Defining Hospitality

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Dan Ryan: today's guest is an innovative thought leader in industry boundary pusher ahead of the times co-founder of Homage hospitality, ladies. Damon Lawrence. Welcome
Damon Lawrence: Damon. Thank you. Thank you so much, Dan. I appreciate being on the podcast excited.
Dan Ryan: Oh, I'm excited to have you two here, mostly because of all the interviews that I've done.
I think you've gotten more shout outs from my previous guests than anyone else. So I'm just happy. You've agreed to be here with your time. So thank
Damon Lawrence: you first. Thank you. [00:01:00] It's a pleasure.
Dan Ryan: Um, one other thing is as an owner and developer, Um, one of the things that I love and like many of the conversations I have about hospitality, so many owners have never actually worked in a hotel.
And what I love about your resume is you've been in the trenches for so long. So firstly, tell us how that informed where you are. Right.
Damon Lawrence: Yeah. So my, my first real job, you know, I worked a couple of meaningless jobs, um, high school and college. My first real job was working at a hotel, actually at a Thompson hotel, working the front desk.
And that's honestly how I even got into hospitality and got excited about it. Um, it was, uh, a new hotel that was. In DC. Um, I was on the opening staff, got to see so much of how that project, that project and that property kind of came together, got to meet Jason [00:02:00] Pomerantz and Steven Brandman, who were the co-founders of that plan at the time.
And yeah, just kind of like realized like this is a whole new. Kind of space that I wasn't opened up to really didn't know much about like boutiques were even new to DC at the time. Do you see as a very conservative city? So we didn't have you had, you know, the St Regis and, um, Ritz Carlton and four seasons, but not really anything in the boutique space.
So that was unique for, for the city. And I just started to get into it more, um, and excited about it. And. Working in hospitality, especially for the length of time that I did. I learned so much about the operations and, um, it obviously informs the way we will operate as operators, um, and informs the way we develop our brand and in the pipeline and how we train talent.
Um, and what that looks like to [00:03:00] really be, to really think about. The, uh, your employees and the people that you employ first would then know what that means.
Dan Ryan: So I'm curious about a lot of things that you just said there. Mostly how, if you were, had hospitality was not on your radar at all, how did you wind up working at the Thompson hotel?
Like how did that. Come across your bow.
Damon Lawrence: All right. So, so like I said, at first meaningful job, I was working at a gym, so I was playing football. Um, this is like senior year. I needed a job after the season just to pay the bills or get a job at a gym, which is obvious football player. You work at a gym. I hated it.
I hated waking up at five o'clock in the morning. When I had class later on the day. Um, so the flexibility of a hotel job was appealing and I just applied. I, you know, I had, no, I just needed a job, like when you're in college and you just need a job. I was on Craigslist at the time, [00:04:00] applying everywhere.
And I was like, this seems cool. And then they asked me for an interview and I did what every college student was told to do is write that. Thank you letter after the interview. So I said, I sent that and then they called me back and, uh, asked me to come in. From what? And I still keep in contact with be the HR staff that hired me.
Um, cause I think that they took a chance on me. I had no experience, they saw something in me and it, it totally transformed my life. So I definitely keep in contact with them, but I think it was like I had the personality that fit. Right. Um, I was very talkative to everyone. I got to know everyone while I was sitting there and waiting in the waiting room.
Um, I was excited about the opportunity. I mean, as soon as I walked in. The HR director handed me a hard hat because there was still was still a construction site. And I was just like, oh, this is, this is pretty cool. Um, so yeah, it was by chance. I'm thankful to, to, uh, the team there for [00:05:00] taking a chance on me.
And then it ended up working out.
Dan Ryan: You said they saw something different in you. What do you think.
Damon Lawrence: I think it was the personality. Um, and I didn't know it at the time, but I had a personality that was perfect for a role in hospitality. I'm very outgoing. I I'm naturally hospitable in nature. I love having people over.
I love to entertain. I love to meet new people. Um, I'm the person that will talk to random strangers and spark conversation. And I think that that's what they saw in me, uh, at the time, cause I was doing that in the, in the office. I want to know everybody, like what do you do? Like, you know, um, and how long have you been working in this industry?
Like how long have you been working here? Do you like it? You know? Um, so I was asking all those questions and I think that that's what stuck out to them.
Dan Ryan: And going and going with that train of thought and thinking about what they saw different than you, that you're [00:06:00] outgoing. You're curious. Um, and then you started in hospitality, so you've been doing it now.
You've, you're, you're on the totally different side, but how does, how has that informed your definition of, of hospitality seeing the whole experience?
Damon Lawrence: Yeah. I mean, that's a really good question. I think right now we obviously have a labor shortage in our, in our industry. Right. Um, and I know why we have that labor shortage, that industry.
Sometimes I've worked in different experiences and sometimes it's just not as employee centric of an entire industry at all. I think, you know, most times employees are expendable working long hours. You're dealing with people. Um, you're also on the heels of a pandemic wreak. Didn't have to deal with people for such a long time, and now you have to be back in people's faces all over again.
And that's just stressful. I mean, I've realized that even going back to some of these hotel conferences, how stressful it [00:07:00] is to be back in front of hundreds of people a day. Um, so I think that in, in understanding. The different facets. And I mind you, I done every single job just about in hospitality at work.
And so as a marketing or worked in housekeeping or worked in the front desk or working food and beverage. The only thing I wasn't was an actual GM. I was an assistant GM at a property, but never actually got to be a GM. Um, mainly because I didn't want to take the time. I feel like there's just so much of a time commitment to being a GM, especially in some of the hotels that I've worked at, but in understanding what everyone goes through the housekeepers, um, your bellman, your sales and marketing team.
It informs the way I think about the industry and how what's best to move us forward. Um, and I think that there's a lot of people that have, um, [00:08:00] I think they have solutions, but they've never been close enough to the problem.
Dan Ryan: I love that you've seen all facets except being a GM, but I think you've seen everything that even you could take that leap to be a GM, if you want it to.
Uh, how do you define hospitality after seeing all of those facets?
Damon Lawrence: Yeah. You know, hospitality really is a feeling. what, I've always noticed, whether it's traveling or I'll be working in this space, is how do you make somebody feel when they enter into your space or a space that you have dominion over?
just because you are a hospitality brand doesn't mean that she wouldn't exude or create a hospitalable experience. So hospitality really is how you make people [00:09:00] feel.Whether they're dining at your restaurant or dining at your home. like, I said before, understanding what everyone goes through, and making sure that you can put people in the best.
position to succeed creates that hospitality experience that you want to provide to your consumers.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And then, so for the brand that you've developed with Homage how do you look to make people feel experiencing Homage?
Damon Lawrence: Yeah, I think that the way I think about hospitality and from the hump homage landscape and vision and view is a good example, is, is Hong Kong.
Right. Um, is a homecoming for people that went to Howard university. What the university, I think is the best university in the world. Um, but it is very inclusive. Anybody is welcome. Um, you're going to have a good time. [00:10:00] There's never any riffraff, you know, you're just going to have a really fun, enjoyable experience.
Um, The similar to the cookouts, right? You go to a cookout, you're invited to the cookout, you get a plate, everybody who comes gets a plate, it's a way of making you feel good. The music that's played, um, the dances, um, the full experience of what that looks like and what that means that you can provide an experience as extremely inclusive.
And allows everyone to be apart, but you, you highlight and celebrate the things that culturally, um, are significant to you and it looks different. It looks different if you go to, uh, the grandma's cookout in LA versus if you go in Memphis, Tennessee, but the feeling is the same. The, the hospitality is the same.
You grew up in California, correct? Yeah. Grew up in California, LA
Dan Ryan: in LA. How did you choose Howard? Like [00:11:00] that's a big trip all the way across
Damon Lawrence: the country. Yeah. I mean, you went to the truth, the truth.
All right. So I transferred to Howard, so I actually got a football scholarship in Louisiana, university of Louisiana, Lafayette, where I was playing there for two years. Uh, was there when Katrina. And in Africa, Trina, another hurricane that people don't really talk about was Rita and Rita hit us kind of directly.
And then after that, when I looked at the, the economy of the state of Louisiana and be graduating with my degree in some values, I'm ready to get out of here. Um, ironically at the same time, I had a coach at my school who was going to be a coach at Howard university. And I was already looking at a couple of HBCU.
On the, on the east coast, this is what made the decision. So in Louisiana, You know, we really had effectively two spring breaks. Cause you get all of Mardi Gras week [00:12:00] off and then you have your other spring break, like in March or April. Right?
Dan Ryan: Right,
Damon Lawrence: right. So I like Mardi Gras break was perfect in February.
It was the perfect time for me to travel in and take a look at some of these schools. So I left, met my mom in DC and were looking at schools. I went to Howard university. There was a group of like 15 women drop dead, gorgeous, all different shapes, sizes, colors, just beautiful. And I get a little bit closer.
They're all speaking, fluent, French. And I was blown away. I mean drop dead gorgeous. It was like Halle Berries in the front, you know, Paula Patton's in the back. She, you know, it was just a sprinkling of all these different one. I was like, this is a crazy experience. And I looked at my mom and she already knew, I was like, oh yeah, this is the school I'm [00:13:00] going to because the, the, the thing that was so unique about.
Is, it is an HBCU. Historically black university is extremely diverse. Um, and we, we often think of, you know, black people with DNS monolith, but there's so many different variations to, to who we are and what we are. And there was no better experience than to, to experience that and seeing people from all over.
All over the world of African diaspora timbers in one space in the nation's capital. Right. And so, uh, I just thought that was going to be a great experience and I wanted to be a lawyer too. So I followed, Hey DC, lawyer, Howard. It makes sense. And now you're
Dan Ryan: doing
Damon Lawrence: hotels.
Dan Ryan: So actually going back and contrasting, uh, Louisiana.
Uh, Lafayette with [00:14:00] Howard. Cause when you talk about homage and I called it Omaj before, that's just my French. No, nothing of French, but it just sounds French. But for a homage, um, you said that you wanted the hospitality that you're delivering to be like a homecoming from. Or a party that's inclusive.
It's really fun. There's dancing. Like you said, all these things, you painted a great picture for me, contrast the homecoming at Louisiana state from Howard. And how did that inform your path to where you are now?
Damon Lawrence: Yeah, I think, um, uh, at the university of Louisiana Lafayette, it was, there was two different.
There's two different universities within the university. Right. Um, and it wasn't that much diversity. It was either there was black and it was white. And I was, that was pretty much it. And from everything that we did, it was very much segregated and not, not purposely, but. There's the [00:15:00] white club and then there's the black club and there's the white parties that happen during a homecoming is the black party that happened.
Um, I think the difference is. When you're at a university, like our university everybody's black. So there's no differentiation between what you do. And then you're also in a large market, like Washington DC, where, I mean, DC might be one of the most diverse cities in America. Just be just given the embassy.
Just give him like, you know, everyone that has to travel in and out of DC, whether it's for work, um, or some government related, um, entity, all the nonprofits that exist and are headquartered there, you're just in this huge melting pot, but then at a university where there's, there's no differentiation, cause you all kind of are in the same pot.
And I think that that was what was interesting and appealing right there, there will never be a situation in life. Would that would be the case, [00:16:00] you know? So, uh, especially in America,
Dan Ryan: but then as far as that experience and you saying that there never will be an experience like that in America, is that in helping inform what you're trying to do at home at home
Damon Lawrence: or yeah.
To give people a little bit of a taste of what that experience is like? Um, I think man, there I was, everyone could experience a Howard hum. I really do it is, is a beautiful sight to see, to see that many people come together. Um, with one common goal in mind is to celebrate their, their university and to see the love that automatically shows.
And that love just extends our work. Whether you are at the university are not like all of the alumni, we just, we just love and appreciate each other. You know, you know, somebody else has a house. Automatically, and it definitely informs how, what, how much to feel what I want, how much to have that same feeling.
Right. No [00:17:00] matter what, no matter where, what city you're in, um, you're experiencing something that's, that's true. That's local, uh, uh, a welcoming experience. And there, it builds almost a cult following where there's an appreciation and a love for the brand, no matter where you are.
Dan Ryan: So one statement and one idea for me, the statement is it upsets me to hear you say that you think that that's not possible in America at some point in the future.
Like, do you really think it will never happen? I see, I envision this star Trek future, where that does happen. Tell me why you think it
Damon Lawrence: won't know the reason what I meant by that? Let me rephrase, because what I meant by it not happening is there's not a scenario where you're in a, a space and nor do I really think that there should be, but there's never a scenario where you're in a space and everybody around [00:18:00] you has the same shared experience.
Right. That is what that is the beauty of even going to a school like that is for four years, you don't have to code, switch. For four years in your life, you don't have to fake the funk at all. You could beat your authentic self. You could find out what, who you are like, what is your authenticity? All right.
What does that look like when you're separated from really from whitness, right? And you get to really just truly be who you are and race is actually not an issue. Right. It's not, it's not something that you have to face every single day for four years of your life for a very transformative years of your life.
Um, and how does that give you the confidence to move forward? I think that even when you start to talk about how our people know how our university, they know, uh, various graduates, Puff daddy or whoever else you want to think. Chadwick Boseman. I think what is [00:19:00] not talked about is that four years in the confidence that it just gives you as your, your soul independent person to go out into the world and create the things that you want to create.
And that, that gap of time that's, what's, you'll, you'll never experience again.
Dan Ryan: Understood. Okay, good. Cause I, I was a little disheartened because I feel like of all the things that so many of us. Are pushing for like, I think we want to get to that place where we can be in a place where there's no code switching, where we can be in a place where everyone's comfortable.
Obviously we have a lot of work to do a tremendous amount of work, like, um, so I'm glad you clarified that on the, on the question or the idea part I had was regarding homecoming. It's usually in the fall, right? It's October, November, somewhere in there. So typically independent lodging Congress always does like a con fabric gathering of some kind in the fall.
They've pushed this year's Miami one, but oftentimes in DC, [00:20:00] maybe we can talk about doing one in DC at that time. And then we can like go check out a party or like kind of get involved in the homage kind of.
Damon Lawrence: That would be, that'd be extremely fun. Even think you all are ready for how much fun you would have.
Dan Ryan: I'm always ready for fun. We'll bring that. We'll bring that up with the powers that be right.
Damon Lawrence: I actually, you know, one of the things that I had talked about and, um, as, as it relates to ILC and don't want to get too much on a tangent, but just that right. Um, the work that I'm doing with Howard university building out their hospitality program.
Um, the Arnie Sorenson foundation, um, the Marriott foundation donating $20 million for this project. Um, in working in tandem with Marriott to create, uh, a hospitality program at Howard university, that's going to be one of the best in the nation. And I think it would be fun to get [00:21:00] ILC in the mix because I would love.
More young students of color to understand all of the opportunities. And a lot of that is in the independent, uh, lodging space. That's available to them.
Dan Ryan: I didn't even realize you were doing that at Howard university. How did I miss that? So I want you to tell me more about
Damon Lawrence: that. Yeah. So. This last fall, um, after, after earning Swanson's actually not it and not even at the spot. I think, I think she, man, this year has been a crazy, yeah, the spring. So they had announced that they were going to do this in the.
He passed away in the spring and the end, then Marriott decided to actually name the donation in his behalf. It was something that he was really passionate about. Um, and he wanted to see happen. And so they, they actually made the donation on his behalf and the school actually be the [00:22:00] Arne Sorenson school for hospitality at Howard university.
And where I got involved is, um, You know, obviously my first, some of my first games were working right in DC. Uh, went to Howard or worked for Marriott for a long period of time. Um, I had the former, uh, CEO design hotels and CA CFO of Marriott, uh, on my board. And so he made the call and made sure that I was a very integral part of what that program build out looks like.
And I'm probably the youngest, middle. Um, that's an owner developer. On the, on that team. Um, but I'm super excited about it. I think we're going to do some very innovative things that get people extremely excited. Um, young people are extremely excited about this across an industry that we are,
Dan Ryan: I think we are in an incredible industry and I'm really passionate about creating more internships within this industry.
And I think now [00:23:00] is the most, I don't know the most opportunistic time to get involved because like we're in this. Everything is still one of the, the ability to advance in this incredible industry, um, has never, I think that better than where we are now, if you were to paint the best possible outcome for this hospitality program, what does it look like?
Damon Lawrence: Oh, man, I think that there's room for 10 more homage, like brand. I think that there's, um, we've seen so many brands pop up and get bought and exchange hands. I think that there's just so much room for more diversity when it comes to. Um, if you were to Google black owned hotel brand, I think my name was probably on the pop up 90% of the time.
And I think that that needs to change. I would love to see more owners or developers. Um, I would love to see the ALIS conference look very different and the next complete here, some of these lodging and [00:24:00] investment conferences look just look different over the next 10 to 20 years, um, with more people of color.
Uh, being represented in the space. And, um, so I think I'm, I'm super excited around what the program can do and how can we make working in hospitality sexy again, um, make it fun again and get people really genuinely excited about what it looks like and the perks that come along with it because.
Dan Ryan: It's interesting.
When you talk about some of the ownership type conferences, I'm mostly on the design furnishing side and you go to those and yeah, we have work to do, but you see it's a pretty broad pallet of types of people who were there. But going to these ownership conferences, it's like, I'm shocked if I see a woman, first of all, and mostly it's all dudes, white dudes in suits.
And I don't know, I liked the design and [00:25:00] furnishing parties a little bit better,
but I was also, I'm also shocked, like to hear as far as black owned, one of the challenges that I've seen as far as. That diverse palette of people working in our industry on mostly on the design, um, and the furnishings part where it is more diverse than the ownership side. However, if you really ask me to come up with a list of black owned design firms, architecture firms, design firms, different hospitality consultants, there are a couple, but there's really not that many.
And it's very, it was very shocking.
Damon Lawrence: Yeah, there, there really is not that many. I mean, I know of about four Americans that can think of off the top of my head. Um, determined by design, um, obviously Kia Weatherspoon and, um, there's a, there's a couple others, but there's really not that many. I think we're across the board.
When you look at diversity, we're lacking [00:26:00] in a lot of the decision-making roles. Um, When you look at our, how our, at our industry as a whole, it's extremely diverse, right? But most of that, our diversity, if you look at a, at a chart is sitting at the very bottom, right? Um, a lot of the low entry, you know, hourly jobs are, have the most diversity.
The further you go up that totem pole, uh, and into the. It windows and dwindles and it's, it's actually a Bismal. Um, and so I think that that's what I would like to change is, um, what that looks like across the board, uh, and the roles, what type of roles we'll be filling and how do we change the industry all the way across?
I mean, it's like from restaurants, resorts shoe, even though. Uh, if you look at the, um, the hierarchy at Airbnb, I mean, just across the [00:27:00] board, all of hospitality, we could use more diversity for sure.
Dan Ryan: It's interesting how you, you know, you you've touched on things that you love about ILC. I, I won't just limit it to them.
But one of the things that I've loved about ILC is that at these events, they often will, these conversations will come up and we're where you can say that you want to change how it looks somewhere out in the future. One of the ways that I've found it is by having friends at these events, and then we can have these conversations and make mistakes and say the wrong thing, but it's okay because we're like fumbling through to try and figure out.
How we can get there. So how do you help facilitate, what are some of the ways that you're helping facilitate these
Damon Lawrence: complex? Yeah, I try and make myself available to be involved in all of them. Right. Um, even how I even got involved with IOC was, was onstage at LA, um, on a diversity panel. And I [00:28:00] said, you know, I appreciate being here.
But isn't it crazy that all the diversity on every panel is on this diversity panel. Right. Um, and what I appreciate about IOC and Andrew and the team is like, they listened to that and they, and they try to make changes and they, and they made the panels from that point on just diverse in general. Right.
Um, and I even had a call earlier today, a der conversation with them. And so I'm making myself available, making sure that I talk about it as much as possible. Um, that I keep it in the forefront is sometimes it's exhausting, you know, to continue to talk about it because it, the issue sometimes I wonder if, if I'm actually gaining anything by continuing to talk about it, or if I just hearing myself speak about the natural issues that.
Um, and are other people actually taking it seriously, but I think I have an onus [00:29:00] to continue to talk about the struggles that we have, and I understand how I would love to see a change and how it really would benefit everyone involved if things changed. Right. I think that's the beauty of it. Um, Those parties would just be so much more fun.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Well, and another interesting thing that you mentioned this, this idea of code switching, right? So a lot of people don't get what that is. And to be honest, I have a hard time getting my head around it. But as you're talking about having these conversations, is it worth your while and all this, like walk us through the whole code switching thing, because it's, it's really like a fucked up mind game and to keep track of everything that was.
It just makes all these conversations and where we all want to go to that future. That makes it that much more difficult.
Damon Lawrence: Yeah. I think it's just the natural reality of living in a world. That's just dominated by [00:30:00] our whiteness. I think I don't even think about it that much. Like every time you answer the phone, depending on who is calling on the other end, There's a different voice that you have, right?
Um, it could even be even at work, there's a different telephone voice that people, people of color by half and then talking on the phone versus that they just talk to their friends. Um, and, and maybe we all do it. I don't know. I just know that. And it's a far extreme, there is a huge difference. And you can tell, I just remember growing up and knowing when my mom was talking to her friends and when it was like a business related call, when she was trying to get something done, there's a very clear distinction between her voice and what that lived by Marmon, my mom and my dad.
Um, and that that's, that's how I learned behavior over time. You realize if you want to get stuff done, Yeah, you have to switch it up. And I think that the crazy part about that is it's [00:31:00] been reinforced over and over and over again in the way things either happen or don't happen to people of color. Right.
Um, and we've, we've all heard the stories about. Copy's getting appraise undervalue because it's a black family, owns it versus the white family next door. Um, and so been need to code switch really just for survival and to make sure that you get the right things or the things you deserve has been something that we just always had to do.
So it's it's sometimes I don't think about it as much. You don't think about it until you don't have to do it right.
Dan Ryan: Well, it's, it's interesting also, because when I asked you about homage and where you saw it and where, how Howard informed that when you were talking about Howard, you really lit up, you're like, I helped me find my authentic self.
Right. And I find that like this, this code switching, like it's, it's taking you out of your authentic self. [00:32:00]
Damon Lawrence: Yeah. That's real, you know, what's interesting. And this is funny even to say, but I. Maybe two emails a day of people across the industry that went to work for me, right. That have either Googled homage and, and found some article.
And we'll just, unsolicitedly just send their in their resume via email and say, man, if there's ever an opportunity, I would select to work for your brand. And I think that that is. I don't know of many, many people in hospitality have ever, it's a dream to be able to work in a property and not have to go switch, to be able to bring your authentic self to work.
And that's okay. And that's what, that's what you're actually celebrated for. That's what the brand is celebrated for that you can literally just be yourself, still provide the same level of service, same level of [00:33:00] hospitality. So some of the language, some of the ways that we communicate some of the ways that we dab each other, all those things are just okay.
Right. Um, and I think it can be exhausting. And I think that's, that's part of the issue that we see as far as the labor shortage. I'd imagine dealing with everything you had to deal with this last year. And when I go to work. At every day, you know, I have to fake the funk every single day on top of a raging pandemic.
I don't know who's going to pick up my child from school today because there was an outbreak or, you know, I don't know, like there's so many things to worry about. That's the last thing that people want to worry about. Um, and how does that change if you just allow people to be themselves
Dan Ryan: and then all of your experience in hospitality?
And as you're building your company, [00:34:00] like
Damon Lawrence: what
Dan Ryan: what's really holding now, that's not the right way. It's really, I guess, where have you seen a place aside from Howard university homecoming, where you can be your authentic self all the time.
Damon Lawrence: Yeah, that's a good question. Um,
you know, I think for us, especially as it relates to hospitality, we do have restaurants. We do have bars do have lounges, and then, you know, some cities have more than others. Um, you see that as a huge black population and that in Atlanta, Houston is still a fairly large black population in DC. I think we seek out and we have sought out, um, more opportunities to eat a black on restaurants and to eat back home bars and spots, especially over the last year.
So there's been [00:35:00] a serious effort to do so, um, to have that experience, I think most of the times what we, what we've done is we'll cure, rate those experiences for ourselves. Right. We'll get groups together. And even if it's not a space that is inclusive, we'll create that inclusivity amongst ourselves. Um, and so that's what I've seen my friends do, uh, especially in a city like LA, where you just don't have that many options, um, like some other cities do, but maybe we will, we will, we will create, we will curate and create the vibe for ourselves to have that experience.
Dan Ryan: And. Thinking about that as an agent of change within our industry, right. And the work that you are doing on the hospital, hospitality, uh, diversity action committee or HVAC, like how are you seeing, I know you all have your day jobs and everything else, but how, [00:36:00] what kind of work are you doing in that to help curate these authentic experiences?
Damon Lawrence: That's a good question. I mean, I think has been a challenge because of, uh, because of COVID of course, but even when we, for HD expo, you know, we curated a series of conversations, um, all related to diversity, um, LGBTQ, um, women in the workspace, um, some of the struggles between, you know, even Asian Americans experience.
Um, we really had a real good gambit of conversations that people enjoy it. And we did it in a barbershop setting. We curated a space that looked like a barbershop because that's the place was so many of these authentic conversations happen in general. Anyway. Um, and I think we're going to look to do more things like that.
I think the last year, [00:37:00] 2020 after the Jewish boy murder and protest. Obviously, there was so much attention that was brought to the eye., but what happens in that Bates? What happens when those, all those monetary commitments are forgotten about? And in the world that we live in, things are things change so fast and one day it's this, the next day, it's something else.
How do we keep that conversation going and keep pushing the ball forward? And I think it's just literally keeping the conversation about. Is using any opportunity that we have to talk about it until we just literally sound like a broken record and then stuff starts to change. Um, that's the only way.
And you know what? I might, I might be Moses. I might not be the one to see us to the promised land. You know what I'm saying? It might be somebody else. I might not be able to see it all the way through, however I can, I can get the ball rolling, you know, and push us in the right direction.
Dan Ryan: And maybe [00:38:00] park the red sea to keep rolling.
Um, so, okay. Let's aside from the pandemic, aside from all the conversations about diversity that we're having right now, and that are going on right now, what's keeping you up at night as we move forward.
Damon Lawrence: It really is labor. It really is labor. Labor is the thing that keeps me up at night. How do we get, how do we find Damon when he was 19-20?
How do we find a whole bunch of people like that? That right. I'm excited about the opportunity to work in a hotel. Um, and, and how do we change the work. Um, that makes it more appealing for people wanting to work in this space. [00:39:00] I think it's a super fun industry to get into. I love, I love honestly, I've all the jobs that I had.
I really love working on the front end, the front desk that was like the most fun interaction. Um,
Dan Ryan: what did you love about it? Why did you love working at the front desk so much?
Damon Lawrence: You know, you get into this interesting. Where you just, you just know people, you know, you're seeing repeat guests, come back.
You're welcome. And then that is it just you feeling good. The day goes by quicker. Um, you get, you get to sympathize and empathize with people. You get to change people's day with an upgrade. You get to, you have the, you have the most flexibility, right? You know, the inventory. You're not worried about the same thing the sales worried about.
You're not worried about the same things that food and beverage is worried about. You have the most flexibility to really, [00:40:00] to alter the way people feel. And I think that was the funnest part about it. Um, and meeting different people every day was in that no two days are alike. I mean, that was another fun aspect.
Dan Ryan: You said something earlier about how, when you were describing the type of person you are, you're like, I, I love talking to random people on the street and it's funny. We moved out to New York city in the pandemic and I was talking to my daughter who's nine and she's like, dad, you know what I miss the most about New York city.
I said, what? She's like, I used to love walking with you and you would just talk to any random person on the street. And I miss, I, I miss you doing that. But I kind of feel like, as you think about finding more daemons, maybe that's, you know, you think about recruiting for those jobs. It's like, do you enjoy talking to strangers?
Right? Maybe that's how we find another Damon.
Damon Lawrence: I think they're done as a critical component to it. Um, [00:41:00] and just being outgoing. I think all of them, when I remember working at the Thompson property, my first hotel, everybody that I worked with was like that. And it was, it was interesting. And I think 80% of us were born within the same two weeks of each other, which was also very interesting.
We were all Geminis. It was like the worst scheduling ever, trying to schedule people off because we were all born within two weeks of each other.
Dan Ryan: You've also mentioned labor shortage a couple of times at the very beginning of our conversation, you said, oh, this labor shortage. And I know why, why is it happening in your mind and how do we solve.
Damon Lawrence: Yeah. I mean, I touched on it briefly. I can't imagine. I cannot imagine going to work every day in the middle of the pandemic, like with the people, with their varying opinions, whether they're gonna wear a mask or not, where I'm at, right coffin [00:42:00] at the front desk, touching the same pin that you just handed off, you know?
Um, I can only imagine that the stresses and the things that people have to think about as they work in it today. And it really is the same stresses that we thought about before just compounded because there's life stress, right? There's other things that are happening that are beyond your control and you can't go to happy hour.
There was a period of time where you couldn't go to happy arts. Get it all out with your coworkers. Um, and what does that look like? There's just so many other things to consider, to think about in a, uh, in an industry where we were already stressed. Right. Um, I think developers and owners and operators are trying to find sort of squeeze blood out of a turnip.
Um, so there was already labor reductions and trying to get the same product to. And then now you're doing a whole lot more on top of people. [00:43:00] It's just tough. It's just tough.
Dan Ryan: I think it's, again, a multifaceted. I feel like there's a recruiting solution. So it's from internships and younger. Um, I think that there's also an immigration component.
Like we just can't find people to work. Like how do we get more people in here that want to work in these jobs? Right. But really, I think it's opening the eyes of the young people about what a fantastic industry that we're in and just giving them that shot.
Damon Lawrence: I agree. I agree, because it is, it is an amazing industry.
Um, and most people don't even think about it. Like the other thing about Daymond back then is I had no clue that this was what I was going to do. I was going to be a lawyer. If it wasn't for them taking a chance on me, I would have been. Esquire right now. So I'm opening people up to the opportunity and doing so [00:44:00] even at a younger age, isn't important.
You know, I went to a, a high school that had a business and finance academy attached to it. So I knew I was going to do something in business. I didn't know what that looked like. I thought maybe from a real estate law perspective, I would, I would do some cool stuff. I had no clue, but I was opened up to the world of business.
I was CEO of my high school's business and in high school where I saw, um, I think if there were more, even more opportunities to do something like that on a younger scale, what does that look like? And, and I think who knew that the kid playing with logos or Legos, um, could create their own world. Right.
But if it could literally go from that to like you create buildings, like you are the architect of spaces, um, you just don't know those things because it's not open if it's not opened up to you.
Dan Ryan: And also when you [00:45:00] spoke of being the front desk manager and how you could just brighten someone's day or make, uh, an impact, it's amazing how those small impacts.
Like a butterfly flapping, it's winning somewhere over the Atlantic can turn into a hurricane and you don't even know what those outcomes are. Right,
Damon Lawrence: right. Yeah. I mean, that was, that was the fun part, you know, especially working at the Ritz Carlton, you had so much at your disposal to brighten up people's day.
Um, and I remember working through some crazy times where I can do Sandy. Working through, you know, people, I don't remember a guest that came in and had lost everything. Right. And she just was like, had to go back to work, to travel again. She came to the front desk and I sent something up to the room. I can't, I can't remember what it was.
She came back down. She gave me a hug. She cried in my shoulder and just thanked me profusely. And it was such a small gesture, but just the fact that [00:46:00] somebody's listening. Took notice and, and took action. Um, and I think that in that, in that order, if we listen, take notice and take action, and that could be across the board, I mean, we could change a lot of the things that are the ills in our, in our industry.
I'm wondering, has anyone asked people? I would love to see a panel, right. But people that have left the industry, why did you leave? What did you not like about it? We have talked about. Like all the issues. You haven't even heard it from them yet. Why, why, why did you leave? Why did you leave after 20 years decided to jump ship and denture and new industry, why now?
Right. And that would be, it'd be interesting to hear from them and then we can make moves and adapt from there.
Dan Ryan: You said we can all listen, take, notice and take. In a hotel. I think society [00:47:00] at large could benefit from that. What's interesting about hospitality is we can listen, we can take notice. We can take action and have a small, immediate outcome.
Right? How did you become such a good listener?
Damon Lawrence: Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. Um, no, I, uh, I've had some very interesting instances in our life that if I didn't listen, it could have cost me my life. Right. And I think that that changes the way you listen. And I'll give you a brief example. Um, crazy example. I'm not much time we have, I got a crazy example.
I'm in a car with my mom. Um, we're um, I'm five years old. We are driving our grandfather off at a corner store to get [00:48:00] cigarettes. He smoked at the time he was alive and he was going to walk. My mom was like, nah, I don't want you to walk. I'll drop you off at the end and I'll bring you back. And then we'll go home.
He gets out the car and he goes in. This is a, uh, a Cornerstore that's sitting on a actual corner, right? So it has the corner of lot parking lot. We're right in front of the store. A car comes in from one side, opens fire on the car. My mom sees it out there, out the back of her out the back window out the corner of her eye she yells for me to duck.
Right. They spray 40 rounds into the car. Okay. My mom was shot two times and her leg, my baby sister, who's sitting in her car seat right next to me, a shot once in her leg. And obviously because she's in the car seat, she couldn't, there's nothing that she could do. And she was too young to even do [00:49:00] anything anyway, in six months at the time, if I wouldn't have ducked, if I wouldn't have listened, if I would have hesitated, if I to ask why I wouldn't be.
Right. And I think that those there's there's, and that's like, obviously a super extreme, but that's shaped to happen at five years old. I remember every moment that that happened, um, it just shaped the way that I think about the world, the way I think about opportunity, the way I think about life. Right.
And how fragile it is and how I just, for no reason at all, I could not be here. Um, and how just that level of obedience. Right. And listening and paying attention where they could have saved my life. I think reflecting on that, because I think about that a lot. Yeah. I love listening to people and hear truly hearing them because sometimes they'll say [00:50:00] it and sometimes it's what they don't say.
Dan Ryan: I think we can. Become better listeners, no matter what, no matter how good we are, we can always become better. I think our industry, whether you're serving, whether you're cleaning a room, whether you're just in a hotel acting as a maitre D or front desk, we all practice listening better. And it's very transferable to everything.
And I feel like if we can really listen, we can diffuse so much.
Damon Lawrence: Agreed agreed. I mean, yeah. I mean, we, we can, we can talk about this all day. There's even on the, the vaccine anti-vaccine I have very interesting views on it. And I think that if w when we sit down and we actually listened to each other, there's just so much that we can glean and we can actually understand each side.
And I think that's across the board. The requires us to really be, [00:51:00] to listen and then also think about people's past experiences and how that shapes, how they view the world. Right. Um, so yeah, listening is extremely important,
Dan Ryan: something that you said really resonated with me. They said you're good at that. And I think the better listeners that we become, we can also hear what's unsaid. And we don't have to pull everything out, but by knowing that something's unsaid, we also know that there's an issue there and we can navigate that however
Damon Lawrence: we choose.
Right. Yeah. And that, and I think that's across the board. I said every relationship that is, uh, as you, as you're dealing with gases, you're dealing with employees, you're dealing with bosses, um, and superiors just as actively listening. Is is extremely important and understanding.
Dan Ryan: So as we started that as like, what's keeping you up at night, as you think of the future, [00:52:00] this program, you're doing it, um, at Howard, from H Dak, from homage to everything that you have going on, what's exciting. You most about the.
Damon Lawrence: And as I'm listening to you, I'm realizing why the H key Armada or my keyboard doesn't work because everything, everything starts with an H.
So, um, what am I, what am I excited about? Uh, that, that is the question, right? What am I excited about? Yeah, what's most
Dan Ryan: exciting about the future.
Damon Lawrence: Um, I think that we actually are making changes, you know, for a while I thought that this was going to be a lot of lipsticks. And it wasn't going to be real. Um, but I'm seeing that slowly, but surely things are changing, you know, even gradually at, um, Some of the HD design stuff that has happened [00:53:00] over the last couple of years.
Like you just start to see more and more people I'm starting to see like the crowd get a little bit more colorful, you know? Um, and, and it's, it's exciting to see, especially as we're starting to get back into the groove of both, um, doing conferences again. And I think the small incremental changes as people are talking about it more.
Um, and a shout out to Bashar Wiley, shout out to DDA grant and shout out to, uh, Aaron Anderson. Um, all people who sought out to Stacey, uh, she'd been around. Right. Um, as she's, you know, helped us get the word out as much as possible. I mean, there's just so many people that have made it a point to talk about the needs and why diversity matters.
And they've kind of always been talking about it. They just now are, are more emboldened to say, to do more and to say more. I [00:54:00] think
Dan Ryan: it's a difference. I think they're, yeah, they're talking about it, but they're also doing stuff. You guys, everything, they're all doing things about it. Right, right. And it's these little drops that turn into a waterfall.
Damon Lawrence: Exactly. Exactly.
Dan Ryan: So. Damian, if you could go back to your 19 or 20 year old self, when you transferred from university, Louisiana, Lafayette to Howard, and you, as you now walk up to yourself, walking in there with your, your gym bag, into the, into the locker room or whatever. What advice would you give your 20 year old self?
Damon Lawrence: Now I would have started earlier.
Dan Ryan: Tell me more about.
Damon Lawrence: I would've started earlier. I think that, um, there's such a huge transition from working in operations to only an operating. Um, I mean that learning curve [00:55:00] literally took me five years to learn. And if I would've known that this is what I have known sooner, that this is what I wanted to do.
There's different things that I would have done. To learn more about development. Um, and I think that's, that's a critical component, um, for most people just to learn, even if you don't do anything with that information under the understanding, just as much as I feel that owners and operators should understand what the people in operations actually do.
I feel like people in operations should understand how things are owned, operated into that. And if there's, if there's that ability in that synergy between the two where you're not less than the dark, you understand how things work, you understand your value and how that kind of keeps the machine going.
Uh, I think that there's tremendous value in just the knowledge. And so I would have [00:56:00] taken time earlier to get a fuller understanding of development. Um, you know, I wouldn't have. Well, I told myself, man, youth is wasted on the young, like start ASAP
30, 30, man.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Well, Hey, go for 40, under 40. And you're curious, we're all learning. And um, I think one of the things that is attracting me to you is your curiosity and your, your desire to change so many things, right. I think all of us curious people that like talking to the random dude on the street, I think we have a lot to learn.
I think we have a lot to offer and I'll also say it's never too late. Right.
Damon Lawrence: I agree. I agree. It's never too late. And then there's life experience that happens that you can't account for, you know? Um, and so even as I think back on my [00:57:00] journey, realistically, um, it probably happened at the perfect time.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. And there's ways to keep going. So I can take that conversation with you offline. Um, but I do want to just say this has been incredible now. I really want to push ILC to do an event in DC somewhere adjacent to Howard homecoming, because I think that will be really
Damon Lawrence: awesome, right? It would be fun.
It will be super fun. So Damien,
Dan Ryan: we'll put this in the notes, but just let us know how people can connect.
Damon Lawrence: Yeah. So business Instagram and Twitter stay homage as stay homage. And then my personal is hospitality, H a U S fatality, and that's across every platform LinkedIn included as well. So,
Dan Ryan: yeah. Wonderful.
Um, so Damon, I just want to say thank you so much for your valuable time. I appreciate it so much.
Damon Lawrence: I mean, [00:58:00] You talked about some interesting stuff. This was what I appreciate about you. And this podcast is we went, we went, we veered left in a very interesting way. It wasn't, it wasn't the typical questions that I'm always asked.
And I always appreciate that. I really do
Dan Ryan: well. I appreciate you. And I'm grateful for you. Um, and thank you also to our listeners. I hope this talk is evolved your. I don't know your view on how to deliver hospitality, what hospitality means to so many different people and how we can all care for each other better on our journeys.
So if this has changed your opinion or helped you learn something, please share this podcast with a friend and thank you everyone. And we will see you next time.
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