Defining Hospitality

DH - Mark Page
===

[00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Today's guest has worked in product design, marketing, and sales. His career has focused on flooring and carpeting for hospitality, locations and others For almost 40 years. He won the 2022 HIP award for product Designer. He's the Vice president of Design at Mohawk Industries, the largest flooring company in the world.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Mark Page. Welcome, mark.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Hi Dan. How are you?

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: I am wonderful. I want our readers to know that, you know, I furnish hotels, I supply furniture to hotels. There was a a brief moment where I [00:01:00] tried to do something on a roll.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Sure.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: carpet. And I realized, you know what? I'm much better with the three dimensional built product, not so much textiles.

And it was a really cool thing to, like, I'm a big believer in trying as many things as you can, and then sometimes if you don't try things you don't know if, if it's a good fit or not. But I really appreciated, um, my time and limited experience with you and your whole team because what I realized is textiles and carpet and flooring is a whole different world that has an infinite amount of just things I know nothing about the, the unknown unknowns.

Um, and there's such a nuance into getting each design right, that I just thought it would be really cool to have you on so that you could share your experience of being a product designer and award-winning product designer. Um, [00:02:00] starting off in textile, but now like. Mohawk is this huge flooring company, I think the biggest in the world, and just wanted to kind of talk to you about your experience.

But before we get there, what does hospitality mean to you?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Hospitality means to me several things in my professional world in my relaxed state. for me in the professional world, it's, it's a, it's a great exposure to what's happening, what's new. Um, I can take inspiration from a lot of what I see there. A lot of the properties I'll visit will be properties that we've designed product for. So, um, we get to go back to that scene of the crime, if you like, where we've created the, the product get to see what worked and what didn't work in a real sense in terms of design. Um, if I look at it purely, I'm there on vacation. I'm there to unwind. I'm there to get some of the flavor of the local community, what's happening there.

Um, and really sort of create a, a, a, a [00:03:00] stimulus for me to relax, unwind, and to rest. Um, there, there, there's probably a third leg is in the business world where I'm just traveling to be in and out of a meeting with client. Um, I'm just looking at a comfortable bed that's close, uh, that can get me in and out and back on a plane again. So it's, it's, it's several things for me

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: And Okay. I I, I appreciate that. And if you were to say, if you were to take, 'cause I, I guess also what I'm intrigued by with Mohawk in particular in your experience is how that idea of hospitality in the built environment and, and designing for that and supplying for that industry, hotels, restaurants, bars, um, movie theaters, I don't know where, wherever, I mean, flooring is everywhere, but

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: you could segment out the hospitality, is there a difference?

To that industry from your perspective versus, versus the other verticals that you might be in from healthcare [00:04:00] to uh, office, to industrial to unit, anywhere else that has flora, that's not hospitality. So is it different? How is it different and does that hospitality industry influence the other segments that are not hospitality?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: if I, if I go back to my early career, I spent, um, purely in the hospitality industry for most of my career, um, albeit the last 12, 13 years that I've been at Mohawk. Um, and, and, and that was a, that I've always felt was a fairly unique environment. Um, think as we'd gone on, Covid probably accentuated this, the idea that we want to bring in more of an experience. more of a hotel type feel into all aspects of interior built environments. so, so at Mohawk, I'm, I'm more than just responsible for hospitality. It, it is, as you said, Dan, it's, it's healthcare, it's government, [00:05:00] it's workplace, it's aviation, it's, it's everything other than residential is where I'm designing product for.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Uh, and yet in almost, all, not every one of those ones, uh, but almost all of those, there is a component of hospitality that gets bought into the built environment. Um, it's the, the idea of something a little bit more of a creative statement. As you enter that building, it's a for, uh, employees within that space to go and re relax, network, rewind, settle in a community with others where that hospitality environment access that, that sort of tie together.

I.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: bring people into that space. Um, so, so I would say yes. I, I would, I would hesitate it on schools for a moment there, because I don't know that influences schools, but I, I, you probably could say, yeah, there's, there's an aspect there that even in a school environment, um, hospitality type environments can be created.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: for the listeners [00:06:00] that don't know in the United States, Mo and you can correct me if I'm wrong, again, I'm,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: I know just a little, uh, just enough to be slightly dangerous here, but most of the flooring in the United States is done in Northern Georgia and you're in Dalton. Is that a correct statement or not?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Okay.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yep.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Um, in the 7 0 6 area code, I got that one right here. Yep.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yep.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: So, um, I think there was this other element of hospitality. 'cause when, when I went down and got to experience the corporate offices and then a couple of the different mills from, I don't know, like whatever the Durkin, what is that? CYP to other tufted.

Like, I don't, I'm getting out over my skis here, but I think that it's like this huge. Industrial, I don't know, outpost that makes flooring. But then from a hospitality's perspective, just making me feel welcome, educating me as far as like how all of this goes. It must have been more 10 years ago or [00:07:00] more.

So I've, I've forgotten more, um, than I've ever known. But it's, uh, I don't know, just being able to go and make sense of that machinery and how the things are made and how you, you schedule production and how does that level of hospitality, as far as making others feel welcome into this place, apply to you and as you build your teams and how you interact with other teams, not just design, but also production within the Mohawk family.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: It's challenging at times. so I mean, if I, if I go back to the, when the earth was flat. The UK where I came from, my small hometown, Kidderminster had a, a, an axminster woven industry, very labor intensive, um, as cost of manufacturing within the UK go up. a lot of that industry's gone away there.

There isn't really a carpet manufacturing base in my hometown anymore. Um, but if I look at the US in, in Dalton, tufted technology, which is [00:08:00] sort of, um, sort of came on, quite dramatically here. it requires much less labor. It's a lot less labor intensive. Um, manufacturing may argue with me around here, that's the case.

But it, it is harder to make those things overseas to where you can reduce your cost that much, that importing that product back into this country makes any sense. so the industry here tends to flourish,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: and just

so I'm clear, and that's because. To do the tufting or, or the technologies that de developed to do the tufting in Dalton, it's very capital intensive to build these machines, but once these machines are built, obviously there's still people involved in the process, but you wind up not competing with a lot of the high cost or low cost of labor.

Places where they might not invest in the cap or invest the capital in all of that machinery because they have lower cost of labor that can do handcuffed it, et cetera, et cetera.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah, yeah. The, the, the, [00:09:00] the manufacturing equipment, the engineering behind what we do, a a lot of that is made locally. So, um, Chattanooga, um, a lot of the tufted technology that the industry uses in Dalton is manufactured there. so it, so it's, it's all very, it's all very compact.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: for design where I'm at, um, it's a, it's a small community here that is. Um, influenced by what it says around them. The, the, the challenge I have in product design is how do I attract talent a small Milltown community? Um, know, if I look at a designer in New York, they are, for the most part, they can be subconsciously influenced by fashion window displays. Uh, they've got bigger aspirations.

They may be a little bit more focused on trend and future activity. you don't see that in Dalton area. You know, there's not a lot of high end malls. There's not a lot of high end stores. Um, yet I've [00:10:00] gotta try and bring young talent into this area. Um, so I, I'll spend a lot of time building relationships with colleges directly with the students and try and try and get them to, to realize that there are viable opportunities in flooring design, um, and that they can get exposure to. Those parts of the world with in influence,

Hmm.

gotta live here. They, they've gotta live at the mill. They've gotta be close to where we design and produce our samples. so, so they can live in both worlds. They, they, they've gotta live here, we can put them in situations where they can be influenced. Uh, and they're building products that are cutting edge and on trend, the sorts of things that our major metropolitan partners wanna buy. So, but it, it is a challenge. It, it takes a lot of work for the business for me, um, for those that work around me to, to make sure that we're engaged with, um, the employee base that we wanna bring into this market. [00:11:00] That doesn't mean that on the manufacturing side is necessarily the same thing, but if we're looking at design trend and influence, um, I have to have a little bit more outreach to bring those people in.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Um, one of. Favorite cha. I get so much feedback on doing these podcasts and talking to really interesting people, um, such as yourself. But one of the most po like, I don't know, rewarding or impactful channels of feedback that I get back are from the younger listeners who might be in college,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: at, at a hospitality school or design school

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: freshly out of college, maybe in an internship or in something else.

But they, they were, they're exploring what hospitality is all about

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: and I find that so rewarding. 'cause they'll reach out to me on LinkedIn or email and just say, oh wow, I didn't know I could do X or Y or I didn't even know that thing existed. Um, as you're building those relationships with these learning institutions, I would assume, [00:12:00] and just talking to other designers, what's a, how do you know when you've kind of won, when you've made that connection?

Like, how do you know when I. When it's right. Do you have an example of that where it's like you might've turned on a light in someone's head that they weren't aware of?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah. It's, it's not for everybody. Um. we, we have a lot of people come and visit the design center here, the light lab. Um, and we'll do a lot of presentations. And anyway, I'll go to colleges and we'll do presentations. you look at a, a classroom of 30, 40, 50 students, uh, and they, they're either playing on the phone, um, some of 'em are paying attention or they've just got blank looks on their faces. you start to show them what we do. the extent of creativity in what we do. You do, not in everyone, but you do start to see light bulbs come on.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: People realize that this is an opportunity that, that wasn't presented to them prior to my engagement, or they didn't think of, I think a lot, a lot of interior [00:13:00] design textile students, they, they will look at fashion or fabrics. They won't necessarily think about carpet. Um, for, for as, for as much as carpet can be a fairly bold statement in some hospitality settings, it's not something you necessarily stare at and absorb. do, and my wife being interior designer, we'll, we'll hold hands when we go through a space. She's looking at everything else around the room and I'm looking at the floor. We get through the space without walking into things.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Look up, mark. Look up.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: up. Yeah. Get off the floor. So, um, yeah, yeah. Not everybody, but, but it is interesting to see that those actually switch on and that those will actually engage with you fully with plenty of questions or after the event, or that will send you a text or an email say, Hey, I'd, I'd like to be a part of an internship program or work, you know, when can I come and see this space? and, and so, so it takes a special person, a a lot of the, a lot of the older textile designers that [00:14:00] we've got here, um, including me, I, I don't know any of us expected to be in flooring. None of us really thought that's where we'd eventually be

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: That's really interesting. So general, let's do a ge generally speaking for you and, and your other colleagues there, where, where did you think you would be in the des in the world of design?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: So I'm a, I'm a fourth generation employee, um, into

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: I.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: in, in my hometown. There were very few manufacturers there. And you, and you, you, you left, you graduated and you ended up in your hometown at the biggest single employer. Um, I didn't want that. I wanted to run away from that. I think I'd be everything else, but be in flooring. Um, I ended up getting sucked in. And you enjoy the income and the income place for nightclubs and drinks and girlfriends and everything else. and then you, you just become reliant on it. And, and then you realize that the exposure you get there, you're not just sat behind a desk creating things.

You, you get to meet people. [00:15:00] You get to meet with really creative interior designers have some great ideas and some really bad ideas. Um, but they explain to you what they're looking for, what they want you to create. And, and it's that partnership between, the interior designer and us,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: that becomes very fluid. Um, o other designers I got here, I mean, I think, I think my destiny was sealed when I was born into my hometown. be honest, I, I, some, some of the old designers here, um, it, it's, it's, in some respects, it's almost that they've accepted a job for its benefits and are steady income, but they're really sculptors or they're painters or, you know, they, they, they like to express their creativeness outside of work in the medium that they, they really flourish in. but coming to work every day is, is pays the bills and the income.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Um, that, that, that's a lot of the designers here. We have 17 designers that live outside of here. In the major metro markets, you know, [00:16:00] New York, Vegas, la and that's a slightly different breed because they, they do live in the environment where our clients are, and they're, they're working in tandem, creating those things, and they're influenced by the materials around them. in a lot of those cases, those designers are people that, um, wanted to go into textiles.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: You said something that resonated with me where it was, you know, you're designing some incredible things and then some not so beautiful things. Right. One of the one, something that I've noticed through my career is, uh, in doing custom furniture, really being focused on that. Um, jokingly I say, you know, I've lost all sense of like, taste and aesthetic sometimes because I become so focused on executing someone else's vision and making sure that we are picking up what's important to them.

And yeah, we've do some incredible things. We do some, if I really step back and look at it, they're like, wow, what, what are [00:17:00] they thinking? But they're happy and I get joy out of creating whatever it is and making sure that they're happy. 'cause that when they light up is when I light up. Do you feel similar to that with all the custom and then the, and the running line things that you have as well?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah, yeah. I mean that there, i, I, I have clear taste in what I want to see. I. And, and, and it's nice when a client will go along and, and they believe in you and, and what you create is what they want. Um, there, there are plenty of times where my taste isn't quite good. Uh, and, you know, I'm, I'm designed for someone else's needs and, and yeah, their end result is actually better than I would've, I would've gone. Um, also a commercial business, you know, we, we exist to provide product, make a sale, stay in business. so, you know, we have to accept criticism of our work both internally and externally. So when we are creating products, running line [00:18:00] products, every executive around me is a, is a designer or they claim to be.

And they've, they've got influence and they've got a decision and, and we have to sell up and we have to sell down. Um, but good, bad or indifferent, um, ugly or pretty. at the end of the day, there's a sales transaction there.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: That has to be fulfilled. So we, we have to accept criticism, we have to accept that someone may not have my taste, but they're prepared to place an order and move forwards. Um, so not everything we do is pretty in a custom world.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: where we try and have a stronger influence is to make sure that when we're creating products, um, that we are trying to solve a client's problems. So if you wanna buy a particular carpet, you, you don't wanna put a white carpet into a restaurant. Yeah. So you're gonna rely on my expertise to say, oh no, you shouldn't do that. This is why. but if you want to do something similar, let's, let's design into that product certain characteristics. So maybe it's a [00:19:00] specification, it's a type of styling, maybe it's a level of color, of contrast, that can help to build a product that's gonna perform better in those spaces, whether it's pretty or ugly. Um, it is on us to make sure that we steer our clients into a product visual and category is gonna look good. It's gonna make them look good in front of their clients, and it's actually gonna support the lifecycle of that product, which is all important, right? You, you wanna make sure that the end of lifecycle, that that client goes, that Mohawk product lasted 10, 20 years. I wanna go back to Mohawk. so it's in a design sense. We have that responsibility to make sure that we guide.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Mark, when was, when was Mohawk founded?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Mohawk was founded almost 150 years ago,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Wow. Wow.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: um, which is a long time

Well,

any US manufacturer.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: yeah. And the re the reason why I ask that, I'm looking like, for those of you watching on YouTube, I [00:20:00] assume those are, uh, that's past product behind you in, or that's like your running line of,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Oh,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: of materials behind you.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: So in the past 150 years, I'm just curious 'cause the intellectual property and designs that you have, like in the, in the dust bins, like of your, I don't know, you're probably storing them somewhere if not behind the wall, the older ones.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah, yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: How often do you. Go back and dust those off and look at what's there. Like I'm, I'm imagining, um, like Raiders of the Lost Ark, when they go into that big, huge warehouse of, of, of crates, do you ever go back and look at the old designs and, and bring things back?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Uh, occasionally. Um, a a lot of the older carpets that, um, existed back then, actually before then, are very traditional. Those styles have long since gone from modern architecture. we still see them in a custom sense. We see them relevant to older [00:21:00] buildings, older architecture. I. Um, where the integrity of that structure is.

They're trying to maintain that. Look, most, most modern carpets not so much. Um, but back, back in the 18 hundreds, even 17 hundreds, patterning, styling numbers of color, there were a lot more intricate, a lot bolder. Um, you just don't see those anymore. We, we are almost now at a sense where we want a tactile product on the floor. Um, but it almost to be not the focus.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Uh, now that's not true. Every segment, some segments more so than others. but we, we are far more tactile and minimalist in a lot of our products now than we are. high contrast, heavy patterning, more traditional,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Okay.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: but it's an inspirational place to be. I, I I, a shocking story.

My, my original ma, the original manufacturer I used to work for in the uk started in 1783.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: What are they called?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: [00:22:00] Uh, Brenton's.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Oh, print. Okay. I've heard of them.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: So they, they, they started in 1783 and the archive, there was, um, art papers all hand painted. It's where I started my career. Every single little tough was hand painted with a paintbrush.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Wow.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Um, shockingly when I first joined there, um, they actually ran out of space store all those painted pieces. so we, we went through two years. We went through photographing them onto glass slates, glass slides,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Oh wow.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: a lot of them fell off shelves and got broken over the years, but that's so that they could burn the papers to create space. So a lot of those hand-painted papers that would go back to the seven, late 17 hundreds just got burnt to create space for other things.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Um, and we look at that now and we go, that's shocking. A a, any one of those hand-painted papers may have taken an artist weeks, months to create. And, and then we just had this sort of scant disregard for them at that time.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Um, today we're all about preservation and, you know, we wanna be able to show [00:23:00] those things and, and Mohawk's archive, um, we have it tucked, tucked away. Um, we do pull it out. Um, we take people to, to see it. We, we would like to have plans to really expose that put that on public display and

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: But you have to be careful 'cause you don't want people to find the arc of the covenant there because, and unleash the unlimited power that it may,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah, yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: it may help.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah, yeah, yeah. But that, but that was the reality of, of, of the modern world. You know, we, we,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: we didn't value those things as much

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: But I, I bet like to re I, I mean I bet you could create a museum of that, um, and really think about how that's all presented. 'cause that just, that that catalog and the history it's gone through, um, from just the, I guess the advent of kind of like the railroad or maybe just after that and into like the whole history of the United States as we've seen it in all the change that's happened.

I think it would be really interesting to tie that back to what we were all walking on [00:24:00] through. Through all of that, you know, um, one question I have is, you know, as for instance, living in the New York area and just seeing LaGuardia is now a beautiful airport, for instance.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Gotcha.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: but I'm seeing these, most of the larger airports and really public areas where there's a lot of traffic, a lot of foot traffic.

Um, more and more people are walking through these places and like, I don't know they're wearing out carpet or not. Uh, what's the biggest technological, I guess Im improvement or innovation that you've seen in the flooring space as it pertains to carpet, um, in your career? Because now I'm going into these places, there's more thousand, many, many more people walking through these things, but the carpet just never seems to wear out.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah, the, um, my at, at Brenton's, they were a wool manufacturer. [00:25:00] Um, in the US the carpet industry here is pretty much nylon. Um, so you've got a fiber type there that's, um, that's gonna wear a long time. in, in a lot of cases, the fiber is gonna withstand fashion. So it's, it's, it's, it's hard to create something that is gonna last that 20, 30 years. The lifecycle of a carpet, if it's maintained well, it's gotta maintain it. Um, that you're creating something that is gonna look good in 20 years. And in a lot of cases are taking carpet out, uh, because they want a new look, they wanna renovate. and that requires changing the styling and the color palette and so on. Mm-hmm. Uh, otherwise the carpet would last for a lot longer. Um, but it, but it, it, you know, it comes down to maintenance as well. You know, people that do put in the time to spot clean and, and clean, will have a carpet that looks good right to the end of its lifecycle. Um, not everyone does that, and that, that can be a challenge in a lot of built [00:26:00] environments. Innovation fiber, um, uh, dura color TriCore. So there's a triangular hollow core through the middle of the nylon, which creates some architecture, um, and

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Oh, within the filament there's like, there's a, a geometric, geometric form. Oh, wow.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Under a microphone as, as you extrude, you look through the core, you actually

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Huh.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: tri lo which is sort of architecturally,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: And is that extruded or is like how Oh, wow.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: It's Um, but it, but it, but it gives strength on an nylon. So it helps an nylon architecturally stand up.

It wants to stand up. It's hard to push it over. and then you use onic fibers that, um, in our, in our brand, we call them dura color, there's very few manufacturers that have a dura color type product anymore. but it's built to push away stains. So it's, it's actually hard for a stain to stick. If,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: you think about magnet North to north, they wanna stick together, right?

Actually north to north, they wanna repel, south to north, they [00:27:00] stick together. In a cat fiber, you actually create a north to north environment where the stain and the fiber just naturally repel each other,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Oh, like holding magnets up with the same,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: the stain just can't grab hold, and

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: to just dry and fall out.

New vacuum, um, the use of recycled plastic bottles in backing materials

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Oh, so that's actually something I wanted to ask on the sustainability side. Um, when you said it, when it's time to renovate and you take out all of that nylon, I guess it would be the nylon could be what's the, walk us through the process. I'm like, how does that get recycled and turned into new filament and or fiber?

And is that the same process that you would do for plastic bottles?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah. There, there, there are two types of fiber. Nylon would be one.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Mm-hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Um, if I'm looking at PET, which is plastic bottle material, on several parts of our business, that is a, that is a converting a plastic [00:28:00] bottle, and we've got our own proprietary technology for that. It is easier to take that and convert, sru that into a fiber. Um, and even the blue caps, blue blue caps, green caps,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Mm-hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: can be, um, extruded back into a product type as well. in, in plastic bottle worlds, we're one of the world's largest recycler of plastic bottles into flooring products.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Really?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: nylon can be a bit trickier, um, but there are capture partners around the country, um, that we connect people to on our recovery program, they'll take that material back and then we start to process that back into other products.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: And did they do that domestically?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Oh wow. Okay. That's, that's super cool because one of the things in just having been to Dalton and senior facilities. Then, you know, we have all the talk of tariffs right now.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Oh

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: You guys must be like, I think what's cool about flooring, the big flooring companies within the US is [00:29:00] they're kind of immune to tariffs, right?

Because everything, all the inputs, and you're making it there. So with all this tariff talk, what's, what are you guys thinking there at Mohawk? Just like, okay, whatever. We're here.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: domestic carpet,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Mm-hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: raw ingredients are here. You know, we make our own chips, we extrude our own nylon, um, you know, make the fiber and so on. So, you know, if, if the industry, if if, um, the hospitality industry and commercial workspaces, if that area of our business is buoyant, we are buoyant,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Mm-hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: tarriffs wouldn't make any change to our world. Uh, it is probably gonna affect people's willing to willingness to invest in new buildings, new properties, renovating. I think that's probably gonna hold cash back. But as a business, yeah. Well, we are, we are making things domestically. We're in good shape. Um, now we're a, we're a global manufacturer, so, um, there are things that we make that we export and there are things that we import. Um, [00:30:00] we, we can flex where we need to make things more domestically. We can flex fairly quickly. I. Um, so I, I think we're in a pretty unique position for us, and then our other businesses around the world are generally making product for those markets as well. So, uh, our business in Belgium, um, is making carpets and resilient products for the European markets.

So again, that they can be somewhat immune, um,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: to some of the tariff conversations. I, I, I don't know that it's Mohawk directly that gets affected other than it's all those customers that we sell product to, their decision making is stalled

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: until they can see a clearer path path ahead.

Hey, everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability, and I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor, Berman Fall Hospitality Group is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

[00:31:00] Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more info.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: So as you're speaking there, it's, it's. Getting me thinking it was, and I think one of the unique things about Mohawk, because you're in every different vertical,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: you, you are not working in residential, but Mohawk is in residential for sure. Yeah. That's not in, in your purview. So,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: that's really interesting to me because if I go to a hospitality trade show,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: say you'll be exhibiting there or your, many of your brands will be exhibiting there.

And if I, if I look at the directory or look at all the companies, most of the companies that supply custom anything into the hotel industry are probably from a $5 million a year revenue company making widgets some kind of a widget

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: maybe a hundred million dollars a year. Right? It's a difficult business that has margins that are not the best when, uh, with respect to making product.

Um, schedules are really [00:32:00] hard. It's just a hard business.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah, yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: what's interesting to me about flooring and Mohawk. Is that you are in all of those other channels making different margins in the other verticals.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: What types of challenges, like what makes hospitality difficult for you and from your perspective, contrasting it to all of the other verticals that Mohawk is in,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: 80% of probably what we do in the hospitality industry is gonna be custom. Um, cu custom carpets, you're looking at the, the di injected, the definitive, the cyps, tufted rooms. It, it is a heavy use of design resource and sampling.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: which drives up your cost of goods? Right.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: it dries up costs. So, you know, the more, the more, the more design work I do, the more design hours, the more designers, the more samples, um, the longer it takes one of our clients to say, that's it, [00:33:00] it's good to go.

Let's place a order that those are significant costs and those are costs that we carry, um, for good and for bad. Um, I, I don't know that a lot of cases, a lot of our clients understand, you know, a sample's gonna cost 200

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Mm-hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: you know, and 30 to 40, 50 bucks to ship. Um, and you know, as soon as you've ordered 30 or 40 of those samples, it's a lot of money. Um, you know, I, I have in some parts of my career had the opportunity to point that out to clients and say, look, you've just spent 50 grand on samples here for a 250 yard custom job. we're all gonna lose some money on this thing. but, but that requires a lot of labor.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Mm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: It's, it's a very complex process.

It is difficult to manage. Um, if it's a, a small volume job, there's perhaps some more money to make, you can lose that profit very quickly on sampling costs. and if you get [00:34:00] into large volume opportunities, generally a big conversation there. There's usually other competitors. we all love volume, keeps the plant going, but margins tend to be tighter and, and you,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: In hospitality.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: hospitality. Yeah.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: You, you've done, there's not a lot of margin there for slippage. If you, um, you screw something up,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: you're late on delivery. you know

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: totally.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: little margin you've made is you, you can lose very

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: But do you agree with like if you step back or when you walk into the Vegas show or the, or the BDNY show, and you look at all the companies that are there from interior to exterior, all the, no one's doing over $2 billion in sales like you are, or maybe very, maybe one other company I don't even know.

It's probably another flooring company. Right.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah. We're not, we, we globally as, as a manufacturer, we're probably something close to $11 billion now that's

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: 11

billion. Oh, wow.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: of that is residential sales.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.[00:35:00]

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Um, and that, and that's all public information. There's nothing unusual there. Um, we're, we're, we're a lot smaller than that, clearly on the hospitality side, but we are one of the biggest players in the US market by far.

And, and we'd, we'd love to grow, but you know, when you're, when you're number one, number two, um, in the hospitality flooring industry, it is, it is harder to, to get to number one or to hold that position. So it's, we we're always having to challenge ourself with new things, and, and it's a, and it's a design driven business.

Um, create a lot of collections throughout the year to provide stimulus for our clients. and my, my ideal is that our clients look to us for innovation, for new styling as being the specialists, as being the trend forecasters. Um, we want them to come to us first to say, what have you got this new?

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: And how much revenue did you say you were doing? 11 billion.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: We're about 11 billion.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: That's correct. So I was, while you were talking 'cause I was just trying to get my head around the order of magnitude. [00:36:00] I, it must have been in the month it was 2 billion

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: or, yeah. That's so insane. And,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: and it,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: a monster of a business. It, it, it's,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: it's unbelievable.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: here. It's hard to get my head around it, but you, you go into a warehouse full of products and, and you've mentioned it, I think before the call, the Indiana Jones,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yes.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: the, the, um, the arc of the government's tucked to away on the shelf.

I, I, I've been to Mohawk warehouse warehouses where there is just acreages of material.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: but that, that's that week shipment that's going out the door. the industry is huge.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: You know, another thing that really fascinated me was, okay, you're working on a custom design

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: and let's say it's gonna go through. the CYP machine, I think this was Durkin related, right? So it would be a CYP machine. And I was just amazed how, and that's not just hospitality, right?

You're running other channels through there.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: So what was really cool to me is you're going through this design, let's say you get everything approved, the backlog on that machine is just unbelievable because [00:37:00] then you're like, okay, that'll be ready in like, I don't remember, 6, 8, 12 weeks, but you just slot in that design

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: and then it's, it's, it's in there.

Whereas in the furniture side of things, you know, it's, it's much more, um, it's much more lumpy. Like just once everything is approved, then you have to go into the factory and fit into their, but it's not one machine. It's so, it's hundreds or thousands of bodies

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: are touching this and putting it together and getting, and I was just, um, very fascinated by the, the amount and level of technology and automation that I saw just in the, in that.

In, in the dark machines.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah, yeah. It, it, it, it can be feast or famine. You know, there are, there are certain times of the year where there's more activity.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: one big order can soak up capacity very quickly. Um, so we love those big orders. We love the things that we can make with, you know, over and over and over the big volume jobs. but one big order can really stuff the plant very quickly.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: now we've got a [00:38:00] lot of equipment, so it takes a lot of that activity to really stuff us up. But, um, you know, it can, it can be feast and family in some worlds. The, the thing that's brilliant with Mohawk is, um, we manage our cash very well. Uh, and that if we need to, um, go out and buy new piece of equipment, we need to expand capacity, and it makes sense to do that. And there's a good payback we can do that. Um, in, in other flooring manufacturers, some of the smaller guys, it is harder. The, the, the margins aren't there. business isn't as sustainable. and they don't have the cash to reinvest.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Uh, and you have to keep ahead of technology in this game. So if you can't reinvest in yourself, um, the future looks very bleak.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah, we, we we're, we're in a really good, really good spot where we manage our cash really well.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: I want to go back to your origin story in England.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Aha.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: How did you, like what [00:39:00] brought you to the United States? Why leave where that was? Like you were eighth generation or, I don't know, multiple generation. I don't know. Fourth. Okay. Whatever. I, I, I tend to inflate things. So, fourth generation. What was the moment where you said, you know what, I'm gonna go give, uh, give the United States a try.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: That's probably deep and psychological. That one. Um, there, there, there was a moment in my life that it was just right to do. Um, and, you know, getting away from, um, hometown was, was the right thing to do at that, at that time. I probably should leave that there,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Oh,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: drinks, but,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: okay. I'll take you up on that one.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: sorry.

So I ended up in Los Angeles and you, you imagine a small home town, domestic, uh, manufacturing base going from there to Los Angeles. Gosh,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: And what year was that?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: That was, uh, 1994. there's

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: And where were you work? Where did you, where were you working when you [00:40:00] moved there In 94?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: that was Briton's.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Britain's,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: so Bri Briton's was probably the first to instigate us a field designer strategy where we, we, we almost abolished the design studio and we sent our designers out into the world

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: I was an intern in 1995 and six at Hirsch Bedner in Los

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: okay,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: So I'm sure you were in the office.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: We were, we were on 20th and Olympic. We were just around the corner from

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: wow.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Um,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: And they were like the, they were the biggest and the best back then. You were probably in there every day.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: All

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Wow.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: and their, and their business changed. So, so, so, so I moved, I moved to the States. It was, as for as hard as we worked, I probably worked harder in the US than I'd ever worked in my entire life. Um, but living in California, along PCH every morning to get to the office, Baywatch is being filmed at 7:00 AM on the beach. It was vacation all year long.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Um, and, and every moment of my life there was a new experience. And then, um, [00:41:00] later in my career, Mo I moved to Las Vegas where most of our activity was, most of the volume in hospitality on the west coast tends to be, um, that was a different world being exposed to Vegas and all the craziness there is.

Um, the stories, the stories that you could talk to forever about living in Vegas.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: I I have a question for you on the Vegas side of things. What's, from a, a business perspective, like what's, what's the best part or the most profitable? What tends to be the most profitable flooring order in, let's say a large format casino? Is it the, the casino floor? The corridors, the guest rooms?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: okay. So I, I would say area rugs and waroff mats tend to be good margin business.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Um, guest rooms tend to be high volume, repetitive stuff. Um, in a lot of most jobs in Vegas, there are bit situations. Most jobs, there's more than one [00:42:00] manufacturer chasing the same opportunity.

hmm.

So big volume jobs, margins, really small. small volume jobs don't tend to go to bid. Um, the intellectual property of the design is protected. Um, margins on the smaller jobs, small, unique jobs where it's just you, um, then you know that that's where you can make some money. the big, the big job's, just keeping the plant going.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: yeah.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: everything taken over.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Uh, I think what's interesting to me in doing custom furniture for guest rooms, um, that's one of the largest components of the room, right? It's, it could be anywhere from 35 to 45%,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah, yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: and oftentimes designers are instructed to just do, to bid. We will find people that can do it, that can fit, that have experience doing this.

What I've found on the textile side that's really intriguing to me, and I think this is the, the tremendous value add that you and your teams all over have, is once you start working on that artwork and you do that ip, the intellectual property,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: [00:43:00] yeah.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: and you get specified, it tends to get. Is that a valid statement or not?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah. Yeah. it takes some time, you know, if, if you are manufacturer A, B wins the opportunity

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: and they've gotta duplicate, well, copyright's your friend, right? Intellectual property is, is, is gonna help to protect you. you can't offer knockoff. has to be a very different alternative.

And, and, and at purchasing stage, the interior design time and investment's already done.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: have the design hours to go back into it, um, and, and start the process all over again. Uh, in, in some of the bigger jobs I've seen, people will bid it first against the set of our criteria, and then it's awarded and then designed and, and

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: probably a smarter way to go. As a manufacturer, you really want to get yourself locked in

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: a particular design it's an easier process. With, with, we're still, um, we're still respectful of [00:44:00] price. You, you'd never wanna gauge anybody. Um, so we're competitive. Um, but when you, when you own the intellectual property, you, you feel that you've got a bit more of an opportunity and in a lot of cases people do respect that.

You've put a lot of design time and sampling into it, so you've got a little bit more leverage. You're awarded because of that.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Well, I was also surprised in going through the different strike offs and the different iterations of design

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: you know, if I'm doing a wood finish sample, yeah, it could look different this way, or 90 degrees, like vertical, horizontal, or if I bring it outside, but I was just amazed at the, the nuance of a woven or tufted

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Oh,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: sample or the, if it's cut and looped and just how light hits it, how when it bends or does any, like, there's such a, I don't even have the words to describe, but it's, it's so nuanced and infinitely more complex, I think, than something three dimensional.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah. It's, it's all a tactile experience. [00:45:00] You know, I would never buy something, I'd never buy a carpet over the internet just looking at a flat digital image on the screen. I'm old fashioned, but you, you kind of gotta touch it and feel it.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: creating it with different fibers, with different machines on different machines, um, a complex experience.

I, I, something a lot of our, if you're not a carpet designer, it's hard to do

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah. What, what do you think, uh, for all the different areas, the rooms, the corridors, the, the casino floor, or you know, whatever you may find in hospitality, which one in your mind takes the most iterations from a strike off pers perspective to get it approved? Which area?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: generally, those areas that have, um, more high profile visibility.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: So in, in a casino, um, you know, big profile, big designs, it's, it's pretty prominent. Um, there is more time spent there generally to get it right, that it might be in a corridors,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: or in a guest [00:46:00] room, you know, and, but you're starting to get into areas where the design is less complex, less visible, less

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: in the, up in the rooms, let's say.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: in the

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: So interesting, and I hear this anecdotally, but in the casino floors, there's such a psychological aspect to the design, right? To, to, for just, um, way finding a, but also to kind of keep the people in the gambling pits, right? Not the tables. Can you share what's some of the thinking around there?

And when you're doing a design, does it go through a, a psych, is there a psychologist involved or, or is it just people's vast experience in gaming that they're like, oh no, let's do this, like anecdotally or, I guess actually, how do, how do you take that psychological compo component into those large format designs?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Uh, there's some suspicion in there as well. So, um, at, at my career in Vegas, I probably did, oh, I don't know, 60% of the casinos. I

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Wow.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: car before, over the years that I was there. Um, you never design animals [00:47:00] into a casino carpet. Bad luck.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Oh wow.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: know, for some cultures thoses could be bad luck, certain colors for bad luck.

Um, you are right, there are no clocks, there are no windows in casinos. Um, the carpet's generally gonna be brighter.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Mm-hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: It just adds to more stimulus. Want to keep people awake, into the early hours of the morning. it used to be back in the day when we used to use coins in the machines. For the casino, if you dropped a coin on the floor and you couldn't find it, 'cause the carpet was just so damn busy. that was the casino's money that you walked away. They'd pick it by the end of the night.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Oh my God. I had no idea.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: there were things like that. Then you've gotta start thinking, okay, people are drinking late in the evening. There are a lot of spills. Um, there may be cigarette burns

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: and activity in the floor. So you've, you've gotta look at the types of styles and the contrast of colors. Um, there, there, there's a whole bunch of things. One of my first casino designs I did, and we took it right the way through passenger designer to be approved by the client, was, um, [00:48:00] it was the bell of New Orleans. It was a riverboat, and they'd actually taken an American flag they draped it around, uh, sort of a, a leather belt a carpet design.

It looked beautiful, then the client said, this would be terribly bad to have people walking on the American

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Oh yeah.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: And it was like, gosh, yeah, you're right. Right. So, so, you know, for over a career, you, you build up some of these you shouldn't do

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: scenarios and yeah, they were absolutely right. So we, we changed it to a, I think we changed it, a British flag or something like that, but, we, we changed it so it wasn't the American flag anymore.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: So with all those surprises that you got within the, within the ho the hospitality space, in your, in your textile design, was there anyone in particular that changed your design process?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yes. Yeah. But that, I mean, there, there, there are many, um, I, I, one I always tell people that was, um, it probably opened my eyes a little bit. Uh, Edwards Theaters in California, I dunno if they're still [00:49:00] there. They were an independent brand, um, when I first did the design work for them. but they had a series of 20 or 30, um,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: I.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: They had issues during the day and at weekends. A lot of the people that manage the property, um, the spills, the stains, the cleanup work with students. if someone builds, spill a of popcorn or a Coke on the floor, that's a huge area that's gotta be cleaned up. A lot of the students just wouldn't clean it up. So I became unsightly. So they said, okay, let's, let's do this. Let's take 70% of the color of the carpet and let's make it the same color that Coke dries to. And then let's take some yellow tufts and let's sprinkle 'em around in a pattern there. So that looks like popcorn. And, and as we went through building the carpet, it was a very organic carpet with some structural shapes in there as well. But we built into that all those components of stain and performance, those things that would look dirty and unsightly. And once it was [00:50:00] installed and every single day of the week throughout the year, it looked like the cleanest carpet you'd ever seen.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: You would just stick to it when you're walking.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: you would stick to it. Yeah. But you, you built those components of camouflage into it.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: so, so, so for an audience that uses those spaces, it was like, you know what, this is a well maintained property. It was just well thought through design,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: thinking through all the performance issues that you are an experience in that space. And it was like that, that makes perfect sense. And that they would come back and they would clean it, hot water, extract it, you know, frequently anyway.

But, um, just day to day there were, there was some thought process there that helped to create a better, better

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: I love it.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: And, and, and at the end of the day, 10 years, 20 years into the lifecycle of that product, when it came out, I thought it looked great. They just changed it 'cause they changed the style.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: But it was just, it was designing, um, for the performance needs of that space. And, and that's something I will stress to clients on any designers that we hire is, you need to think through these things. put a very [00:51:00] tight checkerboard into a carpet design. 'cause a spill is round. It's just gonna magnify the, the look of that

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: So things you would like to do best not to.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Okay. I love this train of thought because you know, I've been doing custom furniture for, I don't know, 20 something years. I always think, oh, well actually I don't think this anymore. But I feel like I've seen everything and I'm still surprised. So with Mohawk being around for 150 years, obviously you're not there for all 150, but you think you've seen everything in a two dimensional plane.

Right. But I'm sure you're still surprised. So what was, what's the most recent big surprise that you've had where you've thought you've seen everything? Mm-hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: We, I, I mentioned earlier about the, um, the fiber with the hollow core and, you know, it pushes stains away. Uh, I I, and I can't remember what property it was now and it's probably good that I don't know either. 'cause I'm sure they were very embarrassed, but they, they had a, a semi white carpet with some pattern in [00:52:00] a, uh, high roller suite. And the guests that used that ex that space got a bit excited one day, one day and had a bit of a wild party with, um, some chocolate cake. And, and literally it must have been a whole chocolate cake was just smushed into the walls and the flooring. And this carpet was like a murder scene.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Oh boy. I wish I would. That could have been fun if we were there.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: And, and because of the fiber type that we got, we were able to just hot water, extract that

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: sugar and coke and, and everything else outta it. And it, and we restored it back to being what it was. And, and that was. That was earlier on in my career when I first started working at Mohawk. And it was like, you know what?

Just in fiber innovation, that is incredible that you can take this horror scene and restore it back to what it was brand new,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: but that had been someone's crazy experience. It must have driven the hotel crazy.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Wow.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: because, 'cause they, they've got someone else that wants that, use that room within 24 hours.

So,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Okay. So then that begs the [00:53:00] next question. So you and your team are designing everything. You have the factory or the mill and the machines making the things. Where are those scientists that are coming up with these new filament, like, uh, in, in the lab? Like, are those people that are just out there working at DuPont or whatever that are figuring this stuff out?

Or does Mohawk have their own series of, of scientists that are kind of pushing the envelope in there?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: For the, for the most part we've got r and d, uh, that's just actually below me. Um, there's a, a lab area that's sort of floored down from where we're at right now. So we, we'll work with them fairly closely when we're coming up with new innovation in fiber types and materials.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: and that's where our testing's done as well.

So if we're testing what's going wrong with a product or what, you know, something else out there, uh, it's all downstairs. that helps me in development to work with the latest materials, latest fiber, latest dye products, them here, and then it goes downstairs to another area, we [00:54:00] actually make those samples as well.

So it's all contained in this one space that there is innovation that happens out there in the private sector, that, you know, um, people will come to us and we'll dig around and we'll find them, those things that we wanna buy into, um, or just buy that business for its ip.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: There we go, Mohawk, we just acquire you for your ip. There we go.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: where it makes sense,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Check out this balance sheet. We got you.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Come on board. Wow. That's really exciting. And then when you're, when you're looking at companies out there on an m and a from an m and a perspective, do they ever bring you the head of design in to talk about these things or to get your feeling?

Or is it, is it totally different? I'm just curious. The role that design plays in the overall strategy of the company.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: I, I'm probably the last person you wanna bring in. I, I I mean, if you're looking at acquisitions, no, we wouldn't get bought in once the acquisitions happens. Uh, and then we've gotta take that [00:55:00] material that they may and convert it into a product. we tend to get involved. Then there, there have been occasions where I've been bought in and we've, we've had a chat and we reviewed things and, and decide whether it makes sense, but, it wouldn't be my decision to buy.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: So from a design perspective, maybe this is a better question from a design perspective, what's a really exciting recent acquisition that Mohawk made and why?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: VPI in Sheboygan, Wisconsin.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm. Sheboygan, I've been there.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: homogeneous, um, tile business that we bought a few years ago, and it, it's Sheboygan. I, I actually love it up there at certain times of the year. I'd never go there in the winter. Um, but it's a actually quite a nice little environment. Um, two hours drive. I think it's two hours drive outside of Chicago. Um, but a small business, um, very hands-on what it makes. Um, the design process was very comfortable. Uh, and we will be launching a new line with them in July that, um, [00:56:00] I think is very innovative.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: And your team has helped create that line.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Oh, wow.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: mean, that was a business that we bought that, um, I had to get educated very quickly, get up there and find out how they do it.

Um, and, and there are, things that we do in the carpet industry. Um, areas where we control our creative whims for the benefit of creating better, more efficient commercial processes. Um, that we applied some of our best practices in the carpet industry to manufacturer we bought to make things more efficient, reduce waste, create a better looking product. so we've applied some of those things. So we've taken what was a, a reasonably profitable business, and we've applied our strategies and thinking and processes now to make them a really profitable business.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Wow,

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: so in, in recent years as one of our more recent acquisitions on the commercial side, that's been a really smart acquisition. It really has.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: fantastic. Um, okay, so Mohawk has [00:57:00] 150 nearly years under their belt. You less. Um, as you're looking forward, what's exciting you most about what you see in the future?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Gosh, uh, I, I seeing us grow, we, we are, we are a big player in the commercial market. in some segments, not so much. Um, you know, that there are certain segments within our business that we have the opportunity to grow a lot more into.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Um, some of other segments where we are, we own chunk of that business. Um, growth there is slightly smaller, but, but you imagine everything we do outside of residential, everything we do all those first flooring areas, we've got huge potential. I, I still think for as old as our business is, we are still a young business that can go a lot further and, and as, and as we, we do acquire additional businesses, um, you know, the understanding those, those components and those styles and the products and things we can do with [00:58:00] it, that's quite exciting. I'm glad you've noticed. I'm not, I'm younger than 150 years

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yes.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: the lines probably. um, I, I, I think there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of great opportunity out there for us,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Fantastic.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: globally.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Okay, so now. Let's go back in time to 1994. You just landed at LAX, you're getting off the plane. I think at that point the smog was starting to clear. That's when I was early in la It was still kind of bad in the, in the, in the fall, but it's gotten much better. But like the mark I'm talking to now, magically appears in front of 1994.

Mark, what advice do you have for yourself as you get off that plane at LAX?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: I I, I've really enjoyed the experience I've grown. Um, I, I would do it again. I. There, there is, there are many times I look back at some of my buddies who stayed in my hometown that go to the same pub every Saturday night and they're close to family. [00:59:00] you cut. That's irreplaceable. Um, there, there's a component of me that go, if I just stayed there,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: what would've been different closer to apart family and parents and everything else. Um, so you, you, you give and take, right? I mean, I, I I probably gained more than I've lost, but in a family sense, I probably lost more than I could have gained.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: So, um, there, there is no perfect world. There is no perfect solution out there. you make of life what you can. Um, you strive for the best that you can be, uh, and how you can give that back. And you, you, you accept what you get.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: you, you, what, the time you put in and how much you invest in that is, is what you earn.

And it's, it's well earned.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Keep calm. Carry on.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Exactly. Yes, exactly.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Uh, okay. And then one, one last question. So let's pretend there's [01:00:00] a, a gaggle of aspiring textile designers out there listening to this.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: Yeah,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: What do you say to them?

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: I would, I would reach out to us. I'd shown an interest. We are always looking for new talent. I, I am an age in my life where I am very much more about giving back to students. I learned a lesson from my wife very early on that manufacturers that support students as an investment for our future. Those students become loyal, future clients, loyal future, um, employees. Those that turn them away at the door and don't allow 'em in the showroom. Um, don't provide them with samples. you've lost a customer for life. And, and, and that's not my customer. That's the person that replaces my me. That's, that's the people that come after me in Mohawk. Those are the customers I'm looking to, um, make sure that [01:01:00] we win over for future generations. it is not hard to give a little bit back to some students. Uh, just give 'em a little bit of your time and experience, um, to sort of groom the next generation. We, we, we owe it to ourselves. We owe it to them.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: I agree, pay it forward. We've all had incredible experiences, so the more we can reach out to the next generation and kind of, I always say shorten their journey. Um, and it doesn't even need to be like an official, be a, a mentor in a capacity. Sometimes just a little nudge in a simple conversation pays incredible dividends.

It's amazing how, how, how much impact you can have from just little such small interactions as well.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: I get a smile on my face every time that I'm there to help mentor and point them in the right direction. It, it, it, it's a way of reliving my youth.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Hmm.

Wonderful.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: precious,

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Mark, this has been so fantastic. Thank you for letting me, um, speak. As a idiot with respect to flooring. 'cause I just don't, [01:02:00] I don't understand a lot about it, but I, you know, I'm just fascinated by all aspects of what we do and having met you and seen like your rise and, you know, I don't know, it's just, you've always been just a great face and a nice handshake throughout my career as well.

So I thank you. Um, I thank you very much for your time and experience.

mark-page_1_03-26-2025_142505: your, uh, your inviting me onto the show.

dan-ryan_54_03-26-2025_142505: Thank you. And also to all of our listeners, from students to people who have been doing it for a long time. If this changed your idea of hospitality or design or if you think someone could benefit from listening to this, perhaps a textile designer, please pass it to them.

Send it along. We grow by word of mouth. Um, I appreciate you all so much and if it wasn't for you guys listening and watching, I wouldn't be here interviewing really cool people like Mark. So thank you very much.[01:03:00]