Defining Hospitality

DH - Harzali Hashim
===

Speaker: [00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.

This podcast is sponsored by Berman Fall Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.

Speaker 3: Aloha. Today's guest is a skilled engineer within our hospitality industry. He's a passionate leader in sustainable and green engineering with experience in developing lead certified properties. He has over 20 years of experience working within hotel and resort engineering at companies of the likes of.

Marriott International and Kea Hotels and Resorts. He is the complex director of engineering at Kea [00:01:00] Hotels and Resorts in Honolulu. Ladies and gentlemen, Harzali Hashim.

Harzali&DanAudio: Welcome Harzali.

Thank you, Dan. It's so good to be here.

It's good to be here. Good to be here with you in Hawaii. And yes, and for those of you who don't know, we are sitting here.

Atop the Sheraton Waikiki.

Um, if you're watching on YouTube, you can see Diamond Head behind us. It's pretty magnificent.

And um,

I think the first time I met you Harzali

was probably 15 years ago.

Yeah, I would,

it was so way back when we first were working on the Mortar Surf Rider project. And you were only working

at the Moana Surf Rider, correct?

Correct. You were the director of engineering there, correct? Correct. Just overseeing the Moana at that time. And since that point, you're overseeing this massive complex of.

1, 2, 3, 4 hotels. Uh, actually six hotels. Six, yeah. We had the, we had the four here in Waikiki. We had the Sheraton, Maui, and then we had the palace in San Francisco.

So six properties that Kyo-yah owns. Six properties. Okay. And so you're actually overseeing San Francisco too, so mainland, [00:02:00] correct. Oh, no kidding. Yeah.

And

one of the things I'm most struck by,

because these,

at least here in Waikiki, most of the hotels are very close to each other, if not bordering. Mm-hmm.

But one of the things I can tell

is just the level of care and attention to detail you and your a hundred plus engineers across the complex, at least here in Waikiki,

pay to the attention to the de detail on main maintenance.

Because

when I walk in here, this, you guys have owned this since the seventies. Mm-hmm. Early seventies. Mm-hmm. Right.

It's been

built, I don't know when it was built.

Uh, I think the shewan key key was built, uh, started in 68, so it got, got finished in 71, and, and that's when, uh, ke

owned the hotel. So,

uh, a lot of the other properties, like we have the mo surf rider that was built in 1901.

Wow. Uh, the first, the first phase there of, of the mo.

That's 125 years old. We have the Royal, which in a couple of years is gonna be a hundred years [00:03:00] old.

And then the palace in San Francisco is 150 years old. Wow. So we have some,

we have some properties with, with some age to them, but, uh, our team and our ownership group

commit to holding the properties and making them look their best.

And they really do. And I can say there's many hotel companies out there. There's different, a whole spectrum of hotel

ownership groups. Mm-hmm.

Some of which are buying and repositioning and flipping. So on a spectrum,

and they might go for that lipstick on a pig sort of thing.

And then on the other side, at the other end of spectrum, I would say there's people like you and Kyo-yah where just from, I assume the top down,

the level of maintenance, but also keeping everything fresh.

But once the renovation happens,

the, the level of maintenance and a attention to detail is not just with you, engineering and housekeeping. I, I get the feeling it's everyone in the entire property. It's, it's true. I mean, Q Ke really want the

hotels to look their best as they come outta renovation, but knowing that they are [00:04:00] putting in, uh, significant

funding into a project more so than, than some other people may, may do.

Mm.

Uh, they want to make sure that.

The, the hotel is being maintained by

engineering, my housekeeping, by all the other associates that work within the hotel so that they can keep it looking. Its best for years to come.

And

in the beginning of each of these podcasts, I ask everyone

how you define hospitality or what does hospitality mean to you?

But I'm sure

that from Kyia as a large organization mm-hmm. To your definition of hospitality, it must

closely align.

As, as well as with everyone else throughout all the properties. So tell me about your feelings on hospitality and how that

super,

kind of, the overarching idea of it applies to you, all of your teams, but also Kyia as a,

as a parent company.

I mean, when I started 20 years ago, I didn't really think.

I didn't really think much of hospitality in terms of [00:05:00] what it meant to me. Mm-hmm.

Uh, 20 years later,

uh, being in the industry for so long, I, I really look at hospitality as

us creating experiences for our guests, especially here in Hawaii. We

are very isolated island.

People spend a lot of money to come here, whether it be airfare or, or to say, at one of our beautiful properties. So we want to create that experience and that experience is created through the environment that we, we give them, we produce for them, and then also the service that our associates provide to them.

So that creates these memories.

It creates, uh, an escape for them from their normal everyday.

I mean, you think if you live somewhere in the middle of the US

and you're now coming to this tropical destination, whereas you can see out the windows, you have these beautiful mountains, you have the ocean. It's something that's very different to where you're from.

So we wanna make sure we are creating those experiences

and not just the natural environment, but also

within,

with the hotel rooms that they stay at, the public areas that we have at [00:06:00] our properties, the landscaping, the pools that we provide to them. And then.

Piggyback on top of that with the

experience, the service that the guests provide to them,

which helps,

uh, guests if they're, if they are able to do so, keep coming back again and again.

Love it. And

yeah, and I absolutely feel that here. And it's also interesting because

we we're in the middle of Y Kiki, there's thousands and thousands of rooms here and it's really, there's not so much.

Of a natural beauty in the sense that like there's a park over there, but it's like you're in a city pretty much.

Mm-hmm. Right. It's very dense. You have diamond head over there.

But I do get the feeling of just the serenity and calmness when I go from this property, which has 1600 rooms. Mm-hmm.

C0315: To

Harzali&DanAudio: the royal,

to the west Ana, and then the hala kalani's there, which is not part of you. But again, it's like this vibe of serenity in a very bustling.

Place. Yeah,

and, and that's one of the things I realized when I first started at the Moana.[00:07:00]

You have busy color, color avenue with.

C0315: with.

Harzali&DanAudio: 5, 3, 4 lanes of traffic

going by. So you come in, you arrive in the portico share. It's very noisy. There's a lot of stuff going around, people grabbing luggage. You walk in, one Uber driver was beeping.

Yeah, get out of the way.

You walk into the lobby, it starts calming down a little bit, but you can still hear the street. No noise.

But then as soon as you walk into the Banyan courtyard, all that street noise disappears.

You are there with this huge baan tree that's been there

over a hundred years, over 125 years.

Uh, you have the beach bar there and then you start hearing the waves and you see people on the beach.

All of a sudden you're transformed to, I'm not in a city, I'm in a resort. Mm.

So that's, that's what I always.

Always took me by surprise when I first started working at the, at the Moana and with all our properties, the royal is the same.

It's set back off of K Kawa.

you

go in there, you have these beautiful gardens, you walk into this beautiful historic property and it's, it's, it's really something [00:08:00] to be hold.

So

creating this experience of escape for guests. Mm-hmm. And you've mentioned the Banyan tree.

And for me, I had a very pivotal

moment in my life at the Banyan tree.

Mm-hmm. Under the Banyan tree in.

The Moana Surf Rider

and I, I told, I think I told you about this, right? I think so. I can, so it was, um,

we, when we, I was doing the furniture there. I met with John Staub mm-hmm. Who was the,

the designer at Phil Pot's

And

we had a drink under there after I was awarded it.

And he was telling me how

it's really important to escape and unplug and how he,

twice a year for like a month or something, he would unplug and I started having a panic attack. It's like, how do you do that? And he's like, I have a great team. And

um, I was like, wow. He's like, you should do it. And I was like, there's no way I'm connected 24 7.

I can't get.

Anyway, I had a trip coming up over July 4th

and

he said, well, why not just take that one week and don't touch your phone or computer?[00:09:00]

I said, really?

So

I went with my family to New Hampshire. I didn't touch my phone or computer. I woke up on a Wednesday,

complete panic attack,

but I breathed through it and.

Then every year I'd done it since then, until the pandemic. Now I do it in

smaller bursts. Mm-hmm.

But

it was, it time slowed down for me. Right. So I had this incredible escape from that property

and from John's experience. And then I sent him all these letter, like I sent him a postcard.

I handwritten one and I, when I

plugged back in, I emailed him,

no response.

And then, uh,

I came to Honolulu in that August. So it was July to August. And then I heard he had some health issues.

C0315: Mm-hmm.

Harzali&DanAudio: And then

I was like, shit.

So then

fast forward to a trade show somewhere. I think it was in Las Vegas, but I don't remember. I saw him, he was on like a scooter

and he said, um,

oh, I got all your letters.

I've been busy. Like in his funny way.

And then, um, he said,

now you [00:10:00] see why it's so important to just escape and unplug.

And it really, I mean that was just like a real shock to me.

Um.

my, my experience was like this light switch of escape

in a different way.

Right.

And you said earlier in our conversation,

if you asked, if I asked you 20 years ago what your definition of hospitality is or, or was.

You might not have thought about it. Right. You were just doing your, your job at this awesome organization. Mm-hmm.

Was there a light switch moment for you over your career, or did it,

or did it, was it a slow evolution?

I think it was a slow evolution. Uh, again, when I was first starting, not having been in the hospitality industry,

I still didn't fully understand

what

our,

what our premise was to provide to our guests.

So.

as we started getting into it and as our, as our brand started evolving from back when we were Starwood in, into, into Marriott,

um, we started seeing [00:11:00] how we need to create these experiences for our guests.

And as I thought back in, in,

in my own head,

yes, you know, these experiences are are important Scents music

sites, these are things that. We, we think of that, connect us to a place, connect us to a time.

So

that's when I started realizing, yeah, hospitality really is about creating experiences. 'cause you can spend a bun, bunch of money and you can,

you can see some stuff.

You can go to Disneyland and, and go on the rides. But it's actually those, those emotional experiences and connections that you make

that

20 years, 30 years from now, people.

Think back on, they'll hear a song, they'll, they'll see something that'll remind them of, oh, 20 years ago I was with my family. We were sitting on the beach in, in Honolulu, and we,

you know, we had Diamondhead behind us.

So

they're, they're like, really the, the things that we want to try and create. Mm. And Diamondhead is like a timestamp or a [00:12:00] memory stamp. It really is there. It's like this magical. Book,

book bookend. That's like looking down over us. Yeah, it looks fake, but it's really there. I know it's really there.

Um,

so one of the things that I find interesting about my experience with you,

um, no disrespect to other

operations, whether it's housekeeping or

um, or engineering at many other hotels,

if I were to,

in the course of doing a hotel renovation,

if housekeeping.

And or engineering had a say,

a really big say in what the room would look like. It would kind of wind up looking like a veterinarians veterinarian office. Right? Yeah. Stainless steel easily, ma, it'll last forever. It's easily maintained. Mm-hmm.

One of the things that I've f I've found that working with you over the years, and it's interesting, like

you don't

take that

perspective, right?

You have really found a really good balance, and I would say even

leaning more to letting the [00:13:00] designers have. Do their thing, what they're great at, and offering really

good feedback. So all of your other stakeholders are aligned, but how did,

how did you kind of break that cycle of like a typical

super functional engineer?

When, when it comes to balancing design,

I,

think it's probably my, my upbringing.

I, before I got into the hospitality industry, I was a design electrical engineer for.

About seven to 10 years.

So I would work with a lot of architects, a lot of interior designers, and my passion with within electrical engineering was lighting.

So that's very

architectural.

Uh, and I would, I, I would love to do that. So, so I've kind of had a little bit of grounding in, in design before I went on and became, uh, a facilities engineer.

So understanding the, the functionality of a space, functionality of, um, FFF and E. Yeah.

But I balance that with design and how it's meant to look like.

You don't want it to look like a veterinarian's office. You don't want it [00:14:00] to look like something that's very commercial,

but it needs to act commercial, but still look like it's residential. Hmm.

Um, and when you're starting a project with all the, that stakeholders for doing a renovation, and

let's say it's a design firm you maybe had not worked with before,

and they see that.

You have a big say in what's happening. Do, do they get a little apprehensive or how do you set the table to know that

I'm not your

typical engineer?

Well, it's been, it's been easier here in Honolulu. 'cause a lot of people that we work with are people that I've known from back when I was designer and they're like, oh, hey, Sali, good to work with you again.

But in a, in a different realm. So it's been a little bit easier here, uh, as we look at.

Other projects? I think it's just more just having that casual conversation with them,

uh, getting to know them. That's what I like to do. I like to get to know the people that I'm working with and not just

make it a business transaction.

Mm-hmm. So that I can fully understand where they're coming from. And if we [00:15:00] need to have those hard conversations, we can actually have those hard conversations without it being too awkward.

C0315: Mm.

Harzali&DanAudio: Um,

and is there,

and do you, is there a time when you're kind of setting up those teams where there's like a light bulb.

Or like, how do you know when you have that mix just right?

I don't know. It's a, it's a hard question. I think,

you know, you, you just kind of get the, you kind of get a feel when you are, when you're going through

the, the bidding process and you have the interviews with the architects and interior designers,

you get a sense that these people will work in the space, uh, and on the project, and they'll actually do it justice.

So, especially

here in Hawaii

with the properties that we have. As well as, as well as in San Francisco,

every place is a little bit iconic and it has something to the building, something to the, to the area that make it special.

And having our [00:16:00] design team look at

the area, look at the building,

and incorporate that into the design is very important.

And that's what we look through,

look at when we do these interviews with the designers.

You said something interesting to me. Earlier today when we were walking around.

Um,

so we're talking

like we've just been speaking about what the guest experience is and how you tee all that up.

But you were also mentioning how, and this probably comes from an ownership level

as far as the, the level of maintainance and the obsessiveness of

just keeping everything fresh and new.

You were saying to your teams that

this Kyo-ya

invests so heavily in what's actually behind the walls too. Mm-hmm. That the guests don't see. So.

C0315: So

Harzali&DanAudio: What,

explain what you mean by that, and then how does that also drive what the guest experience is ultimately?

Well, traditionally and like we've spoken about earlier,

ownership groups like to just come in, paint the pig, make it look good,

flip the flip, the [00:17:00] property.

Curia, really invest in their, in their properties.

They've had them for over 60 years,

and they'll invest in items such as life safety or infrastructure, which from an engineering point of view is, is great for us. These things always fail

when.

You least expect it overnight on the weekend when nobody's around.

And if they're behind a wall or

above a ceiling, it's really hard to get to. So as we're doing these renovations, as we're opening up walls, we take, we like to take a look at the infrastructure

and, and see what we can do to, to improve it. So

the, the fact that

our ownership group invests in that makes our job easier and, and helps us.

Um.

Keep, keep the property looking, looking its best. And, and again, they're not the sexy things. They're not, they're not these high touchpoint things that the guests will see.

But

if those things fail, then the guests will know about it, then we'll hear about it and then we'll have to [00:18:00] compensate, which is something that we don't wanna do.

And then

Qia, as far as the management company of all of these assets is a subsidiary of a Japanese company, correct? Correct.

C0315: And the,

Harzali&DanAudio: The Japanese company, the o like ownership is here frequently, infrequently.

And so, so we have Qia, which is the management company. They're, they're officed here in the Shera Waikiki, and, and they have a good,

uh, relationship with the hotels, with the associates in the hotels, and they tour the properties on a, on a regular basis.

So they're, they're very in touch with

how the hotels look.

Uh, we do have our owner. Uh, from the ownership group in Japan, and he comes and visits us every month. So every single month, every month, he, he'll, he'll either come here or he'll spend time at the San Francisco property of the palace and he'll meet with the, with the

team just to see what's going on.

Uh, review budgets, review upcoming, any upcoming larger projects. And it's not an asset manager, it's the owner. Correct. So that is super unusual [00:19:00] too, and I would imagine that

in many other cases. An asset manager or an owner will come into a property,

generally speaking. Mm-hmm. And there's a big mad rush to get everything

looking just great.

But here it's, it's kind of baked into, it's like those are table stakes. Correct. How much do you think that that level of pride and

kind of hands-on approach

affects.

The overall organization and all, however many, how many thousand rooms between all of them. We have just under 5,000 rooms. Wow. Between those six properties.

Yeah.

That's unbelievable.

And do, do you think that that's a heavy

contributor to.

The overall culture and like obsessiveness over how well everything is maintained? I, I believe so. I mean, they're seeing the properties at a, at a, on a regular level, and it's not,

it's not something that's a snapshot where they're coming in for two days every month and saying, well, this is what the property looks like.

This is

must be what it looks like year [00:20:00] round.

So they get a, they get a good sense of, of what the property looks like. And, and the best part about the QR team is they entrust the directors of engineering at each property. To be the ones responsible for

caring for the property and, and looking after it.

So,

um, they,

they pro,

they provide us with, with, uh, that, that, um, trust,

uh, that we will look after and,

you know, we, we do our best to make sure that everything looks, looks really good.

One other thing I appreciate about

Hawaii

among so many things, but as

far as like

in the work realm, like what in our vocation.

Is this idea of the coconut wireless,

can you let the listeners know what the Coconut wireless is and how that, I think it actually benefits our industry as a whole because it keeps everyone playing to the best of their ability.

The, the idea of coconut wireless is basically.

Yeah, you, [00:21:00] you really can't keep a secret anywhere.

It it, it will, it will get out. It will,

it will go around. So if there's something that's wrong at the property,

it behooves the director of engineering and, and the team to make sure you fix it, because

before you know it, somebody will find out about it. Then another person will find out about it, and it will just.

Spread like wildfire. So,

um, it's, it's, it's good to always fix these things and not try and keep things hidden for the, for the, for the sake of it. So that's the premise of the coconut wireless, it's almost like an open source

industry, uh, communication

channel. Right? True. It's like a Slack channel for, for the whole industry.

And I I,

think I,

and again, I'm not, I don't live here. I've come here a couple times a year,

but I do get the feeling that.

Even though there's all these different hotels and really competing for

heads and beds mm-hmm. There's a real sense of everyone pulling together. True. And in Hawaii, whether it's fires or recessions or pandemics,[00:22:00]

as

a state I in and observing the hospitality industry,

I feel like

you guys really

surround and kind of band together.

And much better than other states. Do you

like, I know you're bias, you'll be biased in your response. Yeah. But like, how have you seen that as a leader

within the hospitality community here?

I think it's just the realization of everybody that

the hospitality industry is the biggest industry in, in Hawaii.

It's a multi-billion dollar industry. Uh,

as we went through COVID a few years ago and

travelers stopped coming by,

everybody was like, well, we need to look at something else to to support.

Hospitality there, there needs to be something else to support the economy that

of, of the state. But

nothing, nothing can come close to it.

You know, we, we have,

agriculture and manufacturing. There's only so much land that we have. And to do business here can get a little expensive. So hospitality is the king[00:23:00]

and I, I think everybody realizes that. And, and we have different levels, you know, of, of hotel. We have our, our five star all the way down to,

to the lowest level.

So we have a good, we have a good variety of, uh, good mix here in here on the island. So,

uh, I think. Uh,

there is some competitiveness in between the two, but from the engineering point of view and, and through my engineers advisory council

group that we have through the Hawaii Lodging and Tourism Association,

um, the, the engineers don't, don't typically compete with each other.

We like to share our pain and work out how we solve some of the

hardships that we have and just kind of support each other. So we, we have a good group there. When did that engineering.

Um, advising council start

started

about 20, 25 years ago. So before you got to Hawaii. So before I got to Hawaii, uh, it, it started and then kind of disbanded for a few years and then kicked up again.

So I was,[00:24:00]

uh, myself and, and a few others got together and, and we helped revive. Oh, you rebooted it? Yeah, we reboot. Oh, I didn't know that. We rebooted it. Okay, so why.

It, it was, like I said, it was a good support system for the engineers because at the larger properties, you usually have support of corporate, um, to work out how to solve issues, new products that are coming out.

But for some of the smaller properties that we have out there, they don't have that.

Same support system. So it was almost like a big,

big brother, little brother kind of,

kind of system that we, we set up where we're trying to impart our knowledge and then also understand from other properties how they, how they go around solving problems.

So

it was, it was a good council to, to put together and each year we try and get bigger and better and we've put together golf tournaments, we've put together. Community events like build a bike or putting in AC units into local schools. Um.

Painting park benches at

Ani Park. So

[00:25:00] we, we like to give back to the community as well.

And I sit on the board as the, as the vice president of, of the council

and been doing that for a few years now. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's enjoyable and it's nice

working with And is it open to all engineers or is it heads of engineer or is there mentoring? Like how do you It's open to all engineers and, uh, I mentioned the golf tournament, so that golf tournament was a scholarship golf tournament.

So with that,

we would provide funding for any of the engineers at any of the properties to further themselves either

learning about a new system or, or a new piece of equipment

or looking to better themselves to move up to the next step to get into a chief engineer level, to get into a director of engineering level.

So,

and how many members do you have now across the island?

I don't, I'm not sure of the exact number across the islands, but we probably have about a hundred people that Oh, wow. That are part of it.

Uh, and we've started pulling in some of our Allied members, which is some of the companies that we work with, whether [00:26:00] they be vendors or contractors.

And that helps with the, it helps with the mix as well.

Speaker 2: Hey, everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability, and I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor, Berman Fall Hospitality Group is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more info.

Harzali&DanAudio: Oh, that's really cool. I didn't know that.

Um,

and that actually just goes to show like within any industry or any.

Profession within any industry, there usually are the industry groups. Correct. And

in my experience,

okay, yes, you're, you could be a head of engineering or head of facilities,

but to find a rising star within

the ranks,

they're out there.

They're available for everyone. So what do you say to someone who's a frontline engineer, not necessarily at one of your [00:27:00] properties, but maybe

about just looking in and leaning into it a bit more?

I would encourage them, I mean, at, at our properties, we actually have a couple of engineering managers who have recently promoted within the last year or two who were line associate workers, electrician, ac,

mechanic, and they're able to

take the step and realize that

their next move was to be in the management

field.

and yeah, they, they, they took that. They took that plunge and, and they're being very successful at it. It's, it's definitely eyeopening for them. Instead of working eight hours a day, they're working a little bit longer. Um, but they feel a sense of accomplishment, being responsible for more than just

their trade that they oversee.

Yeah. And I recently interviewed, um,

Eileen Madigan, who's with Sands, and she goes between Vegas and

Singapore. They have a lot of projects going on there. And she said something really striking to me,

which, and. On this front, it's, it's not, you [00:28:00] know, people say,

you know.

it's not

what you know, it's who you know.

Mm-hmm. Right.

But she said it's actually, she learned from a mentor of hers. It's not,

um, it's not what you know or who you know, it's, but who knows? You sure. Right. And I feel like these organizations are a great opportunity for people

to be known by others.

It, it really is a great networking environment

and with the community, again, being so small here in, in Hawaii,

it, it's really good to get, get out there and, and meet people, and find people in the same industry, not just hospitality, but also in facilities management

and and

just. Get to chat with them and see what they, what they do, and pick their brain and, and see if there's anything that you can

take back into your own day-to-day work that can make it a little bit more efficient. Hmm.

And then,

so I talking about these, this opportunity to join for

younger aspiring professionals.

[00:29:00] Um,

was there a time

in your career where a mentor or just someone in passing someone that you look up to?

Kind of helped turn that light on for you, much in the same way that John did for me about more inward looking stuff. But like, is there anyone in your, along your path that

turned on that switch in your brain?

Probably have to say from a po from a negative and a positive point of view?

Uh, when I was a design engineer,

I would, I had a challenging boss to work with and I was, I was a younger, younger guy. And where was that?

That was here in here. Here in Honolulu. In Honolulu. And you know, I was, I was in my early twenties,

I was all about playing soccer and having a drink and doing a little bit of engineering on the side.

Um, but I had a challenging boss and, and

I always thought to myself, you know, when I be a boss, when I'm a boss,

I don't want to do the things that

he did. He would come into the office, wouldn't really say, good morning,

give you [00:30:00] some stuff to do, not give you very much.

Very much information on what to do.

And then when you did it,

C0315: it

Harzali&DanAudio: inevitably was always wrong. It wasn't what he was thinking. Well, why don't you just tell me what what you wanted?

C0315: So I,

Harzali&DanAudio: I, so I always took that as the what, not what not. Todos

when you became a bus. So then eventually I was thrust into this role at the Moana in, in, in 2005, and went from being a design engineer to now being a engineering manager of about 800 room property, overseeing 30 people.

I'm like, wow, this is, this is

big. And I realized at that time, oh, I already had some

what not to dos.

So I put those into, into play.

And then from the positive side, the director of engineering that hired me from the Princess

Kani, uh, he was

super knowledgeable guy.

He really taught me how to be a facility engineer,

and [00:31:00] not to take it

super serious,

but know when things were important

C0315: important

Harzali&DanAudio: and just to try and be an expert.

In facilities management because again, I, I really only understood electrical coming in to look at the full gamut.

Mm. And, and not having turned a wrench myself except for

home projects.

Um,

I think, I think 20 years on, I, I think I would've,

I could say that I've excelled at, at doing this without having been a, you know, a tools, hands-on tools kind of a guy.

Mm-hmm.

one of the things that.

We all have to do in the course of our vocation and life is just adapt mm-hmm.

To changing circumstances. And I know across the street is the PK or the Princess Kyo-yani. Yeah. Which was this master plan, um,

demolish, build a new tower. Mm-hmm. And it was for years and years.

It was, it was always the plan, the plan, the plan. COVID happens, things change

and do in on the road to [00:32:00] whatever was gonna happen.

The property was like

not performing as well as it should, and you're like, okay, we have to do something now. The whole plan changed. Mm-hmm.

Let's, let's approach this project a little bit differently. And

I've really been thinking about how to accelerate the cycle of what we do at Berman Falk. Mm-hmm.

Um, and really it applies to any kind of long lead

custom project,

but you,

I think were instrumental in saying, okay, like we have to approach this differently.

Let's do a design build kind of situation and see how quickly we can get this going. Um,

what was interesting to me is that it

as like a data point in

kind of how I've,

my Evo, like my evolution of thinking of how to get things done.

What was really interesting is

that you lined up all the stakeholders, got it going, but then through

honest communication, open communication,

like I got some.

Uh,

my phone rang from someone at Marriot. They're like, are you sure? Like, this is like if they're going [00:33:00] backwards. And I was like, no, I think,

I think they got it. We're gonna,

we'll,

we're gonna make this thing happen. And we kind of put the cart in front of the horse on that one. Right? And it turned out to be incredibly su successful.

But by communicating with all the stakeholders, even the ones who were more concerned,

um, it kind of

reduced any kind of fear that people might have had.

But also from the time that you guys said go to the time that it opened, I think it was probably record time for any project that you worked on. So how did your thinking about a project

change as far as like circumstances change and

putting the cart in front of the horse, that's a hard thing to do.

Like what was your thought process around that?

Because I think we should all, we all do, and I'm

teeing this up in a way that like we all do things a certain way, right?

And that's the industry.

How we do it. That's how my grandmother would cook a pot roast, right? Mm-hmm. She did it a certain way, but it wasn't necessarily the right way.

She cooked it that way because her oven was small. Right? Right.

And so she cut it in half.

But like

how did [00:34:00] you approach that and what was the evolution in your thinking?

Yeah. I, I think projects are always done a certain way, especially in, in with, with our ownership group and here at the hotels, whether it be, uh, a large project, we would always.

Get a third party project manager in, they would set things up. We would do interviews with designers, we'd get a design together, then go out to bid for contractors and get them in.

It'd be a process.

this

one was a little bit different 'cause they said,

we have this money We want to be as efficient with this money as possible.

So that

kind of means not having a project manager. We want you to be the project manager.

So. I'm like, okay, I'll add this unto. But that also increases the odds of like a train wreck too, right? Correct. Correct. And that

added to my

every day of also being the director of engineering at the Sheraton Wiki Key.

And

now I'm looking after the, the Princess Kani. Um,

but I think

having, [00:35:00] having that, having that role on this project helped because

then I said to myself, well, I really only want to work with people that.

Are good obviously, and, and, and people that I can easily, like you mentioned, I can have those conversations with.

Mm-hmm.

When you don't know somebody as, as,

as well, it's hard to have those conversations and that's why we put the design team that we, that we had in place.

We got a contractor involved and that contractor was selected because of the certain subcontracts

contractors that they have.

So if something wasn't going right,

I could just go directly to that subcontractor and say, Hey, we need to.

Tighten up on this. Let's, let's, let's push this forward. So

I wanna say it was planned that way, but

it

wasn't really formulated like that in my head. But it all really just came together from the design to the contractor.

And even after the project was done, our marketing team came in and did an amazing job by realizing[00:36:00]

we had an all female design team.

We had a

female.

Um, artwork team,

and then some of the local fabrics that we have came from a local female designer, and they put that all together and they created this marketing campaign all based around International Women's Week.

So it just

from, from, from the start of the project all the way through to finish in the marketing of the project, it, it just really came together really well and is probably a blueprint for, for projects that we want.

Going ahead. Ownership did tell me that, oh, you renovated the rooms for, for, for this much. We would, we would like you to do that. I said, no, it was, it was the one,

it was a one and done. A one and done.

But, but it was, it was really, really fun at the time. And to see what it is now and, and just see what the room looked like before and what the room looked like after.

It's, it, it was amazing. It was a bumpy process along the way, but

a, a lot of great learnings from, from everybody involved on how to make this project.[00:37:00]

Um,

so successful. And how much time, if you were to say, if you were to have,

from the time that you said go to do that, and you went the normal process

to the way that you did it with the cart in front of the horse mm-hmm.

How much time do you think you saved?

Because in my, in my math to renovate a project from the time that an ownership group says go,

usually takes about a year and a half. Mm-hmm.

Plus or minus two or three months.

With this way, how long do you think it took?

I think we probably save six months in the, in, in the, in the whole project.

Yeah. And that is just so meaningful when you think about,

you

know,

if you run it the normal way, it's, it's, you run it in a way to

really send things out to bid, manage your costs, like get the best possible pricing. I understand that. Mm-hmm. But to save six months and to get that rate bump

six months faster to market, right.

It's like you, you're.

Generating five to 10 x, whatever you would've saved going the normal way. Mm-hmm. And faster revenue to the property. Yeah, that's, that's true. It [00:38:00] was, it was

definitely faster than I anticipated it to be. Um,

but

it, but it worked out really, really well.

And, but also when you go that quickly, and I, I really liked how you said, um,

well, you didn't say it this way, but it's working with more people that you know, like and trust because you're.

You're increasing the odds of a problem or a challenge. Mm-hmm. And you really want to assemble a team that you know

got your back. Correct. Correct. And

again, people that you're just comfortable working with,

you're comfortable having a conversation with, and yeah. They can just

make things happen, which is really good without,

without forcing people to, to do things and, and cut corners.

I think that was the important thing. We were still, we were still designing and constructing in. A way that wasn't going to undervalue the final product. Mm.

Um,

I loved how the timing coincided with International Women's Week. Yeah.

And that also got me thinking about your commitment to sustainability

and [00:39:00] just,

I don't know, just being mindful of the comm of the community, the global, the local, um, hotels consume a lot of power.

Mm-hmm. They generate a ton of waste.

Um, I interviewed.

A hotel developer, a long t um,

I don't know, a year or two ago who did this hotel, Marcel as the first passive house, um, hotel in the United States.

Um, zero emission,

like from the induction stoves to,

you know, the shuttle that would take you to the train station was a battery operator.

Mm-hmm. There's a spectrum of

developers or hotel owners

from he. Who believes that because hotels spend more

on CapEx capital expenditures than any other real estate asset class. Mm-hmm.

If hotels really committed to it,

they could be carbon neutral, all hotels within 10 years. Right. That's one, that's one end of the spectrum.

Then there's the other end of the spectrum that says[00:40:00]

there's no way that was like a unicorn deal.

You know it, that can never happen.

But then there's in the middle and somewhere shaded towards that way.

I think hotels and hospitality has an

an opportunity because of the guests coming and the impact and the escape and the story that you tell these guests to kind of be the vanguard of

thinking about sustainability from a different way.

Mm-hmm. I started off by introducing you as someone who's committed to sustainability, like

how does sustainability factor into these master plan projects and what does it mean to you? Why is it important to you? It

sustainability, I, I've kind of had it in my blood since my design days When I was

designing, we would, we would work on these lead sustainable projects.

Uh, we worked on a project on the big island where we utilized the deep ocean sea water

to help passively cool a building. So there was no actual mechanical moving component. [00:41:00] All we were doing was pumping water through tubes and the natural air flow would flow through these and, and cool the space. So that was, you know, that was one of the

more cooler projects that we

literally, cooler projects that we, pun intended, that we, that we worked on.

So, I, you know, I've, I've.

Being in sustainability for a while coming from Australia. Australia kind of takes off the Europe where

they embrace climate and they try to be as sustainable as possible. So

coming here to Hawaii, it's an island limited resources.

So sustainability is important here, but it's not as readily available as most places.

'cause we are an island. A lot of our waste,

a lot of our recycling has to get shipped off.

Shipped off. It, it, it can't be broken down here. It there, there's no large manufacturing plants.

So sustainability has been, um, part of me for, for a while.

Uh, ke

do embrace sustainability as well.

Uh, they're [00:42:00] committed to the local community.

And again, like I said, being, being here in in Hawaii.

Embracing the local community means being sustainable. So, so wherever they can be sustainable, whether it be in the products they use,

um, equipment that's selected, that uses less, less energy,

uh, they, they're all about that. And if you were to,

you know, in your 15, 20 years, 20 years here, 20 years, um, some sustainable initiative that you've undertaken either at a property or ke wide, what's something that.

You think other hoteliers could learn from? And it's like, I'm, I'm coming at this from a place of,

you know, waterfalls start with a drop of water. Mm-hmm. And I think

while

all these small little efforts, when you add them up in aggregate, they make, they're meaningful. And then when you have guests come through, more guests come through a hotel,

then an office building, or even multi-family towers, like there's an opportunity to [00:43:00] like.

C0315: like.

Harzali&DanAudio: Impress or change someone's thinking. So

what's what's an initiative you've taken on in your years that you're proud of?

Well, You

you can put in all the bells and whistles that you want into a property. You can

put in the most sustainable chiller, the most energy efficient

refrigeration equipment. But if the people using it don't use it how it's intended,

then.

You don't see the savings that you're meant to. So

I think the

biggest initiative that I'm still trying to work on is the education of our associates and, and also our guests.

Our guests come here and, and

a lot of them do understand sustainability from, from the areas that they, they

do come from. But

sometimes when you, when you come here or if you're working here,

you, you're not really invested in how much.

Energy or how much water the building uses. So

guests leave, they leave the lights on,

associates will leave a faucet dripping

it. It's really

how do we start changing the mindset of [00:44:00] people to say, okay, I'm leaving.

I'm leaving the the room

just as I would do in my own house.

I

gotta turn off the lights.

Or an associate to say, Hey, I really need to turn off the water 'cause a dripping tap. So over a number of weeks, months, years,

can save, can, can consume, you know, tens, hundreds, thousands of gallons of water, which is, again, being on an island, we, we don't have unlimited water resources.

Uh, so yeah, I think, I think that's probably the biggest initiative is just

being, being there to try and change the mindset of, of how our guests and our associates look at, look at.

How they're using, um, their

utilities here, here at the hotel. Uh, we sought that by

getting LEED certified. So we have the Sheraton Waki key in the Royal Lead certified, as well as the Warner Surf Rider.

And then there's a initiative through one of the departments, run of the state departments to,

uh, it's called the Green Business Program.

So

there's.

Various checklists that we [00:45:00] have to fill out on how sustainable we're being in terms of energy conservation, waste conservation, water conservation, uh, what we're doing from an associate point of view to help,

to help perpetuate sustainability. So you've,

these hotels have been owned by IQA since let's say the early seventies, right?

Mm-hmm.

And

you've converted many of these, all of them to lead.

Uh, just, just two, uh, three of the, three of the six. Yeah, but they're the big, like, correct. It's the sheriff. 2000 rooms, 3 2500 rooms, something like that. Yeah, it's about 3000 rooms. That's crazy. Okay. And then from that, the conversion must have been very difficult.

it It, was in a way, um, it was just a lot of, it was really a lot of testing, just a lot of

air monitoring. 'cause indoor air quality, but also consumption. Correct. Because as a whole like.

Like I said,

um,

Kyo-ya has embraced sustainability. Mm-hmm. And they've been doing it since the early nineties. So the Sheraton Waikiki was the first hotel in Waikiki to [00:46:00] have ev charging stations that was done in 2011.

Wow. Uh, so they have really embraced that. We have

LEDs throughout our properties. Uh, we, we look to put in low,

low flow water fixtures in, in all of our guest rooms and, and public spaces. One of the reasons why I was asking, I didn't realize that.

Bad research by me.

Apologies. But

what's exciting about that is

so much of this and a hotel is an, it's an operating real estate asset.

Mm-hmm. But

part of

Bruce, who

was the guy that did the hotel in New Haven, that was the first

passive house. He, you know, hotel owners are obviously driven by bottom line. Mm-hmm. And sometimes you have to make this change in investment. To benefit the bottom line.

Do you have any,

I'm sure you don't have the data right now 'cause I didn't ask you to research it, but like before converting to a lead certified building

and all the changes that you had to do, is there a [00:47:00] kind of a before and after

net positive to the bottom line and is there a way to measure that?

I think the easiest way to measure that is, is through the utility bills and, and again,

I hadn't looked at it, but.

As I said, we've been doing these things over, over a period of time. So as we start to look at

getting lead certified, we've already put all these things in place. So, so it's not,

okay, this is where you stand now.

You need to do all these things to become lead certified. So what's, what's the,

um, benefit at the end? Uh.

I, I think we've already been doing it and we've seen over the years how our utility costs have come down. And, and we're measured by, by Marriott

to make sure that we're also gonna hit our,

uh, net zero goals by 2050.

So each year we have a certain

reduction goal in our energy and our water usage, which we, we need to hit. So we're always looking for these little things to try and save and, and put in.

New pieces of equipment,

train our staff, train our [00:48:00] associates to make sure that they understand how to, how to

work this equipment and thereby save water and utilities.

Um,

much in the same way that an,

a boss

of yours along your

career showed you how to not do things right. Um, I find that

oftentimes, like when things blow up, so let's say that experience showed you,

I don't want to be like that. I want to be, mm-hmm. This way, and it helped you evolve as a person and a manager and a leader.

Um,

in the course of doing projects, we all,

we learned the most from when the things go off the rails. In your career being here, what, what

off the rails snafu did you learn the most from and why?

Or are there too many to think of?

No, I, I, I don't think too many projects

run off the rails that badly. Mm. I think the biggest thing,[00:49:00]

the biggest

issue we have here is just understanding how long it takes for things to get here.

'cause you have the manufacturing time

and then you have the time it takes to get from, whether it be Asia or Europe.

Or even the mainland to,

to Hawaii.

So they're the things that we need to start incorporating. One interesting thing that I did learn, I, I learned early on in my hospitality career was

come fabric.

I.

Did not understand com fabric. And and that's COM customers own material for those of you who dunno. And, and that is, it adds

months. Yep. You order it and you have to get it set to sub random factory and Yeah. To get coated and Yep. Fire protected and, oh yeah. Never understood that. So that was probably,

that was more educational lesson for myself,

uh, in, in terms of adding that lead time

to, to a project.

Um. But yeah, I, I think nothing really goes off the rails, apart from, it always comes down to shipping in the, at the end of the day because you can plan things out and then[00:50:00]

things, things just happen. Like, yeah,

especially when we're getting stuff from Asia. It could have two stops before it gets to

Hawaii, and we've experienced in, in other projects.

Containers just get left on the port and suddenly don't make a ship. And then

all of a sudden you are two days to maybe even a week behind schedule on when the furniture's meant to come here. And if you've got a really tight schedule that can push things back, and as you're pushing things back,

that all just means less room revenue.

Especially if you're doing extra innovation and extra cost because people were just sitting around that were supposed to be working. Correct? Correct.

Um, so 20 plus years in.

Living here in Hawaii,

working on some amazing projects here and in the mainland. Um, being a leader on your industry group mm-hmm.

Um, you know, looking at all of this, what's exciting you most about the future?

Think just the upcoming renovations that we, that, that we have. [00:51:00] Um, just really refreshing the, the product. Um,

I've been through.

Two cycles now of, of our, of our product. And it's, it's nice just being there to,

to refresh it. And it's, it's still the,

it's still the same hotels.

The, the hotels have their own aura to them. People stay at the different hotels. I mean,

even when you look at the morning surf rider, you have the historic wing, you have a modern tower,

you have one that's more like a, the business hotel.

But

it's all, it's all one hotel. It's like three hotels in one, but people like to stay in, in different, different parts of it.

And,

and,

just for them to come back and, and stay in the different areas and, and

see how they've been renovated. Still the same room, still the same size. We're not changing the size of the room, we're just changing the look and feel. I, that's what, that's what I like. It just keeps guests coming back for, for more.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I always know I'm getting old because I'm. Coming up on somewhere. It's like the third

renovation. Yeah. [00:52:00] It's like three turns of the zodiac. I know. Ugh.

C0315: Good

Harzali&DanAudio: Another day.

Um, hey, if people wanted to learn more about these awesome properties with Kyo-yah or you, what's a good way for them to.

Get in touch or learn more.

Best way is just to go to our hotel's websites. Uh, you can get them Just

Google or whatever search engine you use. Just type in the names Sheraton Waikiki, Royal Hawaiian Warn, surf Rider, princess

Kani, the Sheraton, Maui or the Palace.

Uh, and that's how you can learn about our properties and you can learn a little bit more about Qia and there's a little bit of a sustainability blurb on, on those websites as well.

If you wanna learn more about me, just hit me up on LinkedIn or, or Instagram and.

Great, I'll be there. And then the Engineering Advising Council, is there a website or a, a landing page for that or just y Yeah, so should any engineers listening just reach out

Totally, uh, on LinkedIn or something? They, they can go,

uh, reach out on LinkedIn first, but, uh, we do, it is through the, um, Hawaii Lodging and Tourism Association, HLTA [00:53:00] and we have a link there to the Engineers Advisory Council, and we have our website there.

We talk about what functions we do, what events we do, and then yeah. Awesome. Get involved.

Thank you for doing this. Like I've loved our relationship and the projects that we've gotten through.

I appreciate your calm demeanor. There's so many projects I work on in my life

where there's just,

it's always a challenge.

Things are always moving,

and when things kind of get a little bit dicey, there's the screamers. Mm-hmm. And then there's the patient.

Just get it done. Yeah. I'll support you and you're in that camp for me and,

uh, and for all of us. I just really appreciate it. No, I, I appreciate our friendship and, uh, we have good laugh.

We have a few drinks and it's, and it's always, always been great. And, um, yeah, no, I, I love this industry. 20 years on,

again,

going to, going to college and coming out with an engineering degree and never thought I'd be working in a hotel. So

I do love this [00:54:00] industry. I'm unbelievable. Yeah.

I've got a few more years in me, I think.

Good. Yeah. You gotta make it to that third renovation. That's true. That's true.

Mahalo everyone.

Thank you.

Appreciate it. No, thank you for your time And yeah, let's go have a drink and thanks for the view. No problem. And for all of you,

if this has helped you

evolve your thinking on hospitality or how things get done

or mentoring or joining industry groups, or you think someone could benefit from this,

please.

Pass it along to them. Don't forget to like, subscribe and leave a comment.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mahalo.