Defining Hospitality

DH - Sebastián Torres-Calderón
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Speaker: [00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.

This podcast is sponsored by Berman Fall Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Today's guest is a professional with an entrepreneurial spirit and a passion for leading hospitality operations. He has over a decade of experience in the industry and previously ran his own event coordination company Tekea. He's a four-time winner of Spain's leading service apartment brand at the World Travel Awards.

He's the Chief Executive Officer at Stay U-nique in Spain. Ladies and [00:01:00] gentlemen, Sebastián Torres-Calderón. Welcome, Sebastián.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Hello, Dan. Thank

you for having me.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: I should say.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Yeah. Yeah. That's perfect.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Uh, and then for tho, for those of you who don't know, he's in Spain currently, but you're originally from Peru. Where in Peru?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Uh, Lima. Lima.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: From Lima. Wonderful. I love Peru. I went there a long time ago and I need to go back. Um, so Sebastián is in the short term rental space as far as. Managing, optimizing, um, and making that experience as seamless as possible for investors, for guests, for owners.

Kind of tying all the stakeholders together in Spain, and there's a lot of headwinds that this industry has, and I want to dig into that, but I'm very, I don't think I've had very many people from the short term rental. Space on the podcast over the past four years, in fact, maybe ever. And I'm very intrigued by it because [00:02:00] hospitality is not necessarily just hotels or restaurants, it's, it's basically experience and experience between people.

So before we get there, um, and digging into that, Sebastián, how do you define hospitality?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Great. Thank you Dan. Uh, I think that when you ask around, uh, to people, which is, uh, the week that they were expecting the most of the year, or, or that, that night out that they are expecting to be with the wife or the friends. It's where they encounter to us, right? Because in hospitality, we touch everything.

We are a restaurant. In, in the, in that tour, you, you booked in the accommodation, the hotel, or a short-term rental, they're staying right. And they are, uh, giving us those precious moment and saying, Hey, please make this a memorable moment. And, and that's a huge responsibility for us. it it's a really serious responsibility.

People are, are taking, uh, more and more serious. There are free time nowadays [00:03:00] and, and, and for me, that's incredible. Having the opportunity to, to take that time and, and make it something that they will remember forever. Uh, and get to do that every day. That's That's amazing.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Hmm. And I would imagine with short term rentals, if you were to make a pie chart of most of the guests or the renters who are entering your, your pool of properties, and just to give an idea of scale, how many apartments do you have in Spain currently?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: We have 420 apartments that it's, uh, if you count, the rooms are nearly a thousand rooms. Uh, and we receive, or we, we, we use 60 check-ins every day, 60 clinics every day. Uh, yeah,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Wow.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: nearly more than a thousand days per month.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Okay. And then if you were to do a a pie chart of the types of guests that are staying, is it. Families, business, um, remote workers, um, di or digital nomads? [00:04:00] Like how, how, what's your distribution of guests?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Depends on the location, I would say, because we are in Barcelona, we're in Cevi, and we are in Malaga. And I would say that in Cevi and Malaga, it's more a vacational, uh, kind of, kind of guest. and then you have our, it's a because you have huge Congress, uh, during the year, like, like the war Congress, that is in March.

That is the, the, the cell phone con, the, the most, uh, big cell phone congress in the world. Uh, so it's huge. And, and then the city's full. Uh, and then the rest of the year you have another good event. Concerts are, are, are getting really big here in Spain. Uh, and then you have the vacational. So I would say it's, it's part-time, vacational part-time. Uh, workers that come through events. I, I would say digital elements more for a temporary estate. So people that are staying more than one month, maybe two month, they want to come to Barona because it's cheaper and because that there is a good weather, there is, [00:05:00] there is just food. Uh, but we are not, uh, we, we did that in the password.

We are not doing that anymore.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Okay. Thank you. So that sets to the stage for a lot of questions I have. So most of the people I talk to are. Architects, designers, owners, developers, um, hotel management companies, project manage people who are building in the hotel space, restaurant space, bar space. Um, oftentimes when we talk about hospitality, it's how do you meet the guest where they are.

But with 420 apartments spread out all over. It's hard to meet the guests where they are because it's all these apartments all over the city. It's not like you're in one structure. Um,

and most of the other conversations that I have with people, it has to do with interpersonal connections. Correct. Um, and sometimes we talk about technology, and technology has a [00:06:00] place, um, within our hospitality industry. I would think that part of the joy of staying in an apartment with a family, and I've done done these before and I've had great experiences, is part of that experience of creating a memorable memory is having it be frictionless and seamless.

I haven't had a lot of conversations about how technology helps do that. I would imagine with all of your properties distributed overall, the cities, you mentioned within Spain, that technology plays a huge role in that memory creating experience. But how do you make that technology feel interpersonal or how do you make that, enhance that experience of hospitality as people come to Spain for extended stays?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Yeah. Uh, good question. Uh, I think technology has or touched a lot of parts, right? [00:07:00] Because we are, now we're gonna talk about guests, but we can talk about the cleaners, right? And how. When you're in a building, it's really easy because a cleaner knows, he knows to do he, he has to do, I dunno, 10 rooms in a day and that's it.

And it's really easy to supervise and everything. if you have, as you said, 300 locations or 400 locations rather around the city, then. You cannot supervise all the apartments, so you are not gonna, sure, you're not gonna make sure the cleaner has done it perfectly or not, right? So, so you start that technology there the, the cleaner, do you, do you prefer keys or not?

And, and, and there is another technology there, right? Because. Nearly all of the apartments we have has remote logs they can operate with their, with their phones, the guests, the cleaner, the maintenance, anyone. So they don't need keys. So that's, that's a checker part for that. And then the cleaners, for example, when they go and they do a cleaning, they need to do, they need to take a lot of pictures and. Upload it to an app. So that app we make sure the standards of cleaners [00:08:00] are, are following. No. So DS is coming and know that it's gonna find an apartment that is perfectly clean. because when you, I think when I, I don't know if that's gonna happen in the future, but I think when you reserve an apartment, now you are, you're kind of doubting, uh, is it gonna be like a picture?

Is this gonna be what I'm expecting?

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: there's, there's always a bit of a surprise, like, Ooh. 'cause there is like, it's not as, um, well in my experience, you stay at a hotel. One of the reasons why I prefer to stay at a hotel. As a business traveler. 'cause if I get in late or my flights are late, I, I want a seamless experience. I don't want surprises when I'm going with my family and we want a bigger place or other families.

We're, we're expecting, okay, maybe the key isn't gonna work. Maybe there's always something with a short term rental. In my experience, I'm not saying with everyone, but how do you minimize and is one of your goals to have that first experience look like the photo.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Because we, we [00:09:00] measure everything. And, and it's like the checkin, right? Are you are saying, uh, maybe the, the Smart Lo isn't working, maybe the wifi is down or the electricity is down and the Smart Lo isn't working. And that has happened to us more, more times that I, that I wanted. But it has happened. But then you start measuring everything.

So how many times this is happening per week and per month, and how can you reduce that number? And the idea is to reach it to zero person. Right? Emergencies are gonna happen, and then you need to be ready if something like that happened. And that is, need to be able to contact us and, and, and we need to be, to attend that in less than an hour or 30 minutes or find a way to, to solve that that's the second part, right?

Do you found a problem? You cannot enter the apartment and then it's gonna take three hours or two hours for someone to come and open the door. Then the experience is ruined.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Yeah. So, uh, one of the things that I, I really love that you just said, and I think a lot of this will unfold in this conversation. Um, you, you said you measure [00:10:00] everything. I, I'm a firm believer that if you're, every business, whether it's short term rentals or you're making furniture, or you're running a design firm has challenges and we're always like obsessive about.

Reducing the challenges and trying to make that experience frictionless. But you can't change, I firmly believe you cannot change anything, a recurring issue unless you measure it. And then if you measure it, like in the case of your keyless entry, it's, is it the door that's failing or the phone app, or is it a battery or is it something else?

Like you have to track and see and then kind of like narrow down all the possible outcomes, um, to do that. And. As a practitioner at your company of EOS or the entrepreneurial operating system, which we'll talk about a little bit long, uh, more later. Um, how many times, like when you first got there in an operational capacity and now your CEO, [00:11:00] what was the failure rate in the beginning and then how has it improved through measuring?

Like, how did you take that one thing? And I'm sure at the heart of that measurement. Improving the guest experience, obviously, I would think. Um, but how has that approved and how did you track it physically?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Perfect. Uh, yeah, we're gonna talk audio e os but we gonna start talking about the scorecard. Right.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Mm-hmm.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: is something, uh, it's a key element of the, of EOS it's, it's, it's the list of KPAs. And actions that you are measuring every week in order to your goals. Right. And when you do it in the leadership team, for now, for me, it has. lower to non effect, but when you do that for all the company, so you make sure every team has a scorecard that they need to follow. So, you know, the maintenance guys has a scorecard of how many tasks or percentage of tasks they say they have gone and in how much time they have, uh, solve an average task.

And then you have the same for the cleaners in what time they're cleaning the apartment. [00:12:00] What is the NPS of of the cleaning rating in Airbnb? And then you have the guest department that also has, which, in how much, in how much time we're solving the, the issues, uh, which is our guest communication rating in Airbnb.

And we measure every, that, every week and every time every, every people in the company is measuring that. Uh, so, so that's why they say when, when you do it in the leadership team, only. Ah, then when you spread around a company and everyone know they have a KPI and they need to accomplish in your individual department, then everything start to making sense because your job is more important. and I could, I can say use the numbers, but we have reduced a lot since we start measuring these things. guest communication, just checking, uh, all of, all of that,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Hmm.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Our ratings are, are, are, I think, are really high for, for the apart, for the amount of the apartments we have. We have been booking an number of trading across all, all our properties of 8.8, uh, which was [00:13:00] 8.4, uh, two years ago. Uh, so, so yeah, I think, I think EOS and score guard help us get in there.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: When you started working at Stay U-nique, the company had already existed and you came in at what? At what level?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Uh, we, we, I started on January, 2020, so two month before COVID, and we had 90 to a hundred apartments. Uh, in that moment, and I came as a customer journey intern. So, uh, I was handling reservation against communication, some check-ins.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Wow. And then. I believe. So for those of you who don't know, um, EOS is based on this book Traction by Gino Wickman. I'm a big proponent of it. Um, and it's the entrepreneurial operating system and it just basically gives a simple framework or operating system for any and all businesses that you can modify that to the U-niqueness of your business.

Um, [00:14:00] so if you started just before COVID, when did you guys explore. Implementing EOS is across your company and, how long did it take for EOS to deliver on your promise of what hospitality means?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Okay. So, uh, when COVID hit, uh, it's a chaos for hospitality, right? It, it's, everything is a mess because we, we went. And it was a mo war Congress in five days and they canceled 'cause it was March and, and we were at occupancy rates of 98%. So all the apartments were, were were full. Uh, and suddenly the next day all the apartments were empty, uh, because everyone leaves, uh, And it was a mess. And then I can tell you after what we did, and, and we pass everyth into Mitch Rentals, uh, in order to, uh, keep, keep the owners happy, right? Or, or [00:15:00] keep the owners loyal to us because we, the, the, fact that. The other companies what they did, right? They, they closed, they say the owner, sorry, there's nothing I can do.

There's COVID in the middle. And, and, and the owners were left handed with apartments empty and no, no income at all. Right? So what we say is we're gonna pass everyth everything to midterm and then we're gonna keep paying the owners the money that we receive. We're gonna keep everything, anything, we're gonna give everything that we received that it, it wasn't, it wasn't a lot, but we're gonna ha handle a hundred percent to the owners,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Oh wow. So you acted as a pass through just to help the owners stabilize. Oh, wow.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: work for free. and, but that help us a lot because we didn't lose any contract

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Hmm.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Competitors lose their contract. And, and those contracts that the competitor lose, uh, came to us. So

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: you went from a hundred to almost four, so you basically quadrupled in five years.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: think that in that year, post COVID, we, we doubled. So we went to a

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Wow.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: 200. So with double the [00:16:00] operations, we had half of the team, because half of the team were, were already leave because of COVID and everything started to be very blur, right? Because what do we do now? Uh, how do we handle the operations?

How do we grow? Do we one, do we need to grow? And so on. And, and that's what started to happen to companies when they started to grow, right? And that's what we said. We, we need a system. And, and it was a Rick that was the founder that said, uh, I have read this book. I think it was Traction. I, I know an implementer because it has implemented in a, in a company.

So for friend of mine. And, and then we, we meet with him. He's a boss York, uh, he was a German guy. and. Then we, we, because the, the show us a proven process, right? This is, this is what we are gonna do, this is what's gonna happen, and this is what helps John grow. it was very easy to, to see it, uh, to see the future with that.

So we then we [00:17:00] started with VS and we decided, hey, we need to do that. We did it with the implementer for the first two years. so you have a, a one year meeting and then you divide a year in quarters and you have a meeting every quarters. You set up goals And

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: And was it just for the executive team or did you do it for departments as well?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Uh, first you do it for the executive team, so the leadership team in, in eo s uh, in, in EOS vocabulary per se. And, and then it's of every manager to take that to their teams and to their teams if they have them.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Wonderful. And then over the course of that two years and you, you're starting to measure everything and you're building out your score scoreboard. Scorecard for your executive team and then all the departments. You said something a couple minutes ago where the scorecard is not as important for the executive team as it is for all the departments, but in my experience, you have to kind of like cast this wide net to start measuring as many things as you can, [00:18:00] but then narrow it down to like five to 15 of the most important KPIs for leadership team, for operations, sales, finance.

How long did it take you to really. Develop those, score those scorecards for your leadership team and then everything else.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: there's a say they ineos, they, they used to to make is that, uh, imagine if you are the owner of the company and you are a Strat in an Iceland they can only give you a piece of paper with 10, like you say, fif 50 to 15 measurements, and you're gonna say you are gonna, you are gonna have that table week, and you're gonna have anything else, no phone or nothing. you be able to see if the company is going okay or not? Then that's a measurements unit.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Hmm.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: And that's what we, we, we try to, to think, right? And the score is funny because you can put KPIs there that are result based. But what the EEO s want you to do, it's that you put action [00:19:00] based KPIs. it's not, uh, so it's not how many sales we have closed this week, it's how many cold calls I have done in order to close that amount of sales. So if I need to do 500 calls, then have I done the 500 calls that is in my threshold in order to, I dunno, achieve the X amount of sales that I

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: So in effect, it's a leading indicator. Each of those is a leading indicator.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: yeah. Act, yeah. Action base is what they say,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Yeah. Hmm. And then as these developed, as, as your EOS scorecards develop by department, how long. And what were the, what were the measurements that you saw the biggest increase in your net promoter score From? From the guest experience perspective?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Um, I think there were two, two kind of things because the, yeah, it, it's true that you have the scorecard, it's really important. Uh, but then you [00:20:00] also have the rocks right on the project. so you set up goals for the year and then, but. First you set up goal for 10 years

and this is really high level, and you say, where I'm where I wanna be in 10 years.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Really visionary, like long-term vision. You're in the vision space that where do we all want to be in 10 years? And then you back into, what is it, three year and then one year?

Mm-hmm.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: three years. And then you go to one year and then you go to quarters. if you say, I'm gonna, I want to be here in three years, then you said, okay, then in one year I need to do this in order to be there in three years. And those year goals, then in theory, you break it into four, uh, four liter project that are. The big project that you're gonna end at the end, right? Uh,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: And those are the rocks.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: those are the rocks that you divide into quarters, and it's every 90 days. So what's the most important things that we need to attack in the next 90 days in order to accomplish our goals? That's the constant mindset. Right?

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: And then I just [00:21:00] wanna, I, I wanna fill everyone up. The, the reason why I believe they're called rocks is because if you imagine having an empty glass or a vase and you have sand pebbles, which are your day-to-day, just, this is what I have to do to keep the, the bus moving in the right direction. Those things are gonna keep happening.

But to really move the company forward and get to your long-term vision, you have to do these larger rocks. So in, in that vase, you put a rock in there, it's harder to do, but you get it in there. And then all the little sand things, if you make space for that rock, when you sprinkle all the little sand in there, it's gonna find its way in there around the rock, but you're still gonna get everything done, and then you're gonna bend the arc of the company towards your long-term vision.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: And the, and the beauty of that is that, uh, I, this is what I'm saying. When you do only for the leadership team, it's fine. The impact is good, but when you do it across a team, the impact is huge. Because if you think about it, every person in our company has [00:22:00] one rock, one to two rocks. So if we are 70 people, we're doing a hundred projects every few months that are getting the company better. So every 90 days we have another company.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Yeah.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: A much,

better one and every 19 days is gonna happen the same. What are the issues? are problems we're having? Why are we not achieving our goals? What do we need to do that? And then we go back again. Uh, that the impact of that is amazing. We have done, I dunno, 500 projects, 600 projects, and we started.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: That's pretty amazing and it all is a way to help Been to your long-term vision and I mean, it's been instrumental in a lot of the things that I've done in my life, um, and I'm a huge proponent of it. Um, you mentioned the implementer that you found. Um, would you ever try implementing this on your own or do you recommend getting a coach?

Did you try to implement it on your own or did you always have a coach or an implementer that that was there to give you the structure and the support to get it done?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: [00:23:00] mean, after two years, we said, uh, we already know the system and everything. So we, we do the quarterly meetings and the year meetings Now by our own, we decide who in our team is gonna be the implementer, so who's gonna direct the meeting because you need that. but once you have the materials, because they, they give you a lot of materials and, and you don't want the methodology, I think you can implement it at the beginning.

I don't recommend to. Uh, because there is a lot of data and backgrounds and, and examples and. Especially how to move the meeting forward,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Hmm.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: this is a meeting in which people, people like to talk. So people like to talk and go on and very high level and, and start discussing and so on. And the meeting is really strict about that.

It's a no, this is not time for us. It's time to decide the rocks, the issues, and go on. it's really straightforward and if you don't have an implementer to help you being the bad guy and, and, and put that time, uh,

it, it's a mess. Uh, it, it's not gonna work.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Wow. [00:24:00] Um, yeah, so for all your listeners, I'll put a link to that book, traction in the, in the show notes. I think I've, I've done it before, but it's, it's pretty awesome and it just helps with everything and it's, it's a, a very Socratic, the book's done in a very Socratic way. Like it's a real life or quote, real life experience, but you're like seeing it through the eyes of people having these challenges and how they work through it, and it's pretty great.

Okay, so now going.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: one that is, uh,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: What's that?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: what,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Oh, yeah, that's like the, the, the white paper. The shorter form version.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: I would say read. Read both if you

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Okay.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: it.

Speaker 2: Hey, everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability, and I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor, Berman Fall Hospitality Group is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more [00:25:00] info.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Um, okay, so now going back to hospitality and creating those lasting memories. While you've been on your journey, you're now promoted to CEO, um.

What is your long-term vision as far as the number of properties you have, the way that you help create these lasting memories for all of your guests that want, that are using stay U-nique, how does, how does that, how does that tie in together?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: I can tell you in the US language. So our 10 year goal is to create one mini, 1 million memorable moment, and that's to everyone we touch, right? It's our, it's to our guests, to our owners, uh, employees, providers, everything we touch

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: So internal and external,

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Yeah.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: and not just guesting, it's everyone. Wow.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: No, it's everyone. Yeah. It's the cleaner is the maintenance guy, is the case that is staying with us.

Everyone. We, we should be the, what we wanna accomplish is that [00:26:00] everyone in in our team is thinking all the time, how can we create a memorable moment for someone? And, and that's for everyone. Uh, it's not only focused. To do that? I think, well, no, I don't, I don't think we, our, our long or our three year goal is to have a thousand apartments or managing a fou a thousand apartments in three years. And that could, that, that has changed, right? Because. And we can talk about regulations, but a year ago we changed the strategy a little bit. We were, uh, kind of divided in the portfolio into entire buildings and, and, and, and apartments by, by themself in, in residential buildings. And now we have changed to focus only on entire buildings because we think, uh, it's gonna be less painful politically wise in the future for us. And it's gonna be a healthy strategy to growth.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: So you're almost evolving more into [00:27:00] a, a hotel, really in essence, if you have the whole building, but there's still apartments within there, which allows you to keep materials and sheets and cleaning and everything in there, and have scale within the building.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: We, we are operators

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Yeah,

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: we, we we think we can operate anything. Uh. that's a fine line. I would say operating a, a, we, I'm, I'm right now in our offices that is, uh, downstairs of, uh, 32 apartments building in the city center of Barona. so I think if we can operate this, uh, we can operate any hotel in urban cities.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: and then so. The 10 year vision is to create a million. And is that your bhag? The big, hairy, audacious goal is to have a million memorable experiences.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Yes, and we change it because we had a lot of things there. We had things related to EBITDA and things related to number of properties and so on, and, and, and we changed it last year to what's, what's [00:28:00] what we really want, what, why we created this company, or why the founder Enrique created this company.

Uh

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: And that's also really, that's also really important for everyone to know is you can have these 10 year goals. The odds of the 10 year thing happening, I would say, is. Less than 30%. Right? It could be, it could be higher, but it's also important to understand that whatever the reason you have a 10 year goal and get really clear on that 10 year goal is because it cascades down into everything else, right?

And then every year you reevaluate what your 10 year goal is to get to the, your three year goal of getting, of basically doubling or tripling almost. Two and a having in size right. Between now and three years from now, what are your biggest challenges that you're seeing as you're trying to create these memorable experiences that are frictionless and that you know that it's, it's way [00:29:00] more good's bad.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: There, there are two challenges, right? The, the first one, the first one is in, in growth, in, in portfolio, uh, because there are two ways you can handle this growth, uh, or there are two ways our business model works. You have the variable rent in which you charge a percentage of the. Of the income of the property, there's normally between 15 and 25%, and then you have the fixed rent, uh, apartments or buildings that it's more common in hotels, for example, it's in which I rent this building or I rent this property and whatever I get from there, then it, then it's fine.

It's a, it's a fixed rent lease and it's a five year or, or 10 year contract. So there, there you have a, a, a challenge to growth, right? Because, uh, the, the best buildings, uh, are the ones that are more expensive. So anyone wants to pay that and are reducing their margin in order to get that building. So you need to compete with that and, and it, it's [00:30:00] difficult. and in the other part in the operations is that. The more you grow, of course the operations become more complex. It's not the same doing, I dunno, 60 checkouts per day than 120. and, and then you need to decide, for example, we're opening in se we're opening in Malaga, we're checking to open Madrid. Are you gonna have local teams? Are you gonna centralize everyth within Barcelona? How are you gonna do it? We have also an international team. Uh. So, so yeah, the operations become more complex. You need to have a good system at OPMS, uh, revenue management, for example. You have, you need to have the tools, also the data, uh, smart revenue te technology is gonna help the chatbots, for example, is it too much chatbot?

Is, is it too less chatbot? Uh, which is the middle point? How do you train the chatbot? So it's the best chatbot of the short term companies.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: When do you get a human to intervene for a chat bot? That's another, that's a great question. [00:31:00] Like as it is now, if people are chatting to just get the FAQs done and like tap into some kind of large language model that you've built for yourselves of all the normal back and forth and FAQs, um, at what point does a human interject.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Again, I think you need to measure and, and, and you need to keep changing little things. That's, that's something that, that we have tried not to, to do, right? To die in the bureaucracy of everything, so we change things all day. Let's, let's try something new and then let's measure how it was the case communication improve or it went lower.

So you change it again. And if we make a mistake, doesn't, nothing happens, let's change it again. And we get changing things and then measuring, it's going up, if it's going down, and then until we find the correct measure and, and then we said, okay, this is working. Let's move to something else.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: And then putting my furniture hat on, like just thinking of those large city block style apartments in Barcelona, [00:32:00] do you own any of those large, like. City block apartments, or are they more just a building?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Yeah, it is. It's not entirely, it, it seems like it is, but it, there are different buildings in

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Okay. So there's different buildings

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Yeah.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: as you grow from individual apartments. To doing more of these individual buildings in the individual buildings. How many apartments are in the individual buildings? Typically just use Barcelona as an example,

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: I think we turn 20 and 40.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: between 20 and 40. And then when you have a long-term contract over managing those 20 to 40, how do you approach the furniture and the fixtures and the equipment within those? Apartments. Do you standardize them in the building and then across portfolio so that you can create some economies of scale and standardization, or do you keep them all U-nique and different?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Yeah. What we're checking now is that normally when we receive a, a building, uh, there, there is two options, [00:33:00] right? And our own, in Spain, there is an, there's a conversion from office space to, to apartments to short-term rental apartment, or, uh, you have a land that it's been under construction for a new building apartment because investors are looking more into the, the residential. Uh, sector of, of apartments in Spain. It's been under a lot of regulations, so, and it is not given the numbers that, that anyone

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Mm-hmm.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: so, so people are looking to put their money into. Hotels or apartments to, to rent in the short term rental. when we have a new building or a right conversion from an office to a building, then we send a, uh, a design team.

And then normally what is in the contract is that this is a 10 year contract, so we take care of that equipment and the furniture of the property. so we put everything there. They, they leave the apartment empty, but in very good conditions because it's not by new. Then we put everything, [00:34:00] uh, inside which center designer, and we try to do it. We, we do two things. One is we take risks because we think that the apartment that you are staying for free nights is not the same as the apartment you are staying for your whole life. So maybe for your whole life you want something more quiet, something more neutral. And I dunno if you're staying three days, you want something bold.

Uh, so we try to take a risk in that. And then, uh. Of course, very good quality approach that, uh, last long. and then, yeah, very similar. So we can try the apartment or the building as a multi-unit building. So if you book this one, you may get this one. So revenue, revenue management wise is much more profitable.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Interesting. Um, and then have you, I guess you, you've been there for six years, so you haven't seen a full tenure year contract come to an end,

right? Or maybe there's some tenure year contracts were in place before you started, but [00:35:00] I would assume that you'd want those tenure contracts when they do come to an end to Reconvert.

And when that does happen, do you look at. Renovating or repositioning the whole, whole hotel or refresh. How do you look at refreshing these within a building and then across your portfolio, like are there any standard, um, things from operating supplies to furniture that you've tied throughout your properties or would like to tie throughout your properties over the long term?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Nor normally those, those negotiations comes with our renovation. Right. Okay. So I'm gonna make a renovation in the property. I cannot make it when, when there is one year less of a contract,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Mm-hmm.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: we need to renew it. And normally that renew it also come with an increase of the rent. So we need to make the numbers again and say, is this gonna be profitable or not?

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: And you're asking the owners to do the renovation? Correct.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: No,

we are doing the renovation, uh, in exchange of, uh, renewal of that, of that [00:36:00] 10 year lease.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Oh, interesting.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: 10 year and I do a renovation of the property.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Of ev of all the units within the property.

Oh, wow.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: If we have not done it before, because normally 10 years is too much. We, we, we take in consideration that the furniture normally. years and it's, it's too old and then we need to change it. So we keep making changes because we do supervisions. Uh, we have a team of supervisions that constantly go to the apartments, out what is wrong or what is not in a good condition, and then they create the task for the design team, and the design team goes and change that specific thing. So we keep the apartments fresh every time

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: with the scale that you're at, you have an internal design team or do you, do you use third party interior designers and architects? Mm-hmm.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: have done both. Uh, but, uh, money wise, we have decided that it's much better to have an internal team, that it renovating. I we're launching 12 apartments per, per month now, uh, [00:37:00] or 10 apartments per month now. So doing that with an external team, we do externalize part of the maintenance. For example, when we. Have, uh, we have to do a building, right? Then we send, we, we do the shopping and also shoppings goes to the external provider that has an storage and those guys are gonna store everything that we have buy, and then they are gonna translate it to the apartments so they can, uh, assembled all the pieces and all the furniture. So these guys are dedicated to store whatever thing we buy. And then to put everything together in the apartment as we say they should. so makes that we don't need to have a storage and we don't have to have a lot of maintenance guys that are in same, in semi pieces.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: And I'm sure as you grow from 420 to a thousand to 10,000, each level of growth. You're constantly having to look inward to see how are we managing the best? Do we do this insides, [00:38:00] do we outsource it? Um, I'm curious to have 420 apartments under your, in your portfolio and, and as you continue to grow, how many other companies like yourself that are short, short-term property management companies, maybe not as sophisticated as you, but how many other.

Of yours exist in Spain at that level of, let's say 300 or more apartments.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: I wouldn't, I wouldn't say too much. I would say maybe, maybe three or four big players per city.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Wow.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: and then it's very squatted or there's a lot of people that is managing five to to six apartments

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: There's probably hundreds of them.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Yeah. They don't even have a company. They're just, uh, freelancers that say, I have five apartments and it, it's getting fine. It's not so complex, and I prefer to stay like this.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: But some owners may prefer to have that [00:39:00] hands-on from that independent freelance manager who's like fully focused on that. Like how do you manage those expectations or find those clients that see the value in having a working with a much bigger company.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Uh, in two sense, I think that the first one is security. When you are pitching for a building, uh, those competitors are gone. Because they, they are not gonna enter there. It's impossible. They cannot compete. then, uh, security that, that we are a stable company and that we're gonna, we're not gonna lift you handed in case of COVID or things like that. And the other one is the tools that we are able to implement. For example, bet, uh, a person that has a five, uh. Uh, that has five apartments, doesn't have a revenue manager. Uh, we have six people in the revenue management team that are checking at that how we can sell at the higher price, uh, every day.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Hmm.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Impossible for a, for a com, for a short price, uh, a short operator.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Okay. Now, 'cause this is all [00:40:00] fascinating to me as like, I don't really know anything about this space, so you're satisfying my curiosity. Um, if you were to say, within Europe, how many short-term rental companies exist that have 300 or more units under their umbrella?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: You have to be. You have since 2010 you have. Three, I would say three to five very huge competitors that has, that are trying to eat the market. you have Numa, you have, uh, lime home, uh, gets ready. So we are talking about 2000 units, 3000 units.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: If each of those three to five co competitors

wow.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: had thunder. Uh, you had thunder at the beginning.

You had Basa that were different,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: But I haven't heard anything about Sonder recently.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Well, they, they, they, they went broke and they become partners of Marriott. So Marriott took

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Uh oh. So [00:41:00] that's a, I missed that whole memo 'cause I don't pay attention to space. So, is that the new Sonder became apartments by Marriott.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: no, Sonder OT a, a, um, a brand of Marriott. So you have

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Oh.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: by Marriott, but you also have Sonder in their Marriott portfolio.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: I had no idea.

See what happens when you don't pay attention to things. Okay?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: these huge companies. I think that's, that's the idea They're gonna get both sooner or later.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: okay, so take the huge ones who are multi-thousand. Let's go back to that. Let's say 300 to a thousand units. How many competitors do you have in Europe?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: I would say you can take 20 per country.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: uh, 700 or so. I would say 500 to 700.

I missed zero there.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: that Spain, it, it's receiving, 80 to a hundred million tourists a year. So

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Wow.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: big market. Uh, and 30% of tourists are coming to short term rentals apartments.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: But I would say that the, okay, so the, this, let's say upper mid scale of [00:42:00] size for short term apartment rental companies like yourself would stay U-nique globally. They didn't really exist 15 years ago. Right?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: No.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: they exist 10 years ago?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Yeah,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: They started 10. Like you started to see them maybe 10 years ago.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: yeah, we, we were one of the first in Spain for sure,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Wow. Okay. So now what I want to get into with that, like, to me it's like a really evolving and fast growing industry that the normal hotel industry ceases as a threat, right? And also city councils and member and like politicians and I read about it, oh, like Airbnbs are killing or driving up, um, just regular long-term rental costs for residences, but.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Yeah.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: As, as big as this and as fast as this growing segment is, there have to, it has to be such a small amount of actual places to [00:43:00] live in a city, like in Barcelona. I don't know how, how many short-term rentals there are, but I, I would imagine that there's 10 or a hundred or a thousand, I don't even know, more actual regular apartments.

So is a lot of this. I don't know what to call it, bluster or negative press that short term rentals get, is it just politics by the bigger guys, like the bigger traditional hospitality players that are, are trying to like stifle the growth of you? Because I, I don't know. I'm sure there's a balance, but just I, I have no idea.

Give us some framework here, some perspective.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Perfect. So for example, in Barcelona we have, uh, Barcelona was one of the first markets that that. That cultural regulation, uh, 10 years ago. So in 2014, they say there's gonna be 10,000 licenses in Barcelona, that it's 1% of the housing market of Barcelona, and that's it. We're not gonna give any other license,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: And that's still the case. Only 10,000. [00:44:00]

Oh, no kidding. So there's a cap.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: but.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: That's a, that's a good point, right? Because you, you, you cut the amount of licenses that grown since 2014 and you said that's, that's it. But the prices in persona has keeping pricing from there. And then you have the case of New York that it was the same, you had 1% of short term rentals and then New York decided to No, we're gonna ban all of the sector. Uh, and then if you ask half prices in New York has gone down. No, they have gone, they have keep going up. What they have gone up is the prices of hotels in New York. It's 15% in the A DR, which is crazy.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Wow.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: so I don't think this, this is a solution. I think that, I think you need to get rid of the illegal market because yeah, you shouldn't not be able to rent this if you don't have a license and you need to be strict with that. Uh, but we are in favor of the regulations because it makes the sector more professionalized and everything is

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: You're, you're in favor of the regulation, but [00:45:00] not necessarily the restriction of 1% of apartments.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Regulation. Okay. Prohibition, no,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Ah, okay.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: a provision I think is never good

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: so you must be struggling with this, with all of your markets that you're in. How do you see, like if you look forward to the next 10 years, so 2035, let's just say, is there still a cap or is there still a prohibition or has it been released? Relaxed. Like I, I, for me, I think one of the solutions is just add more inventory.

Because that draws prices down. But I feel like there's a lot of protected interests, whether they're real estate developers or hotels or just homeowners. They don't want more inventory to come in because it could potentially lower their value of their investment or home. But it's kind of counterintuitive because if you really want a lower price of housing, which is an issue [00:46:00] everywhere, you should just build more inventory.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: That's exactly what we see in Spain. But uh, in Spain, since the housing crisis in 2008, the the level of construction has keep going down because people didn't want to enter in that market because they were scared and, and first and second, the politicians weren't making it any easier. So. So the, at least in Spain, the, the politicians know that they, they need the help of the private sector in order to grow the inventory. they just don't wanna work together. So it's easier to say the narrative and to put the narrative in, in people's minds of Airbnb is killing. Uh, the chances of people to leave in, in, in, in a good way or it's increasing their prices, uh, but they know there's, this is not gonna solve anything. They may get them to get elected in the, the next elections because when you say the name, Airbnb and Prohibition, I don't know why, but everyone goes, Christian, say, great, this is [00:47:00] gonna, this is gonna help.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: It doesn't help. You need to build more inventory of everything.

Hmm.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Yes.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Okay, so if it's 10 years in the future, it's 2035, you're, you're delivering a million memorable experiences, both internally and externally to your guests and other stakeholders around how does this dislocation or misunderstanding of prohibition versus regulation like.

What's a solution there? Like what, what would be a great outcome if you were to manifest this 10 years in the future?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: What I would. I would say to in two different parts, right? First from the city or from the, from the country. What I, what I wanted to see, I'm not from here, I'm from, from another place, uh, from Peru. Uh, but I have lived here from Lala past six years. And, and if I want a desire for this country is that the private sector and the public sector gets together and, and start making plants and say, Hey, how [00:48:00] can I help you?

Instead of. Making the, the sector more regulated and more complicated to enter is how can I make it easier for you in order? So you want to construct more. A private sector doesn't want to add more inventory because the regulations are crazy, so they prefer to go into another. This is, this is all business and this is what we need to understand because if not, I want somewhere else where I can make more money. and in the second part, for the company or for we, I hope that in 10 years we are, as we said, we are operators and we're managing everything. So we're managing more buildings of apartments, we're managing hotels, and, and we have become a, uh. A brand, a recognized brand for accommodation in, in, in Europe and primarily in Spain.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: And then for the people that wanna prohibit. Not the politicians who are using it as a way to get elected, because it like people can really, it's like demagoguery, like people can say, oh yeah, it's Airbnbs or short-term [00:49:00] rentals that are ruining this. Um, what do you say to the politicians about, like, if you could say, if I gave you a magic wand and you can be like, guys, you gotta stop with this because here's this.

The private and the public sector have gone together and here's a good outcome. Like how do you get to change their hearts and minds that 1% is not enough and we need to build more inventory.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: I dunno, because they know the data. That's, that's what is scary. That's what, that's what's the most scariest for me.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Hmm.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: have the data, they have everything. know it, and they don't want to do it. So the, it's really scary. I, I think the system is not working.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: And it's not just in Spain, it's everywhere.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: We have done something wrong and the system is not working. Uh, I dunno. Why? What? Because I'm too young. Uh, but you should know more than me. there's

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: am older,

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: not,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: but not necessarily wiser, definitely older. Hmm. Yeah, it [00:50:00] just seems amazing to me. It just seems like Bilmore sensibly. Like, don't overextend yourself. There's a balance where all types of real estate can come on the market. That could make it more affordable for young people to buy homes and buy apartments or rent in cheaper apartments, or do whatever they wanna do now.

It's like, I feel like so many people, especially the youth, the young, are being left in the dust.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: It's harder to get a home. It's harder to rent something. It's harder to get a property. Uh,

because yeah, because you have, uh, properties has become a rural, has been for all the time, uh, uh, a sector in which people put their money in investing so. Uh, but for example, I'll give you an example of Barcelona, right?

And, and how you can help the, the, this, the private sector to work in Barcelona. Right now you have a regulation that if you want to construct a building, you need to, uh, give 30% of [00:51:00] that building into, uh, VPO. We, we call them. It's a, a protection

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Like a, uh, affordable housing or something like that.

Under market or something. Yeah.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: So it, if I'm saying, if you are, if you're selling a hundred huts and then I'm saying to you, you need to sell 30 of those at your, at cost.

At cost, what's gonna happen then? I need to sell all the other ones much higher

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Yeah.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: In order to be profitable. Or I don't want to construct here and I go to Madrid, or I go to uh, Lisbon or to Rome or to whatever. So, and that's just one tiny example of something that you could take out and people will start contracting, but it's more, it's every day it's an, an, a new regulation.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Hmm. Yeah, it seems like that's a doom loop for just continued high housing costs.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Yeah. That's why I don't understand it, because it's so easy to, to look at it, but,

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Yeah. I'm very curious about [00:52:00] this. Okay, so now going back to like your origins and being in Peru and having an events business. Um, and now you're the CEO of this fast growing, impactful short-term rental business. If you could go back to your younger self before you came to Spain, what advice do you have for yourself?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Be patients. I think, uh, I think people of my generation and young people are not patients and they want all this success and everything for tomorrow and they get out of university and and say, uh, then I need to earn this amount of money and I need to be tomorrow. It's on. And that doesn't happen. Uh, there's years of air effort and years of hard work and. And, and I haven't been so patient. I built a business when I was, I don't know, 22 and I wanted to have a lot of things, another one, but when I started to be patients and I, and I said, if I do the hard things and if I, [00:53:00] if I, if I do the hard work, results are gonna clean. and it just has been that the key, I think hard working, patience.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: I love it. Um, Sebastián, this has been really in like satisfying to me because I'm learning something about I know nothing about, and. I love that you're working within the framework of EOS and I appreciate just seeing how it's such a flexible system and also applied to hospitality and creating frictionless experiences for guests and stakeholders and, um, yeah, it's just something I don't know about, so I'm just thank you for letting me learn and I, I appreciate it.

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Thanks to you and I hope this has been amazing.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: And, uh, you're most welcome. Um, if people wanted to learn more about you or stay U-nique, what's a good way for them to do that?

sebastian_1_08-13-2025_201951: Uh, just, uh, add me on LinkedIn. Uh, that that will great. Or if [00:54:00] you want, you can also go to our website that is stay U-nique. this, and, uh, if you want to invest in the short term rental in Spain, uh, we, I think we're the, the best partner for.

dan-ryan--he-him-_1_08-13-2025_141953: Awesome. Fantastic. Um, and thank you to all of our listeners because without you, I wouldn't be able to talk to people like s and learn from them about things I don't know much about. And then hopefully this impacted your ideas and feelings on what hospitality is and housing and, um, constant improvement and being obsessive about constant improvement.

Um, and if it has, thank you. And if you think someone else could benefit from listening to this, please pass it along. We grow by word of mouth and don't forget to like, and subscribe and leave comments. It makes a big difference. I think we're a top 50 design podcasts on Apple podcasts. Um. It would be great to advance even more.

So just leave comments in in your favorite listening platform, like subscribe, and all those things, [00:55:00] and we'll catch you next time. Thank you.