Defining Hospitality

[00:00:00]
Dan Ryan: The creator of eye-catching designs and owner of the iron horse hotel in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, owner, founder, and president of B&Co a hospitality branding company, ladies and gentlemen, Brigette Breitenbach welcome, Brigette.
Brigette Breitenbach: Thank you. Thanks so much for having me, Dan,
Dan Ryan: I actually forgot one of the most important parts and advisory board member of the independent lodging Congress, where that's actually where I first met you.
Brigette Breitenbach: Absolutely. It's where I've actually met a ton of people. So hence stay in involved.
Dan Ryan: [00:01:00] Absolutely. And for all the work that you're doing in hospitality as a leader, um, I really wanted to get you on for so many different reasons. Um, number one, because of my relationship with you and your G you've just been so incredible and supportive in so many different endeavors and also in ILC, but also you help people clarify their visions on what they want their brand to be and what they want that to communicate.
Brigette Breitenbach: Yeah.
Dan Ryan: So when we think about that part, um, I always start off with, how do you define hospitality and let us know.
Brigette Breitenbach: So for me, hospitality, isn't service right services just to given, I think hospitality is to meaningly care for guests in a manner that makes them feel cared for. And I think if you think about it, that one.
You really have to start with who is the guest? Who's the patron, who's the target audience? What does not [00:02:00] fatality mean to them? And how do we develop it?
Dan Ryan: I love the who, what and how then the other question, which I think you're kind of a wizard at is the why, and really helping owners clarify. What the, why is, or what, why are they trying to convey what they're going to convey?
So tell us about your process at uncovering the Y.
Brigette Breitenbach: Sure, sure. all of our projects start with a discovery phase and, we tell all of our clients that with the exception of a few markets We don't know their market. We don't know the city that they're from. We don't know the local community.
And so we start to dig in and we almost come at every project with the perspective of being the guest. And so we try to dig in and. we Understand kind of what's happening in that market. What's new and exciting. And then we really drill down to, okay, who do you think your target audience is? Who are you building this property for?
[00:03:00] Or rebranding it for? Because until you define their passions, interests and values you really don't know what you're going for. And so to understand, that market and guest exploration piece of the puzzle, you're never going to get to the foundational branding So it really starts with who are you trying to please?
And then have it be please
Dan Ryan: them. So the who part also can be terrifying because when you're really getting clear on a who or who the owner wants, um, it sounds oftentimes it could be Afro aspirational. It might be disconnected from who the actual who is. And when you finally decide on who. You're picking a who at the expense of so much else, but I really feel like a real brand, a strong brand is very strong with their who at the expense of so many other things.
So how do you weigh that decision on the who, especially if it's not [00:04:00] aligned with what an owner wants or is.
Brigette Breitenbach: I think there's two levels of figuring out who your guest is. You know, the, the very basic ways to say, um, or this property is designed for, it's a, it's a business property, and we need to make sure that we're taking care of that sales guy.
That's been on the road all day. He said a few meetings. He checks in at eight o'clock. He really wants to get a sandwich at the bar before he goes to bed. He wants a comfortable place to sleep in a hot cup of coffee, and he wants to be on his way the next day. He also probably wants you to remember this.
You know, if he's a frequent guest. And so what are the ways that we can identify? What motivates that person to choose you over other folks? Um, the flip side of that is, let's say an empty nester couple they're going on a vacation. They want to spread out a little, they want concierge level services.
They want, um, to know where the spa is. They want a great bar that they can kind of share a picture on [00:05:00] Facebook for their grandkids and that they want their guest room to be as nice as their house, if not nicer. Well, that's a completely different level of expectation. And so on one hand, it starts with a performance.
Where are you putting your ADR? Where you're your hotel? Who do you expect to capture? That's kind of a numbers game, but then let's drill down even further and say, all right, if that's the ADR and you're going to be, you know, the upper 10% in a market, what are all the ways that we can sort of differentiate a property from its competitive sets?
And then that that's long before we created. That's just understanding where are your places in the marketplace, in the market and how you can kind of capture an audience.
Dan Ryan: And as you're laying all of that out, and I know that I said, you know, it could be, from my opinion, it could be scary when you're really choosing one who over the many who, um, walk us through a time when you may have, there may have been like a, a disconnect [00:06:00] between what a client of yours wanted.
As their who, but as your research showed who the, who actually is, and then how you kind of bridge that gap there and how to win.
Brigette Breitenbach: Um, so I guess a good example might be a project that we've worked on, uh, in The Bahamas. Um, we were hired to transition a property from a series of. To kind of luxury four star hotel.
And, um, the thinking is that we were going to identify, you know, families that were going to do an extended stay, say a seven to 10 day trip, and that they were very happy sort of staying right there, um, at the property because it was on the sliver of the island of Eleuthera. And the more we started to recognize the fact that this could be a property that could appeal to, um, generational travel.
In other words, family's coming for not only a wedding, but families coming with their phones. [00:07:00] Um, entourage or family members. And so all of a sudden it got a little bit bigger instead of having all of the amenities designed to say couples or, um, you know, maybe, uh, a female traveler, it really became, how do we create an environment that's good for multi-generational travelers so that they didn't expect to have kids there, but they were getting hit there and they didn't expect to have a lot of weddings that was starting to happen.
Um, and so we were able to shift. Um, and I think a lot of it came down to the openness of the client that said, all right, what, what can we do? Um, this is our foundational brand, but how do we extend that to appeal to a broader demographic?
Dan Ryan: And was there any, um, pushback along the way, or like, how did, was there a lot of convincing that you had to do?
How did you come up with
Brigette Breitenbach: that? Um, we really didn't have to do a ton of convincing. I think. I think sometimes the market or the guests will tell you what they want. You know, you, you may come out of the box with a [00:08:00] concept for delivering a guest experience that's on brand. But if the customer doesn't care about those amenities, if the customer's not asking for that, if they don't take the gift that you have prepared for them at the end of their stay, they're going to tell you what they want.
And then you have to be able to make shifts. And I think good management companies recognize that and can make a shift.
Dan Ryan: Interesting. Another thing, like from my worldview of supplying the furniture into the hotels, oftentimes I'm working with interior designers and owners after all of the branding has been settled.
Then it goes to interior design. Then they're kind of making the built environment. Um, do you often work in conjunction with those designers as far as, um, solidifying the who? The what and the where, and when. Yeah. The,
Brigette Breitenbach: the process that we liked the best and, and trust me, look, we come in at a variety of different times.
The ideal scenario is that we get a seat at the table, along with [00:09:00] the developer, the hotel manager, the, our management company, the interior design team, the architect. Um, the food and beverage people, we all get together at the very beginning, beginning, and we go through a process together. I always feel like those are the best case scenarios because they really start with, how do we address all of these different aspects of hospitality development?
But there are other times where we come on board and someone says to us, we know the name, uh, the, the interiors have been picked out, and then we have to kind of chase that train. That's a little bit harder. That's kind of almost retrofitting a brand, um, into a design. Um, but ideally we'd like to work hand in hand with the interiors team and a lot of what we do from the standpoint of first market exploration and then going into kind of brand story.
The result of that brand story really should be something that will inform the interiors team that they understand what the concept is, and they can [00:10:00] run with it.
Dan Ryan: I'm always amazed how you get these ideas or you, you pull these ideas or distill these ideas out of the head of an owner or whichever way the project is organized.
And then you can turn them into colors and designs and shapes and graphics and tell a story. How did you. I get so good at that. Like w how did you find your way to doing what you're doing now?
Brigette Breitenbach: Uh, well, I am an accidental hotelier, you know, I had a client back in 2006, he came to me and he said, yeah, you can do like branding or marketing or something.
And I'm opening up this hotel and I'm looking for someone to help me develop a concept. We're not going to be an independent hotel. And so we back then, I, like I said, at the time I've never branded a hotel before. And he said, well, we'll figure it out. And, um, and it was, it was a journey and it was, it was fantastic.
And [00:11:00] we spend a lot of time going to a boutique hotels in Miami LA and New York, Chicago, just to understand kind of what, what, what works and what's exciting and what's different. Um, if we opened up a hotel in 2008, that became the iron horse hotel at the time. Uh, that was right when Lehman brothers crashed literally the same day.
And the owner, um, was short cash because the last piece of the puzzle didn't come together. And so I became an owner of the Hilltop by default, a small sliver owner.
I ultimately traded what was owed to me is a percentage of this hotel. So here I am, I become like a small owner in a hotel.
And I said to my tiny team at. Well, we're going to figure this out. And so we just got seriously focused on hospitality, branding and fell in love with it kind of became hotel junkies. [00:12:00] And since then we've branded close to a hundred hotels bars and
Dan Ryan: since 2008. Yeah. Wow. So that's an interesting bookend to go from Lehman brothers, literally the day straight into.
What the world throughout us with COVID, um, you've really experienced two huge, um, existential moments within the hospitality industry. And every time I see you and hear you and you just light up every time you're talking about it, like, how have you gotten through both of them? Are there any similar actually, how have you gotten through both of those and are there any similarities that you've seen as far as being an entrepreneur and keeping your team together and how have you done it?
Brigette Breitenbach: Um, so I think the similarities between, you know, what happened in oh eight crash and what happened to all of us during the pandemic is, [00:13:00] um, it forces creativity. Um, it forces you to work on razor thin, uh, margins. You know, for example, in 2008, that Facebook thing was just getting started. And I remember telling the management company at the time, well, we're going to, we're going to get on like Twitter and Facebook.
And they were like, oh, I don't know about that. Like, jury's still out on that. We, we took some like, flack for doing that, but we had no advertising budget. We had no money and that was free at the time. Completely free. And, um, and so it forces you to be creative and I think the same thing held true during COVID.
You know, probably was even worse for hotels. And as a result, you know, most of the things in our business froze or went to the back burner. Um, but we had some clients that said help us get through this. And we got to get creative with that. Um, and I think in the end, you know, all of that sort of just forces you to be better when [00:14:00] everything is good and the money is rolling in, uh, Business gets lazy.
And, um, so yeah, I don't regret having to go through that again.
Dan Ryan: When you think about your experiences as a traveler, and you think about where you've been and where, where you're going, like, how do you, how do you make yourself feel comfortable when you travel and how does that inform your creative process?
Brigette Breitenbach: Well, someone told me early on in this whole process that, well, you're going to work in hospitality.
You know, it's just going to ruin your hotel stays for, from now on. And I think to some extent, it really hasn't been true. I don't just check in mindlessly to a hotel anymore. I just look at everything and I see everything. I keep track of like, oh, You know, that's the guy that works at the front desk.
He's clearly just going to get in his car, but [00:15:00] he was still so super nice to me, like turn to him. It wasn't like he left the property and had boundaries, little stuff like that. I feel like I noticed all the time. And I think when you love hospitality, when you love to travel, you start to recognize what's.
Um, because I often think there, there are no completely new ideas anymore. We're all borrowing ideas from one another and we're making them work and fit within the cities and properties that we work within. And so I think I've become a good observer. Um, and I think that has helped. And, and my team, you know, I've got a tiny little team.
Um, they they've all, I mean, they inherently love travel, but they've all become kind of better observers of travel. And I think all of that helps us when we work on the next project together.
Dan Ryan: I liked the idea of being better observers of travel, because it helps what you're doing as far as informing a brand [00:16:00] story. If you've observed everything, you can just. Chart a new territory, right. Or chart a new path. And it's interesting where you say that there's very few new ideas. I'd say the iron horse was really a new idea in 2008 because it, the home of Harley Davidson let's make a really high end hotel to cater to those people that was very like visionary back then.
Where are you seeing new, um, kind of Venn diagram? Of a who and a what pop-up.
Brigette Breitenbach: Um, that was a new idea. And to tell you the truth, I am still amazed 13, 14 years later that no. Has really fully embraced this idea of motorcycle riders as travelers. I mean, they are inherent travelers. It's what they do. They happen to bite.
They go to the next place and you know, these are $50,000 motorcycles. Now [00:17:00] it's the independent boutique hotel guest profile. Um, so still scratching my head. Why no one has picked up on that, but, um, where do I see things? Look, I think about my kids, you know, I, my, my son is 25. My daughter's gonna be 24. Um, they love to travel because I've dragged them everywhere.
And you know, what they want is they want to be in a space with people. Um, they don't care about the room so much. Like they don't care about the size of it. They want a common area. They want to feel like they're in a place where we're going to like meet new people. They want it to be a launchpad. And I think they're certainly spending more on, on vacations and travel.
And I did at that age. Um, I think that there's just, there's a lot to be said for that demographic that, um, well, they don't have the money yet. You know, they're, they're, they're coming of age as [00:18:00] travelers say five years from now. They're going to demand a certain level of expectation of guest service and amenities and things like that.
That, you know, we, we didn't at that age.
Dan Ryan: I definitely see younger people spending so much more and I'm hearing about it on travel and experience. Um, and maybe that's because properties and to buy a house have just become unreachable for so many people. And through the COVID pandemic, most people are like, life's too short.
I want to experience as much as I can and suck them our marrow out of life. Um, so I'm definitely seeing that and hearing that. And it's interesting to bring that back to the motorcycle traveler, where they. Exact demographic for a boutique lodging guests, because you know, they're on $50,000 motorcycles, they have [00:19:00] disposable income and they want that experience too.
Um, so thinking about all of the different types of projects you've been working on recently, I know that you've been working with a lot. Businesses and entrepreneurs in the cannabis space. How are you seeing that or has that kind of connected the dots on the hospitality side yet? And where do you see it going?
Brigette Breitenbach: I don't think it has. Yeah. I think it's all there in terms of the demand for people that want kind of that, that, that can experience, especially for people who, um, it's not a total lifestyle for them, but when they travel, they want to experience different. But I don't think that we've seen the industry. I think because of government, I think we haven't seen the industry.
We're able to take care of it, demand yet. You know, what, what I've come to learn with hospitality, um, is that there's a lot of, um, There's a lot of [00:20:00] demand for experiences that people can't have back at home, that's obvious, but when it comes to something like a highly regulated industry, like cannabis, every single state has its own kind of ground rules.
Um, and so it's really challenging to get those hospitality licenses within cannabis. Um, and, and I think that that is only going to be resolved when it is Beverly. I think it's just going to be a mixed bag of experiences and no one will able be able to kind of own that category until we fully have a level playing field, the rules and regulations,
Dan Ryan: and any indication that you're seeing or hearing, or just gut checking on how long that might take.
Brigette Breitenbach: You know, I heard every possible answer on that. I've heard that it, it could have been. You know, there's enough, there's enough, um, legislation out there that [00:21:00] could get voted on tomorrow. I just don't think it well. And so the question becomes, who wants to take the credit and he wants to take the blame.
You know, I think there's a majority of Americans want cannabis legalized, but that means that you're going to make a whole lot of people happy. And then what's the fallout look like. And are you willing to stomach that.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And then I also think about, you know, in a hotel experience as well, there's so much of non-smoking and just not even from a regulation point of view, just guest comfort.
Um, has there been any discussion that you've heard on just the different smells within a hotel?
Brigette Breitenbach: No, I really, I have not heard that very much. Um, not, not to say that it's not an issue. It absolutely is. I mean, you know, most hotels will charge you $250 if you smoke in a room and that's, that's essentially, um, cigarette smoke, but I think it [00:22:00] applies to any kind of, um, any kind of smoke that's going to require additional cleaning.
You know, one more headache for hotels usually means it costs. And again, Um, so I'm not sure where that all stands. I just think there's a tremendous amount of potential. We're just not there yet.
Dan Ryan: Oftentimes. So thinking of like a bad experience of, of smoke as a, as a starting point, oftentimes when we stay in a hotel or we experienced hospitality at someone's home or anywhere a restaurant, oftentimes it's the worst experiences that often informed.
Our path forward, where we're going to go, what is a poor delivery or a poor experience of hospitality that you've experienced, which then informed you to run the other way and things that you do in your business and in your life.
Brigette Breitenbach: I'm trying to think about the last few places I've stayed. I mean, we're working on a project right [00:23:00] now in old San Juan, Puerto Rico, and that, that particular hotel has.
Um, acquired by a new owner. So we're repositioning it. And you know, you walk into these hotels that, you know, are going to be changed for top to bottom. And all you can think is, oh, thank God because everything is wrong about it. You know, the temperature inside is freezing cold and, uh, there's a huge disconnect between the lighting in one space and the lighting and the other.
Two or three different channels of music playing in an area where you could hear all of them. The front desk is very transactional. I mean, it's every, it's every step of the way they've just missed it. And I think, you know, those are great opportunities because there's only one way to go but out. Um, but you can kind of look at that as, uh, as just kind of, uh, an easy shot.
I think you really need to think through, well, what was it. Um, that truly disappointed you. And how can you start with a level of [00:24:00] expectation in a story and then kind of have that carry through to every aspect of your stay and on the way out the door, you know, we I've often said, like, we think about hotels as a, as a, as a book, a novel, and you've got to have a compelling story, but every chapter of that book needs to make sense.
Otherwise you just close the book and you've got. Um, and so I think it's got to be a very holistic experience and it's gotta be the result of something that is born from a cooperative process between the interiors team, the beverage team, the, um, operations team, the branding team, you know, they all have to agree on what it is and how we're going to deliver this.
Otherwise you are going to have those discussions.
Dan Ryan: Gotcha now. Okay. So using that idea of walking into a place that needs to be redone from top to bottom, it could be that particular one or another one. When you walk into one of those places where you're like, oh my God, it's just, it smells it's this it's that it's just like, [00:25:00] I'm not comfortable.
How do you make yourself at ease?
Brigette Breitenbach: Good question. I mean, um, for me, you know, when I, I find a place where I want to work and where I want to. And so if I'm traveling for work, um, I don't prefer to work in my room, but if the lobby is chaotic, the lighting is bad. I mean, the temperature's off. I will just kind of make my own little cocoon in my room.
Um, and I think guests tend to do that. I think they want to find a space that feels right for them. And so the best hotels are the ones that offer kind of a variety of different experiences within one. You know this idea of together alone. I mean, you want to be among people, but you kind of want to be doing your own thing.
Well, are there big tables that you want to share with people or there cozy little corners? You can have a private, private conversation. And I think guests start to find those things on their own. If you don't do it for them.
Dan Ryan: And then for you, [00:26:00] how do you do it? Like if you're in a place where none of those things are there and you're just like, Hey, I'm here.
I got to make the best of.
Brigette Breitenbach: I just spent, um, I just spent a bunch of days in New York working for a few days and then just working from New York. Um, and I found myself freezing in the hotel lobby and I just couldn't stay there. And so, you know, I found a little coffee shop where I could make myself comfortable, you know, guests are going to figure it out.
And the impression that you want them to leave with is that they found that hospitality before. And I don't think a lot of hotels think about that. How are we making guests comfortable?
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And then when you're not comfortable, you're just going somewhere else. So let's say also flipping the coin on that one.
You're interacting with a new client or you're interviewing a new employee and [00:27:00] let's say in the, in those cases, They are just, you can sense that they're just not comfortable. How do you make others feel comfortable in that moment when you send something's not a hundred percent correct.
Brigette Breitenbach: Uh, I think we, we have become better listeners to know when I think about my company and how we've grown over the last couple of years, I think really listening to clients from the jump, you know, at the very beginning, every client comes to you.
Um, different expectations of what they expect of you. They come to you with kind of their own pain of whatever that they're dealing with. Um, I think, I think you need to listen to what people are telling you and kind of move in that direction. And oftentimes with, you know, companies that follow a process like ours, um, you can seem real clients with your process.
If you don't take the moment to sort of build mutual trust and develop what we call an incremental by. You know, when, when we share [00:28:00] concepts and ideas as a, as a small presentation, you don't give them the whole picture. Immediately. We really worked to build up a story because we want them to be part of the process.
Um, and that incremental, Y buy-in tells us that we're on the right path, that we're listening to the client and that we're in the end gonna end up with something that we, we both, um, our product.
Dan Ryan: With an employee or with a client to let them, how do you let's say they, they just are not sure that you're listening to them. How do you let them know that you are listening to them? Is there a reset that you do? How, how do you let them know?
Brigette Breitenbach: We have done resets before we'll present a concept to your clients and, um, that.
Concept may fall flat. Like, you know, you can tell when you present an idea to someone and you don't get that immediate enthusiasm, that great feedback. And I think sometimes that does require. [00:29:00] A reset. And so let's review again. We're are, did we start if, for example, we're at the point where we're developing a name for a client or a name for hotel, and it's just not hitting, we'll go back to the brand village.
Well, what do we say our brand story is, and what are our primary pillars and how are we supposed to sort of be making that, uh, come to life? Does the name, uh, fall within. Um, other things, our guest experiences, if we're recommending guest experiences to the client and they are not so sure that that is the direction that they want to go, we often do a gut check and say, all right, does it deliver on the brand?
Does it deliver those core values that we said in the beginning? Um, so I think if you follow a little bit of a process, you have moments where you've been stopped and make sure you're on the right track.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. It's as if to go back to those pillars, they really. Values. And if those are clear and this is coming up in a lot of conversations, then [00:30:00] it makes the foundation well good.
And everything else kind of falls into place. Um, switching gears over to ILC, how did you find them? How did you become a part of it? And what do you love about. Um,
Brigette Breitenbach: Bashar Wally. So, um, all we all roads lead back to Charlotte. Um, so I was working on a small project for, for sure. And he said, Hey, do you know, do you know, uh, the ILC?
And I said, no, You should come, you should come to an event. You should be a sponsor. He just pushes you in the deep end right away. Um, but I did, I attended that very first Indie Congress and I got involved in anytime. Anyone said, who wants to help? I raise my hand. And that's when Andrew friendly was like, Hey, do you want to be a guidance committee member?
Um, and that was, that was already up years ago. And I couldn't be more thrilled. It's the only industry event you go to. It really is. Um, we get so [00:31:00] much out of all the events, whether they're the one day events or the three-day events. Um, I have met fantastic people and it's not just like networking. I mean, you know, you can kind of network anywhere.
It's the value of, um, the, the intention that people bring to those events. They don't just come to hand out business cards. They really come to talk to people and meet.
Dan Ryan: I think you created a new hashtag value of intention.
And if you were to kind of peel that onion of the value of intention that people bring, what is it and why do you love it? Okay.
Brigette Breitenbach: Um, it is a space that is safe for new. There are a lot of industry events that are out there and people kind of say the same thing, or they say the same thing. They want to come across as successful.
And so that's their opportunity to kind of show off a little [00:32:00] bit. I L see to me is all about the, what if, what if we did this? What did we thought about that way? I love those curious conversations where people aren't afraid to explore. Something new and off the wall.
Dan Ryan: I love the, what if dot.dot I'm interviewing a guy named Jason Caldwell who wrote a book called what if, um, and it's about just pushing boundaries.
Uh, something as crazy as rowing across the ocean three different times. Um, David Rockwell, who I just saw at that, um, the last independent lodging Congress event in Brooklyn, he wrote a book called what if as well, and I really want to get him on because he is such like a visionary leader in our industry as well.
But I love that. What if, because it's so curious, like, what are you most curious about.
Brigette Breitenbach: What if we were all, if we were just all kinder, [00:33:00] you know, I, I think about this a lot in business. I, I often wonder if, um, what the world would be like if we were just all a little bit kinder, not just in every day. Yes. In everyday interactions, but in. People really spend a lot of time kind of posturing. I mean, I've gotten to know my biggest competitors and we get along and we exchange ideas.
We're not afraid to sort of talk about what are you working on. And I think that comes from a level of sort of sincerity and kindness to other people because you know, we're all on this planet for a short time. And, um, yeah, I'd like to see people.
Dan Ryan: It's interesting, as you were saying that you were, if we could all project more kindness, but then it was also making ourselves vulnerable so that we can accept the kindness of others.[00:34:00]
How did you get to the point with your competitors that you both felt comfortable enough to share that.
Brigette Breitenbach: I think it's just icebreaking conversations. It's like, if you're willing to say like, so how's it, how's it going for you guys? And I think if you're able to share something, that's not a home run. I think if you're able to kind of talk about things that we all struggle with, um, you know, just funny client anecdotes about, uh, What, what we'll deal with, you know, like finding the commonality among all of us is a, is a great way to sort of recognize that we're all in this together and there's a ton of business and we don't have to be, you know, doggy dog when it comes to business.
Dan Ryan: It's almost as if there's enough for everyone. So let's just be real.[00:35:00]
And going back into the idea of listening to find that commonality, you really have to be able to listen. So when you see someone who's not being vulnerable, but you're trying to get stuff out of their head, how do you find that commonality? I
Brigette Breitenbach: think it's really sharing your own. I think people open up to people who show their own level of humility.
No. So if you can, if you can be genuine in what you're struggling with or saying something like, why not? I don't understand. Like, it's not like you're not making sense. It's I don't understand. And I think if you're willing to do that, um, that helps with client relationships. It helps with staff relationship.
Um, I think, especially when it comes to staff, like I'm the first person to say, I'm sorry, around here, because, um, you know, you can, you can get busy and then steamroll staff, cause they've got to stay busy with you. And um, so I'm usually the [00:36:00] first person to kind of like own it when it comes to a problem.
And I think when that happens, then you find out other people are willing to do that too.
Dan Ryan: When people, I guess I love the idea of feeling steamrolled. So because oftentimes we're also busy, whether it's our clients or our team, or just we're doing it to others. How do you check yourself when you feel like you're you're you're this team.
Brigette Breitenbach: I, I asked people who will tell me the truth about me, you know?
I mean, you just have to be able to say, how did I do? I mean, we do a lot of presentations, both in person and on video like this, and in the end, in the end, you know, we'll say like, well, how did that go? And, you know, and I'm, I, you know, if I'm messing up in a presentation, like I want to hear it from my staff.
I don't want them to feel like they can't say any. Um, you know, we joke around here that everybody has their own words that they use as comfort bridges. And, [00:37:00] you know, you guys get said a lot around in Milwaukee office trying to lose that. It's tough, but I think, you know, having that level of humility and then asking for feedback, like genuinely asking for feedbacks, probably.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And then it's making people feel comfortable enough to give it. I love feedback as painful as it is, because that's just the goal, most golden information, because it reflects on who we are. Oftentimes I always say like, we're in this own, we're in our own glass jar and we can't read our own label.
Hmm.
Brigette Breitenbach: Yeah. That's yeah. That's fair. You know, and, and we we've, the social media lives that, you know, we're posting the good stuff and the fun stuff and things like that. And to be able to kind of have the ability to say to people, you know, who are either close to you or even acquaintances, like how did I do, how are we doing on this?
Um, I think is important.
Dan Ryan: Keeping it on. Part right now [00:38:00] going from Lehman brothers and really getting into hotels and making it out and growing and doing over a hundred hotels. And then now in COVID, as we start to get through this existential experience, aside from that, what's keeping you up at night, these days.
Brigette Breitenbach: Um, I, so we have a fairly good with our little company. We have a fairly good pipeline and, you know, I am very fortunate to still have the same team together, um, throughout COVID. Um, but I, I sometimes worry about that balance of how busy do you want to get before you start having to add people? And, um, I've always been intentionally small and so you want to get ahead of business and you want to find good.
But you don't necessarily want to staff up. Um, because I don't like that kind of roller coaster, um, thing that companies tend to do, do I do, I do always worry that, you know, do we have enough coming [00:39:00] in? Do we have too much coming in? I think about that a lot. Okay.
Dan Ryan: And I love the metaphor of the rollercoaster and trying to minimize that volatility.
So if you had. A competitor or a friend or another entrepreneur who is challenged by that same balancing act. What kind of advice would you give them?
Brigette Breitenbach: I think to some extent you have to, someone told me in business many, many years ago. Um, sometimes we're defined by the business we don't take. And I think that that can be crucial to a small company.
If you take on every piece of business that comes your way. One, I think you'll find yourself over your head and therefore not giving everyone the attention and time that they deserve. Um, and so be careful how fast you grow. Um, and I think it's also a matter of making sure that your staff has enough of a work-life balance that they're bringing their best everyday, that you're not [00:40:00] overwhelming people for the sake of just more, more business, more projects.
Dan Ryan: It's reminding me of the conversation earlier, when it's, when you're defining your core demographic or psychographic, as far as who a customer is, oftentimes it's scary to say no to a whole bunch of paying customers, but oftentimes that focused. Pays such huge
Brigette Breitenbach: dividends. Um, our biggest plant ever, which I won't name, um, had us come on board and after doing their branding work and their website asked us to stand board and do all their marketing.
And it was a ton of work. It was the biggest client we had ever had, but it required that I had to staff up. And after a while, Everyone was just so burned out by this project and this client that I ended up, um, resigning it. [00:41:00] And I just knew that it was inherently changing my company. And, um, so we walked away from that piece of business and what it did in six months, it kind of opened us up to being available, to do a whole bunch of other things that were really more in line with who we are and what we.
So I think it's just kind of a good reminder. Like, don't be afraid to just say no in business.
Dan Ryan: It's interesting. It's I've heard you say trying to help people figure out who and what they are. They're trying to define, but it's interesting. The struggles that we have.
Oh,
Brigette Breitenbach: yeah. Yeah. In fact, we recognized recently we don't even have our own brand book around here. We're like we never finish a project without the development of a brand book. And
Dan Ryan: that is crazy.
Brigette Breitenbach: How's that for an admission. So we're doing our own brand book and, um, and it's a good [00:42:00] process to go through, you know, it, it makes us recognize.
Kind of like, who are we and what do we, what do we say? And what do we really do? Um, so it's been a good gut check for us.
Dan Ryan: I bet that as you develop that for yourself, It's going to only help your pipeline and where you want to go,
but it is amazing how in this idea of hospitality, we're also used to putting everyone else first. Right. And making sure that they're heard and that their needs are accounted for oftentimes at the expense of our own. Yeah.
Brigette Breitenbach: Yeah. That's right.
Dan Ryan: Um, as you think to the future, what's exciting. You most.
Brigette Breitenbach: Um, I, I feel like travel is at a point now where there's a big debate over whether it is something we should be entitled to or something that's like a [00:43:00] privilege.
And within hospitality, I think there's a recognition that there are some people that, that must travel. They must travel for what they. Um, and there are others that place a very high emphasis on travel. But I think this idea of kind of leveling the playing field and making sure that everyone, no matter what their budget is, has the ability to kind of experience different places.
And, um, how do we do that? I mean, I've got one particular client that, uh, is recognizing that, you know, all those super eights around the country that are just sort of dying well, That's a platform for say a two and a half, three star price model for people that want to get out and travel, but they're not going to stay at a four-star hotel.
And yet they also don't want to stay at a very, um, and a very branded property. Um, and so when I think there's a lot of opportunity out there right now [00:44:00] for understanding that we can deliver unique hospitality. At a lower price points. If we just get a little bit more creative and not do the same things that everyone else is doing.
So I think there's an opportunity for that.
Dan Ryan: I think there is too, and I think it's so important. Um, especially after everyone being so hunkered down, we just need to have these collisions and experiences to just keep growing and keep being curious and keep evolving.
Um, okay. So let's pretend you find yourself. You're just about to go into college. You meet yourself, your current, you meets you're going into college self. What advice do you give yourself?
Brigette Breitenbach: Wow, that's a really good question. Um, I would, I would tell myself to slow. I was so all about checking, um, boxes of [00:45:00] completion at that point in my life, you know, that I, I had to get into the right school and then I had to get out in four years and then I had to have at least three internships before I graduated.
And, um, and in the end, no one is on the same timeline and, and I, and I sped through life a lot in my twenties. And I have spent a lot of time now in my fifth. Um, slowing John down and enjoying the small things. And I don't think you need to be my age to start to recognize that that's a good balance.
Dan Ryan: Yeah.
It's amazing how it takes so long for all of us to figure out, figure that out. Yeah.
Brigette Breitenbach: Yeah. That would probably be my best advice, but I don't regret, I wouldn't tell myself to avoid any of the, any of the pitfalls. I think I've thrown a lot from life's pitfalls. I think.
Dan Ryan: What's the most exciting project you're working on now.
Brigette Breitenbach: That's so [00:46:00] hard. That's like picking your, your favorite
Dan Ryan: child. I'm not saying favorite. I'm saying exciting.
Brigette Breitenbach: There are two developments right now that we're working on in Colorado. They're mixed use developments and they are designed specifically with the. Understanding that there is not enough, uh, workforce housing in destination markets. So when you go to places like, you know, Vail and, um, Aspen, all of those places are delivering a level of hospitality because they have staff and those staff members have no place to live.
They have to drive 45 minutes to an article. Um, we have a client that literally has bunk houses for their employees because it's a seasonal operation because there's no place to stay. So I'm really excited about this idea of applying hospitality, branding to [00:47:00] residential developments, um, and working with clients that recognize we've got to figure out how we're going to offer more affordable places to live for people who are not making a lot of.
Dan Ryan: I totally agree. And especially in those destination places where they're delivering service, you go into some of these break rooms and they're terrible. It's like you got to take care of your team and the rest will take care of itself.
Brigette Breitenbach: Yeah. Yeah, I actually, that's very an interesting point when we go into our properties that we're working on, it always interests me where the staff is.
And sometimes the break room is a lot of fun and the best energy, and sometimes it's just the most dismal place you'll never want to go and have your lunch. Um, and it says a lot about. What, how, how you treat the people who are then going to be your representatives to, [00:48:00]
Dan Ryan: we were talking about values before and the pillars, and like figuring out that foundation before you start your work in earnest, I found in all the hotels that I've been to the way you find the companies and the hotels that are most in alignment and truly in alignment with their values are the ones that have.
The break room where they wear their team relaxes, they treat them the same or in some cases better than they would treat their guests.
Brigette Breitenbach: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's very true. I, another question that I like to ask a lot when I go to hotels for the first time is I ask staff members, have you ever stayed here?
Amazing how few say. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing.
Dan Ryan: It goes back to being in the jar, not being able to see the label. And I think that that is a really interesting idea. You know, you hear the term of ladies and gentlemen, serving ladies and gentlemen. Let's give them a chance to be on the [00:49:00] other side of that coin.
I think we could learn so much.
Brigette Breitenbach: I think that's right. Um, I remember trust hospitality used to do, uh, something called work a day in your shoes and the staff members would switch places with someone, uh, in the hotel. So someone might sit in the general manager's office all day. Uh, some someone in sales might make beds all day.
And it was a great way to sort of not cross train because no one was really going to take on those roles, but it was developing an understanding for what other people within your team do every day. You have that appreciation, um, that you would not normally,
Dan Ryan: I think it, uh, my mind I'm just writing down it's it's empathy and listening, but by actually walking in the shoes,
Um, well, [00:50:00] Bridgette, I just want to say thank you so much for the conversation. Um, where can people find you?
Brigette Breitenbach: Oh, my name on, um, LinkedIn, um, just under my name.
Dan Ryan: Um, and we'll have all that in the notes as well, but where else can they find you? And then
Brigette Breitenbach: I'm on Instagram. Um, but it's, it's a very sort of, uh, you're going to get a whole lot of stuff about, um, my kids and, um, the flowers I like.
So it's not very, uh, work driven. Um, and my company website is, uh, uh, BCO branding.com and we sh we share a lot of stuff on. Company be insurgent page. You'll see our personality come through.
Dan Ryan: Great. And, well, what's now I'm curious. What's your favorite flower?
Brigette Breitenbach: What is my favorite flower? A penny of white.
Dan Ryan: And has that been since you were a little person or is it a new, a new love?
Brigette Breitenbach: My [00:51:00] grandmother and then my mother. Peonies in their yard. They had every possible type, including the Japanese peony trees. And those are like, as big as your head. They're just so beautiful, but I'm, I'm a flower buff. So,
Dan Ryan: well, thank you so much for sharing and thank you to our listeners.
I hope this evolve your view on hospitality and how to listen. And. Deliver service to other people. Uh, I sure have learned something from Bridgette today and I hope you did too. And if you did, please share this podcast with your friends. Thank you everyone. And we'll see you next time.