Defining Hospitality

[00:00:00]
Dan Ryan: Hey, everybody, today's guest has been inspired and informed by more than 30 years of experience. He specializes in hospitality and residential interiors, as well as high-end furnishings from concept to creation.
He is the owner and founder at Belco ladies and gentlemen, an amazing and wonderful friend, Christian Schneider. Welcome Christian.
Christian Schnyder: Thanks for having it. That's quite the intro like, wow.
Dan Ryan: Well, what people don't understand is that the real introduction was just before all of this, it's going to wind up on the cutting room floor, where we were [00:01:00] just laughing and having such a good time.
And if you're watching this, you can see I'm actually blushing.
Thank you for making me smile and blush and getting all the blood.
Christian Schnyder: Yeah, I, you know, I think I'm excited to actually be able to talk to you as who I admire as professional, but all sorts of friends and having a good time and really great conversation is something I really cherish whenever we'd have a chance to do so.
Well,
Dan Ryan: thank you, Christian. And I think just to go back into history and kind of like connect the dots of how we wound up here right now at this moment, when I, one of my first jobs in the industry was I was an intern at Hirsch Bedner. You did not work there, but Kirk Nicks did work there and I was an intern for him.
And then years later I'd lived in San Francisco, I think back in LA then, and you were working for Kirk, who was just so amazing and over the top and creative and, and just [00:02:00] wonderful. And now you've been on your own entrepreneurial journey, which has just been really exciting. For me to watch you because I just, I don't know.
I just have this affinity towards other entrepreneurs and. I dunno. I just feel like in that shared entrepreneurial experience between you and me, I just think that we've had so many conversations that are just not at the surface. Like we really go deep, we're vulnerable, we're honest. And we just share a lot of our experiences with each other and we've been all over the world together.
So it's just good to be here
Christian Schnyder: with you. And yeah. You know, it's interesting when you're saying that I actually never thought I'm going to start my own business. Right. So, you know, I grew up with family businesses and I saw a whole mess that's involved in. Father and son and brothers and uncles. And I swore it, I will never have my own business.
Right. And then, um, you know, being at K and a, and having sort of seen intuitive for the another aspect, you know, to some lifestyle hospitality. And I was like, [00:03:00] Ooh, wow. That's really something that interests me. And, um, as it evolved to sort of like the natural step was like, I couldn't start my own business.
You know what I mean? There's a lot of gray hair, so I started quite late. Um, what do you call it? Entrepreneurship?
Dan Ryan: Yeah, it's uh, it's funny because as you were bringing up the family business side, this is a surprising memory that just popped in my head. My dad had a business and I remember at one point I started my company, my first company, I think when I was 26 or something like that.
And I remember before doing it, I was like, Hey, Don, I'm going to do this. Is there any way that before I go is, do you want me to be involved? In your business and like, do it think his response was fuck no. And I was like, whoa. So I was kinda like offended. I was like, why not? He and his reasoning was, he's just seen too many families, um, break up and build resentment and, and, uh, he just [00:04:00] didn't want to have that, have that happen at all.
And, but I will say for the families that have done it the right way, I would say most wind up in the camp of not working out well and a few that really plan on it and, and can know that resentments and all these negative feelings will come up. Right. But they plan for them and they create these kinds of, uh, pressure valves or forced rhythms where they're, they're kind of confronting issues and clearing issues as they come up.
Um, they've been super successful and it actually, if done well, Draw a family closer together. I
Christian Schnyder: totally agree. I mean, I'm speaking just of like what I experienced. I see plenty of like, in our industry, there's a lot of family businesses really, you know, on owner's side or, you know, factory side and they think they're, um, I admire them and they're making it work and they have great relationships.
It seems so.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, for sure. [00:05:00] Let's hope that it was really that he didn't want to create any future resentment and he just didn't think I was a
Christian Schnyder: bag. Well, I had no interest. I had no interest of going into like electrical engineering business. That was just like, not even a question. So by now, is that what your parents did?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So my parents own days, electrical contracting and electrical engineering business. Yeah. I can't even screen a light bulb. I mean, it was like, I just have no interest.
Dan Ryan: But, you know what you can design in place, light bulbs everywhere, and you can get the lighting levels just right.
To make me look amazing.
Christian Schnyder: Yes. That I can do.
Dan Ryan: Um, so it's interesting. You grew up in Switzerland and when I think of Switzerland, I think of that kind of concierge key. Right. And all the famous hospitality schools, um, and learning and just all the leaders that have come out of Switzerland and kind of [00:06:00] populated our industry.
Um, how do you think that happened? Like where, where does that drive towards hospitality and speaking for all Swiss people right now you have, uh, how, how do I, why do I associate Switzerland and hospitality?
Christian Schnyder: Um, I think what, uh, We, uh, Swiss people had to, like, we have no access to an ocean. We have zero, like, like there's no oil, there's no gold.
There's no nothing. Right. Um, so I think our culture is definitely towards service. Um, we are a sort of geared towards being of service and providing good service finance or banking, service, hospitality service. Um, so I think that's sort of, I have a feeling what that's coming from, um, really sort of, um, our strength is who we are as people, uh, being of service.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And as you're saying that and being of service, it's also, um, you know, historically [00:07:00] Switzerland is neutral, right. So it has to also make sure that everyone. Ha heard and, and happy and keeping all, all sides of their borders, like at ease, right. Because they're not a part of the EU
Christian Schnyder: either. No, they're not.
They just, I mean, universe, like that's this hysteria, I forget, like in the eighties I forget, or even nineties became part of the UN, like we were not part of the UN, there was like two countries in the world and one of them was Switzerland. It was hilarious. Yeah. But you don't have to tell you. It's so interesting that you're saying that it's really a cultural thing.
It's, it's sort of innate, like, I own this sense of like diplomacy, if there's a conflict, because you know, what we do is like there's conflict, right? I mean, not on the world stage, you know, sort of war breaking out, but there's like, you know, clients or things aren't happening. And I'm constantly trying to find a way to sort of like smooth over, like, what is the solution?
What can we find? I hardly ever see. Lose my temper. It's really more about, [00:08:00] okay, we're having an issue. How can we solve the issue? And you start conversations with all these different people. And I think it's just comes very natural to me. And I think it has something to do with how you grow up. Right. So we just don't as a culture, you know?
Dan Ryan: Yeah. As you're saying, that's really resonating with me because when you say conflict, I think so much of what we do, which is designing and furnishing hotels. Right. We're taking these ideas and we're making them come to fruition after you place all your lights everywhere. Right. In the simplest sense. Um, but so much of it I find is, um, focusing and listening to what is unsaid to avoid conflict and to get ahead of conflict.
And also because when you're, when you you're, so you, and, and all of your colleagues who can take an idea and make it a physical place, I'm always so impressed. And it's just such an incredible superpower. You're taking this kind of nebulous idea of what you're trying to accomplish [00:09:00] a thesis, if you will, and turning it into a space that you can walk, laugh, live, cry, love, like all these things within it.
And in doing that, you have to be very open to ever not only solidifying division, but getting everyone else to come on board. And then also just making sure that all of your visions are aligned. And a lot of that is just really hearing and conflict avoidance, right?
Christian Schnyder: It is. And I think what's also important is that you never.
Here's the thing we always strive for a hundred percent, right? I mean, there's a couple of exceptions in the industry that probably gets 99%. But I think the majority of us gets sort of like, you know, 80 to 75%. And I think what's important. What you said is like your vision, you just can't lose track of.
What's really important to fight for what do you need to keep and be able to say like, okay, I can live without that. Right. So I think that's, what's I think is super important not [00:10:00] to you, you have this end goal and where can you compromise to keep that end goal? And whereas you need to like put your foot down and say, if you're doing this, the whole concept might fall apart.
I think that sort
Dan Ryan: of, yeah. And also, as you're saying that I'm thinking of having worked with you on countless projects, I've seen you with your vision, I've seen challenges get thrown at your vision, but then it's not so much about. Okay. You stay a hundred percent true to your vision, but it's also this idea that I've seen you do where it's, how do you get everyone else on your vision, vision, bus, if you will.
Right. And it's like, okay, well the vision might've been the super focused point there, but pay, how do we get our tent a little bit
Christian Schnyder: bigger? Yeah. Yes. It's exactly that, because I think, I mean, I'm really bad that way. Like I love the process and I love walking into the final product, but for me, it's like, it's such a team effort and it's sort of like to premiere happen, the curtain [00:11:00] open and I'm sort of like not attached and I just move on to the next thing.
And it's not that I lost interest. It's sort of like getting you engaged, get a client, engaged, having conversations with the contractor or the architect or whatever, to get us to that point. The door opens to guests, come in and they take over and my job is done. Then I just walked away. Right. And I'm still looking back and I'm proud of it, but it's not.
You know, I have, I have colleagues who go back to their property and they get upset because the chair isn't where it's supposed to be. Right. Because like, oh, someone moved in and for me, it's like, my job is done. And if they feel as they inhabit, inhabit this place that it's, journey's move over there.
It's fine. Because I gave them a strong environment that things can move around. Right. And then I lost control the, want me to give something over? You, let it go. Right. Then you move on to the next day. And that's, what's exciting. It's the process. It's the people involved. That's what I'm about. Yes, absolutely.[00:12:00]
Dan Ryan: And if you could share with us a project, like walk us through a project that you've done, where, you know, you had a super tight focus and vision, but then, you know, you expand because of all the different stakeholders from the community to the client of the contract, all the people were there, like having their own, where it got a little wider than you wanted, but you were super.
Not just you, but you and all of the stakeholders were like overjoyed with the success. Like what, walk us through one of those.
Christian Schnyder: Wow. Um, well, I, I guess I would have to go to, um, I would have to go to the gray, right? I mean, that's just because in Chicago. Yeah. And in Chicago, I mean, that was pretty much the first project I worked on.
And I think that in terms of gross and how it is panned out, I think it's a really great example. I mean, I was also at a time where, um, Kinston sort of transformed driving to the two parts. Uh, and I think that's a, it's a very interesting, [00:13:00] um, project. So, you know, we started. And, um, everybody kind of knew what the chemicals supposed to be was like, you know, it's whimsical and all that stuff.
Um, but then as we evolved, we decided no, just really wants to be like something else since we got into more like a classic design and then we have to deal with, um, you know, his story got aspects. And so, you know, as we presented to the design, you have an expectations to executives, what they think they know what they're looking at.
Right. I came to is this, and then, you know, sort of with, um, you know, with guidance, we basically presented something that was outside of what they knew. So they're like, oh, we liked it. Can we sell this because it's not really the typical, um, came to that. So we network, right. Um, and then you sort of like start building this, right.
And then you, of course you have a great division and then the budget comes in and you know, you need to adjust the vision and, you know, you know all about that, right. [00:14:00] What can we change the hardware here? Or, oh three, whatever, the normal process of getting something that's over budgeting to budget, and then you start construction.
Right. And then all of a sudden, because he was a conversion of an office building, then all of a sudden like, oh, we can't move to this pipe. And then you have to sort of look into like, well, actually better, the better, um, example is, uh, the, um, elevator landings. I mean, if you go there, I'm, they're massive.
They're
Dan Ryan: actually, that's what I wanted to, I know you, you said it was a, an office building conversion to a hotel, but I just want to say it wasn't just a regular office building. It was a beautiful, and I still, as a building and. Office building and I do in particular, remember those elevators. So walk, yeah.
Walk us through those elevator lobbies. And then, because I also think that as you tell this story, I think that all of the growth in aesthetic [00:15:00] and design and vision in what that gray was to what it became, I think it also gave Kimpton a launchpad into growth and in where they're going and how they've grown globally, I think, cause it, it really helped them break away from what might have been seen as a traditional Kimpton.
And it was kind of like this confluence of all these energies to make one plus one equal five.
Christian Schnyder: Yes, I've done it. I know. I agree with five. I said, yeah, I agree. I love your math. Totally. For me.
Dan Ryan: I really like this kind of additive confluence of, of so many different parts that, um, it was just the right place at the right
Christian Schnyder: time.
Oh, I was so lucky there, there's no question about that. I say, I think that transitioning, um, of where they positioned, um, you know, Kimpton to be us being there, like being part of that, and then [00:16:00] also, um, you know, help exploring what that could be. I think there's, I mean, that's the reason why I bring it back isn't that was definitely a milestone for us.
So, you know, you want to maximize, um, room sizes and you want to maximize all that stuff. So we basically got in there and said, we're gonna make these elevator lobbies as small as possible. Right. Um, the, um, heritage, whatever the thing is called came and said, you have to keep these elevator lobbies, um, Uh, they are, I mean, they're massive.
And they're like, you know, bowling alleys, really. Um, so as a designer, you have a design done, And it's approved and you go forward and then halfway through, they're basically saying, well, no, guess what? The design, is not going to work. You need to go and keep what's there. And I think that's where I, what I love about this is like, okay, now here is sort of that hurdle.
You have to jump over, How can you make something look effortless? Which is not what you want it. I didn't want these elevator lobbies. [00:17:00] Right? I have to keep them, how can we now make the design? We had work with what they tell us we have to do so that when people step out of these elevators, it looks like the most natural thing that needs to happen.
And I think that is. What else, what I love about the process and when you're talking about the a hundred percent, or we talk about, um, you know, sort of how things evolve, because you know, all of a sudden you also have to go back to ownership and then say, look, we need to keep this. And as things, that's how we can manage this.
And then you go from, you know, light to dark or we, you know, whatever you might, I don't remember what I said, like, you know, seven years ago, um, we were waving your hands a lot. I know I've been doing that a lot. I speak with my hands. Um, so I think that's sort of one example of like where you strive for a hundred, right?
And then you go out to like, oh my God, I can only do like 60 and then you make it work. And it's sort of like this becomes, um, [00:18:00] I mean, you think it needs to be the way, so you give back to, you know, a hundred and I think that's a, you need to be open. You need to be like focused, you have to have a vision.
And then when that curve ball cons is sort of like, oh, okay, how can I make this work?
Dan Ryan: Right. Uh, I also want to just say how appreciative I am of hearing a Swiss person use a baseball metaphor there. That was great.
Christian Schnyder: I've been in the states way too long. I do. I know what it means. Not really. I mean, I know what it means when people use it, but like, don't ask me what it means in baseball.
Dan Ryan: So using the gray as that example of like, okay, you had this narrow tent or small tent, the tent got much bigger. And then to everyone's surprise, you wound up back at a hundred percent. I would even say with that project, um, more than a hundred percent because of all of the. Just kind of, of where it was in the timeline [00:19:00] of just what Kimpton was, was going through with, uh, you know, spinning off their assets, becoming their own, uh, management company, being acquired by IHG and really getting put on a platform for growth.
And actually, as I'm saying that there's so many companies that get acquired by other companies and then you, the culture and the flavor gets kind of smashed out of it. And I remember sitting at one of these events sitting next to someone from IHG, and I can't remember his name right now, but he, he was in charge of creating brand standards for IHG.
And I remember saying to him, I was like, oh, so when are you going to start working on Kimpton? And this was the coolest thing I think I've ever heard. He goes no way we would fuck that up. So hard for something like that, because they saw what. Thing Kimpton was coming out of San Francisco and it has such a, like a deep connection within my heart Kimpton, [00:20:00] because I think that was when I started my company back when I was 26.
I think that was the, one of the first orders I ever got to furnish was, um, it was, it was Kimpton and it was from Jennifer Ramsey and I was just so grateful that she gave me a shot. So for me, Kimpton is just on this pedestal in my life and career path and journey. So taking the right for you to, to take and, uh, and that's, uh, that's awesome because on our entrepreneurial journeys both started with Kimpton.
Yeah. Wow. Huh. Okay. Let's pause on that one. That's really cool. Um, okay. So then to bring that kind of experience of small tent, big tent, it where we are like. How does that help you define what hospitality is? Because ultimately you're, you're delivering it there through your design, but how do you, how do you define hospitality post that experience?
Christian Schnyder: You know, I mean, you know, [00:21:00] you warned me to a question like that it would be coming. Right. Um, and I had to think about that because I think we're all sort of like, just, you know, you go to restaurant and you have a drink and all that stuff. But I think, uh, looking back and looking at my career and all that stuff, it really goes to my experience of, um, childhood and how I experienced, how my parents sort of treated people.
Right. So we had a, what I call today, an open house policy. So we had, um, you know, you would drive to nine o'clock in the evening with dry fire house and there's lights and people would just ring the doorbell. My parents would open the door and then it just sort of left them in, you know, cup of coffee or, or a glass of wine.
And then we started like talking about. The world and politics and laughing, or maybe it was something about, um, you know, I don't know, problems in families or whatever. Um, so it, it was really sort of that openness and you let people in, you allowed them a sense [00:22:00] of like, you're always welcomed. Like I would go, you know, during the day you would go home.
And my mom was sitting at a coffee table with a friend having coffee, and they're talking about something. And I, for me that is sort of, that sense of hospitality is about you're inviting people over. You don't really need to invite them over. You're just an open door and you're always about coming. It doesn't matter.
Right? I mean, my dad, sometimes he would call it like the fringe goodbye. You know, people show up at nine at 11 o'clock, he's a pretense going to the powder room and it just disappears and goes to bed. Right. But people that never failed, like now it's time for me to leave because my mom was still engaging with them in the conversations.
Right. And we, as kids were part of that, Um, you know, engaging in conversations, learning about politics and being sort of part of that growing up sensibility and it's to this day, um, when we have dinner parties or people coming over, it's [00:23:00] a bit of a casual affair for me, because sort of like you are welcome whoever or however you are, and you are going to be, I want to give you the platform to be who you are, um, you know, sort of accommodating being of service again.
So you need like a firmer pillow. I can find that for you or, you know, I try to accommodate at the same time, it's never stiff or formal, if that makes any sense. Right. So if you look at what I actually do at my team does it's really the lifestyle and residential, and I think there's a certain, um, attitudes towards.
People coming to you. Right? So for me, like the biggest box of 200 next to a convention center is a different attitude. Then 95 rooms, you know, I mean, people know that is, might be, you know, a Curio or tapestry or whatever it [00:24:00] is, right. Or it can, but it has its own name and people have their own personality and you go there.
I mean, it feels like you go into someone's home. Um, you know, being invited to that,
Dan Ryan: if you were like, when you go back and think about those dinner parties, like, what's your earliest memory of that? And like, how do you, like what, what's a thing that you really remember from your mom and dad. Enact if they did, or I know that door was open, but like how would they make others feel comfortable when they came in?
Did they just greet them with a fondue pot? Or
Christian Schnyder: of course,
Dan Ryan: yeah. How would they do that? What would, what would the Schneiders do? Um, yeah. How would they make people feel at ease?
Christian Schnyder: So my parents hardly ever had dinner parties. That's not something they did. [00:25:00] So it would be that my dad would be out and about, and then call my mom and set up, bringing three people over and they, which is my mom would just make pasta and, um, you know, have dinner and the conversations.
Right. Um, it's what did they do? I think it's. It's a curiosity and an attitude towards other people. It's sort of like, um, I am curious what you can contribute to me. Right. It's sort of like, let's have a conversation. I look, that's what I love about having a conversation with you. Right. I don't know where this is going.
Right. But I'm curious where it's going and I'm open about what may happen and come out of it. Right. So you basically have an environment. You know, I grew up in a, my parents were quite stylish when there, they got a bit more conservative when they got older, but when they were younger to where it's sort of like, you know, stylish, but it was very eclectic.
[00:26:00] And the home had, there was no formality. So you walked in there, you sat in a comfortable chair and they started like having conversations over a glass of wine and whatever. So it was about. I am curious what you have to contribute to me. And that openness, I think is really what was an invitation for people to show up because they knew they were welcomed and my parents be interested in what they have to say, even if it is like, you know, my wife just cheated on me or whatever.
Right. It's sort of, um, there was no limit to what the conversation might be.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I, if I'm just using that example, there's like almost no limit and no judgment.
Christian Schnyder: Correct. Well, so this is interesting. So I can say my mom passed a long time. It goes, I can say that. So my mom is actually was actually, she knew how the world would be and needs to be, to be a perfect place.
And she did not held back [00:27:00] on the opinion about that. Right? So the conversations will get sometimes heated because as open as she was what'd you have to contribute, she would also jot you towards like her point of how the world should be. Right. Um, so I think that's an interesting dynamic, her openness of like what you have to say combined with like, well, actually what you saying, I'm totally disagreeing with you, right?
So I learned sort of that you can have different opinions about people. You still can be open and, you know, being engaged in something. And you may, after two hours decide that there was no. Conclusion that you both are wrong or you both that. Right? Right. But there was an engaged conversation. I think that's something that I appreciate to this day
Dan Ryan: and hearing that is so refreshing, especially now, because, and I know you, you know, you, you sat up there and said, well, it wasn't that there was no duck judgment.
And I see where she may disagree, [00:28:00] but I feel like we've lost that place where we can disagree with others and still be cool. You know, it's like, Hey, I don't agree with what you're saying. I don't hate you. And yeah. Tell me about like, how did you get there? I'm curious, like, I don't agree with you. I you'll probably never convince me to agree with you, but how did you get to that point?
And I feel like that's missing from our discourse
Christian Schnyder: now. I totally agree. I totally, I think what I think is very, very interesting and, um,
No, I don't have a certain age who I was talking about that yesterday in the office, I'm a certain age like technology. What I experienced for as low as possible to where we are now, where you're basically holding computer in your hands is staggering. Right? I mean, I remember when my dad walked in with the first like, oh, look, a fax came in, can you believe this is possible?
Right. Um, but what happened is you have to interact with people face to face, [00:29:00] right? So I feel because you have to engage with people, there's a certain courtesy and a certain kindness towards others. So even if you disagree, you still have to go and meet. So I grew up in a very small town. Right. So what
Dan Ryan: was, what was the nearest big city again?
Christian Schnyder: Wow.
Dan Ryan: Barron O'Bannon. Okay. So you're between Zurich and between Zurich and Geneva, right?
Christian Schnyder: Yeah. I don't have. As you notice. What's the, when I say big, I mean, Baron has like 135,000 people where the trains are on time. That trains are in time. Yes. I am still in time. Believe it or not. After 30 years in the states, I'm like, I'm on time.
But, um, so what I think happened is as we got into the computer on the hand and we start detaching ourselves from interacting with others, the language started changing. And I think we got more, [00:30:00] we're getting less, we're filtering less of what we're saying. We're thinking less about the impact of our words to others, right?
I mean, it's very hard than I do to find thing I'm guilty. Right? There's a conflict, there's a phone and there's an email. 95% of the time we email, because it's easier to say something unpleasant than picking up the phone and saying, this is not working. Right. But the time where a parent parents grew up or I grew up is like, you didn't have that option.
You had to maybe write the letter and put it in the mail, which took like, whatever three days before you got a response. So you were more in tune with the impact, your words have on other people. Right. And I think we're losing that of like words do matter. And it can say something in disagreement without being hurtful or mean about it.
Right? Yeah. [00:31:00]
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I want that back. I like, I don't know, I'm a phone person to me, but you know, it's also, we're also busy and so crammed from zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom that it's. I think we're all being so much more efficient with our time now, but we're also losing
Christian Schnyder: out on a lot. Yeah. And I think you can say something very open.
You just cannot come from a mean place. You know, I, I mean, you and I had in terms of business had to have Frank conversations where like, you know, this is not working or whatever, but I never come from, I mean, place you're doing the best you can. I'm doing the best you can. I can. And then let's figure out how we can solve the problem.
And it's not like you are, you know, a loser or I don't want to use any other sort of word to people against me. You're an asshole. Write out. Exactly. Thank you for saying that. Right. You're not getting anything done then you're not. Right.
Dan Ryan: Totally. And, and I think a lot of that also [00:32:00] comes from just good intentions, right?
Yes. Yeah. Totally agree. Um, so kind of, as you're seeing. Where we are and you're looking forward and, you know, kind of going with that theme of, you know, not missing out on connection. Right. Uh, I think that we're all star from, in certain, in a certain level or travel or experience, um, what's keeping you up at night these days.
Christian Schnyder: Um,
Dan Ryan: you're like, where do I begin now?
Christian Schnyder: It's outlook. I don't want to complain about it. Um, too much work and not enough people that really what keeps me, I have an amazing team. I mean, I'm really lucky that you do. Um, I'm drawn, like I'm drawn to great people and it seems to be working out really well. So we're, um, a great team and, um, you know, you're a small business seeing, as you saying yes to what's coming in because you're freaking out, it's not coming in.[00:33:00]
And all of a sudden you have a lot of work and we're definitely in a difficult time where it's hard to find. The people that fit.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. You know what I love how you say fit also, because to me over the years, I've found that okay, hiring for culture or for that fit is so hard. First of all, you have to know what your fit is.
You have to know what your culture is. Um, but it's almost like I believe hire for fit. And then the rest kind of follows suit. Cause if you're aligned on your outlook in life and the world, and kind of just what's expected from, from values and the values can be anywhere, um, everyone else can figure it out.
So how do you, how do you find fit for your team? Like what does fit mean to you?
Christian Schnyder: Um, one of my, uh, one of my team members, [00:34:00] um, said something very interesting. She said like, we're all a bit of weird and, um, That to me was like amazing because it's about, you should be able to be yourself, right? Because I feel that if yourself, who coming to work and you having a great time, you produce an even being productive.
I love people who are unafraid of just being themselves. Right. And I want to allow that platform for people to show up and be themselves and be a little bit weird. Um, if that's the case, I don't think they are. Um, for me, they're real people and I love that, that nobody comes in here and I feel they're putting on the show for eight hours and they go back home.
Right. So we'd have this sort of interesting camaderie of flights, strange personalities, great personality. I don't mean strange by character. More like a diverse group [00:35:00] of people come together and make this. Oh, wait,
Dan Ryan: hold on. Because as you're saying now, also, uh, in one of our previous conversations where I was talking about w where you're saying we're weird or something, or, and then it's kind of like, we're just being us.
We're just being open, honest ourselves. And the crazy thing is that is weird to many people. Most people are wearing a mask or this or that. And it's almost like people who were wearing that mask are just kind of going through life. Oftentimes they get repelled by people just being real or weird. And it's really weird that we have to say
Christian Schnyder: that we're weird.
I totally agree. I totally agree with you that yes. The discomfort of like being, um, yeah, just being sort of yourself. And I feel like I just, [00:36:00] I love going to work and I love hanging out with team. There is no question that I'm the boss, right. Because I mean, clearly they get the paycheck for me. Right. But at the same time is like, I'm not someone that people are afraid of.
I'm part of the team and we're working together on figuring things out. Right. And it just happens that I'm the leader. And I have to like make some final decisions. Right. But it's not like here is the boss and then there's the team. Right. So I'm really part of the team. So when I look for people, um, and I don't, I can't explain how I do this, but I have conversations with people and I just kind of watch how, um, how they interact with me.
Right. And then sort of like the center of like, that person is trying really hard to impress me or that person. Like, I don't, I don't have a problem. If a person is shy, you know, it's like, you know, here's, the Boston never met. You know, she person is mid twenties, [00:37:00] probably second interviewed ever had. Um, so that's not what I mean, but I think there is, there's a way when you feel that people are trying hard to impress or if they're sort of like being themselves and it's just a bit awkward, if that makes any sense.
Right. And I go for like, it's a bit awkward because I kind of feel there is some more, um, authenticity there. I know it's an overused word, but idealized like more authenticity there of like who they really are then trying to impress me in the first.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I, you know, and just, I totally get that. And you know, just thinking about our relationship over the years and our entrepreneurial journey, and we're like trying to figure shit out as we go.
It's interesting. Cause like you want to keep this game face on like, Hey, everything is. Oh my God, what, how am I going to do this? How am I going to find the right people with the right fit or whatever is whatever challenges coming at us. But I feel like there are those other [00:38:00] kinder, kindred entrepreneurial spirits where, you know what, Hey Christian, we can be vulnerable with each other and share this stuff with each other.
And it leads to some really amazing experiences and conversations that I think is all stemmed in like vulnerability. Right? And I feel, I also feel that a good thing coming out of this whole pandemic and being, you know, restrained from the people that you would normally see, or the experience that we would normally have is I think people are being, mother is so much suffering and in every, I don't want to discount that, but I do think people coming out of this realizing how short life is, and being more vulnerable and kind of skipping all the surface stuff and getting to a bit of a deep.
Place and that to me, this whole I'm, I'm hopeful for, um, cause I'm seeing it. And when you think about the future, like what's exciting you [00:39:00] most about the future?
Christian Schnyder: Um, wow. World peace. Um, no, well I guess, no, I, this is a big question. I think what you just said about, um, you know, people connecting and, you know, I've connected with some people having, um, on a level, uh, before a pandemic sort of like left the lift your life.
And then all of a sudden you sort of connect and you do zoom meetings and you know, we haven't done that, uh, before, uh, I am hoping what you're saying is true that people are a little bit more on afraid of sharing. A little bit more what's going on in your lives. Because I think that we all sometimes trying too hard to like show it a best faith.
Right. Then I just don't think when [00:40:00] I show you a deeper saw, that's maybe not so attractive. I feel that at the end of the day, that makes you more attractive because you actually opened up, um, part of who you are and you showed a trust in another person to share something that is maybe not as beautiful as you would like to know.
Right. Um, and again, I think for me, it's also how, again, how I grew up, because that's part of what do you do where you sort of, you know, engage people on a little bit of a deeper level as well. So I'm hoping that maybe the future is that we were less afraid. Just looking good, but also just share a bit more about all of our vulnerable sites in life.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And, you know, as you were saying, I think you, you strung the words together. Just not, you said it better than I'm going to repeat it, but showing a side of us that might not, not be as beautiful actually brings us closer together. [00:41:00] Right.
Christian Schnyder: I'm living in Los Angeles. Right. So it's all about, you know
Dan Ryan: yeah, yes.
A hundred percent now. And then, so then again, it, as you were saying that it kind of brought me back to that. No judgment disagreement agreement, you know, where your mom and what you were experiencing was okay. You have your worldview, they have theirs. You're both are probably right. But like, how do we bridge those gaps to become.
Closer together. Right. And it's, it's, I think it's, that's about trust and respect.
Christian Schnyder: Absolutely. I think at the end of the day, and I was just thinking about that, um, what, I'm also excited about what I can contribute, right? It's about people. It's about not me. It's about my contribution to others. And if you take yourself a little bit less [00:42:00] serious or out of the equation that the world is just about to and around you, but you're more about what can I contribute to others?
I think these conflicts can be very different. You know, I work for. Clients or with, you know, vendors and manufacturers were political views could not be more opposed. Right. Um, I deeply respect what they do. We thoroughly enjoy working together and we just respect that we will not talk about certain things and you don't have to talk about everything and I deeply enjoy working for these clients.
Then there's a manufacturers and I don't agree with them and that's okay. It's perfectly okay. Yeah. The world will be so boring. And if everybody would be the same, well, look, world peace would happen. If they were all like me, there's no question about that. Right. But it will be really boring.
Dan Ryan: [00:43:00] Totally. And then you, you said something there, it was what it's about people and what you can contribute to others.
And then bringing that back to the whole Swiss idea of service. And that's kind of where hospitality is because in a resource, in a resource starved country, really the only way that you can make the people passing through is by serving them and making them feel comfortable. Right. And then really honing that service.
Then you said also earlier that there's, you know, you're lacking oil and gold, but there's a lot of gold and it's all hidden in those.
Christian Schnyder: Well, that's like, look, it's okay. We can, that's like another podcast for like, talking about that. It's like better knock out. But yes, there is some dark. Yes. There is a lot of darkness there as well.
Yes. But you know, it's interesting that yes,
Dan Ryan: darkness. Yes. But also in that level of service too, it was, there was this level of trust [00:44:00] that also helped people say, oh, I trust the Swiss. Like it's, you know, even what is it? The Pope has the Swiss guard surrounding around him. Right. Or him it's always been a him.
Yeah.
Christian Schnyder: Maybe it'll change. Not probably not in our lifetimes, but progress, progress. Exactly. And, you know, actually, it's interesting. So I, people love working with me as clients because I think at the end of the day, I get a sense of like, it will be okay, we'll get there. Right. It's not, it's not out of control.
We'll get to there. There's no drama. I get it. It's not going quite well right now, but just trust me, we'll get there. So to send some security that I'd take care of them, I have their best interest in mind as I do. And I do. And I think that's the same as you just said, right. You sort of have that trust in there, but that's, I think it's a way of being.
Um, you know, and, [00:45:00] and really sort of standing into like, what am I for others and what can I do? And I think that's hopefully what will continue to success of the company, not just doing great design, but also delivering that sort of service, um, to our clients where they feel like taking care of
a guy said to me the other day, it was very interesting. He said to me, it's like, you're not designing for designers. You're designing for people. And I never thought about that, but he's absolutely right. Right. I am. I'm not like there are some amazing designers that I really admire and I just always excited what is next, what they do, but they definitely have their brand and their design in mind too.
While I, and my team really think more about how do people feel about it. I designed for people and not for other designers.
Dan Ryan: Actually, as you were saying that it made me think of [00:46:00] your design journey, because you went to a prestigious architecture school, you went to CyberArk, right. And you studied architecture.
I did. How did you make the decision to go from architecture to interior?
Christian Schnyder: Oh, that was an accident. So I'm way over educated in architecture. So I in Switzerland started as a draftsman and then I got the bachelor's degree and I was unhappy to ask the more to architecture just can not be it. And I got into the masters at sired, amazing experience, go back into the world.
And I'm like, I don't know. I just don't like architecture. I don't know. Just something about it. I don't know why. And then I almost lost my visa and I needed a job. And a friend says, does interior designer has a job opening? And I was like, yeah, And then all of a sudden, when I start doing that is like, that's what it was missing in my life.
And what it is is I am [00:47:00] not a intellectual designer. I am an emotional designer, architecture and school tends to be a lot of theory, tends to be a lot of like analytics and it's about, um, and I know it and I like, I love the idea of it and I totally understand it, but I cannot connect. And then we started designing restaurants that first job, and all of a sudden it was like, oh my God, it's.
Uh, stage set for what I call the drama of life. Like all of a sudden it's about how do you feel sitting in this restaurant? Right. And he has to function. There's no question about that, but it's like, now I'm touching the emotion of people and that's what excited.
Dan Ryan: And I think where you said, I designed for people, not other designers, I feel like, again, a sweeping generalization about architects, but the ones who were working on those big ginormous edifices that are just, it's like, it's a, this idea of look at this and Marvel, right?
It's this cold, [00:48:00] oftentimes cold, large structure. Yes. They do take the interiors into account, but I find that I thoroughly enjoy spaces that are designed by interior designers. I'm sorry, architects, but it's uh, because they're really taking the people into account. It's much more democratic in a way. You know what
Christian Schnyder: I mean?
Yes. I, um, we have a small project in. In Palm Springs, I'm super excited about. And, um, the client walked us to our comp set and we walked to the site and we were around the pool and it's absolutely stunning, uh, really, really beautiful. And he looked to me and he said is like, it's really beautiful, but something is just off here.
And I said, yes, it's designed for a photograph. It's not designed for people. People in here are a disturbance. They are not here to activate space. This has been designed to be an object to be photographed and not be [00:49:00] expanding. And I can't do that. So for me, it's all about when you look at my designs and you know, I can walk you through that.
I liked the element of it's not quite perfect. Right? So there's the eclectic mix that I like. Or sometimes we have to improvise a bit because I feel that's invitation for people to also just be and not be the disturbance of something that's beyond stunning. Right. I feel what we do is an environment for people and it's not an environment for a great photograph.
Right?
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And that kind of solved an answer for me. It's like, you hear this, Hey, what's after the Instagrammable moment. And I always looked at the Instagram moment is like this little vignette within something. But when you really zoom out and look at a space that you can totally tell when it's designed for a photograph and the people totally fuck it up.
And I don't like being in those
Christian Schnyder: places. Yes. My point look, I mean, to my [00:50:00] detriment is like, you know, I'm not. Um, being very dramatic this way. Right. But it's harder for my faces to get into publications because they just don't photograph as well as others, because I'm less concerned about how it photographs.
Right. For me, as I said, I hand over to key and then people started using that space and that makes me happy. I mean, the gray going back to this, right? So it's up for renovation and ownership asked, you know, what they would like to do. And they basically said you would like to just keep the same. Can you just renovate and keep exactly what you have?
And for me it was like, well, that's a huge compliment because it means like we designed something that you ask the operator, you own that like you does, it's your home. Right? And well, it did photograph well, but, um, at the end of the day, that's really what I care more about. Staff people owned this and are proud of [00:51:00] what they have.
And it's not about. You know, do I have a coffee table book in everybody's home? That should not be the goal when I realized, and that's a nice thing about starting a business a bit earlier or later in life, that that ambition is maybe not as, you know, I was 20, I thought I was like, yeah, I am the one who's going to be like, you know, change the world.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Not it there's a certain serenity that comes along with it.
Christian Schnyder: Yes. And I, I enjoy and appreciate with my team that we're turning out really beautiful work for people to enjoy.
Dan Ryan: That's what you just wrote, your new tagline, beautiful work for people to enjoy. Yeah. Um, okay. I want you to go back in time to a dinner party or not a dinner party, but a gathering that your, your dad just brought three people over, right?
Your mom is there listening, talking, sharing her worldview. [00:52:00] And you're there also. Now I want you, the Christian, you are now to go back and speak to the younger Christian. And what advice do you give
Christian Schnyder: yourself?
Wow. Um,
uh, I think, um, probably worry less about what people think of you and be a bit more adventurous because nothing is really going to happen. Right? I did accomplish everything I wanted so far in my life, but it took an awful long time to get there. You know, like I could have done this 20 years ago. Right.
But I didn't, if you took
Dan Ryan: yourself less seriously,
Christian Schnyder: Or not, uh, you know, sort of have that comfort level I have today if I had that 20 years ago. Right. I think that's what it is. Instead of getting, [00:53:00] I have a certain age, you know, sort of the process of a gay man and coming out in the nineties, eighties, a different production than it is in 2020.
Right? So you go through all this and it's informed me and it made me very successful in terms of how I interact with people, but it was also a lot of, um, protection so that, um, people like you have to be in charge of the conversation do not be out at, or being questioned. Right. So you'll learn the skill of communication.
You'll learn the skill of observing people. Like you get to know people and you, you sort of ask the right questions to sort of like deflect from you. So that really helped me to where I am today. It sounds really awful, but I'm grateful for that. Right. But if I go back, what you ask me to, I would probably tell myself, don't worry about it.
Don't um, be [00:54:00] who you are and don't wait 30 years to get there. Does that make sense?
Dan Ryan: 1000000%, because it also goes back to that idea of just where I find, I didn't know, the, I didn't know the Christian before coming out. Right. I've only known you as Christian, right? So I, I've only known you as the real you, I can't imagine you and dealing with all the masks and deflection in this.
You'd be like a Swiss spy then.
Christian Schnyder: Well, yeah, it's a little bit, I have to tell you, um, that's the reason why a level of Angeles and all that stuff. Like I learned a different language, right? So I learned English later in life. I came to LA. And I recreated my life. Right. I was able to use words in English that I would never use in German because I have no [00:55:00] social attachment to that.
Right. I mean, I use the F word all the time. It doesn't mean anything. It's just the word. Right? While other people's like, you can say that you can say shut up. You can say, like, I don't know. It doesn't mean anything to me. Right. That freedom that came with speaking and not worry about what it means socially helped me as of like open up and become more of who I really was.
Um, you know, almost like as a child, right before you go through this whole awful. When people ask me, would you go back to your twenties? Like, no, never. I don't want to be in my twenties again. Um, that was not a good time, but I think that going elsewhere, learning a different language and really discovering yourself of like who you are, because you have to almost reinvent yourself or you have to discover yourself to be able to express yourself in different language.
Right.
Dan Ryan: I don't think it's a matter of reinventing. I think it's, you know, your authentic or your [00:56:00] true spiritual self was just Bock boxed up for too long. Yes. Correct. That's gonna need it. You needed, um, some of those tools to open the, all those Amazon packages, even having an earlier
Christian Schnyder: and what I love about Los Angeles and it's probably the same in New York.
People just don't care. Yeah. Like, you know, whatever. Right. It's so large and, and you just be yourself and you start discovering yourself again. And it's just totally exciting.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And just being open and being true. Yeah. I love it. Um, Christian, this has been amazing. How do people get in touch with you if they want to apply for one of those jobs that you definitely need to hire?
Christian Schnyder: Um, well it's two ways, right? So there is hello at belay co-design dot com. Um, and then on social media, all the handles are@belaycodesign.com and Bella co is spelled B E L E C O. And explaining what it means. Again, that's [00:57:00] different podcasts.
Dan Ryan: Yes, we'll, we'll get you on for the meaning later. But I just want to obviously thank you.
I mean, our friendship over the years, it's just been so important and it was so good to see you in December and hug you. And, uh, that was, I can't believe it was fucking two years. So thank you for hugging me. Thank you for being here and giving me your time and thank you, Christian.
Christian Schnyder: No, thank you. This has been extraordinary.
I really, really appreciate it. Thank you.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I want to say thank you to all of our listeners. If this has changed your view on how to give or receive hospitality, um, please pass it along to your friends. We're growing and growing, and we just love getting the word out there because hospitality makes a difference for everyone.
Thank you. Goodbye.
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