Defining Hospitality

DH - Bruno Viterbo
===

Speaker: [00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.

This podcast is sponsored by Berman Fall Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Today's guest is skilled in design and real estate with over 25 years of industry experience working for companies like Champalimaud Design and Las Vegas Sands Corp. Previously, he co-founded Viterbo Imagination, a boutique design firm based in Portugal, which he ran for 10 years. He was part of Champalimaud team when they won a string of awards, including 2000 nine's gold key winner of Designer of the [00:01:00] year.

All of these gave him extensive experience working in Europe and Asia, and he has a very global perspective, both in design and hospitality. He is currently the Vice President of Design at the Irvine Company based in Newport Beach. Ladies and gentlemen, Bruno Viterbo. Welcome, Bruno.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Hi, Dan.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: It's,

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: to.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: I'm so pleased to be here and I think this conversation is a real testament to it's how, how important it is to be out there, be at industry events and be open to saying, Hey, how are you?

It's been a while. Let's talk. Or in our case, let's have breakfast. It was an impromptu breakfast walking into, um, the, the, the show floor at HD Vegas. And, uh, it was so good to catch up because we've known each other for probably the better part of a decade or more. And to be able to catch up and hear how we're doing on like a human level, not even in the work [00:02:00] world, uh, I just tremendously enjoyed and it's just always nice when you're walking somewhere to look to your left, look to your right, see who's there.

And take a pause and say, Hey, what's up? Let's catch up.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right. Well, and you know, and I, and I owe it to you because I was probably very focused on getting to the show and doing what I was, uh, doing there. But it was wonderful to have that time with you and, and to, to catch up and, you know, and I, and I do want to thank you for bringing me on the podcast. I've, I've, uh, listened to your conversations probably since you started.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Wow.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: always found him to be very insightful and passionate, and conversation is something that doesn't always happen as, as much these days as we used to. And it's great just to be on this side of the, of the conversation this time. It's a, it's a privilege to be here, so thank you.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: I appreciate it very much and what I will say is this, you'll find is a very. Interesting way to communicate, right? Because you and I are gonna talk here and [00:03:00] share our conversation with, with the listeners and watchers, but it's very unusual to have like an hour long conversation and not be interrupted by people saying, Hey, sparkling or still, what, what appetizer would you like?

So I love it. It's a real, um, I don't know, it's just a real deep dive and a, a very unusual way of being present and focused on the person that's sitting in front of you. So I also thank you for the opportunity and thank you for listening.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Well, I hope everyone enjoys it,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Yeah, I'm sure they will. Um, so part like, I guess we, obviously, we talk about hospitality here, um, but it comes in all different shapes and sizes and experiences and I, I would say that even just walking alongside someone looking to your right and pausing and, and saying, oh, and making space.

For me in that moment as we were walking, is a form of hospitality, um, and [00:04:00] connection. I think really importantly, um, and I think what's so wonderful about all these conversations is just understanding the spectrum of what all of the answers and how, how, what hospitality means to everyone that I speak with.

So let's start with that with you, Bruno. Like what does hospitality mean to you?

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Uh, y you know, I think those, all those things are, are important. I, I probably come at it from the point of view of design and development, which has been my, sort of my, the focus of my career. Um, and you know, not surprisingly, for me, it also starts with people. It also starts with that connection. I think that that hospitality is related to a certain feeling of effortlessness. Um, I think what we all appreciate in our homes is that it's been over the years, sort of molded to our tastes and our needs, and we know where things are. There's a certain comfort to that. when we go somewhere. And that [00:05:00] comfort is there too, because we are, uh, we are taken care of. Uh, things come to us without us having to worry too much about them. we can really start enjoying the fact of having that time for ourselves with our family, with our friends. And, and it's that, you know, I, I, I usually refer to it as the, the sense of being known, um, when we start there and then we also get the design right. Then we really have all the ingredients to have a great, uh, destination, a great sense of place. And, and, and, you know, and that for me, that, that's hospitality. That's, I guess that's just the beginning of what I think. Uh, and we can further get into it over the course of this conversation.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Well, I love the idea of feeling known because also just going back to our personal interpersonal encounter, both on our own missions, but taking that moment and looking to my right, your left, and feeling known and pausing with that and feeling that and having it be [00:06:00] just a moment that was like, okay, well let's open this up and see like how we can pause and kind of lean into that.

Um, one of the things on this idea of feeling known, having started in Europe, your career, obviously you're from Portugal, uh, and then coming to the US and then spending so much time and um, building out, um, so much in Asia and working on so many really amazing Asian projects. Um, how does that idea of feeling known transcend Europe, north America, Asia?

And I'm sure you've worked in.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Africa and South America as well. So probably every continent I would venture a guess, except potentially Antarctica.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: I, I don't know as much about Africa or I, I do know South America, but, um, you know, I think the idea of understanding culture has always been really important for me. Uh, regardless of whatever my career is, I was, uh, lucky [00:07:00] enough to, to, to grow up in an environment where there were and scientists and, and people with very different perspectives of life. Um, my parents were always, um, always made a great effort to, to travel as a family and to take me and my sisters to places that they thought were important for us to see at least once in our lifetime, where we can have some connection to history where we could have some connection with. The way people think in different places. And you know, and that was my, my mother is a, a, an interior designer too. And, and you know, our vacations was, were always a little bit of culture and let's go see the newest hotel in the newest restaurant because there's something to learn there. So I, I, I, I sort of very naturally, I guess without even making the effort, um, I was exposed to, um, a lot of different places and I always had a lot of interest in, in getting to know them better, not just on the surface [00:08:00] what it looks like, but really getting deep into an understanding of, of, of how people behave in different places and what matters to them and what, what appeals to them. And so that has always, I've carried that naturally. And I guess when I sort of brought that into my work as a designer, it sort of very naturally became the foundation of, of what I do. I, I, I, I try to look deep through what it is that, that is, that matters to that particular, uh, project and the people that it's going to influence. And so I just, I guess naturally I, I bring that into it. I, I try not to over intellectualize it too much, but I do think it's an important part of it.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: I love how you package that in. Your curiosity, and you've always kind of wanted to dig deeper and learn about the cultures and the places and the buildings and the physical spaces that you've been working. But, you know, looking at your, your CV and seeing [00:09:00] all the places that you've worked and the amazing kind of mentors you've had along your path from Alexandra, who's just a legend champ, Palomo, um, the Adelson, Sheldon Adelson and his whole team and Wing Chow and like, and now at the Irvine Company, you've had some incredible leaders within our industry and just real estate development in, in general.

Um, did you come pre-programmed, it sounds like you came pre-programmed with that curiosity, um, but how along your career path have working with some of these legends, I mean, all legends, um. How did that help you refine that and, and regain your focus and sharpen your tools, um, so that you can stay on this path and continue to grow and thrive?

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Uh, that's a great question. You know, I, I, I think I've been lucky to have those people being in, in my journey. Um, I don't think I deliberately looked for them, but once I had the [00:10:00] opportunity to have, you know, someone like Alexandra or, or, uh, at sans even more than, than than Cha and Adelson, uh, it was my, my, uh, relationship with Wing Chow, who was, uh, the, the, the head of design at the time, um, and a, and a, an important influence in the company. Um, I, I think I've, I've my skills to, to listen to them because sometimes those people come. In our way. They show up in people's lives. And if you're not open to listening to what you can learn from them and to try to understand their, their very broad view of the world and what we can do for other people if we have that understanding, I, I guess it started to answer your question with just listening, which

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: making sure that I appreciated, um, everything that I could learn from them and everything that I knew, everything I needed to know. I think in my life, in my career, what has changed over time is that I, I I, I started by thinking that we needed to do a [00:11:00] lot, and over time I realized I, I just need to listen a lot more. And then the doing sort of comes with it. But, you know, they all with them, I, I, I, I learned very different things with everyone. Um, Alexandra has a, is a force of nature and, uh, someone who has an ability to, to see, uh, around the curve, um, you know, and, and, and to, to focus the people that work with her on the most important things that need to be taken care of. And so that sense of urgency of priority allows that, um, the divergence that we all go through in our creative process to become the convergence into executing the project.

So, you know, that is something that to this day, I think that firm still has in spades, is that ability to execute with such excellence. Um, and so, you know, that, that obviously elevated my, my perception of [00:12:00] what was important. then when I, uh, worked, uh, closely with, with Wing Chow, um. With him, it was really about how, how to expand that view.

You know, he, he, he brought, uh, the, the sort of the Disney Imagineering point of view to work every day and challenge the team. Every single time we're trying to look at things from the point of view of who is experiencing it and, and, and to develop that sort of immersive, um, um, notion of what design can do for people.

Sometimes, you know, we can, we can be cynical about it and, you know, there's a lot about the Disney view, which we know tends to be about the stage setting, and sometimes just, you know, creating things that aren't quite there. Uh, I guess the physical design that I always cared about, the integrity of good architecture and good design sometimes is in conflict with that idea, but, but being challenged to look at everything, whether it's a [00:13:00] hotel, a restaurant. Uh, you know, any, any destination that, where we want people to feel good and spend money, um, it, it, it's so important to have that combination of both, to never forget that whatever they look at, whatever they do, sort of needs to be choreographed. And, and that was a really, really key learning that I got from working with him.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: okay. I wanna, I wanna talk about two of the, those two individually. I've met Wing a couple of times over the past 20 years, and I've met and talked to and been around Alexandra more than he, but not a ton of times. But one thing I can say about Alexandra, um. I'm curious to get your perspective, 'cause you work more closely with her.

There's certain people in this world that you, that I encounter that if you're in a crowded place, it could even be a ballroom, it could be an office, it could be a restaurant. There's a certain [00:14:00] type of person when they walk into a room, the entire energy of the room changes and like, like kind of lights up the room.

And attention, not intentional, attention just shifts towards them. And Alexandra is one of those few magical unicorn of people that I've experienced that with. What do you think it is? Like, I just find, I'm just, I, I should probably talk to her about it, but like it's just, I find it so fascinating.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Well, you know, I, I don't wanna presume to know, um, you know what it is, I, I can, I can, I can describe what I have observed and, and, and what I always found so fascinating is, you know, Alexandra and Wing to a certain way, have an incredible ability to focus on the moment,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Mm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Be present, and to pay attention to what people are doing and saying, then correlate to that, to that [00:15:00] they've already formed through their experience. And their lived experience about the world, and, and by establishing those parallels continuously in their mind, they're sort of creating a reality around that particular moment they're living in. And we all get sucked into it because it's, it's, it's different from what most people do. It's, it's, um, you know, in the end, I do think it goes back to conversation

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Mm

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: have a great ability to stay focused on a conversation until it actually gets somewhere.

Not just, you know, we're, we're saying things because we have to say things

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: mm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: and, and that's demanding too of people. I think we all feel challenged when we are we, when we are in the presence of people who, who, um, need to have that, that, that back and forth, that dialogue.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm. It seems, I mean, I, I'll go out on it also seems like that's design in a way, right? Because design, okay. Yeah. It's creating things, but it's really about solving problems

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: [00:16:00] Right.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Finding solutions to things. And there's a lot of iteration that needs to take place to do that. And that's, I wish in school they would teach design as like a problem solving thing because it, it's so all encompassing as far as every course of study and knowledge and philosophy.

But it, it, I think what you said, what that really resonated me with me about a Alexandra is that she will be there and be so incredibly present while tr, while kind of reshaping. What the solution would be in a conversation, in a design challenge in just entering a room or taking in a place for all that it has.

Um, and I think, I don't know, I just, I'm, I'm always just so mystified by people that have that ability to, to command that presence and to be present.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Well, a lot of it I do think comes from conviction.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: know, I, I do think that in design. We are dealing with, [00:17:00] with, uh, opinions and taste. Um, and it's not always easy to have those conversations, right? We, you know, we, we deal with a multiplicity of stakeholders. It's the, the owner, it's the, the, the, the, the project manager.

It's the person who pays for the project. And, you know, and everyone has an opinion. Everyone has traveled, everyone has seen something. Everyone comes at a project from a, a point of view that is very personal and, and informed by very unique experiences. And the designer or the person responsible for the creative process has to those thread together and make sense of them.

Otherwise, we just end up with parallel conversations going on. And when they're able to do that with a conviction that they really believe in, in, in their viewpoint. It's incredibly powerful because then you are, you know, you're sort of getting people to all row in the same direction, to sort of, you know, at the same [00:18:00] rhythm.

To use that sort of analogy, I, I think in matters of taste, comes at it with, with a bit of insecurity and being able to just remove that, uh, insecurity and make people feel, believe that what they're being shown and what they're being told makes perfect sense. It, it's, it's, it's fascinating because it sort of gets people, you know, on board with it and then everything seems much easier. So I think that that's part of what it is too.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: uh, as you're talking, I'm in, I love thinking about things in spectrums because, you know, on one end you have Champ Paul Motor, Alexandra, like working on the, like super luxury, really kind of really drilling down, focusing on, in on that detail. Not to say that at Sans where the scale is so much bigger, I guess wing, like Wing Chow coming from Disney, just these crazy, incredible mega [00:19:00] projects that the scale is so big, um, and you think about.

From that smaller attention to detail to this large, incredible, great scale. Um, it seems to me as you look at that path for you going, now being at the irv at the Irvine Company, where I think in, you mentioned in one way it was like the Irvine Company thinks about things on a city scale, right? It's like this much bigger than just a hotel or a, um, or a multi-family unit or a retail or commercial, but like a master plan, much bigger development and neighborhoods.

Yeah. So how do you, like if you were to walk through your experience from work coming to the United States and working with Alexander right from the beginning and focusing on that luxury and then Evol, uh, and then evolving into the, your SANS experience with Wing, and now where you are at Irvine, it seems like a very logical.

Progression on [00:20:00] that, on that spectrum, right? Am I, am I going out on a limb here?

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: You know, it's actually great to look back and see that there was a progression. I don't think, you know, we, we always plan life that way. Um, I do think that that idea of scale is an important one because it did. I did think about that early on in my life. Uh, you know, I I, I, I've had a great, uh, experience, um, when I started my company in Portugal and I did it with my wife.

We were co-founders. We worked together. We tried really hard at, you know, with that sort of startup mentality to get started, but it, it started with the two of us

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Shout out to Jennifer.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Shout out to her. She does. She deserves it. and, and you know, we, we, we eventually grew and we saw the team, you know, becoming a, a, you know, you start worrying about other things.

It's not just the projects, it's the culture. And, you know, how do you keep that sense of excellence, uh, while you're trying to bring in people into your organization that are, um, you know, [00:21:00] haven't always had the same views as you do, but you kind of need to create that identity, you know, that sense of unity. And so I was, from the beginning, I was really interested in, in how does, how do things scale up? How do you scale up and still care as much as you do about the things that really matter? And don't forget to think about people and don't forget to think about the craftsmanship. Uh, and, and so I, I do think there's a side of me. That was always looking for that scale. And, and that's why when, um, when Alexandra approached me, um, and, and offered me that great opportunity to come and work with her and, you know, and, and I, and I made the decision to close down my business, bring my family to New York, to the US where I, I had never done any work.

I did not have any single contact. I had some friends, but that was pretty much it. I, I

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Yeah.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: had been once to NeoCon and once to HD because [00:22:00] I thought it was so interesting that these big events existed that, that the sense of scale was really important for me. And, and I think that what I brought was, you know, an ability to, to to know the, the importance of certain elements of design.

Because in Europe what is different for interior designers is that, um. Uh, the scope of work that is generally expected, expected of an interior designer is a little broader. Um, you know, clients do hand off projects to interior designers where they expect them to essentially do everything. You know, we, isn't the same, of bringing in art consultants and lighting designers and procurement agents is kind of, when you hire the interior designer, you expect them to sort of be a project manager of sorts and be on site and oversee construction. And so that had given me a really broad, uh, understanding of what the role of the interior designer is. But it was for projects that tended to be on a smaller scale. [00:23:00] And, and, and when I started working on the larger project, some of them were, you know, sort of very boutique oriented and there was a lot there that I understood, but every time there was a project that was bigger that required, you know, a bigger team that required a better understanding of what. The owner and the client expected of us. That was really when, when I lit up, you know, those were the moments when I felt, okay, I'm learning something new here. How do I, how do I use my skillset at a much larger scale and, and still do great job a, a great job and still bring people along and still deliver, um, culture, the strong culture that I think is so key to the success of any, of any design firm and any company. And so, because I was looking for those moments, I think I always took them as a step to grow.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: so that never stopped. Right? And then maybe that's, that's what put me on the path to every, every time it was a little bigger. the [00:24:00] interesting thing about it is that even though the scale of what I was doing always grew, I always had this attachment to be in places where sort of the founder or the owner's name was on the door.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Mm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: And so when you, you know, when they really care, Alexandra really cared. Sheldon really cared. And at the Irvine Company, Donald Bren, uh, really cares even though these companies are behemoths and, and because they really care, everyone around them also cares. And, and I think that that's what makes this sort of growing and still being so focused on the small details make it so interesting,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: I like that idea of really cares as, as it relates to scale. Right? So, but as these companies get bigger and bigger and bigger along your career path, um, as a founder, it's hard to care about everything. You, you could, you, you obviously have to, and a lot of that, I would think [00:25:00] that it's, it's kind of building the right team of all these other people that are, you have a value alignment with.

Um, but as it relates to design, I think, I think, and I'm just selfish and I'm biased here, that those owner, founders really care about design because that's the nuance and. The secret sauce and like that, I don't know, the, the, the chemistry that kind of, from a branding a lived in a walkie, that's the thing that like ties everything together.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: design is one way that an

owner founder, because that's what other people are walking through, can really connect with their market, their customers, um, their stakeholders. Am I I said that very clumsily and in elegantly. Can you restate that? 'cause I, I, or let me know if I'm on the right path. And how would you refine that?

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: No, I, I think, I think a lot of what you said makes a lot of [00:26:00] sense. Um, you know, the way I would describe it is, um, I, I think people that really care tend to be incredibly thoughtful, um, and reflected. sometimes, um, you know, we, we can't set aside the importance of intuition. you know, some people just have intuition and others don't.

I, I, I actually tend to think that that's, you know, what the, the people that we sometimes call, you know, geniuses and we have, you know, in our society that really excel, um, you know, that we know that they're always very committed to their, to, to their craft, their art, their business. But they have incredible intuition too.

They can just see, uh, where things are going and are able, you know, in the absence of all the information. When they're faced with the ambiguity, and in the case of interior design and design in general with, you know, a lot of different ideas and, and, and great thoughts that come along, they're just able to say, no, this is a better one. I I think that's, that's, that's what we [00:27:00] should be doing. And, and I go back to, to the, you know, the, the sense of conviction that I mentioned earlier. That is such a powerful force. You know, it's like a person with conviction in a room. It's like gravity. It just pulls everything there and it, it, it, it stabilizes. And it doesn't mean that that can change and evolve, it just creates this powerful force of, of, of keeping people also focused on what they should be doing. It removes the uncertainties. It just makes people feel better about what they're doing and, and then they move forward. And, and I think that that's a lot of what makes that. Um, you know, that sort of presence that we get from certain individuals. So, so key to feeling that emotion that you just described.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: I, I, I love it. And because what you're making me think of is like in the world of. Let's just say star architects, right? So you have these larger than life architects. They could have a cape on, envision them however you want. [00:28:00] Um, they, I, many of them i i, I would refer to as uncompromising visionaries, right?

They have a vision, they're going, but it's like they leave a lot in their wake, right? It could be like a Napoleonic or Julius Caesar kind of thing, right?

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Yes. Right.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: And that idea. So that's an uncompromising visionary. But what I lo what I really appreciate about what you said there is that idea of conviction. You don't have to be a bulldozer and get to the same end result by leaving a, a wake of destruction in your path, right?

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: And I, and I thi I think that's where, that's kind of that idea of conviction and having that presence and being there and absorbing it with Alexandra and my limited experience of Wing, and I would assume, um. With, I don't, I don't even know him, but I can't call him. I feel bad calling him Donald, but maybe Mr.

Bren. Um, I feel like that [00:29:00] there, there, maybe that is the idea of conviction and they have vision, but it's not at the expense of everything else. Right.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: No. Correct. And you know, and for me it even starts earlier. Um, you know, my mother was a big influence because, you know, she, she, addition to being a, a, a great designer and a, and a great artist, she, she also had the, the, the, um, she made the effort of creating a professional services design firm in, in Portugal at a time where that doesn't really exist.

It didn't exist as a, as a profession. It was, you know, some people were giving advice to others, but the idea of setting up an actual business and, and no, so, so I, I grew up with seeing someone trying to. a business, uh, where the business itself was helping others, uh, um, find that, that great place to be, whether it was a home or a restaurant or a hotel. And, and you know, I do think that there is a tremendous effort that is [00:30:00] always a part of getting to what we could call the right answer, right? You know, outta many, the one that feels the best. And so I, I do think that all those people have a great, um, resilience to, um, you know, not deviate from what they think is the right direction and then to bring people along.

So it's really both, it's, you know, they, they do need to. on their own. Um, the kind of people that do not stop trying to get to, to a certain place, but also that, you know, even if they might create frustration around them, but we're all looking at times for that sense of conviction, right? When, you know, we have all these places we can go to, all these ideas we can develop, then you have someone who can say, no, no, no, I forget about all of those.

You need to focus on this. And sometimes it does take us a while to get there, but when we do, there's a, a sense of tranquility, right? We're okay, we've, [00:31:00] we've, we've overcome that step all of a sudden. I think that what I've always observed when I see, uh, you know, people that are capable of doing that is that all of a sudden all the things that I thought were equivalent ideas, they're not. there's one that's actually better.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Right.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: And then you look back and you say, why did I think that those were also options for us to study? And, and it might be that if we had took those, I, if we had taken those ideas forward, they would still have been great to pursue, but there's one that makes more sense.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: would it be safe to say that in the case of Wing and also Alexandra having that conviction and knowing and the vision, but also allowing you the space to kind of come around to it rather than that like starchitect type

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: where it's like everything is left in, in a trail of dust to get there?

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right. Right.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Is is it, is it that they can, they're really good at allowing [00:32:00] you with not just on your own, but also by coaching you or mentoring you or however it is to help you get to that decision. And they might not even know what that final vision is. They have a, or they, they do have an idea, but it's somehow they help you who's actually doing the work, get there and in a, in a more binary way.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right. It's a, you know, in, in a way it's kind of, you become an interpreter, right? I, I do think that every successful design business or, you know, organization where design is a strategic part of the business, I think they always need visionaries who are uncompromising, who everyone a little further than they would go just on their own. But you also need the people who kind of help interpret and communicate that to the rest of the team. And, and I'm a big believer that. In order to get things done, you need to have a spectrum to use your word of, of, of, of [00:33:00] people with different capabilities and different levels of experience, because we're continuously bringing the design world along with us, right?

And there's young people coming in and, you know, they need to be exposed. They bring in skills that we no longer have, right? I'm seeing all these young people coming into design offices and man, they just use these tools in ways that, um, feel fantastic in terms of, I, I just wish I had had them when I was their age, but they're also thinking to use them in ways that are different from the ways I would.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Mm

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: you know, and, and I do think you need someone that allows the, the transfer of information between the uncompromising. and then the people that get the work done. And somehow in my career, I have always found myself in that sort of anchor position. And maybe it is because that's my skillset and that's what I've sort of developed over the years. But I'm, I'm, um, [00:34:00] able to flex quickly between being open to the vision of the person who is leading us a little further

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: mm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: and then focusing on what I need to organize and do and, and prepare for everyone else that is coming along that is also rowing

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Yeah.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: To do their work and understand why it is that we need to do what we're being asked to do,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm,

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: sometimes why are we shifting course correcting and shifting direction halfway through? and, and, and every organization needs to have that kind of. to, and, and I think that that's where I found myself is sort of, you know, having the benefit of being trusted by these great people who have pushed me forward, also being trusted by the people who actually get the work done, that I'm giving them the direction, the structure, the order that they need to, to pursue their work.

Speaker 2: Hey, everybody. [00:35:00] We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability, and I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor, Berman Fall Hospitality Group is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more info.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm. One of the, um, most pivotal business, I call them business porn books, but like one of the most pivotal business porn books I've ever read. Um. Is called E, um, traction or EOS, the entrepreneurial operating system. And in that book, they describe, and it's in any business, right? Everyone thinks, oh, my business is unique, or I'm trying to create this.

It's, it's unique, but every business, yeah, it might have its own uniqueness, but ultimately there's a visionary.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: could call it a CEO, A founder or whatever, but take all those titles that titles don't [00:36:00] matter in this, but I think what you're describing is perfectly this. There's a visionary, then there's an integrator who could be A-C-O-O-A VP or whatever, or president of whatever.

And then there's the functions underneath it. And in a business it would be sales, something, sales, operation, finance. But the visionary is like, okay, this is where I need to go. But you can't do it all on your own. We all stand on the shoulders of those before us. And then the integrators say, okay, well I have this great.

Crew underneath me. How do I get them? I love your, I I use that also 'cause I used to row, but like, how do I get everyone to row in the, in the same way and, and have it be effective and seamless and frictionless and all those things that you described

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: right,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: in the beginning about your definition of hospitality was like to feel known.

'cause you have to know the visionary and you gotta know your team underneath to really execute. And it's really that it's like a design integrator.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: right. Well, I, you know, I understand what you're describing. I, I feel like integrator could be [00:37:00] sometimes a little reductive. Um, I, you know, I'll use another analogy. I, you know, I think often about the, the role of a conductor in an

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Mm. Yes.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Um, you know, it's, it's you, you have the stars, you have the people who play those instruments better than anyone else. then you need to allow everyone to come along and, and, and, and, and direct them to be able to play the tune. Um, you know, at the same, you know, rhythm, same measures. Uh, sometimes you, you, you, you indicate to the back, you know, the guy with a symbol that only plays every once in a while, but it's really important when that sound comes across and they need to be brought in at the right time. So I, I do think that there are elements of it that, uh, are similar to what you described and make a lot of sense. But what I've also found is, you know, a lot of my moves professionally have happened at sort of inflection points in the life of these organizations. [00:38:00] And what, what I had to do was use that inflection point, usually was a, a point of growth and, and, and allow that energy that the leader, the founder, the, the, the person that really made sense around whom the business made sense to, deploy that energy and to channel it in a way that helps the company evolve and grow.

And sometimes with big, big changes that had to occur. So I, I, I've always liked the challenge, you know, of, of interpreting, the visionary, finding the right way to communicate with them, the right way to communicate what they are. What they want to achieve to a broader team of people, which, you know, naturally they're not, they don't always have the patience to do that, but also that team understand that they're a part of the adventure.

We're on the journey, and that has to lead to growth. [00:39:00] and so I've always been sort of, um, um, you know, moving back and forth between just the, harnessing that energy, but at the same time creating a different energy around the people doing the work so that we can move forward and grow and change and evolve. Um, you know, with all the things that, you know, it's a fast changing world of design and, and hospitality, as you know, and we can't stop, right. We have to continuously move people forward and bring in new ways of doing things.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: I am curious about those inflection points in areas of growth is per chance, do they correlate to the credit cycle and recessions?

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: They did. Right.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Oh, they did. Okay. Wow. Okay. Because I found that like. I am always in this place of building, building, building systems, processes, get everything going, and it's great. And then you're in this good space and then you get sideswiped and you're like, crap, how do I [00:40:00] adapt?

And what is next? And then always out of that pain comes a lot of growth.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: right. And, you know, and, and I don't want to, uh, dismiss the impact that some of those moments, you know, that the way the economy evolves have had in other professions. But I think we all know that the design professions tend to be, tend to suffer hugely from those moments because it's just, it's just more fragile.

Right. It's just that tends to, um, not be as prepared and as resilient to its extent those shocks. So, you know, it did happen when I, when I moved, um, from Portugal to to New York. It was 2000, late 2007. You know, I think we all saw some signs of what

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Oh, so you, you'd, you'd, um, shut down, or, or you, you wound down your company to go work with Alexandra, right? So you're on this new path. You're moving to New York

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: a

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: 2007. Oh boy.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: and, and, and, and at the time,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Wow.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: I didn't, I didn't make the decision because I thought I [00:41:00] needed to be out of the environment where I was in it. We were still in a period of growth or a belief of, of, of growth. Um, and so I really saw that move

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: I.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: you know, there were a lot of reasons that that, that the job was appealing.

I had met Alexandra a couple of times and I, um, you know, was really interested in her view of, of design and, and what she could achieve with her company. Um, I was, I love the idea of bringing my family, out of a smaller environment and you know, and having them be exposed to a much bigger world. I had always been fascinated by New York, um, the US in general, you know, I always felt like the size of the economy in the US and the professionalism of the people I knew was, was really appealing to me. But yes, I did arrive and we landed and I guess, what was it now, now it's all oil. It's blurred, but March, 2008, right.

Bear Stearns Crashed

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: there.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: and, you know, and [00:42:00] everyone retreated and all of a sudden of the business disappeared, I think about three months after I joined the company.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: So in all of that, it's like tremendous learning, right? I, oh, actually, you know what? I feel like when, uh, when we spoke, you mentioned that that recession was like your MBA. Is that possible? Am I making that up? up?

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: right. Absolutely. You know, absolutely. I, I, and not to say that I learned everything that people learn in an MBA,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: More practical experience.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: practical. You know, having taken my first executive level job, um, you know, running, uh, all the, the sort of the, the angles of a, of a design firm that did work internationally you know, and, and, and in a way having made a promise to, to the person that had hired me that I would, you know, be an, an effective member of the team, helping the company grow and really believing in what I could achieve there. but it was really focused on what I, the learnings I was bringing from before, [00:43:00] which was I had built this company with my wife successfully. It, it, you know, we had been successful at creating a culture, a good culture of, of, of building up a, a, a roster of clients that really trusted us. of a sudden a lot of that didn't really matter because we were in survival mode there was no business and the business that was there. didn't know what was going to happen. And so a lot of my time was spent just making sure that the work we did, we did really well, that the, um, people that we had around us that we really trusted, were encouraged and not discouraged because, you know, you can't get good work, good design work, good creative work if people are not able to sleep.

And I know a lot of people were not at the time, but, you know, we, I tried to bring an optimism to work every day and then everything I was learning about, you know, how to, how to, you know, keep the money flowing in every month, [00:44:00] um, completing the work that we were supposed to complete, making any mistakes. Continuing to focus on, um, you know, we did hire some people at the time that, that we all, you know, at, at the, the ownership level of the company felt that could deliver work more, more confidently and more effectively. then, you know, there was a little bit of luck there too. There, you know, there had been some contacts in the company prior to that with, um, they were already working on a project in China and you know, that was a moment where a lot of North American firms, uh, were very successful bringing to China a level of expertise that didn't exist there.

And

they

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: And, and we had five years after that of. Pretty much work being developed, business being developed in Asia, in, in China, in Japan, in Indonesia. Um, it was very, very interesting time because, you know, I was trying to figure out how to do business in those places, how to satisfy [00:45:00] clients that had a very different mindset and a very different expectation making the money come in and making Alexandra feel like vision could still be deployed at this sort of larger scale.

And continuing to encourage the staff that we had a future and that the company was going to be successful. And it was hard work, but, but, and, and very broad work in terms of everything I had to think about every day. And, and, and, you know, the company was, was well set up. There was a, a board of directors that had, you know, very experienced people who Alexander had a lot of trust in who I. Still to this day, um, think were were important mentors for me because they also believed in my ability of getting the work done. But yes, I was exposed to business in, in a way that I didn't think was going to happen.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Um, I consider myself so lucky to have gone to China six to eight times a [00:46:00] year from 2001. Probably 2018. Um, and to see that explosive growth and a at a scale, I mean, the little town I would go to go to from 2001 onward outside of Shanghai turned into a metropolis and manufacturing. Hu I mean, it's just bel the way that the bond in Shanghai just reshaped it for the world, uh, expo and then the Olympics.

And, um, it was like, I I, I don't know if anyone, well, I'm sure I don't wanna say anyone ever in the future, but like the amount of scale and construction and just going back to that word scale is like, I don't know when the next time is that humanity will see that insanity. It was like a sight to behold.

And I think that's a really good segue to get back onto the scale, talk and talk and, and from. As far as sands and like how [00:47:00] they just like, yeah, they were in Vegas and it started as, um, oh my god. What's that electronic show?

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Oh, the, the, yes, I know what you, the computer show.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Yeah, the computer, whatever it is. Oh my God. It has the letters. But that, that was Sheldon Adelson's, like first thing, and he sold that and then then grew this hospitality empire and, and really reshaped Right.

Macau, I mean, and Southern China.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right. Especially when when the Venetian opened in, in, in Vegas, that was really something completely new.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: C-E-S-C-E-S-C-E-S-S.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: know, the Venetian was, was a, you know, a a, a new concept of gaming and hospitality and entertainment sort of all in one, in

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Yeah.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Fantasy world. Right.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: But done at such a high level, like the fantasy world's been done before, but not at such a high level of like.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Insanity. Like just the amount of, of,

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: the of a building. [00:48:00] Right. You don't.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: yeah. I mean, and then, so, okay, so then coming from Champ Palomo and then working with Sans, and I'm really curious, 'cause I've only met, uh, wing Chow a couple of times, and for those of you who don't know him, he is like pivotal in like, the expansion of, just from a hospitality perspective at Disney. And he's just a legend in like a founding father of our industry of hospitality and hospitality design.

But it's hard to get your brain around the scale. What are some ways that wing, because you mentioned that he was really good at helping you see the world through the eyes of others and experiences of others. But how did he help, like what are some like actual ways that he. He showed you that and and helped expand your mind so that you could get your head around that scale and execute within that scale.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: you know, it, it started with the way he looked at. design that was presented to him, [00:49:00] which was we could have this rendering a, of a, of a five story atrium, with a big fountain in the center and, you know, and all these paths leading to different places. And, and, and Wayne would start talking about the scale of the people that were on the rendering before he would actually start talking about the building itself. And, and if for some reason the people that were representing on, on, on the rendering were not the right type of people that would be in that space, he would be really disturbed by it. Like, you know, these are a, a guy in a suit with a briefcase, you know, in a, in a, in a little atrium before you enter the gaming lounge. That's not the kind of person you see there.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Oh, that's super interesting. So basically the design could be good, could be bad, it could be the best design ever in the world. Let's just assume it's the best design ever. He's focusing on the actual renderings of the people and what they look like, and is that a real representation of the type of person that's gonna be [00:50:00] walking through this space?

Holy cow.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: where he started. I mean, from what, from what my experience was, and maybe other people have different experiences, my experience was that he started with what are people seeing? How are they experiencing this space?

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: and, and where are they going and what does this mean? It wasn't about, Hey, we have these great finishes on the walls and there's all this detailing and the lighting and the chandeliers.

It, it was about what does it feel like to be in that place? And I remember, you know, in one meeting that was a lesson for me, we were reviewing the work of the interior designers, and I think at one point I made a comment about something. I said, oh, I, I like that. And he looked at me and he said, well, this is not about whether you like it or not. is about, is it right or is it, is it wrong? And so he had such a sense of, you know, it's not just about, we're not just there, especially in this role, you know, I, when I moved from Champ Moto sans, I moved from the role of executing design [00:51:00] to being the sort of the owner's rep, the, the, the person who makes sure the designers are doing, delivering the right product for that business. And, and I was still, you know, at times it takes a while to make that shift, uh, because you start looking at things a little differently. But there was, for him, a clear sense that we were not there to think whether we liked it or not. It was really about should, is this what we should be doing? And if you start by evaluating, um, the physical manifestation of design in that way, then you just, you just look at things very differently. And, and that different lens that he used, I think was a big part of. he was so influential around, you know, and, and, and why so often his, the projects that he was involved with sort of ended up in a place where people felt really good there.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Wow.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: It was about, are people queuing too much? Are they, you know, are they waiting too much to move here? [00:52:00] Um, you know, when, when designers were too worried about the, the, the, the physical side of it, he would always look at them and say, Hey, this is not a museum. is

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: This is not, we're not here to look at the details. And, and, you know, and sometimes that's difficult when you come from a place of integrity, which was, you know, very much my experience before that.

It was, I had been involved with historical renovations, you know, and, and, and I, because my training was very much informed by sort of a more classic approach to design. To me, everything matters. It's not just the, you know, the two sides of the, of the wall that you see. It's the, the whole, you know, the whole architecture, the whole. Um, design that needs to make sense,

but

in his view, that was secondary. It was more about how do we first create an impression? How do we choreograph the experience that people are having in this hotel through the lobby, into the, into the, the, [00:53:00] the elevator, into the corridor, into the room? What does a room feel like?

How do you, how do you compress the spaces, um, in scale so that people still feel good and they feel like their, their, their feelings about what they, where they are, are also changing? Right? It's a very dynamic way of looking at design sometimes designers are too focused on what does it look like and that feels static. It's, there is, there is a, a great value in being able to apply that dynamic look because then you, you just end up with something, you know, going back to, uh, what I said at the beginning about defining hospitality and it being about that, you know, that, that impression you need both. If you don't have both, it's very hard to get to a place where people want to keep coming back. And, and that's why, you know, maybe people keep going back to Disney and they, they have honed that experience over time

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: I mean, it works.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right. And [00:54:00] when you apply that in the right way, you know, to the right properties, um, this, this sense of immersion and of, of, of emotional connection with the spaces and, and for the designers and the people responsible for the project, to think about All of the emotional, of what they're creating with their, with their physical ideas, all of that makes a big difference.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: I, I love that. I, and I never considered it. To think about the experience of the actual humans going through, and to focus on that first, regardless of what everything is, and to hear that, whether it's right or wrong, that's a little, that's like shocking to me. But I guess he just, if you, if you consider that stakeholder of who's going through it, everything else kind of becomes plain

or it becomes just real, right or wrong.

Um, fast forward to Irvine Company and Mr. Brenn. Do I call him Donald? Mr. Brenn? Mr. Brenn? Mr. Brenn. Okay. Mr. Bren. Um, [00:55:00] where they're, do, you're working on things that are of a, like neighborhoods city, town, like large scale mo um, master planned developments where it's not just the actual human walking through, there's cars and trucks and deliveries and, you know, just infrastructure much.

I loved how you talked about that element that. Of thinking about the, the actual human walking through and considering that, that wing gave you, but what did Mr. Bren from that experience like? Did, did he, did you pick up anything from him As far as in, in the same light as how Wing Chow taught you to consider the, the person and the rendering of the person and the, the, the psychographic of the person going through it.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: I, I think the short answer is yes, I did. You know, I, I think because, um, Mr. Brown is such a, a thoughtful and educated person, you know, with. Decades of experience [00:56:00] doing, you know, these large scale projects. It takes time to sort of, bring, you know, have a full understanding of what we learned from these, from, from being exposed to, to, to people like him. he had an uncanny ability zoom out and zoom in in a project and, you know, and, and, and, and has the ability to sort of think about how we're transforming this neighborhood and in, you know, introducing a, a new, uh, road that leads to, you know, that particular place then, you know, five minutes later he is looking at carpet patterns, um, that we have inside the corridors and inside the public spaces and, and have equally, um, confident opinions a about either.

And I think that

that's

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: No.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Rare for a human being to be able to have that ability. Look at the small scale, look at the large scale and have an equal conviction about both. What he did have in common with Wing, and I [00:57:00] think it's, you know, goes back to that focus on people is is this idea that for them customer experience is not something that they talk about too much. It, it just is, it's just is the way you think about any building that is being put together for whatever purpose it's a hotel. Uh, nowadays for me it's more the sort of the multifamily developments, but it's this ability of, of how do we, what's the choreography of,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: uh, of the, the users of that, the customers, the users of that building.

What do they see when they arrive, when they get to the door? Are we leading them in the right direction? You know, that that idea of the, of the red carpet that, you know, we often, we see in, you know, galas and idea of the red carpet was really just to leave people to the entrance without having to think.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Yeah.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Beautiful gowns, beautiful dresses, well dressed up. They're coming out of the limo. don't wanna have to be looking around. Where's the door? Is it there? Is it there? It's the red carpet is what takes them to the entrance, and they don't have to [00:58:00] think about it. I read this once somewhere, you know, some designer, architect was doing a, an object lesson about the red carpet, and I never forgot that. You, you need to create these visual cues that make it so clear you know where you're going, that your brain is then able to, to observe other things and appreciate other things and enjoy being there you're not having to spend any mental energy. Trying to think about the things that we should be making obvious for people as designers and as promoters of a of a, of a certain physical property.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: It's interesting, as you were saying. Um. To not even consider the human or the guest experience or the, the, it's just, it is like, that's the idea of table stakes, right? It, that's just, it's, and it, what resonated with me is, you know, when myself or anyone at Berman, Falk, or any of our reps everywhere and we talk about, we do a presentation on like, [00:59:00] uh, this is what we do.

We rarely talk about quality. Like that's just table stakes. Like we don't, we wouldn't be in this game if we didn't get that right. And I think that there's so many different industries and professions and vocations where it's really important to know the table stakes, right? I think a lot of people try to come into certain industries and they don't know what the table stakes are, and they spend a lot of time talking about what should just be a given and not about the other things that are probably equally or just as important, but to get to that point where you're not worried about everything else.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right, right. Which, which then has a corollary to that, which is that you should also not be trying to reinvent things that, you know, work every single time. There are, you know, when, especially when you work on a lot of projects over many years, there are things that just work well. And, and I found that, you know, all of these people I've [01:00:00] worked with through my life and, you know, and, and it expands with beyond this group that we talked about.

I've, you know, I've had the privilege of working with great architects, great interior designers, and I think they all have this ability to just enough, innovate just enough, bring in things that are new, but, but be confident about the things that, you know, work. And sometimes it's a matter of scale.

Sometimes it's a matter of focus on detailing. Sometimes it's a matter of, you know, just. you've seen 20 new materials at hd. use them all in the next project. maybe use the ones, you know, work and then, you know, add that additional one that is great, but you know that everyone else is gonna use it too. so

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Mm

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: the ability to also, you know, have a sort of a funnel and be the master of that funnel to

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: mm

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: really good, um, elements of an idea to kind of get through make it to the project. And then know [01:01:00] that, some things have to wait for the next one. That's also a great skill. and, and, you know, and, and I, I don't know if I know how to do that, um, as, as well, but I have learned over the years, I'm, I've gotten better at that. I've gotten better at being patient about the, um, the sort of pausing and looking at what we're trying to achieve and then not being afraid when something is wrong or feels wrong. To say, no, this doesn't work. Let's not

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: mm

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Waste any more time. Let's let's course correct and move and move in a different direction.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: One of the things that I, I think would be interesting is, and I I'm curious for your experience on this, is so working on these big, um, casinos and hotels and just experiences in Asia with Sands where there's almost no constraints, right?

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: It's just like there's, I know there's not limitless budget, but there's like, it's like, let's just make this an incredible place.

It'll be, it'll be a, a homing beacon to everyone who wants [01:02:00] to come in and have an incredible experience. And, but from a regulation, a regulatory perspective, the local jurisdictions there are like, okay, they're, they're full on behind you and supporting you. I'm sure there are con some constraints. And then you go on the other side of that to Irvine Company and doing these large kind of master plan developments with infrastructure and different components.

And then in California where there's so many constraints, especially the closer you get to the ocean,

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: right.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: it must, it, I don't know. I feel like it must yield a whole much d like an incredibly different type of creativity to work within those regulatory constraints. Like how, can you describe like the stark?

Is there a stark difference and describe that.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Well, constraints in my view, are really helpful for creativity

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: That, you know, when we're able to work within certain boundaries and we have to, to push everyone around us to do a little bit [01:03:00] more, I actually think there's something to it that's good. You know, I, whether there are too many constraints or not, I will leave that for another discussion another day. Um, you know, 1, 1, 1 thing that is important about Irvine Company that I think is, is, is, is worth mentioning is that the company has a, a, a philosophy of, of owning in perpetuity. So every that we develop, every building that we develop and build is going to be owned forever. These are not speculative developments that, you know, eventually will trade at a valuation at some later date. These are, these are assets that are going to be built. And then operated by the company until, you know, a whole new generation of people are around dealing with them. you have that long-term view, it changes a lot of things about how we plan and we design, uh, and we build anything. Um, you, you, you think thinking long-term allows us to have, you know, be [01:04:00] less tied to, um, just solving one problem that's impacted by one regulation here and there, because we are already in many ways in order to, to to, to build these with a long-term thinking, we kind of already have to think about a lot of the limitations that are imposed on us by, by regulatory.

You know, or even by the location. And so I, I do think that that is very unique. Maybe the experience that other people have in California, if they're just sort of more on the speculative side might be. But for me it's, you know, it, I, I like the challenge. I like the challenge, you know, it, it does get frustrating at times and, you know, and, and we do wish that some things that no one can explain why we do it that way or have to do it that way, needs to be, needs to be done accordingly. Um, but we do find ourselves being very, very resourceful. And, and I, I, I, I ask that of my team [01:05:00] and I ask that of every designer I work with. I, that's, that's what keeps me going back to certain firms and to certain, um, creative people because

they

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: It. And if, if you create that sense of trust and they know, they understand what they're trying to achieve, we can get a good job. I do notice that it's harder sometimes to bring in people from outside of California to do the work sometimes you might go down an avenue that, you know, can't, just, can't be done because of where we are. And, and sometimes you don't have the time to do that,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Hmm.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: But that's just part of the trade off, you know, of, of having to get things done and, and having to get them done in a certain amount of time.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Well, I, I think all of that. Is it just a testament too to your original definition of ho hospitality and it's just, you know, feeling known or being known as you said, because whether it was your own company and the curiosity you [01:06:00] had there to start that, or coming to the US or learning about luxury and working international and navigating through the great recession at Champ Palomo or at Sands, creating these great things and learning so much under their wing, or being at Irvine Company and building and owning in perpetuity.

Those are the table stakes. That's really like each of one of those situations, they were all very clear on what it was, what their purpose was, right,

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: right. And you know what, what I think that also has led me to do is over the years, create very strong partnerships. I'm, I'm not always looking to reinvent entirely the people I work with, uh, or, you know, who support our projects. On, on, on, on the, the, the. Creative services side as well as on the vendor side. You know, we, we, I I do feel that there's an enormous value in developing partnerships of people you can continuously go back to. I feel like there are, you know, vendors [01:07:00] I've worked with over the years that, through my challenge have become better at what they do. I have become better because they have also challenged me to look at things differently. And, and so, you know, and, and maybe that goes back to the fact that I, I came to the country a, you know, without a network, without a single contact. And, and I valued over the years, incredibly, all the people that I have met, you know, and we go back to the conversation you and I had when we just reconnected recently. It's, it's so important to have that sort of, that village of people that are there for you when you need them. But you're also there for them because you keep giving them business and you keep bringing them along, you give them a sort of a stability and a confidence that wherever you're gonna be, there's a place for product, there's a place for their services. and I'm very vested in the idea of the people that support my work being, [01:08:00] uh, financially successful and in particular with, with interior design firms. I, I think one of the things I've brought, uh, when I transitioned from, you know, being a, a member of a design team to being, uh, an executive in a company that, that hires the services of those firms, is that as much as I push them to do great work, I'm always focused on the fact that they're, are they, are they making money on this project?

Are they, are they able with their fee? To support their firm to continue growing. Are we asking them to do the right thing? Are we pushing them too hard? I, I cannot take off that hat because I know that having healthy, optimistic, designers is so important to getting a good project, to getting a good outcome. That I, I I, I, I, I keep moving between one and the other. And when I have the opportunity, [01:09:00] I try to mentor young designers. I try to mentor owners of design firms, uh, sharing with them this point of view that I now have from my side of the fence, which I, I, I learned a lot from that, that, you know, what my, what clients really want and how do they make their decisions? And, and the whole process of, you know, an idea, an idea being presented and communicated. In a room where you have the owner, the executive that is the sponsor of the project, the project manager, the person in charge of, of budgeting, and the finance person and you know, and then the design team. All of these people have a different view.

And when you're a designer, you're having to present to, to be able to convince people that you have the best idea. You know, one of the things I do with designers often when they're coming in to present to a group is to let them know who's the key person in that room. So when you walk in, you're gonna have a lot of faces looking at you, but there's only one that matters because [01:10:00] ultimately helping that that person understand where we're going is going to be the, the easiest way to facilitate the decision making. That's decision making in large companies is very, very difficult. It's, it's, it's time consuming. It, it requires, you know, a somewhere between conviction and consensus, which. in a good way can lead to a really great place. Done in a bad way, can, can be a disaster. And, and so I do think that that partnership, just going back to that point, having the partnerships to me is, has been the key of, of a lot of my success because I create trust and then hopefully that those people trust me too.

And, and we can keep, um, evolving together.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: I mean, amen to that, and that again, it's all about. Feeling known

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Right,

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: letting everyone else feel known. And it's a two-way street.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: right.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Um, Bruno, this has been a magnificent con conversation and [01:11:00] I'm so glad to get to know you better through this and dig deeper. Yeah. And feel known. And, um, yeah. And again, everyone, if you're walking down, just make some space.

Look to your right, look to your left. Take a minute just like Bruno did, just like I did. Um, really cool things come out of this. And, um, I just wanna say thank you for sharing your experience with our listeners and with me, um, selfishly. Um, and if people wanted to learn more about you or Irvine Company, what's a good way for them to do some learning or connect?

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Well, the, the easiest way to connect with me would be on LinkedIn, Bruno Viterbo. There's probably a couple other people with a, with a, with the same name. But I, I think mine shows up right away. Um, I'm, you know, I'm, as I said earlier, I'm very open to, um, talking to people.

I, I'm very vested in the. progress of our, um, profession as interior designers and of the hospitality and the design [01:12:00] world in general. And so I am always, always open to mentoring, discussing, debating, you know, having all those great conversations, um, to, to keep moving things forward. And then, you know, there's a social media, then Instagram, the turbo.

Bruno can also find me there. Um, Pinterest

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Cool.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: Um, you know, I try to keep, I, I try to keep a lot of avenues open to inspire me and to find inspiration. There's almost too much of it these days, but I try to find the right places to, to get what I think I need. My fix, my fix of inspiration to keep me going.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: Wonderful. And we'll be sure to keep all those in the links as well, um, after the show. So when you go on there, just click, it'll take you wherever you want to go, but seriously, a heartfelt Thank you. I appreciate you so much and um, thank you.

bruno-viterbo_1_07-18-2025_112744: This was a pleasure, Dan. Thank you so much for having me.

dan-ryan--he-him-_6_07-18-2025_142744: And thank you to all of our listeners. If this changed your idea on hospitality or thinking about scale differently or, or experience being table [01:13:00] stakes or you think someone could benefit from this, please pass it along. Uh, we grow a lot by just people sending this to others saying, oh, you may not have considered this, or we were talking about something similar.

So please do that and we'll catch you next time.