather just buy it. And, um, then they can't figure out how to recreate it.

So there is always [00:29:00] that opportunity to continue to create, which is very cool.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: yeah, I think that in like using that river metaphor, you know, the river is going down and then these small businesses and these at the most local, local, local connection point. Is that Eddie that swirls, that's the vacuum that the independent hoteliers will always, and not just hoteliers, independent restaurants, independent, you know, it's like a laboratory.

And again, that's why it's a unique tribe of these, I don't know, creators that are always drawn to [00:30:00] ILC.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: yeah. And I think that there's things to learn from both sides, right? Like scalability or like brand consistency and all these things. When you have a large chain, like if a smaller independent organization is trying to expand, you know, learning, how do you do that across like the whole country and how does that work?

And so that's something we can learn from. And so I think that there's space in the sandbox. I'm just in my childhood mode today. Space in the sandbox for everybody to play. You know, it doesn't have to be super competitive, but I understand the concerns. You know, it's, it's always like a worrisome thing to feel like, okay, is this going to be, is there going to be any independent spaces left?

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: I think the answer to that is fundamentally, of course there will be.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: I think so too.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: the money may go to where they see the growth, and they may scale it, but then that independent, I don't know, interpersonal, very unique thing, when it rubs up against scale, it doesn't do very well, [00:31:00] it

gets diluted, but that's not to say that there's not a place for it, I think, I think everyone can, when I was um, I don't know, I was in some course and someone, um, Said, Oh, read this book on building a franchise.

So in one of my businesses, I was like, well, I don't want to build the franchise, but

it sounds

cool. And then what I realized is, okay, franchises are not for everyone, but if you follow all the things in that franchise book, as far as building culture and people and processes and systems and that are replicable with grid graphics so that anyone can follow and that you could get all these other people on board to become raving fans. That's great. That's can serve everyone, whether you do a franchise business or not. And I think, um, we can all learn from these much bigger behemoths. because then if you look at like, all the technology people that have come into ILC, that it's just geared towards that fragmented It's almost like they've come up with all these different [00:32:00] Products that help these independents all over the place stay lean and mean and like be able to plug in whatever new technology or new guest desire wants.

And like, it's a marketplace for

all of that, where you don't have to be crammed into like this big, I I'm, I'm out over my skis now because I don't know much about the hospitality operations technology, but

it's like, it's like, it's a breeding ground for all these cool, new, innovative ideas.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Well, yeah, that means you should just come to Cultivate, which is April 22nd and 23rd, how do you like that pug?

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: That's great. In New York.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: In New York at the Park Lane with HTV, Highgate Tech Ventures and Highgate Hotels.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: what's cool is the tech thing is not my jam at all. And I went to one of those in New York and I was like, okay, this is really cool. I appreciate it. But you know what? There's a lot more people in here that are way more into it than I am. And I, I love it. I think by the time everyone's listening to this, Your Nashville event would have just happened.

But let this be. Like a little [00:33:00] insect bite that you want to scratch. Because again, they have the one in New York. What's the one after New York?

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah, we're going to be in Chicago for another confab. So, um, the confabs are meant to really highlight a local, um, community, the local F& B, the speakers, the topics that are really important to that space or unique hospitality, um, You can find there and we call them B cities, you know, um, Philly's B city.

It's an A city this week. not going to talk about,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: that, although they are the second city,

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: I don't know, but yeah, you know, not, not in New York, not in LA, not a San Francisco, not Miami. So it's meant to be like. Okay. What we were in Asheville, like, I don't think many people are going through Asheville just, you know, for business, unless it's like really tailored to that.

So we want to, we want to highlight some of these really cool hospitality spots. Um, and we try to bring in speakers and businesses and hotels and organizations and art that are from there. So people can really get inspired by that and take it back to wherever [00:34:00] they are from. And then Cultivate is our innovation, um, focused.

So it's a lot of tech. It's a lot of. Um, investment, new ideas, AI, um, just things that are different in the space, uh, overall, what, what marketing opportunities are changing with, you know, technology and, and humans versus bots

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: When, when is the confab

in Chicago? Do you have it on the top of your head?

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: So it's going to be sometime in July. I will hopefully have an idea of that, um, by the end of this month, but it's, uh, February is the longest, shortest month ever.

Um, but we are going to be in, um, Miami for Congress this year, and that is going to be October 21st to the 23rd. I did jump all over that one. already to give myself some extra time to play, to play with, uh, what we're doing. So

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: I hope I can make it to Chicago. I go to Chicago every four or six weeks and every time I go there, I feel like a celebrity because there's, there's the Dan Ryan expressway is there.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: my [00:35:00] gosh.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Well, most people, they say, Oh, wow. Are you from here? And then, uh, and then, uh, Then they start complaining about the traffic.

So one of the things is just on, uh, when we did a Congress in Miami before, you just go, we went to this awesome art museum or you walk through Wynwood and you get artists speaking to you. And, and then invariably you're talking to that person, figuring out if they like Spider Man or not. And, uh, I don't know. It's just, It's just not the yoush.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: It's not the use. Yeah. And like, again, it's, it's, it's funny that you've pinpointed that it is like organized chaos, because some of it is just like, I'm at the mercy of what's going to happen. Like I am, I, I plan as much as I can and I really, I'm super, super crazed and detail oriented. I know I come off probably very laid back, but that's because everyone sees me after I'm done with all of it.

Um, but in the office and everything, it's just [00:36:00] like the amount of detail and focus and thinking about timeframes and, you know, planning for human, um, experience, how long is it going to take us to walk from point A to point B? Is it going to be raining? How hot is it going to be? Is this panel going to go over by five minutes?

How far is the green room from the stage? So just trying to plan for things that you would probably never stop to think about how long to plan or, okay, we're going to do a coffee break. How long is it going to take me to get everybody to stop talking, to go back inside and start the programming again?

And so trying to plan humans is a really, it's a fun challenge. I think that it's. Um, it keeps me on my toes,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Cat hurting comes to mind.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: cat herding, everybody get it. I mean, yeah, it's, I haven't, I have figured it out to as much of the science as they can, but it's still, um, you know, you never know what's going to happen. Like in Asheville, it just happened to be God awful hot.

And it was [00:37:00] like, you know, me being from a city, I'm like, Oh, 15, 20 minute walk is, is very normal for me.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: But you know what? Actually, what I would say is, the hot, the heat actually made that all the more special, because we, we walked, we were sweating our asses off, walking down this hot valley, which was totally, was totally submerged in the hurricane, by the way, and like,

wiped out, everything wiped out

there.

But we went to this awesome brewery, and that beer

Was freaking amazing because it was like the elixir of life and cold and, And

it wouldn't have tasted as great as it, or maybe it would have, but it was just

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: yeah,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: journey we went on made it taste all the more better.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: and it's just funny too. Cause like, you know, I had met the GM, um, and I think he's now also part owner and I can't think of his name. I'll come up with it. Um, and he was like, we chatted on the phone briefly and I was like, Hey, can you, you know, give a little talk? Can we talk and see through the brewery and all that stuff?

Yeah. Yeah. And then he, when we got there, he was like, yeah, we can do that. That's great. We'll have [00:38:00] a couple of beers. I was like, cool. When we got there, he like stood up on the bar and started like talking to people. And it was like just a really dynamic and I could, Lucius, thank you. And I was like, I can't, he was so awesome.

And he was talking about, you know, like the funny things about the bar. Cause like some of the waitstaff had thrown pens and things into the, like molding up at the top and, you know, stuff like that. I, I can't plan that, but like you just kind of find these unique hospitality spots and you kind of just let people run with it.

And that's what's really fun is just like the experience. And we had a similar thing happen in Denver. We had done a walk and we had checked out a couple of things and Paul Tamburillo, um, And I can't remember his company's name, but he has a bunch of restaurants and, um, he does a lot of adaptive reuse.

He takes, he's has Ophelia's, which used to be, um, uh, I think a brothel at some point and like, turned it into a really cool, like cabaret and a, a, [00:39:00] Uh, place for bands and you're up on the balconies and then he had taken a morgue and turned it into a restaurant, like just really cool concepts. And so there's a bunch of restaurants there.

It's like L O V E is the name of all of them, um, together. And he has this cool spot called Little Man Ice Cream, and I think it used to be a Farm storage for feed, um, because it's like a big tall building, uh, like an industrial looking building thing. It turned into a little ice cream shop.

And we got,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: where he walked up the hill? We walked

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: yeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta walk all the way up.

So we get to the ice cream place and they were expecting us, we had told them. And Paul had just, like, told the kid who was working there, like, don't charge anybody. And so they just let like 50 of us get ice cream, whatever we wanted for free. And it was just really sweet hospitality moment where it's like, I didn't, I just asked him if it was cool for us to come.

And I wanted to let this poor kid who was working here now, he's going to have 50 adults show up like very tired and looking for ice cream. And he just, you know, ended up [00:40:00] covering the whole bill, which was so nice. And so things like that, you can't plan, but you just kind of find these really true hospitality folk that like really make the experience and I feel lucky for being able to do that, but it's like I'm not doing anything.

I'm just kind of hoping for the best.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: so let's talk about that with the, okay, so it's organized chaos, right? So let's focus on the

organized part. So

the national event is in

one week. Okay. Um, before we started recording, I was like, can you turn your phone to do not disturb or airplane mode and your computer too? And you're like, of course.

And then, but you're, but you're like, but we're one week out and I don't know what's going to be sitting there when I, when I turn it all back on. So for people who just don't know the efforts that you guys put into to organizing everything, like we're going to be on this call for about an hour. You're a week out.

Like, what are some of the things that you think will be waiting for you as you turn your email and your phone [00:41:00] back on?

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: yeah, I mean, we're, we're one of the things that I had planned.

Um, a, a space wasn't reserved, not to my. Not doing. Um, so

I got to figure out,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: fault.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: um, sure. Well, we'll blame Andrew. No, it was, uh, yeah, just, you know, shit happens. Um, so I got to figure out that. So that's always fun. Not knowing where we're going to have something, you know, um, we have. Something happened like that right before Palm Springs.

Palm Springs, I was supposed to take everybody up the tram and have dinner on the mountain. Palm Springs had like rain for the first time in decades that flooded everything. And so when does it rain in the desert? Only when I have planning things. So, yeah, um, for this one, probably a lot of, a lot of questions.

People have tons of questions, um, which is great, but

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: So actually on a lot of questions thing for not just this event coming up, but if you were to come up with your top two FAQs that you've got, like, what are they?

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: [00:42:00] where am I supposed to be? A lot of people ask me that. Um, I didn't get this. When is this, uh, is, is another one or I guess, uh, what is the difference between the two passes? Is usually a pretty, pretty popular one. Maybe we should do bingo card. Maybe I'll do, I'll gamify it

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Yes.

See. That's what ILC is. I bet you there's gonna be a bingo event. I actually just read that for older people, which I'm approaching, um,

those who play bingo

live five

or ten years longer because of the social community. So,

I think that elixir idea and the bingo thing, you're gonna basically

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: But yeah,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: lives.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: I think I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to maybe make a bingo card, make a game out of it so I don't feel so crazed. Um, uh, yeah, just, it's always like the last minute details of stuff, which. I totally appreciate it. Everybody is so busy. Everyone gets a thousand emails. [00:43:00] Um, I don't know. I just, I look in your inbox.

I've, I've sent it to you. That's how I feel about a lot of things. It's on the website. I promise I put it there. I asked, I asked Julia to put it there. yeah,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: section in the website?

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: there's not, I mean, I guess we should see if we can. I mean, each of the events is very different and so it would be kind of challenging to streamline that.

Um, just because like the information is very different, but yeah, I mean, I think we're, we're still a small organization. I think people, which is a great compliment that people think we're much larger, maybe much, um, more streamlined than we actually are. I mean, there's four of us, it's the most employees that have ILC.

Um, it was always like two, two and an intern, um, and now we're four. And so. It's still not a lot to do, tons of, you know, it's four events over the course of the year, [00:44:00] which also includes like going out and scoping out and research and, um, all of the things from speaker coordination, F& B, hotels, figuring out, you know, experiences, booking things for people to do.

And so it is a very, Powerful, but, but small organization. So when we're very like human driven, like we're, it's, I used to joke, I'm like, we're four, we're four kids in a spreadsheet is like what we got going on here, four kids in a spreadsheet is like pretty much how ILC runs. Um, and we do great things, but you know, it's, we're not this like high tech, big machine operation that can

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: No, you need

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: out,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Richard from Muse to like build you an ERP just for you.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: I don't even know what an ERP is.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Exactly. It's

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Exactly. It's more than a spreadsheet, but yeah. So I think we're still very grassroots and analog and a lot of things that we do, which is fun. Um, but yeah, I mean, patience, patience for us with our spreadsheet is, is always great.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Um, I know you shared the story [00:45:00] of going up to the top of Palm Springs and the

flood, but in your tenure What's another? Just another situation that captures the spirit of ILC when like It just all went sideways, but it turned out great.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Oh my gosh. I feel like I will talk about Asheville a lot. Asheville was such a special place to go to. I'm glad that they're recovering. Um, but Asheville was, you One of the most I've ever felt a community, um, embrace us as like, okay, an event's coming here. We had, um, Dick Isley from Visit Asheville. She, um, was so kind to like assist with a lot of things and meet me.

And when I did a tour, uh, one of her team members came and I had met, uh, so it was Rob Blood had actually helped me with a lot of the planning and where we should go and what neighborhood. And so right off the bat, we had Lark Hotels, like we had really just met now he's on our board, but we had [00:46:00] really just met, like he had spoken at one of our events and I said, I was going to do this, this, and this, and he called me and he was like, no, no, no, no.

You want to do this and that and this, and I'll introduce you to this person. And it was just really cool to have all of a sudden, like someone who has nothing to do with what I do, take a minute out of their day to be like, we need to figure out how this is going to be a better experience here in Asheville for you.

And then I'd met, um, Amy from Hatteras Sky. I'm blanking on her last name. had,

we had, thank you, Amy Michaelson Kelly. She had been introduced to me because we were at Lark. and.

Yeah, both of them. And so we were at, um, the Radical and so I got introduced to her and then we started talking about the event and then she introduced me to Shelton at Wrongway.

And then I got introduced from Shelton to the winery people. And like, it just kind of became this, yeah, a plea, it just became this like. trans, like, continental, like, communication ring. And it was so cool. It was like this game of telephone. And the whole [00:47:00] event was, like, essentially planned by the people of Asheville.

And I think that's why that was such a fun one, was that, like, so many people had Thought about what they wanted to show us when we were there from Asheville. And then we had our closing cocktails on the rooftop the taqueria, they were so great at Asheville and like, it's a husband and wife team that runs great Eagle and the taqueria there. And they were just amazing. and you know, the woman who owns the Taqueria, she was running around and doing a bunch of stuff and what could I do? And so just to see like that level of people getting really involved was so special because again, I'm like, you own this place.

Like I can imagine you have many more things to do besides be here with this event. So it just was really cool. But so we went to the Radical for the closing cocktails on the rooftop and everyone's like, it's going to storm. And I'm looking at the weather and I'm like, no, it's, it's, going around us. It's in the mountains because it worked for me the day before it was supposed to start.

I'm like looking at the Doppler radar like I [00:48:00] am the weatherman and I'm like, it'll be fine. And Rob's like, just in case we have the lobby open for you. I was like, it's going to be great. And then the heavens opened up and it torrential downpour. And it was like, people are like, just like inching closer to the bar.

And that was it. Nobody gave a shit.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: yeah,

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: was like, Whatever. I have

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: I'm gonna, it was literally, like, the temperature dropped and 10 degrees. I thought there was going to be a tornado

and it was, it was

awesome.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: like, woo.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: But I also love how you said, it's like, so where we were talking about, Earlier with ILC, it's this one plus one equals three.

Like everyone benefits. Right. And you said it's like a really game of telephone or transcontinental telephone. And I wrote

game of telephone, not game of thrones. Like there's so many of these other ones that are more like it's transactional. It's like, it's, it's a game of thrones. And this is a totally, everything is a create everything and everyone is totally accretive to everyone else. And just to use the raw blood story. I've known [00:49:00] of Rob for a long time, but I never really connected with him. I think I tried and reached out a couple of times. Rob, this is directed to you. Uh, but just no

response, no response. We were sitting there, in the great, great Eagle talking

to each other. We were started talking, not about Spider Man, unfortunately, but about, um, Kids and school. And, and, uh, we just had like this really cool. Moment where we just got to know each other. Now. I don't know. We're talking more and he's going to be a guest on the podcast soon. And,

um, I was, I'm like, brainstorming some different ideas with him. And, and again, it's like, I said this a lot.

I got to like, change it, but it's like. I can't believe I actually didn't say this earlier. You have an idea, someone else has an idea, you share them with each other. They have sex, you, They

make baby ideas.

and then those

baby ideas can go and have more, more babies, but I think that that's really, um, that's really what it's all about in,

in, and Asheville.

I think also, [00:50:00] I'm so glad you shared all those stories. Cause I think

about the devastation that's gone through,

but even looking at before it's the ultimate, like independent place,

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah. And I don't think that like they are ready for it. I mean, their airport was so tiny and also like it was almost comical because it's like the airport's so small. It's one terminal. And we were there when that Microsoft, like, software shit started. The bed and we were all like stuck outside of the air and then there was like that storm so everyone's flights were canceled the day before and it was like almost comical because we kept seeing people like at the airport and I'm always just like after the event and it's like it's like seeing your teacher out of school you know what I mean like you start you see People from the event out of place and I'm like, uh, I look like a gremlin.

I am traveling I don't need to see anybody right now. It was like we just kept seeing each other We would like leave the airport come back to the airport stand on line for hours It was like it was kind of comical, but it was just you know, it is That's, that's national. That's, [00:51:00] that's, uh, travel and hospitality is funny.

for what this year has. It's, it's gonna be a good one.

Um,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: now actually with your new title, congratulations, Grand Puba,

and you know, you mentioned a couple of the events coming out, but

not so much the event stuff,

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: forward into the future, what's exciting you most?

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: I think I'm really excited for Miami. I had never been there before. Um, and when I went. I was like very inspired. I went to a ton. I did a crazy, um, 12 hour trip by myself. Um, I was in Tampa at the time, so I like took a flight out to Miami early in the morning and I just spent like 12 hours and I looked at seven properties in seven hours and yeah, was a trip. I have, um, I haven't signed, I haven't signed the contract yet, so I get very, um, superstitious, but you could plug it. When, but it's definitely in Miami. Um, actually I have the contract so I can talk about it. It's going to be at the Mayfair [00:52:00] House and, uh, Hotel and Garden. Mayfair House Hotel and Garden. And it's really beautiful.

Um, Preferred Hotel, who we love and, um, it's

really, on South beach?

it's not actually, it's in Coconut Grove. So

it's like just outside, but it's like, there's all, I mean, if you can tell, I love, I love plants. I love the natural world. And so they do a really cool job of like creating this indoor outdoor space inside their hotel.

And so it just is kind of fun. And, and it's one thing we think about a lot when we're doing where we're choosing for the venues is something I think about actually more often than people probably think is how are you going to feel sitting there? Sitting here for 10 hours. So you're going to be in this space for two days.

What does that look like? What does that feel like? Because I don't know. I, everyone in hospitality has like a goldfish. You know, attention span and, and you can't sit still for that long. So you got to keep it interesting or comfortable. And I'm excited for Nashville because we're in this music venue and it's all the [00:53:00] furniture is this like cool loungy overstuffed leather chairs and couches and banquettes and, and it's just different and it's nice to spend your time there instead of sitting like.

this next to people for 10 hours, you know, listening to things and you're just like shoulder to shoulder. It feels very Catholic school and you're sitting in church. You're just like, uh, you just kind of can't focus anymore. And so I think the venue makes the experience as well. And that's something that I think about a lot.

We think about a lot when we're picking.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Well, I'll share one other thing to think about the normal conference where there's so many chairs in a ballroom or whatever. Like for instance, you guys

you guys intentionally put in less chairs than there are attendees because you know, people are going to be going out having coffee, but also when they come back. You're sitting next to someone you probably weren't sitting next to. And you say, Hey, what's your biggest need? That's one of the things I've really learned from there is just asking people, what's your biggest need. And then they say it, and then I got my reticulating [00:54:00] radar on and I'm like, okay, well how can I connect the dots here?

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah. It's one of those cool things. Like I, it made me crazy when I first started working here and Andrew's like, we got 200 people put in 150 chairs and my, you know, banquet brain was like, absolutely not a chair for every person. And. He's very right on that, um, that you creating, uh, a space for people to have to sit next to each other and chat and kind of forcing you to get into someone's personal bubble a little bit more, you know, obviously it's not for everybody, but if there is like only a certain number of tables at a, or chairs at a table.

And so on my tables, people will like, just, you know, choose to leave a seat in between. And it's like, well, you're here to talk to people, aren't you? Like, why is there this weird space? Or if there's not enough space and people are like sitting over on the grass together. And so things like that is, is kind of an intentional, get you out of your comfort zone kind of, kind of deal.

So yeah, there's, there's a lot of things that we think about, [00:55:00] um, beforehand, you know, the, the team we're all located in Philly together. And so there's a lot of. Brainstorming a lot of thought that goes into how this is going to look and how it's going to feel.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: And how you can play marionette with our souls

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: The Big Puppet master Yeah.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: with We are the mar. Yeah, that's right. You're, we are the marionettes, you're the puppet masters.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it wouldn't be possible without like all of the different efforts too. And it's fun. Like again, our, our office is like this little mini cosmos of what ILC is. Cause it's like, you have Julia, who's our creative person. Yeah. And she's got this like art school background and she's graphic designer, but she also has just like a different thought process for things.

And so. Susanna just graduated. She has a marketing degree, um, just graduated a year ago. And, um, she's very detoerant, but has a totally different perspective on things. And then Thomas, who just joined our team also, um, you know, recent grad, but he comes from an environmental science background and like, so he has just, everyone has a very [00:56:00] different perspective on a lot of the things.

And I think that kind of is like our little microcosmos and no idea is a bad idea. We all kind of just like. Throw things out and see what sticks. And it kind of, I think it works. Yeah,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: organized chaos and can be my Puppet Master anytime.

Master! Master! I think you need to do some ILC merch with like, repurposing that, uh, Metallica Master of Puppets. Master!

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: I think we should just do a whole puppet show. I think you should host again and just do a puppet

show. And we

could do like a little,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: I'll get the, the other one. It'll be

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: could do like, um, like a ventriloquist situation.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Bashar can sit on my lap and I can, I can make him talk. I love you, Bashar. Guest number one on Defying Hospitality.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: one.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: This has been so fantastic,

Meg. I'm

so happy to know you. I'm so like, awestruck

by your [00:57:00] ascent in our

industry and at ILC and just the role that you're playing. You're stepping up I don't know.

You're like a, you're a hero. You're a

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: I'm Spider Man.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: You're my, yeah, you are my spider woman.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah, that's

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: I'll say you can do it this way or this way. Master or Spider Man. Oh god, everyone's got to watch the YouTube for that one.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: I was gonna say people need to turn their volume down by the end of this.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: wanted to learn or connect with you or learn more about ILC, what's the best way for them to do

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Yeah, LinkedIn, um, follow us on LinkedIn. That's where a lot of updates are. There's also really cool content always, you know, keeping people up to date on what's going on in the industry. Um, so our LinkedIn definitely follow Independent Lodging Congress, um, or me, um, Meg Gutowski. I am also on the LinkedIn.

Um, and we have a really fun Instagram page. It's, uh, again, like funny little curated things that is just gives you a little sneak peek about the personality of ILC, I think is a fun way if you're interested in [00:58:00] understanding like, The brand a little bit more, the feels of it, uh, less information, more, more vibes, uh, we have Instagram as well and yeah, our website, our website's uh, up and got answers for you.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Well, congratulations to you, um, I

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Dan.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: and ILC so much. Everyone, if you haven't gone, you're thinking about it, just fucking go.

Just

do it. do it. Do it! just go. And then, uh, Yeah, I, so thank you. Thank you for being here and sharing your story and, and your experience. I appreciate it so much,

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: It's very sweet. I appreciate it. It's very, uh, it's very strange to be asked questions about what I do and what do they call it? Imposter syndrome. The imposter syndrome is real, but I appreciate the time and the questions and I always will sing some death metal with you.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Yeah. And keep, keep. Yeah. Oh, so that's the other one. You gotta make a meg makes great mixes. She gave me a good dad rock mix on

[00:59:00] Spotify,

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: you want any playlists,

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: now

you got, I think you need to do like a little, little metal one. See how it goes, that journey through to the halls of metal. Um.

But also, most importantly too, thank you to all the listeners who inspire me to get up and do this every week.

And also to attract great guests like Meg and ILC and everyone else that's out there. And Rob Blood, who's coming up soon. Um,

it all started at ILC and Amy

Michelson Kelly, the wrong way. You know what? I got to get Lucius on. That's the one that's

missing. I, I wrote down his name. That's why I had to look it up and I remember, but Asheville, Asheville Strong. If you haven't

planned a trip there,

Go.

Yeah, and thank you. Pass this along if it changed

your mind

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: you.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: our industry, ILC or anything.

meg-gutowski--she-her-_1_02-06-2025_094036: Appreciate it,

Dan.

dan-ryan_47_02-06-2025_094034: Thanks guys.

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