Defining Hospitality

[00:00:00]
[00:00:25] Dan Ryan: Hey everybody. Today's guest is a fabric guru. He has been awarded for green and sustainability focuses in his business. He is a community and hospitality enthusiast. He is the CEO at valley forge fabric at valley forge fabrics. And he is Mikey Jovin. My best friend, since I was 12 years old.
[00:00:48] How are you ready?
[00:00:49] Mikey Dobin: I'm good. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. Uh, I've been waiting for this since I was 12. So this is great. I know, even before
[00:00:57] Dan Ryan: the podcast existed, it's [00:01:00] like the best thing ever. Yeah. Um, so just so everyone here knows like my whole life in this industry actually would not be possible without my friendship to you.
[00:01:14] And because your parents were in this and were real pioneers in the industry and you opened up this whole amazing world too. And it's one of the things that I know we talk about all the time. I'm freaking so amazingly grateful that we're able to be best friends in life and also be able to talk shop all the time.
[00:01:34] How
[00:01:35] Mikey Dobin: about you? So I love it. Um, I, um, I think as Morpheus said to Neo, I can show you the path, but you need to walk it. So my parents may have introduced you to a couple people, but you got the job interviews and you built yourself in the industry. So they just dropped the matrix right there. They may have just shown you that.
[00:01:57] That was it. But, um, no, I [00:02:00] mean, I'm lucky I get to speak to my best friend, um, almost every day. And we definitely talk about shop all the time. And, um, I think you said a few years ago at one of the trade shows, we went to. We were sharing a room. It was actually four of us in one room. You said when we're 60, are we still going to be sharing rooms at the trade show?
[00:02:21] And we all said, yes. So
[00:02:24] Dan Ryan: one of those people is
[00:02:24] Mikey Dobin: already 60. Yep. One of those people may already be 60. Yeah. It's crazy. So insane. Um, I think, yeah, and
[00:02:35] Dan Ryan: it's really funny because even as you know, we've grown and developed success and all this stuff, we still love sharing rooms.
[00:02:44] Mikey Dobin: It's the best. Whenever I travel, I always try and stay at friend's houses.
[00:02:51] I mean, there's, everybody has to do their work and, and do what they're there to do wherever they're traveling. [00:03:00] So the only time sometimes you see each other is when you wake up in the morning or right before you go to bed at night. But that, those 20 minutes here and there are priceless to me.
[00:03:09] Dan Ryan: Yeah. And or sometimes it does 20 minutes at night.
[00:03:12] I just remember. You fake real fast and you're just like falling asleep right there, but you're in the presence of the person you're around. That's it. I'm out. You burn so right. Is there, is there a quote from the, uh, from the
[00:03:26] Mikey Dobin: matrix about that, about burning so bright? I'm sure there is. I'll go watch the trilogy again this weekend.
[00:03:34] Uh, I'm actually looking forward to the SQL that's coming out next year. Is it a
[00:03:39] Dan Ryan: SQL or a,
[00:03:42] Mikey Dobin: uh, I can't answer that question, but all I can tell you is I'm excited for whatever is related to the matrix that's coming out. It's going to be great. Awesome.
[00:03:51] Dan Ryan: Well, you know, so talking about being at friend's houses and sharing rooms together and all of this, like, and thinking about the industry that we're in [00:04:00] and kind of what we do, you know, the big question of this podcast that we're doing.
[00:04:05] It's like, how do you, Mikey Dobin define hospitality.
[00:04:12] Mikey Dobin: So for me, hospitality is a place where I feel like it's home away from my home. So I think if it was on my grandmother's pillow, it would say home away from home or something like that. But essentially that's where it is for me. I just want to feel comfortable with where I am. I've been to a huge gamut of different places.
[00:04:36] I've stayed from, uh, lower end hotels to very high end hotels, to friends' couches, to friends, beautiful guest rooms, to friends who have guest houses. And, um, I'm actually not a very fancy person. I just want somewhere where I feel really comfortable to be made. And
[00:04:58] Dan Ryan: so from all of those [00:05:00] different environments, from the big fancy guest house to the Econolodge.
[00:05:08] Is there a, is there something through all that that makes you feel most comfortable? And don't say that spread where you could,
[00:05:15] Mikey Dobin: if you want. Well, you know what, I won't talk about fabric. I won't say the bed. Um, for me, I would say it's environment mixed with social. So the design is very important to me.
[00:05:36] And again, it doesn't have to be a fancy design at justice to be a design that makes me feel a good emotion inside. And the social means just people that I would enjoy being around. So if it's someone's house, it's going to be friends or their kids. Um, um, if it's a [00:06:00] hotel, I just want to really friendly.
[00:06:03] Bunch of people there, whether it's other guests or whether it's the staff at the hotel, it tells with super fancy staff, I kind of felt out of place.
[00:06:13] Dan Ryan: Wow. Exactly. Okay. So that's interesting. And it kind of ties into the question I wanted to ask on, you know, you do have you do Curry favor with some of like the most atrocious hotels I've ever seen.
[00:06:30] Like you love saying, you're like, it's almost like you have a sense of pride of staying at some of these places with like blood on the walls and just insanity. Right? It's like, it's like a badge of honor for you. But like when you talk about the people in the environment, like both of those things are lacking.
[00:06:46] So in that instance, how do you find joy in that? I'm curious about that one.
[00:06:52] Mikey Dobin: Uh, so I don't know if I've stated a blood on the wall one for a while. I think I grown out of that phase of my life, or that was a badge [00:07:00] of honor. Yeah. But I do love staying at places where I can walk up to the front desk. We can joke around, I learned their names so that when I walk by, I can say hi.
[00:07:14] And there are certain hotels that do this better than better than others. And there are those hotels where, you know, you just, you want to ask the person where they're from, who they are, they're the type of person you want to talk to. That's really where I want to say. And so sometimes, um, I don't know. I think I sometimes shock people with that.
[00:07:38] I just want to meet everybody. I think I'm just an extreme extrovert, but I, um, but I do, and it's fun for me. And when I, when I go to hotels that have very rigorous processes and their people almost feel like they don't want to talk too much or say the wrong thing, then, uh, I don't really love that hotel as much.
[00:07:59] [00:08:00] So.
[00:08:01] Dan Ryan: I think you may have just said it right there. You are an extreme extrovert. And that's one of the things that like, I've been so drawn to you over the past it 30, 40 years, however long it's been over the past multiple decades. And actually now that you said that what came into my feeling is that, okay.
[00:08:23] So if the, if the environment and the people are really lacking, you actually bring this energy to create your own level of comfort and hospitality and welcome as your own heart. Right.
[00:08:35] Mikey Dobin: I try to, and you know, sometimes my kids don't love it. Um, we went and stayed at a hotel, uh, several months ago in Captiva, north in Florida.
[00:08:46] It's a few hours north of us. And, um, Everyone. I spoke to, I looked at their name badge, and I referred to them by name and my kids. Um, my 13 and 14 year old son, dad, that's, it's uncomfortable. [00:09:00] Why are you calling them by their name? They, they, they, I think it's surprising them because no one does that. I said, well, there are people, they're human.
[00:09:07] Why wouldn't people do that? Um, when I stop at the edge of a highway and there's somebody who's asking for a dollar, which happens a lot at the, at the side of the highway in Florida, um, I always say, what's your name? And they tell me their name. And I say, oh, I'm Mikey, nice to meet you. And I give them a buck and my kids have always thought that was a little odd because most people don't do that.
[00:09:31] But I always want to talk to everybody. I don't care who they are and everybody's got a name and I want to know who they are.
[00:09:39] Dan Ryan: It's funny something about the kids and the name and the first name made me think back to when I first met your dad. And I said, oh, hi, Mr. Dobin, I'm Dan. And he was like, I forget what he said.
[00:09:51] It's like, who's Mr. Dobin. I'm Dan. And do any of your kids or you're like, what happens when your kid's friends call you? [00:10:00] Mr. Govan? Does that happen?
[00:10:02] Mikey Dobin: What do you say? I say, you really need to call me Mikey. I said, that makes me very uncomfortable.
[00:10:08] Dan Ryan: So going in with this whole idea of comfortable in like, how you feel comfortable when you're in people's homes or in hotels, you know, you've always been so welcoming to others and not just in your home, but also as an entrepreneur in your business.
[00:10:27] And I'm just, I'm curious, like, and maybe there's, there's a similar thread that ties them all together, but like what's, what are some of the things that you do to make other people's feel other people feel comfortable around you.
[00:10:43] Mikey Dobin: I think it may depend on the situation, but, um, relatively good at reading people. And I think that listening is that was really important. Well, [00:11:00] um, people want to be heard. There are people who don't want to talk that much, but want to laugh and I'm happy to help them in, in laughter. But I think people need to feel, uh, a human connection.
[00:11:17] And sometimes we go into situations where we feel we have to act a certain way or project a certain something, and really, we just need to be people. And I think that's the best way to make anyone else feel comfortable. So I'm very lucky. I have a lot of great relationships with people and. I am, uh, confident that people will say that I'm extremely real.
[00:11:48] If I'm, you know, going through something, I'll talk about it. I'm not ashamed of it. We're all gonna go through stuff. Um, and some of it's embarrassing, but I'm not ashamed. There's a [00:12:00] little bit of a difference for me, and I'm really happy to talk about it. And I think that once one person opens up to the other, then you move on from cocktail conversation and you move to real conversation.
[00:12:14] Dan Ryan: No, I've experienced that a lot with you and I, and maybe that's why we're also so intertwined because I feel that, that, that, I guess it's like empathy or sympathy, or just understanding once you get to those deeper levels, it makes almost a space between two people speaking. That hearth and that area of comfort.
[00:12:38] Mikey Dobin: Um, we've lost that by the way as a society of it. Um, I do think social media has made that more difficult. So I think, you know, we've all heard the quote, uh, you're comparing your real life to everyone's highlight reel when you're looking at social media. I think that was a big quote two years ago [00:13:00] and it's absolutely true.
[00:13:02] And so while we're looking at everyone's highlight reel, and by the way, I'm not really on social media. So luckily I, I'm not in that, uh, hamster wheel. It wasn't making me happy. I got off a few years ago, five or six years ago, but while we're working at looking at everyone's highlight reel, it doesn't make you feel better about yourself, even though we should all just be happy for the person.
[00:13:24] It makes so many people feel a loss, um, loss of what we might not have loss of what we might not achieve. When people meet other people, there's now a feeling that you have to project your highlight reel almost when you're meeting someone else. And I don't like that. I don't respond well to that. And so most people I meet, I get pretty real right away and it's amazing.
[00:13:51] Their barrier goes down and then you get the real them. It's funny,
[00:13:57] Dan Ryan: particularly within our [00:14:00] industry on the highlight reel part, if I would say like we furnished hotels, right. That's what we do. We're dealing with the insurers. And a lot of our, the people that we're working with are designing those spaces.
[00:14:13] And a lot of those people that are doing that, their clients are, it's a real estate business ultimately, right? It's like, how do you do this? And I found that with a lot of the, a lot of the real estate folks out there, it really is all about the highlight reel because it's as important. And the value of that need.
[00:14:30] Creating these spaces of individual connection. I feel like for men, not all, but many, many ownership groups out there, it's really about the transaction and that game and like building a highlight reel. What do you think
[00:14:46] Mikey Dobin: about that? Um, I would say that I would have agreed with that 10 years ago, and I think things have changed a bit because a lot of the ownership groups now have such a passion for [00:15:00] the properties that they own.
[00:15:02] And you see a lot of ownership groups that used to have a lot more of transactions that are now holding and holding for a long time. I mean, even during the pandemic. The transaction prices really on great properties were really not that discounted. They didn't have to be because it was so much money going on, uh, so much money out there and, and people are still holding onto great properties, properties that I think 10 years ago it would have been a lot faster, uh, to transact those properties.
[00:15:35] And maybe because apart from the pandemic, those properties were cash flowing really well, but I think they also have a deep love for the industry that didn't exist as much. Uh, at least to my memory prior to 10 years ago. That's really
[00:15:54] Dan Ryan: interesting. Cause I didn't want to say all, but I wanted to say many.
[00:15:58] And I also think [00:16:00] that, you know, if you think about the ones who are passionate about it from the top down, when it's like, that's their vision, they want to create these places and they want to create these memories. If you will. It, it transcends from the top down. All the way to the guest experience.
[00:16:16] Whereas it's almost like, you know, when you're in a hotel that it's just a, it's a transaction.
[00:16:24] Mikey Dobin: You could definitely feel the difference in a hotel that's going to be your part of a transaction versus a hotel that is a little bit more owned by someone with a little bit more passion for the business.
[00:16:42] And maybe I should say some of those hotels owned by someone with a passion for the business may still be part of a transaction in the future, but there's still a passion for that owner to develop it into something really unique and really special. And our industry has done a really great [00:17:00] job of that through the years.
[00:17:01] I mean, it used to be that you'd go to hotels in so many cities and you're like, I could be anywhere when I wake up. Today, most of those hotels have a touch of that city that makes you really feel and realize where you are and it feels good.
[00:17:18] Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I think that's super important, especially now, like with the, I don't even know how you define a boutique hotel, a lifestyle hotel, independent hotel, but like, it's kinda like, I don't know, kind of like how the Supreme court was said, I don't know the exact ruling, but the like pornography, you know, it, when you see it, it's like, you know, when you're experiencing one of those hotels, right.
[00:17:42] Where there is that passion, that connection, it's not like a rocket ship or like landed on Mars. And then they just opened this hotel where, where that happens in a lot of places where it's just totally disconnected from everything.
[00:17:57] Mikey Dobin: Yeah. And that takes time. I mean, [00:18:00] building a culture takes time and it's, it's not easy.
[00:18:04] It has to be done organically. You can't fake it. So you definitely feel it wherever you are.
[00:18:10] Dan Ryan: Yeah. It takes so much time and that's probably the hardest part and arguably the most important part of any business.
[00:18:20] Mikey Dobin: Um, yes. I think you will hear that from many people, culture eats strategy for breakfast, and I think that strategy's huge, but I mean, if you have the right culture that will foster people to share ideas, then you're going to come up and have the best strategies.
[00:18:37] So yes, I think culture is more important than anything right now, but it's also like a catchphrase that kind of annoys me because now like everybody's like, oh, company culture have a, you know, a ping pong table and serve beer on. Wednesday afternoons. And you've got a culture and, you know, culture is, is so much more than that.
[00:18:57] I mean, culture is how you work. Culture is [00:19:00] how you interact when you work, how you interact when you're having fun. But it's, it's, it's all of it. It's not just one thing. You can't just buy a couple of things in and have a culture. And every company has their own culture and it's up to those people in the con in the company to, to, to embrace it or to not embrace it.
[00:19:21] But it's, it's really hard to develop one. And I think that we're gonna see a lot of change in company cultures over in the next three years. I don't think work from home forever is sticking. I think we've all come to terms with that. I, it's pretty interesting if you look back in the pandemic at what people said in April and what they said in July and what they said in September, I think we've all come to terms.
[00:19:45] It's not sticking a hybrid of maybe three days a week might be sticking. Sure. But. Building a company culture where everybody's remote versus maintaining a company culture for a year while everyone's remote are very different [00:20:00] things. But I think that with the hybrid that we're maybe coming into now, um, we may see cultures and companies change in a pretty big way that we have not seen yet.
[00:20:11] Dan Ryan: I totally agree. And for most of the friends that I have that have businesses, whether they're hotels or businesses or whatever, this is like the big debate right now. Is it three days? Is it five days? Is it four days? Is it fully remote? Um, and it's a really interesting debate to see play out. But when we first started talking, you said that hospitality is all about like human connection or that that's really what makes you feel comfortable.
[00:20:37] And to
[00:20:37] Mikey Dobin: me,
[00:20:39] Dan Ryan: culture. Is really defined by yes, that human connection, but the human connection as defined by the language that each hotel or business or whatever develops in the way that they communicate with each other through that human connection. So I think that like buying a foosball table or having a beer [00:21:00] keg.
[00:21:00] Okay. That's fun. Or the ping pong table, but really I think the companies and the properties that really nailed a culture thing, right. Is when they're speaking a similar language and that's like a value driven language that it's not just a poster on a wall. Like I I've seen so many companies with posters on a wall that just those words really mean nothing.
[00:21:20] It's like people first I've seen so many companies that don't put people first, especially through the pandemic. And when you can develop across all those values of language that everyone is speaking, it really strengthens and deepens that. Human connection, not just from the, from my experience, not just from the, oh, everything is amazing, but also from those tough conversations and, and being able to speak in that language that everyone respects culturally,
[00:21:48] Mikey Dobin: what do you think about that?
[00:21:49] So, um, first of all, what it brought up in my head when you first described it, what's I remember in those old airplane magazines, you'd see a [00:22:00] row, a team rowing, and it would say teamwork and it would have some things. And I always wondered who bought those, but then I'd see them in people's offices. So there was obviously a great market for them and maybe I just missed it, but I know exactly what you're talking about with those.
[00:22:13] And those always kind of made me laugh. I think, um, I think people first has a lot of different facets. And you, when you mentioned, especially through the pandemic, um, I mean, it was, it was, it was the hardest. Adjustment, especially those first 90 days that I think any company has had to make. And I said to a good friend who, um, cause, uh, he is a very large company, super smart guy.
[00:22:51] And I said to him, I, we saw each other first week of June. We see each other every year, first week of June. And I said, you know, I feel like even though I ran [00:23:00] a business for a lot of years, I never knew how to run a business until the pandemic. And he said, none of us knew how to run a business before the pandemic.
[00:23:08] He said, we all learned so much. And the truth is we all learned a lot personally, uh, in our relationships and in our businesses. People first in the pandemic was tough because a lot of companies, especially in our industry, had to do some right-sizing at the beginning of the pandemic. And so even though that may have happened in past recessions, it was never like this.
[00:23:37] And it was never as quickly. And as immediate as this and what we all learned was that we had to actually practice what we've heard for so long, which was sometimes you do have to make some personnel changes to make sure that the [00:24:00] majority of the people you are putting first. And it's so easy to say that, but it's really hard at the time to do it.
[00:24:06] It was some of the most gut wrenching, most awful days. Ever was at the beginning of the frenetic. And I remember we were reading in newspapers, uh, like on our iPads and not saying I read, you know, fuzzy newspapers anymore, but that, um, some of the big hotel chains had to put people on furlough and, and, and there were so many naysayers to it.
[00:24:29] And I remember thinking, you know, people's revenue are going to zero. They're going to zero. Like you, you, you, you can't just say I'm going to do nothing, because then all of the people in those organizations, those organizations wouldn't survive. And there has to be an engine in the world of business that is employing all of us, whether you own the business or not, [00:25:00] you're still employed by the business.
[00:25:02] And I just remember reading so many articles where people were so judgmental about it. I think every company had to make their own decision. And I don't think that decision was easy for, for, for any company that was out there. So
[00:25:20] Dan Ryan: I totally hear what you're saying on the right side seat and just like keeping the boat afloat and going, what I, what I was meaning more on the people first side was, you know, I would go into, I went into so many hotels during the pandemic and, you know, it's, it's people first and the, and everything looks beautiful and everything for the guest experience, but then you go into the employee, the break room and it's like the most disgusting place you could ever see.
[00:25:46] So there was just like a disconnect between like, okay, people first, like our customers are having this great experience, but really how do we treat our people inside? Whether they're like the ones who were working there and not, and I understand the whole, the right size of it, that was just [00:26:00] like super illuminating and surprising to me.
[00:26:03] And that's, that's kinda more what I meant on the, on the people first side, but I totally hear what you're saying. And all those other spots, but like in your experience with that whole looking outward versus how you're treating your actual people inside, like, what do you see on that front from a cultural point of view,
[00:26:21] Mikey Dobin: a huge difference.
[00:26:22] I mean, if you want people to treat the customers with respect and to bring happiness, then you need to bring happiness to the people you work with. So if you go into a break room that is like a dungeon and it's awful. Well, I could imagine that the relationships that the people working there form with the customer are not going to be as good as they could be, not even close.
[00:26:55] And when you have amazing customer service somewhere really amazing [00:27:00] ask the person who's giving you that customer service. How do you like where you work? They will either. Amazing. Great, fantastic. When you're getting bad customer service, if you really want to know how that person likes, where they work, they will probably say it is a job I deal with.
[00:27:17] I don't like it. I don't like how I'm treated. It's as simple as that. So people first actually does create profitability and it creates a stickiness with clients because it's going to translate out to the clients. But no, a lot of companies don't see it and it's, it's unfortunate, but it translates to everything.
[00:27:37] I mean, we have acquired businesses in the past and when we put a lot of people first, um, not just activities and culture, but just changing the way the manufacturing is making things easier for people. Um, and, and just putting a different level of care. And certainly even a fresh coat of paint and aesthetic can make a big difference.
[00:27:58] Then the output [00:28:00] you get, the quality you get, um, everything completely changes it. It's the right thing to do, but it also has an ROI to it in a business.
[00:28:10] Dan Ryan: Yeah. Which is sometimes that ROI is really hard to measure, but it's like, again, you know, it, when you see it, you know what, when you feel it and it kind of has a halo effect that maybe it's that I, I dunno, I feel like it's hard to trace back to like on a binary fashion, but like it's definitely measurable in some way.
[00:28:31] Mikey Dobin: It's very measurable in some way. I will say though, that one of the hardest things for me has always been, you cannot make everyone happy. You just can't. And so you really we've really had to focus on, you know, what's gonna, what's going to be right for the 80 or 90% and. We always hear the 1% where there's an issue and then [00:29:00] the 99 compliments you get.
[00:29:01] You're like, I didn't hear any of that. Nobody said any of that. And, um, so it's hard. You always have to, um, what did someone say to me once the main thing is to keep the main thing, the main thing, and really it's, it's understanding what makes the majority of people in your organization really fulfilled and really happy.
[00:29:26] Um, and not being swayed by a few critics that see a different direction. And if they do that's okay. But it's just sometimes, sometimes we listen to the loudest angry voice and we don't listen to the 99 happy people.
[00:29:46] Dan Ryan: Yes, I totally agree. And it's the main thing, the one thing it's, it's really having that focus and prioritization.
[00:29:53] So coming back to kind of the beginning into that hospitality and like [00:30:00] culture connection, can you think back to a time where, whether in a hotel or a home or a business where that you have your best experience of hospitality or feeling comfortable, and how did that delivery of that service or that comfort change your, your arc and, and kind of how you operate every day.
[00:30:28] Mikey Dobin: So, I mean, to answer your question quickly, but then give a different example. I hope that's okay. So there's no rules here. The best service I've ever gotten in hospitality.
[00:30:46] And we're talking in a hotel, not at a friend's house. No,
[00:30:49] Dan Ryan: it could be a hotel. It could be a business. It could be a friend's house. It could be anywhere,
[00:30:56] Mikey Dobin: you know, the best I've ever gotten in [00:31:00] hospitality is always when I stay at a friend's house, just happy to see them, their family happy to see their lives, the good, the bad, everything in the house.
[00:31:10] I it's, it's the best. I don't care if I stay on a couch and I'm going to be woken up at five in the morning by a two year old, who's like patting me on the head and wanting to play a game. And their parents are like, oh my God, Mike, he's so glad you're here. We're sleeping in. Um, I, I love that. I can't get enough of that.
[00:31:27] It's just, it's, that's really fun for me. But in terms of hospitality in a hotel, I think it was in, um, 1999. I went to the opening of the. W in San Francisco, 98, 99, something like that. And I remember that one of the things that they spoke about there was we're going to bring a nice experience in terms of like a luxury property, but the people working here are going to be [00:32:00] nice.
[00:32:01] And I think that we had a big run-up in the nineties for some of these really cool places in New York and San Francisco where you couldn't even get into the club unless you were staying in the hotel. Or at least I couldn't, maybe there were really cool people that could, but maybe I tell myself no one could, uh, except they're saying it's the hotel, but they were so cool.
[00:32:23] But part of the cache was they treated you like, shit, I can, I curse. You can do whatever you want. Okay. So they treated you so badly that you were so rude, they made you feel like you were insignificant. And it was like the worst, the people who work there, it was almost like they were trained. The worse you treat people, the cooler people will think it is to be here.
[00:32:48] And I remember that w where they said, listen, we're going to have a really cool spot, but we're actually going to treat you well also, and I just remember thinking, this is so much more my jam than any of those [00:33:00] places where they just treat like crap. And, um, and I've always held that. I love that when I had someone come over to my house, I mean, the first thing I say is my house is your house.
[00:33:13] You break something, you break something, don't worry about it. If you mess something up, don't worry about it. Um, and definitely anything you want in the fridge, like. And, um, I, I really feel that way. I don't want people to be careful. I want people walking on eggshells, friends come over and I always say, do not bring us a bottle of wine.
[00:33:33] Do not bring anything. If you really feel the need that you have to bring something, then I'm going to give you the name of the charity. And you can just donate 10 bucks to that charity. And let's all feel great, but you don't have to bring anything, just bring you like we're inviting you because we want you here.
[00:33:49] We're not bringing you here because we want to gift. Yeah. I,
[00:33:53] Dan Ryan: I can attest to that because I stand at your refrigerator often looking in there and trying to choose what [00:34:00] non gluten-free things there are in the fridge that I can eat. Yeah.
[00:34:04] Mikey Dobin: There are very few non gluten-free things I'll have to admit, but it's also
[00:34:09] Dan Ryan: like, I don't know.
[00:34:10] I go back to like, to how, you know, being at someone like Michael Buttner's house, right. Who founded HBA and the thing that he would do that I love. And I still have is have a huge galvanized tub full of ice with beer, wine, soft drinks was just there. So if he
[00:34:30] Mikey Dobin: knew people were coming or not, or
[00:34:31] Dan Ryan: he get that freaking big clunky thing out, make us go get ice, fill it up, and then just cram it full of things.
[00:34:40] And in a way to be like, you know, my house is your house. Be comfortable and take whatever you like. And I have a galvanized tub out here.
[00:34:49] Mikey Dobin: I think you do too. Yes, I do. So he's a really good example of someone who can make anyone feel like home away from home. I mean, you and I would bring so [00:35:00] many people to that house, right?
[00:35:03] I mean, we would meet people at traffic lights, be like, Hey, we're headed to the beach. I don't know what you guys are up to. Do you want to come and we'd show up and Michael would just introduce himself to them and he'd look them in the eyes in only a way he could. Making them feel like they were the only person important in the world and say, I am so glad that you are here.
[00:35:28] I'm really grateful you're here. And I, I really am just feel lucky and I hope you have a really great time here. And everyone, he said it to was like, God, this, I just, I just want to hug this guy. He's amazing. So he had a real way of making people feel at home and he has a real way of making people feel at home.
[00:35:49] I mean, every time I go there, I, I just feel like I want to stay and be protected forever. Yes.
[00:35:56] Dan Ryan: I, I completely it's that bear love he has, you know, [00:36:00] it's just it's you just feel it. And it's, again, it's that connection and it's the, it's the connection of okay. The hug, but it's also that, that space between, right.
[00:36:08] There's like, there's a palpable thing that exists in the space between people. Right. And he just. Has this force that is just overwhelming there. And there's so many people in our industry that have that. And again, I think that's really what makes our industry so special because we're so, we're so interested in making sure that that space between is this true and welcoming as possible.
[00:36:40] Mikey Dobin: Yeah. I mean, I, I guess that's what Dave Matthews was writing about when he, when he came up with that song, is it called the space between sing it towards the end of the podcast that you can decide whether you delete it out or not. Oh, great. Awesome.
[00:36:56] Dan Ryan: Okay. So cool. Now, so [00:37:00] just kind of thinking about like with our industry and where we are at all, like as insane as the past year and a half has been, um, A recession and depression, like nothing that we've ever seen.
[00:37:12] Things were starting to come back to normal in many places. Like you're like what pandemic, it just doesn't exist. Uh, thinking about like where we are today as we come out of this, like, what's keeping you up at night right now.
[00:37:28] Mikey Dobin: crazy. I mean, 20 something years in this business and things have always kept me up. I mean, you know, it as my best friend, uh, and confidant, I mean, you've heard it all. There's been so much that's kept me up. Um, I would say that the last few months is the first time in a really long time.
[00:37:53] I do not have much keeping me up. Um, maybe. [00:38:00] Maybe, because at the beginning of this pandemic, none of us knew what was going to happen. Right. We all, we all have our own story from March, April, may, June. And it went from confusion, disbelief, terror. Um, I mean, I literally, I saw someone in the airport with like a white hazmat suit thing on like the whole white suit.
[00:38:28] And I remember thinking, oh my gosh, like, we are really in like a science fiction movie. Um, I would say it was, it was really amazing. Like the, the stages we all went through. Um, and now I would say that we're in, um, rebellion stage, which is, you know, we're just like I'm done with it. And I mean, go out to Miami, go to any club.
[00:38:54] I mean, if the. If they fit 150 people in a club, [00:39:00] there's at least 300 in it. I mean, it is like just, it's just bonkers. And, um, in terms of keeping me up at night,
[00:39:14] I guess it doesn't have to do with our industry. I mean, and, and this, this, if for the first time I don't have something keeping me up about the business as much as I have something, keeping me up about just the world that we we've seen a bigger and bigger divide being created, um,
[00:39:37] economically between people in the world, not just the country. And I think that what happened in the pandemic to me made the divide. Even more pronounced [00:40:00] and I'm not just talking monetarily, but if, if you had a position in a company, whether it was, uh, something as a professional, within a business where, um, you're part of operations or finance or sales or project management, many, many companies, you could go remote.
[00:40:24] And during that April may, and June time, you could feel safe because you were remote. You might have to go to the supermarket or you could order it, but, but, but you didn't have to go into an office, but then there's a huge group that their job is hands-on had to go into the office. And so it felt like it was the first time where it wasn't just, uh, an, an economic difference.
[00:40:52] That was very visible coming into society. But that there was a difference in [00:41:00] your ability to keep yourself in a safe environment versus you having to go into an environment that maybe others, you didn't feel as safe, but you had to do it because that's where your, your job was or what your job required you to do.
[00:41:16] And so that may be what's keeping, that may be the most, uh, prominent that's keeping me up at night because I don't know how that changes. And after it was so prominent in this pandemic, um, I don't know what shifts it creates, uh, in our society going forward. But I think there are going to be more dramatic than they have been over the past years.
[00:41:41] Dan Ryan: That's interesting. So like, obviously like the economic divide gap, I get it, but it was really prevalent in that call it like a safety divide or something like that. Or it's not even comforted. It's it's just, it's like a survival thing. Like there were most, so, so many people could just, like you said, [00:42:00] work remote work from home, but other people had to go into the belly and the beat of the beast and the beast was, it was really just like the unknown.
[00:42:07] Like no one knew how this thing was transmitted, what was going on, but they had to go to work.
[00:42:13] Mikey Dobin: They had to go to work. So, I mean, first responders, I think we all have like, beyond respect for, I mean, there were times in April, may and June where a huge percentage of this country, um, maybe the world, but I know best in our country, at least from my experience.
[00:42:33] Cause that's, you know, the news I've watched, the people I know, um, were, were scared to leave the house. Right. You would, you would hear or see on YouTube. There were people devising ways that, uh, UN uh, An Uber eats driver could leave something in a bucket at the bottom of an apartment, and somebody would take a rope to bring it up because they didn't even want to walk downstairs in the apartment building.[00:43:00]
[00:43:00] And then you had first responders that in this time of such fear were saying, I'm suiting up and I'm going right into it. Right? Like working in a hospital, working in a doctor's office, being a police officer, a firefighter, going into all of these places. But you also had so many people who worked in factories, right.
[00:43:26] Or worked in distribution centers, all going to work and were supermarkets. And I remember going to the supermarket, I I'd never gotten into the online ordering for my groceries, which I know it sounds odd. Cause I'm, I do a lot of things that use technology, but. I'm weird like that. I like to look at the aisles.
[00:43:45] I like to talk to people in the aisles. I like to, um, I'd like to see what my, you know, fruits and vegetables are. I don't know, that's my thing, but I remember going to the supermarket and I would always thank the people who were working behind the register [00:44:00] because they had to come in that job, can't be done remotely.
[00:44:04] And they were there and they were doing it and they were doing it with a smile, but they had to be as scared as so many of us. And, you know, I'd go to the supermarket and be like, oh my gosh, that 45 minutes. And then I'd go home and I'd shower and I'd wash my fruit and Palmolive. Right. Remember April of the pandemic.
[00:44:21] And there were people who had, were working eight hours a day in there. And it was, you know, probably a thankless job in a lot of ways. But you could see that divide that happened because there were people who said, not only do I work remote, but I want things delivered. And I have no judgment on that.
[00:44:40] Great. Like if you can do that, it's awesome. But putting yourself in the shoes of someone who could not do that and who was working in those environments, um, it must've been a very odd feeling.
[00:44:55] Dan Ryan: And then, so going back to that March, April, may, where it was like super [00:45:00] unknown and dark and like fast forwarding to where you are now. Like if you like shortening that transition from who knows what's, which way is up to where you are now, like, is there any advice or experience share that you can think that might help when someone's not in that particular thing, but in a place like that to getting out to the light at the end of the tunnel, like, is there, is there any feelings or advice that you, that you maybe have told that you feel really sure about that you could share with others?
[00:45:35] Mikey Dobin: About a business or about life or you name it?
[00:45:47] I think I have more faith in humankind's ability to get through anything. And[00:46:00]
[00:46:01] no matter what you believe in politically, if you just look at humans in general, we are very resilient people and we were going to get through this no matter what. Yes, there was uncertainty. Yes, there was time uncertainty, but. I think that I shed my fear in July and I had a few months with a lot of excessive fear.
[00:46:39] I'm not saying I never have fear anymore. There was always fear in life. But, um, I would say that
[00:46:50] having a little bit more faith in ourselves and our ability to get through things and maybe not [00:47:00] watching the news anymore because watching the news was the worst thing I did. And when I stopped in July, it was like, everything changed. You could watch one channel and, you know, there was, there was, there was no pandemic.
[00:47:17] You could watch another channel. And you were going to die tomorrow, like maybe, maybe tomorrow night instead of tomorrow morning, but it would be tomorrow. And there was, there was nothing in the middle and it was just, it just so bizarre to me. And so I think stopping, watching the news and actually just talking to other people and feeling connected, uh, was, was what brought me back to what brought me back to center.
[00:47:47] What brought me back to base. And I think that brought a lot of people back to base and, you know, introvert extrovert doesn't matter. People get happiness from other people being around them, [00:48:00] right? Obviously only you can make yourself happy, but other people could certainly accentuate your happiness and you can certainly enjoy just being around others.
[00:48:09] And so I think the pandemic brought so much on happiness because we got secluded from so many people. And depression's at an all time high and people just got way too secluded. And if I could go back and give myself advice in March of the pandemic, it would be just do your best to just live your life.
[00:48:38] Be respectful of everybody, but live your life, go see people. And I didn't start to do that until July. And so for months, I had people which are all, like I said, I'm a big extrovert. So taking away something that gives me life force is tough, but just having faith that it's just going to be okay. And if it isn't okay, [00:49:00] it will be at one point.
[00:49:02] I
[00:49:02] Dan Ryan: think that that is, again, it ties back to that first thing you said, or the human connection. And I know I've been in a, had depression before and, uh, seeing a therapist and they're saying, listen, this, you don't want to see anyone. You don't want to get out of bed. You're in this place. But I'm going to tell you something that makes no sense to you right now, but you just have to force yourself to do it.
[00:49:22] Go see people, get out there and connect with people. And somehow like in that resiliency of humanity, having that connection and just even sometimes forcing it, forcing the communication, forcing the call, forcing whatever, it just, it connects it, it reconnects us all to everything and stabilizes and creates opportunity.
[00:49:45] So I love that now. So now that we've kind of come to where we are and like, okay, we have fear, but really nothing on the business front is keeping you up tremendously right now. Like then we start [00:50:00] looking to the future. What's exciting. You most about the future? Um, in our business, in hotels, in life, what excites you most about the future right now?
[00:50:15] Mikey Dobin: Humans are meant to stay still as much as we've all stayed still. I don't know if we're meant to stay with any one or group of people as much as we did. Right. So many of our families, I love my family, but it's also good to absence makes the heart grow fonder a little bit. You know, it's good to get out.
[00:50:37] Good to see. But I think that people felt so dark for so long and now it's like flooding with light and the next five or seven years are just going to be so awesome. They're going to be so fun. They're going to be so good. Um, I, uh, I told my team, this is [00:51:00] the year of hugs even started signing things to my team, just on emails, like hashtag YOH
[00:51:07] it is a year of hugs. We're not going to get enough hugs. It's going to be unbelievable and people will, and it makes you take another six months may take another 12 months. People will get back to licking door knobs. Again, it doesn't matter. Like it's, you know, we're all doing it. Step-by-step we all remember maybe some of you don't.
[00:51:26] But I do the first time, a few weeks ago, I went into a supermarket and I didn't have a mask on and half the time people didn't have a mask half the people did cause it in Florida, you know, wear masks in supermarkets anymore. If you don't want. And I remember feeling like, am I doing something wrong? I don't want few people to feel upset.
[00:51:45] It's a little interesting. And then I'd see someone and they'd see me. And we'd kind of nod to each other. They're like, no mask, not bad, not bad. Like felt so good. And you just can't wait to be with people, but this is a year of hugs [00:52:00] and the year of hugs is going to last for five years.
[00:52:04] Dan Ryan: I love the year of hugs
[00:52:05] and now what I'm seeing to you, I am asking him, can I hug you? And almost everyone is like, absolutely. A couple of people. I just want everyone to feel comfortable, but I love that year of hugs. Y oh, hashtag
[00:52:16] Mikey Dobin: Y O H. Yeah. I, um, I seen a really good friend in DC, um, and, uh, tomorrow night and I just said full disclaimer, I give much bigger hugs than I used to.
[00:52:31] And I really feel that way. I need you to give him a heads up, but yeah, like a bear on a
[00:52:37] Dan Ryan: honeypot. Yeah.
[00:52:43] Awesome. Well, we've learned so much from you now, like shifting gears to like, learning more about who you are, um, like what, what lights you up outside of work? What's your most favorite thing to do outside? [00:53:00]
[00:53:00] Mikey Dobin: I mean, number one, favorite thing to do outside of work, anything with my kids.
[00:53:04] Dan Ryan: Yeah. What's your favorite thing to do with them?
[00:53:10] Mikey Dobin: I mean, I have a huge amount of things I'd love to do with them. I mean, I can list some of them. Uh, some of them are ridiculous. I used to love bringing them to the mall, which I'm not like a big mall person, but I would play this game. Like, can you like follow me? And I'd walk over. And then I'd point like up and all four of them would point up and I just hold it for like 10 seconds.
[00:53:38] And people would gather around us looking up like wondering what we were doing and then like we've walked somewhere else. So I love doing things like that. That just kind of confuse everybody around us. Always really fun. Um, love teaching my kids how to do prank calls and, uh, W you, those are great. You have to figure out how to do it, to keep your number on listed, uh, [00:54:00] because otherwise people know it's you, but I love doing prank calls with my kids.
[00:54:04] Uh, I love going to the beach with them. It's great. I love seeing them play outside. Um, anything where they laugh. I mean, when we do dinner at night and one of them starts joking around and the other chefs joking around, they all have their own personalities. It's it's the best.
[00:54:23] Dan Ryan: Love it. Love it.
[00:54:25] Mikey Dobin: Um, three things you're grateful for, you know, every night when I talk about in a bed, what are the three things you're grateful for today?
[00:54:34] Dan Ryan: Okay, good. Well, I love that. Like the pointing up in the air, it's like a total freaking it's like a, it's like, uh, you're acting out a dad joke. It's like a physical dad joke.
[00:54:47] Mikey Dobin: Yeah. It might be a love it. So that's one thing I love doing outside. Um, the other is just being with friends, being with friends.
[00:54:58] It's the best. I mean, [00:55:00] I don't, you know, whether we're hiking or talking, just having fun, kidding around. Um, anything with friends is really just the best.
[00:55:12] Dan Ryan: Um, so now I always say like, what I do is inconsequential what I do or why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys. So if you were, so this is my journey.
[00:55:21] Shortner question. You're going up to your 25 year old self. What are you, what would you ask your younger self?
[00:55:32] Mikey Dobin: What would I ask? Or what advice would I give? Well,
[00:55:35] Dan Ryan: I, that would be the second part, but like Nick, you, as you are right now, you go up to your younger self. What would you ask yourself?
[00:55:49] Mikey Dobin: Huh that's I didn't see that one coming. Um, what would I ask myself? I would probably ask myself, Hey, what are you doing [00:56:00] tonight? Because whatever it is, I want to go with you. Cause I think it would be freaking awesome. I think that actually that's definitely what I would ask myself. I love
[00:56:09] Dan Ryan: it. Great. So your party with your younger self.
[00:56:12] Okay. So now switching it, your 25 year old self comes up to you right now. What do you ask your 46 year old self?
[00:56:23] Mikey Dobin: Um, probably a few things, but I would say the number one thing I would ask is how did you get past the emotional baggage and fears that. You carried with you that you really needed to get rid of to become the happier person that you are now. Yeah. I wonder if that's the [00:57:00] same thing we would all ask ourselves, by the way.
[00:57:03] Dan Ryan: Uh, I've been asking that of a bunch of different people and no, it's all very different than all over the place. Um, but I will agree with you and that I forever, I think that for every person, I think obviously there's, there's structural and environmental things, but really, I think the thing that holds all of us back the most really is between our, between our ears and in our heart.
[00:57:29] And, uh, basically I think that we are. Our biggest obstacles. So the more that we can look at and pull at and understand how we can remove ourselves as obstacles and how we can have compassion, I think is for ourselves and everyone, but really for ourselves is
[00:57:48] Mikey Dobin: pretty profound. Yeah. I mean, it's, if the voice in your head was a real person, how intolerable would they be?
[00:57:57] Like, I would never room with that person [00:58:00] yet. We're stuck with them, but it's like half the time they're telling you. You're great. Half the time they're, you're telling, they're telling you, you're a loser. You're like, who are you stop saying this stuff, but it's you, you know, it's our voice in our head. But if our voice in our head was a person, man, we would totally kick them out of our lives.
[00:58:19] Dan Ryan: I would also say that, you know, we have multiple voices in our heads. There's that intellect that's like yelling at us. Right. Do this stay, that don't color within the lines, then there's that emotional child that's there that just wants to go and have fun. And then there's like, who do we really aspire and want to be?
[00:58:37] And who are we naturally wired to be in the more that we can be able to split those warring factions out and listen to them all, not ignore them because they all have something valid to say. I think, uh, the smoother our journey and the more enjoyable and more present and mindful our attorney will be
[00:58:58] awesome. Well, Hey, where [00:59:00] can people find you?
[00:59:03] Mikey Dobin: Um, you mean like my email or something? Email mdobin@valley forge.com
[00:59:09] Dan Ryan: mdobin@valleyforge.com. Your company website is www.valleyforge.com. They can find you on LinkedIn at Mikey Dobin
[00:59:18] Mikey Dobin: and yes, but full disclaimer. I, I don't do social media. So. Don't. I mean, you can find me on LinkedIn, but it may not be, you may not get a response.
[00:59:29] It's like once every six months I go and go through all that.
[00:59:33] Dan Ryan: Great. So email you. Um, awesome. So thank you. If anyone wants to learn more, please check it out. Mikey valley force.com and uh, that's it. Everyone. I hope you learned something today, laugh today, or just have a great time. So thank you all very much and we'll check you next time.
[00:59:54] Mikey Dobin: Thank you everybody.
[00:59:55] [01:00:00]