Defining Hospitality

DH - Graeme Labe
===

Graeme Labe: [00:00:00] my bags, bought myself a Land Rover, drove up to a dusty town called Ma or Mound at the edge of the Okavonjo Delta I just got this, this opportunity and experience to kind of learn about safari camps and safari lodges. And I think, you know, a lot of experiential hospitality. Roots today come from that experience,

Intro: What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.

Sponsor: This podcast is sponsored by Berman Fall Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture [00:01:00] manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.

Dan Ryan: Today's guest is an award-winning designer, two-time founder and innovative alternative construction leader. He has over 30 years of experience and passion for sustainable and biophilic design. He's a two-time recipient of the Radical Innovation Award.

He's the managing partner and chief design officer at Luxury Frontiers. Ladies and gentlemen, Graeme Labe. Welcome Graeme.

Graeme Labe: Thank you, Dan. Thanks very much. Really excited to be on your podcast.

Dan Ryan: I am excited to have you on as well. And one of the things that I was struck by is how many awards your firm has won. And I know you don't do what you do for the awards, but I, I think it's worth highlighting and also noting that you're a two time radical innovation award winner, um, multiple ahead awards.

I mean, the list is so long on your website. It's, it's really amazing and. [00:02:00] I'm sure lots of people are jealous for all the awards, but I know you don't do what you do for the awards. That's just an outcome of having a different perspective and pushing the envelopes in design and creating these new and unique experiences.

And I'd like to dig into how all of that happened after a two, two-time, uh, founder and then starting this incredible company that you have now, um, because it seems to be firing on all cylinders. And we're just really excited to have you been such a big part of radical innovation over the years. And if you haven't gotten your tickets for radical innovation, um, I believe it's October 24th in, on the west side of Manhattan and Chelsea Pierce.

So please come check. So welcome Graeme. Before we get into all those questions that I have, um, what does hospitality mean to you?

Graeme Labe: For us, uh, for myself and luxury frontiers, we're in a very special place within hospitality. You know, we, um, our, our main focus is around [00:03:00] special, uh, experiential specialty. Um, we tend to, um, uh. within remote and off the beaten track locations. So for us, hospitality is really about providing that luxury and comfort, but also creating a sense of, edge. To the experience where we push the guest slightly outta their comfort zones, but in a way that they can fall back and feel comfortable. And the reason that we like, look to do this is that the designs that we, we, uh, work on and work with not the, the focus is not really so much about. The bricks and mortal the Desi, you know, the, the buildings itself.

It's [00:04:00] to allow the visitor and the guest to experience where they are and properly understand where they are, and more importantly, based on the principles of biophilic design experience where they are.

Dan Ryan: I think that lens of experience where they are is truly transformational. I remember in 2017, I, you're sitting in Johannesburg, South Africa right now. I was a, I don't know, a couple thousand, I don't know how far away the Masai Mara, or Serengeti is from where you're Probably a couple. I'm gonna say a couple thousand miles to the northeast north.

Graeme Labe: Uh, it's about, I, I think it's about, uh, six or so thousand miles or,

Dan Ryan: Okay. So somewhere far away. My first experience of going on Safari. Um, obviously there's a bit of an adventure, um, going on from a big plane halfway around the world to a little plane. And then we, we stayed in this luxury tent [00:05:00] camp, so it's mobile, it's not a permanent fixture, which you do. Permanent fixtures always.

I would ass correct.

Graeme Labe: we also do, we also do mobiles

Dan Ryan: Oh, okay. So I walked up to this place, like in this, um, little creek with wonderful trees and shade. There was a huge escarpment off to the left. I, I really felt like I was near Pride Rock from the Lion King, but I've traveled a lot. I, I've been, I think al almost every continent in the world except for Antarctica.

And it was at that moment of having been almost for in my mid forties, I was like, oh my gosh, I haven't really traveled yet, because that experience of being in a tent. And having just the views and being in nature and having a leopard walk right past my head while I was sleeping, just separated by canvas and hearing, it sounded like a saw was being cut.

Um, and my daughter's sleeping next to me and [00:06:00] me being like, oh, I'm not a good protector. We're gonna get eaten alive tonight. It, but we were totally safe. But it was, it was an experience that I've not had even ca even like camping in the woods. And when I look at all of the projects that you've done and the, the awards that you've won, that idea of the four walls is gone, right?

You're really bringing people into this experience and it is truly transformative. How, at what point in your career did that light bulb go off for you to say the, I really wanted, every project I work on, I really want to challenge that idea of what the four walls are and how projects are situated and really bring that experience.

Into the person experiencing it.

Graeme Labe: you know, um, when I really far started out my career, I, I, you know, kind of was, um. I was involved in kind of hospitality, but more traditional [00:07:00] hospitality you know, hospitality projects. And at the time I was working for, um, orient Express Hotels, which is now Belmont, and they. Decided to buy a series of safari lodges and camps in the Okavango Delta. And they you know, thought, okay, you're from Africa, you must know exactly what happens in the bush and what happens in the wild So, you know, kind of, I kind of thought for a second before I answered it and then kind of said, do I really?

Dan Ryan: That's one of those moments where you always say, yes, of course I do.

Graeme Labe: and that absolutely changed my life. um, my bags, bought myself a Land Rover, drove up to a dusty town called Ma or Mound at the edge of the Okavonjo Delta and my kind of [00:08:00] connection to, what we call in, correct. or South Africa. The bush, really started and it just kind of washed, you know, kind of washed into me. And, uh, I, I just got this, this opportunity and experience to kind of learn about safari camps and safari lodges. And I think, you know, a lot of experiential hospitality. Roots today come from that experience,

and I just had this opportunity to do it.

And I, I lived in my own for five years, traveling between all these lodge sites within the Wango Delta, either in my Land Rover or by light aircraft, and absolutely changed my life and just gave me a whole new perspective of. What does experience mean? [00:09:00] What does luxury mean? You know, what is important?

Dan Ryan: Um, a funny thing happened after we had this magnificent experience staying out there in the Mara and there were guards with guns around. To keep some of the animals out. Um, and maybe people, I don't know, it was probably animals 'cause the people were all pretty cool around there. Um, but we went on a bunch of different safaris like driving out game drive, game rides or whatever they were called.

And then I remember towards the end we went up towards this other permanently built structure that had kind of tent camps associated with them. But then we went out of the gates and then there were just campers, uh, like in van, in, in Volkswagen vans with a Coleman tent just sleeping out there without the benefit of guard or you know, the cooks and just all the incredible things that I found.

And so while we [00:10:00] are gonna go onto a conversation about luxury and um. Just that experience in these incredible areas. I'm just gonna say that people also, c you can experience this in any way. There's, there is not really a barrier to entry of price in the sense that those pe I don't know if I would go and sleep in a Coleman tent out there with the lions and the leopards and everyone else walking around or that, or the elephants that could trample me.

Um, but it is a, there is, it is approachable to everyone. You just have to be willing to take that step. Um, one of the things on the luxury side that I am really awestruck with the projects that you've worked on is how you've incorporated this idea or sustainability as a, as a major pillar, if not the number, the strongest pill.

I guess you have to have equally strong pillars, but I would put more heavily, I would more heavily weight sustainability onto your approach to projects. Um, can you [00:11:00] just describe that to me as far as, 'cause you're going into these places. They're beautiful, untouched, virgin locations. But you also not only take a, a view of sustainability as far as how you approach the site, but I also get the feeling and have read that, you know, there's, there's also opportunity as, as whatever this location is, starts operating to educate and create a halo effect of sustainability within the community around.

So if you just tell us a bit about that. 'cause it's not just the place, it's the community.

Graeme Labe: 100%. So, um, you know, most of these locations are either set in national parks, game reserves, community lands that uh, national parks and. There are certain, you know, there are very stringent regulations as a starting point in many of these locations. First of all, what you can do, [00:12:00] how you can do it, and some, you know, some of those regulations are so stringent that in places like again the IV Vongo Delta and certain locations within the Serengeti is that you're not allowed to build concrete. Brick and mortar, no permanent. You know, you can build a semi-permanent camp, but you cannot put concrete brick and mortar to the ground. that creates certain parameters for you to think of as well as, as a starting point. The other thing that you also need to consider in these locations is that where you, where you are kind of. Designing for developing, there is no infrastructure. So you need to create all that infrastructure and design for all that infrastructure. You know, you've gotta consider where you're gonna get your water, how you're gonna generate your power, um, you know how you're gonna deal with your [00:13:00] waste water, how you're gonna deal with your solid waste.

So all of those elements have to come to mind and need to be integrated into your design process. The other side to it and most probably the strongest side is they are, you know, at the end of the day, the importance of this is and should be the champion is the environment. you know, if we want to be absolute true environmentalists, we need to say nobody should go to these places, but we should leave them alone and, um, that they should just be left absolutely virgin and, and prestige. Um, unfortunately, you know, in order for these kind of locations to, uh, survive, there needs to be economic benefit in order to maintain the land and for, in order for the land to retain [00:14:00] as wildlife areas and not to be taken over for farming or for mining as long as it has that value.

Through this ecotourism, these places can sustain. So when it comes to the communities, and there are a lot of communities that live on the, the edges of these, um, national parks. And as long as these communities understand, not only understand but receive direct benefit from this kind of tourism and these kind of developments that take place in these kind of locations, it becomes a win-win for everybody.

It cuts, you know, by creating job opportunities, revenue opportunities, and real revenue opportunities and ownership opportunities, these that benefit these communities, the communities then understand [00:15:00] the importance of. Kind of environmental management and, and and, and you know, kind of wildlife retention.

And even in certain cases we've worked in projects where degradated farmland has been rewild it to bring it back to a more pristine and wildlife environment.

Dan Ryan: If you think about getting all the material there or site selection and getting all the material there, getting buy-in from the community or the national park. Uh, when you, when you look at all the complexities that are headwinds into the projects that you do, which project that you've worked on do you think was the most difficult to approach from that point of view?

Graeme Labe: Each project, I think each project has its own challenges. Um, you know, we are, we are looking, you know, kind of, [00:16:00] um, we have projects where, you know, uh, you would have to, you know, the logistics play such a, a, a, a, a pivotal role where you have to get goods in through kind of a long haul truck from a city.

Then you have to change it onto a, um, a, a, uh, four wheel drive truck. Then the materials need to be changed onto a dugout canoe and then ported to site. I mean, those are the kind of complexities of, uh, projects. We've looked at projects like that in Rwanda. Um, Botswana is a kind of a prime example of that.

Um. We've also, you know, could been working on projects in places like Peru, where, and places like Nepal where there is just no road access and everything has [00:17:00] to be ported in or, you know, on the back of a mule. And when you start looking at that, uh, you have to start designing accordingly. So you have to start looking at, how you design, uh, things around member sizes and panel sizes because you need to kind of account not just for the building itself, but getting the materials there and understanding what length of timber can a mule put onto its back.

And you have to design everything around. Oh my God, so many incredible constraints

Dan Ryan: that's. That's crazy. I always, I always think about since the rise of container ships, I think that if you look at all the mass producers of furniture, I think most of the furniture that we all wind up with in our homes and a residential side, Desi, people who are designing that furniture can't really push the ev They're kind of constrained by, and everything is optimized for those 40 foot containers.[00:18:00]

And I feel like because the supply chain is so global and just in time, we're not able to mess with scale as much in people's homes. To think about how big a two by four has to be to that or how many can fit on a donkey's back is just a whole nother level of constraint. That's, that's unbelievable.

Graeme Labe: No, that, that's exactly the point. It's, I mean, we, we are fortunate it's not always the case. And, and those are the extremes, uh, to it. It's, you know, it's also back to the, you know, what are the building regulations? What are you allowed to build with and not build with what is de deemed as permanent or non, you know, uh, semipermanent.

Um, you know, and it just, it, it, it pushes you to kind of really consider your designs, really carefully without losing the kind of original, [00:19:00] that kind of original intent of, you know, 'cause the design at the end of the day, both visually and practically so kind of function and form kind of marrying together are still so important in these developments.

Yeah.

Dan Ryan: Well that, that brings us back around to, on your website, and I'll put the link in there 'cause everyone should go here and just look, if you click on the accolade section. I've never seen a firm with this many accolades and awards, and I'm sure there are out there, but it is just like, and maybe you don't like talking about them.

Um, but it's, it's really unbelievable and everyone should look at it. The reason why I want to point attention to there, it's like, for me, I furnish hotels. Winning that big, big contract could be the equivalent, or working on a project that wins an award could be the equivalent of that award. But to me, it's not about the award or, or getting the [00:20:00] big project.

To me it's about all the activities that lead up to that. So, in my case, I love connecting people. I love talking to people. I love shortening other people's journeys. So I hold myself accountable to have at least a hundred collisions with people every month, right? Via podcast, coffee, dinner, drinks, whatever, whatever, whatever.

'cause I just, I get energy off of people. Um. The reason why I'm sharing that is because I'm sure when you and Luca started the, the, your company, you weren't doing it to win awards. So if you were to kind of step back and say, look at all the activities that you two have done in your entire team have done to wind up winning you all those awards, what do you think the most important activity that you do in a day-to-day, week to week, month to month situation is helps bring those awards over the transom for you?

Graeme Labe: I, I think it's, it's [00:21:00] twofold, and I think it's about how we kind of set out with the company is that, um, you know, at the beginning stages of, of our kind of meeting and, and kind of, um, starting to build up luxury frontiers, is that, um. My role was kind of, I was really kind of focusing on safari lodges and safari lodges in Africa and, you know, the design and doing uh, full turnkey design and, and, and project management and trying to kind of, we, we found that, I found at that stage that, uh, you know, doing these projects that way was a lot easier for me 'cause I could kind of control all the elements.

And I started doing, you know, literally I was doing one project a year, if I was lucky. I was doing two projects a year because it was just such a, you know, time intensive, you know, process. You know, I would [00:22:00] sit with the design for a couple of months in the office and then literally through the.

Construction process. I, I would live on site for two months at a time and, you know, come back for a couple of weeks and go back to site and live on site and kind of develop where Luca, you know, could have really had the vision to kind of see how this experiential, uh, hospitality and how this experience was so successful in Africa and how this opportunity lay for places like Europe, the Americas and, and Asia and, you know, kind of, he really had the vision to kind of take it across the oceans.

And I think, you know, kind of, I had the understanding of, you know, how and how and why and we were able to kind of bring that together. And I think for us is [00:23:00] that it's really about that challenge and. I think for us it's about getting the, you know, it's the kick out of it. You know, give us a challenge and we are, we, you know, we really want to take it on and I think we've been really fortunate to be able to make a really successful business out of it.

Dan Ryan: And having worked at larger companies and started two companies of your own, at what point, how did you meet Luca? At what point did you say, you know what, I think I'm ready for a partner. Because sometimes that's oftentimes for entrepreneurs, the most difficult task or idea to take on. If you've been used to doing things on your own, like, what was that?

How did, at what point did that light bulb go off for the two of you? Or you. If you can't get into his head, but I'm sure you know his story too.

Graeme Labe: I think Luca's smarter than me at these kind of things. So what happened was, is that I was there [00:24:00] plotting away, doing my one or two projects. He, uh, kind of immersing myself on the ground.

Mm-hmm. Um, he had the opportunity, you know, of a project in Costa Rica and he kind of shopped around and kind of asked around, you know, who's really good at. Alternative architecture and tent architecture and design. And, um, somebody said, contact Graeme Labe. He is in South Africa. He has these contact details.

And I gave me a call and he said, you know, I've got this project opportunity in Costa Rica. Would you like to try and come across with me and undertake this project? And, you know, we, uh, went to look at the project. Unfortunately, the project never came to fruition, but the light bulb kind of dropped and was probably more so for Luca than it did for myself.

But what I kind of [00:25:00] realized is that, you know, whilst we, you know, we have to actually bring these projects to fruition, uh. At that time, the message or the understanding of this kind of hospitality was not really out in the Americas or in Europe that strongly. And with Lucas seeing that opportunity and being the penultimate salesman that he is and you know, kinda really had the vision for this, is really using our skill sets in bringing this together and bringing, you know, his ability to bring the message.

Um, and really being able to bring the understanding of the value of this, you know, kind of experiential tourism into traditional tourism. Um, I think that's where kind of the, the, the, the bulb light went on and, you know, we were able to build up a, a successful [00:26:00] business, uh, in doing so. And I think. our designs are great, but I think what's really allowed us to kind of get to the forefront is pushing the experience to the forefront.

And it's really about that you can physically see the experience that the, the, the visitor, the guest gets by viewing the architecture or viewing the design.

Sponsor: Hey, everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability, and I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor, Berman Fall Hospitality Group is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more info.

Dan Ryan: I, your designs are incredible. They're very [00:27:00] striking and I think as just a fan of design, not an expert in design, what I would say is you're using un unusual building materials, um, as compared to the normal built environment, right?

So it's a lot of canvas, there's a lot of just other like raw lumber, but you're, you've creating these incredible forms. But I think what's also so striking is not just how and what you're building with, but you're definitely letting. Nature, take the front row. Right. And oftentimes that is not the case more often than not.

and it's recognized and you're, you're, you're, you're, you've been bequeathed all of these awards. I'm sure you apply for many of them, but some of them I'm sure just come over the transom because they're so stunning. Um, I was wondering for you, having done this a while, and the use of awards, so there's the awards that you just get awarded, right?

Someone notices it there, but [00:28:00] then speaking specifically to an award like radical innovation, where it's kind of like you're pushing the envelope, it's, it's not necessarily a real project, it's like a laboratory, uh, r and DI find that most firms do not undertake these kind of laboratory Blue Sky Award projects, but I think that they're invaluable because that innovation that, that you have to come together as a team.

Lead to unexpected places. So specifically about radical innovation and other kind of blue sky awards that you're, you're doing almost, I mean, pro bono to push the envelope. How does that help you as a firm and a team stay sharp? And what can you say to other firms out there as far as taking advantage of all these awards and, and, and opportunities that are there to push the limits?

Graeme Labe: mean, you, I think you've hit the nail on the head is, you know, for us [00:29:00] the radical, uh, innovation award, um, or competition is one of our favorite competitions to enter. We try and do it every. Two or so, you know, two to three years to enter. Um, and it's, you know, for us the, you know, kind of pushing the envelope, uh, looking for new materials, looking for new ideas is really kind of core to, uh, who we are and what we do.

And then in fact, within our design studio, we actually have a design lab we encourage our, our, our. Uh, colleagues, um, to experiment with the materials, to kind of test things out, you know, in this laboratory and. So it's really within our DNA to look for, you know, kind of, we, we, we, the essence of our design is about using alternative materials. And in order to do that, you have to experiment and you have [00:30:00] to look for ways to innovate and, it, it keeps the ideas flowing and it also, it is so important for our, for us to kind of pass this DNA onto our team members. So you know, the example I can use on this is for, uh, the 2025, radical innovation competition.

What we did is we decided to kind of do this a bit differently within the studio, that we had our own internal. Radical innovation competition within the studio.

Dan Ryan: Oh, wow.

Graeme Labe: And,

Dan Ryan: Huh.

Graeme Labe: What we did is we kind of, uh, myself and, uh, Anna mean Smith, who is um, my creative director, we set up the parameters along the very similar lines to radical innovation.

We put it out to the teams and we said to them. Whoever, kind of, whichever team kind of wins, you know, our internal competition, [00:31:00] we will then work with them and, you know, kind of up the submission. Uh, and so we kind of, uh, we divided the studio into different teams. We coached them in the beginning.

We kind of workshopped with every single team on their ideas and we kind of. Helped each team do their own internal submission, and then we put it to an outside. We kind of brought in some colleagues and we did an outside judging and we set certain criteria for the judging.

Dan Ryan: Oh wow.

Graeme Labe: it was really about getting the DNA into our studio

Dan Ryan: Huh.

Graeme Labe: And then we, we took our winning. Um. Uh, winning team, and we worked with them and our kind of worked with them to build up our actual submission for radical and amazingly we are finalists. But it it just that, that, you know, it's that inset DNA that we wanted to bring through.

Dan Ryan: It's also just [00:32:00] that adage of, um, iron sharpens iron. Right? It's so interesting. There's so many events out there that we participate in as a company, and they, they're, it, they just make us better. And there's organizations and things that just help us step out of what we do every day and think a little differently about how we approach what we do every day.

Um,

Graeme Labe: Exactly.

Dan Ryan: of the strongest. Often bantered about terms with respect to your projects is this idea of biophilia, biophilic design and sensory storytelling. So I find that most people out there approach biophilic design or their un, their understanding of biophilic design is a green wall, maybe some natural light and a lot of plants.

How do you think, how do you define biophilic design? I guess more expansively than just the ordinary perception of it.

Graeme Labe: [00:33:00] kind of what.

us as humans kind of undertake or kind of, um, experience that kind of biophilic, uh, experience and do biophilic design, is that we really, you know, it, there is something that sits inherent in us that we want to connect to nature. Even if we don't, we are not quite sure about it or we cut what not quite. Definitive about it. people are, you know, kind of a bit more wary about it, but we all. Subconsciously when we do appreciate it. it's not just about, as you say, bringing a g green wall into your, uh, building or build with materials that are naturally tactile, but really break down the barriers between and, and, and, and know could, this term is very loosely used these days and, and, and quickly used is to kind of like merge that, um. [00:34:00] Experience between indoors and outdoors, but it's really about finding ways to break that barrier within the design so that the, the, the user can, can really experience Both, you know, kind of, physically, emotionally, you know, I think it's, it's so important.

Dan Ryan: okay, so I wanna bring technology into this because going back to that first Safari experience in 2017. We were in a place where maybe you could get an SMS or a text message out and maybe you could receive 'em. But really, I had, I had no contact. Actually, my, my father died while I was out in the Mara, and then when I got back to Nannuki, everything went bananas.

And he was sick for a while. So it was, it wasn't really a sup, it was a surprise, but it wasn't really a surprise. Um, and it's actually a funny point of [00:35:00] that is a couple months later I was watching The Crown and King George died while Queen Princess Elizabeth or Queen Elizabeth was on Safari in Kenya.

And she didn't hear about it until she got back to the telegram station in Nan Yuki. So it was like a weird, but I almost fell outta my seat in the airplane when I watched that part. So in, in a, in one, in a strange way, I'm kind of like the queen of England, but, um, technology, then I couldn't. You were just kind of cut off and that also made it more special.

The last time I went, which was two summers ago, um, starlink was everywhere. And it was better than my office in many cases and better than New York City. And how do you balance that? 'cause at some point there's a level of escape, but now you can be connected everywhere.

So how do you personally approach that? And then what are some strategies that you hear from other travelers on your way as far as when they really want to escape? [00:36:00] How do they escape? Do, do these hotels offer a, like a locked drawer where you can put your technology and just be there?

Graeme Labe: Well, you know, we, we really try and encourage our clients being the kind of operate and developer to kind of do that. But we, we have to work alongside, you know. Uh, their needs. 'cause, you know, kinda at the starting point of any project, we create a framework for that project, understanding the needs of the operator, the guests, et cetera.

We try and kind of stand in the middle of this as the designers and kind of find where those intersections meet kind of try and meet everybody on that. I, I, I think it's back to kind of that luxury is that how do you become, how do you become truly. Connected to where you are and, and, and, and remove the noise.

And that, that, to me, that's my personal kind of thing is, you know, the, the way that I can kind of disconnect and [00:37:00] not be on my phone and not kind of be in comms. Um, and I think a a lot of people, if you really try it, you can appreciate it. you time to decompress from it. But I mean, technology has kind of moved so far. Ahead in all of these things, it's not just about comms and communication, it's about like power generation. How can you get hot water in the middle of the Mara, you know? And, and that technology has really, really improved. So what it's actually done, it's, it's made this, you know, it's, it's got its positives and negatives, but there are a lot of positives is that it's made it. The ability for it to be a lot more comfortable for everybody.

Dan Ryan: Mm.

Graeme Labe: and then it becomes a lot more accessible for everybody. And, and you, you know, [00:38:00] you, you, you want to kind of sometimes keep the limitations. You've just gotta balance between the pluses and minus. But the, the technology has really, you know, kind of, has really come a long way. I mean, in, in so many respects. I mean. I'm showing my age, but when I kind of started building my first camps, I remember when we were out on site, there was no communication other than an old fashioned HF radio. Right. and it wasn't, you know, uh, since then, even radio communication has, has improved.

Where you've gone from HF to VHF, which is kind of. Automatic, um, you know, you're not on the kind of airwaves and we used to have to order our building materials kind of once a day or once a week and try and kind of communicate through this, long wave, uh, radio. It was crazy.

Dan Ryan: And if there's like a solar flare, forget about it.

Graeme Labe: yeah, and then the, the. You know, kind of [00:39:00] maybe, kind of once a week the post bag used to come with the kind of aircraft that brought guests in or, you know, and we used to kind of get lists of, information or drawings and, you know, kind of today through comms, you can kind of download anything on site and you can communicate like you're communicating anyway.

Um.

Dan Ryan: I'm curious on the, the remoteness of many of the projects that you work on. And I, I read a couple years ago, somewhere that drone technology is, I guess, payload and range is doubling every 18 months. So in a way, drone technology is following Moore's law with microchips and processing. Are you seeing that in the remote locations, like have instead of the donkey, have you done any deliveries via drone yet? Or is that still a ways off? And would that cha, do you see that changing the way you approach projects if that Moores Moores law is true?

Graeme Labe: I don't think I'm, [00:40:00] I'm up to speed enough on that, but haven't seen it. But I think it's, I mean, it could certainly kind of go a long way, you know, go a long way for us in these kind of, uh. Remote locations. Um, I mean we've seen it in in different ways, but the interesting thing is in a lot of the locations that we work in, um, you're actually not allowed to use drone technology.

Dan Ryan: Oh, 'cause it would spook the wildlife probably, or,

Graeme Labe: one that spooks the wildlife and two, is especially in areas where there are. Rhino,

Dan Ryan: hmm.

Graeme Labe: Is they don't want any, um, data capture information of where these rhino may be. cause

Dan Ryan: yeah, because of poaching. Oh, okay.

Graeme Labe: becomes such an issue.

Dan Ryan: Interesting.

Graeme Labe: It's such a complex,

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Graeme Labe: uh, industry and environment.

Dan Ryan: Wow. I didn't even consider that. Okay. Well that's good to know. [00:41:00] Um, so I wanna, on your career journey, having worked at larger companies, started your own living off grid, doing one project at a time, all by yourself, um, how do you think as far as guiding the creative direction of those teams you mentioned at luxury Frontiers, when is the, when have you found as a design leader the best times to poke your head in a project and, and give your coaching?

I loved how you said coaching before. Um, and the reason why I'm asking is I go back in my, when I was an intern at Hirsch Bedner. In the mid nineties, late nineties in Los Angeles, there were these designers that would build these beautiful boards and spend, be up all night and all weekend and make it, and then Michael Bedner would walk in and say, this is shit.

And then like, tear the thing apart. I love Michael, don't get me wrong, but he would tear it apart. The people would be like mortified in tears. Um, and then he would get his package and go on the way and they'd win the project. But I'm [00:42:00] assuming your, um, methodology is different than that.

Graeme Labe: Yeah, for us is, you know, kind of, um, it's really understand, you know, kind of. understanding where you are.

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Graeme Labe: That, that context, whether it's the physical context of the land, whether it's the cultural context, the historical context. where I place myself on, you know, most of our projects is at that inception stage, is I go with my team so that I can myself. Personally understand where we are, understand the land, understand the layer of the land, understand what the environment around us is telling us, because that what is going to drive our design. And then working, that's where I kind of put the most amount of work in with my, with, with the teams, is really creating that design narrative.

Uh.[00:43:00]

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Graeme Labe: Around what the, the site and the context tells us. And then that becomes, you know, that's becomes the guarding light. And I always go back in and say, let's, let's go back to our narrative. What does our narrative tell us?

Dan Ryan: that's actually not surprising at all and I think a lot of that has to do with the, as far as the site, 'cause you said site like 10 times in that and how to communicate with the site. I'm assuming that a lot of that comes from your earlier experience of living for months at a site. And most people don't have that luxury anymore, or I'm sure it wasn't a luxury, but they don't have that opportunity to be fully immersed and see all the goings on.

Graeme Labe: Yeah, I mean, hate to use the term is that, you know, kind of this is be, you know, be as it becomes a commercial business, which is, you know, um. Where it kinda moved from a lifestyle, you know, kind of, [00:44:00] really became self, you know, I didn't really, when I started, I suppose you couldn't look at it as being a business.

It, it just a way to become self-employed and then as it turns out into a business, it, it just, you know, you've gotta kind of find different ways to commercially more commercially, um, Meet the challenges, but without losing the DNA and

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Graeme Labe: I, I, I'm very lucky that I have the experience and I, I think where I'm, I had the most amount of benefit is the amount of mistakes I've made along the way

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Graeme Labe: had the opportunity to learn from those mistakes.

Dan Ryan: And then keeping those, maybe not the project I speaking more generally than just the project mistakes. In the experience you've worked across continents, different climates, is there one location that you were, that you were working at or fully immersed in that still haunts you

or were they all good outcomes?

Graeme Labe: I think [00:45:00] they're kind of generally good outcomes. You know, every project has its kind of challenges. It's, it's, it's good and bad and, you know, if you said to me what's my favorite project? I, I can't tell you. There are different things in different projects that I, I've so much enjoyed,

Dan Ryan: But is there any, and I guess where I was trying to go, is there any moment in those full immersion trips where you feared for your life, like call elephants, animals, disease? I don't know. Were you ever really nervous that you weren't gonna make it out of this?

Graeme Labe: I know this sounds kind of, I've walked across Lion Buffalo, you kind of, and, and you know, because we are doing this, you know, you, we, I become a bit blase about it. So, you know, um, when we go, you know, often now when we'll go to a new site and we have to go with the local ranger, the, the local ranger's really very careful and like, stay behind me when we walking, you know, 'cause we. [00:46:00] I, I, you know, I tend to walk the site

Dan Ryan: Mm-hmm.

Graeme Labe: Two days, three days, just kilometers and kilometers of walking up and down hills across the site. And I just tend to wonder, you know, um, was crazy the other day I was with a, um, team. We were kind of, we were looking at a new project, I can't tell you where, um, with Mandarin hotels and we. We were kind of, um, going to walk to look at a certain site, but we were trapped for an hour because there was a herd of elephant and we just couldn't get past. So we just kind of had to stay where we were and we couldn't kind of complete our, uh, walkabout, know, and those are the kind of, I mean, better experiences can you have in life than that?

Dan Ryan: Yeah, I, I just remember I love running, and I don't get me wrong, I love the game [00:47:00] drives. They're amazing, but it's a lot of sitting and I, in these remote places I couldn't run. Right. And I remember one morning, one of the Messiah guides, he's like, do you want to go for a run? I'll go with you. And, and then I was like, no, I can't.

Because one, I feel like I couldn't keep up with him or he would be running too slow to keep up with me. And secondly, I was terrified of what's in the tall grass that's gonna see me run by and they're gonna want to come and grab me.

Graeme Labe: Yeah,

Dan Ryan: But he had his run go.

Graeme Labe: things that run faster than you do, right?

Dan Ryan: Yes. And, and he, if that happened, he would run faster than I, I could run.

So, you know, I would, I would be the sacrificial lamb.

Graeme Labe: but I mean, you, you, you're so right. And it's, it's, those kind of experiences like that are, that are crucial. I mean, um, if you ever get the opportunity, you have to go gorilla trekking.

Dan Ryan: I want to do that so badly. I'm waiting for my daughter to get one year one. One or two years older. I forgot what the [00:48:00] minimum age is in Rwanda.

Graeme Labe: And I mean, you know, going to Rwanda, Uganda, it is, you know, if you want to have something that is life changing, not, you know what it does and it's, it's that taking you out of your comfort zone

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Graeme Labe: That it, it kind of pushes, but when, when that the, the moment happens, you just, you just kind of, you are in that moment and. It is just coming to face to face with these magnificent, magnificent, uh, animals, uh, and apes and it, it, will change your life wherever and. You are only allowed to spend one hour with them is, you

Dan Ryan: Mm.

Graeme Labe: you'll correct. You could land up trekking for three or four hours to find them. find them, you'll be there for one hour with them. And it sounds like, you know, one hour sitting in a place is a long time, but [00:49:00] it'll, you'll see them and then later it feels like it's over and, and it It's, it's all encompassing and there's, there's no other noise around you. There's no technology. You might be taking a photo whilst you're doing it, but there's no other technology around you and you just, you, you have to bear yourself.

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Graeme Labe: And it, it's was probably one of the most amazing things that you could ever do.

Dan Ryan: Yeah. I definitely, I think within the next two years I'm gonna go with my family. That's been a goal for, of ours for a long time. We're just waiting. We don't want the kids to grow up, but we also want them to get to be whatever that minimum, I forget what the minimum major. I think it's 15. Um, so we're, we're getting close.

Graeme Labe: Yeah.

Dan Ryan: Well, Graeme, I'm so excited to see you in New York in a couple weeks. Um, as you look forward into not just New York, but like even into, into the beyond [00:50:00] way out there, what's exciting you the most about what you see in the future?

Graeme Labe: I think what is, it's so prevalent now, is that

Dan Ryan: Well.

Graeme Labe: This recognition of this experiential hospitality is kind of. moved you know, kind of, and I don't like to use the word mainstream, but the recognition of what it can do for the individual and how it can kind of um, improve the lives and, um. That people have recognized that they want to experience their and their, their, their, their visits like this. It's, it's really amazing to see. And, and, and, you know, it's amazing to see even the larger brands moving to this, you know, you're seeing, um, you know, six [00:51:00] senses have always, you know, could have, have been in the space, but you're seeing, you know, kind of. Ritz, Colton and Marriott and Four Seasons, they're all moving into the space. So the kind of, the recognition of this experiential hospitality coming to the fore is really, you know, kind of amazing. And I think it's, for myself and Luca to kind of see how this has evolved and to see that we have been, you know, we've been within this journey is, is, is really incredible.

Dan Ryan: Yeah, I totally agree. And I, and I'm sure based on the amount of awards that you've won, you've also inspired others to think differently about how to approach sites and projects and, and how to deliver that different experience. So I, I really see you on the vanguard of that. Nature immersion experience, and it's really incredible and I, I can't wait to meet you in person in a couple weeks.

[00:52:00] Um, but really thank you. If anyone wanted to learn more about you or your company, what's a great way for them to do it? And we'll, we'll put it all in the show notes so they can find you.

Graeme Labe: Uh, we we're on social media through Instagram, under Luxury Frontiers, um, to really kind of see the showcase of our work. It's best to visit our website at luxury frontiers.com

Dan Ryan: Perfect. Well, a wholehearted thank you. Um. From the United States and you in South Africa. Um, I appreciate you coming on and sharing your experience, not only as an entrepreneur, as a company and a team, but also as a, as a contestant and past winner of radical innovation. So thank you very much, Graeme.

Graeme Labe: Well, I appreciate it and I have to say this is not me alone. I have the most amazing team that works with me, that, you know, kind of, we work to support each other and kind of continue to [00:53:00] create.

Dan Ryan: Well, thank you. And I know we all stand on the shoulders of those before us, and nothing can get done alone. So I appreciate those sentiments and I hope, and I'm sure your whole team will appreciate those sentiments. And Luca also. So, um. Thank you so much and thank you to our listeners. If, if you guys weren't tuning in on a weekly basis, I wouldn't be here speaking to amazing, uh, visionaries like Graeme and learning about his team and what he's accomplished.

Um, and if this has changed your idea of experiential, um, hospitality or even made you want to enter into a competition or try to win an award and create a lab around that, um, or you think you know someone else who might have, have that or benefit from this conversation, please pass this along. We grow a lot by word of mouth.

Um, and thank you, and we'll catch you next time

[00:54:00]