Defining Hospitality

DH - Andrea Foster
===

Speaker: [00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.

This podcast is sponsored by Berman Fall Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Today's guest is a hospitality executive who effortlessly blends the creative and analytic sides of our industry. She's a regular speaker at the hospitality schools of Cornell. I. Boston University and Purdue. brought her expertise to the likes of Mival, CBRE and Marcus Hotels. She's on the board of trustees at the A HLA Foundation and on the advisory board of their forward initiative, which [00:01:00] is focused on women advancing hospitality. a graduate of the Cornell Hotel School as well, and she's the current EVP of Development for Hospitality at Mind click, which is a data and analytics company in sustainability, focused on product intelligence for renovations and new build developments. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Andrea Foster.

Welcome, Andrea.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Thank you so much, Dan. It's a pleasure to be here. I appreciate the invitation and look forward to this conversation.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Yes. And wow, such a long list of accomplishments and things that you're doing and passionate about and I really appreciate that in the sense that, um, we all have the ability to, with intention, create. Not just like the why of what we do, but also just like the what and the vocation. And oftentimes I get really focused in the why, like I want to be in my purpose focused, impacting others, um, whether it's projects or [00:02:00] or all things in between.

But I'm just really impressed by all of the things that you've and that the path that you're on currently with mind Click. Because I think from my perspective as a supplier to the hospitality industry, it's such an incredible platform that creates a mirror and a measurement stick by which we can all, if, if we so choose, um, be on a path of continual improvement.

So for all of you, um, manufacturers out there, or owners or management companies that are looking for a way to. Easily measure where you are and plot a course for where you want to be. This, um, stay and listen to this whole thing 'cause it's really important and it's really important to me, um, as like a raving fan of mind.

Click. So I'll start with that really pumping you up here, Andrea.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Well, thank you so much. No, we, we appreciate your engagement and your longtime partnership with Mind Click. Um, really impressed with the [00:03:00] improvements that you've made, you know, within your process, um, you know, as a result of the measurement. So, um, you know, we, we couldn't have a more shining example of, you know, the, the impact that working with Mind Click can have.

So thank you so much.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: and just so we'll get it out of the way in the beginning, um, we've been a partner or, or a participant in the Mind Click, um, program, I don't know, for three or four years now. I think maybe five. Um, but what I love about it and what I also don't like about it is that it's a mirror showing up to us as a manufacturer. At Berman Falk, where we make custom case good and seeding and it's a mirror and we can see where we can improve, right where we need work. Um, and for us, like the lowest hanging fruit and for most everyone is packaging. So we got rid of all of the, all of the, um, EPS foam and all of our packaging. Uh, just about a year ago, I think we just celebrated our one year anniversary. And I think, um, it was the equivalent of like [00:04:00] 30 or thir or 40 guest rooms worth of EPS foam that we diverted from landfill. And that's pretty remarkable. It may sound small, but there's no barrier to entry to do this. If any other manufacturer wanted to copy what we do, it's not like some proprietary thing. If 10 of our competitors did it, that could be 300 rooms of EPS foam diverted. And what I love about the mind click platform is these baby steps that are these water drops that are the first phase of a waterfall. So, so. Thank you for all that you and Joanna and the whole team at Mind Click has done to like create this platform that also doesn't really impact our schedules and the way that we do things where there's other ones out there that like really can be an impediment to a schedule and trying to get a hotel open. 'cause what I found is, okay, we provide furniture or whatever to a hotel, but that, what is all of us people that are geared towards production in the hospitality industry, we're really there to open the [00:05:00] hotel. Everything that we do is to help our customers manage their risk that hotel open so that they can get heads and beds and return, um, to investors, um, and increase the value of the property.

So thank you. Um, and I know we're gonna talk a lot about all of this, and I'm talking way more than I normally do at the beginning of this, but again, I'm a raving fan. And, um, I'm just gonna ask you now because you've had this incredible, um, career arc through the hospitality industry. What is ho? Like what keeps you in here?

Why do, why hospitality? What does it mean to you?

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: That is a great question and I love it. Um, so as you mentioned, I went to the Cornell Hotel School and, uh, the, the motto, if you will, of the Cornell Hotel School is life is service. And, um, you know, it was stated by em, Statler, and, uh. That was something that when I saw it on a plaque in the school, when I visited for the very first time as a, uh, you know, early in my senior year of, of, uh, high [00:06:00] school, um, it really meant something to me.

And what I've realized over the years is even though that's something that is a, you know, it's a foundation of the school and, you know, I had just appeared at the school, you know, for, uh, for that interview, I realized it was something that's just always been my way of being. When someone needs something, my reaction is how can I help?

What can I do to help, uh, you know, respond to that, to help solve your situation, you know, to cr you know, create an easier path to whatever your destination is. So, um, you know, in my mind, hospitality that life is service. It's caring for people, it's anticipating their needs. Um, it's supporting others.

Sometimes it's. Truly taking care of another's needs. I mean, back in my operations days, it was taking care of guests and customers and whatever it was that they need in, you know, in that moment. And at other times, it's helping others achieve their goals, you know, through support and empowerment and just helping [00:07:00] create a path that they can walk on to achieve.

So I think hospitality is really broad. It's truly about taking care of people and, you know, it's, it's, for me being a part of this village that is just helping others in whatever way that, um, you know, that they may need at the time. Because I truly believe that none of us can achieve anything meaningful alone.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: coming out of the pandemic, um. I, I may be getting your story wrong, but I feel like you were consulting and doing a, doing a bunch of things as we all were to try and like get through whatever the hell the world just threw at us. Um, and then you started connecting with Mind Click and, and they were part of what you, what what you were doing, um, as a consultant, but you, I think you were so taken by them.

And so, I dunno, aligned with the vision of what mind click is and what it can mean, not just for the people you wanna take care of, but for the planet as well. Um, what made you decide to go full steam ahead and be like, [00:08:00] okay, I love all these other things, but I'm committed to mind click and I'm gonna get this thing going,

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Absolutely. Well, yeah.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: going,

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: I want, I wanna be the rocket fuel to be

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: I,

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: onto this.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: well, uh, so yeah, let me, I'll step back for a moment. Um, and just say, so I was the, um, head of development for Marcus Hotels and Resorts for over seven years, and was in that role when the pandemic hit. I stayed with Marcus, um, through, uh. Uh, I said early, early to mid, uh, 2023.

And so that was when I took a little step back, actually took a little sabbatical. Um, well,

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: all have on our bucket list. A sabbatical.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: exactly. Well, I, I always say I think it's, you know, those who are our age, Dan. Um, we didn't, I, I, I don't know if it shouldn't speak for you, but, you know, we didn't take a year off after college and travel the world.

I think, um, I spent the three days after graduation driving myself to, you know, my, my first job, you know, my relocation, and three days [00:09:00] later I was, you know, started my 60 plus hour work week. Um, you know, as a front desk manager, you know, in a, in a Marriott hotel

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Where?

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: and

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: the picture.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Open,

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: was it?

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: oh, Annapolis, Maryland.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Lovely.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: the Annapolis Marriott Waterfront, which is now the, uh, wa Annapolis Waterfront Hotel.

It's an autograph instead of a Marriott. So,

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Oh,

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: and you know, I started at the beginning of the very busy summer in Annapolis, and so, you know, it was a job. I was on my feet 60 hours that day at the front desk. And, um, so, you know, we, I didn't take that time off. And so, you know, I, I think, you know, it, it got, you know, too, I, I realized that now is the time, you know, uh, approaching this point in my career and in my life, that it was a great opportunity to take a little time to enjoy, uh, time with those I love, you know, and, you know, dear family friends, and, um, you know, just do some of the things that, you know, when we're working as much as we do, we just don't have the opportunity to take advantage of.

So I did that for the [00:10:00] rest of 2023. And then you're absolutely right. I stepped into consulting for 2024 and, um. Really focused on doing things a little bit differently. I wasn't, you know, doing market feasibility studies and so forth, like I'd been doing, you know, for so many years, or specifically, you know, underwriting hotel deals.

I decided to focus on working with some startup and scale up companies and leveraging my network. Um, you know, I like to share that, you know, some people think of the word network as transactional. I'm collecting business cards, I'm connecting with people on LinkedIn. Um, it's not transactional. It's very much focused on relationships.

And over the course of my career, I have met people along the way, um, both professionally and personally. Um, I tend to, I, I kind of say, this sounds a little bit weird, but I'm a people collector. No matter where I go, I will meet somebody and, you know, I've, I don't think I've ever met a stranger. So in the course of, [00:11:00] of, you know, my life, I've met a lot of people and, um, you know, I love that.

Many of the people I know and have, you know, been connected to, in some cases for decades are doing some really cool things. And I am able to assist by connecting these, you know, entrepreneurs and, you know, really innovative thinkers to other people in my network to help them achieve their goals. Back to, you know, again, how can I help?

So I focused 20, 24 on doing that, and one of the people I got connected with was Joanna Abrams at the founder, CEO of Mind Click. And when we met, we were connected through a mutual friend of both of ours and when we first talked to each other and then actually met in person, I love to tell the story.

When Joanna and I actually met in person, we decided to do a SoulCycle class together and then go to Biddy and B'S coffee shop is

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: get to like just really sweat all over each other and become a mess together.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: We,

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: [00:12:00] it, go through with

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: yeah.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Then go have something hotter to heat you up even more.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah. Yeah. I do think we had iced coffee, but Yeah. Or iced chi or whichever it was. Um, but, uh, but we actually looked at each other, went you look familiar, and we have so many people we are both connected to for many years that we, we were actually amazed that we hadn't met before. So we sat down, we had a conversation about, you know, really what I was doing, what my click was doing.

Um, our conversation went a lot longer than we expected it to go. Um, and so finally we're like, okay, we actually have to get on with our doing our other things today. And, um, you know, it really became clear that working together would be valuable for both of us. Um, so

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: wanna, I wanna interrupt there for one

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: yeah.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: So something really resonated with me and I know you said I. This may sound weird. You collect people. I feel, I feel the same way.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: I, and it's almost like, I don't want it to sound like Silence of the Lambsy, but I've always been a collector of people. And, um, [00:13:00] my son just sent me this text message from something I had said somewhere where it was like, technology is cool, but people are cooler. Right. and I loved how you framed it up on putting, it's not, it's not a transactional thing. Um, it's truly like getting to know people at, at a deeper level, knowing what their needs are and then how I know other people that can help shorten their journeys.

Right. And it's like I've introduced people to get married. I've, um,

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: same.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: people who want to, um. Try a different career, or even this podcast, I get so many inbounds like, oh, I didn't know I could do this or that, or the other thing. And it's like I get to hear them and be like, well, what's most important to you?

And I, it's almost like a coach, right? And I might not be the one where that relationship like will flourish into something else, but I know someone else who might maybe, maybe we could do something together. But I love that idea of people collecting. Um, and because you really have to get to know the, the relationship and then you can almost filter [00:14:00] for culture

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yes,

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: okay, this person is looking for some someone and this person I think, fits that really well.

So have a talk. And it might work, it might not. But I think ultimately it's about getting those, finding those people, helping coach them on like what their biggest need is and where they want to be, where they're, where they're in, where they want to be intentionally. somehow it's like, how do I get them to try as many things or meet other people and be open to seeing if there's that like heart connection between the two?

Right. And I also, and, and having all these conversations, if people want to change a career or change up what they're doing, I think the consulting route is a great thing to do, especially as we get older, because it forces us all to like lean into that Rolodex of people that we've collected and try out different things because we're, our brains are plastic. There's plasticity in our brains. Like we can [00:15:00] always change and try different things, but we can also, at that stage, at a certain stage in life, you can try out different things as a consultant where you're, you're kind of like a plug and play person and you get to try and then I. I think this is my long way of getting around where you get to know Joanna and see what they're up to and the passion behind what they're trying to do. Then it's like, oh shit. This is like, is the thing.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yes. Well, it's funny that the way that you just articulated that, 'cause I love it and I don't know, I, this was goodness, 20 years ago now, I think that I read Steve Jobs book and he said, you know, it's hard to connect the dots forward, but you can connect the dots back backwards. And he talked about having taken a calligraphy class in college that he never knew would actually matter to him later.

But the fonts that he created in the original, you know, Macintosh, where he went away from, you know, the typewriter spacing into something more, you know. Serif, you know, so to speak. And, um, and change the, the width between [00:16:00] came from his calligraphy class. And so it's really interesting where I, I can't say that I set out in the consulting saying, I'm gonna try, you know, that I'm, I'm going to, in essence, it was like a one year interview, you know, working with, you know, with different people saying, okay, you know, who do will I fit with best?

And I don't know that I looked at it that way. I just went in and said, how can I help? I have this, I call it basket of skills and experience, you know, everybody's basket of skills and experiences and talents is different than everyone else's. We are all unique in that. And so now I have, you know, I'll mumble, you know, more than 25 years out of, out of college, um, and experience in my career and how can I leverage that experience, skills and talents plus the network that I have developed over all these years in order to create benefit to others.

So I think that was the way I thought about it. But then looking back. The opportunity was again, meeting Joanna and starting to do some business development work with Mind Click. It was the ability [00:17:00] to leverage my network to say, look, this is a company doing something really meaningful, but more in addition to that, um, something meaningful.

It is necessary needed in our industry. The ability to use, say as like a measuring stick, as a, as a tool to see how we're doing when it comes to sustainability. And even beyond that, just understanding the whole pro process of our supply chain and the nuances within it and making decisions as a result.

Um, you know, the ability to have an impact in that way. Um, you know, looking at our industry. Hospitality isn't the most sustainable, you know, um, I, I'll, I'll use a a quote from Joanna. I love how she says this, um, things ugly out before they wear out. So every seven or eight years we've gotta do a renovation because the colors now aren't this, they're that.

We've gotta change it out. And so how can we continue to do this? Because we need to take care of our guests. We need to, you know, [00:18:00] uh, uh, meet the expectations of a fresh, new product, but how can we do it in a way that is less negatively impactful, you know, to our environment, to our community, to our planet,

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: and, and ultimately create a healthy interior for all those who are staying, you know, within it.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: I think also it's like you, you say hospitality might not be the most sustainable. I mean, really being a human is not the most sustainable, so let's just be real about it. And, but I, I do think that all of these small changes have tremendous results. Whether, again, the foam thing is just a little. A little thing, but like when us GBC came around, um, and like in the mid two thousands, early to mid two thousands and came up with the whole lead platform and it was really catching fire, or that I noticed it first in the early to mid two thousands and became a lead accredited professional. Um, by virtue of that, there's like a, a market need for, [00:19:00] people want wanting to be intent intentional about how they build and when they came up with their for just indoor air quality, but also from sustainably harvested materials, you, it was difficult to find stuff, I'd say in 2006 and before that met those criteria. But I would say after 2000 8, 9, 10, somewhere in that zone, you, you could only find this other stuff that was better for indoor air quality and sustaina more sustainably harvested, um, through different change of custody and, and really, um. Real measuring. And that's why I think all of these efforts are incredible because we might not have known what we were doing before, but now we can be mindful and intentional about doing things a certain way and, and have a lasting impact.

And I was also struck by, Joanna mentioned, I've talked about this a bunch of times, I can't remember the guy's name. He wrote an article for Metropolis [00:20:00] Magazine saying like, if a building was, gonna butcher it. But if a building is built, let's say you, uh, last for a hundred years, um, the impact that the ongoing renovations have of that building over the a hundred years have more of an impact on the environment than building the building and having it operate for a hundred years. Um, I forget the guy's name, you probably know, but it's, it's just, we don't think about these and also the renovations that happen, I. The FFF and E is always the last line item on a development budget, right? You got all your, your acquisition costs, your hard costs, all the soft costs of consult, and then you have FFF and E at the bottom, but that actually has an outsize impact on the environment and also the guest experience.

It's probably the most important from a guest experience perspective.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: A hundred percent I'll, I'll address the two different things that you shared. So not only, uh, you know, is the ongoing, uh, you know, renovation cycle and operations, even more impactful than the initial bill, but [00:21:00] 80% of the buildings that are going to be here in 2050 are already here. So just think of, you know, we, we have to figure out how to renovate the existing product better because, you know, it's, it's, this is what we're gonna be living with for so, you know, for so long.

So that's, you know, really incredibly, um, incredibly important.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: I, I, I think it also the platform from my collect that I've experienced, it's also I, if you own a hotel or a portfolio of hotels, I think what's most interesting is, I forget the German general who said this, it was World War I begins with the C, but he said like, perfect is the enemy of good. Right? And I think what this platform does, if you, let's say you own a portfolio of hotels, or you, or you're a brand a portfolio of hotels, okay?

If you have no data on sustainability with respect to and e. Why not have visibility in there? Okay, you know what, you're not gonna get a hundred percent, but [00:22:00] geez, why? Let's all strive for 80% and

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: to that 80% and how can we turn the, the volume up a little bit?

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: on? Or just say, Hey, how, how can we turn the volume up a lot on certain things?

And then we're like, okay, we, this is a longer term project of packaging or, uh, finishes or architectural coatings or paints. I don't know what it is, but like it. But once we've all measure what's happening, then all of the stakeholders involved from the brand or owner down to the supplier, and then material supplier, raw material supplier, then we can like chart out our own strategies that help it move the ball forward even more.

How are you see, so since you've been co consulting with Mind Click and now an EVP with them, how have you seen the market

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: So I think first it's a matter of awareness that such a measurement tool as mind click exists when I'm having conversations with some people. And a lot of my, my, uh, my network is in the C-suite, it's on the development [00:23:00] side. Um, and I'm, you know, have been meeting the designers and the architect. I knew some, but now I'm, I'm going deeper on, on that side.

Um, but as I share what we do, I have had some high level people just kind of pause and go, huh, wow. I, I hadn't even thought of that. They thought about the building, you know, the, what is it lead? Is it not, you know, the building, uh, you know, initial building, you know. Core, and then they think about the operations, you know, lower flow toilets and you know, all the plumbing LED lights and things like that.

But they hadn't thought about the, the procurement in between the FF and e purchasing. And the response is, wow, that's brilliant. And I think some of the, lack of a, of, uh, thought about the FFF and e is not knowing how to make those decisions, not understanding, you know, how do I get that data? Because it seems, it, it's complicated.

There's a, there's a complicated process, but we've simplified it to say, here's all the data from each of the products, and then we can put [00:24:00] this into a very digestible dashboard for decision making for the owners, the operators, the procurement team, the designers, everyone who's involved in the product, whoever touches it.

Um, so I think that's what I've seen is people, um, really being impressed that this exists. Um, so I think that's a, that's a, a key part of this. Um, and. The, and another thing that you had said before about, you talked about, um, the interiors focusing on, you know, that the guest, their experience is much more about the interiors than it is about, you know, the, the, the actual shell and core of the building itself.

mean,

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: I don't wanna upset any architects here, but guys,

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: well, well, no, what's, I think what it is you go, wow, this is a beautiful building, but you don't think so much about the steel and all the different, you know, pieces that went into building the building. You're going, wow, this is beautiful. Um, and then you're walking inside and you're seeing everything that, um, you interact with that is the hard and soft.

You know, uh, [00:25:00] furnishing selections within the property, and those are the things you're actually touching. You're sitting down and you're touching and interacting. And those are the things that are, um, the most impactful for both your, your experience, your, your enjoyment, your pleasure of your surroundings, as well as the health of the surroundings.

So just, you know it when you walk in and, you know, a freshly renovated room and you go, oh, it looks beautiful, but it, it smells like paint and the new carpet. I mean, you don't want that. You want that healthy, fresh feeling. Um, and, and s you know, sensibility when you, when you enter and when you experience that.

And, but being able to see the data, um, throughout and making decisions around that helps you on the end result to ensure that you have chosen better. So, back to your point about, you know, uh, perfect is the enemy of the good. Um, I'm also going to forget who to credit this to, but there's a concept around 1% better every day. So there's a kaizen [00:26:00] approach of continuous improvement. It's not about being binary, it's really there are our eco labels and certifications out there, which we, we ingest within our rating system. But it's hard to say something is sustainable or not. There are sustainable aspects, but as you said, it's not sustainable to be human.

So, you know, we're always going to be creating some kind of an impact, but how can we make choices where our impact is less negative? How can we, you know, make improvements along the way to, you know, make our, our resulting impact positive? How can we give back and not take away Soma?

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: I think another gi, another give back is when you do the analysis after a project. There's that whole cradle to cradle assessment from, of all the different inputs into there, and I think that there's an opportunity for storytelling. Within the operations team at the hotel that can speak with pride to all of these things.

And it's like super visual and [00:27:00] graphical. And I dunno, I find that whenever I have any kind of experience, if someone working at a restaurant or a hotel or an airline tells me a story, I'm, I'm, I don't know, maybe I'm just easily amused or I'm, people are cool, I'll listen to whatever they say and, uh, but I just, I, it just shows me that from a, a culture perspective, that they're just bought in hook line and sinker and there's something, there's something bigger than just this hotel room or hotel that I'm staying at. Um, I talk to a lot of people at trade shows and things, and this actually just came up at HD Vegas and they're like, oh, you know, we're not sure about Mind Click because you know, you gotta pay for it and it's expensive and blah, blah, blah. I say to them, I'm like. As a, as the values in our company at Berman Falk, we would've been doing this anyway.

We would've hired a full-time sustainability co consultant and tried to help us go and improve. But the mind collect platform for a fraction of the cost, from my [00:28:00] perspective, our perspective, um, gives us a path to do that and plugs us into a larger ecosystem. Um, what kind of objections do you hear from, just say brands and manufacturers or like, what's the resistance to some of them joining?

Because I do feel like we've made it over the hump and I feel like that there is this larger, um, buy-in that's happened and continuing to happen with mind click in the, in industry wide. But what are some of the, um, objections that you hear these days and how do you talk, how do you speak to those objections?

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: So, um, I spend a lot of time interacting with the owners, the operators, um, you know, who are focused on, you know, doing the projects and utilizing the relationships that we have with you as a vendor and all the data that you bring forward. But working with them as well as working with some of the brands.

And so what we see is. for [00:29:00] us, it's about getting to the right person. So, um, a lot of the times, you know, we, we might first end up with, with a person who's in the sustainability space.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Mm-hmm.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: We love having the conversations with the sustainability team, but we also wanna make sure that we're getting to the sales and marketing team.

We wanna make sure that we're getting into the design and construction and project management folks because there's benefit to each of them. You know, the person who's heading up ESG is has certain metrics that they wanna meet, certain reporting that they wanna do to their stakeholders, to the public, et cetera.

Um, and so they have a certain, um, type of information that they're looking for. Our reporting provides that. But in addition, uh, design and construction, we have the ability to provide a dashboard that gives transparency through the supply chain so you can understand. Through the vendors I'm considering which ones are rated at which point through nine different KPIs that, that, you know, that we follow and that we track and [00:30:00] measure, um, as well as where the factories are, which then you can start to say, okay, what are the cost impacts?

You know, depending on where, where, uh, the items are produced, the transportation of those, any issues, you know, if you're going through the Suez Canal or the Panama Canal and things, you can start to see a visual, uh, representation of what that path looks like and what the potential impacts could be. You know, we've got a lot of global impacts happening.

Um, so these are ways to have some, uh, visibility into that. And then on the sales and marketing side, looking at it from the operator standpoint, and there are groups who own hotels, there are groups who operate hotels. Some are one and the same, some are different. But from the operator standpoint, um, and the sales and marketing piece is.

There is such a significant trend in our world, um, around spending on wellness. So I wanna marry these two things 'cause I think it's really important is wellness and sustainability. Um, the, the money we [00:31:00] spend and the effort we, we take as individuals to improve our health is not disconnected from taking care of the environment, the community, the planet.

I mean, these are really one and the same. And there, it's a $6.3 trillion industry in wellness, growing significantly, year over year. Aspects of it are wellness, tourism, wellness, real estate. You know, there's a lot of different aspects to that and where people are spending money and, and caring, you know, about this.

Um, so then on the sustainability side, um, being able to share from a hotel standpoint, these are the choices we've made to make your experience, your guest room, our public spaces, our meeting rooms better for you and the planet, and marketing that to your corporate travel buyers, your meeting and event planners and your discerning customers who, um, for this, you know, for them, this is top of mind.

They spend a lot of money on ac solubles and, you know, all the care things, stuff like that [00:32:00] in order to keep themselves healthy. So knowing that the hotel is making an intentional decision. To choose better products and better interiors is something that resonates with the customer. We did a study after a, uh, renovation where my, where my click was involved and we did an ab marketing test.

So the, a marketing test was to guests of the hotel post renovation saying, how did you install your enjoy your stay, you know, we recently completed a renovation, you know, what's your, you know, intent to return and your satisfaction level. Okay, so that was a b. What was your experience like? Could you tell us about it?

Um, and rate it, uh, after post our renovation and in our renovation, and then they told the story. So your point back, your point earlier about storytelling, the importance of saying, these are the things that we did. Here are some examples, which is what my click pulls through and says, here are some talking points and some visuals that say these are the things that we did intentionally to [00:33:00] benefit you and to benefit the planet.

There was 150% increase in satisfaction and intent to return to those who were told the story. I. Of the intentionality. And so, and when you think about it, the, we, we also got qualitative responses. And the qualitative responses really summed up to, wow, if you're taking the time and initiative, which by the way, we don't add time, just as you said, we're working along as a partner through your process, right along the timeline.

But if you are intentionally making decisions that are healthier for me and the planet, I equate that to better service. You're taking better care of me, and you care more about, you know, the, the, the service that you're providing me. So there's an equation there, which is, you know, really important, you know, to, to make that connection.

And I remember back, I mean, this is dating back, you know, 25 years. Um, I was a hotel manager at a property in San Francisco, and I cared about sustainability way back then. I think I was, I was recycling when I was like eight years old. And so, um, [00:34:00] but I cared about making, you know, some, some sustainable, efforts within our hotel. And I remember pitching my boss, the president, CEO, saying, here's what I wanna do. And it was the hang up your towel, don't change your sheets. And I mean, it was that, that was kind of the new thing that was happening in the day we did it. And it was, again, opt in, otherwise we're gonna do it.

You know, you tell us if, if you'd like to make this choice. But in the end, that was the first step of a, of a long series of, you know, sustainability initiatives that, that we have, um, seen in our industry over the years. But where we started was asking the guests to do it for us. And not only did they have to, you know, make the effort to hang up the towel and to put a little, you know, a card on the, on the bed to say, I, you know, you don't have to change my sheets today.

But the impression of that was, oh, you're asking me to, uh, give up services that I'm paying for. And the interpretation was, oh, you're just trying to save money. I really don't know how much this is about [00:35:00] taking care of the planet. You're just trying to save money. So now we get to the intentional design and procurement around, um, you know, more sustainable products, materials, eliminating chemicals of concern, et cetera.

And now we're able to say to the guest, you can feel good about your stay with us because we are doing this for you. We are, are. Making these choices so you can feel better, you know that we're taking care of you and the planet and we're not asking them to give anything up. Instead we're gifting them with something, uh, you know, that they can feel really good about, and we'll bring them back time and time

again.

Speaker 2: Hey, everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability, and I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor, Berman Fall Hospitality Group is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

Please check out their impact page in the show notes [00:36:00] for more info.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: So I wanna, okay, so imagine you as the front desk employee, um, in Annapolis or the man or the general manager or manager in, um, San Francisco. Imagine you were doing both of those jobs now and mind click is a thing, A project. a mind click rated project that

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Mm-hmm.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: working at, where is the challenge?

Because of all the people it takes to open that hotel from architecture, design, construction, project management, all the different vendors, all the different, everyone that goes into getting that up and running, and now you have this mind click hotel. How do you tell, because it's so much effort and time, and if you were to add up all the hours of everyone that touched everything that goes into that hotel, how do you get that story of all of that intention and all of those hours to where an impact was made?

How do you get that story down to you [00:37:00] as the manager or you as the front desk employee? How do you educate them so that they can tell that story and pay it forward?

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Absolutely. So we have a number of different ways. So we actually help in the marketing of that. So one thing we do, so we pull out all the impact, wins, all these great stories around, if it's, you know, your guest room that we've rated, your public area, your, you know, meeting room, you know, and meeting space, whatever it is that you know, that you've renovated and that we've, we've participated in, we pull through those stories.

So one of the things that we provide is, I mean, what we affectionately call the one pager, but it's a single sheet, it's soft sheet, it's a, you know, PDF, um, that can be attached to corporate travel buyer RFPs, meeting an event planner, RFP inquiries, um, and. So at first it can just be simply attached when you're asked what are you doing about sustainability?

You just attach this and say, here's what we're doing. We work with mind, click and here are, you know, the impacts that we've had, you know, in our recent renovation that you'll experience when you're here. That's one of the ways we can also create, again, [00:38:00] it's technology is another. Um, when you walk into your guest room, your TV is typically on and it's showing, you know, some experiences around, whether it's the brand or the property itself.

We can incorporate into that and provide, you know, the, the talking points, the storytelling to be able to communicate directly with the guest. We've also done, um, you know, inserts within the room or mirror clings, QR codes and things. Where I get you, it just says, learn about the sustainability initiatives within your guest room.

You pull up a QR code, it, you know, puts on a landing page and you see all the stories. So there are a number of ways that we create the communication. So at the front desk, you don't have to say all the things. 'cause I mean, I know as a front desk manager how many things you're communicating to a guest and

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: a

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: how much you

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: of

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: hear.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: behind and,

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Absolutely.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: but,

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: So, and then,

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: like, technology is cool, but people are cooler. Like if a person is telling me this, I see all those things, but how do you get the, the frontline employees to tell that story? Do you have

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: yeah.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: good [00:39:00] wins about, about that?

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah. So actually what I'll say is, um, first part of the training is not just in how do you share it with the guest, but it's also the HR side of this, of sharing it with associates to get them to understand the importance. One of the biggest issues that we have, you know, there are, there are a number of headwinds, you know, in our industry, but one of them is labor and being able to attract associates to our industry and then being able to retain them.

Um, you know, it's, it's been a challenge since Covid, but it's an, you know, it's an ongoing, uh, ongoing, um, effort, you know, in our hotel industry and. So being able to communicate the story that we've created, an interior that you'll be working in 40 hours a week and it's healthier for you, is another way to show that you truly care for your associates.

And, you know, I think it was Ritz Carlton that talked about, you know, when you take care of your people, they take care of your guests. So, you know, that's, that's the, the way it, you know, the it, the [00:40:00] trickle through is ensuring that you're communicating and caring about your associates so that they feel great about the hotel that they're working in, and that they communicate that to guests.

So it starts with educating and, uh, informing the associates so that they actually care about this. And then that translates into them sharing it. And, you know, it can be as simple as, welcome to our hotel, recently renovated with a, with sustainability in mind. I mean, it could be that simple. And a guest says, well, oh, what do you mean?

Well. They have the talking points and the sheets and things that they can share, and then they can say, there's even more information in your guest room about this. There's more information on our website. And then we also do social media posts and things like that. So we can put this together in a number of different marketing ways that really do help tell the story.

Um, but it's about weaving pieces of it in throughout the guest stay, because sometimes what the guest really needs to know is where are the elevators and what time do you serve breakfast? And you know, it's, it's, it's the simple perfunctory things, but [00:41:00] being able to weave the story in with that, you know, that understanding of the intentionality around, um, you know, the, the efforts, you know, and the renovation or having, you know, the new build of the property, um, you know, it, it resonates, you know, back to the storytelling.

It really resonates.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: so a lot of the talk that we've had now is on stakeholders. So it's the, the frontline employees, all the different manufacturers, the architects, the designers, the owners, the brands, um, well owners, probably also shareholders, but that's kind of why I wanted to shift over to shareholder because obviously this is a, financial instrument, a hotel, right?

It's a, it's an asset that generates cash flows and return of capital to shareholders and, uh, is important. Um, and return on investment is important. So. Since you've started consulting and now as a permanent position in as a EVP in, in My click. Have you seen, like we [00:42:00] got, I hear objections from some of the stakeholders, like manufacturers, oh, it's too expensive and all this, but I'm like, we've, it's more than paid for itself and,

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yes.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: it's like helped us evolve as a company and like there's a value that we would've paid anyway and I'd rather be part of this ecosystem, right? So there's objections to that on the stakeholder side. Um, but I feel comfortable that like it's paid for itself in spades and helped us evolve as a company, but on shareholders, there's also, it's a cost to the project.

and I've heard anecdotally that it lowers cost of capital just, and, and, and it also opens up new pools of equity investors as well because to certain equity investors investing, um, in projects that have a sustainability metric, even though it might be out of vogue in the government right now, there's this real retail need and desire to kind of quote police ourselves and make ourselves get better no matter what the government says. Um, by mandate. How are you seeing [00:43:00] an improvement or a return on investment for an ownership group in other shareholders by embracing the mind click platform?

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah. Um, it's a great question. It's a, it's a broad question, so I'll try to take it in pieces. So, um, you know, with the reduction in kind of governmental regulations, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Um, it's instead of, uh. Investors, developers, owners, being forced into, you know, a solution. It's about how do we reduce our risk?

How do we imp as you said, create opportunities for additional investment? How do we look at this from a business standpoint? And that's how my click has always looked at this. It's about how do we do something that moves our industry forward, that reduces risk, you know, for our assets. And looking at it that way, as opposed to, it's not a check the box, it's not a a, you know, adhering to regulation.

That's not the idea around the effort. Um, so [00:44:00] when it comes to, you know. Additional investment. There are global investors that absolutely care about this. They want to know what the, the, you know, investors, the property owners, what are you doing around sustainability? So when you have investors coming from the EU and other countries around the world there, they very much care about this.

So that's important to be able to go back and say, this is what we're actually doing. there is the opportunity also to get some green financing. There are ways to be able to access better terms, um, you know, around, uh, uh, your, your capital stack. And so being able to have a proof point to say, here's what we're doing around this is another value.

So those are both, you know, really important things, um, from the investor standpoint too. How you appraise and value a hotel is typically on the income valuation approach. So it's what are your revenues, your expenses, you know, then you take [00:45:00] out your fff and e reserve and you have a profitability and there's a cap rate that's applied to that.

So the ability to capture more gas because of this, and again, we've talked about, um, you know, people caring more about wellness. Um, women make more than 80% of the travel decisions. I just read an article about women over 50 and their impact on, uh, you know, uh, travel decisions and choices and how much.

Economic impact that they have. And then the millennials and Gen Z demographics also care about, you know, making choices, aligning with their values. So we have a big trend happening of people really caring about this. So the opportunity to capture demand, differentiate yourself from your competitor at this point is, is a key opportunity to say, look, we are doing this for you.

And then, you know, you wouldn't obviously say the hotel across the street isn't, but by, you know, as people are looking at their options, they would see, wow, this hotel is, is making [00:46:00] choices that are better for me. All else being equal, I'm gonna choose that hotel. So the ability to capture more occupancy drives, you know, your top line revenue, you know a certain percentage of that flows to your bottom line, and that results in an asset value, you know, improvement.

So there is a return on that investment when it comes to the cost of mind, click, you know, we're, we're a data cost. The you're not paying more for your products. The products are the price that they are, and some products that have higher sustainability ratings are the same price, more expensive, less expensive.

It all differs, but it's not what people sometimes think, which is, well, it's gonna cost me more to make sustainable decisions. That's, that's not, no the answer.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: it, it, to me, it's also like, uh, cost for us on an annualized basis is, you know, we, we just write it into our overhead and it's like. It's such a

drop in the bucket, but we've just seen such incredible outsized returns as a manufacturer. [00:47:00] Um, I think on the ownership side on that, the shareholder kind of objection side, I'd like to dig into that a little bit more because on one side I want to paint a spectrum, and I've talked about this before, but on one side you have like this hotel Marcel up in New Haven, right?

Where it's not a mine click platform. Um, but the owner was very passionate about sustainability. He used all this different, um, and systems and he bought it really well, and he created the first passive house hotel in the country or in North America, maybe even. Okay. And then you have on the other side of the spectrum. Just this, the regular hotel developer who's just like, oh, cost, cost, cost. I don't care. Turn and burn and like, just get this on. Let's repo, let's reposition and sell it. Okay. So there's a big

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Mm-hmm.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: What's interesting about the Bruces of the world over here who kind of did it on his own, um, he has this really [00:48:00] passionate view that, hotels spend more on CapEx than any other commercial real estate. I don't know, maybe like a oil refinery might spend more as a percentage. I don't, I don't know, but like he's going with his thesis. If that is the case, if a hotels spend more on CapEx than any other commercial real estate silo, he thinks within 10 years. If they all made an intentional change, it could, every hotel could be zero emissions, right?

And just be completely electric. Obviously the emissions are coming from somewhere on the power grid, but, but it could, a hotel could be zero emissions and then the people over here say, oh, that was a unicorn project. That's never gonna happen. It's a once in a lifetime thing. But I feel like everything, and for those of you who are listening, you can't see my hands.

I'm really talking with my hands right now. But like on this side, on this half of the spectrum, um, I think that there's room for incredible change. [00:49:00] And I think Mind Ccl, mind Click offers a really great platform to do that. Do you have a story about a developer who maybe hadn't considered mind Click and was like, oh, I could do this, and then like, what was a good uh, a win-win win story 'cause where everyone wins by adapting this platform.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah. Um, we have a lot, we've, we've worked with a lot of different, um, both custom projects and Brand, uh, evaluation brand, uh, selection, um, projects, as well as, uh, you know, the individual, more customized projects. And, you know, what's, what's really interesting is starting this on a, okay, well, you know, let's, let's see how this differentiates us.

Let's explore this. And then starting to realize how not only is there a sustainability. Uh, win. There's, you know, sustain sustainability information that you're able to, uh, to determine. But we're also an audit [00:50:00] platform, basically. I mean, we're auditing the process and the flow and able to say, okay, this, this selection actually doesn't quite adhere to the brand standard.

If again, it's there, you know, there's a brand standard related to it, and we can streamline some of the processes within. Prevent change orders going forward. So that's a, it's another just side benefit to being able to work with us is we're another set of eyes seeing this process and ensuring that, you know, you don't end up with, oh, we, we didn't factor that in.

We need to go back and do that. So there are a lot of other aspects beyond just the sustainability piece. And then back to this ability to market and, you know, the, the pro the project that I'd, I'd shared before that had this AB testing, you know, there was an interest, um, in, in doing this project, and this is actually years before I joined Mind Click.

So I can't give a personal, um, uh, interaction experience with this. But being able to test that and it's something, it was a Marriott product and, and uh, it was something we did with Marriott being able to. See this was a [00:51:00] big wow for, you know, the owners and, um, for Marriott to see, wow, this actually does make a difference.

Um, we're seeing this in the response from our guests and our customers to, you know, the efforts that we're doing. So I think that is an example of, of just seeing how these efforts are, you know, are, are resonating in different ways, in addition to being able to put it in a report to say that you did this, um, in addition to be able to use it for, um, for financing purposes as well as being able to really share this story.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: okay, so on a personal level, I became a lead accredit professional in probably 2008 or oh nine. Somewhere in there I could look at the certificate behind me, but I started hearing about mind click sometimes shortly after.

I don't remember exactly when. Um, and then I'd worked with a couple of companies that had gone through the process. None of the companies that I had owned ever went through it. Uh, then I merged with Berman, Falk probably [00:52:00] in 2019, and. I saw Paul McElroy from Highgate somewhere, and he had just taken on, I guess, a full-time position with Highgate.

And it was like, I, I have this really, um, awesome responsibility to be more sustainable in my practices. And he is like, Dan click's the best platform that I've seen thus far. Like, it's really important to me. Can you please like just get on board? And I share that story because that started our journey and we've seen such incredible results from that.

And not ju not just with Highgate, actually Highgate is probably only a small part of that. I would say the bigger impacts and results are just like internally as a company, um, being able to proudly share these initiatives internally, you know, within our culture. Um, and it just, it really aligns with our values.

It's a complete value alignment and it was almost like a missing piece in our, in our value puzzle. And it was a way that we could like. [00:53:00] I don't know, just in a binary way. I know you said it's not really binary 'cause there is, there are those nine KPIs. But in a binary way, we could show our team and all of our stakeholders that this is important to us and this is how we're going forward. Um, and I think what's missing, I feel like we're, we're close or we may have just gone over the hill, but there needs to be more advocates like Paul in that slash project management, um, management company sphere to say, okay, this is like this, these are the wins. And, and get more people on it.

The other thing is for other people who, other companies who kind of say, oh, it's a, it's a cost and blah, blah, blah. It's like a part of me thinks that. I don't know. It's, it's, uh, like maybe they're not, they don't, they don't have enough capital or something to, to kind of invest in this, and they're just kind of string stringing, stringing along.

Like, I've been in that place before where it was like, I, I couldn't take it on because [00:54:00] I was like running such a tight ship. Um, but I feel like it's almost like a It, it's like a barrier, but in a good way of like almost vetting people who can, like, who this is important to and how do you take them to the next step.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah, absolutely. And, and really it's a marketing cost for vendors who participate in our program. You know, we are able to put up here are the My Click vendors. So we, as we have projects that come in, we're able to share, this is the list of my click rated vendors, and you can choose from them or you can work with somebody who isn't my click rated and we invite them to join the platform so that we have all the same data that, you know, our, our, my click rated vendors are providing.

But it gives you the opportunity to potentially win a bid that you wouldn't otherwise because those who are are hiring us and bringing us into their project, as you said, they're the ones who care about this. Um, it matters to them. So the participation, um, in mind Click as a vendor is, is of importance and [00:55:00] not being a part of the, my Click platform is.

Is, you know, a competitive disadvantage for ones who aren't engaging and you know, the pricing that, you know, that mind click vendors pay as you said, you know, you, I think you shared it as a drop in the bucket.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah,

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: It's

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: rounding error.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: exactly. And, and, you know, you just think, how much do you pay when you go to these trade shows and you get a booth and you entertain?

I mean, I think actually it was, um, I was on a call this week and we were, uh, talking with, you know, again, you know, a, a partner and they said, um, I think we spend more just on a small group dinner than we actually then, you know, the cost of being rated by mind click.

And I said, that's, that's actually a great reference because it is a, you know, an investment in marketing. It's an investment in, as you said, showing what your values are. Putting, you know, the, the fact that that sustainability and continuous improvement, just being better, improving a little bit, uh.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: I, I would say from a market, like when I hear marketing, I hear, like, [00:56:00] to me it's more outward facing. And yes, we do have the mind click badges on our, our website, maybe on some of our email signatures. But for us, the, the marketing and I, to call it marketing for internal purposes, I think would be insincere.

But it's just, it was a, uh, a proof of concept or a way to verify that this kind of. ties all of our values together internally for how we operate as a team, what we believe in, how we attract people and recruit people. Um,

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: I love that.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: me that.

the dividends internally were so much more impactful than externally even.

I mean, it really helped, uh, gel up and, and kind of solidify this great culture that we, we have already built.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: I love hearing that and, and I wanna circle back on something, you know, um, for those who are listening and not watching, I'm, I'm gonna start using my hands too, but you were talking about this continuum, you know, the people who are really committed to being more [00:57:00] sustainable, like Hotel Marcel and then others who just say, you know, we're, we're, we don't see the need yet.

You know, we're, we're just not there. So the way I've kind of looked at this is, um, I look at this, you know, uh, uh, over a period of time and where I see this as big picture is those who care about it are stepping into this, saying, this is. A way for us to align with our values. We know this is important, but we can also differentiate ourselves from other properties, from other brands.

And now I'm thinking of this from a hotel, you know, ownership investment standpoint. But we could factor in, again, our vendor partners as well. We're gonna differentiate ourselves from others. So I think that is the ability to capture more business because of that differentiation. Then as you move through it, then there's a fomo.

Then there's, wait a minute, my competitor's doing this and I'm not doing this. And they're winning business through this. And, and you know, again, whether it's a hotel, whether it's a brand, whether it's a vendor saying, okay, now I need to get on board [00:58:00] because I wanna be showing up in the same places and being considered for the same, uh, projects or capturing business for a hotel as my competitors. And then I think as we keep moving, we end up in a tipping point. And the idea overall is it is having our hotel industry coming together to make better, more responsible, you know, and more sustainable, whether you call it sustainable, responsible, it's all one and the same, making more responsible decisions.

And as more people, you know, in, in every aspect, brands, uh, uh, properties, you know, individual property projects, um, as well as vendors, as more people are engaging with mind click and really measuring this, we start to show that our industry, which is, is, you know, represents huge, huge dollars in renovations and, you know, supply chain purchasing that we're starting to really move the needle. Um, all of of my click really started when the late [00:59:00] Arne Sorenson said, we need to green the global supply chain. And his awareness of this was how much money our industry spends. It can't be ignored. We have the ability to make real change.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: I just, I just got goosebumps as you mentioned, Arne, um, and what he said about greening the global supply chain. Because I will also say, going back to that metaphor that I overuse the movie, the power of one Great book, great movie, um, a waterfall starts with one drop of water. So if, if wa if mine click, let's just say, is that wa, is that that drop of water? We have factories in Asia. There's one factory in particular that is going to be in the next couple of years building a new factory. Right? Uh, I don't know if they're expanding might be going through where their current factory is, or they're expanding. I don't know exactly, but they were presenting it to us and showing that they are going to do rooftop solar [01:00:00] on this new factory.

It didn't make sense to retrofit the other one. And I'm not saying that mind click and our decision to join mind click and the questionnaire that we went through with our factory. Was the reason why they decided to do that. I'm sure there's a lot of other reasons, but being one of those drops of water that we showed will help them win more business in, in North America or in the United States.

I mean, that's incredible and it's because like all of these conversations and decision points happen on a global perspective, and yeah, we might just have been one piece of straw on that camel's back of the factory, but it's in their

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Mm-hmm.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Part of their plan. And I don't think it would've been done if, if we're not all having these small conversations together.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Absolutely. Well, I think, um, you, you just made me think of, I think it's a Gloria Steinem quote that says, every movement started with a conversation in the living room.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Yes.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: And yeah. And so it's like, you know, just being able to do this, to be able to be a leader, to set yourself apart, [01:01:00] saying, I believe in this, this is important and, you know, have other people join this movement.

Uh, you know, it's just to me, it, you know, I, um, I'm out, I'm gonna steal another, uh, reference that Joanna, CEO of mind click, um, says she's a capitalist tree hugger. And I love that term because I

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: so that

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah,

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Great.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: But, you know, I'm like, we can be. Business people, you know, we can be successful business people and we can, you know, we can achieve growth and achieve success and profitability and return on investment while also making decisions that are considerate, careful, respectful, uh, responsible.

You know, there is a way to do both, but you're right, it's back to the intentionality of doing it. It's about aligning that value. And in the decisions that you're making, you're saying, how can I do this better? What additional information do I need to have to be able to make a better decision? Um, because in some cases people may be making good decisions, they just don't know they're making good [01:02:00] decisions.

If they don't have the data and the information behind it to say, wow, here's our baseline, here's how we measured. I mean, in, in some cases we do something called a lookback report. And in some cases we've had, um, groups who have, uh, done a renovation project that they had sustainability as an intention.

And when we have rated the project. Looking back, it wasn't as sustainable and the rating wasn't as high as they expected. So they sort of went, oh, wow. And then we can share, here's what we would've suggested you do differently along the way and you could have significantly increased your rating. And again, these ratings are internal.

They're for internal use. It's the stories that, you know, are really put out, um, in, in promotion and, and, uh, you know, guest, customer facing. Um, but being able to look internally to have that benchmark. And then there are other situations where, you know, maybe sustainability was a thought, but it wasn't, you know, the driving force.

And they find that, wow, we actually did better than we thought because [01:03:00] we chose vendors who, they happen to be mind click rated and we didn't even know that. And look at the great things they're doing, just like you're doing at Berman F and you know, and they're able to then share the wins that they had in their project.

Um, but, you know, measuring its important. You can't improve something, you can't measure.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah, I, I'm a big believer in that, and I think going back to that Gloria Steinem quote of every movement starts with a conversation in the living room. There are times where kicks off and it's going, like all the players are there, we're pregnant. And then it's like, oh, let's, let's see if we can make this more sustainable after the ship has left the dock. It's so disruptive. Yes, it's possible. Um, but it's like. To go back and, and kind of reinvent the wheel after it's happened. Like that liver, that living room conversation needs to happen with intention at the beginning of the project.

And it's not a huge boulder to lift. It's, it's, okay, let's do [01:04:00] this. Let's be mindful about this and let's proceed everyone, everyone on the same page. And it makes a world of

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Yes. Well, and you're right. I mean, it really does go back to the values. I mean, we have longstanding relationships with, as you mentioned, Highgate and, uh, Hyatt owned and managed properties. And we've been doing, you know, more and more, uh, projects with, with new, um, you know, owner partners as well. Um, and what we found is that there's just an expectation and an understanding that, you know, with high and owned and managed properties and Highgate, we're, we're incorporating this into our process, and it's just part of our, our values and we're, you know, we're going to, um, walk our talk.

And so we see that that just becomes, you know. A baseline understanding. So you're absolutely right. Having these conversations early and saying this is important to us, and just having it become part of the conversation and part of the process. Um, you know, I think, uh, there's a, a kind of an interesting reference when we think way back to when the internet first, you [01:05:00] know, came on board.

Everybody had, you know, a chief internet officer and okay, we've got, you know, some person in office, figure out what this internet thing is. Okay. Now, yes, we have a chief technology officer, but different, it's internet is part of everything we do. I mean, you know, being connected online is something that's embedded in, in every one of our day-to-day and, you know, overarching initiatives.

And so we believe that's the, the. Future of sustainability, instead of having to separate out sustainability as a separate item, then it's more about, um, you know, being able to incorporate sustainability into your discussions of, of, you know, because it's part of your values. So instead of using it, um, as a tool, it becomes who you are. And that's ultimately the goal. And that's, that's, you know, everything that I know about you and about Berman, Falk, and everything you've shared here today, you are living that. It is, it is already part of your ethos.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah. And I, I think [01:06:00] part of that sustainability, like it's a role that we're creating where it's, um, a VP leader level position of customer experience because we see that that is most important in our customer's eyes, or not all of them, but many of them. And it's oftentimes they just don't know how to take that first bite or first step. Um, with that in mind. As you look forward, what's the most exciting thing that you're seeing out there in your, in your new role?

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Oh goodness. So many things. Um, but just, you know, the, the excitement and interest around the fact that, that this cons, that this exists. I mean, that's, that's one of the things that I hear is, wow, you're able to do that. I, I didn't realize this platform existed. How, you know, how have you been around? We didn't know about you.

And, um, so it's exciting that there is a response like this, that, that. We, we can achieve this. So, um, marrying the, there is a values alignment, you know, with people who [01:07:00] want to incorporate, you know, a greater commitment to sustainability into their projects and their brand standards and, and, you know, you as a vendor into, you know, your whole production.

Um, and then just jet, you know, increasing the awareness that this is what we do and we're here to work with you as a partner. I think that's what's really exciting is just to really, um, you know, expand those who we work with and, you know, be able to have even a greater impact. I, I see a lot of excitement for the future and, um, and again, we thank you so much for being a part of this.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Awesome. Well, I'm proud to be a part of it. I'm, I'm happy to be such a incredibly raving fan. and it's been a real unlock for me personally and also corporately for Berman Falk. It's just been amazing to be on this journey. Um, if people wanted to learn more about you or connect with you or learn about Mind, click, what's the best way for them to do that?

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Absolutely. Uh, feel free to email me at any point in time. Connect with me on LinkedIn. Um, I make sure to check it frequently. So, uh, [01:08:00] happy to, to receive any inquiries or, or chat with anyone who's interested in, uh, in exploring anything we've talked about today.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: Yeah. If you want to be collected by Andrea, reach out. Right. Or Me Too. Reach out. We are

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: I,

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: of people. Oh my God, that's so

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: I know it is, that's why I have to always say, it's just, it's such a weird thing to say, but I'm like, I don't know. You know, it's like my own little personal club. I, I don't, I don't know how.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: it's like a chess board, right? It's like it's pretty awesome. Um, yeah, it's a great strategy, and weird. But anyway, um, I wanna just say thank you so much. I know I've been looking forward to this conversation for so long, and I know with like the NYU Lodging conference coming up and a bunch of other industry events over the summer, it's like very timely, um, to get the, to continue to get the word out there and, and advocate for all that you, and all the entire mind click team does.

So thank you.

andrea-foster_1_05-16-2025_095058: Dan, thank you so much. I've always also been looking forward to this and just really appreciate you and your time and everything you're doing. [01:09:00] Uh, both within, you know, your company, companies plural, and with defining hospitality. It's really exciting that, you know, you're bringing people's voices to the forefront and, and sharing all of our experiences and perspectives.

So thank you.

dan-ryan_64_05-16-2025_095058: well, you're very most welcome and I wouldn't be able to do that without all of the listeners. I know we've just passed 200 shows, which is like crazy to me to think about, just means I'm getting older and fatter and grayer. But that's okay. Um, as long as I can share my experience with everyone. Um, if you think, if this has changed your, i your ideas of sustainability or developing for hospitality, or you think you know someone who might benefit from this conversation, please pass it along.

Like most of our growth, our incredible growth has come from just word of mouth and people forwarding episodes to other people. So please, uh, like, subscribe, leave comments. It all is that conversation in the living room to help start movement. So thank you all very much.

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