Defining Hospitality

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Dan Ryan: today's guest has a true passion for guiding the next generation of designers. She's led a variety of interior design projects over her 16 plus year career.
She's a seasoned veteran in the design and development of international hotel projects. She is a princess. The director of hospitality, interior design at the HOK New York studio, ladies and gentlemen, Dina. Lamana welcome to.
Dina Lamanna: Thanks, Dan lovely beaner.
Dan Ryan: What's Lamana with you.
Dina Lamanna: My dad would love that joke. I see.
Dan Ryan: I'm just full of dad jokes. So [00:01:00] thank you for humoring.
Dina Lamanna: You're welcome. I figured I'd spare you. My hyphenated last name that has every letter in the alphabet.
Dan Ryan: Does it have a Z?
Dina Lamanna: Almost a cane. And w so that's basically a Z. I love it.
Dan Ryan: Um, it's funny when, as we were talking, we were thinking back to where we first met.
And I can't pin it, but I feel like you've always been there in the background in New York city, working at all these great firms. And I, I can't go back to the time we first met, but I feel like you've just always been.
Dina Lamanna: I feel exactly the same. I don't know. Maybe it's too many happy hours, but, um, I know whenever we had a need, we would say call Dan Ryan, you know?
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And then my name merges into one word and then we are calling it. Right. Um, but it's interesting, um, to find ourselves where we are like right now at this moment, speaking to each other, because one of the things in the, in the introduction [00:02:00] of you that I was drawn to was. Your passion for guiding the next generation of designers.
And then I dunno if everyone knows this and I didn't know this really either, but you are an adjunct instructor. Um, uh, where is that at the New York school of interior design? Right? So like what I'm always curious to like, think about how we shorten other people's journeys. A lot of that is by teaching and learning.
And so like, how did you get drunk? To doing that and working with like the new students coming up. And I don't want to know more about that.
Dina Lamanna: Well, you know, just to clarify, uh, I took a little bit of a pause from teaching during COVID. Did that for many years. And I'm also connected to my Alma mater, SCAD and working with those students as well.
And it's always been important to me. Um, you know, the short answer is I grew up with learning disabilities and that was the best thing for my [00:03:00] career because it made me. Learn differently than other kids. And the value of visual learning, um, became a premium to my process. Um, and so fast forward, 20, 30 years as a professional interior designer, um, the value on visual learning and that.
Um, isn't always taught. So at near school of interior design, I, I largely work with graduate students. So they're second career folks or international folks. And so, uh, the design language isn't. You know, firsthand to them. So we have to get creative of how we teach them, um, tools that is going to make them successful.
So, you know, and you're a parent and if you've ever coached any team, seeing somebody progress, um, there's a lot of value in that, that, that sort of fills up my cup in, in our hustle and bustle of the [00:04:00] industry that, that fills me up that keeps me inspired working with the students.
Dan Ryan: And it's interesting.
It's so true. And until you said it, I didn't realize this, but I've noticed it ups for so many people going into design is a second career. Actually, I was just in Chicago having dinner, um, with a group of people and the person sitting next to me, this was like her third career. Um, and I'm curious for the people who are doing that second career and getting into design, is it how, how many of them.
Learn differently. And then they're finally at the point of their, their first career, they're just like, oh, I fucking hate this. And I want to do something else. And then they, they start working in design and solving design challenges and problems, and working in thinking differently, like backwards, forwards, like how many of them just it's like this light bulb and just glow must come out to them is like, oh my God.
I found myself, what have I been doing for all these years? [00:05:00]
Dina Lamanna: Exactly. I think there's a fear for a lot of people, um, because there's a stigma against being a creative, you know, that that maybe you won't be able to support yourself or, um, it's too arbitrary or subjective, but really it's not bad. Especially in interior design and architecture, there's so much science mixed in with design.
Um, so if folks are encouraged to take that leap of faith and go back to school, Start off going to design or architecture school. They'll learn that right away. That's very different than a lot of the fine arts. Um, and so when you find that that's what you're passionate about and you're at school. At least I felt this way compared to my earlier studies.
Um, it just clicked. You almost feel like the is talking directly to your heart and soul as if for the first time education means something different because you get it instantly. It's like somebody unlocked a [00:06:00] door, um, to a part of your brain and your heart and your soul that you didn't have opened before.
So it's pretty magnificent. Uh, once you are able to, to pursue that,
Dan Ryan: Like using that metaphor of open heart because through a lot of these conversations and thinking about what hospitality is, there's this theme of just like being open. And I've heard this idea of openhearted listening and empathy and all of these things come up to it, but it's really like, you have to be open to everything around you and connecting all the dots to create these experiences for other people.
And to really put others first. And again, I don't want to. Your answer here, but you know, for every, I guess for every person that I'm talking to you, I'm asking like, Hey, how do you define hospitality? And, but it's there, it kind of all toes around this little gray area of something to do with that. So leading question, I [00:07:00] guess, although I feel like I'm not leading you too much, but like, how do you define hospitality?
Dina Lamanna: You know, I think the short answer is. Hospitality design as designing and 40, when a lot of. Other market sectors might be designing in 3d. Um, I have the great fortune of working in a large firm and we, we execute projects in many different markets sectors. Um, and one of the most favorite parts of my job is I get to come in as the hospitality guru and bring in that hospitality lens, to all of these.
Market types, aviation workplace, place of worship healthcare. and I think what, does that really mean? I think it just means we want to layer the environment. We want to bring a return on investment that isn't always measured in a spreadsheet that there's an instant impact [00:08:00] that our guests or our patients feel when they enter these spaces.
Dan Ryan: That's pretty amazing because I, this might be the first time I've heard it said in such a way that, you know, okay. So I talked to designers who work at these big architecture, multidisciplinary firms, and hospitality is a, is a vertical within it, but I find it really interesting that other verticals within your firm are pulling you in to give a hospitality lens.
And I think you said, uh, healthcare. Aviation worship war. I'm sure there's more workplace. Okay. So do they take any of those other disciplines and apply that to other places? Or is there something special about hospitals?
Dina Lamanna: Something special about hospitality. I mean, of course, uh, I work in a very collaborative firm and we're, we always share resources and knowledge leaders, but hospitality [00:09:00] seems to be a unique, unique cat that way, you know, a lot of our clients are also asking for that.
Right now I'm working with three of our different offices, San Francisco, Kansas city, and Atlanta on all workplace, um, projects where the client has said, I want it to look like a hotel. I wanted to feel like a spa. I wanted to, uh, make me believe or make my clients think that they're at a great restaurant.
They want to do that because I, I think it's sort of the undiscovered gem that all of us feel when we go on vacation, right. Hospitality spaces make us, um, or help us aspire to be the best versions of ourselves, you know, whether we're healthier or more present and, you know, enjoying the moment, whether. We actually grab our gym shoes and go for that trail run that we never have time for, um, to actually sit down and [00:10:00] have a proper meal with our family, our loved ones and not be rushing to the next activity.
Hospitality spaces help us savor the moment. And therefore I think enrich our lives.
Dan Ryan: So it's interesting because just earlier today I was talking to a former guest, Aaron Anderson. And he was like, oh my God, I listened to this conversation. And it's so great. He's like, Dan, where are you going to take this next?
Like, who are you going to talk to? Where is this? Where are these conversations going to grow to? And I said, I don't know. I'm just, I said, I want to do this for one year and have these really interesting, interesting conversations and learn. But to hear you say that or share that about your class. And the workspace that, and using that hospitality lens, that's what it keeps coming up where I think hospitality and making others feel a certain way.
Um, It's transferable to everything. So it's almost like, okay, we're in this niche of doing what we're doing, but it applies everywhere. [00:11:00]
Dina Lamanna: It certainly does. And I think it's a given a take, even though there's maybe not other market sectors, uh, at least at HOK informing all other market sectors the way hospitality does.
I personally know I've been impacted by working with my colleagues. Um, across the board, you know, there is a premium on, on sustainability and not the green cliche sustainability that ma many of us think from the nineties that there is an ethically responsible way to do design work. Um, and we have to talk the talk and walk the walk, and it's not just about getting.
Uh, certain kinds of products in spaces. It's about designing spaces holistically because human beings spend 90% of their time indoors. So as designers, architects, manufacturers, we have a responsibility, uh, to create environments [00:12:00] that, uh, are not tone deaf, especially to what we've just been through the last two years.
So the same way we can bring that emotional impact, uh, to. Colleagues and our colleagues, clients, um, they're bringing us research data, measured metrics that enhance the environments from the most ethically approachable way possible. So I think that combination, um, and if other folks can get on board with that kind of mentality, when it comes to design, where as valuable.
Aesthetics are, um, that they have to be partnered with, um, true equality and wellness.
Dan Ryan: So let's say. Uh, vertical. That is the farthest from hospitality. Um, but it shouldn't be, for instance, I think has healthcare, I think hospitality and how you make others feel and healthcare and healing. Like to me, it goes one-on-one and I don't know why [00:13:00] it's starting to kind of figure itself out right now, but let's just say.
One of your firms. Uh, one of your offices somewhere is working on a healthcare project. How do you get notified? Like, Hey, we want to look at this through the hospitality lens, like walk us through, like, what's that process. And then how do you guys collaborate? I'm very intrigued by that.
Dina Lamanna: It's a good question.
And, and this recently happened a few weeks ago and for us it starts with, okay, what are the opportunities. Where are the spaces that programmatically need to be efficient. They need to be the workhorse. We're not going to reinvent the wheel. We need to prioritize areas of impact. Um, on one particular project, it was a connecting bridge, a passage way.
If you will, from one building to the next, this is an opportunity. It's an opportunity to think about that passageway that a patient would have, particularly in a vulnerable time in their life. And let's not just make it a corridor [00:14:00] with some access to daylight. Let's think about what that sequence is a hundred feet for somebody who's a health challenge.
That walk could take them several minutes. So what do they want to see? How do we enlist their spirits? Is it sculpture? Is it artwork? Is it a gradient pattern that lets them know every step along the walk is important? It's not, I know we all say this and I'm guilty of it myself, but it's not always about the final destination.
Sometimes it literally is for these patients to saver that walk every step of that one. Mm. And so when we take the time to design environments that respond to each step, There is a receiver on the end. That's appreciating that and Sal and salivating in that. And so we partner with our colleagues, not that they can't do it, um, but we try and bring out, like you said, Dan, that [00:15:00] emotional component and we try and, and drive right to the heart for some of our design solutions.
And it also comes down to cultural, uh, you know, appropriation. And, and where is it? Where is this bill? Who is this building serving not, you know, the Western culture. Doesn't always appease all of the patients. So we have to be sensitive to what other cultures respond to in health and wellness and bring that in.
And that is synonymous to what we do in hotels all the time. Right. We think about the five block radius. That hotels are in. We think about regional drivers. We think about a pallet of local cuisine. Um, we think about indigenous plans and we use that to drum up a narrative for a hotel. It's the same thing for healthcare, right.
But now I think there's a higher impact on bringing in those resources. It [00:16:00] literally can be life or.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. I, I always find, I totally agree with you. And I always find on the healthcare side the few times I've been in hospitals. Um, thank goodness. I feel like it's really being restricted by palette, right.
Palliative material. And by that color as well, and that there's only so many materials. Can withstand these heavy chemicals or blood or just whatever the hell is happening and I'm solid at any given moment. But I just, I feel like that pallet also is expanding and maybe in a way, uh, the stuff that you're, or the projects that you're working on in hospitality or helping others.
Manufacturers of those surfaces kind of evolve and kind of broaden their spectrum.
Dina Lamanna: Exactly. And it's a call to our manufacturing friends. Why can't we have beautiful finishes in hospitals? [00:17:00] Right. So, you know, I think that's where we're saying, okay, we have some great options now, could we have better options?
Dan Ryan: And I think also, I, I, another previous guest I had, um, he was speaking about, um, as far as how they would design in airports and also into healthcare, designing to reduce anxiety. Right. And it's also. Totally how you make others feel so using that bridge as a metaphor, um, what are, what are some ways that you would help kind of smooth that out and make people feel more at.
Dina Lamanna: Sure. Well, I think this goes back to the ABCs of hospitality design. I mean, we certainly didn't invent this, but it's been used for many years where the check-in experience at hotels, you know, very rarely now, do you see a 20, 30 foot long counter barricaded in, in a wall niche? It doesn't give off the emotional [00:18:00] response to a traveler.
You don't know if they lost their bags or if their friends couldn't make it on their trip. You know, so the idea in hotels is the second a guest walks in the door. We're supposed to enhance their experience. We're supposed to better their experience. Um, so if we take that furniture pod that allows a reception, uh, attendee to walk around, guide the person, even take a journey with them.
If they need some more one-on-one time. We take that same sort of science into some of these other project typologies, uh, workplace office, um, you know, uh, health, health care, or hospital security desk, even in aviation, um, there's opportunities. Once you, you get through the security lines to create. Ease wayfinding is a great way to do that.
And it doesn't have to always be done with science, you know, floor patterns, great lighting, um, [00:19:00] and, and key focal points, help to guide the guests, guide the travelers. They will understand, right. We sometimes underestimate how smart our travelers and our guests are. So if we pinpoint them in the right direction, Um, they'll find it and it will create ease.
It will create, um, sort of a shift in their stress levels because even with not ever being to a particular space, if we can make it feel familiar and comfortable, stress comes down.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I, it's interesting to also think about, you know, tying that stress that's felt to those people who. Starting out on their second career and then you're connecting with them.
I'm seeing a lot of similarities in that and, and it's making me want to go back to the whole schooling thing. So again, Where did you grow up again? I grew up on long island. So how [00:20:00] did you wind up going down to Savannah? What, but how did you choose scab?
Dina Lamanna: Um, I actually love bees.
Dan Ryan: I love being
Dina Lamanna: fellow be here.
Yes. Um, and did you know aerodynamically a bumblebee is not supposed to be able to support their body weight with the span of their wings? I did not know that. So that's one of the reasons it is a scads mascot is because it's the little art school that could, this was many, many years ago, but, um, and that's what drew you to that?
Well, not exactly. I mean, I love bees, but, uh, you know, in all transparency, I was kind of a jock in high school and I blew out my knee. And, um, instead of going to school for athletics, Uh, the knee injury presented a rare opportunity instead of going to a school that had some kind of art program. Um, I then had to literally go back to the drawing board, um, and SCAD had a [00:21:00] wonderful athletic program at the time, not to date myself, but when I was there and I was on the volleyball team, um, and the coach was originally from New York and she heard about my injury and she heard about my unique skill set.
Athletic artist. And she invited me to come on down and I felt completely at peace in Savannah. Um, and to me being a new Yorker, it was like a big town. Um, it was very easy for me to navigate. Um, all the buildings were small scale, maybe five, six stories where the highest back then. And so it felt like even though I'd be far from home, um, that it would be a really great town city to learn.
And furthermore, the class sizes were quite intimate. So remember I had those learning disabilities. I'm not going to be in a giant university classroom with dozens and dozens or hundreds of kids. I'm now in a 12 or 13 person studio. Um, and that was for most of my, [00:22:00] uh, SCAD, you know, experience.
Dan Ryan: Could you play volleyball
Dina Lamanna: through.
I did. Yes, I did. And
Dan Ryan: then, so speaking of specialties on the court, what was your specialty bump set or spike?
Dina Lamanna: I was a bumper. Yes. Um, if you watch any of the Olympics, I was the one with a different color shirt on, they call it libero or libero, depending on where in the world you're from. And I'm essentially the ultimate defense.
I don't let anything hit the ground and I'm supposed to just, just like, you know, here's a metaphor, just like hotels. I'm supposed to, whatever gets thrown at my team. I'm supposed to make it easier for my teammates. So smoothing out their journey so that our center, a, the quarterback receives the ball for me, that should be softer and easier than what the team gave up the opposing team.
Dan Ryan: Oh, my daughter is just embarking on her volleyball journey. Um, and I've been [00:23:00] bumping setting and spiking with her and it's been super fun. Um,
Dina Lamanna: I'm coming over. Do you have a net in the
Dan Ryan: backyard? No, but now I feel like I'm going to have to get one. Um, but she's super into it and I think she's really excited to play and.
That's how I didn't, I didn't know. You did that all through college. That's super great. And would you travel all over as well? Yes.
Dina Lamanna: Yes, we, it was pretty wild. Um, halfway through my recruiting process. Uh, the coach, uh, unfortunately it was no longer with this school. And so a Florida division two coach came in and sort of took the program to the next level.
So when I was starting, we had a new coach, um, and he treated it like a very high level division two program. And we went all over the country for matches. So we didn't just stay in the Southeast. He wanted us to get some more points playing against different teams. So we were very lucky, Texas, California, [00:24:00] Colorado, Chicago, New York.
I mean, we literally span the whole country during our season. Um, and it put a premium on time management because, um, we had about half the time, our typical, uh, SCAD friends had to do project assignments and it wasn't like a typical university where you could write a paper on the road we were doing.
Projects and sponge painting and creating 3d sculptures and, and house models on the road in hotel rooms, on buses and airplanes. So it was quite, quite an interesting experience and because you're
Dan Ryan: all, um, art students as well, so you're oh,
Dina Lamanna: wow. Yes, all art students and fun fact, because SCAD draws kids in from all over the country for this kind of specialty program.
We didn't have a single girl from the same state on our roster. So when you think about team synergy, Right. And how different even an upstate to a [00:25:00] downstate program could be. Now you're taking 13 girls who are from 13 different states, different parts of the country to this day. My very best friend, um, was born and raised on a cattle farm.
She's a third generation cattle farmer. So. You know, us long island girls don't know a whole lot about cattle farming. So that was very eye opening and wonderful experience for me at 17, 18 years old. Wow. And what
Dan Ryan: was it, what was your biggest, like most, um, memorable win that you had on the road?
Dina Lamanna: Oh, gosh, I think it was junior year.
Um, our little arts school volleyball program that could, he won the Southeast Florida Georgia championship and it was phenomenal. We were like, I'm getting goosebumps now. You know, we had no business winning it two years prior and we just worked our tails off and we won and we went to the sweet 16, um, in California, the [00:26:00] NAA championship tournament, the next, uh, the next month, uh, we all miss Thanksgiving at home with our families.
Cause we were training and getting ready. Um, and that was just like, it was like a Rudy Ruediger. If you're familiar with that. Oh yeah. Except
I
Dan Ryan: hate Notre Dame, but I appreciate the reference.
Dina Lamanna: Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. So you
Dan Ryan: won the Southeast tournament and beat the likes of Georgia and all those other big powerhouse.
Dina Lamanna: Yeah. And we made it to, uh, we made it to California. And that was just such a wonderful experience. I mean, I've been on successful teams before, but when you're on successful teams, you know, you're supposed to win playing volleyball at SCAD. The first two years, you know, we weren't supposed to win. We were the art school kids.
We, we would go to other schools and they would chant arts and crafts at us, you know, and we pulled it together because we had. [00:27:00] Laser-focus as, as designers and engineers and architects and fashion designers. And, you know, I don't know. I don't know how any of us did it cause we never slept more than four or five hours a night, but we, we got it done.
Oh my gosh.
Dan Ryan: And when you, would you have gone your big road trips? Where was it playing or.
Dina Lamanna: Um, mostly a com actually a combination. Okay. It was, um, depending if we were going all the way to California, of course, primarily plane. Um, but all over the Southeast, it was not uncommon to take four or five hour road trips.
And
Dan Ryan: have you guys had a reunion of any sort yet?
Dina Lamanna: Um, not a significant one. In many years, we used to have an alumni game and we used to come back and play the current SCAD team. Sad to say, there's no longer a SCAD volleyball team. So we haven't done that in many years, but some of us are talking about trying to get a reunion together, even just as set up in Forsyth park with some
Dan Ryan: nets.
Oh my God. That would be amazing. Yeah. [00:28:00] Wow. I cannot believe that you guys went that far.
Dina Lamanna: Yes. And then we wanted it and senior year we won it, but then at that point, you know, we were number one in the region, so it was more expected. But then my junior year, when it was not unexpected, that was the sweetest, sweetest victory ever.
Dan Ryan: Oh, wow. And then, so when you're beating, who did you beat at that final, uh, tournament
Dina Lamanna: game? Um, well there was two big ones. There was one, um, Embry, riddle. They are an aviation school. Um, And then, oh my goodness. I'm forgetting out of, uh, Florida. They were, oh my gosh. This is so funny. They were a biggest rival, um, um, something with an a, oh my gosh.
I'm forgetting. No, they were a smaller school. I'm happy to get,
Dan Ryan: you can Google it, but the reason why I'm asking is, um, I don't know. [00:29:00] It's just so cool to hear about those victories and those tournaments. Like anything can happen in those tournaments and to stick it out and make your way all the way through the brackets.
And then when that must've been amazing. And then I was thinking for the other team, um, to lose to a bunch of artists, must've been like devastating to them. Sorry, artists, but I've just like, it's, it's, it's amazing.
Dina Lamanna: It's so amazing. And one of, uh, another great victory now you're sparking my, uh, my sports brain here, but one of their, one of their times it was, it was their senior night and we were at their school on their senior night and we knocked the snuff out of them and it was great.
Um, is it Armstrong? No. Why am I blanking?
Dan Ryan: Oh, I don't know. I forget more things than I know these days, so,
Dina Lamanna: oh, Saint St. Augustine. What the heck is that school in [00:30:00] St. Augustine. Now this is going to drive my, my college teammates are like screaming in my ear right now. Cause these were like our big rival.
Dan Ryan: They'll send you some hate mail. Um, when did you, when you go into these tournaments or the trophies you get like flour, Flagler, Flagler college. So do you have a favorite memento or gear or Jersey or like tote bag or something that you got like from any of those terms? Like you do keep anything as a prize possession.
T-shirt oh
Dina Lamanna: gosh. So many because when we made it to the sweet 16, our, um, my junior and senior year, uh, what you do is you get partnered with another team and because we're Nia schools, we're from all over the country. Um, so we're supposed to swap different gifts from the region. Our school is from, um, and you do that time 16.
So it was a really [00:31:00] interesting collection of little knickknacks to come home somewhere. You know, we would bring a lot of salt water taffy because that's a big thing in Savannah. Um, and so you get all these regional nooks and crannies from everybody in. It was pretty cool to come home from that tournament and say whether we won or we lost that we were impacted by so many people from all over the country.
Um, I honestly, I think that experience in and of itself not having a single girl from the same state on our roster, including our coach, nobody was from the same state as our. Or our assistant coach, it was truly 15 different people from 15 different backgrounds coming together. Um, and then they, yeah. And then we played all of these unique schools in unique places.
Um, it really got me out of the Northeast bubble and exposed me to so. Much, I think that's why, um, I was able to kind of start doing business from a young age, with the [00:32:00] different kinds of folks, because I can then relate like, oh, okay. They're manufacturing at a Michigan. Okay. I have a great friend. Who's from Ann Arbor.
Let me talk to them about that, you know, and maybe I only know enough for a two minute conversation, but Hey, it's two more. Then maybe the next guy or gal next to me. So it gives me an exciting advantage. I think when bringing all that experience into present day.
Dan Ryan: And how have you worked on a project in Savannah?
Dina Lamanna: Um, funny, you should ask. So I'm working on one right now. I can't talk too much about it, but yeah, it's pretty, I was texting all of my college friends just two weeks ago, saying, look at this wild, you know, life and life is coming full circle. Well,
Dan Ryan: hopefully you're going to incorporate saltwater taffy into something or be stripes or something.
Dina Lamanna: Yes, so cool. Black and yellow is still, you know, prized possessions in my wardrobe. And I [00:33:00] pull that out when I need to have a good workout. Oh, that's so
Dan Ryan: good. And then, um, I bet you within HOK, cause you guys are, you guys have so many people across all of your different silos. I bet you could cobble together a, like a.
Uh, Zog sports, volleyball. I want to see you
Dina Lamanna: out there. We can do it. We can do it. Yeah. They were actually just asking me about, um, softball here in New York, our New York office. So, and I, I played many years ago, so yeah, I could probably dust off the old mint and get out there. And it's super unique team building.
Totally. Sports is an interesting playing at Raul. It is a playing field, but you know, it's when you see people in a sports dynamic, I think you can understand a lot about them. Um, and I think it translates to other areas of their life. So
Dan Ryan: that's what, that's one of the reasons why I want all my kids to play team sports.
I always played team sports because, Hey, you might. You're knocking odds are you're not going to do it for the rest of your life, but to be able to work together and gel together [00:34:00] for a common goal and to the sting of defeat and the joy of victory and all those things like it's, it's like life in a microcosm.
Dina Lamanna: Yes. Yes. And actually the coach that first recruited me at SCAD, um, she said the thing, I was almost like dying to hear from somebody, which is, you're not going to get paid to be an athlete. You have professional athletes, so you need to come to scat. For school and design first, you need to work on that craft.
You've put in all of these hours as a young student athlete, but now it's time to switch that into your craft. You, because this craft is going to be your career and not exactly. So even though at the time it was a devastating fork in the road, you winded up setting me up for a lot of great success in my career, both emotionally, as you're saying that strife, working through that.
Um, and then just figuring it out. Two o'clock in the morning when the [00:35:00] plotters not working, what am I going to do? You know, what are my options? What am I going, gonna bump it,
Dan Ryan: you're going to bump it. You're going to save the day and unstuck
Dina Lamanna: everybody. Exactly.
Dan Ryan: Um, so with all the excitement of, of that, and kind of where you are now, what.
And, and your whole journey to where you are now. Like what, as you look forward, what's exciting you most about what you see in the, in the near future?
Dina Lamanna: Um, you know, it's, it's hard to talk about that, this question without, you know, acknowledging what this craziness that we've all been through the last two years.
Um, and even though it's been devastating in some ways I personally. I feel that it's a major opportunity for designers, architects, manufacturers. And Hey, you know, this is a little bit, um, this is a little bit of a grand statement, but I think besides our medical [00:36:00] teams and our education forces, I think our design and construction industry.
Tremendous opportunity here to respond, um, and create the next wave of buildings and environments that forever change our, our, our skylines and, and not just in, in America or in one region, but across the globe, we've got to think better, smarter, more collaborative, uh, to not be tone deaf to what we've all been exposed to.
So I'm, I'm excited about. Um, you know, part of the change, part of the solution solutions that we need to come up with. Yeah. It's,
Dan Ryan: it's basically like a human, all of humanity. No one is alone. We all went through this crazy sociological experiment and we're still doing it, but like, we were just shocked in so many different ways, but I think as far as [00:37:00] architecture and development, yeah.
And design reacting to that crucible we just went through is it's really exciting to think about where it could go, because I think, yes, we're all we went through this experiment, but really it's, um, there's a silver lining to everything that okay. We learned so much, a lot of it bad, but like how do we take all that stuff and create more silver lining?
Dina Lamanna: Correct. Correct. And I think it's back comes back down to the human response. You know, if you subscribe to the idea that design, um, is, uh, sort of a response or a medicinal response to a human need, you know, this is at least probably in most of our generations. This is the biggest cry for that medicinal need that we're going to get.
So if we don't. [00:38:00] Muster up the strength to respond. Now, when are we going to respond? When are we going to reevaluate our processes? And when are we going to reevaluate how we do things? If, if not now. So to me, that's inspiring because it's easy to do the same old, same old. It's harder to say, okay, we're going to potentially impact a little bit of efficiency here.
To think innovatively and that's the trade-off we need to be brave enough to do. Yeah. And w
Dan Ryan: we almost it's, so we're so fresh while we're still in it, but like emerging from this, it's a, I love that idea of the medicinal response because that. A source of inspiration. I've Al I've always found that like, okay, we all do things on a spectrum that we hate doing and love doing right.
And as much as we try to stay doing what we love doing the most, oftentimes the things that we hate [00:39:00] doing are okay. We get through them. We, there are tremendous learning opportunities, but even though we don't like. They're very informative. And sometimes that stimuli of what we don't like can plot us on a new course as well.
That's the medicinal response. I love that.
Dina Lamanna: Yes, you're right. The things that we don't like doing are the things that we constantly do. So we either have to have a different approach to it, or like you're saying, learn from it. And, um, maybe there's something we can change about it, to like it a little bit better, but.
A lot of value comes out of the things that we don't like to do and taking, taking a different look at things or just saying, okay, we always do it this way, but is that really a good slogan? Probably
Dan Ryan: not, just not a good slogan.
Dina Lamanna: Right. So just because we've all done it this way or that way, um, what, which way are we going to do it?
Dan Ryan: No, it's [00:40:00] the Def, we want to avoid insanity, which is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different response.
Dina Lamanna: Um, adding a few leather chairs near Dan
Dan Ryan: I've made look, I'm all for making mistakes. You know, definitely the first one is always great. The second one. Okay. But you know, by the third or fourth, if it's in the same family, uh, We gotta be aware and mistakes are really how we learn and failure is unfinished learning and I, I'm a big believer in that.
Um, so if you could teleport yourself back to Savannah and, uh, there you are, you're in your volleyball outfit, your pits before it's, before I turn to my game out in California and the present you is standing in front of the past you, um, what advice do you give your.
Dina Lamanna: There's so many things I'd want to say. [00:41:00] Um, I think. I think for me, there's always been a premium on working really, really, really hard. My dad is an immigrant from Italy. Um, so that's been instilled in me. My mom is the second oldest of eight and they're both the oldest child. So there's a lot of, there's always been a lot of value on working hard, um, and, and showing up when the rest of the world isn't showing up.
So I think I would just say work hard. Enjoy it, you know, I'm not, uh, we're not in a industry. That's so sterile that we have, uh, this amazing opportunity to wake up every day and be creative, even on my busiest days, Dan, after all these years and all the responsibilities now I still get to be creative every day.
And that is a luxury.
Dan Ryan: Well, I also think we all get to be creative [00:42:00] every day. But oftentimes we don't take the opportunity to be creative. And oftentimes I find myself being most creative when I want to figure out a way to change a system or a process about something that creates drama over and over.
Right. It's like, how do we lead ourselves past this? But creativity to me. It's the most important thing. It's what gets me up every day.
Dina Lamanna: Yes. Yes, exactly. And I think that's what it comes down to is just, I would say. Have fun and enjoy it because you know, the hard stuff's going to always be there. I think when I was younger, I used to think, okay, if I work hard enough, this won't seem so stressful or this phone see this won't be hard anymore.
But the thing is, there's always another door and there's always life knocking on it. So it's not that there's not going to be hard stuff and stress. It's just that we have to respond to it [00:43:00] differently. And. Um, I think that's been valuable for me the last couple of years, given everything that's gone on to just say, I can change the world.
I can only change my approach to the world.
Dan Ryan: Right. And especially thinking about all the things going on in the world this day. And there are these days where it's like, oh my God, it's just so overwhelming. But then I realized, you know, I might not be able to change this massive, crazy thing that like we have elected officials to do, but what's one small thing I can do to build community or, um, impact, uh, a human being that maybe will pay dividends in some other unforeseen way later.
But like, what's the smallest way I can make an impact that would have paid big returns.
Dina Lamanna: I agree. And, and the immediate example that comes to my mind hearing you say that is thinking back to the students that I had the fortune of working with and knowing some of them, um, are, you know, five, six years out [00:44:00] now living a professional design career.
And that's so cool that I was a part of that. I was a part of their journey and they're bolstering of their own, uh, career and their own craft. Because as we, as we can see 20 something years later, that's still so important and close to my heart is talking about SCAD and my education. Um, so I encourage all professionals, even if you can just go to.
Uh, a class presentation and be a guest crit for an hour or two, your, your impact, your feedback is so impactful. Um, and, and could brighten somebody's whole day with their project. If you see one thing in their project that they worked so hard on it, you can't even imagine how far it goes.
Dan Ryan: And at that positive impacts.
Amazing. And then building on that one, if you like, if you're talking to some of those students and coaching them, and maybe they're going to come work with you, or they're going to do something else in a different creative field, but [00:45:00] as well, maybe more in the silo that you're in. Um, what's the most important kind of strength or personality trait that someone needs to be successful.
Dina Lamanna: Um, I think particularly at a large firm, it's, it's gotta be communication. You know, you're not going to know everything. You're not going to be the most talented. You're not going to be the fastest in a large firm. There's probably always going to be somebody better at all of those things. So if you're a great communicator, you know, Hey, I'm, I'm stepping out for a minute.
Do you need a sandwich that goes along with. Even to, Hey, I had a family situation, I'll be back later tonight, I'm going to plug back in at this time. You can count on me. That goes a long way. When you're in a client presentation and the lead presenter, can't possibly remember every single detail. And you have that specific detail at the tip of your tongue up that would as 4 95, a square foot [00:46:00] that goes along.
So I think being that communicator in all facets of being a colleague, um, is tremendously important. You can nurture that and you can bolster that. Um, the rest can be taught, but that I think is, uh, maybe as an instinct in some people and, and, um, it's quite valuable.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Communicating. It it's, it's getting everyone's intentions aligned and understood.
And again, you know, going back to your bump, the bumper, right. And, you know, I find that some of the. Like some of the easiest things for us to do, who've been doing this for a long time is to help others get unstuck. Right. Because someone might get stuck over the smallest thing, but it's big to them, but then they're like, oh, have you talked to so-and-so?
Have you figured this? And just getting others to tap into our experience, to get them to think differently about how they can solve a [00:47:00] problem. And I think that's also what design, like, if you think about design. Okay. Yeah. You're. Creating things you're pulling pallets together. You're whatever, but really it's about solving problems.
Correct. And I think that with the students that you're teaching as well, I would say I have my, I would ask how many of them, even though they mostly did art, I'm sure. Throughout their high school years. And they're like, oh yeah, I'm creative. How many of them actually learned what design is.
Dina Lamanna: The students that I taught most of them didn't.
I mean, they learned economics, you know, biology. They didn't learn, you know, the in depths of design vernacular. So it is new to them. But I, I
Dan Ryan: would even say that with design, if you're, it's not taught as designed, but if you have to write a paper on something, you have to think of a thesis, you have to think of how you're going to introduce it.
What's what's the story or tell how do you, um, create [00:48:00] arguments around. And define what it is, but really all problem solving is designed. And I think that we just need to, I don't know why that's not spoken. Well,
Dina Lamanna: it's an excellent point because even present day, you know, uh, colleagues lateral to my experience, you know, more junior into my experience sometimes when we get into internal team huddles, to your point about somebody.
Uh, just getting to a roadblock and they're challenged with a certain scenario. I say, well, if you're challenged as the designer trying to mastermind this floor plan or this sequence of program, imagine what the user is going to feel. So if we can just say, okay, as the user, how does this feel? Better look better, work better, then that's the solution.
You know, sometimes it's not, oh, the client [00:49:00] said X, so let's do X let's take it a step further. The clients said expo. Why did they say. How do we make X better in the plan? How do we make the X better in 3d? So sometimes I completely agree, Dan, when we're working as a team and our teammates are getting stuck and I have the ability to come in from that aerial view.
Um, a little bit quicker for me to see it because I'm not saturated in it all day every day, and it's not staring at me. I'm able to come in and say something like that. And then all of a sudden it alleviates the stress, fresh eyes,
Dan Ryan: fresh perspective, fresh
Dina Lamanna: perspective, but to my colleague's defense, they know the answer to, he just needed to talk it out and as human.
We need those touch points and it's almost like a confidence check. You've got it. You've got the right answer. You know, this doesn't work, you know, what feels better? You know, what would be more efficient? That's the solution. [00:50:00]
Dan Ryan: This comes up all the time with, um, this one group. Um, I'm a part of, and the mantra is we're all, we all live in these jars, right?
And this is who we are. Like, we see the world we're in a jar, but oftentimes. As we're doing everything we're doing, we can't read the label on our own jar. We need that outside perspective and communication and feedback, and just also being open to hearing, Hey, what are you reading on that label? Right?
Dina Lamanna: Yeah. Being open to the feedback. That's a big one. You know, when I work with my colleagues, you know, in different market sectors, it's always an interesting dance of communication because they're so knowledgeable and they're so well versed in their market sector. And then I come in as disruptive. Yeah.
And it's interesting for me. It's interesting when you're disrupting,
Dan Ryan: are you disrupting in the, through the, your, your, the hospitality lens disruptor, right? You're [00:51:00] you're changing the focus. Yes.
Dina Lamanna: And so sometimes I have to say things like, well, why can't we introduce this? Or why isn't there a feature state.
Here to connect these two program elements that, that need an adjacency because we've used
Dan Ryan: up all of our billable hours.
Dina Lamanna: Well, there's that right? But it's sort of like, no, no, you're not. That's a hundred percent part of it, but sometimes it's just like all of us, you know, all of us just, and I'm so guilty of it too.
Like, this is how it fits. This is how it works. This is what we're going to do. But can it be better? It's kind of, it's just full circle. Dan. It goes back to what we've been saying, which is like, just because we've always done it this way. Is that really the best way? You know, what do we need to get out of this experience or this room or this building?
Um, and is there a better way to do it? So. [00:52:00] Sometimes those processes and those checkpoints become invaluable because we've got to talk it out. It's not going to just get resolved on 2d lines. Totally. Um, so I, it's an interesting, uh, it's always interesting doing those conversations or having those conversations, but I find that we all learned something.
Share something with me. Well, we can't do X, Y, and Z because of this. Wow. Okay. Valid point. Okay. Let's go into this side of the plan. It's
Dan Ryan: always the co the, the communication and being open to giving and receiving the feedback. And then, um, and being open to always changing, like one of my core values is adapting and improving.
Like, okay, we all have these goals. We all want to win the volleyball tournament. We all want to get that project. We all want to do that. Okay. And then what happens when we do it? It's like, you're never there. You, then you have to think about where you're going next. And so it's always adjusting and always
Dina Lamanna: moving.
[00:53:00] Yeah. And I, you know, I think I would be remiss to not mention that one of the successful components of the volleyball career at SCAD was because we had a strength and conditioning coach who was a former Marine. And we worked out in a very militant style, two to three days a week, all year round. I mean, we would do jumping jacks and come complete unison sit-ups push-ups.
And when we fail that an assignment in the workout, um, the leaders would have to do physical consequences. And if the leaders failed at verbal cues, the rest of the team would have to do physical consequences and me and my co-captain would stand there. So the value of communicating, responding to communication, and then melding together as a team.
It's just so invaluable to what we all do every [00:54:00] day, all day. And that has taken me as, as great as the volleyball wins were and being on the court was. Uh, you know, my 1% eye opening experience to military style training. It's part of the craft, you know, when you hone in on the craft and most importantly, his name was coach Carter.
He's excellent. He's still at SCAD. He would just teach perseverance. You just ha you just cannot give up. There is no giving up. Yeah. And as a leader, you can't do everything yourself. You have to delegate, you have to communicate and you have to build others to their strengths. Um,
Dan Ryan: again, it's a team it's bringing up, you're as strong as your weakest link and it's up to everyone to help lift up that person.
Cause normally it's just all it is. The weakest part in the [00:55:00] team environment is usually experience, right?
Dina Lamanna: Yeah. But if it could be experience, it could be competence.
Dan Ryan: And those are probably tight. Those are probably pretty close bedfellows bedfellows as well.
Dina Lamanna: Yeah. So, I mean, even we try and get our most, you know, green members talking in meetings and presentations.
I think the longer you shield that. The bigger, the sort of Mount Everest feeling. It becomes that one day when they finally have to talk in a presentation, it can be overwhelming. You know, everybody gets a voice on our projects, whether it's one sheet or one series of materials everybody's contributing.
So everybody has a voice. Um, and I think that's, it's quite valuable. It goes back to the idea that there's a premium on communication. Totally
Dan Ryan: agree. And then. If people want it to reach out to you and learn more, how did they get in touch with you?
Dina Lamanna: I would say LinkedIn [00:56:00] is the best way down there at some point every day.
And then we'll, we'll
Dan Ryan: put all the, um, we'll put all the notes, um, in the liner notes as well, as far as, um, HOK his info and blah, blah, blah. So we'll, we'll get your LinkedIn stuff in there as well. This has been so awesome. Thank you so much,
Dina Lamanna: Gina. Super fun, Dan, thank you for having me.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Now I'm going to, now Vivian's going to listen to this and she's like, all right, dad, let's go out at the ball.
So thank you. All her friends are going to listen and then you'll be like, Hey, did you practice with your dad today? Oh, great.
Dina Lamanna: Awesome.
Oh my
Dan Ryan: God. Yeah, I'll I'll I'll wear my knee pads and my little volleyball shorts. How's that for a vision
Dina Lamanna: that's quite a vision.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Um, well, Hey, also to all of our listeners, I know we're growing every week and it's just so wonderful to have you guys listen and learn. And if we change your idea about how [00:57:00] hospitality impacts the built environment and just everyone in general, uh, please pass it along.
It's all word of mouth. And so thank you everyone. And we will see you next time.