Defining Hospitality

Dan Ryan: [00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.
I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality. Today's guest focuses on both branded design, experience, and creation of new products. She's responsible for leading Hyatts integration into adjacent spaces in the health and wellness industry. She specializes in developing creative solutions and strategies for retail, hospitality, and luxury brands.
She is the vice president of Product Brand Development at Hyatt Hotels Corporation. Ladies and gentlemen, Sarah Clemson. Welcome, Sarah.
Sarah Klymson: Hi. Thank you, Dan. Thanks for having me.
Dan Ryan: Oh, it's so great to have you here, and I'm so excited. Um, [00:01:00] Our industry is just so incredible and I get to meet all these new people and I really feel like through mutual friends and contacts and mentors that we've come across each other's path.
And it's just so great to get to know you and, and just hear about this incredible journey that you've been on about from where you came to where you are right now. So just, I just wanna say welcome and thank you.
Sarah Klymson: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. I've heard of, um, the legacy of Dan Ryan and, and so glad to have over the last little bit gotten to know you better and, and I'm excited to be part of this podcast.
So thank you for inviting me.
Dan Ryan: Oh, you're very welcome. And one of the things that really intrigued me, um, obviously you're at Hyatt right now and you're doing some pretty incredible things, but hi. When you told me that you worked at McDonald's in their innovation department, like that blew my mind because if you think about hospitality from a restaurant perspective, like there's no one bigger or better than them.
I mean, you better is relative, right? But as far as the [00:02:00] innovation, I just want you to tell us a little bit about that, about like how you, how you got there and then how, where you are now.
Sarah Klymson: Yeah. It's really kind of a funny story because, you know, I took the role with McDonald's and, and every time people see that either on, you know, my bio or my resume, my LinkedIn profile, people ask me like, did you work in a McDonald's restaurant?
I'm like, no, no, no. . I. Did work for the company and the organization and actually, you know, it's really an eye opening experience. Um, you know, that was my first role on more of the client or brand side. And, you know, what I was doing there was actually looking at how architecture and design can really be used as a tool to connect with our consumers or our guests in different ways, right?
And so McDonald's is really actually quite great at, you know, investing a lot in innovation and thinking about where the brand is gonna be in say, 15, 20 years. Um, you know, it's a super large organization so it's hard to, you know, sort of change [00:03:00] quickly. You don't see a lot of change quickly at the organization.
But they do invest in innovation and thinking about that. And, um, one of the things that they were really trying to do was engage their consumer in a different way. You know, actually in the Americas region, 70% of their business is generated through the revenue at the time that I was there. And they were trying to think how can we use architecture and designers to create a place for people to come and dine in the restaurant and have a different experience and engagement with the brand.
So, you know, it was really fun work and very creative and progressive. I think we built six different, um, restaurants based on the concepts that we had created. So, um, and you know, the other thing, Dan, like you said, it might seem foreign to sort of the path of my career, but you know, McDonald's is f and b and it is that sense of hospitality in a different way than what I'm doing now, but it's still using the brand and, you know, using architecture and design to engage with our consumers.
So it was a very fun rule. [00:04:00]
Dan Ryan: What I, when we, when you were telling me about that as well, I was very intrigued by, um, the idea of how granular they get. At plotting out an roi, right? So we're all about delivering hospitality and how do we change this experience, but the financial metrics behind all of that is just incredible to me.
So tell me a little bit about that. Cuz then I think that'll, I cuz then that will help evolve the, the conversation that we have as far as where hospitality. And what it means to
you?
Sarah Klymson: Yeah. That, that was one of the things that honestly was the most intriguing about the work that I was doing was at McDonald's, was that it was all about innovation, but it had to be based in metrics, right?
It couldn't just be like, oh, we're gonna create a new design because that's a cool thing to do and we hope people will like it. It was actually like looking at their existing prototype. How can you build something that is on par with that from a cost standpoint, but has a much better engagement and much better [00:05:00] experience for the guest?
So they're, they're very spec, they very, they take very seriously tracking data numbers. Um, and any time that I needed any of that information was like, okay, what's the cost of this? How do we do this? It was very easy to tap into those teams and pull numbers. McDonald's is also very, um, you know, they think a lot about the moves that they make.
Like a lot of people probably don't know this, but they have a innovation center that is just a big warehouse basically, that has like, Five different kitchens that you can set up and run testing. And they do that quite often. So like different area countries will come in. Like France was one of the ones that they always would send their people to the innovation center.
They would test and run product to really make sure that, you know, if they were introducing a new menu item or they were trying a different layout of the kitchen, that operationally it worked really, really well. So, you know, McDonald's is very strategic about how they think about the data and [00:06:00] information, but also how they roll out products and how they think about their operations as a business.
Dan Ryan: I love that because to me, from my experience in hospitality, there is a numbers component. Obviously each hotel is an operating business, right? And it has to have a net operating income. But I don't see that level of granularity as far. Cost structure, roi, like down to like, how, how do you actually measure and map this?
Because to me, in the hotel space, it's so much more about like how the other people are feeling, and it's kind of hard to map an ROI to that, but in, but it's, it's surprising because McDonald's does do that. Like what are your thinking? What, what's your experience on going from that world to where you've been and all the cool things you're doing at.
Sarah Klymson: Yeah. Um, you know, I think that the thing is, is that it has to be a balance of both, right? I mean, in hospitality you do have to create [00:07:00] and evoke that sense of comfort and people to feel, you know, a genuine sort of experience when they stay with us, right? But at the same time, from the business side of it, you have to think about.
How the decisions you're making from a design standpoint either impact the owners or impact the overall ROI of the project? You have to think about those things. I mean, from, that's the business side of it, right? So we really do, at Hyatt, try to, even when we do a renovation, we look at what guests are saying.
We look at sort of what they're saying when they stay with us, the surveys they fill out, what is, what are the areas that we can improve? How can, when we do a renovation, we be strategic about those things that we know guests are saying and try to improve them. So again, we always wanna be and create very authentic and genuine experiences for our guests, um, that make them have that sense of comfort when they stay with us.
And also obviously like inspire them, but we also want to make sure that it works from a, from a [00:08:00] business standpoint. So we try to balance those two. And it's, and it's, it is funny, Dan, because I think McDonald's was so heavy on the analytics and then Hyatt was, um, just starting to really think about how data can inform the decisions we make when I started at Hyatt.
So bringing those two together I think has been a fun part of this role to sort of see how you can impact that guest experience by listening to them, quite frankly.
Dan Ryan: And that's the surprising thing about this idea of hospitality that I've been discovering on this journey. Okay. We all have these ideas of what it is, but it's really about listen or what I'm learning.
It's so much about listening and just really being empathetic and tapping in. So segueing with that, how do you define hospitality?
Sarah Klymson: You know, since you and I first started talking and you raised this question, I've been like, kind of rolling it around in my head, thinking about what hospitality means to me.
Cause I think it, it's a word that evokes so many different thoughts or feelings for different [00:09:00] people. Right. And you know, for me, I think hospitality is obviously about caring for people and evoking a sense of emotional response when they stay with us. But one of the biggest things that I actually was reminded of this week when I traveled is how important inspiration is in a, in a hospi, a hospitality experience.
Right. inspiring people and creating experiences for them that they will take into their lives. That's what hospitality is about. It's not just about caring for people and you know, creating a wonderful experience when they're there, but it's also inspiring them, getting them to think about things in a different way.
You know, when they go back into their normal lives, they take that sense of inspiration and hopefully it, it bleeds into other areas of their lives. I think that's really what's at the core, and I think that's why people are so passionate about this industry, is because it inspires them. You know, the sense of passion can come out and what we create, either through design or the experiences that we create on property.[00:10:00]
And
Dan Ryan: in listening to people and hearing what they want and delivering what they want and ultimately inspiring them, there's this also this idea of this butterfly effect. Because the impact that we have in this built environment and the experience that they have, they can go and then they can impact others.
And I'm really intrigued by what you're doing at Hyatt, especially from a wellness perspective in particular about the acquisition of Mial and then rolling it out. And then also, um, my, you did, you bought the Cranwell and made that the mi of all Lennox up in the butchers and my sister got married there and it's such an incredible place and, and so impactful in so many ways in my life personally.
But tell us about how, from a wellness perspective, how you guys are trying to. People and then when they go home, that butterfly effect and that, that kind of tidal wave that
Sarah Klymson: can happen. Yeah. You know, it's such a good point Dan, because I do honestly think that, you know, when [00:11:00] you have these travel experiences, they impact and change you, right?
You bring it back into your, your life, that impacts other people too. So it's not just about your own personal experience, but the impact it can have on others too, right. Um, and you know, Hyatt has always, our purpose statement is that we care for others so they can be their best, right? And so we've always had this sense of care at our purpose and you know, honestly, wellbeing has always been part of what Hyatt has been focused on.
Right. Um, and I think honestly, Even Covid sort of brought the future forward, right? It accelerated everything. So I don't think that what we're doing now is because of Covid, but I think it's give us, given us an opportunity where our guests now are demanding this. It's something that we know as people return to travel, are gonna wanna focus on a sense of wellness or wellbeing really as part of their stay.
And so what we're trying to do right now is really take some of those learnings that we've seen evolve at Merriville and how can we start to think about our [00:12:00] other brands across our full portfolio? How can we bring that sense of wellbeing or wellness to other brands in a way that is super authentic, right?
I mean, that's the biggest, I think that's the biggest threat to, um, something being unsuccessful. Is it for somehow to feel. Inauthentic, right. You know, we wanna make sure that these experiences are genuine and integrated in the brand voice, right? So something we would do at a Park Hyatt might not be what we do at a Hyatt place, but that there is a thread and a consistency that there is a sense of caring for your wellbeing while you're staying on property.
And you know, I think in hospitality, Previously wellness used to be just about the spa experience or fitness, and what we're seeing is it really needs to be an end to end experience right from the time you arrive on property, that you have that sense that your wellbeing's taken care of all the way till the end when you leave the property, right?
So your experience in FMB or your experience in the guest room should have some sort of sense and integration of an [00:13:00] experience, not just something as simple as like putting weights in a guest room or a treadmill in a guest room. You know, that's not what people are looking for. We don't wanna have an additive approach, but more an intuitive approach that is integrated into the overall experience.
So that's some of the stuff that we're really thinking about now, you know, at Hyatt trying to figure out how can we expand sort of what we're doing from a wellness or wellbeing standpoint across our portfolio.
Dan Ryan: I've heard you say the word genuine, maybe about five or six times, in our conversation. And then authentic and I feel.
And then also that it kind of came out of that idea of the purpose statement. And, and I get the, I really get the idea from Hyatt in particular that it's very values driven. And what's surprising to me is oftentimes you have these values or core values or, or mission statements, and they're just posters that are on a wall.
But I really, in all the conversations I get with you and, and all your whole team at Hyatt, I really do get the feeling that it's not [00:14:00] just a poster on a wall. It really does. It is a value that you're, it's like a lexicon and the language that you guys are talking about. And I'd love to just hear more about that.
Like, how do you guys make these purpose statements and values come to life at Hyatt?
Sarah Klymson: Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of the benefit of us being kind of maybe the smaller company of the big hospitality groups, is that we do have this like inherent sort of, I always talk about the entrepreneurial spirit, right?
Like we do, and maybe it's some of our legacy in our, um, the initial, uh, sort of way our organization was formed. But there is just this very strong sense of entrepreneurship that sort of bleeds through everything we do. And, you know, and I will have to say also too, mark Maan, our CEO, is a big, he, he talks about this a lot.
He talks about empathy, he talks about caring for our guests. He talks about the difference between, uh, care and service like that. There is a huge difference. He, [00:15:00] you know, and I think that that sort of message trickles down to the rest of the organization, right? You know, these, this is what our leaders are talking about on a regular basis.
It's not something that is. A corporate initiative, right? It's something that they're actually living and breathing and talking about. So, you know, it makes a big difference when you see your boss or you see the CEO talking about these types of ways that they're thinking about, you know, wellbeing or caring for people.
Um, so I do think that comes across in the organization and just the way we work
Dan Ryan: with your team that you have. How do you guys make those values come to life?
Sarah Klymson: Yeah, I mean I think a lot of what we do is try to be very collaborative. We try to, you know, make sure that we're working together and even the way that our groups are set up, you know, our team, my team is part of, um, has global responsibility and then we have three design services departments that we work with in the regions.
And we really try to be as collaborative as [00:16:00] possible. Always keeping those lines of communication open where we're talking about how can we support you, what are the things you're seeing on actual projects that, you know, we can come up with different ways of thinking about it or talking about it that can support your needs.
So I think there's a lot of dialogue between, you know, how can we support each other? And you know, quite honestly, the other thing. Hyatt is, you know, our teams are very streamlined right now, so there's no time for, you know, conflict. We, you know, the way that we have to work is very collaboratively and sharing resources, and I think honestly, that's almost made the teams tighter knit and, and relying on each other in a different way.
That's been really, I think, quite productive.
Dan Ryan: Um, I'm speaking from not really knowing that much here, but when I look at, I think you referred to being one of the big, one of the big brands, but having a smaller and kind of, I don't know, just, I don't, I actually don't remember exactly how you said it, but being one of the big brands, but just [00:17:00] having a smaller feel, I guess that that's what it was.
Yeah. Um, what I, and where I'm not knowing and just kind of dumb in this area, I feel like hya. More than the other brands actually owns more of their assets than the other brands do. And I think with that ownership there comes a, a different sense of care and wellbeing being for all of those assets as well.
So walk me through that, like educate
Sarah Klymson: me on that. Yeah, and I don't know where we're at specifically with percentage of how many we own at this point. Um, you know, that is something that Hyatt has always sort of invested in. You know, we don't wanna ask owners to do something, we wouldn't do ourselves on our own properties, right?
And so it's important for us to be owners and operators, not just to operations company. Um, and so we really try to, and even as you know, Mariville for an example, we own all three of those assets right now. And as this brand develops, um, you know, there's gonna be other owners, but we own the first three.
[00:18:00] So we can say, these are the things that we did. This is how we want the brand to evolve. You know, it's important for us to, as we develop brands, either to, um, make sure that we're investing in the development of the brand or we're owning the brand. Right? So, you know, like when we launched Caption by H, um, right before the Pandemic, a new brand that we del developed our, um, select service lifestyle brand, you know, we invested a lot of money in making sure we built a prototype room, making sure that we had all the documentation together so that owners really could develop the brand the way that we would want it.
Um, and just like I mentioned Merriville, when we bought that brand, we bought the assets and could have continued to own and operate them since that acquisition. So it's important for us to, you know, really be invested so that we understand the struggles of owners or we understand where they're coming from because we're operating and owning these hotels as well.
Dan Ryan: And with Mial in particular, because that is a super exciting acquisition to get into the wellness [00:19:00] space. Right. And I think that, Before you acquired them, they were obviously a leader, a well known brand and icon within the wellness space. Walk me through like what makes Mial different and how that, how you're excited about how that will impact its guests.
Sarah Klymson: Yeah. You know, I, so I will be completely honest with you. When we first bought Mariville, I don't think a lot of people understood within Hyatt exactly what it was. Right? Like, I think a lot of people had this preconceived notion that it was a resort or a destination spa, but when you actually really learn what Mariville is, and I just, I just came back, I was just in Tucson.
I spent some time there with, um, a bunch of our consultants and a new ownership group that's looking at building a mariville. And, um, when you spend time at the brand, you start to really understand that is way beyond just a destination spa. Everything at Mariville is, [00:20:00] is founded around the idea of mindfulness, right?
So it's, it's really about like allowing guests to create a life and balance that's sort of the ethos of the brand. That means from everything from your spa treatments that you might participate in to the different type of programming that's on offer, everything is about this sense of mindfulness. Even down to the point that when you arrive on property, you're told that part of, um, the property policies is that it's a digital free, uh, environment.
So you can use your cell phone or your iPad or your computer in your guest room and your privacy, but out in the public spaces, you're intended to be present, not be looking at your phone. And even just that, Dan has a huge impact on your experience. You know, so many times you're sitting at dinner talking with people, um, and you might think about something, you're like, oh, I'll just look on my phone.
It's like, oh wait, I'm not. Supposed to be on my phone. I'm supposed to be present in this moment, engaging, making connections, talking about my experience with the people that I either [00:21:00] participated in programming with, or the people I might be there traveling with. So Mariville is really an experience that is about everything from programming to f and b to SPA treatments is all centered around this idea and concept of mindfulness and really trying to get our guests to, you know, be present in, in their lives and understand the impact of, of this type of engagement.
Dan Ryan: I don't know how long it's been, but I, it's probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 years. I always, and actually in the pandemic, I didn't do it for one year, but I make it a point of one week a year to not touch my phone or computer. Usually it's, I'm vacation with the family and it's really hard.
Like I start itching. I know like in the first couple days, but then I, if I, I realize that we're all supporting each other and it's okay. Like we can do that. Um, can you share. Any stories from MI of all where someone has put down their phone for an extended period of time and maybe they hadn't done that before and the impact that's had [00:22:00] on someone?
Sarah Klymson: Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, even for myself, I, I would say that just being disconnected from your phone, there is sort of this, of course, you do feel the itch and the urge at the beginning, and then once you've set it down there is sort of this liberation that you feel from not being so connected.
Um, and I think a lot of guests go through that. I, I will share instead, um, a, a different experience that I think has been really, really powerful. We have a program at Merriville that's centered around, um, equine therapy, so working with horses and really, and, and really what the, what the experience is about is trying to get people to understand.
When you work with an animal, the animal knows where you're at, whether you know personally or not. They, they understand. They understand. They can pick up on your, your tones, your vibes, their, the things that are going on internally within you. And so what this experience is really about is guiding, um, the [00:23:00] guests to begin to engage with the animals, to begin to be a catalyst to open up conversations for, you know, things that are going on in your life that maybe you're not even aware of.
Right. And every time I am at Mariville and talk to people who've done equine, they're like, you know, at first I just thought we were gonna go work with some horses and it was gonna be really peaceful and beautiful by the second person that went. Everyone was crying in the circle and we're all now friends.
And it's like this very amazing, powerful experience from something very simple like just working with horses. But the way that our specialists really, you know, facilitate the conversation, get people to open up, get people to be quite honestly vulnerable and, and engage in this experience. You know, it's very, very, Formative.
I mean, you know, people come of out of that experience. Actually yesterday when I was on the shuttle back to the airport and there were these two women in the, in the van, they didn't know that I worked for Hyatt, and they were talking about their equine [00:24:00] experience and how moving and amazing it was. So there's a lot of programs like that at Merriville that, you know, again, I'll use the word transformative.
Uh, Merriville is a place that you go to be transformed and take that into your life. Um, once you leave, uh, the property.
Dan Ryan: So this is super surprising. I've heard of equine the, uh, therapy and working with horses and I've even seen, I think on Mial where you go and you, you paint the horse, right? Yeah. That's part of it.
But I didn't realize it was a, I didn't realize it was, it could be a group exercise. So walk me through that transformation cuz one of the things that I'm learning in this journey of discovering what hospitality is, um, It keeps coming up, this idea of open-hearted listening, and I think you even said it, it's just very opening and vulnerable, but like, how does that, how does that work?
And I've never done it. And I'm curious.
Sarah Klymson: Well, so this is the beauty of Merriville too, is that, you know, people, people go to Merriville for all different reasons, right? Like you and, and I think [00:25:00] that's, again, part of the beauty of the property is you might. You know, someone who is there because they just, uh, received some fairly bad medical, um, you know, diagnosis and they're there trying to deal with, um, what the future may be for them.
You might have a group of women that are there doing something like celebrating an engagement or a wedding. So you have sort of these like very sort of, uh, diverse purposes for this stay. Right? And, you know, people are coming there for a very range of large range of different reasons. Um, but what these sort of therapies do, or these, and I won't really call them therapies, but what these different programming and offerings provide is a sense for people to come together and connect.
Right? And so our specialists really work through those conversations and, and ask questions that begin to draw some of that out. The programs. Make people feel very comfortable. So, um, they allow [00:26:00] people to open up and to be more vulnerable and to allow those connections to happen. That's one of the things I think that's also very different about Merriville.
You know, we talk a lot about Merriville being a luxury product, but one of our biggest assets at Merriville is the connection with our, between our colleagues and our guests. We encourage our colleagues to really engage with our guests at every moment that they can, like every moment. And I know a lot of times in luxury products, it's more like a experience where we're just, you know, serving them, right, serving our guests.
But at Merriville it's about connecting with our guests and understanding their purpose under. Why they're at the property, and then crafting experiences around that purpose and that intention so that they really get the most out of their experience. And so that's really what these programs do. So for example, like with equine, they will start with talking about the horse and going through the exercise, and then each person has an opportunity to participate.
And it's about, and it's, it's a very simple exercise, but it's very, um, [00:27:00] in depth with, uh, sort of pulling out the themes that we wanna try to get people to respond to. So what typically they do, and, and, and every equine program's a little bit different at Merville, but what they try to get them. Each person to do is to get the, um, horse to raise its hoof so you can clean the hoof and to get a horse to raise its foot, the horse has to feel comfortable with you.
You can't be somebody that's like hiding something, right? And so you will watch people that go up to the horse and they're like, oh, I'm just gonna muscle it up. I'm just gonna get the horse to li the leg. No, that's not what, no, no. The horse is like, oh, buddy, that's not gonna happen. Right? . And so it's really about this way of like connecting with a, being an animal that's, you know, bigger than yourself, bigger than you know, that your surroundings.
And really trying to get them to, um, have a interaction that, uh, evokes some of these, again, themes that we're trying to pull out for guests. So
Dan Ryan: if you, okay, if I'm a guest at a mirror of all, and you have, does each mirror of all have an EQUIN [00:28:00] program? ?
Sarah Klymson: Yes. All three of the all. So we have Mariville Tucson, who, which has been there for like 25 years.
They just celebrated their 25th anniversary. Um, and then we opened, uh, the year before the pandemic, um, Austin. And then in, in 2020 we, in the summer we opened Berkshires. So each one of those do have, um, equine therapies.
Dan Ryan: So if I'm a guest at Mial and I, let's say I just go by myself and. I see on a menu of offering, there's equine and then I go to this equine program.
I assume it's in a stable or in a pasture. And are other guests there at the same time or is it a pri? Like how does that all, how does it work in, like what do you do? How long is it? This
Sarah Klymson: is amazing. No, I feel like, I feel like, Dan, I need to get you to go to a mariville, so maybe we'll have to organize that so you can go experience, um, perfect.
Some of the programmings. But the thing, the thing that's interesting about Merriville is Al too, the way that we really set it up is that you spend a lot of time when you, um, [00:29:00] initially set your reservation with what we call an experiential planner. And the experiential planner helps to you. You have in depth conversations with them about, you know, what is the intention of your stay, what are you looking to get out of this stay?
What. Programs and activities do you wanna participate in? Um, we share some of the programs and activities that are on offer as, as part of their stay so that they can, you know, determine and, and obviously like the program is all listed on the website, people can look at it or whatnot, but you spend a lot of time with an experiential planner even prior to your, um, arrival, you plan out your itinerary.
Um, and you know, that can be a variety of offerings. It can be everything from culinary programming to fitness programming to spa offerings. And I will say that's the other thing that's different about the spa. The spa, yes. Is intended for the treatments that you have to be relaxing and, and, um, you know, Help with self care and whatnot.
But [00:30:00] there are also, um, innovative treatments. Several of the treatments that are on the spa menu you can only receive at Merrillville. So we've created programming centered around this idea of mindfulness. Um, so it's not just indulgence, right? It's, it's about like really tapping into those themes of mindfulness, even in your spa experience.
So you spend a lot of time creating these itineraries. When you get to property, you have the opportunity of course to again, talk to the experiential planners. If you see on the agenda something else you'd prefer to do or you wanna switch your schedule, you can totally do that. Mariville offers a ton of programming that is included in your rate.
There's some additional programming that are additional charges. Um, you can do private sessions, you can do group sessions. It all just kind of, again, goes back to the intention of your stay depending on what you're trying to get out of your stay. Um, it's really crafted around that.
Dan Ryan: That is incredible.
Just hearing what is the intention of your stay? If we really think about like what is the intention of our [00:31:00] day, what is the intention of this conversation? It's really this mindset. And I know you've said genuine, you've said, uh, mindfulness, but it's really this transformation and like idea of intentionality where, I mean, I'm guilty of this.
I don't think about off. I, I might try to as much as I can, but there's so many times where I'm just like, just reactive and not intentional. Um, and being intentional I think is the ultimate form of mindfulness. Right. Cuz you're just fully aware and present. So yeah. How has that experience of the acquisition and scaling of Mial, how, is there any story that you can tell about how.
Transforming Hyatt in general, or you as a person as well?
Sarah Klymson: I will say for, I'll start with me personally. I mean, honestly Merriville has had a huge impact on me. Like, uh, you know, when we, when we, um, acquired [00:32:00] Merriville, I was the point person and the lead for the projects we were developing, and I worked really closely with the Mariville group team and, you know, I talked with them a lot about these themes and the impacts and even became very close friends with, um, one of the guys who's been involved in Mariville forever.
And Simon and I talked quite often about these themes, even in how it translates into other areas at Hyatt and whatnot. And quite honestly, I've even found myself the impact it's had on me personally. The way that, and I know this maybe sounds silly, damn, but like the way I engage with my partner, the way that I engage with my daughter, the things that I see that I honestly am not sure I would've fully.
Been present for, I will attribute it to this work, the work that I've been developing with Merriville and what we've been trying to bring to Hyatt, it's had a huge impact on me personally and the way that I think about things. Quite honestly, even the way that I think about how I engage with my teammates, [00:33:00] um, you know, trying to understand that everyone's, um, wellbeing journey or wellness journey is different and personal and understanding that you have to engage people where they are.
That's a huge part of this too. Right? Like, and I think, and just to go back to that idea of like, Authentic and genuine. The reason that's so important for Hyatt is because we don't want these initiatives to feel like they're corporate initiatives, right? They shouldn't even be called initiatives. It's just the way that we work and what we do, right?
Like it should be just ingrained in the experience, um, to be that authentic and, and really be a sort of caring for people's wellbeing. It can't be something that is just layered over all of our brands. It has to be, you know, authentic and be told in the brand voice.
Dan Ryan: So to hear you say like, when we think about, um, in just being genuine and authentic from top down, like the, [00:34:00] a corporate initiative, you said something earlier in the conversation, which was we really encourage our team at Mirabel to connect versus serve.
So, okay, we have this corporate initiative, but then. The boots on the ground who are actually interacting with the guests. Connecting rather than serving. And I just wanna ask like, what do you mean by connecting versus serving? Like walk us through what's different
Sarah Klymson: about that. Yeah, it's real. I think it's a very big difference.
The, the words don't seem that different, but the difference is, You know, when you have the opportunity to really connect with someone, you understand where they're coming from, right. You know, and the idea of service. You might not be doing something that helps someone personally. Right. You might be offering them something that isn't really even what they need.
Right. And if you don't have, take the time to really connect with someone, understand their purpose, understand their intention, how can you really take care of them? [00:35:00] You, you can't, you have to really, and that's why we try to encourage our guests at merriville to con our colleagues at merriville to connect with our guests, is because we want them to understand and have those open conversations, um, so that they can really, you know, create their experience to be the best that it can be.
Right. And to me, service is about, you know, um, it, it, I don't think that it has that element of necessarily care because it's not necessarily totally personalized. Right. Um, I will tell you even as small things at Merriville that we try to do, um, and it might sound kind of silly, but uh, the name tags at Merriville.
Um, actually allow each of the colleagues to select the word that sort of represents what Mariville is to them. Right? And so on the name tag, mine would say, Sarah, my name, obviously, but it would also say my word for Mariville, right? So if that's which is, uh, family [00:36:00] or, you know, whatever the word is, which you put me on the spot to tell me, tell your mial word.
But, and the reason it's me, your Mial word, and the reason we do that is so it's a point of engagement for colleagues to say, oh, what does that mean? Like, how does, or for guests to say, what does that mean? Like, tell me about that, or, you know, vice versa. For our colleagues to ask the guests like, you know, what does mariville mean to you?
It's just a point of, uh, open ended question that starts a dialogue that maybe you would never have, right? And it's again, a small thing, but it's trying to open up those channels and get our colleagues to understand that when they begin to. Understand our, our guests purpose. They can, you know, take care of them even better.
Right. So,
Dan Ryan: and how I, I, I'm, there's probably no answer to this, but of all the guests that are staying there, how many of them have actually contemplated their purpose or their [00:37:00] intention of the stay? It must be refreshing, and I think that's cool at Mial, but again, that can be applied everywhere. I could be staying at any hotel if someone said, Hey, what's, what's the intention of your stay here?
You know what, I just want a place that's quiet that I can do my work. I'm sleeping and then I'm out all day. Yeah. Or, hey, I really wanna take this time to, to look inward. It's
Sarah Klymson: amazing. Yeah. I think it's a great way to start to, you know, think about hospitality a little differently, right? Is that, you know, everyone comes to their sort of experience with hospitality from a different place and making sure that we understand our guests at that level is really important.
Dan Ryan: And it's also asking your guests to be vulnerable in a way, right? And think about the vision, right? Because I think oftentimes while we think about mindfulness and just being right where we are right now, one of the thing, okay, so I think a lot of us don't do that, number [00:38:00] one. Number two, I think a lot of us don't think about the vision of where we want to be today, tomorrow, 10 years, 50 years.
And I think that, um, that visioning exercise is really powerful and it, it is nice to just stop and think about that. Has, have any of those initiatives from Mial trickled out? Since you've been there into Hyatt at large.
Sarah Klymson: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, and I wanna just say one thing too about, you know, you mentioned the word like mindfulness, and I know we've talked about that.
And I think the other thing that's a little difficult with even that word is that it conjures up a, a, a sort of sense that, you know, people might not always be comfortable with that, that idea of mindfulness, right? Like people might think that, I like to use the word actually awareness because I feel like that's, More approachable word for a larger group, right?
Even to say, look, you know, bringing awareness to the things that you're doing, getting you to tune [00:39:00] in to your senses, your experience that is basically mindfulness and it's getting people to, to understand that mindfulness is, is so much broader and will have such a bigger impact on people than they're even aware of.
And it doesn't mean you have to sit down and meditate for an hour to be mindful. Like you have to tune into things, tune into the present moment, be aware and conscious of your impact on other people. Understand what's going on within you and what's going on around you. That's, that's what mindfulness is really about and that's what we're trying to bring to guests in a way that's digestible and consumable to them, right?
That doesn't feel like, you know, heavy or, or something that I have to do. Right? Something that is like eating your vegetables, right? Like you have to do this cuz it's the right thing for you. Actually, it's, it, it has a huge impact. So,
Dan Ryan: One of the, um, one of the digital detoxes I did was actually this year I went to this, I went through this thing, it's called the Hoffman Process, and it's a week [00:40:00] long, like no phone, no anything, but it's really like we all have these things that annoy us about ourselves, and it really, I love that you said awareness, because the first thing that they say is the, listen, you're not gonna, this is not like a transformative, it's a transformative experience, but it's not gonna happen day one.
What we're gonna do is let's explore all those things that annoy us about ourselves and create awareness about them. Yeah. Once we have awareness, it's like nothing. If we can't measure something, we can't change it, and we can't measure something if we're not aware of it. So actually that's an incredible idea of like the feeder into mindfulness is this idea.
Awareness.
Sarah Klymson: Yeah. And you know, just to go back to your question about like, have Merriville initiatives sort of trickled into other areas at Hyatt, because I think it's like really important for people to understand, you know, part of the reason that we really invested in and wanted to, um, Have [00:41:00] the acquisition of Mariville was because we wanted to learn about this adjacent space that we didn't have expertise in, right?
We wanted to understand more about wellness and wellbeing and the intention was never to take that and try to replicate it in our other brands, right? It was to understand what they were doing and, and think of other ways that some of that could impact our other brands, right? Like, so I think at first, you know, some of the things that were being done at Merriville we started to do in other brands and we were like, this does not work.
You know, like taking, cuz it's outta context, right? Like taking the cell phone, sleeping bag. In your welcome package at Merrillville, you get a, what we call a cell phone sleeping bag. It's basically a little sleeve to put your cell phone in and you're supposed to like tuck it away, right? And that's part of your digital detox is you're consciously putting your phone away.
Um, and those cell phone sleeping bags showed up in, uh, one of our park HTS in, in Japan. And. Totally lost in translation, quite honestly. Like putting [00:42:00] something that is very purposeful at Merriville and putting it into another brand does not work, right? We, we know that. So what we're trying to do is really take some of those learnings and then understand how would that translate for a wellbeing based experience and a Thompson, how would that translate in a h place?
Like those would be very different sort of activations. Um, but it needs to be, again, centered around sort of the intention of those guests that are staying at those properties. So again, like going back to it, it's not so much that the, uh, actual product of Mariville is going into other brands, but some of that thinking and understanding and how it would then translate to experiences within our other brands.
That's what we're trying to focus on.
Dan Ryan: So in doing these podcasts, I'm talking to like a lot of creative, just incredible people. And one of the things that I'm like very envious about, Um, is just the superpower that [00:43:00] you ha like you have and others have, where it's, you take these ideas of awareness and authenticity and being genuine.
And just to throw the word back at you that I heard you say, you translate them into like actual physical things and a physical experience. Like how did you learn or realize that you had this gift and ability to translate these ideas abstractions into physical things?
Sarah Klymson: I, you know, I think that's like the most exciting thing of what I've been able to focus on in my career, right?
Is the understanding that you can create, um, beautiful. Super beautiful physical spaces, but if they don't support the experience we're trying to create, the guest is never gonna get out of it what we want them to. Right. So the most important thing that we can do is understand that physical space and experience have to come together.
Right. And the, and the physical [00:44:00] space has to support that experience. Right? They have to be developed hand in hand. And I think this is where I get the most passionate about things, right, is where the design and the experience come together and create something really special. And it has synergies and, you know, energy in a way that a guest might not have experienced if those two things didn't come together.
And when
Dan Ryan: did you learn in your life that you had this talent or attraction to that, that passion? Like, and, and these gifts. Like when did, when did that come up in your life?
Sarah Klymson: It's funny cuz I grew up in a family of people that, you know, use a totally different part of their brain. I was always the creative child that was like drawing or building something strange out of tissue boxes and, you know, whatever.
My sister was off like probably doing math projects or something and I was always the more creative one. And I, and I actually went to school for interior design. That was [00:45:00] what my bachelor's was in. And then I, I was like, okay, I love interiors, I love, um, this idea of sense of materials and, and designing the interior spaces, but I was like, I wanna balance it with something that's a little bit more.
Uh, practical, logical, uh, sort of thinking. So I, I did a Master's in architecture, and those two together I think, have been such a nice compliment because I understand sort of the logical aspect of the architecture and how, you know, size and scale, um, have a huge impact on people. But I also understand the soft side of design that is the interiors.
How does it feel? What, what feeling does it evoke? Um, you know, what, how do the materials impact you? And those two together, I think, really set my career off to say, okay, this is where I wanna go. How does architecture and design really impact people in a way that maybe they're not even conscious of?
Dan Ryan: And when you think back to when you were the creative one [00:46:00] in your, in your family and making those tissue box projects, like what was the coolest tissue box projects you, you, you made?
Can you remember?
Sarah Klymson: I do remember this one, which you laugh at, but I, okay. So I didn't really fully understand the durability of a cardboard construction box cuz I was a child. And, uh, I decided to build inside a, inside a tissue box, uh, a aquarium scene, right? So I had built all these like little things inside the, the, uh, tissue box.
Then I went and filled it with water. And brought that out. And of course that made a huge mess. And I think that was probably the end of my tissue box Creations . I
Dan Ryan: love it. Yeah. It's funny, like I was hearing something about their, you know, their favorite, oh, I was listening to the Jerry Seinfeld. He was telling this joke about how he loved it when his neighbors would get, A new refrigerator when he was growing up because he loved [00:47:00] it when on in his neighborhood, the box, the big refrigerator box would be left out on the street and then he'd make his own apartment out of this box, like living on someone's lawn.
And he, it was, it was his favorite
Sarah Klymson: space ever. But, you know, it's so funny cuz I see those traits and even in my daughter, you know, she's four and she'll be more excited about the box that the gift came in than even still now cuz she will make something out of it. And I love seeing that, like seeing that in my child that, you know, my husband as an architect, I'm an architect, poor, hopefully will go on to be something different, maybe , that she has those genes already in her.
So it's, it's so beautiful to see her creativity at, at even at her age.
Dan Ryan: Oh wow. That's so awesome. Um, when you think about, um, the future and as far as like the, this kind of built environment, uh, What's exciting you the most about like, you know, your path, your journey? [00:48:00]
Sarah Klymson: Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I love what I'm doing at Hyatt, like the opportunity that I have and, and sort of in my role the global reach that, that I have and the, and the, and the ability to impact projects.
Right. You know, I always say to people that, you know, Hyatt doesn't design our properties, right? We work with designers, but we help get to inform and craft and curate, and I love that part of my job being able to. You know, help a vision come to life through sort of persuasion and getting people moving in the right direction.
I think it's one of the most fun things that, you know, my career that I've been able to do is really almost be like a creative director, right? Like, where you're really getting people to understand the ethos and the, of the experience that you're trying to create, and then how does that come to life and how, and helping guide them and being a partner with them, helping move the project.
Those are the things that I find the most [00:49:00] intriguing and the most inspiring. Um, and I hope that that will continue, you know, uh, definitely at Hyatt there's opportunity to continue that development.
Dan Ryan: And then as you look at kind of where we are and where you are and like everything happening right now, what's, what's keeping you up at night these days?
Sarah Klymson: Oh man. Um, what keeps me up at night? I mean, I think that, like, just to be super honest with you, I think the, the part that's the hardest right now is just as, as we rebound and travel starts to pick back up, you know, resources are tight. It's, it's hard to get done what we wanna do in the days, right? And, you know, a lot of the work that I'm doing is, is very innovative and, and, and trying to push the needle, right?
Like really trying to get people to understand the value and impact of certain things. Um, and, and it's hard work, it's super creative and rewarding work, but it's also hard to do on with more [00:50:00] limited resources. So I think that's probably what I struggle with the most
Dan Ryan: and thinking about. Kind of wellbeing and wellness and then energy levels and that kind of struggle that you just mentioned.
Um, how do you keep your, how do you keep your energy
Sarah Klymson: levels up? Yeah, I mean, I try, you know, it's been really hard, I'm sure for everyone this like separation between live work balance and, and you know, everyone's working for, a lot of people are working from home still, you know, where there is hardly any separation.
And, you know, I try really hard to prioritize things that I need to, right, like, to take care of myself or my family. Um, you know, I work really hard, but I also try to enjoy my life as as much as I can. Also, I spend a lot of time with my daughter. Um, we just got a new puppy, so I spend time trying to prioritize things are important to me.
Um, even if that means just for small amounts throughout the day. I, I try to [00:51:00] prioritize the things that make me happy. I love to run, so I, I get up. Insanely early to go do that for myself, what time? And that helps , but, but my alarm is set on a regular basis for four 30, so, Ooh, I'm up early and inspirational.
Well, you know, it's that time in the morning where no one else is awake and I get some time to myself, which is also very healthy for me. So I'll spend time running in the morning or exercising in the morning. Um, which I think also always sets me up for a good day.
Dan Ryan: If you can take that idea of kind of intentionality and the awareness that creates the mindfulness in your running, can you describe the awareness and the mindfulness that you have with respect to.
Sarah Klymson: Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, it's something that I think previously maybe I would just, you know, put on headphones and I would just zone out and I would, [00:52:00] you know, listen to music. But now I do think very intentionally about my runs. Like I think about what I'm trying to get out of my run. I think about, you know, sometimes when you're running too, your head can go to maybe a space where you don't necessarily feel super good or you start to have negative thoughts or whatnot.
And I think being intentional about even those conscious thoughts, um, and helping transition them so that you're thinking about something that's more positive has a huge impact on your running capabilities. So I try to, you know, when I'm running to be very conscious and aware and, um, you know, I think that helps me, not just with my running, but my overall mental strength.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Now running is amazing. It's a great elixir and tonic. And being alone with my thoughts when I'm running is some of the best time ever.
Sarah Klymson: Yeah, it helps me think through things. It gives me that time to like just be in my head and, and work through maybe some of the things that I don't always get the chance to think about.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Especially if I'm writing and I, I have a [00:53:00] really great idea, but I can't quite get it to make sense. Just going for a run. It's amazing how it just kind of figures itself out. Yeah.
Sarah Klymson: I agree with you for sure.
Dan Ryan: So let's pretend, let's go in a time machine right now, and you're, you're, you're standing there, you've just, all the water is leaking out of the tissue box you've created
Sarah Klymson: back to this.
Dan Ryan: So you're, you're watching yourself, all the water is kind of coming out and you have the opportunity to give yourself some advice. As the younger you, what advice do you give yourself?
Sarah Klymson: Never lose that sort of, uh, thought that you can make anything be possible. I mean, that's the best thing out of that whole experience is that I thought anything was possible, right?
Like this tissue box can certainly hold the water. I mean, I think that sort of like beginner's mentality is something I never wanna lose, right. That so many things are [00:54:00] possible.
Dan Ryan: Totally. And it's also, I, I read a book a long time ago, I should probably dust it off. It's called Rookie Smarts. And it's the idea that like the, the, the new team members, the youngest kids, the, the kids just outta college, there's a certain, um, I guess smartness that comes with just being a rookie and having, and being unencumbered in your, in your.
Sarah Klymson: A hundred percent. I mean, I always think that, you know, you don't have to be the most senior person in the room to have the best idea in the room, you know what I mean? And I feel like that's one of the things that I've really appreciated about my career is that I've always had, in thinking about the roles that I've had, people that have advocated for me or seen talent in me that have helped me be myself and, and have a voice, which is really important.
And that's something that I wanna, you know, try to always encourage too with my [00:55:00] team is, you know, I just spent a couple days with a, with a designer who is super talented and she's learning about Marial. And the reason that I wanted to be on the trip was cuz I wanna support her. I, I want her to understand that, you know, she is the voice, she can be the voice of this brand too.
Um, and I think that's just so important is making sure that people feel supported at that level.
Dan Ryan: When you were in Tucson, did you take any time and go for a hike up sub Bino Canyon?
Sarah Klymson: I did not do that. I did do, um, floating meditation, which was amazing. Um, I also, is
Dan Ryan: that like, uh, sensory deprivation
Sarah Klymson: kind of thing?
No, I'll tell you about that in a second. But we did, I did a, so there's an outdoor floating meditation, which has, it's basically these rigs that have soaks that are hanging from, from the rigs, and you get in the soak almost like a cocoon. And then, um, there's [00:56:00] a, a, a specialist that sort of guides you through a meditation process, and you're basically looking at the mountains and then wrapped in the silk cocoon, and you meditate for, I think it's like a 50 minute class.
And it's amazing. And the, and you're rocking back and forth and the silk and the breeze is going past. And, uh, it's very, very amazing sort of, again, transformational experience, um, for a lot of people. So,
Dan Ryan: yeah, I can imagine just losing, losing sense of self in place. Being a part of the universe or the on the earth is flinging through the universe.
Sarah Klymson: Yeah. You're like swinging, being gently rocked while the sun is beaming down on you and the breeze is moving past. So,
Dan Ryan: wow. That's and, and on the sensory deprivation part, excuse me, have you, do you guys have that at Mial where you're in like one of those pods and have you done that?
Sarah Klymson: We have a treatment in the spa called VA sudara that is about, um, [00:57:00] deprivation.
So it's, it's actually a, a time massage that is done in a pool. Um, and you have a blindfold on and you have floats underneath your arms, um, that keep you bull. Um, and, uh, there's music that is sort of this chanting music that's in the water under, under the water. So when you lay back on your back and you're floating in the water, you have no sense of visual sight cuz of the blindfold.
And then you hear the music of the chanting when your head goes back in the water and then the therapist guides you through, um, a na uh, sorry, through a time massage in the water. It's again, uh, not to continue to use the word, but it's transformational. Like it's a very, very, uh, it allows you the opportunity to get into yourself, right?
Because you're, you don't have the distraction of, of sight. You're in the water, which is already a tranquil [00:58:00] sort of space. Um, and that deprivation is, puts you into a different state. So it's very powerful.
Dan Ryan: I think my sister was telling me that she did that once. Yeah. And totally like had an out of body experience while doing it.
Sarah Klymson: That's what a lot of people say. They really experienced something beyond what they ever would've expected they have. And, and it's like I said, very powerful. And you've done it. That was, I've done it. Yeah. I did it in Tucson. And actually it's a service that you can get at any of our Mariville properties.
Um, you can have that experience, but I think in Tucson it's really special because it's in an outdoor pool. Um, so again, you have like sort of the sense of nature around you, um, the breeze that you can feel as in the sun, um, sort of beaming on you. It's a very amazing experience. And what's it
Dan Ryan: like after having that transformative experience?
Like just. Coming back and [00:59:00] like interacting with other humans?
Sarah Klymson: Well, it's kind of, it does like af I remember after I did ura, I, I like got out of the pool and I remember I was like, I'm just gonna like sit for a minute. Like I need a minute after this. And that is so, so much what Mariville is about is, you know, I talked all about the experiential planners and having like an agenda, but then there are times at Merrillville where you should just like sit and be with yourself and think about your experience.
And, and that's one of the things we try to design across the property too, is like, there's little gardens and places where people can just, you know, have a moment after their treatments. But I mean, it, you know, when you go through something like that, um, you have a transformative experience, whether it's in programming or you know, in a spa experience.
You do need just a minute to sort of sit and be with yourself to sort of, that's I think one of the most powerful things at Merriville too, is like after you have those experiences, is reflection, right? So you don't really. Learn, I think you learn the most by reflecting on your experience. [01:00:00] Right? And so that's just as, as important as having the experiences reflecting on it.
So spending time, and that's one of the reasons that we actually talk a lot about why the experience and food and beverage at Merriville is so important is because a lot of those conversations you have over meals with other people you've done the activity with is reflecting on how, what your experience was.
And I think you learned so much from that reflection.
Dan Ryan: And, excuse me, I think there were, there's the equine experience, there's this floating meditation in the silks and then the, how do you say it? The VAs sudara Va sudara in the pool. Yep. Are those the three most? Transformational or the most intense or the most impactful experiences that you've had there?
Um, or are, are there other ones that are like super intense like that? And then if you were, if it is those three, which one is was the most impactful for you personally? [01:01:00]
Sarah Klymson: Um, I think one other one that's really impactful is we have, um, challenge courses, which include everything from, um, you know, climbing apparatuses, uh, team building exercises about trust, um, you know, being suspended.
50 feet in the air. Um, so I think Challenge course is another one that again evokes a sense of, uh, fear or uncertainty and how do you respond when your body's in those sort of, uh, interactions? How do you sort of train yourself to think through those type of things? So I think challenge course is another one that is, is really impactful for a lot of people.
Um, for me, I would say that VA Sudara was probably the most impactful. Um, equine is amazing and something that everyone should try to do that goes to a miracle. But, um, VA Sudara was just in a place where it really got to me and really had a big impact on me personally. So I would say definitely when you plan your [01:02:00] agenda, Dan, and I'll help you with it.
The Boar's gotta be on it, .
Dan Ryan: Okay. I'll be very intentional about it. It sounds super intense. And have you done it more than
Sarah Klymson: once? I've only done it once, so I would, it would be interesting to see, you know, cuz that's the other thing about Mariville is that every time you go back. Depending, your intention is probably different, right?
And so you will have a different experience. Like it will be, you know, something maybe that you're familiar with, but you might be at a different place. And so you might, that's the, that's the beauty about Mariville is that, you know, every time people come back, hopefully they get something different out of the experience.
Dan Ryan: Wow. Um, this has been awesome. Sarah. How do people connect?
Sarah Klymson: Um, I'm on Instagram, I'm on LinkedIn, so my, um, Instagram, uh, is at Sarah Clemson. Um, very simple. And then you can find me on LinkedIn too.
Dan Ryan: Great. And then we'll put that all on the show notes as well. Uh, I just wanna say this has [01:03:00] been awesome and now I'm excited to try all this stuff.
So thank you for, for your time
Sarah Klymson: and being here. Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me, Dan. It's always a pleasure. And
Dan Ryan: I, I wanna thank, uh, all of our listeners as well. If this has changed your idea on giving and receiving hospitality, or serving versus connecting, uh, please pass this podcast along. I, I, I love this conversation.
Thank you so much. Yeah, thank
Sarah Klymson: you.