Defining Hospitality

[00:00:00]
Dan Ryan: Today's guest is an internationally acclaimed designer. She is a believer in the tenants of integrative medicine. She has an eye for innovative and green designs. She's a pioneer of designing for wellness. She's Irish, born New York, based a designer for everything.
Ladies and gentlemen, the founder of CLO to design clothes. Welcome quota. Oh,
Clodagh: thank you, John. It's such fun to be with you. It's
Dan Ryan: always fun to be with you. And I, I think it was in December when we first saw each other for a really long [00:01:00] time and it was like a, I believe a minutes long hug and embrace and
Clodagh: it just.
It could have been five minutes. It
Dan Ryan: could have been, but I, I just found it. Um, I found that hug and embrace just like many of my times that you just very centering and calming. And I think like when I, when I look back at our, our relationship over the years, and for you being a pioneer in this kind of in all at levels of design, but specifically on the wellness side, which I think I really want to talk with you about, there's just this whole idea of centering and calm first, then everything else comes second.
Um, is that a fair assessment on my part? Very fair assessment. So my question for you on that, because there's the centering calm that I see with you, but then there's also just this expansive body of work and history and Unbound [00:02:00] energy with you as well. How do you balance the two? Because it's so incredible to me.
Clodagh: Well, I, I think it's, um, that I believe there's no savings that come for energy. Just let, just let it, I call myself to flow through system, pick up the ideas, they images, whatever it is, and just let it out and let it flow. I think that, you know what self editing can come later, but I think any kind of, um, I remember the Dalai Lama said, uh, uh, I've approach, cooking and love with reckless abandon.
Well, I approach cooking love and design with reckless abandon.
Dan Ryan: I love that and I don't create it myself. I love the idea of not pre editing. That's a really powerful idea. You just shared that there's no savings account for [00:03:00] energy. Because again, to me, it's, there's such an incredible balance that you've achieved with just centering calm and then Unbound energy.
And I guess it's like, why save the energy now? Because we have so much to do and we have so many to impact and inspire.
Clodagh: Yes. You don't know if you're going to be around later anyway, so
help people to enjoy their lives.
Dan Ryan: Uh, true. Um, so I'm very curious also just about you, you are, I think my only friend that has one name, so. And everyone refers you as one name. And I also came up with a lovely nickname for you as you are my dog. I love you. You make me so happy. And I love that. Um, you know, you're your dog, you are my dog.
Um, but as far [00:04:00] as your journey and, and, and kind of embrace of design with this Unbound energy, like how did you begin your design journey from way back in the old country?
Clodagh: Well, I began my design, uh, journey. Um, I was brought up by very uptight, older parents shoved off the church to boarding school.
Protestant Irish are very uptight and both of them with very long names because they were fairly for what we call in Ireland. Well-bred so everything was uptight. And my father had decreed that I would be, um, professorship and, uh, plastics and mathematics cause his brother had many professorships. So I split professor fast sex and mathematics and all that deals signed up for the other children.
But just before I got [00:05:00] my, my, uh, pre-intermediate my intermediate exam, which is the pre of leaving certificate. Um, I got, I got six honors, so I was allowed to go into a university in, at that early age, my father was overjoyed, but then I fell off a horse, broke my back. So I bought, but broke my three branch of bread, not too badly, but badly and not so as I was on my back for about eight months and, um, I was lying there in bed because I could not sit up, not allowed to sit up.
I couldn't move them around very much. And I was reading a lot and designing books that could be read on the ceiling could be projection red on the ceiling. But that Monday, the Irish times came in with my mother and I was looking at the ads and it said, why not be a dress designer? One of the ads said, I thought that's a great idea.
That would be addressed designer. [00:06:00] So as soon as I could walk, I announced to my parents that I was going to be addressed as non-resident. I was not going to be a professor of classics and mathematics. Uh, I was going to go to a design school for a few weeks and start my own business.
Dan Ryan: Um, now I have a question back.
I went back to your, your father's decree. How old were you when he made that.
Clodagh: Oh, wait. We were practically from the age of the week would actually listen. I think the decree was made the road was the road was laid out for us. So anyway, I'm lying there on my back tonight. And I looked at this and I think, well, why not be a fashion designer?
That could be interesting. So as soon as I could walk, I went to my parents and I said, I've decided to be a fashion designer, not going to, and I'm not going to Trinity college, Dublin. I'm going to be a fashion designer. And my father looked at me in total horror and says, none of our family [00:07:00] has ever gone into trade, which means buying and stuff.
And more or less, you will not darken the doors of this house. So I got kicked out by my father. My mother cooked me aside and she said, I'm going to give you some money. Follow your heart. So she gave me 400 pounds with this. I, I, I paid a few weeks wrench and some days home I went to was pattern cutting school.
And when I was 17, I opened my own business with the courage of total eight minutes. And my names are so long and they've read the miles with tantra majors exam. Are you ready for this Claudette? Nula made the ciliary FIPSE. I sat there.
Dan Ryan: Wait, wait, you have to say
Clodagh: it again. And Nula maze distillery. FIPSE was my full name.[00:08:00]
Wow. They read it out with the, the, in the examination hall. I think I went bright purple and nearly went on the desk. And at that moment I decided I'd only use the name flowed on deficit. One name was enough, so I opened my fashion business floater.
Dan Ryan: And then how old were you when you open your fashion business?
17. Wow. So really just again, Unbound energy and just going and paving this way.
Clodagh: Yeah. And obviously very scary and actually very funny because I had no idea money was not even talked about in our house. It was like sex. It was not discussed all tofu subjects. So I opened a bank account because I was told I'd have to.
And I'm, I'm like three months into my business. And Mr. Mooney called me my bank manager and said, uh, I'd like [00:09:00] to see your book. So I pick up the books, I'm reading and bring them down to his office. I put some on his desk and I say, why do you want to see what I'm reading?
What's so funny. What was his response? I laughed, laughed and laughed, and I didn't know why he was laughing, but he explained, and I discovered what books mean and bookkeeping.
Dan Ryan: So, yes. So yeah. So then you were getting into, uh, the first of your family getting into, into trade, right? You were darkening, right. As your father said, darkening, the doors, your
Clodagh: family. Exactly. So anyway, I went. [00:10:00]
Dan Ryan: I'll keep
Clodagh: going. I just gotta say that, uh, what happened was, um, the Irish cancer society was giving a fashion show at the end of that first year, the hibernate and hotel.
And they asked me if I would give a passion show for them because a few of the members had bought my clothes.
So I got picked up by the Irish times, not that big blast of publicity. And then I was invited home again by the father.
Dan Ryan: Oh, so like a little bit, a little flash of celebrity lightened the doors
Clodagh: with the doors and then his favorite newspaper. What's more.
And then ask the APTC that, that show was a buyer from a. Henri Bendel and a buyer from Lord and Taylor, cause they Americans, American buyers used to come over and see what [00:11:00] they are as fashion groups were doing. And, um, they gave me an order and somehow I got to Chicago box and sent out to them. My bank manager led me money to, to make it because you have to, you have to have the money to actually pay the tailorism, the dressmakers and stuff like that and packages and shit.
So I did it and I was up and running.
Dan Ryan: Wow. And how big was that box that you shipped? How many pieces in that first order? I can't
Clodagh: remember exactly. I would probably think that where there were very nice black and white Irish Tweed suits, and I use a hunting pink color, which is Ray bride SCADA for the lining.
And I made several styles as a long coat, short coat pants and skirts and stuff like that. And, um, Lord and Taylor was giving a big Patrick's day thing and they invited me over. I mean, it all happened very fast.
Dan Ryan: And then was that your first time in New York city? Yes. [00:12:00] Wow. Oh, and then did you stay then or you had to go back and you're like, I need, I need to come back here.
No,
Clodagh: I, I, I, I went back home. I got married. I had three children, my fashion career expanded. I was Experfy exporting all over the world. BBC did a movie documentary about me called the fashion maker. My boys were great fun. My kids were quite fun. I was having a very good time. And then they Irish export for supported designers who are selling the states, like guy wasn't Australia and so on.
So it was, it was kind of easy, fairly easy to keep her flows. I mean, a big career, but so easy to get. And I made, I made gowns for a film stars and they, they, um, our president's wife for her tour of Africa, I did, or I made a collection for her to wear for her tour of Africa. [00:13:00] No list made fun. Wow. I know it was a stretch.
I mean, I I'm learning every bit of the way because I had a very sheltered childhood.
Dan Ryan: Right. So it's interesting, you know, I know you've used the door metaphor a handful of times. And I remember from one of the first times I spoke with, I met you or I don't know where we were, maybe we were in Shanghai or something.
And, um, I was talking about this poster that we had because my last name being. And just my parent, my dad would always say, oh, you're Irish, you're Irish. And, um, but we always had this poster in our kitchen that I'd see coming down the stairs and it was doors of Dublin. Right? All these multi-colored doors.
Um, a lot of people remember that or have an idea, maybe I'll put a picture of it up there. And I remember talking about that with you. And then you shared like a really fantastically, just incredible story that made this poster really, even that much more significant [00:14:00] to me. And I think it also, um,
you know, I think it brought us closer together.
Clodagh: Yeah. Fantastic. Is my son standing in my doorway. And I have one of the original ones. My little boy, he came, came, he knew the photographer was coming and he went to Oxon. He went down the steps and I said, take my photograph. So he is the only precedent poster.
And my name of course is on the
Dan Ryan: door. Yeah. I imagine a poster of, I don't know, there's probably 24 or 40, 28 or 40 doors. And they're all multi-colored doors and it's called the doors of Dublin. And the only one where you can see was with a person and it was your son in the background. And like, I grew up with that imprinted in my head, which is just so wild.
And then I think thinking about door, you know, doors are always a great transition. And then, so how did you go because you, you, throughout your career of design, so [00:15:00] many things from, from hospitality to fashion, to, um, wellness, just everything you're not limited or bound by anything. And if you think about going from fashion, how did you go from fashion to your next.
Or stop on the design journey?
Clodagh: Well, what happened was I was staying very well in fashions fact, high design, the girl guides, Jubilee, scarf, and presented it to the princess. Margaret at Buckingham palace. I have a great curtsy. You should see it.
And my boys for the rest of my life, wasn't going so well. And, um, I took a major step. I change husbands, concretes and careers,
Dan Ryan: the trifecta. Wow. And then was that straight to New York? Where did you go? No,
Clodagh: I, [00:16:00] I actually met him in Spain and we live between New York and Spain, and then we moved to Spain. And I was finishing my fashion career.
I've had to, my last fashion show was particularly, I don't know, say all black, the bride. Now my closet is 50 shades of black, something was happening. But, um, when I went to Spain, I didn't speak Spanish and I'd been managing, uh, quite, you know, the, the waivers and measures for sewing people and so on. We'd be exporting all over the world and it was like hitting a wall.
What am I going to do now? And, uh, we bought a townhouse in an old square and it was practically, it was falling apart in many ways and this beautiful little square. [00:17:00] And, um, Danielle said to me, her again, can you help me with this? I said, sure, I'll take this on. So I took on this old house and the architect and the engineer on the plumber and the whole thing.
And, um, there was a retail spot on with, on the ground floor and the basement. And when the demolition happens and I'm arguing with the architect and arguing with the engineer and directing everybody and a Ray of light came in the window and hit the dust. So it was like, it was just such a strong what Ray of light.
She hit me on the shoulder. As I hit me on the shoulder, I realized as I was doing what I wanted to do. So when Daniella client foam came home in real estate development, I said, I'm going to take the downstairs office and I'm going to start a design business, just like. So I've always taught myself to hire people and are better than myself.[00:18:00]
So it's, it's the best thing you can do. And I found an architect who was a specialist in environmental design and she was on sabbatical from the universe tablet of Liverpool. And, um, I said, I want you to work with me cause I know nothing.
And, uh, so anyway, I, I, I made the little store and I put a logo on the, on the metal gauge by the little store. And I put, I put the science thing, sign saying designer, I'd no sooner hung up. Then there was a knock on the door and there is this beautiful looking Spanish guy. He said, are you, are you the English designer?
Oh, I said, I'm sorry. I know I'm Irish. And he said, well, close enough. We did design my English pub for me.
I got my first job.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Oh, I love it. And I love how you just, you just put designer, you [00:19:00] weren't limited by a prefix or suffix. Right. You just said I'm a designer.
Clodagh: I don't like to be boxed.
Dan Ryan: And then, okay. So then that's probably, you're doing a pub as your first thing. So then if you think about hospitality like that from your experience, or maybe in your sheltered childhood, you, you weren't going to the pub.
I don't know if you were allowed to the pub, but to me that is, um, that's like the ultimate feeling of warmth, right. And neighborhood and community is you go to the pub and the oldest sense. Um, and if we think about that, As your first experience. And then you're just so many experiences of projects from that point to where you are today.
Um, how do you define hospitality as a thread that might unify all of your projects from that point onward?
Clodagh: Well, I think we're all guests and are sure all the guests than our [00:20:00] honored guests in our own homes. I was born in OSCA wild country house, which was up the lake from Ashford castle on our member going there and the peacocks on Loma and the great door and actually going in and having afternoon tea and, and they, and the beauty of a hotel, you know, crying, trying to get parents explaining to me that you'll get everything done for you in a hotel.
And you're so welcome as an adult. So any form of hospitality is whether it's your own kitchen, narrow and bedroom, or whether it's, um, um, multi-family three tires we've just done with, I think 1,707 days apartments, but designing the entries so that, so there's, it's hospitable welcoming that it's, it allows ease of self.
If you walk in the door, it's giving you a hug. So that's what I feel about hotels. They should give you a hug. [00:21:00]
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Just like our hug after being reunited for so long. Yeah.
Clodagh: Are you coming over to give me another one? Totally
Dan Ryan: going to come over and give you a big, nice, long warm embrace. So I loved, I liked that idea of the warmth and the hug.
Um, if you think about, and then you said something else in there that was just this idea of ease of self. Okay. So. I consider you a pioneer. And again, I'm not an expert, I'm just a fan of kind of what we do and how we do it, but I consider you a pioneer of wellness design. So if you really think about that kind of ease of self and, and just not limiting energy and, and letting the energy flow to me, how did you make the trajectory transition or not even transition?
How did you bring in the whole idea of wellness [00:22:00] through the projects and through your designs?
Clodagh: Well, it starts at the beginning. My father used to breed dogs. We had horses. I knew that if I fed the dogs correctly, our, the horses, the horses, like jump higher and behave better, the dogs would be more glossy and behave better.
So I still, for instance, how food and exercise interacting with animals. So I know all of my learning comes from observation really, since I haven't had any formal training of any kind, except, when I left school, when I was my late 16, just, observing what makes people happy. It's as simple, as where it's designing a sofa, we have the flop tests, you stand in front of it and let yourself go. And you flop into it. The sofa gives you a hug The arm shirt gives you a hug. The kitchen is, organized like a lab, you know [00:23:00] exactly for your everything is I'm trying to design the irritations, I suppose, out of people's lives.
And a lot of people come in from travel and they're very irritated they've missed their train. The plane was late, they had a row with their spouse on the flight and what I want to do is get this atmosphere of balance, using all the elements, earth water, fire, wood metal, balancing the elements.
And, um, I, the senses informed emotions and sometimes it's very quickly. So observing what happens, a beautiful living wall can literally see coming. Somebody's coming into the door, the front of their face. And they looked at the living wall, living green wall, listen to the sound of water and you can see them giving a sigh of relief.
There's so many ways you can do it. And I used, [00:24:00] I used words a lot too, because being born in Oscar Wilde's country home, my brother gave me at the epigrams of Bosco wild from that it's actually quite little. So I learned a lot of them by heart, but the importance of words, even, even a quote on a wall just to, just to make people feel safe and that people are thinking they're not just, it's not just hair and makeup.
That goes deeper than that.
Dan Ryan: When I think of some of like the marquee projects from my mind that I've, that I remember just over the years and I, and I, as you were saying, just the, all the different elements I'm thinking of just big elements. Like there's what you do have these water elements, these big kind of rough hewn rocks and raw timber.
And you're really bringing it all together. In such a thoughtful way. And it does, for me, when I walk into some of these places, I almost feel like I'm in a, [00:25:00] like, um, like in Cuba, for instance, I remember being in there and I just felt like I was near a mossy stream going through a woods somewhere.
Clodagh: That's the kind, that's the kind of feeling we want.
We made a boardwalk so that people could walk over a boardwalk over a protected marsh and say hello to the Osprey, maybe an alligator or a two foot far before they went in and then you'll have the water feature. That's falling off into the marsh, just outside the front, the front door to the spa. You're not awfully sure where the sound is coming from, but it's there because the river is a little bit too far, a killer rivers, little bit too far away for you to hear it.
And then it stay welcome. When you come in, where I can lift functions way the placement of, um, the placement of things or comfort. And for, you know, friend has. We also work with Biogen mistress to work with us on the energy that the energy or [00:26:00] the interaction of energy and shapes. So that, that all comes into consideration when we were doing this.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, I think, um, one of the things I remember you speaking with me about, and I feel like in how we've painted the picture of that kind of mossy calming river through a wood. Um, I remember you saying a while ago, there's in most projects, not yours, but in many, um, buildings, maybe not even projects because many buildings there's a certain deadliness to the lobby or of the lobby.
Um, and I think it kind of ties into that the person who's harried getting off the flight or the flight was late, or they had a row with their spouse. And I think it kind of ties into what we were just talking about, but like with that more often than not, there is a certain deadliness to a lobby. What are your strategies toward to like flipping that on its head and destroying that deadliness
Clodagh: [00:27:00] we've managed French shoes.
Uh, of course the plant and the sound of water. We also use lenticular arch. So which, so as you it's, this are, that are, there's something actually a moving our, your mood changing color as you're walking by it. We have, um, I hate coming to a lobby when the bar is closed, I'm Irish after all. Um, but it has to close down to some time my plane was late, so we, what we do with our coffee, coffee, and grab and go, uh, and, and bars, we have sliding doors and light behind them.
So if it's closed, totally, the bar looks like a giant. If it's breakfast, just slide. The doors is open the blue park where the coffee is and everything like that. And if, and if it's wine time, you slide away the breakfast and the bar, that area is line with beautiful [00:28:00] Amber orange color, which is conducive for drinking and having fun.
So, but we get, get the dead bar, the bar by closing us and using the, using the closure as an art piece.
Dan Ryan: No, it's, it's good because I think we can find images of that and actually to bring it forward to a place that has always been special to me, just because I've spent so much time up in the Berkshires in Western Massachusetts, my sister got married at this place, used to be called the Cranwell, which was this whole I'm envisioning like an Oscar Wilde estate.
Right. That's where you were born. If that was in Ireland, you were born in that building, right?
Clodagh: Yeah. It was smaller. And it was an Oscar wildfire. This country house is fishing lodge, but it was, it had a lot of bedrooms. Victoria has lots of lands, piece of peacocks walking around on the lawn, looking smart.
Does that tend to do
Dan Ryan: so imagine this Victorian building [00:29:00] everyone that's kind of in Western Massachusetts, some industrialists built it hundreds of years ago or 150, 160 years ago. Um, It's very traditional. So then it gets transformed into this mirror of all right and close to you. You and your team are working on that.
How did you take that kind of more austere lobby experience and change it, like taking some of those, you know, not that it was deadly, it was just different. Like, what were some of the tools you used in that experience?
Clodagh: Kind of portly really, you know, like late chance, you know, adults who had been a school for some of the Kennedys.
I think, I think Robert Kennedy went there. Um, it's by injection comfort. We do a lot of work with lighting. We bring it away, we bring fire and if we can, um, and honoring the place in a sense. So in the main [00:30:00] dining room does a lot of loopy carvings on the ceiling. So we use that pattern, Mumba carpet, we reflected as we turned the, um, There's just one roommate turned into a tea room because afternoon tea is such a big thing in Ireland and England.
And there's an Inglenook. We turned into a sort of cuddling place. We're still working on that actually
Dan Ryan: project on a whole, or just refining the cuddling space, because I would like to cuddle up there
Clodagh: most of the project as a whole, but it opened just at the beginning of, of, uh, our, our little plate and going through. But, uh, we, we put, we put beautiful gathering places we put when we brought her into the barn, failing on the blue and the cranberry, the colors there painted the insides of the closets cranberry, and just made it very, it gave it a very much a sense of place, [00:31:00] sense of where you are, because I think the good hospitality, you don't you'll know where you are just by looking around at.
Dan Ryan: Um, one of our previous guests was Sarah Clemson from Hyatt who was involved in that project. And she was telling me just about the programming of Miraval in particular, like from the equine painting to, um, I forget the, this kind of water meditation. I forget what it was called, but have you ever done, um, equine painting or any of that equine therapy?
Clodagh: I have, I ha I have, I haven't, I had equine therapy as a child ahead of forces, one of brandish and break my back, but I'm insane by forces, you know, and there is something about their character and their velvet muscles, which is very encouraging, but we use, we use that. We use, we use painting some of the bathrooms in the, in the robes of a kind of Marilyn Monroe horse with hair [00:32:00] flowing everywhere.
And no, we picked all that up. Sarah is amazing. She is amazing to work with. Yeah, she's
Dan Ryan: pretty cool. She's a real force of nature, I think as well. I think that that as far as her energy and your energy, it's again, I get that feeling of it just being like Unbound and almost limitless.
Clodagh: You know what I mean?
Oh, she has definitely. They like that. I mean, she's uh, and so, so articulates on that analytic, cause it's a lot of what we do is analyze. I called a step back so you can step forward, you know, don't brush at headlong. No, no in charge. And just step back, get your cone of vision and breathe. The Hopi Indians.
Have a wonderful saying when you got up in the morning and you open the door, they say, take a breath of the new Dawn and make it part of you. So that's one of my rituals when I keyed her cold, it doesn't matter as to open my door and take a breath with the new Dawn. It's [00:33:00] 10 staff energy enhancing.
Dan Ryan: It really is.
And I think from a, a wellness, mindfulness, um, calming and centering perspective, the simplest thing that any of us can do is just remember to breathe and breathe well. And I can't tell you for me, how often I lose track of my breathing and I, and when I, if I'm feeling any kind of wave of anxiety or, um, stress or something like that, if I just remember, it's so crazy that we just are not, it's not such so easy to remember, but just take a couple deep breaths and recenter
Clodagh: yourself.
Exactly at the Dalai Lama says is it's not the car it's, who's driving the car, being our body.
Dan Ryan: Because it's going and right at, sometimes we just need to remember to, to kind of, I like the baseball terminology of just stepping out of the batter's box, um, and [00:34:00] stepping out of the batter's box. Right? So if you're up at bat, you gotta step out, you gotta step out and regroup.
And, um, it is amazing how just gentle reminders can remind us to just step out and breathe. But then also I find going into places that you've designed, it's almost like I walk in and then it's almost like I've entered a deep breath.
Clodagh: That's it? That's really what I'm trying to achieve. You know, that deep breath, ease of self, you can feel the tightness relaxing, you know, the, the portrait who was not naughty to or something like that.
Just forget about it. Just move on to you now.
And also getting giving what, what, uh, our hotel in the east, the east hotel, where you actually give people, um, a spa experience, a [00:35:00] self spa experience that they have the water circuit outside that they can use themselves. It's a huge gift. Eastside. Miami Brickell.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Oh my goodness. I was just there for a conference and it felt very calm in there.
And I didn't know you worked on that one.
Clodagh: The one on brick. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: We were there for the independent lodging Congress. Um, when was that? Like a month or two ago? Two months ago. Oh my gosh. You were with me there.
I felt so calm there. I actually, I felt so calm that I, when I went back the next day, I just felt like wearing flip-flops.
Clodagh: It's interesting because the beds are, these, the bedrooms are gray thumb. Wait, wait, wait. Cause sleepers, we had pride. We helped two people to sleep well. Yeah. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Well, what's, what's amazing about that.
One is, and I guess it's kind of like, um, oh, I forget the name of the [00:36:00] one you did on the next to the Highline. The, it has a name, the Caledonia, the Caledonia, right? So it's these massive structures because the east is this massive structure, 50, I don't know, 50 something stories, high of glass and steel, same with the Caledonia.
And then, but you walk inside and it's a completely. Non austere feeling. Yeah. And I think at, and again, if I go back it's that those dark rich woods and some kind of hammered metals and just like all these different textures of like you were saying, earth, wind, and earth wind, is it earth, wind and fire
and fire and water.
Clodagh: Yeah, of course the air, you know, we're devils on the air quality would try to get the best air quality. That's very important to science. Signage. Signage is very important. I go mad with signage because I'm a bit of an Arrowhead. Um, you know, when you, [00:37:00] when you're wayfinding, even, you know, I go mad in the bathrooms where they have bottles, you know, bottles for your hair, lotion, shampoo, and your.
Your spa soap and what have you, you can't meet it because somebody is so over-designed, they can con she'll say is in one word what it is. You know,
Dan Ryan: I often find that signage and wayfinding, um, is often very unsung because if it's done well, you don't notice it. You just wind up where you're supposed to be, but when it's done, when it's just not right or not, when it's even 95% of the way there, I think we all really notice it.
It's like, oh, what, what happened? And it creates that level of stress as well. Right? It's like if
Clodagh: you're meeting somebody or nice, it's very stressful. Yeah. It's um, I ended up, I use color very often as signage in the east hotel. I don't, if [00:38:00] you remember those two different colors, uh, slots that the elevator that Monticello sorta Aqua slot goes up to the.
Service apartments and sort of orangy slot takes you up to the hotel.
Dan Ryan: I don't remember the Aqua one because I was paying attention to the hotel, but I do remember the orange feel over there. So when you say you take signage very seriously, we need to take everything very seriously when you're designing.
But like, what are some of your, um, guiding principles with respect to signage?
Clodagh: Well, does anybody, even if they're near site kind of read it and if they can't, if they can't read it because they're so busy, they don't have good vision is to make something that indicates what is it, what it is you're going to,
I mean, real, real numbers that are being off the skated by some, some graphic designer that thinks the type is lovely, but [00:39:00] you can't even read them.
Dan Ryan: Especially as I get older and now I'm like, I'm in the process now of when I I'm starting to look at things close up and I need to take my glasses off to read them.
So I feel like it's all happening for
Clodagh: me right now. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it happens for others and also the use of outdoor space and hospitality. If there's any outdoor space is create outdoor meeting rooms, outdoor lounges, not, not go all landscape, but create places outside where people can enjoy themselves fireballs, um, a scented garden, for instance, the hailing garden, relaxing garden and edible garden.
No, it says the time has come for us to really understand nature and what it can bring to us.
Dan Ryan: I totally agree. And I'm seeing that. I saw a huge trend over the past few years of. The inside moving out. Right. So we're [00:40:00] taking all the creature comforts of inside and moving it outside for a second space. But now I'm seeing a lot of the outside coming back in all the things that kind of were in that laboratory of bringing the inside out.
Now, it's kind of, it's coming full circle back inside. And I think it's only, um, a creative it's only adding to our overall experiences. Yeah.
Clodagh: I I've always said we can wait, take the inside eyes and the outside then. And wait, wait, wait, if I can, I may not go in anywhere. I'm like Walter I'll go in anywhere.
Even if, even if I have an form, it, I like to work with the landscapers because I like to be able to say to them here, stand at this window. You're looking at what you see. No, in this kind of a cacophony of blast towers we're surrounded by and that's how you, how do you connect to nature?
Dan Ryan: It's a very difficult balance and that actually in C.
Okay. So that's talking about that whole idea of [00:41:00] wellness and how, and just in all these conversations I'm having in these podcasts, um, it seems to be percolating or popping, like popcorn more and more, which I think is only a good thing because I think we're, we're just all, a lot more aware of how wellness can make those austere environments.
Just more welcoming, more calming, more hospitable. When you think about all the trends that you've seen from fashion through to where you are now, um, what's exciting you most about where this is all going.
Clodagh: What's excited me most about where it's all going is that we're acknowledging our bodies and our bodies need. We're not ignoring them. We're not dressed, dressed. I mean, when, when I was in fashion, people are wearing highly uncomfortable things because they've a great cause they look great. I think people are understanding the comfort can look wonderful [00:42:00] and landscape can give you great pleasure.
I mean, they let you know that kick of pleasure. You'll get, when you see the first daffodils coming out or bluebells, something like that. I think we're acknowledging the world. Like that's what's happening where we're not where we're acknowledging those were parts of the world. And I feel good. I think it's taking the virus in us that it sounds too to bring up that awareness.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, I agree. I mean, Justin being comfortable, everyone working from home, hopefully taking more walks just to get outside. Um, I think it's, I think that there are so many silver linings that are coming out of this and, uh, I, I totally agree.
Clodagh: Better conversations. I mean, we're doing, we're doing a job in Argentina where I'm trying to do a sculpture walk, but the thing you can actually jump through some of the sculptures or climb over them.
So you [00:43:00] can actually do have a fitness circle circuit, sorry. And, uh, but also enjoy the sculptures.
Dan Ryan: Um, put, I know you've said repeatedly that you've had no formal training, but you surround yourself with the best of people. Um, and there's also a certain vulnerability I picked up from you where you talk to your first Spanish client before doing that, um, pub where you're just, you said, like I know nothing, right?
Um,
I guess the question to me is, is despite the formal training and seeing your body of work right. You've created this very close to a thing. And if you were to go back over your career and design journey, who do you think was the biggest kind of influence or mentor on how you became this one, one [00:44:00] word dervish.
Clodagh: I think that actually, um, I'm a sponge. I checked from everybody. I traveled incessantly, even though the I've been in over a hundred countries, 120 countries, not a big battle with my husband. He has done 130 feet. I think. I think, I think the learning comes from observation
and I'm not. Um, I think by not having had a formal education, I can think more freely, you know, learning can, can, um, confined or it's like, No, you can't really do that. My motto is do what you can't do. Make sure it stays up. The water runs the right direction.
I mean, I've met wonderful people, really wonderful [00:45:00] people, wonderful architects, wonderful architects. I haven't met like the silent power of shadow onto the wit and wisdom of Jacqueline or Larson the waver. No, that's really, really muscular buildings. So Tom Kundig architects, we're working with where there's a group, you know, I learned from them just listening to,
Dan Ryan: I'm wondering if, um, you know, looking at the evolution.
Of your aesthetic and, and design and the projects that you're putting forth and harnessing all of the natural elements to create this peace and comfort and welcoming. If the decree that your dad made when you were so little about studying the classics of mathematics, I'm wondering if you've maybe took the classics of human need and studied the mathematics of the physics of balance, and maybe you found your own way to [00:46:00] that center rather than following his decree.
Exactly.
Clodagh: I think, I think it could be right. And also great thinkers inspired me, Edward, I don't know if you know, Edward DeBono, lateral thinking wonderful book, but he was a friend of mine and I had went to Samba is thinking classes. He actually taught school in Canada on thanking and, and, and Dr. Richie Davidson has a clinic called the study of the.
Healthy mind. Um, he was, he was studying, um, the sick mind and he went to the Dalai Lama and the Dalai Lama was asking about himself and he said, well, I'm studying, I'm studying on healthy minds and see what I can do to make some, you know, make these people well. And the Dalai Lama. And he said, why don't you study the healthy mind and find out what makes them healthy and [00:47:00] then apply that knowledge.
So I suppose what I'm doing is a little bit the same. I'm I'm, I'm, uh, I'm looking for, I'm looking at people, but they fail well. That's what makes I, I tried to analyze what makes them feel well, why are they happy there?
Dan Ryan: You're trying to get us all to be silky dogs.
Clodagh: Happy dog.
Dan Ryan: Well fed, silky luxurious dogs. Um, when you think about and absorbing and, and learning from everyone that you interact with, I know you've mentioned the Dalai Lama a couple of times, but has there ever been a person that you've encountered that made you feel more at peace than others?
Clodagh: Well, I went to some, I went just on teaching by I left home in the little Mancos just died when I went to [00:48:00] some today teachings and, um, I think one understand simplicity so well,
you know, what and what matters. You know, he was talking about his parents were very poor and they couldn't afford for him much. And put his mother, brought him a cookie, was sitting in the garden, just nibbling it bit by bit to make it last longer. Or for, I haven't had a person like take a large bite of the cookie and he had a mindful eating session.
You know, I think the, I think it's mindfulness. It's people's approach to life who looks happy. And why, why are you happy? Are you happy?
Dan Ryan: Why am I happy? I'm happy because in many, many ways I get to do what I love and I get to have these kinds of constant conversations and I, I, it gets to, and it all [00:49:00] satisfies my curiosity about things.
So that's why I'm, that's why I'm happy. Do I, what I love to do that all the time. Yes. But it's really about finding that balance or maybe I just need to say fuck it and just do to satisfy my curiosity all the time. Um, but it's interesting you bring up, um, thick, not Tom. And I know I sent a set of his name incorrectly, but he has just passed away recently and then randomly, um, I've read his stuff over the years.
Um, but a few, I think, a night before he died, um, I don't know what maybe it was right. I, you know what it was right around Martin Luther king day, because there was something about, he was telling a story about hugging. And actually, if you go back to the beginning of our conversation, we were talking about our hug after seeing each other for so long.
And he, I believe he was with. The first time it was 1968. He was in [00:50:00] America, civil rights movement was happening. And I think he was with Coretta Scott King, Martin Luther king Jr. His wife. And she gave him a hug and he felt very uncomfortable because he just, that's not what a monk does. He doesn't hug other people, but he actually sat with that, um, uncomfortableness for a long time for months.
And, um, and he's like, well, why do I feel uncomfortable hugging? He's like, you know, I want to learn how to hug properly. So he did a lot of thinking and meditating on it. And, um, he came, I think he came back and met Coretta Scott King. Again, I might be getting the people or names or timing wrong, and he gave her a hug and it was a very long hug.
And he discussed that, um, a hug should be three breaths. A proper hug. I think the first you hug the pur you embrace the person you breathe out, um, and you envision [00:51:00] yourself dead hugging that person on the second breath. You envision the person you're hugging dead and you alive. And on the third hug, you envision both of you alive and vibrant hugging each other.
And it had to do with the life's impermanence. And really the person who you're touching, holding is just gone. You got, and then you're gone, but then you're there together. And I, that whole cycle, um, made the hug that much more enjoyable. Yeah. I actually
Clodagh: had re I had read last month because I think, I think one of the things also that the, the plate cause taught us is, is how transient.
Time to become like an accordion and that's just moves in and out and you can sometimes lose a day and wake up and your think, cause one day it's not actually, it's just another day. You're still, you're still, you're still traveling through, but the impermanence of life [00:52:00] is as I think been taught to us very, very strongly by COVID.
I mean, so many people have lost people.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I think about like with your love of travel and my love of travel, I think the times that I appreciate the most in travel is when there is that. I, I think you said like a warm blanket or a warm embrace that there's that moment of just like being in a place and just being grateful and appreciative for that moment.
And it's, again, it goes into like how I sometimes forget to breathe or we all forget to breathe. Um, It's all there for us all the time. We just have to remember that everything is impermanent and we just need to kind of create by life and friends and people, this kind of hum of gratitude and appreciation behind everything that we do.
Clodagh: Yeah. Cause it's, um, I know that, um, [00:53:00] sometimes I turned to my husband and I seen, I say to him, I feel perfectly happy at this moment. Can't tell you why. I just am. You know, when the, when then when those moments come, learning, learning to grasp them and also having the ability to play your inner video back when you are happy.
I mean, my, if you will open, I don't, I counted understand what's the brains three and a half. That's something like that. I kind of imagined how many inner videos I have from being a little girl to right now, you know, places I've been what I've done, what I shouldn't have done, but
Dan Ryan: we'll save that for the next podcast.
Clodagh: But, um, I just want to tell you, I'm perfectly happy at this minute.
Dan Ryan: I am too. If you can't tell from my grin and.
Clodagh: Yeah,
Dan Ryan: that's nice. But I feel like [00:54:00] there's so many times, and you, you know, you have this with all different kinds of people, but there's, there's been many, many times throughout you and I knowing each other where we just have that laugh.
It's like an unbridled laugh. Right. And it's, it's great. I don't know if you like tap that inner Irish string of mine or something.
Clodagh: I think so. I think so. And um, of course, uh, growing up in Ireland know I pawn as I go along. I don't know. I don't always say to do what I love about our studio. We all laugh a lot.
Yeah. What's a one member of my studio sends me that sends me a really, really awful joke, maybe twice a day sometimes. And I've got the quote wall and the studio, which is a little, little polite, but, but I collect funny, I collect funny jokes and I've acted in so many funny jokes. I've been an actress in a funny.
I want to hear a Spanish one. [00:55:00] Yes. Okay. I'm trying to learn Spanish. My husband, he said, I'm going to take that bathroom. I that's where my desk is going to be in union. You need to go out and find me a desk. It's my first time going out, finding a desk with two drawers, speaking, Spanish, trying to speak Spanish.
So I walk into this. There's a long like cheese and Maria. I walk into this big friendship place. And when I was, when I don't speak the language very well, I like I speak a little louder and I said to, excuse me. Okay. I don't want to mess condos.
Those of you listening. Cahone is our bowls and Cahone is our drawers. So the guy says to me day talking my back. He says, excuse me, excuse me. Would you just wait there while I go and look back and bring us some people. So about seven people come out and said, repertoire four for four. And I said, [00:56:00] Karen, I messed.
I found those go home. And at this moment I hear appeal of laughter. My husband had crept in behind me,
but we laughed about that for years. Oh
Dan Ryan: my God. That's amazing. And no laughing about it. I haven't actually heard that one. That's amazing. Oh my goodness. Close to. I love also throughout the conversation and throughout just knowing each other, you, you bring up the little girl clothes. A lot. Right. And I feel like you're very in touch with your, with your younger quota.
Right. And, uh, and I think that that's also where a lot of joy comes from. And that thinking about that, you know, the video, the map, the video memories that we have in our heads, if you, the quota of right now that I'm talking to you and we're just happy right now, you let's say you just went back in time and met little, little, little [00:57:00] quota just after your father may decreed to her that you're going to study mathematics and classics.
What advice do you close to now? Give the little girl quota.
Clodagh: That's a difficult one.
I think just be as bold as I was. I said in our, the bowl, there's your naughty, not too many. Is your told stand up, stand up for your fire. I don't have an inner child. Anyway. I have another child. I have an inner adults that I constantly suppress. She's a bit, bit precede. No, the average child's as much as much better to me
Dan Ryan: design more tables with
Clodagh: balls.
I can't tell you how often Danielle dine dive all over town on that story here. What my wife says.
Dan Ryan: Oh my God. That's hilarious. [00:58:00] Um, well I just want to say, I appreciate connecting with you in so many different ways and um, just the time and the stories and. Um, the shared laughter from, from now, and as far as if other people want to get in touch with you, how do they get in touch with you?
Clutter how'd they
Clodagh: get in touch with me. They, they, uh, info at dot com.
Dan Ryan: Great. And then we'll put that up there and we'll have all the links to your website to learn about you because you guys are just working on some incredible things. You have a great team.
Clodagh: Um, we have so much exciting stuff going on and contact you.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Um, well, I'm excited to learn more and continue this conversation. And, um, I just want to say thank you for making me laugh and thank you for being an incredible guest.
Clodagh: Thank you for inviting me to help to make LA
Dan Ryan: and I will have to do it in person with some Guinness soon. [00:59:00]
Clodagh: Absolutely, but in let's champagne things for me.
Dan Ryan: Perfect. Um, and I also most importantly as well, I want to thank our listeners and I hope this talk has evolved your thoughts on hospitality and design and just being bold and following your dream and following.
Clodagh: Yeah. Yup. Do what you can't do. It's my Mo my mottoes do as you've come to give something away every day and do what you can't do.
Dan Ryan: So if this is inspiring you to do what you can't do and try something new every day, please share this conversation with a friend and thank you everyone. And we will see you next time,