Defining Hospitality

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Dan Ryan: today's guest is responsible for guiding the design of all north American projects for the canopy tempo and motto brands at Hilton. He's an innovative industry leader. He has a fabulous eye for interior design. He is the senior director of lifestyle at Hilton worldwide ladies and gentle.
Barry Sullivan. Welcome Barry.
Barry Sullivan: Thank you very much, Dan. It's nice to be with you. It's so
Dan Ryan: good to be you, uh, to be with you. Yeah. To be you. Oh, if I could be you Barry
Barry Sullivan: it's so wonder careful what [00:01:00] you asked for . Well,
Dan Ryan: one of the things that I like to do at the beginning of these conversations, um, with people that I have a, a longer kind of more Securous personal relationship with is kind of give a little background there.
And I think I first met you. It must have been an. 1999 or 2000. I was working for Steve Higgins. You were working with mark noro, helping do, uh, on, on the design coordination with, uh, Mark David furniture. Correct? I don't remember exactly the
Barry Sullivan: title. I, I think we met with Steve weren't you didn't you come to Jim north cut's office?
I could have come to, I think that's the, well, that's the first time I remember meeting Steve and I think that might have been, you might have,
Dan Ryan: I think I could have been with him, but you know, what's funny is everyone remembers the first time they met Steve Higgins mean he rest in peace, but he, uh, he he's a really special, um, influence in my life.
And I think for the [00:02:00] industry as a whole, but that was a, a very brief encounter, but the real magical part of it. And I think it ties into the larger conversation that we'll have about hospitality is I lived in this magical. Place, uh, under the Hollywood sign in Beachwood canyon on, um, on Beachwood avenue and, uh, my wife and I lived there with our dog Herby and it was this magical kind of compound where apparently Linda, Ron stat recorded an album in one of the rooms of, of, of, of the apartment we lived in.
There was just like this really great energy. I think Harry Dean Stanton had his name carved into the. Sidewalk out front,
Barry Sullivan: but Kevin bacon lived there for a while. Oh, did I didn't even know
Dan Ryan: that? So wait, I can be connected to Kevin bacon by one step now.
Barry Sullivan: No, he can be connected to you now. yeah. Great.
Dan Ryan: Oh, thank you for flipping that one.
uh, it's all about perspective. Yes. But [00:03:00] the reason why, so there was this just, it was just a very magical place. And I think a lot of it had to do with the woman that owned the compound, her name, ISDA Hallon. And I don't know for any, all the people out there that ever read or saw, uh, Omni stud mals, uh, tales of the city.
I think it was tales of the city. Yep. That's right. Um, there was this one character Mrs. Madrigal, who was like the kind of glue that bound everyone together in her building that she rented right to out to like really like just wayward souls and just a whole bunch of different people. And she was kind of the thread that pulled them all together.
And I see IO is very much. Like that and probably, and still is. Yeah. And she actually grew up there. I think she lived there from when she was five years old and onward. Um, but a couple years after we moved out, I think I, Alexa and I had moved to New York city and then she reached out to me. She's like, oh my gosh, Dan, I think you really need to meet someone who used to live here.[00:04:00]
And he's just the most wonderful man. And I think he's working at a big hotel company. I don't remember what it's called. His name is Barry Sullivan. And I said, oh my God, I think I know him but the, I guess the, the amazing thing is, is we both lived in this incredible magical compound at two very different times, but I feel like in some way, Ida has connected us.
As the Mrs. Mad goal. Yeah. And I don't know. And I think that's why we have kind of such a, an affinity for each other and, and such like a, a deeper connection in, in what we do and why we do what we do.
Barry Sullivan: It, it took you past the, uh, the job description of just being a rep. We had something in common to talk about and, and shared experiences living in, in California and that part of Hollywood, which was, uh, which was, and I'm sure is still pretty special, even though it's changed over the time.
So yeah, that's, that's where you, you jump from, from [00:05:00] purely business to business and, uh, and personal,
Dan Ryan: personal with magic. Because again, I think Ida is like this magical human and yeah, now that I feel so terrible for not having reached out to her for, for a couple of years, and now I'm going to do that as soon as we hang up.
Yeah. Um, but I don't know. I just feel like it's, we so much of it, what we do is like why we're drawn to it. And I think a lot. What draws me to all these conversations and even just the work that my, in my vocation of providing furniture to hotels, um, it's not about the furniture or the, the industry that we're in.
It's almost as if it's a vehicle for me to make others feel cared for and taking care of. And I think I could apply that to anything. It just happens to be that this is the vehicle, but if you were to think about your experience living at 25 95 north Beachwood avenue,
Barry Sullivan: um, no secrets. Now everybody knows where it is.
Right? I know it's
Dan Ryan: very secret. You go find [00:06:00] Harry Deaton, Harry Dean Stanton's name and the sidewalk out front. But like, if you were to go back there, you know, and think about Ida and as magical as she is. Like, how did, did that in any way influence your journey to where you are now?
Barry Sullivan: Um, well, what was interesting about my time there, cuz it was a summer after I had left, Los Angeles had moved to North Carolina, had the opportunity to go back and work for Wimberley for a summer, uh, freelancing for them.
And that's where I ended up staying. Um, and so it, it was not only a full circle of. Going to school in LA working there for a long time, leaving, going to North Carolina and then coming back that, um, that really made that so important. And then that part of that part of Hollywood was so interesting. Um, and it was, it's almost a city within a city kind of thing.
Um, because it's, it's remote, [00:07:00] but in underneath the Hollywood sign, so. Everybody knows where it is. They don't always know how to get there. Um, but, um, so I think for me, and then when I stayed there, I stayed in, I think, three or four different apartments because I was there for so long, I had to keep moving around.
So I got a sense of, of, of different locales. And it was a really interesting, uh, experience to have over a long period of time, because it was it's, it's a quiet little enclave in a, in a big, huge city. So I'm not sure if I answered your question or not, but, um, yet, well,
Dan Ryan: in a, okay, so in a way you did, because let's pull on this thread.
I had, I went to USC, I lived in LA, after I moved up to San Francisco, then came back to LA, lived in west Hollywood with Alexa, and then we were looking for a new place to live. I think they were gonna, they sold the bill, the house we were renting and. [00:08:00] I think they tore it down and built condos, but then we were looking and she found this place.
She's always searching, but she found this place in Beachwood canyon and having lived in LA for six or seven years at that point, I'd actually never even heard of it. It was like this little special moment. Um, topographically energy sun, every, I mean, there's a horse stable all the way at the top of it, which is just crazy to me.
I started running there. Um, it was just a very, uh, pivotal place in my life. So it just, I don't know, it just. I just feel very drawn to it and drawn to other peoples that, that find the magic.
Barry Sullivan: Yeah. In that. Well, it's, it was, it's also a very lifestyle neighborhood within a, within a big city. And so we could, we could pull on that thread if you want, but yes.
Um, that, that whole, that whole neighborhood up there from its inception, um, to the, to the entree of Hollywood land before the, the land fell off the sign and the housing [00:09:00] development up there. But I think the people that lived with IO were indicative of what, who, everybody who lived in that, that neighborhood.
And so from a lifestyle, um, perspective, they were people that had. Some things in common, but they were, they were the, the non-typical people of the time they were musicians, they were artists, they were, um, performers, whatever there is, there's a couple of theaters down on Hollywood that people could walk to.
And so it really, it really developed as a, as, as many of the neighborhoods in LA did as a, is a, a community and a lifestyle community. But because of its, uh, geography with only one street in, and, and the everything that you can get to from there, it, it really was a little enclave. Um, it was, and that's what I appreciated about it.
That it was, it was, it was a, a little town and a big city. It
Dan Ryan: absolutely was. And, and there was even just up the [00:10:00] road from us. I don't know, 200 yards, there was a little teeny market, which was amazing a little diner. And I think like, and, and then I, I just, you know, and running up to the top of the hill to start running up in those fire trails and full of coyotes and everything, I'd always just see regular people and a ton of celebrities driving down.
Yeah. Um, it was like a really magical place. And I think from a lifestyle perspective, which is, I'm glad you're pulling on that thread. Um, it does have everything kind of contained in there in this very unique spot, but it's not, but it, it has people from all different walks of life mm-hmm around it. So I think that is pretty amazing.
And then to think about that as a lifestyle influence for you going one step further from lifestyle and, and now all the work that you're doing at Hilton, how do you think that that helps shape what your definition of hospitality is? [00:11:00]
Barry Sullivan: Well, it certainly helped, uh, define the definition of lifestyle because when I started with Hilton and, um, the, the canopy, which was the first lifestyle brand was introduced, my first question is, well, what does lifestyle mean?
Um, um, what does it mean to the brand? And so I think the, the reference point of, of living in LA and, and having that experience in Beachwood, but west Hollywood, whatever it is, there's, there's so much, um, nuance to living in LA that is specific to a neighborhood. And the thing I hear from people who go there and have never been there before, it's like, it's just one big city and there's, how do you understand what's going on or, or anything about it, but you, you know, as well as I do when you've lived there for a while, You know where one end one neighborhood starts and, and another one stops, even though it might be along the same street, but you know that there's some divisions and, and you [00:12:00] recognize that being there for a long time that, okay, this, this, this part of sunset Boulevard has a its own, um, its own qualities.
And, and as soon as you pass X street, it turns into another set of qualities. So I think the recognizing that. Even in a big city like LA, there are people who gravitate to certain aspects of, of life that are important to them that resonates with it, whether it's Beachwood, whether it's the beach and living in Santa Monica or, um, any of the beach communities, people end up there because they feel comfortable.
And, and we talked about it a little bit earlier about that's what hospitality is, making people feel comfortable, or, my definition is making 'em feel comfortable, welcome, and warm in an environment that's not their own. and I think pulling those, pulling those aspects out of where you live and looking [00:13:00] for it.
Where you go and travel to is, is I think what a lot of us do when we go to a new city is GE I gotta find a good coffee shop, or where can I go to good pastry things that you do at home? You want to find, um, not necessarily find the same thing, but, um, the version of that in whatever city you'd be happening to, to, to visit.
And so it's go ahead. I think pulling those nuances out of, of what, what makes lifestyle, uh, important to a specific traveler is, is really important.
Dan Ryan: I always said that LA is a really difficult, I think I may have even said horrible place to visit, but it's a tremendously incredible and vibrant place to live because there are so many pockets and topography and mountains and oceans and skiing and, and, you know, just there's everything and just all the history of Hollywood.
I don't [00:14:00] know, it, it, it's a really incredible place to live. And I love that you bring up canopy, cuz I did wanna get there and canopy being the first lifestyle brand that Hilton has done it also, you know, it started to launch and kind of get some momentum before the pandemic. But really in, in earnest I remembered the glimer of hope for me that, that our industry was all gonna be okay.
Was the velocity at which I don't know how many canopies opened it during the pandemic, but it was just. It just, it helped me to kind of keep calm, carry on because there were so many that just happened and it, and they've been, I think from everything I've been reading, they've been outperforming in a, in ANMA in an
Barry Sullivan: amazing way.
Yeah, they have. So we have a, we have about 33 hotels, uh, worldwide, uh, 26 of them are in the states. Um, and when Gary Stephan was the head of the brand, uh, up until, uh, a year or two ago, his big [00:15:00] mantra in 2019 was. 20 canopies in 2020, that was our thing, 20 and 20. Um, and of course that did happen. Um, but it happened virtually and remotely.
Um, I didn't visit one of those 20 hotels that we opened in 20. So it was as it was a little bit bittersweet because we, I started with the company in January 15, um, when we had two hotels in the pipeline. Um, and, and so the, the work that, that four, five years of work or whatever it took to get those hotels to a point of opening, it was, it was very saddening to, to not be able to go to those mm-hmm
Um, and not only, not only not be able to go, but also to figure out. How do you do a model room and how do you do a hotel opening, which we normally go and walk through. And two weeks before they're opening, you're, you know, you're kicking the tires and looking under EV the hood of everything and to not be able to do [00:16:00] that, um, was disappointing.
But it also, it made us quickly try and figure out how we can do this cuz hotels, they, they needed to open. Um, it, it was just a part of what, uh, the normal process at that point. Um, a lot of lenders said, no, if the hotel's op the hotel's done, you gotta open. Um, not every hotel had the, the ability to say, well, we're gonna wait another three months until we think the market is better.
Some lenders really said, Nope, you gotta be open. So we had to quickly figure out how to do that, um, with something that we were always used to doing and in person. So,
Dan Ryan: and have you heard from other people that. Just the rapidity by which canopies were opening, that it also helped reassure them that everything was gonna be okay.
Or am I kind of a, a freakish alone opinion in that?
Barry Sullivan: No, I think so. I think, um, it, it was the, you know, it was the buildup, I think up until then in 19, we might have had four or five [00:17:00] hotels open, but the, the, the major, the majority of what we had been working on that represented. Um, before they opened the bandwidth of what the, what the brand represented and, and how different, um, a, a hotel in grand rapid is, could be from a hotel in Boston, but they could still be part of the same brand.
That was the, that would, what, what we had been working on so hard to. Have a common thread that represented a level of service and a level of design and a level of localization and, and being hyper, uh, hyper neighborhood. Um, it, when all of that existed on paper, there was it, it took the right developer to say, yeah, I, I think that's a good idea.
I, I wanna be a part of that, uh, because when you don't have you, can't go and walk somebody through an existing hotel and say, well, this is what we're gonna build. And you can do it how you want, as long as you keep these key pillars. [00:18:00] We didn't have that availability cuz we had, we had only a few hotels and um, as I said, it was the, the brand existed, mostly on paper.
So 20 was, was really a, a, a watershed event because it really just threw so many hotels into the pipeline opened in the pipeline that people finally understood. And if you go to our website down and look at the variety of designs and new construction versus adaptive reuse and, and the variety of hotels that came out of the, the, the last, uh, seven, eight years it's it's for me is, is pretty startling and, and amazing.
It's been, uh, immensely, uh, fun to be a part of that, um, that whole process. Um, and especially at Hilton, when we weren't, we weren't necessarily duplicating something that already existed. We were really venturing into new territory. Well, that's
Dan Ryan: actually really surprising to me. And again, as a. [00:19:00] Hospitality.
I, I find myself rather than more of an expert, although I'm an expert in what I do. I find myself to be more a fan of our industry. So I might not know all of the details, but I know the good, I know the good stuff when I see it, but I'm also really surprised. I didn't realize that that was Hilton's first independent brand.
Barry Sullivan: Well, I don't, I don't mean independent brand, but it was, I mean,
Dan Ryan: lifestyle. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't realize I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was Hilton's first
Barry Sullivan: lifestyle. It was. And then shortly after that, um, the lifestyle collections brand, so it was followed, I think in 17 or 18, uh, we launched in fif in 14, late 14, early 15.
I think it was in 17 or 18. We launched Curio, which was a collection brand, but still lifestyle. And then a few years after that, it was, uh, tapestry, which was also a lifestyle brand, but [00:20:00] those were collections and they were soft brands and it was a different, um, Path to market than canopy was, which was a hard brand.
Um, and so, so that was the big distinction cuz we had more, we had more guardrails around what the brand wanted to be with still with lots of flexibility within that. But, um, it did have a set, uh, a pretty set, um, list of parameters that were, were the objectives for the, for the new built and for the,
Dan Ryan: and then just to clarify for the listeners that don't know a soft brand, and again, please correct me because I'll probably misspeak here, but a soft brand is a hotel that could kind of be whatever it wants to be, but then would operationally and through reservations and uh, training team, all that kind of other infrastructure that people might not experience or understand that would all fall under the flag of.[00:21:00]
One of the larger brands and then you would have a soft brand that, so it's kind of like a lot more flexible. And then with the lifestyle brand of Curio, it's a hard brand, even though it is lifestyle and some people. And it's interesting because even though it's lifestyle and it's a hard brand, which means the brand of one of Hilton has a lot of say in what it is, it still kind of bridges the gap between this soft brand and a, a really hard flag brand, because it just also seems like everyone is unique to the place where it is.
So it's, it's, I'm, I'm just trying to envision that like a ven diagram of like boutique lifestyle and independent and it kind of, and I guess you throw brand in there and I guess that's that rarefied real estate where canopy probably lives. Right. I don't, I don't know very many that. Have checked all those boxes with such kind of [00:22:00] focus.
Barry Sullivan: Yeah. Um, well, the, the, the, the soft brands or the collection brands do have much more, uh, flexibility in what they can be. And we're a little less stringent on every aspect of the yes. Room. It's, it's more about that. The hotel. Name and presence in whatever city they are takes, takes, um, takes precedent over Hilton.
So if you go to a, a cur or a tapestry, you won't the, the, the association to that soft brand is very light and you could walk in the front door and wouldn't even know that you were in a Hilton property until you get to the front desk. And it says Hilton honors. That's the extent of it. There's not much on the outside of the building.
Um, that association lives mostly online. Um, they're online presence is, um, they find it because they come to book our hotels and they're an honors member or whatever it happens to be. And that's the benefit to the, to the [00:23:00] owners is that they, they can maintain that, that alleged or, or perceived autonomy.
Um, but then they have the, the benefit of, of hooking onto our engine and getting reservations, but they can still maintain, um, um, the. The appearance that there, there really are a, uh, single branded unique hotel within an environment. Not that not, not that it's downplayed, but it it's it's for those hotels.
And originally the, the, um, collection brands were for hotels that might be a single property and a, and a well known the Del Coronado. And for instance, in San Diego is a Curio. It's still the Del Coronado. You, it, we didn't, it didn't change to Curio Del Coronado. And the, the, the affiliation with, with Curio is very, um, um, it's two or three times removed, um, when you come on property, but you still know it as the Del Coronado, whereas our canopies are all known by, [00:24:00] they all have canopy the name on, on the hotel.
Dan Ryan: So I'm also curious, as far as this being Hilton's first lifestyle brand hard brand, that is lifestyle. Um, You have so many road warriors and raving fans, each, each flag, whether it's Marriott, Hilton, Intercon like you have these people that are kind of bound by the frequent, uh, traveler rewards program or mm-hmm or whatever that is.
And, but they're, they just they're unwavering. Those raving fans. Mm-hmm like, I'm a Hilton guy. This is what I want. And I'll stay only at Hiltons for whatever reason, but you know, they're in there. I'm curious. What kind of feedback are you getting from those kind of, I'm probably using the wrong words, but the, the raving Hilton fans who experience a canopy for the first time.
Barry Sullivan: Um, it depends on, on how [00:25:00] familiar they are with the brand. Of course, anytime, um, something new comes out within a, within a company, whether it's an airline, that's got a new route going somewhere, or it's a, um, somebody like Hilton that we've opened a new hotel. Um, the, the nuances of, of why someone may wanna stay at a canopy versus a Curio versus a Hilton or a double tree, um, are sometimes, um, they don't, they don't go seven ed deep and, and learn a lot about the brand.
Most times it's about the location. So that that's usually the primary driving factor. I will say that, um, one of our, our Hilton, uh, the canopy in Portland, Oregon opened, and, um, one of our, our big issues was to. Do away with water bottles. So as a HIL honors member, you check in, you get two bottles of water.
Well, part of [00:26:00] the, uh, sustainability efforts and things, our, our efforts was to put a, a water, um, filtered water and ice dispenser on every floor and put a caff, a bottle in the room that you would then go and fill up. This was even before people traveled with water bottles, as, as much as they do. Now, I, I did hear from the general manager, they had the, the, the, a couple checked in and they were, they wanted their water bottles and they, when they checked in, they said, oh, I'm sorry, we don't have them.
Um, we have filtered water on the floor and, and they weren't irate, but it was that, um, they were a little bit taken aback. Here I am at Hilton and I, I'm not, they didn't understand why some of the nuances of what canopy represented and why, and, and, um, why it was important to the people that we identify that were going to resonate with this lifestyle brand.
I mean, [00:27:00] lifestyle, you can have as, as many different definitions of it as you talk to people. And that's why we've then. Um, um, launch motto and tempo. They are also lifestyle brands, but they, um, from our standpoint, we're catering to a different audience. Um, and those brands are geared to that. So on the rare occasion that somebody might, um, somebody who's used to a Hilton or a double tree checks into a motto, or, or they may not necessarily be expecting it.
So, um, we, we sometimes have to do some, um, Education on property or we, we do our best in our marketing things is to really be clear about, um, who our, our, who, our intended audiences. It's not to say that it can't be to anybody, but, um, because lifestyle, um, at a canopy or a temple or motto, it's about your, [00:28:00] your frame of mind, you can, you could be 70 years old and stay at a motto.
If you are in that mindset. It's the same thing with, uh, with any of our brands. If, as long as you resonate with, um, what the brand represents, it's not an age thing. And I think initially. When the lifestyle was launched, it would say, oh, well, you're going after millennials. Well, no, uh, they're not the only people that would stay at our hotel.
And, um, um, Gary Stephan, um, famously joked when he was the head of the brand, he said, well, I'm a 50 year old millennial. I, this is the kind of hotel I wanna stay at. And I may not be in the age group, but I'm in the mindset. And, and so there, they're in light, um, a lot of where our work had to be done. Oh, I love
Dan Ryan: that.
And I love that. I love what Gary said there, because I feel like I'm a 46 year old millennial. My only caveat to that is in most of the rooms that are designed for the [00:29:00] millennial traveler. There's not a really great work surface because everyone wants to like work from bed or work on a little window seat or something like that.
So that's the one caveat. I, that for me personally, Might make me a little less than a hundred percent millennial.
Barry Sullivan: I, I, I think that that pendulum has swung both ways on, on that subject. There was, yeah. I, I think part of what you, what you identified is that, oh yeah, millennials said they don't work at a desk and, and so.
Some, some people took desks completely out and then you get people who say, well, what if my desk? So the pendulum has kind of swung back. We never, we never really went that far as far as, um, um, stripping things out, um, motto, which is a very small compact room does not have a desk, but it has to work surface so that if you choose not to work in bed and you want to pull up to at least some sort of work surface, [00:30:00] it's not, it's not a 20 inch depth desk, but it's, it's a work surface so that, um, there's, we try and, and accommodate as many different attitudes to traveling and routines as we possibly can.
I love that.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I don't mean necessarily mean that I need a desperate, a work surface. Yeah. That is not cocktail height. because I'd like to, right. I just like, my posture is bad enough that I don't need to be hunched over a little cocktail table. Yeah. Working in a lobby somewhere. Just gimme something that's a little bit higher, but that's just me.
Okay. We digress. So, um, on your journey to where you are right now, um, at Hilton, where did you find your passion and love for hotels?
Barry Sullivan: So, um, I didn't realize you went to USC. So did I so see, this is, oh, I didn't this, we just learned something about each other. So how long have we known each other? And we didn't, [00:31:00] we didn't even connect that dot.
Dan Ryan: Oh my God. I had no idea.
Barry Sullivan: So, um, yeah, I went to USC, got a degree in architecture. Um, but the architecture school at that time was going through a lot of reworking and it, it ended up not being a great educational experience. I mean, I learned a lot, but the department was trying to figure out what it wanted to be and how it wanted to, to, um, teach.
So when I branched,
Dan Ryan: let me pause you there for just one second, because I started off as architecture there, but then I was also on the rowing team and then I, after a couple of Allnighters in the, in the architectural studio and then I'd have to get up at four 30 to go pull on Oak pores. Mm-hmm um, I couldn't do both.
So I wound up switching out of that, but that's how I came back to, to design because I kind of regretted switching to literature because I was rowing and not staying into architecture. So that's, that's kind of how I found my [00:32:00] way back, but I didn't know. We were both Trojans fight on. Yeah, yeah. Now we're in the, now we're in the big 10.
Oh, now we can, now you and I will be able to really. Kind of pester Larry Traxler on Ohio state now because we'll, he's a big Ohio state fan and now we're Def we're gonna be playing them at least once every year. So I, I do see some nice.
Barry Sullivan: Okay. I'll let you do that for me, seeing that I report to him. I don't really wanna, I don't wanna really get on his bad side, so I'll let you, I'll let you do the football side for, for me.
All right. And, and I'll energetically support you, but I'll, I'll let you perfect. I'll let you, uh, dive in the deep end.
Dan Ryan: Perfect. I'll just say it from very end all. No, I'm just kidding. I'll take you out of it. So, uh, Eyes aside. Yes, keep
Barry Sullivan: good. So when I graduated, when I graduated, the idea of working in an architecture firm was, was pretty unappealing.
Um, so I did something else for a couple years and then got back into it and worked for, [00:33:00] um, um, um, what was then, um, Sue Firestone's, um, smaller company called design one. Yeah. Um, and at that time they were just in the early stages of starting to hotel, but a lot of it was retirement homes and, and, um, a senior living and things.
And I worked there for about a year and then an opportunity came up at, uh, James Northcut associates, um, which, um, people may recognize the name. Um, maybe not, but, um, Jim was probably the most influential, um, person. In my design career at that time, because I, it was then that I realized there was a way to connect architecture with interiors up until then it, um, it always felt like interiors was decorating.
And I didn't understand how, um, thoughtful and how important someone who. [00:34:00] Interior architecture was to a project and, and not just the architecture, but, um, the selection materials and, and all of that, all of the backgrounds into what, into which the, um, uh, furniture and all of those other things go into.
And, um, I, I can mention several of Jim's projects that if you go to today, that even though they've been open for 30. Maybe 40 years, the architectural backgrounds have not been changed. Um, it's the furnishings that have gone in to keep the projects current, uh, from a design standpoint. Um, but so the, and.
And understanding the scale of those things and proportions and how you move through a space devoid of, of any of the furnishings. It's just the, the built environment. That's where I really, um, understood how those two things [00:35:00] could come together as a profession, as opposed to being two separate, um, entities.
Um, and wow. So that was, that was really was eye opening for me. Um, worked on a lot of great projects. I did have the opportunity, um, because of, of Jim's work at the, um, in Beverly Hills, we ended up, uh, doing a, um, a palace in Saudi Arabia for a very young, um, princess, uh, prince and princess. And, um, at that time, most of, of the work being done in Saudi Arabia for people in, in the Royal family was lots of gold.
Lots of, of, um, Reproductions of French and, and English antiques and the fussier the better, well, she was 29 years old and didn't want any of that and really resonated with a different, um, uh, different, uh, um, aesthetic. [00:36:00] And we took over that project, um, while it was under construction. And most of the things we did early on, well, because it was still under construction, was changing door with door Heights, moldings, because as you look down these long quarters, uh, no offense to architects, but there, there, there, there wasn't, they hadn't taken it to the next level to understand that your, your, your view down the quarter gets all, um, interrupted and arches aren't, uh, at the same spring point and all of these, these small things that, um, We concentrated on that time really came full center, um, and really understood that, um, it's, it's more than just where the four walls are and what is, what are you're standing on, but how all of those aspects come together in a, in a kind of, uh, cohesive design.
And when you
Dan Ryan: [00:37:00] were, when you took over that, uh, palace project midstream, were you allowed to make tremendous architectural changes up to that point?
Barry Sullivan: Yeah, they were, um, she was really quite astute as a, as a, as a very young, um, client. She really understood, um, what we were trying to do and I, I walked on site and would mark.
With chalk, oh, you, I need a, I need an electrical outlet here, or I need a J box for SCO and I come back the next day and they had chipped out. So this was a concrete building that was built and they would just chip it out. They were, the client really wanted it done, um, correctly. So it was, it was easy to do and it was not, um, it was not at all cumbersome to the project, um, which is probably rare in, in a lot of cases.
And, and, but it also spoke to why you look at all of those things ahead of time and you put 'em in the drawings, which is what Jim, [00:38:00] um, always did is that they're always part of that is everything was detailed and measured and, and all of those references were already put in. Um, this was just an opportunity to, to try and correct things that were, um, had, had been designed around a different, um, a different direction.
And now we were trying to, to kind of unify it and clean up things.
Dan Ryan: Wow. So working for Jim. Just open your eyes to all of the possibilities and the importance of what the interiors are. And then how did you, how, how did your evolution from, from experiencing Jim and his vision kind of evolve to. Where you are now.
So,
Barry Sullivan: so at, at, at that point, I, I do wanna give credit, um, because, um, the design director at Jim's office when I started was Darrell Schmidt. Um, and so I worked, um, so Darrell worked closely with Jim and I worked closely with Darrell. [00:39:00] There was, there was, um, um, and so there, there was that great working relationship and, and Darrell was unique in the same way that those were all that's, that's part of why, um, he was hired and, uh, hire Jim hired him because he had the same sensibility and architectural background, but also really well versed in, in design.
So, um, so I learned a lot of that, um, from Jim through Darrell and then, um, when Jim passed away and we were, our offices were combined with, uh, Trish Wilson's and then Darrell, um, left after a few years and went off on his own. And I worked with him there. Um, so it was, it was. It was that, um, that approach design that was so important to me and that, that I really got so much out of and, and Darrell was, um, very much of this.
I don't wanna say they were, they were Jim and Daryl were the same, but [00:40:00] they, they had different perspectives that, that reached the same goal. And, and, um, I really learned an enormous amount from Darrell also. And I think what was good about both of those experiences, they were also small offices. I have this unofficial theory that, um, private practice is successful up until about, um, somewhere between 12 and 18 employees.
And then if you are, if it's your company and, um, And you get to a certain size then if design is your passion, you're no longer, you're doing design. You're worried about where, where is where's the next project coming from? You've got HR stuff. You've got all these other things that, that are about running a business.
And sometimes that, um, that kind of sidetracks, um, The intimacy that you have, uh, that an owner or anybody has with the, the principal, um, [00:41:00] because they can focus on him. And so, um, that's why, um, that was part of the reason also because I've known Darrell for so long that I went to work with him when he started, um, um, started at his own company.
Um, and then we ended up, um, and that also was an opportunity to work with some of the clients that had been Jim's prior that had gone away, uh, during the merger and then had had resurfaced. So, um, but even the, the experience with Tricia when, um, when the two companies were merged, she was really, really good friends with Jim.
And that's why that, that whole partnership came about when Jim passed away. Um, and it was, that was my big, I would say that that's probably one of the closest I came to working for a company like Hilton that that's so big. Um, when the two offices, when the Wilson office merged with the north cut office, I think we had, um, I know we had upwards of 60 people, um, almost overnight.
Um, and we [00:42:00] moved into Wilson's office and there was people drafting in the corridors and stuff. It was just, we, it was so, um, and both offices had so much work going on, but that was an opportunity to really experience, uh, design kind of, uh, pedal to the metal with projects in Las Vegas and in China and in Europe, there were just so many of them, it, it was, it was an eye-opening experience.
Um, and, and
Dan Ryan: after that merger happened, did you interact with Trisha a lot or a little or. How did you guys cross
Barry Sullivan: paths? She would, um, no, it was more of an autonomous, um, she would come to town occasionally and it's funny, some of the people that I worked with at, um, Wilson, I'm now working with that other Margaret MCAH was there at the time.
So now I'm I'm with her at ly when we're working on projects. So it, um, that was nice about it also because it introduced me to [00:43:00] so many people that have now gone in different directions, but I still remain connected to. Um, so, um, anyway, it was a, it was a really great experience. So I saw Tricia occasionally.
Um, um, she would, you know, a couple of times a year or whatever would come and she was really delightful. I really loved meeting her and she was so nice. She's
Dan Ryan: so she's so inspiring and just kind of what she built and, and just the amount of people that she's impacted in this. Uh, kind of diaspora of everyone that kind of came up under her and went on to do all these other great things you included.
Um, the list is, uh, immense. It's just unreal. Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm just a huge fan. I've only met her a couple times, but I I'd love to have her on at some point. Um, going back to the 12 to 18 magic number for a design firm before it, like you kind of have to scale and the organization just changes. Yeah. It's [00:44:00] interesting you say that cuz um, I not, I won't name names, but I was re recently speaking to a friend slash client who has a design firm and um, they're like, yeah, we don't want to get more than 12 people.
And I'm like 12. Wow. That's a very specific number. And
Barry Sullivan: he,
Dan Ryan: he didn't really say exactly like why, but I'm sure it's about all of that stuff. It's and, and it reminds me of a book I once read called. What is it called little giants where there's so many businesses and, um, there's so many businesses that just make the decision to stay small so that, you know, and this one book that goes into like, just Annie DeFranco, the, you know, the recording artist, she's from Buffalo.
She just wanted to keep her recording studio and her, her, um, production company, super small and in Buffalo. And so they use that as a case study. There's a countless other ones, but it's interesting how [00:45:00] so many of just like, I call them the business porn books where it's about like grow and scale and this and that, where it's really, how do you really find that balance of being able to be that special 12 to 18 person?
I don't know, like incubator to just something that's so much more massive and I guess, you know, Hey, whatever path anyone chooses, it's all good. But I, I feel like there's so much pressure on. Everyone in business to kind of just scale and get huge. Yeah. Where I think it's, it's reassuring to hear that, you know, that 12 to 18 number.
And I, I think that, that, I think a lot of people listening to this will, I, I, I know it will make them think differently as they're on their, uh, entrepreneurial career path. So thank you so much for sharing that. Mm-hmm um, any, did you wanna say something else? No.
Barry Sullivan: No, that's that's yeah. I was gonna say that.
I think it, it depends on how passionate you are about your [00:46:00] business and how much of, of that passion you need to maintain during that. So if, if it is being an artist or, or whatever it is, and, and it's, um, and you're a designer and you want to remain involved enough in those projects to be able to direct and guide and, and understand where a project is going versus.
Um, we just need to bring in more business and, and there'll be a general overview by somebody in the company to make sure that things are kind of going in the right direction. It, it really depends on what kind of ownership and involvement and how much involvement you want through the project. And of course, in a business like ours, building a hotel, You know, it, you're, you're looking at, you're signing up for three or four years to be with something.
And so it, um, it's a long term investment and, um, I don't, I don't think people that I've worked for and, and when I've done. So I don't wanna get to [00:47:00] the point where, um, I start something and then somebody else finishes it. And, and you're only in, um, bits and pieces, the involvement from start to finish. And I think that's, what's been unique for me at, at canopy, is that because they were up until recently all new builds, um, they are a start to finish.
And so you're dealing with the owner when they sign their agreement on day one and then all of the drawings and submittals and, and meetings that have to go through to get a set. Of construction drawings. And then during the construction process, that whole thing is you're, you're marrying somebody for, um, for, for four or five years, or if not longer that's if everything runs on schedule the things like the pandemic, we had projects, um, that came to a screeching Hal, and now they're restarting.
So. What was a three year project is already, uh, a five year project because we've lost the last two years. So, [00:48:00] um, it's that I find really rewarding is to do, to have that start to finish. And I'm sure that's where most of the people listening to this are, are where their heart lies also is to start with, for lack of a better word, a blank piece of paper.
Um, you get a new project, uh, you have to learn about the city. You have to learn about the owners. You have to learn about all of the nuances that go into it, and then you're creating something specific for that project and everything that leads up to. All of the things that have to, um, happen before the front door is open.
That's what I find is, is really rewarding. Um, and so, um, I've been fortunate in that step that where that we haven't done. Um, well, well, I shouldn't say that where I'm just getting to the point now where some of our hotels are old enough that we'll be doing renovations, but, um, to have that experience of a start to finish project is, [00:49:00] is really quite unique and really, um, really challenging, but it's also, um, really fun for me.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. I think to be, to being able to see the full cycle from start to finish, it's very rewarding. And typically, unless something really weird happens, you're always working with the same team. Um, and that continuity is very important. I wanted to also just. You know, create some boundaries on like the small to big, right?
So you have these smaller companies out there, right. That they do a fine job. Then they scale everything is, you know, it could be, it could be great. It could, might not be great. You sometimes some of the magic changes, but I wanted to flip that back into your, your Hilton experience, because I keep reading like every year Hilton gets ranked as one of the best places to work consistently.
And Hilton has just been growing and growing and growing since they went public. Like, what do you think that, that, what do you think that magic is? [00:50:00] That helps that habit? I know it's not, it's not just like get a stamp. A lot of work goes into that and it's all verified, like from your experience, what makes it such a great place to.
And how, what makes it great. And how does it achieve that on a, on a continuous
Barry Sullivan: basis? Well, I think like in anything, it has to start at the top and, um, Christmas set a, aside to me, a very personable, easy person to talk with. Um, he is, is always engaged with, um, with team members. Um, and when I was in the office up until the pandemic, um, I happened to be on the same floor with him, you know, he would wander through just the different departments on the 11th floor, just say hi to people.
I mean, it was, it was, it never started out as a, as what I would consider a corporate officer or what I thought a corporate office would, would be. So that was initially my first, um, I think during the onboarding of the first day you [00:51:00] go there. Hilton is a first name company. You call people by their first name.
There's no Mr. CETA or things like that. If you're, if you're working there. So that permeates down through. Um, and so it, it does feel like a family and it feels, um, that there's a lot of concern about, um, making people feel warm, welcome and, and, and, um, and comfortable in their, in their, in their non-home environment.
It's, it's really the, definition of hospitality. So that is our mantra. And, and of course, Conrad, uh, Hilton's objectives, 105 years ago of filling the, world with the warmth and light of hospitality is, is where that started. And, and, um, I've. Having worked at other companies. I recognize all of the, all of the [00:52:00] things that Hilton does to make work life and, and, life outside of work as, nice as possible.
I've, I've, there's some of us, some of the older folks at, at Hilton who have worked other places, um, that we, we often, um, often talk about how people who come in for internships and then get jobs here, get, get a job at Hilton and they go somewhere else. And we often hear God, I didn't know how good it was when I, until I left you go somewhere else.
And you don't realize that, um, that that environment is, is. Is not something that happens organically. It, it really has to, there has to be a thought behind it. Um, and I, I really do believe that that's what, um, higher ups at Hilton are always concentrating on is what can we do to make, um, people enjoy working here.
Um, There was, um, it, it, it costs, um, an and this, [00:53:00] I don't, I'm not saying that this is the reason they do it, but it certainly does figure into it. There's an enormous amount of, of investment that any company makes when somebody comes on board, um, to get them up to speed, to get them into a, a productive work environment.
And when somebody likes that leaves and you have to start all over, not only is there that, that gap of time, where that curve, you have to rebuild up, but there's a monetary thing to it as well. It was a great story, um, that I was at an owner's conference a couple years ago when it was in Dallas and they were talking about the team member areas, which are normally.
Uh, well, not normally, but in many cases are in the basement of the building cinder block walls, linoleum floors, um, really cheap tables and chairs. And, um, they had a very high turnover rate at this particular hotel, which was a [00:54:00] Hilton. And they figured out that by doing, by making the, the break room nicer, putting some art in there, having thoughtful furniture that looks good together.
There's a color scheme that they, they, they, um, reduced their turnover rate by 30%. And they also calculated that the cost for retraining, somebody was about $25,000, even if it was just a housekeeper. Um, so there's, there's a lot of value in that. And, um, I, I don't know that. I don't know if other companies think that it's just a bottom line thing.
Well, we've gotta give a free lunch on Friday, or we've gotta do something like this and that it's cost it's, it's not a cost. It's an investment in, um, it's an investment in your employees. And I think it's a large reason why, at least the people on my team and the people that I, um, I interact with on other team brand teams on the [00:55:00] model team, on the tempo team, everybody's just really nice to be with.
Um, everybody, um, appears to be happy in their job. They seem to appreciate it. Um, and they really just want to be there. And, and as I said, having worked a lot of other places. I, I am continually reminded of, of what a good job Hilton does about always thinking of ways to, to make employees lives better.
And I
Dan Ryan: do get the feeling, just not just from what you're saying also, but just things that I read and just other anecdotes and conversations with people that it really does come from the top down. And, um, I don't, I, I think I've met Chris, I don't know once or twice, but it was just a handshake. I've never really spoken to him.
But again, all the things that you're saying it, it's just like, again, top down it's infectious, um, it's an in invest. It, it, it is an investment. And also I'm curious, you know, when you were describing that break room, I can't tell, I've been in hundreds of hotels and looked at the, [00:56:00] and you know, you go to the break room when you're in the back of house.
And I can't tell you the vast majority of them are just terrible. And like, if you're treating your teammates this way, how can you expect them to treat guests a different way? And actually that made me think was Hilton the one, the first one to coin instead of, or switch the term or the nomenclature instead of back of house, it became part of
Barry Sullivan: house.
Well, we, um, it could be our initiative to address the team member break rooms was called the heart of heart of house initiative. And it was about assembling, making it easy for owners to say, okay, here's three color schemes that you could pick from here's three furniture packages. Um, here's how to paint the quarters.
Here's how to change lighting. And so, um, I don't, I don't know if, if I'm not gonna claim it, but I, I know it is our initiative. It was called the heart of house and it might have been, I, I,
Dan Ryan: I feel like I I'll verify this after we're out, but like, I really feel [00:57:00] like, yeah, I think Hilton was the first one that I heard referred to it.
And then I do re I didn't know the details of the initiative, but it's not just words or bluster or, or a poster. It's everything from all the people I know and love that work at Hilton. And I do get the same. Feeling, and it, and again, that goes right to culture. And if you get the culture right. You know, all the accolades come along with it and the investment in the people.
So yeah. Thank you for sharing that part. We,
Barry Sullivan: we, we took it a step further in lifestyle. So, um, when, so in canopy, we don't have team members, we have enthusiasts, we don't have employees. So we, um, we, I love that. Uh, so the, the general manager is the chief enthusiast. And, and so, um, so when part of the, part of the brand descriptive was that.
In the, the team member break room, which was called the enthusiast retreat or, um, affectionately, [00:58:00] the ER retreat.
Dan Ryan: Oh my God. I love this. I didn't know that. Oh my God.
Barry Sullivan: Keep going. So we, so we told, uh, we wrote into the standards that the owners needed to, uh, reference whatever front of house design was happening in the back of the house.
So that. The team members, when they were having their meal, they were in an environment that was similar to what the guests were experiencing for that very reason that there's not this big disconnect. When you go through to go to your locker room, that you, our, our approach was that they should still feel like they are in the front of house.
And that they're immersed in the environment that guests are immersed in, even when they're not on duty. Um, and that now has bled over to motto and tempo as well. It's, it's not a big investment in money, um, but it is a huge investment in, in human resources. [00:59:00] And mm-hmm, , I, I think the response from all of the hotels has been really positive from of course, Unless they've worked somewhere else.
They don't have anything to compare it to, but, um, it's really, it's not that big of a deal to put an area rug in somewhere, put into nice art, um, upgrade the seating a little bit, put in some decent lighting. Um, there's no reason why you can't have wall covering or nice paint. And, and it's not the two by four fluorescent lighting in a, in a cinder block wall room.
Um, and I think it's been very successful for, for canopy on all of our brands. And I think that was what also with the objectives of the heart of house. The heart of house was a way. To, um, retrofit existing, existing hotels that were already open and trading to have, uh, an easy button way for an owner to apply this to the back of house.
Again, we're always, we were always working with new build, so it was easy to put these things in from the get go. Um, [01:00:00] but that was, that's always been the approach on lifestyle is that there should be a, a seamless experience for the, the team members, whether they're on duty or not. It is
Dan Ryan: amazing if you think about design where oftentimes many people see design as a, there's a massive barrier to entry or a huge cost to it, but really, you know, going back to how you defined it, it's just about, you know, being intentional and making people feel warm and comfortable.
And you know what, sometimes it's lighting paint in a rug and it doesn't have to cost an arm or a leg, but the people who are entering that environment or the, the heart of that house or the heart of any house or the hearth. Of anything, you know, they pick up on it. They feel that that effort is being made.
Barry Sullivan: Yeah. Whether whether or not they consciously recognize it, but you certainly recognize it when you, if you go beyond a door and it's a, it's a stark, completely different environment. Um, versus one that you just feel [01:01:00] like you've just gone to a different part of the hotel that guests can't go to. Um, so I it's, it's a, I think it's a really positive investment that speaks to the way that Hilton thinks about all employees, whether they're in the corporate office or they're on, on property.
Dan Ryan: Um, as we start, you know, and we've looked back on everything, unlike your journey and where you've come and, and you know, all the great initiatives and to be a part of the growth of Hilton and also canopy and the other lifestyle brands, um, as you're kind of taking today, looking forward, what's exciting.
You most about the future right now, from your perspective?
Barry Sullivan: So it's kind of interesting canopy. We have one more hotel to open this year, which is Toronto, which is going to be spectacular. It's really a beautiful, beautiful property. Um, that's that is the last hotel that's in the current, not, I'm not gonna say pipeline, but it was in the, in the [01:02:00] existing pipeline before the last two years happened.
We're about to start, um, several new projects. So there's a bit of a gap. So the canopy focus. Now, if you go to the website and look at the development problem, it's all happening in Europe and, and Africa until we start to ramp back up. My big excitement now is, is, is doing the similar thing for tempo, which was launched in, um, early 20.
Um, And bringing that whole lifestyle brand in that's geared to a different audience. Um, using lessons learned that we did on canopy, not necessarily specific ones about things, but just the approach to launching a brand. Um, and I think that that for me, um, for launching, um, canopy, then motto and now tempo and the, the pipeline for tempo is, is.
Really [01:03:00] remarkable it's it's um, we'll have, we'll have our first one open, um, in your neighborhood, um, early next year or mid next year. And then, um, we have two more that are going that, uh, Nashville is under construction. Um, Delmar is just about ready to start construction. Louisville has started construction.
So there's that, that gap of the last two years where canopy finished and now, um, tempo is kind of stepping in to take that place. And then, um, the, the domestic canopies will start to pick up again, um, in another, um, we'll, we'll start to have more focus on those, but right now I think we've got upwards of 30 projects that we are, or will be working on.
Um, and, and many of them were ones that went on. On on hold that are now, um, resurfacing, but there's a, there's a lot of interest in tempo. And so it's, you know, it's really [01:04:00] exciting to, um, ride that wave, which is slightly different than, than canopy. But as I said, borrowing from a lot of the lessons we learned in, in how to launch a brand, but, um, tempo is really decided, uh, designed towards a different audience and a different mindset of travelers.
Like we talked about with, um, what defines lifestyle, well, what, what is, um, who are you, who who's your customer mm-hmm and when, when we, when launching a new brand, um, people spend a lot of time digging into, all right, well, what, what kind of travel are we trying to? Is this a young business person are these young vacationers.
And so there's a lot of effort that was, was spent by lots of different, um, consultants to really define, um, who we're designing for. What kind of, how much do they make? What, what brands are important to them do? Fitness is really important to them. Um, uh, health healthy, eating, healthy [01:05:00] living is important.
How can we help those people that have, um, are dedicated to lots of aspects of the, their life that are important to them that are not work related? How do we help them maintain that, um, while they're traveling. Um, and so that's been very interesting to, to, to see the, all of the work that went in to define that.
And then, okay, now we know who we're defining for, what are we going to design and, and, and give them, and how much flexibility do we need to maintain in it while. While maintaining a thread of consistency between each property, so that, um, when you check into a tempo in California, you're able to have the same experience, um, from service and, and accommodations, but your room, shouldn't your hotel, nor your room should look the same as it did.
New York city shouldn't look like Los Angeles, there are two different. So it's [01:06:00] building building that into it, but also, um, building a, doing it in an economical way that, that owners, um, that can, that, that respond to what the owners have to spend and, and where we're, we're putting these hotels. Um, it's
Dan Ryan: been proven time and time again, that if a company large or small can create a well thought out brand, and then they have a brand, it drives so much value for all of the stakeholders.
And branding is like, Uh, I mean, I'm just awestruck. Every time I see a new brand come out that has legs and goes. Um, what do you think the biggest lesson learned in launching one brand and then bringing it over to another? Um, I impacted you the most, like if, I don't know if, if you could say, oh, this is what I really learned in launching a brand, and this is what I'm gonna bring caring forward.
Barry Sullivan: Well, when I started with [01:07:00] canopy, I didn't have anything to compare it to. So we were designing around a certain, a certain traveler business traveler, a vacation traveler and decidedly, because of where, um, of, uh, of. Of where the hotel was going to be priced. They were geared towards an, an audience that had X amount of money to spend on this, whether or not they were there for business, uh, pleasure or whatever it happened to be.
So, um, and that, and, and canopy obviously sits higher on our brand stack than, than tempo does. So taking those same sensibilities and demographics and the, uh, the definers of that demographic and building things into those into tempo that are done in a different way than were done for canopy, because we're, um, uh, the travelers that we are, um, courting in tempo, Are very health conscious.
So, um, we've aligned [01:08:00] with, um, Bluestone lane. So they're, they're doing our, um, they're partnering us for F and B. We've got a great fitness center. We've put some equipment in fitness centers. It's not just treadmills anymore. We've got, um, different kinds of, of, uh, workout equipment. We are, of course, got Peloton, thera gun, um, other things that are much more, um, that are wellness focused above and beyond what you'd normally see in a, in a quote unquote fitness center, which are usually ellipticals treadmills and, and a stretching area.
So again, seeing that, identifying that aspect of, of importance for the guests is wellness. They wanna be able to, um, work out in a similar way than they do at home. And not necessarily having to go to the gym down the street or, yeah. So yeah, there's a gold gym. Um, it's 10 minutes away. You can catch an Uber.
That's not what we're, we're trying to do. And so, um, filtered water on [01:09:00] every floor, again, trying to reduce the usage with water bottles, doing both amenities in the showers and things, things that are important, sustainability things, things that, um, that, um, provide a good night's sleep. That give them a place to work.
We not only have, uh, a drive entity, but we also have a work desk in the, in the living room for yo. See, he'll be very, very happy souls. Yeah. um, um, you know, focusing on the shower. So we've, we've done some things in reimagining the, of a standard guest that are, um, that are geared towards how this particular travel traveler, um, travels and wants to wants their day to go so wonderful.
Um, so we've done it so that, so launching two different brands that have a different customer and then motto was, um, It has, it has kind of a blending of sensibilities between canopy and, and [01:10:00] tempo, but their, their big focus is that they are smaller rooms. So, um, we've made a very, very efficient, um, room.
We've done four different types of rooms that connect, um, so that, um, Mono's focus is really being in the very best location in a city. Um, so, uh, mono Chelsea just opened, um, earlier this year, um, and we have one at times square that's in, in the works also. So it's, um, they're, they're in great locations and it.
It's about having a comfortable room, but not necessarily having a big room because, um, those travelers are more interested in going out and seeing the city. They want to be in a good location. And the, the room is it's not secondary, but the, the size is less important. And, and because we have different types of rooms that all connect, [01:11:00] and now you can, can book those connecting rooms online.
So we have a room that, um, that has a Murphy bed. So it can be your entertainment area in the Murphy bed can be up and you can have that connect to two rooms on either side where. There's a queen bed or there's bunk beds. So it allows families or, uh, groups that want to come to, uh, wanna travel together to have this, um, kind of cooperative space that they can use, um, when they are in the rooms.
But then it's in a great location and it's got great coffee and, and, um, nice things to eat, but it's about the location. Um, and then
Dan Ryan: if you think about at, at Hilton in particular, or actually any large company, but let's just think about Hilton in launching a new brand. Where do you find out who like, from where from, from where within Hilton, does this demographic or psychographic or [01:12:00] target customer or target guest come from?
Barry Sullivan: Um, there are people much smarter than me. higher up that that are, um, evaluating our brands, our demographics, and they're, they're really always looking for a white space in our own, uh, enterprise mm-hmm . So, um, there's, um, a new brand that you'll see coming out. Um, one, probably two focus service brands coming out in the future because we've identified internally within our own company that there's an, um, under serviced, uh, market segment.
And so we'll pivot it to, and I will say that is the one thing that, that Chris has said has always been, um, pretty passionate about is that he's always said it's better for us to grow these brands on our own, um, versus, uh, [01:13:00] buying another brand. Um, and, and, um, And trying to integrate it, because if it's not a good fit, then you can spend a lot of time trying to fix somebody else's problems.
And you can inherit stuff that you may, may not know. So it's always been, um, his, I think his, his approaches let's just grow them ourselves. And so there's a little bit longer lead up to that because it does take the research of all right. Well, who are we designing for? What and what are the owners want out of this?
What are the customers want out of this? How are we gonna marry those two? And how are we going to do it in a way. That is different than the brands that surround it. So we, we, we, um, we don't ever wanna cannibalize our own. There's no, there's no growth in pulling a customer from Hilton garden in over to Hampton or whatever it is.
If you're moving them within it, if you're gonna build [01:14:00] something new, it's got, you've gotta the, or the objective is, is to attract new customers to Hilton that then become, as you noted a loyal Hilton. Um, a customer that as your, um, travel needs and your budget change, you have a place to go within our brand stack and you can slowly move up and move into different categories.
You suddenly have a family and you wanna do extended stay. And a home with suites is more, um, is, is, um, better for you than a Hampton Inn or something. So we, we're trying to not be all things for all people, but to offer, um, offer brands that are specific in their, uh, their customer demographic.
Dan Ryan: Yeah.
Earlier I forgot exactly what we were talking about. You mentioned that something that excited you was, it's like a clean sheet of paper. I wrote down tabula, Rossa. Yeah. Like a clean slate. And then to hear the people that are smarter than [01:15:00] all of us up there identifying where this new white space is that then we can kind of build.
And I've always found in everything I do whenever. I feel fully in control of like what's going on around me and everything is where it needs to be. And I have that clean white space or the clean, um, it could be something as simple as an inbox or a huge clean whiteboard. It's like the ultimate creativity to really build something and mm-hmm and get to that brand.
And, uh, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I think.
Barry Sullivan: What's also interesting is when those brands then want to go elsewhere in the world, everything that everything that we build usually starts in, in north America and then, okay, well, if it, if it's going to, to go to central America and Cala, what is, what are the, what are the cultural norms that would, we need to, we may need to address in a different way to make that brand as applicable in lifestyle there.
And same [01:16:00] thing with China or Europe or Africa, there's always some you have to be aware of, of, and because we're in all over the world, we were already aware of those things, but things. Would resonate with you or I here may not in Mexico city. And so, but there's a core element of it that would work in Mexico city, but it's the, it's the, the, the tweaking to make sure that it it's appropriate.
And as on brand for that particular country, as it can be, I
Dan Ryan: love it all sounds so exciting and the growth and the vision and just, I don't know, just being such a great place to work. I'm really excited to see where you're going. So now I have a, I have a question where we we'll go back in time to your get you're getting in, uh, your first getting you're first, getting your desk at, uh, the university of Southern California and the school of architecture.
I can't remember the name of the building anymore. Harris hall, Harris [01:17:00] hall. There we go. So you're checking into getting into Harris hall. You're you're there. You're getting your drafting table and you're you're brush and your slot, your rulers, and. Your straight edges, everything all together, but then you, the Barry I'm talking to right now, teleports back to your, the younger version of yourself.
What advice do you have for. Stick
Barry Sullivan: it out it will get better. It will get better. You talk. Um, yeah, that's a, it's a great analogy. It's almost like you're, you're reaching back in time with your hand to, uh, either give a pat on the back or, or say, you know, you know, those, those long night you mentioned, you know, long, long nights until 4:00 AM drafting or whatever it is.
And I didn't have to get up at four 30 to go rowing, but well, you had to get up that early because there's no water nearby. So you had to go to the beach somewhere. So you had to,
Dan Ryan: you had to, no, we, you went down to the LA Harbor where, where all of the, uh, all those container ships are all backed up and where they come and get offloaded.
[01:18:00] We would row next to those things. It was disgusting. I saw dead bodies. The water was gross. It was, uh, it was gnarly, but we got to get up early to go down to San Pedro.
Barry Sullivan: Yeah. So I think, I think that that's what I've realized is, um, you know, when you're in the midst of it, you, you can be pretty myopic about.
Oh, it's this, and this is horrible and up late. And I don't see how this is gonna work out. And I've got another final on some other day, but you know, my other mantra is that things always work out even when you don't think they are. And sometimes it, it takes not weeks or days, but it takes years for it to, to work out.
But, you know, if, if I hadn't gone through all of the things that I had, the good and what I thought was bad at the time I wouldn't be here. I think all of those things lead us to where we are. Um, and they, they, um, form our opinions. They form our personality. They, um, give us insights on, on how to work with people and how to get through things.
So. [01:19:00] You know, there's, there's no bad experiences. There are just experiences that, that you think are bad at the time, but you, you you'll, you could always pull something from them later in life. And if, if they were a part of the dots that bring you to where I am, then I can't be, I can't be upset with them or, or push them away because they were all part of what it took to get here.
So, um,
Dan Ryan: and some in some small part of that, let's bring it all right. Back toda hall and
Barry Sullivan: Mrs.
Dan Ryan: Madrigal and Mrs. Madrigal and, um, Beachwood canyon. So, um, Barry, how can people get in touch with you if they want to reach out?
Barry Sullivan: Um, it's um, it's a very, very highly secretive, um, email address. It's Barry dot Sullivan Hilton mm-hmm um, so they're, I'm welcome to, to, uh, take any emails from anybody.
Dan Ryan: Great. And then, uh, we'll also [01:20:00] put your link in there. And then I think I'll put the, some information of Hilton up there in the liner notes as well, so they can find out what's going on that way as well. Yep. Um,
Barry Sullivan: yeah, I'm on, I'm on LinkedIn as well. So, um, we'll put it all in there. If anybody's reaching out to me on LinkedIn, please let reference this because I get lots of invites from all over the world that from people that I don't know.
So if it, if, if it's specific about this conversation, if they can, um, throw that, connect that.in it, that would be helpful cuz it'll it'll it might be the difference between accepting or not
Dan Ryan: right. Well, uh, Barry, I just wanna say thank you so much. I'm grateful for our time together. And this has just been a, a wonderfully enjoyable, um, An educational conversation for me.
So
Barry Sullivan: thank you. Thank you. And for me too, I'm, I'm happy to do it and wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was gonna be.
Dan Ryan: that's what everyone
Barry Sullivan: says. Oh, great. Not on your part on my part. I just, [01:21:00] and, and you, and I know the, the little bit of, of logistics we went through before this all started, so yeah. Um, anyway, I'm happy to help.
It's always nice to see you and I'll look forward to seeing you in person before too long. Perfect.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, I should be down there pretty soon. And also, um, most importantly, well, not necessarily most importantly, but very much importantly, thanking our listeners because this is just all growing by, uh, word of mouth.
So if this conversation. Evolved your idea on what hospitality is and how the built environment can help convey hospitality to others. Um, please pass it along to a friend where we're growing every single week and it's really exciting and it's all not possible without you. So thank you everyone. And we will see you next time.
Barry Sullivan: Thanks very much, Dan.
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