Defining Hospitality

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Dan Ryan: Welcome everyone. Today's guest has won multiple awards from many of the major hospitality brands for design and modernization of their hotels. She is unique in her excellent client communications. She has extensive experience in the hospitality arena. She's been in the industry for nearly 30 years or 30 years.
And April fools is her company studio. Partnership's 20th anniversary. She's in NEWH Eid board member in the DC area. She is a principal at studio partnership, ladies and gentlemen, Karen Harrington. Welcome [00:01:00] Karen.
Karin Harrington: He Dan, I appreciate you having me on the show. Um, as I've told you before the contents, incredible, your guests are great and I'm proud to have been included.
Um, amongst the great,
Dan Ryan: well, thank you very much. Um, and again, just don't make me blush because the content really is only as good as the guests. Um, While you've been in, they've been in the industry for almost 30 years and had your own company for 20. Um, we've been in so many of the same places for so many times and have lots of shared fun experiences together.
Karin Harrington: Um, all purposeful for the show. I will tell you it's awesome because. You know, the, the hospitality industry at large, the, you know, all of the things we've all done together. Define that. Like, it's awesome. So I'm so excited for you.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Well, thank you. And I think what's really [00:02:00] interesting is like going back to the guests, um, I think.
You Erin Anderson was a one of our first guests and he, he dropped your name about five times on our podcast is like a real inspiration mentor, um, kind of part of his success. And I was like, oh my God. I was like, it was amazing at how many times he mentioned you. And I was like, oh my God, I have to get you on.
Because like, one of the things I love about our industry and I guess all industries, because we're not necessarily unique in that, but there's a. There's a real effort into, especially around like hospitality, making others feel comfortable, right. Of finding aspiring young, like rising stars and really helping to mentor them and coach them and see where they are.
So, yeah. Tell us about that. Like what draw, what drew you to it?
Karin Harrington: So Aaron's awesome. First of all, and he's incredibly talented and a business born out of the [00:03:00] last couple of years, that has been difficult for everyone. And, and, you know, for the defining hospitality in general, it, it speaks to all those things where.
You you meet somebody, whether it was 30 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago in Aaron's case, and you recognize skill, talent, honesty, um, loyalty, reliability, um, and all of those things and think good grief. We've all been through some of these blips. I mean, there've been three significant ones in my career and.
To find that somebody is starting something new and being brave and, and launching out during, uh, COVID is, is, um, is awesome. And so I think as a culture, we've always been, um, you know, easy to, to create a group [00:04:00] or, or build a team and. You want talented, smart, fun. We worked so much. We travel so much that you want to be surrounded by those people.
And he is one of those people that I've met that is couldn't be more deserving. Um, he's very entrepreneurial as well as qualified. You know, I could just go on for days. He's just such a great. And I could go on and on about a bunch of people in our industry and how they, you know,
Dan Ryan: actually that, yeah, that's a really interesting place to go because like I really believe, um, and I, I'm just so glad, like to use Aaron as like a, as a starting point, because I believe, you know, what I love about this industry so much, just from my perspective is, you know, I stand on the shoulders of all those people before me.
And there were so many people that saw something in me. Um, and I [00:05:00] don't, I don't know. And then I rose to the occasion and I built a network and, um, you know, and here we are, you know, overnight success after. 30 years or however long it's been. Right. I think
Karin Harrington: you could say everybody is an overnight success after every downturn.
You know, that, that if you're still alive and kicking that we're we're problem solvers in this business. And as a problem solver, you're gonna, you know, bootstrap, you're gonna get up, you know, get up and do it again. And, um, and it's just another problem to solve. You know, so design's a great place to solve problems every day in each problem's a little bit different.
Um, but it actually parallels your regular life. Well,
Dan Ryan: and, and I do want to get into design a bit, uh, well, as, as the conversation progressors, but like thinking about the shoulders of those before us, like who were some [00:06:00] early inspirations that saw the, um, the promise in you and. Helped you become the overnight success that you are after 30 years, right,
Karin Harrington: right.
Overnight. Um, what feels overnight, I'll tell you that. Um, so my, my main, um, the shoulders I've I've climbed from are my parents originally. Um, I think I told you on our, our. You know, pre pre-meeting that, that my parents were incredibly Unterman entrepreneurial. They were in business together for, you know, before I was born.
And. The strappers themselves. And so absolutely everything and the courage and risk assessment abilities, good or bad, whether I'm brilliant or an idiot. I still don't know. Um, but my parents really. Made me brave and [00:07:00] not fear. Um, fear the challenge. And then, um, post-college, uh, Rebecca Jones. Oh my gosh. I love her still to this day.
She is inspired and smart and, um, fun and funny and, um, sees things in, in color in her head. And we've always clicked because we see it like a film. Um, You know, if you could say, oh, I have a film running at all times on the inside of my eyelids and you construct things in 3d and, you know, somebody would explain to you kind of what they're looking for and you can just build it in real time in your mind.
Um, she is an incredible talent that way, and I feel like I have similar qualities. And so the two of us. Uh, got along famously. I learned much of what I know today from her. Um, so, and I tell her regularly and anyone who will listen, how grateful I am, because it huge, huge [00:08:00] part of my success. Yeah. And
Dan Ryan: a real pillar within our industry of hospitality design as well.
Like for sure. She's a
Karin Harrington: force. Yeah. Yes. Extremely successful. I mean, she's, she's. She's got all those things that we talked about before, you know, hospitality being a virtue. I mean, that's kind of the life I live is it's just part of my, my virtue and, um,
Dan Ryan: well, that should great. So hearing you talk about hospitality and it being a virtue and you know, your experience from Rebecca and others and your parents, and then.
You know how you've kind of paid it forward over and over using Aaron as an example, but I'm sure there's more, um, how do you define hospitals?
Karin Harrington: Oh, as, as a virtue, I, I grew up and it's always been personally and professionally, what do they say? It's, you know, it's, you've never had a day of work if you, if you love it enough, you know, and, um, you know, in a, in a design firm [00:09:00] setting, we've grown, we've been upwards of 25 people and small as eight people and, um, you know, adding architecture and doing a little.
Renovation and new build and all sorts of different things. Um, that no matter what segment we diversified after 2007, 2008, and started doing a lot of other segment work through the lens of hospitality and it was wildly successful. Um, but always coming back around to hospitality and the people that.
Gravitated to it. You know, they say not everybody's for everybody, which is very true. However, the majority of the people, um, that, that belonged to the hospitality industry, such a huge, tiny business, um, our lifetimes huge, tiny business, but you know, that, that so many of us [00:10:00] have so many commonalities. And, you know, the love of life, the love of learning, a Goodwill, welcoming, inclusive, comfortable kind, um, You know, all those things and, and all the way to all these really cool things we get to do as group boondoggles, nobody would put the boondoggle together, you know, to go snowmobiling in Vail and kayaking in the Pacific and all those things.
If the culture of the people doing the work didn't align with all that exciting stuff, you know, like,
Dan Ryan: you know, I, I, a hundred percent agree and I love how. The diversification that you did into other verticals after the financial crisis. Right. But looking at those through the lens of hospitality, because what I'm learning so much about having guests like you on is hospitality more than anything else.
We are a little [00:11:00] big industry or big little industry. However you play. I love that
Karin Harrington: they're very
Dan Ryan: nimble and very nimble, but all of those lessons of those virtuous lessons, as you said, Uh, making other people feel a certain way and cared for, and having these experiences, it's transferable to every single industry and every single human interaction at every single human connection, a hundred
Karin Harrington: percent because you know, vacation is aspirational.
When you pick a spot to vacation, it is, you know, not your neighbor's house or, you know, your country club it's somewhere aspirational. So if you can. You know, layer that over the things in your community, whether it's going to the office or, you know, going to your country club or going to your gym, and it has that layer of hospitality in it.
You just want to go to it that much more, you're much more comfortable in it.
Dan Ryan: So as you're [00:12:00] diversifying and bringing that lens of hospitality that you, you execute so well, and you're applying that to other places, like what's a really great example, a surprising example of how. Your experience of hospitality and delivering it via the built environment has had a surprisingly positive.
Karin Harrington: Oh, geez. I've got two great examples that are outside of our segment. One is a company called verdens they're our growing wealth management company. Um, and, and two of the principles, if you will, in that company are personal friends. Like in my zip code, let's say they're in social settings where I would be, but their head of marketing happens to be a neighbor and a really good friend.
And they are growing rapidly and had a couple of, um, facilities and a building. They were going to buy a, move their office and said, oh gosh, you know, we need help or growing, you know, can you help us out? And I said, [00:13:00] sure. It isn't your, you know, agent cause in that tenant world, um, it's done very differently.
And she said, yeah, it's just terrible. I nobody's really happy with it. And I said, okay. Yeah, gladly take a look at it. And I re spaced plan their entire office through the lens of you are going to work at home. And you are going to entertain your customer and your employee. Uh, they w the way you would welcome them into your home or into a hotel, great room, and that it is going to have to be somewhere where you would, um, you could co-work in, in the lobby, but you could also have a meeting or have a bite to eat, or maybe your lunch room is in a lunchroom anymore.
It's actually. Part of the lobby and you know, all those things and, and. Transitioned their office [00:14:00] culture into something remarkable. And so it was so successful that they have bought three other practices in three other cities and called us and said, can you repeat this same vibe in also different.
Square footages all different volume of people, but create that same feeling, um, in all these different spaces. And so we've done that. It's been wonderful and, um, they've had a marked change in support staff hiring and retention because of it.
Dan Ryan: I bet it doesn't, as you were saying, like something that jumped off the page at me, as you were talking about that is moving the lunch room to the lobby, right?
It's it reminds me of. And it's so simple and, but so missed, like my office used to be on Broadway between 20th and 29th right next to the ACE hotel. And that was really one of the first hotels. I think that just like [00:15:00] totally said, Hey, everybody come in here and let's, let's create this activity and buzz and share.
And then you mentioned about culture and then by bringing something that would normally be in a back room, Out. It's just, um, it's more than just transaction or something. Financial, right. It's Hey, we have a community and we care and you're open
Karin Harrington: and you're welcome to participate in it.
Dan Ryan: Um, anybody,
Karin Harrington: anybody, my customer, my employee, you know, it's also
Dan Ryan: interesting because if I think about, um, Banks or branches or kind of, you know, wealth management offices.
You, you know, you walk in there and I feel like there's two to two roads typically that happened. There's a, this really stuffy Oak paneled for bad contract kind of furniture thing. It's all heavy Oak, like, right. And
Karin Harrington: that's just not [00:16:00] meaningful anymore. Yeah. And it's not meaningful anymore, et
Dan Ryan: cetera. And then on the other side, you'd probably go to like, um, Uh, some of these, uh, retail branches, like I'm know that there's like this.
Right near grand central. Cause I'll go in there cause they have wifi and the capital one knockout for one, the TD, um, TD bank. But also then on the other side, so you have this Oak stifled thing. And then on the other side, it's like, I'm going into captain. Kirk's like Starship command. I'm like, it's cool.
And I can sit there and it's, if it's cold out, I can get out of the weather, but it's not, it's not activated. And it's like super. Zany, if you will.
Karin Harrington: Right? So it's like, I'm going to a club lounge in a, an airport. You know, that, that it's an intent. It is corporate design professionals trying to create a hospitality space.
And, you know, and it's just [00:17:00] hospitality is so different. It is really a lifestyle. I can't, you know, people ask like, you asked me to explain it and it goes all the way to the root of my being. it is the way I was brought up as well as it is part of my personality type. it, is both of those things.
And if that is not, if you're not. A person who is empathetic and can put their feet in someone else's shoes and not just for a second, but walk in it and live in it. Whether it's an employee or a janitor or a, or a host or hostess or a guest, um, a manager, any of those people have specific interactions and conveniences that they have to have.
And you have to. Be able to imagine yourself, literally walking in their shoes and identify the [00:18:00] interactions they have. And if you don't have empathy and you don't have an understanding of all of that and what comfort feels like and inclusive, areas, or even privacy or intimacy and all those things, if you, if you really.
can't feel that, um, and then be able to relay it to space, um, the space is never going to be fully successful. And hospitality really is great at that.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. I, as you're talking about walking in someone else's shoes, It's really, it's almost like you have to become a method actor and become, and have empathy and really get in there.
And I'm always amazed by, you know, designers or architects that are like, or branding people that somehow can take these seemingly nebulous [00:19:00] ideas because it's never a black and white thing. It's always like, okay, how do we find that one spot? Kind of is as close to everything as possible and then create a, a built environment about it.
So like for instance, with the, I think you said it was verdens, um, for dance or burdens, verdant burdens. So as you're trying to do that and hear what they're trying to do, like, what's your process for kind of like unpacking that? I find that
Karin Harrington: like, they didn't know what they wanted to do. They know they knew that they.
Didn't like what was being shown to them. And so they, they almost were open to suggestion rather than having an idea of what they wanted. It's fascinating, but they just didn't know. And they, they thought, you know, that I guess we had started a conversation and thought it was fascinating enough. And I guess they knew [00:20:00] some of the work we were doing, you know, we're doing the Chevy chase club and in the DC area.
And, you know, from, from one type of business to the other, like we're saying it is. The method actor, like that's a perfect description because you go to Chevy chase club and I'm talking, we had drapes installed and the whole place is very Butler and very intended down to every little detail, just as much as the highest end luxury hotel you've ever been to every hairdryer.
You know, wound and facing the same direction that team there is impeccable as well as being kind in all these school things. But they measured the, from the drape to the floor all the way around the room and wanted everything to be a half inch from the floor. Exactly. Every drapery panel in the entire [00:21:00] ballroom.
And they are creating an environment of perfection. Because that's, what's expected by the member there. Same as verdens once a high wealth, um, a high net worth client to come into their offices and feel, um, trust. Um, a view into the lives of the people. They are entrusting their, um, their nest egg, um, there, you know, and they, they service people from like me all the way up to, you know, the tens of millions and, um,
And so anyway, they, they are trying to create an environment that, that makes their customer feel, um, like they're entrusting to the right people and, um, that you were being welcomed into their life and that you can associate [00:22:00] their space and their office and where they spend all their time with the services they would provide to use specifically.
Dan Ryan: When you say you, like, they didn't know, are you, do you ask clarifying questions before you show them things? Or are you kind of just saying, Hey, this is what it needs to be like, how do you coach them through that to help them discover.
Karin Harrington: Um, it's called programming. It's the first phase in the design process.
And, um, it is part of your job responsibilities, if you will, or project responsibilities to engage in those questions. Um, I think when, when you get the opportunity to talk about a project or something unique and different, Before you put any pen to paper, you actually engage in that narrative. And so, you know, that's a normal process in, [00:23:00] in the first thing you do in design is programming.
And so, you know, we do, or we would have a series of questions if you can't tell I am a giant communicator. So I love talking. About people, um, and encouraging people and trying to make people feel comfortable. I was premed psych. Um, so I automatically by my, my first love of people and, um, trying to make people feel comfortable and happy and joyful.
And in all, perhaps all those things are part of the process. You know, why would you want to go into a space that doesn't make you feel
Dan Ryan: so, and as you're going through the programming and you're, you're taking this lens of hospitality and applying it to wealth management, right. I think at the beginning you said that there were two that were really exciting, that were different verticals.
So that burdens is one, uh, [00:24:00] walk us through.
Karin Harrington: Well, the other example, one of the other examples was Chevy chase, which is like the polar opposite, you know, kind of giving the example of, of you can have one that's supposed to be warm and welcoming and, you know, and, and Chevy is, is very formal and, and expected.
And if you can't get in their brand and in their traditions, you're not going to be able to give the. A member, the experience that they expect from that establishment. And then the third is country. The country club is, um, a 65,000 square foot, um, shooting range. Um, it, it exes a variety of things. Um, you can go there for just general.
Training for learning how to shoot and care for a gun, gun safety, all that. Um, they also teach self-defense so their SIM rooms and all sorts of really neat stuff. [00:25:00] Um, and then there's also retail and a museum. If you will, where, where we celebrate the lives of following. Um, officers and firefighters and things like that and tell the story of, of, um, security in, in the state of Maryland and which was kinda neat.
And then there's a VIP lounge and a VIP membership that if you, you can store your weapons there and you can learn and have, um, training from some of the United States, number one, um, shooters. And it also has, um, I can, I don't think I can go into too much detail, but they do a lot of training for the secret service and things like that.
And so there's some unique, um, access requirements, um, to how you get in and out of the building, whether you are a, you know, just a retail customer [00:26:00] or you're an actual club members. Or if you are secret service and you're training for performance, um, they have all of those things. And if you look at it online, you'd be like, holy cow, that looks like a hotel that looks like somebody's club room.
That looks like. Um, an FMB outlet. Oh, that looks like a cigar lounge. And so it definitely feels very much like hospitality and, um, and it's supposed to be comfortable. And if you come there that you would stay there, not for a half an hour of your session, you might come stay there for three hours and, and have a bite to eat.
Yeah, totally different. But 65,000 square feet of hospitality designed retail,
Dan Ryan: uh, one place that I I've always been amazed that, um, [00:27:00] hospitality really has. Taken hold in. And it just boggles. My mind is healthcare and hospitals.
Karin Harrington: So healthcare has come a long way, but hospitals and doctor's offices, not so much.
Um, it's interesting. The, the bureaucracy in it, um, is difficult to traverse. And so we've done, um, at university of Maryland medical center. Um, we did a. They brought in a, uh, oh gosh. A T a top doc, let's just say, uh, an orthopedic surgeon who was brought like, you know, hired to lead all of that. And they ended up building him an entire building and a really cool guy, and they wanted to offer him an office suite to grow.
That wasn't like what was being done by the tenant fit out team. [00:28:00] And so they had us hired on top of that local design firm that was already doing the tenant improvement work for them and project management. And we layered in hospitality over top of, um, you know, a 20,000 square foot, um, space for a new, a new department.
Dan Ryan: So w you know, when you talk about the bureaucracy of healthcare and hospitals in particular, and I do see that healthcare has come a long way. And I guess for me, it's more doctor's offices and hospitals, because really it should be it's about healing and restoration and re re recharging. And when you talk about the, um, when you come up against that bureaucracy, like for those listeners that just don't know, like, What's like the biggest frustration on that bureaucratic side, that where you want to do something, but you're just like you hit a wall.
Karin Harrington: So it's [00:29:00] how the real estate is owned, managed, and improved. And it, there are more people involved in, in that. In that decision-making. So the administrator of the hotel, I mean, of the, of the hospital, isn't the same person that is running the facility or owns the building necessarily. So the person that might own the dirt, the building, um, is their landlord.
So it's a tenant, a very large scale tenant improvement. Um, so it's. It's a lease essentially. And so whether it's a doctor's office that might be 6,000 square feet, all the way up to hundreds and hundreds of thousands of square feet, there's the economics are built. You know how in hotels, the economics are like, oh, it might be a renovation at $75,000 per key [00:30:00] amortized to the entire hotel.
Right? Well, in, in the TBI world, it's a square footage. Analysis and, and in the regular builders grade Tai, it's a really tight number and they almost pick like, um, like a Marriott select service program. There's this box of improvement parts that, that you can pick from. And if you change a paint color, you change carpet.
It's almost like the states that have. Um, you have to a three tier system to buy your, your cocktails. Um, it's the same thing, so that. Uh, carpet vendor and a dealer and an installer. And there are so many tears in it that are all dipping their hands in the pot. That for hospitality, I'd be like, oh, that carpet should be, you know, $27 a yard.
And they're like, no, it's 53 installed. And you're [00:31:00] like, um, Hmm, well, three different entities have dipped their hand in this. And we're like, you've got so much volume. Why would you do that? Um, and it's just such a big building with a different type of management and annual care maintenance program that.
It's just easier to have somebody that you call and say, Hey, your carpet is peeling in room number 1 0 5, you know, and, and they would have to come fix it as part of their maintenance program. It's just a harder business to manage in a way that you'd say, okay, well, you know, why don't you have your purchasing department buy all your, your finishes, like the hotel business and yeah.
And the economics just that. They don't replace product quite as often. They're soft goods. Renovations are, are like 20 years, rather [00:32:00] than ours being closer to eight to 12 years. I mean, it is just a different set of economics. So I don't think it, it really is anything except for how to make the most money out of the building that they're in.
And it's use, and I feel like it's, it would take a lot of effort to go back and unwind it. I don't know that there would be enough of a, of a savings to do it the way we do it.
Dan Ryan: I feel it's surprising. I mean, it's not surprising to hear it's the economics. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I was kind of thinking.
You're restricted to such a more, a much more limited palette that has to be like impervious to blood and urine and like
Karin Harrington: guts. There's so much materials. There's some of that, but there's so much product out there that. You [00:33:00] know, has moisture barriers and, and locking seams and all those things that, um, it's really more about price and less about, um, barrier to entry.
Because you don't know enough about it. There's a little bit about that, but it's not so much that you couldn't do it. It's a matter of, would you want to, you know, we had been asked to do a couple projects at mercy hospital in Baltimore. Um, we were way too out there creative and, um, you know, it wasn't a good fit, you know, we, we really wanted to not pick the, you know, from five multicolored.
Carpet patterns, you know, it just wasn't the right fit for a highly detailed creative team. You know what
Dan Ryan: I also find sometimes the best projects we all ever get are the ones that we don't get. Right.
Karin Harrington: First. Sure. For sure.
Dan Ryan: That's how I [00:34:00] rationalize it.
Karin Harrington: Right. However, I will tell you, you know, when the 2007 eights happen, um, and, and you know, you've got.
A lot of talent, you don't want to lose, you know, you are willing to, um, you know, do that, that work. That's a little bit more programmatic and meat and potato, just for the sense that everybody needs. Design design is not a luxury. It is not, you know, people will say, oh, I can't, I can't afford a design. Well, well, you should figure out a way to do so because it's not a luxury, it has a lot to do with the way you move around the country.
And so, um, and the way how you live. Yeah, for sure.
Dan Ryan: I mean, and actually that's a great launching point into, you know, design. I feel like design has always been so much further ahead in Europe. Right. And, and also, and now in Asia, Well, I, this is my theory and it's probably wrong. So, but it's just been [00:35:00] there, like all the fashion houses, everything it was there.
Really. So you're getting a lot of this art artisinal multi-generational like crate, like just beautiful things that are
Karin Harrington: happening, right. Because there is so much older there's yeah. There's no more land. There's no storage when you buy stuff. You buy one Armani suit and in the U S you have disposable clothes.
It's inexpensive. You have five closets. I it's such a, such a hugely different lifestyle proposition. You know, if I had one closet that was four feet wide and I had to go through all of my staff and only. What would fit in a forefoot closet? Wouldn't it be fascinating to see what everybody would call? I mean,
Dan Ryan: that was my life in New York city.
And now I live in a house in Connecticut and I have like, I'm just filling up my closet with stuff. I used to have three feet [00:36:00] and three drawers. That's where I kept everything in my life. It was much simpler,
Karin Harrington: really nice stuff, right. Stuff that lasts. It's not disposable. And you know, it's interesting.
Dan Ryan: I love it.
But as you think about, or so anyway, that there, and then in Asia, you know, so many of these great projects from multifamily to hospitality to just infrastructure, it's almost like there's no budget and it's, um, they're doing crazy awesome, like over the top kind of projects, right. And materials. And, um, and then you look at the U S with all we, like, we don't have as many constraints from space-wise.
Right. Um, But I do see that. And that's what I meant by like on the lagging side of, of design. Right. But what I've been seeing over the past 20 years is, and even in our industry, like you were saying, you can't live without it. And design is becoming so much more important and so much more [00:37:00] thoughtful, um, in the United States that, you know, I'm curious, like what's exciting you most about the.
Karin Harrington: Well, so when millennials were, were kind of poked fun, people were poking fun at millennials and millennials are difficult and all that stuff. I was like, I am a millennial, but I'm not a millennial. I'm much older than a millennial, but I, you know, I've, I'm excited about how smart. The kids are coming out of college.
I don't want to say kids cause that's kind of, that seems like condescending and I don't mean it that way, but the 20 somethings coming out of college, they're amazing. They're amazing. And um, and I can't wait to see what stuff they come up with because they're faster that they know how to use all of the equipment they're they're given in a way that.
Um, is so efficient and thoughtful and inventive, and they're excited about stuff [00:38:00] and, and, um, So that's probably the biggest thing I'm excited about as well as, you know, post COVID. And I don't know how many pills does boast come on, but it gets to that point
Dan Ryan: where it
Karin Harrington: was well. So I feel like people of a certain age have a certain responsibility, have taken a long look in the mirror and said, really what's important to me now.
Because on the other side of all that hustle and bustle though, the life, as you knew, it changed a bit, but we're still okay. We're still doing the same thing. We're still able to recover and move on with our lives. And with that being part of the story, which is excellent. Now, what do you want? Because now you can choose because you don't have to live the same way you did.
Four years ago, where everybody was sprinting and hustling and bustling, and now you choose, [00:39:00]
Dan Ryan: you
Karin Harrington: choose and you choose really wisely. I think the silver lining, you want to do it and who you want to do it wet?
Dan Ryan: I totally agree. I think the silver lining out of this, cause we had so much taken away from us, right?
Mostly around connection, um, and community. Um, I think the silver lining here is we're able to become so much more intentional about what we're all doing. And if you think about design. Really design is like Supreme intentionality, because you're really through empathy, thinking about this addressing issues and solving problems with a lot of thought and, and fire power behind you to be intentional about what that experience is.
Karin Harrington: You're creating. Sure. You want to hear something else? Cool. Like do you know Amy jacobowsky? Yeah. Okay. So she's awesome. Like nobody can. You know, say anything. Uh, she she's got it all going on. I [00:40:00] think she is, um, a supremely professional. I think she's such a freaking hilarious and hilarious and a cool cat, all those things.
And we were in, oh my God. You'll get to see her next week. Um, but anyway, she, she's pretty awesome. And. And we're competitors like friendly, of course. And I would consider her a friend after all these years and all this, you know, what happens after you get over yourselves and you make time to sit down and really talk well, what was really cool?
We were in Alice together. We're out to dinner and we got into the conversation of, you know, who's on your team. Who's hiring who needs a job and, um, and who would be great to hire if you could afford it. And we were sharing back and forth the names of some killer people like, oh, I'm not in a position to hire this type of person right now, but I'm at this gal.
Who's an amazing opportunistic, very great salesperson, great networker, [00:41:00] really smart, young, excited, all that stuff here. I'm going to give you her name because. I can't do it right now, but, but you can. Why don't you think about her? And she called, you know, a guy that she used to work with that is now new on my team and, and we love him and I would, you know, bawl my eyes out if, if he were to be stolen.
And, um, she called them and said, Hey, I'm just checking on you. I want to make sure you you're gainfully employed and you're happy. And he said, oh, I'm, I'm working with Karen Harrington and Christina Hart. And she said, oh yeah, you're in great hands. They're really wonderful. They've got some wonderful work.
That's great. I'm so happy. You're happy. Pre COVID not to say Amy would be any different. I'm just saying, would that have been the culture? Was that the culture before? And I don't know that it was, and I think that there's a lot of [00:42:00] thoughtfulness and a little bit of intentionality to our industry now.
That is, makes it even nicer. Like I already thought it was amazing and now it's even more amazing, you know, in ways that it wasn't before.
Dan Ryan: I totally agree. Um, and to me, I think that the silver lining of intentionality is I think it's true. It's transformational for, for all of us on so many different levels.
Um, okay. You mentioned that you learned so much from your parents, right? Then they were entrepreneurs. They treated you or they taught you about bravery and how to manage fear. Um, what do you, how old were you when you, when, when you really realized that learning from them? Cause sometimes as you're going through just
Karin Harrington: last year, but, um, I was definitely an adult, you know, I think it's [00:43:00] when, when you.
I don't know, maybe after I had kids and you slow down enough to look back a little bit and, um, or maybe it, it might've been, see, I made some kind of mistake, like who does that, but I made some kind of mistake and, um, went to them for, for assistance in resolution and realized, okay. All the things that I've achieved had a fairly high level of risk and that it was the home I grew up in that it was encouraged to take risks and that if you fail.
Was almost better at a young age than always succeeding because you learn so much from, um, the lesson that as you age, and it's more meaningful when you're taking risks to make good ones and, uh, [00:44:00] to go about it in a very educated way that, that they encouraged me so much to go do it, like go do it. Um, they were funny.
They, they decided. To build a vacation home on an island, a barrier island off of the Virginia panhandle, uh, with some friends. Oh my gosh. I mean, hilarious. Just what like a 14 year old girl wants is to get on a barge, be dropped off on an island without any people on it, to a house that had been halfway built with no railings on any of the decks, barely working toilets.
And it was makeshift where all the boys are shooting guns. Out of, uh, what do you call it? Beach chairs. I mean, just so hillbilly and horrible for a 14 year old, but it was so cool. And they, like, why would four grown men decide, Hey, you know, that's a great idea. Let's buy this little piece of sand and try [00:45:00] to build a house on it when not one of them had ever built a house before.
And I mean, ridiculous. So anyway, it was just that, that's what happened in, in my house growing up, um, you know, they jump in the car and say, Hey, let's go to key west. We'll wait. It's Thursday in the middle of the month. Right. And they'd just be like, let's just go. And next thing you know, we'd, you know, be in a suburban with two families in it, headed to the keys to go fishing, you know, it was just constant, constant, something crazy going on.
And so. Um, they, um, they were, they were fascinating. They still are like, they're really funny.
Dan Ryan: I can't, I can only imagine. Um, it sounds, it sounds amazingly ridiculous and super memorable. And you know, I think I, from my life experience, the [00:46:00] most memorable and enjoyable times are often the ones where it's.
If things don't go as planned. Right. That's like, because otherwise you're kind of just almost phoning it in. Right. And it's like, oh no, on that camping trip, when it's pouring rain and you can't do anything
Karin Harrington: well, as you're in your cushy hotel and your cushy bed paying, you know, $15 for a packet of sugar and, you know, and it's kind of like once you've been traveling a long time, you get accustomed.
Some, some of this stuff. But I, I take my parents on a trip with myself and my kids every other year. And, and we had started in gone like up and down Europe. And so one of the first trips was to go to England and France. And I said to my dad like, Hey. I've got all the stuff in London, but can you do some stuff up where the soccer match is?
Sure. And so we get in the car [00:47:00] and we'd drive up there and we go to the hotel and oh, oh, oh, do you know Charlie? And the chocolate factory? All the beds in the living room with all the aunts and uncles in it. Oh my God. So we walk into our hotel room and there are beds like everywhere. And the whole family, all of us are supposed to sleep in this room with like eight beds in it.
And literally, and it was, I think it was Easter. And so we have all these Gucci chocolates from Paris. And we're in this dumpster fire in, you know, Liverpool and literally, what do we all laugh about? The dumpster fire in Liverpool and how hilarious it was that all of us slept in one open bunk room. Um, in order to go to a soccer match, it was hysterical, [00:48:00] but it was disgusting, like no shower,
Dan Ryan: uh, memorable, memorable, memorable making memories.
So if you were to go out to that island, that would the, the house that's falling down, uh, As a little as a little girl, let's say you were to just stand in front of yourself there. What advice would you give your younger self there as all the guns are going off? Um, and you're, and you're just trying to make it happen.
Karin Harrington: Um, Gosh, it would be hard to be like, oh, wrap your arms around this and love it. Um, because on many levels I did, although I complained a bit because I wanted to be at the mall with my girlfriends. Um, however, I would say, gosh, you're a lucky girl. You know, all the things that you learned being taken away from all of the, you know, [00:49:00] Rush of a day to day in a contrived setting with, you know, the contrived boundaries and all of that.
My parents were like, you know, always planning something crazy. And so standing on that beach, I'd be like, you are one lucky girl. Awesome. Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Um, well we're kind of like rounding out here, so. I want to say thank you for your time. And this has just been so enjoyable and I can't wait to go look at these projects you mentioned because, um, especially at that verdens one, it just sounds really cool.
Um, how can people get in touch?
Karin Harrington: Well, um, we, we have a web website we're on Instagram as well as, you know, LinkedIn and all that good stuff, but they can reach me by email. Do you want me to share it or do you post it
Dan Ryan: and the [00:50:00] show notes? We'll, we'll get it in there. We'll get your email, uh, LinkedIn, your company, website, everything else.
And.
Karin Harrington: Sure. And also for, for anyone that watches the show there, I had met a couple of gals at, at, um, HD at, um, you know, that boat event that, that, uh, PJ. Puts on. And, um, I met a couple of girls who were, had just started their own firm and they, they were a little bewildered by some of the business stuff. And so if somebody is watching and has questions about the practice of design and, and feels like they could use some mentorship, there don't feel like you can't reach out because you know, women do uplift women and share, um, Share stories and best practices and things like that.
So don't be afraid to ask a fellow designer, whether they're, um, [00:51:00] a principal or a senior person, uh, for, for some of their experiences, because I know for myself, um, I am glad to help out with.
Dan Ryan: Love it. Um, and to me, like that's what makes us also special. And that's what helps us shorten up each other's journeys is our experience.
It's never like, oh, you need to do this, this, this, this, or, Hey, from my experience, I did this and I might want to consider that. And it just changes things and people are more open if you're just sharing experience rather than saying, oh, you got to do this, do this. This is the way, well, that's very generous of you, Karen.
And, you know, and I think. You're not alone in this industry. And I think the other lesson from that is of all the people in our industry. It's amazing to me that like, there are those people that ask, but they're very few and far between where they'll people will become vulnerable enough to ask, Hey, share this.
So I think we should. Yeah. And I love that you're, [00:52:00] you're offering us so generous insurance. But Karen, thank you very much. This was an amazing conversation. I appreciate
Karin Harrington: your time so much. Thank you so much. Oh, you're welcome. Next week. Yes.
Dan Ryan: And, uh, everyone else, if this has helped evolve your thinking on the hospitality and designing for hospitality, please share the podcast we're growing every week.
And, uh, thank you for your time, everyone. And thank you. And we'll check in next time.