Defining Hospitality

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Dan Ryan: Today's guest is an innovative thought leader. She envisions a brighter future for everyone.
She uses her platform to amplify the voices of first-generation students and people of color. She is the president and CEO of a organization. That I'm a huge fan of the opportunity network, ladies and gentlemen AiLun Ku welcome AiLun
AiLun Ku: thanks for having me today, Dan.
Dan Ryan: Well, okay. There's so many things I love doing about podcasts since I've started doing podcasts, but one of them is I get to talk to people who not only I admire and inspire [00:01:00] me, but also are making a really big difference in the world.
And. The organization that like one of my really good friends is co-founder of, and now you're, you're at the rains and you're running, um, has impacted so many kids and it's called the opportunity network. For those of you who don't know. And one of the things I'm most passionate about is getting the hospitality industry to receive some of the most amazing kids that you guys are mentoring from high school.
Through college and then placing them in internships because one of the things, and I don't think you guys coined this, but something that resonated with me with one of the first dinners or events that I ever went to, it was that, um, talent is uniformly distributed, but opportunity is not. So tell everyone what the opportunity network is all about and how you're making a difference in that.
AiLun Ku: Sure. So oppnet is a national nonprofit organization and we do two [00:02:00] things. One, we work with young people directly in an after-school out of school setting. And that's primarily here in New York city. We work with them, like you said, the summer after 10th grade, all the way through college graduation. And we work with them on dismantling barriers to opportunities.
And so that means, um, access to information about college access, to information about jobs. Um, and also what are the skill sets they need to thrive in those opportunities. On the other side of the house, we work with institutions. We work with public high schools. We work with, um, colleges and universities, and we work with employers.
So that. Setting the conditions to help young people of color, many of whom are the first in their families to go to college, um, all young people of color to thrive in their settings. Right. And so we do both of those things here in New York, very deeply. And then across the nation.
Dan Ryan: So one of the, one of the things that I was just amazed by, it was, um, the kids that you're bringing into the program.
Awesome. And as you said, or as I said, [00:03:00] many of them are first-generation and people of color, oftentimes most of them are it's the first time they've ever gone to college, anyone in their family. So to be able to like, sit with them and hear their stories and also just see how comfortable that they weren't.
Just being in these kind of like almost like speed dating type situations where just getting peppered with questions and their composure. It was just totally inspiring. And, uh, it's just so great to be a part of an organization like this, where we can create awareness and let people know that, Hey, there's a whole hospitality industry and we build these great environments or we run these hotels and they're just like, wow, tell me more about that.
And the kids are just so incredibly. They are.
AiLun Ku: And I think they sh what have we love about speed networking? The event that we run every year, three or four times a year across all of our grade levels. And we support our partners in putting [00:04:00] those events up for their communities. There's all this work that leads up to it.
Right. All the work. Um, the first thing that we do is helping our young people feel like one, they belong in every setting they enter. Right. And that's a huge thing to, for them to feel and to start building. Because once they have that confidence, they have the comfort level to engage with professionals and say, Hey, tell me more about you.
Tell me about your job. Tell me more about this hospitality industry so that I can learn for me what, where I might fit in, in terms of my, my career ambitions. Right. And we also do a lot of technical training. So we, all of our students go through marketing around. Marketing or assets in the way where they can talk about themselves, grounded in evidence and grounded and things are really proud to share about their communities, what they've achieved thus far as 15, 16 year olds, uh, and how to invite people in, in conversation.
So that [00:05:00] it's a give and take. Right? And so it's not just a one-way conversation, which I think oftentimes when you hear the word networking, it could feel as if in you're just trying to, you know, move around the room. Trying to collect up business cards.
Dan Ryan: No, it totally. So it wasn't that at all. It was really okay.
Yeah, you're doing all that stuff. You're moving around, but each interaction was so for me, thoughtful and engaging and inspiring, like these kids are freaking awesome. And I think the other thing, something that you just said a minute ago, which was teaching them how to do. Be comfortable in any room or any environment that they walk into?
Um, I think part of that, one of the things that struck me was one of the young men. I was, um, helping coach on writing his college essay. He was first generation from Bangladesh. His name is Muhammad and he would, we started off the first meeting. He's like, yeah, English is my second language. I'm not a good writer.
I don't really have [00:06:00] much. And I'm like, really? So tell me about that. Like, where are you from? And he started telling him, what did it smell? Like? Like, what was it like when the sun came up? What do you remember? How did, and then I started writing all this down and just asking him all these questions. And then I read back to him like this kind of crazy arc.
He just threw out at me and I was like, wait, so you have nothing to say. He's like, oh, he laughed. He's like, I guess I do. And then, uh, I think part of it was how did. Teach these kids to be vulnerable in a way that they can be comfortable in any room and be like, Hey, I don't know everything. Cause I don't know everything either.
And you don't know everything either, but how do you get them to really be comfortable with being vulnerable like that?
AiLun Ku: Well, I think you did something beautiful and amazing, which is you ask questions, right? And you help them see themselves in such a beautiful and dynamic light. And, and we try to do that every step [00:07:00] that we have in the way that we interact with our young people.
And so I would say. One is bringing in speakers and guests and for staff to model for our young people that we make mistakes. We don't know everything. And when we don't know it, we'll try to figure it out together. And so for so long, our students, our alumni, tell us, bring in more speakers that are willing to talk about failures and mistakes Because that's where the interesting things happen. We are less interested in this perfect, beautiful journey, how one person got from point a to point B to point C because that's unrealistic. And so we took that feedback really, really, really, deeply. And so we said, okay, let's make sure every speaker we bring in every interaction we have We gesture to the idea of mistakes and failures. And so when we normalize it right in conversation, then it becomes normalized for our young people, right? In the way that they [00:08:00] can talk about an issue and share their experiences without this undue burden of shame. Right. That carries with that, that usually goes with making mistakes.
Dan Ryan: So I love that you're bringing, and I'm actually jealous because I wish that, um, When I was younger, I wish someone would come up to me and say, Hey, tell me about your failures and mistakes. Learn from them. I see it all now, like as a 46 year old, old dude. But like, I remember failing, I failed so many times, but right.
Every time you fail, you get back up. Right. Or we hope we all get back up. Um, one of the times that was the most. Powerful to me as I was in a very dark place after a failure. And I was riding on a bus with my daughter up to actually to go see Lisa and Frank, who I was just telling you about. They had a place up in that in the Catskills.
And, um, there was a woman sitting in front of me with a computer and she was typing and typing. I think she was coding [00:09:00] something. And she kept leaning forward. Her shirt said something and I don't know what it exactly was. I couldn't read it. And then she leaned all the way forward once, and it just said failure is just unfinished learning.
And it really, it was like one of those signposts that helped me see some light at the end of the tunnel. And I was 'like, oh yeah, that's awesome. And to hear you starting with these kids. At sometimes for 15 years old, 16 years old, it start thinking about that. It, they have such a leg up from everyone because I think we're all so full of shame and don't want to go there and, and learn from those stories.
AiLun Ku: Right? Well, I mean, especially our oppnet students, so we recruit from high schools and the students are coming to us with a GPA of 85 and above. So they're not used to definitely not used to academic.
Dan Ryan: Um, that's right. Cause they're all amazing. Like they're all super. Yeah. They're all so smart and amazing and thoughtful and detail oriented.
Yeah.
AiLun Ku: [00:10:00] So every year we ask our students in our application, like what are two or three words you would describe yourself? And the most used word is always funny. I love that about our students, the way they see themselves is rooted in joy. And how amazing is that? Um, and, and so. I was. So anyways, now I'm getting off topic, but
Dan Ryan: to be a highly performing at 85 or a higher GPA, like how do you, what are strategies that you guys have to make them feel comfortable with talking about their failures?
Because oftentimes we all have this facade of like, how do we break through that?
AiLun Ku: I think it helps when we. In conversation, we can't know everything. Right. And so a student might come to us and say, tell me all the ways, uh, to be a success in hospitality. If one of our students came to me today, 15 minutes from now asking me that question, my answer would be, I don't know, but let's figure it out to.
Right. I think in [00:11:00] other kind of in, especially in the educator and student dynamics, it oftentimes can be like, oh, here are the three things that I know, and this is the way to go, but you can really steer somebody off track, but pretending, you know, more than you actually do and not admitting to kind of that, that inadequacy and that.
Uh, version of modeling for our students, you can be vulnerable, right? You don't have to know all the answers. We can figure it out and showcasing places where we, where we made a mistake. So we asked for students for feedback all the time. They probably want to do less of it. Then you ask them questions and too many surveys.
Um, and so we said, how can we do better? And tell us how we can do better out of all the workshops you did, which ones were your favorite, which one was the most useful and which ones you'd be like probably never again. Right. And that's important feedback for us. And then we re we fucked that back and said, this is what you told us.
We, we missed the mark on this. Thank you for the feedback. And here's how we're going to do better.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I also [00:12:00] can't imagine being a family that. To the United States that probably doesn't speak English as their first language that would come in and then be navigating whatever school system they're in.
Then it's like, oh my God, placement tests, classes, this and that college is like, what is all this stuff? And how, how do we even navigate all that? And just, it's really just about making them feel comforted. But you've done such a good job of it holistically. Like just to give us to give all the listeners a, um, an order of magnitude to get their head around.
Like how many kids have gone through the program from high school through college and to internships. And now as alumni, how many kids have you impacted positive?
AiLun Ku: So I've met was founded 19 years ago. And so folks that have graduated have gone through the whole trajectory, um, are roughly about 450 students [00:13:00] in that category and this year.
And because when we first started, we served. A small classes of students, 10, 15 at most. And over the past eight years, we really grew as an organization. So this year alone was serving 1100 students, uh, from high school all the way through college. So these are students who have not yet graduated.
Dan Ryan: Wow. And then, so as they apply, they get into the opportunity network.
You guys are coaching them through all of your networking awareness, education, and just guidance.
And this ties into the title of the podcast, but like how do you make them comfortable? How do you express hospitality towards.
AiLun Ku: We so in our sectors are something called cultural con competent, uh, and culturally relevant pedagogy. So it's the idea that before you're in a room, you first anticipate what are the cultures that are going to be represented [00:14:00] and to use examples and anecdotes that reflect back the lived experiences and the cultural experiences of our young.
And so we do that through a number of ways. And so when we facilitate courses and especially right now in virtual learning, let's take a really easy example. What are the images that you see? Do you see people that look like you? Right. And do we use references that are familiar to. And do we use stories that speak back to what other alumni who have very similar experiences or perhaps grew up in similar, uh, neighborhoods or communities also share, right.
And so kind of creating the sense of familiarity and comfort is it's woven throughout everything that we do and the way that we talk to our students and the way that they see themselves in the curriculum, right in the way that we bring in our guests and speakers and highlight and amplify story. So it's an every element, every corner.
Right. Our students can see themselves a version of themselves somewhere reflected and that's really, really important. [00:15:00] And we also, you know, I think it's also creating a, a, uh, our staff does a really, really good job with this, uh, creating conditions for comfort laughter joy. And care. So what's the culture of care at oppnet that you can come to us with something that isn't related to college and career, and we'll still help you figure it out, right?
We don't say, sorry, that's not my job, please go away. Right. And so that culture of care is also really important. Um, and we have an assistant director of wellness supports and his name is Carl and he supervises a team of social work interns, whose job is to. Identified the set of resources that tend to our students wellness, overall wellness.
And that's another extension of culture of care.
Dan Ryan: So when I hear you talk about all these things from laughter to joy, to culture of care and wellness, like to me, those are all [00:16:00] words that are very dry value-driven right. So if you think about the values and purpose of oppnet, like, what are your values and how do you live by them and how do you.
Use them to build a culture.
AiLun Ku: So we have, we, we have our active core values and I'll name a few, um, that, and also share examples for how we live them. One is that we value the collective and we care about the individual. So we hold both collective as the community sense, as well as what each individual needs in order to thrive.
And that person's ability to self-determine their futures, right. Their goals. And so we do this in a couple of ways. Um, and so in the collective. Scent is how do we build community? How do we curate a class? How do we bring folks together? So they can exchange ideas, learn about each other, even from in New York, this is a [00:17:00] very New York city thing, right?
Just kind of expanding your idea of what the other borough is about. We have a lovely, we have the best. Competition among the different boroughs. People will be like, oh, Bronx go Brooklyn. Right. People. And we have Staten island in there. Never gets that in Ireland. When we moved downtown, um, five years ago was the first year we were, we were able to bring in students from Staten island and we haven't stopped since.
So it's very exciting for us. Um, and so just this, just this exchange, right. And holding collectives and building community based on shared, shared, uh, Characteristics or histories or lived experiences. And then from the individual side is we allow for nuance and for each individual to come up and say, there's no one set way to do anything.
Right. We're going to move you through a college guidance process. For example, where you get to learn about the one-on-ones of what does it mean to apply to [00:18:00] college? What are the processes? What's the paperwork you need and what's the common app, et cetera. And at the same time, each one of our students have one-on-one individual guidance with our staff and they sit and they say, what does fit mean for you?
College fit means different things for different people. And so, and that's where the kind of our students get really, really excited to think about the possibilities because they, you know, what really matters to me, Greek life. Some of our students will say that. And you're like, I didn't, I had no idea.
Okay. Let's use that as a starting point. And some of our students will say what really matters to me is that their scientific research operation. Right. And some would be like, I don't actually know. I need you to help me figure that out and calibrate. So we allow for that individualism to show up. So it's both the collective and the individual.
Now the next piece, which I know you'll love and speaks to you, which brings folks like you into our, into our fold, into our [00:19:00] community is how much we love the power of storytelling, storytelling, the way that you can claim your identity, be proud of it, and also use it as the. To chart the path forward.
Right? What's the story you want to tell about yourself and what's the story you want to claim for your family and for generations to come. And so we use the storytelling piece, like you were saying earlier, uh, in your work with Mohammed, right? The cat was just asking questions. And have them reflect and see, see backwards.
Wow. The how amazing, uh, you know, their family has been there for them, helping them and supporting them and fueling their ambitions to go to the colleges that they're excited to go into, um, and apply for them and all that. This another one. And then we have a bunch of other, uh, active core values that we have, but centering social justice.
Right. And so at oppnet we work entirely with [00:20:00] young people of color. And so we have to send her our values around. What does it mean? Not only just to do good, but to do. W working our way towards justice for our young people. You think about the systems at play, what barriers they face, just the moment from the moment they wake up and the moment they open their eyes and what can we do to break down those barriers.
Dan Ryan: So, wow. So just kind of unpacking all of that because I love the idea of storytelling and from my experience with Mohammad and just all the, so many of the other. Um, and or students that I experienced through going through oppnet when you understand, or I'm going to even say you when they understand, or when we all understand the story of where we came from, and then also understand that we have the ability to chart that course forward.
Like you said, it's so. Empowering. Right. And it's so intentional. [00:21:00] And I know that you just briefly, uh, glanced upon the fact that you have wellness supports, um, as well for, for the students. But if you really think about it and in being intentional, it's really all about supporting wellness and a well-rounded individual and giving them that confidence that they can chart their own course forward.
And it's. It's just humbling to see how many kids that you, you have brought up through this system and have matriculated onward, and then how everyone just seems to be paying it forward. And as you think about collective value value of the collective, but also care about the individual, I think it also goes towards the ultimate question of this podcast, which is like, cause it's so in alignment with all the conversations on hiring, but how do you define hospitals?
AiLun Ku: Hospitality to me is a feeling and a [00:22:00] state of exchange, an exchanging care, exchanging culture. Um, and it feels like you're being wrapped in a warm blanket of your own choice. That's what the hospitality feels like.
Dan Ryan: But I love that you just said a warm blanket of your own choice, because then again, it comes back to this idea of being intentional and having a choice, right?
Again, going back to that family that comes from who knows where lands in the United States, they made a choice to get to here in some way, shape or form. They didn't know what was going to come next. And in fact, the Byzantine insanity of just navigating everything. It's just so overwhelming, but it's always, it's constantly making choices and moving forward.
Um, and ha and realizing that we all have a say [00:23:00] in what our future is, even though some of us may not feel that we do. I think ultimately we all do as long as we can all uncover our purpose, which is what you are, helping, all these, all these amazing kids do. And then also provide care and support and love unconditional love.
I think if you have purpose and unconditional love, Everything is achievable.
AiLun Ku: Absolutely.
Dan Ryan: I love that. So, as you are getting into, like you also mentioned social justice a lot. So then if you think about all these amazing students that are coming through, they're applying, you're helping them write their own story, write their own story, plan, their own future. What are some of the most incredible outcomes of, from a perspective of social justice that you've seen?
If you can give us some, give us some examples
AiLun Ku: in the context of
Dan Ryan: oppnet. [00:24:00] Yeah. Yeah. So you're arming all these kids. You're educating them. You're opening your eyes, creating, creating awareness, like helping them, supporting them on this path. Like walk me through some shining examples of social justice.
AiLun Ku: I think the examples, uh, Sit with institutions.
I want to say so, so on. So we work with young people. We also work with institutions and I'm going to use institutions as an example, because the way we think about social justice is where people in mass experience justice, as opposed to one person accessing justice. Right? And so in this. It's through that frame.
I'll use examples working with employers. So oppnet has a program called opportunity ignited. We work with employer partners [00:25:00] to train their managers up and partner with them to create conditions where talent of color thrive. Right. And that's from interns all the way into the C-suite. Right? So it's not just about pipelining from the very kind of entry-level jobs.
So that means looking at policy structures, how you hire, how you support, how you sponsor, how you promote everything in between, but then also, how do you manage and example. Of that is having people getting aha moments where they realize they see managers, hiring managers or supervisors have the power just to make somebody feel seen, included, and belong in their day to day job.
And when that happens in critical mass workplaces transfer, Right. And so we don't use, you know, diversity [00:26:00] metrics as proxies for a thriving environment. And so when every manager can say, okay, when my colleague of color is being interrupted in meetings, I'm going to stop that from. When I see my colleagues of color, not being promoted at the same rate as their counterparts, their white counterparts.
I'm going to say something or there's other examples of looking at. You know, mentorship programs and sponsorship programs, which are different, right? So we talk often about what does it mean to mentor somebody versus what does it mean to sponsor someone? So mentorship, it's a one-on-one relationship.
It's that person that's really there to cheerlead with. You reflect back with you, support you, and you have a level of vulnerability with them. A sponsor may not have a relationship with you, but they know about you and they know about what skill sets and talent that you bring to the table. And they say your [00:27:00] name when you're not in.
And then make sure you're accessing opportunities, right. And in those rooms and at those tables, and we want our young people to have both. And so when that's happening in mass, in workplaces, you can fundamentally change how justice is accessed in the workplace for people of color.
Dan Ryan: And you said three things being seen or feeling seen, feeling included and feeling heard.
Through all of these conversations. And as far as making others feel comfortable in discussing hospitality, and I feel like those are just the three basic human needs, right. I mean, I'm sure there's more, but you know, as not an expert in delivering hospitality, but a fan of like, When I experience someone else making me feel comfortable.
I know when I make someone else feel comfortable, it's really how to, and it's coming up, whether it's in shelters, that from people from guests that I've spoken [00:28:00] to from hotels to businesses to anywhere, it's just, how do we let people know that? Yeah, I see. I'm including you and I hear
AiLun Ku: you. Yeah. So I'm doing this research project, um, with MIT media lab and an artificial intelligence company called local voices network and
Dan Ryan: MIT media lab.
Yes.
AiLun Ku: Yeah. Um, I'm conducting, so my, I have a team of facilitators are conducting 10 in-depth conversations with. BiPAP talent and talking about the future of work. And we are seven conversations in, and I can tell you three primary themes that come up over and over again, that what this next class is our work floor force is looking for.
They're looking for opportunity. They're looking for autonomy and they're looking for humanity. These three [00:29:00] things come up over and over again. And these are diverse folks from all across the nation. Some of them are going to college. Some of them are not, and it doesn't matter. These three things continue to anchor what the, what everyone wants.
I don't think it's news. Right? It's so simple and so complex at the same time.
Dan Ryan: Like, let's break that down. That's amazing. Those three big points because. You know, it also goes into, I've talked to people who have written books on building a company culture, for instance, where it's worth doing wrong is the name of one of the books.
Hey, just for your people, it's worth doing wrong. Just try it. Because if everyone has a say in the culture that they're a part of corporately, whether it's hospitality or finance or law or whatever, everyone has an opportunity to be a part of that have a part of that and also have an opportunity for. On the autonomy thing, that's really [00:30:00] resonating with me tremendously.
Now, you know, everyone talks about the three-day workweek or the four or five day or four day or remote hybrid that autonomy, I don't think is going away, but it also provides, provides a whole bunch of challenges on the other side. Like how do you, if you're autonomous, how do you make them feel? The culture, how do you make them give them an opportunity to feel a part of that?
And then on the humanity side, again, I think that's those three things seen, included in heard. So in unpacking all these through the, whatever, I think you said AI or machine learning or something like that, how are you, how are you having those seven conversations and how are they getting distilled into these three?
AiLun Ku: So these are the three themes that I've heard. And what I love about this platform is these are human centered humans, facilitated conversations, and the conversations gets transcribed. And what happens to the transcribed conversations. They go into this artificial intelligence platform and it [00:31:00] catalogs the conversation.
And a catalogs, a conversation. So you can actually see the conversations the way they've been cataloged. So you can see invite if you're kind of searching for the word autonomy, right. It essentially helps you see all the places in the conversation where. Derivatives of that word shows up and how often it is being said.
So you can actually, it's essentially a qualitative research tool. So we are, we're doing 10 of them. So we're seven in, and these are the, the primary things that we've been hearing. Um, and the group is called local voices network as a part of cortico AI. And it's an incredible tool and it's intended to amplify concrete community conversations.
Right. And so we, we have folks who were in college.
To don't want to go to college. And currently in the job force, folks who have graduated from college talents and we asked them, what are you looking for? What are you looking for? And how do you define the future of work? And so these are, this is how the three themes have come up. [00:32:00]
Dan Ryan: And I'm curious if you went back 10 years ago, what do you think they would have been, or did they, how, how long do they have data?
Have those three themes evolved.
AiLun Ku: They have the piece around humanity is basic and also nuanced. I think it kind of reflects back to our world. If you had asked us 10 years ago, what humanity meant in the workplace? It might've sounded more like autonomy.
Right. In the sense that you like in the, in the current discourse of what folks are asking for from their employers? I think if you think about a 10 years ago, it was like, oh, I want more flexible schedule. I want to be able to work from home. Right. So the ability to actually tend to life and work at the same time is, is what I, you know, in my point of view.
But I think how folks might have interpreted like defined humanity, which is different than. Everybody wants to be [00:33:00] seen in her, but I think if you fast forward now in the, kind of with the pandemic with racial reckoning in the United States and what we're, what's in the public discourse now, I think the humanity definition is actually a much more expansive and more inclusive, uh, voices from, from various, uh, demographic and folks.
Dan Ryan: So now, like I always like to talk about this. I call it a star Trek future, where there's where w is where at some point where we realized like we're all people and our differences are really not that great. We're just, we're all people. Now I understand we're in a place where we have to work really hard to get to that level of equity or equilibrium, but how do you see.
Things playing out in from your worldview within the next, I dunno, five years, 20 years, like where, where I feel like we're in this like [00:34:00] super, um, hyper speed lurch forward to where everyone is being seen, included in heard, but we still have so much farther to go. Like, how are you see, how do you see it in like in the big.
AiLun Ku: Ah, I see the big picture,
inclusive of more being better at holding the tension of the past with our future and what they mean by that is. Look at the jobs and the places where our young people work, both small companies, large companies, fortune 500 companies, small community-based organizations. There's still attention in which I think where voices and ideas from folks of color are not yet [00:35:00] taking on the weight, the space.
That it ought to, to be fully participants of those conferences, full participants, other conversations. So until that happens, we're not truly, we can w we can be very similar in terms of like, we're all humans and people at the end of the day, but we're still being treated differently, which, which is prevents us from being active part of the.
Of designing that future. Right. And so what I see in the big picture is that we do course correct for that. We do need to center more young people of color and what they see as the future so that we can expand what our imagination has allowed us to see thus far, because we haven't even asked, we have to ask them.
Right. And
Dan Ryan: that goes back to the beginning of what you were saying, where it's like. [00:36:00] Asking all these questions. Do you see you here?
AiLun Ku: Yes. And, but then I see, but it's also, it takes human one-on-one interactions where you sat down with Mohammed and said, I have all these questions for you. And that fundamentally changed how he saw himself.
And so that we keep building from there. Right. Because I think it's, it's about. Being a part of the conversation and we can't be a part of the conversation if we're not invited in. Right. And so I think it's, so I think it's both folks making more space. I think folks taking up more space and so that we can actually, um, you know, shape the future together.
Right. Because it's not about one, one party over the.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And something about that you said resonated, whereas having we're staying intention with the past. Right? Okay. So we're charting this course [00:37:00] forward, but it's almost as if that, like we have to respect the past. We have to see where we came from because that's also part of our story.
That's the, that's how we arm ourselves to be intentional about the story we're going to write going forward. And then I. Bringing it all back to hospitality. That's what I love about hotels, restaurants, bars, because it's really done well, they're not these buildings or environments that just land on some, a foreign planet that exists just by themselves.
They bring in the community, they promote, they promote collisions. Between people that you're there with intentionally, and then also the person sitting next to you or the person you're standing next to it. A check-in. And I do feel like we really have to, over-correct now coming out of this whole pandemic because we've gotten so siloed.
Right. And everything is so remote that we [00:38:00] need to do everything we can. Bring us all together. And actually, that's why I'm really excited for, um, the oppnet gala. That's coming up on May 4th because you didn't do it last year or the year before. And I'm just, I think this is maybe the first big gala that I'm going to be going to.
That's not an industry related, uh, thing for me, but something that I'm really passionate about and just to be able to see people. See these kids and see where they, where they've gone and like hear more stories. I'm so freaking excited. I think we're all thirsty for that.
AiLun Ku: Yeah. Say I made it will be our coming back to partying party.
Dan Ryan: It's going to be amazing. And then I'm also just, you know, When you have your, um, you give out awards to students, um, and just to hear their story where they had this huge platform and just everyone, is there listening and, and hearing them and seeing them. I mean, some of the stories I've heard over the years are just [00:39:00] humbling and inspiring at the same time.
AiLun Ku: Yeah. And we asked her students, you know, we, we do an open casting call almost say, who has a story that you want to tell? And what is that story? We, that's a big invitation and a big ask. Right. And we get you to full stories and they're so moving. And at the core of it, you're going to hear opportunity.
You're going to hear autonomy and you're going to hear right. Um, the humanity.
Dan Ryan: I love it. And also just charting back to, you know, how you're on here on this defining hospitality podcast. I don't, I think it was 2019 just before the, the pandemic happened. I think it was 2019. I interviewed Brian Weinstein Weinstein, who was a friend of mine, but also co-founder of opportunity network in Los Angeles at this independent lodging Congress event.
And he was just telling his, his experience. [00:40:00] Being involved in some of the impacts that they had, that he had on students. And that he'd just seen with students over the years. And then I was like, I was so inspired in front of like 300 people. I was like, oh my God, I want to get this into our industry. I want to get five interns placed in hospitality.
And then the pandemic happened again, failure being unfinished learning. I think that for so many of these students coming out and for anyone really. The S the path that the career path and the trajectory of that career path within hospitality is so steep right now, you can come in at any, at any level.
And because we're also star for people as we come out of this, um, whatever we've just been through, um, the, the path of growth is so incredibly steep right now.
AiLun Ku: So what's your advice for how our students can get started?
Dan Ryan: I think the advice is [00:41:00] just keep coming to these events and I, and I want to get more people from my industry into.
Some of your speed networking and just to show them like what an amazing career exists within this industry. So I'm, I'm, I want to use this podcast with you and also the upcoming gala as just some traction to just get some momentum behind this. I know that we've, we've had some small successes, but I really want to get more and more.
I want to get oppnet. Um, a previous guest we had on here, um, is Damon and he is. Kind of on the steering committee for lack of a better word for a lot of money. That's being applied to Howard university and their hospitality program. And how do we tap and how do we open the eyes of the kids that are going to Cornell or going to Howard or going to wherever that has a hospitality program and create awareness around this?
Cause I think the only way that the first way that we can change anything is through [00:42:00] awareness, right? So how can we create more awareness around this? Yeah,
AiLun Ku: well, definitely come to our events, definitely meet our young people and we should figure out a way to promote your podcasts on our learning management system.
So our learning management system, we all, obviously the whole world went virtual, so SOTA it. So we launched our learning, learning management system that has our asynchronous modules, but we also have career. Um, that we host on our system. So it's not just for our fellows. So the 1100 or so fellows that we serve, but it's also for our alumni and it's available open access to 10,000 students across the nation.
And so if we're talking about access, that's a really easy and meaningful. That's you know
Dan Ryan: what I'll go through. [00:43:00] Um, that's a great idea. I'll go through some previous episodes and see which ones kind of make the most sense for, uh, creating that awareness. And maybe like, I'll just pick out a couple and I'll send them your way to put them up there and see what happens.
Actually. That's a great idea. See, that's why you're the CEO. Um, yeah, so, okay, so now shifting gears. To where we are right now. Like what's keeping you up at night right now.
AiLun Ku: Ah, what's keeping me up at night. I think this idea of recovery and this is recovery across all different senses. I think our communities that have been so severely impacted by COVID loss of jobs.
Just the transition of jobs and some community members, the loss of caregiving adults, that's a really heavy and serious one. [00:44:00] Um, how do you actually recover from that recovering in terms of your learning? Right. Having the whole world. Virtual and not enough capacity to support virtual learning, both from a hardware capacity, from a teacher training capacity and also from connectivity.
Right. And so there was a lots of lost opportunity over the course of the pandemic. So how do you recover from that? How do we recover as an institution who has always done in-person face-to-face engagement and now having gone two years and virtual setting to recover, um, Those types of relationships, it's going to take time.
It's going to take effort. And then how do we, you know, recover as a nation in terms of opportunities and healing and access. And the labor market is, feels like the wild west right now.
Dan Ryan: W w [00:45:00] what was your, um, teammates name? Who doing the wellness? Carl Carl. So what does Carl say about recovery in general?
Because I think that that fully ties into just wellness overall, right? Yeah. Yeah.
AiLun Ku: Well, Carla will have a lot to say he's super smart, super thoughtful. And a couple of things that I know we, the Carla has led in our organization is one. Integrating and normalizing and sustaining consistent conversations about wellness.
And because we work with young people first is having them develop their own sense of what wellness means for them. And that's different for everyone. Uh, and then have. A sense of agency and accessing the supports or feeling that it can ask for help to access those supports. Um, so whether it's, you know, getting counseling or going to referral services, whatever the heck it is, um, that they feel like they have a sense of agency to ask [00:46:00] for that.
Um, and one thing you had talked about earlier, And I'm bringing it back. Now, you talked about this unconditional love and support. And so Carl in his field of study and he actually taught me, this is unconditional positive regard. So it's a technical term. Is that you. Hold space for our young people. And you always hold them to the highest regard, meaning that they can always do better.
And, um, they have every opportunity to fail without the consequences of loss of support, just because they fail at something. It doesn't mean they lose. As a caring adult in their life. Right. And so kind of that approach is woven throughout everything we do at off-net right. We hold our students to high expectations.
We leave them the space to make mistakes and fail because they know there's no consequences that we're going to leave them. Uh, and just because they've made them. [00:47:00]
Dan Ryan: So we were also, before this, we press for court, you were asking me how my son's basketball with. And he was in this place where he, he has he's a good shooter, but he wa he was, he was not taking shots.
He was only running in for layups. I was like, why aren't you taking the shots? You have an open shot. And he said, uh, I'm going to break it, or I'm going to miss it. I was like, well, yeah, you're going to, for every 10 shots, you're going to miss six or six. That's okay. You're going to get, if you're in baseball, you hit 30%.
You're going to go to the hall of fame. So I love the idea of unconditional positive regard because it's, that's how we learn it's that as failures that's that it's making those mistakes is how we learn. And then there's so many instances where, you know, everyone gets a trophy or everyone's kind of has a soft landing, but I think you're also.
Preventing learning from happening when, when, when everyone has, uh, a mattress to land on, if you will. [00:48:00] Um, it's also interesting to me because as I'm having all these conversations and if I were to word map, like. Not like the, I guess in a less sophisticated way that the MIT AI is doing it. Um, but wellness seems to be percolating a lot.
And I think, um, I think that's also a silver lining that's coming out of this pandemic as well because, okay. We were also almost reactive about how we did and what we did, but now how can we write that story going forward again, to steal from you? Right? It's like, how can we be. More proactive and intentional, which really promotes, I think, overall wellness, if we're just more mindful about everything.
Um, okay. So that was kind of, what's keeping you up at night and I know we've touched upon my star Trek future, cause I'm just like a huge SciFinder, but, um, what's exciting you about the future.[00:49:00]
AiLun Ku: Always, always, always, they're so fun. They're so bright and they make me laugh and give me hope. So always are young people.
Dan Ryan: I love so much how just laughter joy care, fun. All this is just, it's just always oozing through everything you do and everything I'm hearing and, and they are fun if you just let them be fun.
Yep.
AiLun Ku: They are very fun.
Dan Ryan: And then before you started it off net, what really drew you to the organization? Like where were you before hoop, who was island before? And then how did you get so drawn into it and become such an important part of it? Like how
AiLun Ku: did that happen? So right before Avnet net, I worked in admissions at NYU.
Robert F. Wagner graduate school of [00:50:00] public service. And I, it's where I went to get my graduate degree. I love that school. I love the pedagogy and it admissions as the director of enrollment management. And my task was to bring in the best in class and. And increase every target in terms of diversity, diversity.
And so I did that job for two years and what I learned through building the recruitment pipelines yielding the pipelines that met all of our targets was. It's too late. It's too late in the game. We're talking about graduate school. And so there are already so many students that we lost along the way, because we didn't start talking about public service and, and jobs and nonprofit management or in policy early enough that folks seem to know.
They were going to MBA programs, fine. They were going to law school, but also there's a lot of people that can thrive getting an MPA [00:51:00] degree, a master's in number planning, et cetera. So it was just too late in the game. And so that was a big aha moment. I said, okay, I'm too late in this continuum. If I really want to serve people of color, I'm a little bit too late.
And so on. It was an obvious choice because we started working with students at a young, much younger age and it's entirely young people of color. And we were teeny tiny 10 and a half years ago. So I knew I could have an impact. We were six staff per people, and I was the second. And our budget was small.
We serve 200 students and I knew I could get my hands on everything. And I certainly did. I got the right curriculum meet with students through check-ins, you know, write grant proposals, do all of it. And that was 10 and a half years ago. I now, you know, where a $10 million organization serving, you know, 1100 students in New York and another 10,000 across the nation.
It's a big change.
Dan Ryan: And I love [00:52:00] like also just getting in and realizing you're too late. And it's all about like, how do you recruit better? How do you start earlier? How do you create? Because again, you can't change anything. I want you to have awareness of it. Right. And I've seen it in so many different instances and just talking to so many of these students where I don't know when.
14 or 15, I didn't know what the heck was going on, but then they asked these questions. They're like, oh, I want to get involved in architecture. How do I learn more? I was like, oh, well, there's kind of cool programs. You can do that. Just kind of our explorations of architecture or design and this, these are the, oh, I didn't know that.
And then they look into it. I don't know if they wind up going or not, but at least that awareness is created and to be able to start so early, it has such a, a much more profound impact.
So starting early. And then how did you wind up getting into it into admissions?
AiLun Ku: I went to the school and I had worked for [00:53:00] the Dean and other in another capacity. Um, and. So I was a trusted, trusted, uh, player and a known quantity to get into admission. I knew the school inside and out, right. And it went through the program.
I knew the faculty members and I could share with the presbyopic prospective students, what I got out of it. And also in many cases, I was able to tell prospective candidates, we want the. I think that just leaves him equally as
Dan Ryan: important and maybe even more important because if, if they're not the right fit and they're going down that path, it's, that's a very expensive mistake and it's a really long mistake.
So to be able to sometimes the negative feedback we get, again, it's the, from the, not that that's a failure, but we learn so much more from negative feedback often, like, oh, that doesn't feel good. Oh, that will be suffering. Then we do from [00:54:00] positive, right. And then if the island that I'm talking to right now went back to the island that was working in admissions.
What advice would you have for yourself?
AiLun Ku: Oh, I would say figure out a way to fundraise for better, bigger, more inclusive scholarship programs. I would. Tell that version of myself to not work such long hours, because if you always look down and don't look up, you lose, you lose sight of what's important.
Dan Ryan: You lose opportunity and a little bit of humanity as well. Well,
AiLun Ku: you definitely have not none of those three
Dan Ryan: and you're definitely not autonomous.
AiLun Ku: Okay. A lot of work hours. So
Dan Ryan: maybe you would have given yourself a t-shirt that just said opportunity, autonomy and humanity, or at least a sticker that would go at your mirror in the morning or something
like
AiLun Ku: [00:55:00] that.
I'm fin. So I'll just write it with my lipstick on my mirror every morning.
Dan Ryan: Island. I'm so excited, uh, for may the forest. I'm so excited to be a part of oppnet in my own little way. And I'm just so inspired by the work that you're doing. And if people wanted to learn more, um, how could they find you?
AiLun Ku: They can find it's on our website and they can find me directly on my.
Dan Ryan: Awesome.
And we'll put those in the show notes. So, um, island, I just want to say thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time and being here and opening up the world of opportunity for so many kids
AiLun Ku: with me, and also thanks for being a part of our community. We love.
Dan Ryan: I love being there. Um, and I just also want to say thank you to our listeners.
I'll have, uh, information on the show notes for the opportunity network, and I'm sure you'll see some posts out there, but it really makes a profound difference in, in so many students' lives. [00:56:00] And it's really all about making others feel comfortable, comfortable enough to so that they can chart their own path forward.
And I think we can all learn from these students. So, uh, if this has changed your idea of what. To feel or how to make other people feel comfortable and how we all move forward in all progress. Please share the podcast with others and we look forward to hearing from you next time. Thank you.