Defining Hospitality

[00:00:00]
[00:00:24] Dan Ryan: Hey, welcome everyone. Today's guest is a writer, a life coach, a senior faculty member at the Hoffman Institute, Hillary Illick. Welcome Hillary. Thank you. Hi, how
[00:00:37] Hillary Illick: are you? Good. I'm excited to be here and see what hospitality podcast
[00:00:42] Dan Ryan: is all about. Well, I think what's interesting is you're not in the hotel world and I met you through, um, the Hoffman Institute.
[00:00:52] So I guess maybe what we could do is briefly tell us a little bit about the Hoffman Institute. And then, um, [00:01:00] then I I'll circle back to like why I thought that this would be a really important tie in to. Defining hospitality.
[00:01:09] Hillary Illick: So I met you when you were asleep at the Hoffman process, which is a week long residential program, which is, um, I guess research has shown that it's about, it's tantamount to about 10 years of therapy in terms of the changes that one can make in their neural pathways in the course of a week.
[00:01:30] And it's a program that starts in childhood and, um, Re-experiencing some of the buried hurts and traumas of childhood in order to heal what's unresolved and then move into adulthood as who you are 2.0, like the healed version of yourself. Is that how you experienced? Yeah,
[00:01:52] Dan Ryan: I, I think from, from what's interesting is I actually heard about this first through people in our industry.
[00:01:58] I know a couple of people that have gone [00:02:00] and have had tremendous, um, Results. Um, and as far as 2.0, I would almost think that what was cool is it, it helped me redefined one point, oh, I feel like, you know, through the pandemic and all these things that we're all going through, um, over the past couple of years, um, I just feel like I lost my frequency and, um, it was like this metaphor of pushing a Boulder up a hill and it really helped me, um, find that original frequency that made me.
[00:02:30] Who I am. And I think, um, who I really liked being, so it was like almost my authentic self. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:02:37] Hillary Illick: I like what you said about one point out, I guess, from where I come from 2.0, is, is reclaiming the authentic self as an adult. So it's gonna, you know, a mature version of your authentic self there's, um, an expression that used to be said about the process, which is I used to be different now I'm the same.
[00:02:59] Dan Ryan: [00:03:00] Yes, that is amazing. A hundred percent. So just to cue everyone in what's interesting is basically, I think there were about 20 plus or minus of us from all different walks of life that showed up in Connecticut. I think you guys do it in Connecticut and New York. Um, and what I was, so I'm sorry, Connecticut and California.
[00:03:22] Angelo all over the world, but what really intrigued me and why I thought you would be a great guest on this podcast. As we talk about hospitality, in the sense that all the people from all walks of life, everyone has different expectations or different levels of openness. I was in the middle. Like if you make a circle, I was in the middle.
[00:03:41] I was like, I was like, I'm going to have a great experience. Um, I'm buying in hook, line and sinker, but then there were others kind of on the periphery who were just very unsure or maybe hadn't done a lot of this deep work. And you and your colleagues, the other, the other teachers or coaches that were there, [00:04:00] I thought were just wizards at making everyone feel comfortable and have an overall positive experience.
[00:04:06] So with that in mind of how you could connect and bring people in and get them to open up, like, how do you define hospitality?
[00:04:15] Hillary Illick: Well, the kind of hospitality you're talking to about that you saw me and my colleagues demonstrate is. It is welcoming, which is, you know, hospitality and the way that we do it is through a deep listening, like a deep unconditional welcome.
[00:04:31] So it's almost as if we're saying show up as who you are, tell us what you're really feeling, what are you really going through? And we welcome. We welcome you. We welcome that. And we listened. Um, as you know, that, uh, a great deal of work has done before that week long program, there's a great deal of pre-process work homework that we read.
[00:04:57] So by the time the students arrive, [00:05:00] we already know quite a bit about you from what you've written about yourself. So I think that's how we make room for everyone or make everyone welcome because we already. Have made a deep connection with the students based on what you've told us in your pre-process work.
[00:05:18] Dan Ryan: And I guess that could be very similar to. A hotel or a restaurant where they're so clear on who they want to attract to their right. So they've done there. They've created their psychographic of the guests of who they want to come in. But even within that, even though they're marketing and targeting a certain guests, you get everyone coming into.
[00:05:39] Any of these establishments. So when you think about me being in the middle of the circle, kind of buying in hook line and sinker and just giving it my all and others around the edge, like when you see those outliers, if you will, um, how do, like, what are the strategies that you have to listen? Like how do you do it and where did you learn that and how do you bring them in and make them feel comfortable?[00:06:00]
[00:06:00] Hillary Illick: Well, you said you answered it in your question, which is it's through listening, so it's not actually a strategy. Um, so I think of strategies as being something from the intellect, something in the head, and the kind of listening we do is, is more of the heart. So heart centered listening is, is emotionally, emotionally attuning to where people are.
[00:06:26] Um, so it's not really a strategy as much as it's a way of being.
[00:06:31] Dan Ryan: I love that a strategy, not so much a strategy, but more a wave of being and from the heart. So as I'm bringing in this into like what I do. You know, furnishing hotels and opening hotels. If you really think what I think one of the things why I'm so drawn to it is so many of my talented, um, clients who are designers with that whole iterative design process is so much about tapping into the heart and connecting with those who [00:07:00] are going to walk through this experience.
[00:07:03] Right? So building on that, listening. What is like, aside from listening, what are other ways that you have gone through and made other people, made people feel comfortable in your presence?
[00:07:17] Hillary Illick: Well, I mean, I, I guess I'm just going to be repetitive because I think it's all about nonjudgmental listening. If I'm listening to you and what you're telling me, and there's no right or wrong answer, anything you tell me is your truth.
[00:07:34] I'm listening. For you to tell me what's true for you and I'll reflect it back. So there's, there's no one who could feel unwelcome in that context. Although that said, we do send students home, um, that happens, you know, not every process, but often enough, it turns out it's not the perfect fit. It's not a great fit for a [00:08:00] student.
[00:08:00] Um, it's not the right program for them. And I imagine that's like, The hotel industry too, you know, you might sign up for a hotel, get really excited to get there, and it's not what you thought you were going to find. And so you can get your money back, right? Yeah.
[00:08:18] Dan Ryan: Well, get your money back. Or many hotels will it's called they would walk you to another hotel.
[00:08:23] So it makes sure that you're having a, a good experience. So those are actually really tricky situations. And as you've done it a lot, like how do you. Recognize that and go through the, the process of kind of walking people out of the process. If it's not a good fit and making everyone feel good about the decision.
[00:08:45] Hillary Illick: Yeah. That's a really good question. It depends on why it's not a good fit, you know, the different ways that we would handle. That really depends on the different scenario of why it's not a good fit, but sometimes people are just [00:09:00] resisting the process every step of the way. And then it's not a good fit for them or for the whole group.
[00:09:07] If a teacher is needing to spend inordinate amount of time, trying to get one student to buy in. And therefore is less available to the rest of the students. That's not good for anybody. And if I put it in those terms, actually, people, people don't want to be doing that. If I say to someone, you know, you're, you're really seem to be resisting the process and it's taking a lot of extra time and energy of mine that I'm not able to give to the people who are fully bought in.
[00:09:38] Most people don't want to be doing that. And then, then it becomes a mutual parting of ways in good terms. And very often the resistant person might say, I'm not ready. I'm actually not ready for this kind of deep work. And so then they might stay in touch with the Institute, do a little more work on themselves or whatever [00:10:00] scenario they're in.
[00:10:00] And many people come back.
[00:10:06] Dan Ryan: Were you always a good listener?
[00:10:10] Hillary Illick: I think so. Really. My parents said that I was, um, yeah, that they would just stick my highchair next to the window in Brooklyn Heights where we lived. And I would talk to people out the window when I was really, really little and ask them how they were doing. So I think I've always had a lot of curiosity about people.
[00:10:32] Dan Ryan: Interesting. So on the curiosity side, um, again, I think to be truly curious, it is, there is a lot of listening and experiencing that you have to do. So I've, I've also found that a lot of the things that make us. No, what we like and also good at what we do. A lot of it, aside from just being good at what we do there, it's also informed by like terrible deliveries of service or TEV, terrible, um, [00:11:00] deliveries of hospitality.
[00:11:01] Do you have any kind of formative experiences in your life that. On the negative side, you, you, it puts you on a different trajectory to becoming a good listener, a life coach, a teacher, and a writer and all of these things.
[00:11:19] Hillary Illick: Yeah. That's such a good question. I mean, what flashed in my mind while you were asking it is I had a, really, a lot of trouble, um, as a young.
[00:11:31] Girl in school. I had a lot of, um, trouble not with the schoolwork per se, but with, um, sitting still and listening and, um, being focused. I think I probably had undiagnosed ADHD if I think back to it. And so, um, anyway, I was very, very, uh, disruptive and. And I got in a lot of trouble. And for me that was incredibly painful [00:12:00] because I didn't feel understood.
[00:12:02] I actually, it's funny. One of my daughters was teaching in San Francisco and I went, I was her show and tell person to show that teachers have parents too, but they had some disruptive kids in the class and the teacher, my daughter would just go sit behind them and hold them and like calm their body and help them get focused.
[00:12:20] And I thought, oh my God, I would have loved that. Rather than to be called a behavior problem and, and problematize to have been actually really cared about and helped, helped to learn how to sooth, that would have been great. So I think that, I think that was a negative formative experience that has had positive repercussions in my life.
[00:12:47] Dan Ryan: I love that. And thinking about that whole idea of soothing and kind of just. Being present with that and, and calm. I find like, just from [00:13:00] my experience, going into the speaking of hotels and restaurants, the ones that I remember most, it's not so much like how the place looks or the lighting or how it feels, or kind of the look of it, or, and the people are important.
[00:13:12] Any aspect really? There's just, sometimes you walk into a place and you just feel at peace somehow, the, the really good ones, just check all of those boxes. What are those
[00:13:24] Hillary Illick: boxes? Like? What, how do you create that?
[00:13:28] Dan Ryan: I think it's taking all of that in, and it's almost making it feel right. It as if you're being hugged, when you walk into the lobby or into a room, like the music is just right.
[00:13:38] The smell, the smell is just right. The lighting is just right. The whole ambience, everything is just right. And I guess a lot of people when it's done really well, you don't, it just doesn't feel intentional. There's not the, when it's done the best way. It's almost. There can be no intentionality about [00:14:00] it, but there's so much thought and hard work that gets it to that point.
[00:14:04] Hillary Illick: Well, so there is a lot of intentionality, but it doesn't feel forced or artificial. Correct. It feels organic.
[00:14:11] Dan Ryan: Correct. Which is just, it's really hard to get all those planets to align in that way. But it's, it's when you walk into these places, you just, you know it, um, I know that you've traveled a lot. You, you do, you're, you're traveling a lot.
[00:14:29] Like when you're away, how do you make yourself feel calm and at ease?
[00:14:34] Hillary Illick: That's such a good question. Well, I was just thinking while you were talking that I stayed in this place in Belize. Now I'm forgetting what it's called, but it was a Francis Ford Coppola, his hotel and Belize. I can't remember what it was called, but it was, it was what you're talking about.
[00:14:50] Like, it felt it wasn't showy, but everything was comfortable. Everything was delicious. Everything smelled good. [00:15:00] Um, there was a ton of access to nature. So for me, Personally, um, to answer your question. When I travel, how do I make myself? What was your question feel at home? How do you make
[00:15:10] Dan Ryan: yourself feel comfortable when you're not at home?
[00:15:12] Yeah,
[00:15:13] Hillary Illick: I do really well. If I CA if there is access to nature, um, for me, like if I can leave the hotel and go on a run or a walk and smell nature smells, that's really helpful for me.
[00:15:28] Dan Ryan: Right. And then what if you're in a city?
[00:15:34] Hillary Illick: Yeah, that's harder for me. Um, but, but in a city hotels that feel, um, cozy, or I really liked that cozy factor.
[00:15:44] And like, I think you're right. It has to do with lighting and sound muffling. You know, if it feels like a cozy, if it's insulating from the city,
[00:15:54] Dan Ryan: it's almost like you're walking into a big sweater. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like them. [00:16:00] So as you're, as you're on your journey in life, and you're doing your writing, you're coaching, you're teaching and just helping everyone become the best versions of themselves.
[00:16:13] Um, what keeps you up at night?
[00:16:18] Hillary Illick: Like what do I worry about? Yeah. Um, well, there's been a lot to worry about in recent times, you know, I was incredibly worried at the beginning of the pandemic. I didn't understand, I guess none of us did. I didn't know how, what was going to happen. And a friend of ours in our neighborhood died right at the beginning of COVID and I, it was incredibly sad and I thought, is this the beginning of a whole lot of, is everyone going to die?
[00:16:50] So that's where I went. So that. Um, catastrophic thinking kept me up at night a lot at the beginning of the pandemic. [00:17:00]
[00:17:00] Dan Ryan: Yeah. I think it kept our whole hospitality industry up at night because it was our people. Are we, are we going to live? Yes. But then it's like, are people ever going to be traveling again?
[00:17:09] Are people ever going to be interacting with each other again? And there was, it was like an incredibly existential threat that we've got that we went through and we're still going through. Yeah, but it it's just, you know, you hear this unprecedent, unprecedented, uncharted, um, all of those things, like we, we made it through.
[00:17:33] And so with respect to that, like, how are you feeling?
[00:17:37] Hillary Illick: Well, I feel great now. I mean, I feel, I actually though here's another thing that keeps me up at night. Climate change. So, so as you can see, I mean, the things that keep me up at night are things that actually feel like survival threats to me and the people I love.
[00:17:53] Um, that's where I
[00:17:55] Dan Ryan: go. Climate change has really [00:18:00] changed. Oh yeah. Keep going. Sorry. I do feel
[00:18:02] Hillary Illick: great in terms of, I feel like, I feel like we've done an incredible job or not, we me, but, um, the people who came up with the vaccine and Fowchee, and I think, I think. In general, not everyone, but, um, a lot of people that I respect and admire were showed incredible leadership during the pandemic.
[00:18:22] And I feel like we're at we're at such a much more manageable place because of that. And I hope the same kind of innovation happens in climate change happens, addressing climate
[00:18:33] Dan Ryan: change. Yeah. Um, sustainability is really important to me and as we do more podcasts, I'm going to actually have. Experts on that as we talk about it.
[00:18:43] And just like the cliff notes version from my perspective is about eight or 10 years ago, there was this big push in the sustainability and lead building and everything, and it changed supply chains. It was really cool to see. And then people stopped. Talking about it, things were happening, [00:19:00] but it's almost like when we watch TV, then we watch HDTV and then we just started watching TV again.
[00:19:06] Right. We don't call it HGTV. Um, what's interesting on the sustainability front, um, Is that this whole ESG investing where all the big financial houses now are really trying to get ahead of it. So that, because the peak, all of us, we want this. So now the money, if you follow the money, it's flowing into ways that are easily measured.
[00:19:27] Like, what is the impact? How can we be more sustainable? Um, so I am excited about that and I am excited to dig more into that and things are happening. So hopefully. Help you sleep a bit easier
[00:19:39] Hillary Illick: at night. One of my kids, my son is, is, uh, works in, um, solar energy and he has lots of great sustainable information to give me that does give me hope.
[00:19:53] Dan Ryan: And there's a new hotel. I think it's one of the most sustainable hotels ever built. Um, It is in new [00:20:00] Haven and it is, I can't remember the name of it right now, but my friends have designed it. Um, and it's, it's a huge story. That's going to be coming out. It's right on, off of 95 by the Ikea there. So, oh, is
[00:20:08] Hillary Illick: that where you stayed after your Hoffman?
[00:20:10] Dan Ryan: No, I went up, I actually stayed up at the graduate in new Haven and walked around Yale and do all that. It was, it was a lot of fun. Um, so no, the hotel one Brooklyn. Oh, yeah, that's a great, that's a really fun one too. Great rooftop bar. Yeah.
[00:20:25] Hillary Illick: And that had like little they're little plants in the room in terms of nature.
[00:20:30] Like I stayed there and felt really inspired. Also. It was on the river, which is so beautiful,
[00:20:37] Dan Ryan: an incredible job. All their properties have just, um, from scent to light, to everything. It's all very thoughtful. Yeah. But I think that they do a really, really good job. Um, going back to the things that are kind of keeping you up, um, and just kind of like, there's this immediate existential, and then there's the bigger ones.[00:21:00]
[00:21:00] We don't, maybe we don't have an individual control over it, but collectively we do a lot of people that come into your line of sight and that you coach and help. They're also seeing challenges. And some of them are super big. Some of them are more focused. Like it's a, it's an actual tactical thing. Like how do you.
[00:21:23] In addition to listening, like how do you help people come to terms with those challenges that they're seeing and how do you make them feel comfortable through that?
[00:21:34] Hillary Illick: That's such a good question. I mean, I don't think we can underestimate the power of open-hearted listening. Actually. I think. I think we really needed as kids, we all needed to be heard and seen and understood. And as adults, if we can give that experience to each other of actually really listening to someone, how they're feeling, what they're up against.
[00:21:59] Very [00:22:00] often people come to their own solutions. It's like the body, you know, how the body, the body heals itself, the body's this miraculous healing organism. And so is the psyche. If, if given the proper, if given the proper care, I think we heal ourselves really well. So anyway, that's one. I mean, I that's, one thing I really do is deeply listen.
[00:22:27] And often when I'm deeply listening, people are making suggestions that they might not even hear themselves saying about their own solution. Pop that
[00:22:39] Dan Ryan: back, this whole idea of open-hearted listening, it's really being honest, pathetic, right? Just you're really connecting. I'm listening to you. I'm hearing you.
[00:22:49] And it's making me think of Danny Meyer who started shake shack, union square cafe. And he has a hospitality consulting company now. And [00:23:00] one of the things like we all know. The Myers-Briggs or the anagram he's developed this, I think it's called HQ or hospitality quotient. And a lot of it has to do with how do you, how do you score on, I think it's really being empathetic in delivering hospitality.
[00:23:16] So when you go to that, when you think about that open heart openhearted listening, as you've received service in a restaurant, in a hotel and a bar. Can you define or, or reflect back or remember any of those where it's like the best delivery, maybe even at that Coppola place in beliefs. Was there some sort of open-hearted listening element to that that made you feel good?
[00:23:41] Hillary Illick: Well, it's interesting. I was actually thinking while you were talking of even being. At the airport. If, if like my luggage is lost or I was told I was going to get on this flight now I can't. If, if the person, if the person can't solve my problem, but can say, okay, wait, this sounds really frustrating. You were [00:24:00] told this.
[00:24:00] And then this happened. If they actually listen and say, okay, we're going to help you. Okay. Just that whole process. And I watched it happen with other travelers too. It comes the person down. Versus if the airline person isn't listening, if they're saying calm down or stop, stop yelling, you know, if they combat the, you know, the, you know, the expression, of course the customer's always right.
[00:24:25] So if people interact with the customer, like, okay, you're I know you've got a really important. Issue here. We want to hear about it. Um, I noticed everybody comes down when there's that approach. And so I don't know if that's answering your question, but if I go to a hotel or an airline or anywhere, and people are saying, okay, how can we help you?
[00:24:48] What are you looking for? What might you need to find in our neighborhood here that kind of caring and listening is really a hospital. [00:25:00]
[00:25:01] Dan Ryan: As you're speaking and talking about this and kind of like making the energy or the flow with you, right. You're you're, you're, you're hearing it. You're almost deflected, not the fucking you're taking it with you.
[00:25:14] And then you're coming up with a solution, um, and making sure that they. Experience or, or try and call it together as best of an experience as they can, as you were saying that I was thinking about all of my friends who design and build hotels, where they're creating something out of a clean slate.
[00:25:34] That's this built environment that someone's walking into. I believe they truly have to be open-hearted to kind of visualize who's walking through it. With you as a writer, um, when you're, when you have a blank piece of paper or a screen, however you write paper, pen or computer, and you're writing, like you're not listening to the audience that's out there, but how do you, I think it's a similar creative process where you're connecting with [00:26:00] this imagined thing and, and building a whole universe there.
[00:26:05] So how do you do that when there's no one listening, but you have to almost create this thing. That's going to be like,
[00:26:11] Hillary Illick: Well, I think the creative process is a process of deep listening. Actually, you're listening to spirit, you're listening to the creative muse, you know, um, Michelangelo said David was in the stone.
[00:26:26] He didn't think on. This man out of the stone, he worked with the stone. He was actually listening to the contours of the rock to make this incredible statue. So I think, I think what we listened to when we're creative and I bet this is true for your friends who designed these hotels, you're talking about, you're listening to your reviews.
[00:26:48] You're listening to the creative spirit.
[00:26:52] Dan Ryan: I like that. So in a way, you're listening to something that. Is there, you're just kind of chipping away at it to make it happen. [00:27:00] But oftentimes just to, I want to pull on that a little bit more. So, you know, you're writing from your life experience, but I think you're also doing like.
[00:27:11] Creative writing. And when, when you don't win, when it's just a blank paper and you don't know who is going to read it, like how do you, how do you do that? If you're, if you're chipping away at it, but you're, you're kind of creating something for someone else to listen to.
[00:27:25] Hillary Illick: Yeah. I mean, I guess it depends on the kind of writing, right?
[00:27:27] Like when I write curriculum, it's absolutely for the people who are going to experience. The classes or the experiential exercises when I write, um, I mean, I wrote for the children's show, Arthur and that was writing, knowing that it was for kids, but also for parents who are going to be watching the show with the kids who don't want to be bored by the kids' shows.
[00:27:53] So it had to be. Innocent for the kids, but have a little sophistication. So it just depends [00:28:00] on, you know, I, I think what you're talking about is knowing your audience and writing. So you're listening, you're listening to the creative spirit and also fashioning something in the direction of the audience.
[00:28:14] You've talked about that. With hotels. Right? Who, who's your target? Yeah.
[00:28:18] Dan Ryan: Who's your, who's your psychographic like? Who's that, who's the ideal person or people that you want walking through and smiling and laughing and being their best selves in this place? Yeah. Um, one of the things. And going, like going through, uh, the Hoffman and process and also on the tail end of the pandemic.
[00:28:40] Like, I just can't think of a better time for me. One of the things that was so exciting about it was, we're not, I found that we're, we're not all defined by our patterns and who we are. Right. We're very, I think you said PLA, I think you might've said plastic or formable in some way. And [00:29:00] I also think about like, looking at that on a macro level with respect to, um, hold on, I'm going to edit that out.
[00:29:08] My damn dog. Okay. I'll start over. So thinking about, um, going through the Hoffman process and at the, um, at the end, hold on now he just opened the door.
[00:29:35] All right, I'll edit that out. Um, okay. So one of the, so this is like, just thinking about the future here. Um, coming through the pandemic and going through the process. One of the things that I came into the process of there was kind of like this. What, what does the future hold? There's this whole uncertainty, like no one knows that.
[00:29:58] No, one's we still don't know [00:30:00] what the future holds, but as I went through it, right, we never do, but I felt that like the more people could become better listeners. And the more that we can hear what others are saying and not deflect back that energy, in the sense of like that terrible delivery of, of hospitality, it made me really hopeful.
[00:30:21] For the future, because we do all have the ability to reshape and re and gain new perspective. So what's, as far as like what you're doing and how you're helping people change and see this, how do you see the future? Like what excites you about the future based on the things that you're doing.
[00:30:40] Hillary Illick: Well, okay.
[00:30:41] You mentioned the word plastic in recent years, there's been so much research done on the human brain and neuroplasticity and how capable the brain is of changing and people who've had strokes. The brain will rewire itself around the dead [00:31:00] matter in the brain. We're just constantly regenerating. We're constantly regenerating.
[00:31:06] And so, um, That's really helpful. And that, that old adage you can't teach an old dog. New tricks is absolutely wrong. You can keep learning and making new neural pathways all the way through your life, which, which is really exciting because. The human, that human particular Western humans, American humans, we think, oh, it's too late to change.
[00:31:33] I'm set in my ways. Or I don't have enough time or I don't have enough money and it can help to obviate all of those barriers. When you realize actually you can change so much right now, no matter how old you are, no matter what limitation you have, you can absolutely regenerate right now.
[00:31:54] Dan Ryan: Yeah. And as it pertains to just you or me, or just [00:32:00] individuals, are you seeing as an outside observer, like the collective consciousness or the high of mind, like, are you seeing changes and recognition and does that make you hopeful?
[00:32:11] Hillary Illick: Yes. And actually the most hopeful thing for me that's come out of the pandemic is actually the, the conversation about race and in our culture, I think. And, and, and I just think it's so important that we're all talking about white supremacy and privilege and. The inequities and that post-traumatic slave syndrome, the whole, the whole history of slavery in our country.
[00:32:39] This has always been like the elephant in the room and it's the underbelly of our culture and the fact that we're talking about it. And it's more in the conversation, more in the general consciousness. It's really uncomfortable at first for a lot of people, but I, I, it gives me. A lot of hope that we [00:33:00] could develop a more fair system, for example, the industry I'm in.
[00:33:06] And I'm sure I don't know about the industry you're in, but the hotels that I mentioned really liking one Brooklyn and the one in Billy's were super expensive. So getting to go to a nice hotel or getting to go to a program where you can heal costs a lot of money. And so it's. These aren't things that are available to everyone.
[00:33:27] And. It's that's a problem because actually beauty is so healing and the smells of nature. So healing and peace and coziness and soothing lighting, all of these things are so healing and, uh, my biggest hope would be if they could be available.
[00:33:48] Dan Ryan: I think like going back onto your, just that idea of open-hearted listening.
[00:33:54] And I think since the pandemic and all of the talks about race, which have always [00:34:00] been like this third rail kind of conversation where it's just, there's this fear of saying the right thing or the wrong thing, I've actually seen just through a lot of my friends and conversations through my peer groups.
[00:34:12] Um, That people are more open-hearted to just, Hey, let's just start talking about it more and let's make mistakes. And, but let's not, let's not be, you know, slapped upside the head or whatever for making those mistakes. Let's all be openhearted in these conversations as we heal. And as we progress, um, and allow ourselves to, and be, uh, self forgiving as we start having these conversations, because I think oftentimes in the past, A lot of those conversations in those difficult conversations were avoided.
[00:34:45] And also through this podcast and defining hospitality, I do want to start tackling that and I have some guests lined up where we definitely want to enter that danger and have those safe conversations, because I think the more we can be open-hearted and listen, [00:35:00] the better our future is for everyone and the better that everyone can experience and, and we can change the structural, um, Inequities that that just exist.
[00:35:12] They're there. And it's important that we're open and sensitive to them so that we can plot in a new way.
[00:35:18] Hillary Illick: Totally. Right. The inequities are there. They're cruel. In fact, there are so unfair and we need to be able to talk about them. And, and as white people, we need to be able to listen to what it's like to not have the privileges that we have.
[00:35:34] And, and, and we need to also. Work hard to change the system. That's benefited only some, some people and not
[00:35:47] Dan Ryan: everyone. Yeah. And I think in these conversations that I'm going to be having that whole idea of being more openhearted and an active listener and a good listener, um, that I learned from you, wizard that you [00:36:00] are, um, I think that they're going to better inform those conversations, right?
[00:36:04] I'm really looking forward to them. And again, you're going to be a part of those conversations because you're in me and you taught me how to be a better listener. Thank
[00:36:12] Hillary Illick: you. That's so touching and moving
[00:36:15] Dan Ryan: well, I appreciate you. And you know that. So, um, as, as we think about like who you are, Hillary, like you live out your live in the Boston area, you're traveling a lot.
[00:36:26] And I know that you said that when you're traveling you like that cozy. More of that sweater kind of feeling as you go to places, but when you're away, like what's your, what's what food like satisfies your biggest homesick need? Like if you, if you're feeling homesick or you want to get home, how do you solve that?
[00:36:44] Through food
[00:36:46] Hillary Illick: green things, green, fresh green food, like lettuce. That's not brown, crispy, like fresh. I think fresh vegetables make me feel [00:37:00] like. Like, I don't know, like I'm being taken care of.
[00:37:06] Dan Ryan: I love it. And then, um, so vegetables, wholesome foods. Um, and then have you always been that way or is that from your gr your sojourn in California?
[00:37:18] Hillary Illick: No, I think I've always been that way. I mean, I like, I actually personally like lots of food. I don't just like vegetables. I like all kinds of, I'm an actually an omnivore, but, but if I go somewhere and I can't get fresh food, um, I feel anxious.
[00:37:37] Dan Ryan: I love it. Um, so. I always say, like, what I do is in consequential, why I do it is I get to shorten people's journeys.
[00:37:46] I get to make sure that people are cared for along their journeys. So as far as like, if you were to approach your younger self. What advice, knowing everything that you know now, if you, if [00:38:00] maybe a little bit older than when you were in Brooklyn Heights, in the talking to all the people walking by, but like, if you were to see your younger self, maybe in your early twenties, as you're about to start on this rocket ship of a ride of your life, like what advice would you give yourself?
[00:38:19] Hillary Illick: What a great question. I think to really well, first of all, That it's trial and error. I mean, I have all my kids are in their twenties right now. And, um, and I think it's so important to be given permission that this is trial and error. You don't have to know exactly who you are. And like you were saying earlier, we don't know what the future holds.
[00:38:39] We don't know who we're going to be when we grow up. Even if we think we do cause events intercede. So. I would say it's trial and error. It's not about being perfect. And it goes back to what you were saying about your experience at the Hoffman [00:39:00] process is to really, um, let yourself be who you are and let yourself find out who you are.
[00:39:06] You're not supposed to be, you're not supposed to be someone that you're not there's no should have who you should be. You already are, who you are. Each of us already are who we are. It's our job to really listen to ourselves and see who, who am I really? And how can I express myself?
[00:39:28] Dan Ryan: I think what resonated the most with me of what you just said there was, we don't know who we are.
[00:39:35] And I don't remember when it was in the process, but I've always believed this. You have this art, all these art types, there's all these different personality types. There's a big pie of them. Right. And we may find that we, we may believe that we are, oh, this is our personality type, or this is who I am.
[00:39:51] But going back to that idea of plasticity. It's really, we are all things. We make shade heavily towards this one thing every now and again, [00:40:00] but we all have the ability to be all things.
[00:40:03] Hillary Illick: Yeah, that's beautifully said. And that's where the inner connection. The interconnectivity of all of us comes in, and this is something people are talking about a lot more as a result of climate change.
[00:40:15] In fact, like we're all in this together, we're all on this planet together and how we treat it and how we treat each other affects all of us. So. That's what that made me think of, but, but what you were also saying made me think of how we are always regenerating or generative beings. So, so who, who we thought we were, how we defined ourselves at seven might be different at 19, might be different at 50, at 70,
[00:40:45] Dan Ryan: you know, and I, that whole idea of regeneration.
[00:40:49] So that's another thing I would think about and like, what's the best way for you to regenerate? To feel rejuvenated.
[00:40:58] Hillary Illick: Well, actually, you know, [00:41:00] we're talking about writing. I used to write professionally now. I mostly write personally, um, not for publication or, or other people at the moment. And so, because writing reconnects me to myself, the process of writing and I, I, we, as, you know, we, we, um, Give people, a lot of writing experiences at the Hoffman process.
[00:41:23] And it's not to ever show that writing to anyone or necessarily even reread it. It's because the process of writing is a deeply self connecting experience and regulatory it's where we often learn and have a Tiffany is, is through the writing process.
[00:41:41] Dan Ryan: My experience. Yeah, my experience with writing, um, at the process in my life, I write a lot, um, It's also, whether it's recounting an event that happened or creating a new event, there's this focus and connection to this unknown?[00:42:00]
[00:42:01] Not that I'd ever written anything like the statue of David in that block of, of, of marble, but, um, There's this deep connection to that other world. Yeah. Yeah. It's
[00:42:12] Hillary Illick: kind of
[00:42:12] Dan Ryan: magic. I also, I find for me, it's also that this idea of travel and new experience is very, uh, regenerated regenerated. For me, it gives me new perspective, new breath.
[00:42:26] Um, but it's also reassuring just to hear. That writing can be that as well. And I haven't thought about that. So thank you for,
[00:42:36] Hillary Illick: I guess I think of it as a terrain of discovery,
[00:42:39] Dan Ryan: terrain of discovery
[00:42:42] Hillary Illick: and, and, and if I don't right. Sometimes amazing things will happen during the day. And if I don't take a few minutes and write down some things that really moved me about today, I might've missed them.
[00:42:54] It's not till I actually slow down and take stock and I guess this doesn't have to be through writing. It could be through a [00:43:00] thought process, but writing just keeps happens to keep me focused. It keeps my mind from wandering because I'm focused on what writing it down.
[00:43:09] Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I guess doing it in a reflective way at the end of the day for me, it's I feel a lot of gratitude and appreciation.
[00:43:17] How does that work for you? Yeah.
[00:43:20] Hillary Illick: And as you know, So, this is not about writing what I'm about to say, but at the end of most days at the Hoffman process, we lead the experience of appreciation and gratitude, three things you appreciate about yourself. Three things you're grateful for from the day. And we actually do recommend that, that people write those down.
[00:43:39] Um, but, but it's, it's, that's training the brain to be positive or our brains have a natural negative bias. It's safer to mistake. Stick for a snake than a snake for a stick that keeps us alive. So we naturally gravitate towards scanning for the negative for survival [00:44:00] reasons. So we actually have to, many of us have to actually train our brain to focus on the positive and just feel that it's safe.
[00:44:08] It's safe to, it's safe to slow down and really look at what what's beautiful about today.
[00:44:15] Dan Ryan: Um, I just had a guest on. Yesterday the day before. Um, and he was reading a book by this guy, Warren Russ fan, and I was surprised that he was reading it, but, uh, seeing Warren rusty and speak at MIT at this event or at this, um, Entrepreneurial masters program.
[00:44:35] I was at, it was amazing because he actually has this method of 10, 10, 10 it's 10 minutes of meditation or mindfulness, 10 minutes of reading. 10 minutes of writing. Yes. So I, I did this habit and I w I wanted to share that because, um, with respect to gratitude and appreciation, I feel like I would really feel gratitude.
[00:44:59] When something [00:45:00] went wrong. Like if I had a friend that got really sick or someone died, I'd be like, oh my gosh, I'm so grateful for everything that I have, um, on my health that my family. Um, but when I started writing, instead of having these spikes of gratitude and appreciation, Um, there was, uh, almost like this gentle hum or static noise of gratitude and appreciation.
[00:45:21] It wasn't like I was walking around like the Dalai Lama. Um, but it just changed. And this idea of writing and creating is, is a very peaceful place to be.
[00:45:31] Hillary Illick: I agree. I think of that as like the magic layer, if I meditate and write those two things. Tap me into this other layer that I think is always there, but if we're busy and rushing and we're in our heads, we're missing, we're missing out on it.
[00:45:48] Dan Ryan: You know, as you're talking, I really you've made me think of, um, you know, the Equinox gym. Yeah, I've seen them. So they have hotels now. And, um, one of the things that they're very focused on is [00:46:00] sleep and just peacefulness in the room from the whole experience. And as far as regeneration, I definitely think it's worth, I want to talk to them about.
[00:46:11] How they, how they're doing that from a design perspective, right? How do they fill in the, how do they fill in the space there so that you feel rejuvenated and regenerated?
[00:46:21] Hillary Illick: That's interesting. But once when I was staying in New York, um, at a hotel that wasn't particularly cozy, um, I went and got a massage around the corner at this place because they had a room, a garden room for meditating.
[00:46:37] Um, and it was, it was a room filled with people. And little waterfalls and you could just sit there and feel like you were in the middle of nature and it was connected to a place to get a massage, but, um, just made me think of that like,
[00:46:51] Dan Ryan: well, and there's a word for that. So any, and it's a big trend I've actually written about it's called biophilic design where there's a lot more greenery and green walls and [00:47:00] just, um, just nature bringing it inside because it is, yeah.
[00:47:04] I will feel like I'm going to
[00:47:06] Hillary Illick: meet about that.
[00:47:10] Dan Ryan: Um, yeah, biophilic design it's it's quite amazing. And then also just, you know, from my experience at being at Hoffman while the, where the retreat center was, it wasn't like the coziest place. It's very kind of like Spartan, but it works because it's not about, for me, it wasn't about what I was experiencing.
[00:47:30] As far as comfort and design, it was more the journey inward within me. Yeah.
[00:47:36] Hillary Illick: Yeah. It's clean and comfortable, but it's not about assumptions in experience. It's about being comfortable and nourished enough to be able to go inside.
[00:47:50] Dan Ryan: Um, so as far as one of the things that I love about. How I came to this thing about like, why do what I do shortening people's journeys.
[00:47:58] A lot of it, it just [00:48:00] it's really impacting others. Right. So how do you feel that your work is impacting others in the world at large?
[00:48:12] Hillary Illick: I think, um, it's all about impacting others. It's it's about, um, healing, soothing and healing, and. Exploring and self-acceptance, and self-compassion, I think if everyone had self-compassion, everyone would be able to listen to each other more. The reason I don't think we can listen to other people as we experienced them as threats and what they have to say as threatening.
[00:48:42] But if we had a self-soothing mechanism to be able to be with ourselves and be compassionate with ourselves, I think we can listen to each other more. And if we listen to each other more, we can work together more. Anyway. So I think this whole [00:49:00] career that I'm in of listening and healing and teaching self-compassion is it's about world peace it's steps towards world peace.
[00:49:12] Dan Ryan: I agree because as I was sitting in that room with the 20 others, you know, you guys are all impacting us. You're doing it in California at the same time, those 20 are changed. They're going somewhere else and impacting, or there they've changed. Maybe everyone else hasn't, but maybe they're pulling them a little bit closer to more compassion, more listening.
[00:49:31] So it's almost has like this ripple effect of impact.
[00:49:35] Hillary Illick: Does Bob Hoffman used to say he's changing the world one person at a time?
[00:49:42] Dan Ryan: He is, and it has an impact. It's a, another thing I like saying it's from this book movie, the power of one, a waterfall starts with just one drop of water. Right. I love that. Um, so, you know, as we're kind of rounding third base here, how can people [00:50:00] find you? How can people learn more about the Hoffman Institute and, and impact the world in a positive way?
[00:50:06] Hillary Illick: So the Hoffman Institute it's online, you know, www Hoffman institute.org. You could just Google the Hoffman process. Um,
[00:50:18] Dan Ryan: Yeah. Great. Awesome. Um, well I just want to say thank you, Hillary, for all of your time, I've appreciated it and you, and the impact that you've had on me and the impact that I'm having on them.
[00:50:29] Um, I just also want to thank all of our listeners. I hope this talk, uh, evolved your view on how to deliver hospitality by being openhearted and listening. And in some way informed you. Making sure that everyone else in your life is cared for on their journeys. So I learned a lot today. Just reinforcing my idea of open-hearted listening.
[00:50:49] Thank you, Hillary. And if you did the same, please share this podcast with a friend and, um, thank you Hillary. And thank you everyone.
[00:50:58] Hillary Illick: Thank you. That was so fun [00:51:00] to think about hospitality.
[00:51:01]