Defining Hospitality

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Dan Ryan: Today's guest. Is the 2019 surface travel awards finalist in 2021, she won the gold key for best lobby and luxury for the Capella at Bangkok, she brings an unparalleled amount of knowledge to each and every new project she has over 25 years of experience in luxury hotel and residential design.
She's a keynote speaker, which I'm really excited to hear about. She is a principal at bamo in San Francisco, ladies and gentle. Ann Wilkinson. Welcome in.
Anne Wilkinson: Hello. [00:01:00] Great to see you, Dan. It's so good
Dan Ryan: to see you and thank you for, uh, for being a part of this defining hospitality thing that's happened. Um, I'm just grateful for your time and your perspective, so thank you.
Anne Wilkinson: Yeah, it's awesome to be here. I I'm looking forward to our conversation. Yes.
Dan Ryan: Um, so having had my start in San Francisco. Many many moons ago. Um, bamo has always been a fixture there, um, especially in like such a, a small, but really important market in the ho in the hospitality world, um, from a design perspective.
And obviously you do a lot of residential as well, but what do you think. Was this the, the symbiosis or Genesis of having bamo and being such a part of San Francisco and like, what was your experience going there? Starting there and then still being there. And [00:02:00] I don't know, what's, what's kind of exciting about you where you are right now.
Anne Wilkinson: that is a great question. And, um, you know, I. I launched my career in New York city, but very briefly I worked for a theater design consultant there, um, and loved it. But, uh, friends and boyfriend called out from San Francisco and, and pulled me out to the west coast. Um, and I knew that I wanted to be here eventually.
I love this city so much. Um, and you know, bamo, uh, is. Was brand new, basically when I joined. And so I was able to get in on the ground floor and really kind of grow with the firm. Um, and I think they, they. Became the best place to work in San Francisco and were the best place to work in San Francisco for many, many years.
And, you know, uh, [00:03:00] things change things evolve, and there are new firms now, but, um, for most of my time here, there's nowhere else I wanted to work. There was nowhere else doing the caliber of projects, um, around the world. Uh, and, and with such design focus. Uh, so. For me, I've always loved being here. And the fact that I had four principles to learn from not just one, um, meant that I got this, this, these little different experiences every year we would switch around, I would work with Jerry and then Michael, and then Pamela.
Um, so I got all these different perspectives and these different strengths and, uh, it, it's kind of interesting how my. Style. It has a little element of each of them. Um, and, and so I like to think that I sort of taking them to the [00:04:00] next next level, if you will.
Dan Ryan: Hmm. Um, one of the topics that I really enjoy talking about, and I'm so glad you brought that up, cuz I wasn't planning on it, but um, It's how we all learn from those before us who are either there currently, or from long ago.
But I find it very incredible that to have four principles to learn so much from, um, I'm curious about that. Like, how would you as an, a nascent designer, new to San Francisco? How would you split your time? How, how would that work to learn from each of these really incredible mentors?
Anne Wilkinson: Um, there were times when I was working for more than one of them.
And, and it was challenging. And I actually, for quite a few years, I worked on residential with Michael Booth, uh, very closely. Um, as one [00:05:00] of my coworkers said I was his dog's body. basically I did everything. I did anything and everything. I even, I would even like fill out the check. And put it in front of him to sign like that's how old school it was.
Um, but it was such a great, uh, learning experience and a great sort of base, uh, for doing hospitality, especially luxury hospitality later. And it, it puts you in a certain mindset as well. Um, but you do, you have to learn how to juggle, uh, I mean, I, you, I think of them as clients, right? The principles were essentially my clients.
And so it's sort of like juggling. Now you ju you juggle different client expectations, different client working styles, different, um, processes for projects. Uh, so it was, it was very much the same back then. And you. I kind of would cross [00:06:00] pollinate between them, you know, so Jerry has a much more architectural focus and, and Michael is just Mr.
Elegant and Pamela is just so creative, unbelievably creative. And so you could kind of mix and match between them and, and, um, you know, I think they, they enjoyed that cross pollination as well.
Dan Ryan: Hmm. Yeah, because I often find that the, the mentors often learn just as much from the mentees. Maybe not just as much, but they definitely learn a lot because you bring a fresh perspective in which I think is so necessary and not just you.
Yes. But also everyone in that. And then, so curiously, how are you in effect taking that experience that you had with those four incredible humans and, um, Paying it forward, if you will, with your, with your new team as you guys grow and get ready for [00:07:00] the next phase.
Anne Wilkinson: Yeah, that's a great question. And it's, it's been, um, kind of my new mission is, is really growing the, the next generation and growing my team and, um, We, we have such a great time working together.
I think my, my style, because I did grow up in the office, so I grew up as, as a coworker with them for many years. So my style's really more collaborative. And, um, I think that it's also okay. Truth be told I kind of micromanage , but, um, But it is more about, we all have a voice, you know, and, and I'm not a dictator.
Uh, but I do make the final decision, but, but I want them to express and, and have an opportunity to, to fight for what [00:08:00] they think is right. And, and it's a discussion. And, you know, sometimes that discussion leads down to two explorations and then we'll, um, make a decision together. Um, but I think keeping them inspired, keeping them, um, uh, giving them enough that they're.
They've bought into it, you know, mm-hmm, , they have some ownership in the process and in the product, uh, is really important to me. And, um, I think I've been really successful at that because my, you know, my, my team kind of immediate team is just, we're so tight knit and we're such a happy group working together.
It's been, been awesome. Well, I,
Dan Ryan: and I think that's a great example because. You mentioned not too long ago at the beginning of the, just the caliber of projects that you guys have worked on over your tenure there. And I'm sure we'll continue [00:09:00] to work on and all of the accolades it's, it's really incredible.
And it's not just projects in San Francisco or California, the United States, like you're talking incredibly, um, Just celebrated topics all over the world, different cultures and it's, and I think that's really a great way to kind of segue into the, as far as how you make your team feel happy and everything else.
Like how do, how do you translate that into those projects in hospitality at
Anne Wilkinson: large? You mean, how do we, how do we make the clients.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Or the people or the guests going through there, like what, ah, there's a certain thread of, of hospitality that's or how you're making, I heard you just say how you make others feel happy and this and that.
Mm-hmm like, how are you, how do you take what you have on, in a small scale and apply it to all those other incredible projects around the world? Yeah. How
Anne Wilkinson: do you define [00:10:00] hospitality? How do you define hospitality? Um, well I think at its core, hospitality is about caring, right? Um, it is taking care of people that come to stay with you, showing them that, You're gonna take care of their needs.
You're gonna make them feel comfortable. You're gonna make you're, you're welcoming them. and then kind of building on that base. I think hospitality has this incredible opportunity to really lift people out of their everyday experience You can create this immersive world that, brings people joy on multiple levels, whether that is a warm social interaction with the hotel staff or opportunity to connect with other guests or, um, you know, making sure that everything.
[00:11:00] Uh, functions well and, and is intuitive the way findings intuitive. So, you know, you make people feel, um, like. They're not stupid. They know where to go, they can figure it out on their own. Um, and then of course, design, you have to have a, an incredibly compelling, wonderful design, um, a, a fantastic food and beverage culinary experience.
Um, so you have this social, psychological, uh, uh, physical sensory experiences, and then kind of topping that off are, um, This idealistic sense where, uh, you know, people feel good about their choice. They feel good that they've selected something that, uh, reflects their, their style or their stature or their value set, um, whether it's sustainable or it's a, you know, uh, premier brand or, um, it just has some [00:12:00] cool, fun hip factor to it.
Um, so at. Level at each stage, the more you kind of, um, reinforce that positive feeling, it just sort of spirals up and you put people in a frame of mind to experience life in a richer and more meaningful way. Hmm. And when you think about it, you know, when you're in a good mood, you're optimistic, um, you are more sociable, you're more AP to strike up a conversation.
Um, you're just more open to new experiences and that, that is where you create those memories in hospitality. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And I. You said something at the beginning of that, which is like, I think with respect to way finding which, which made me think, um, it's intuitive. Right, right. There's this intuitive feeling that you have, but I find, especially with way finding is if it's done so [00:13:00] well, it it's almost, it's not noticed.
Right. It's like if you do it really, really well. Yeah. And then, so in a way it's like you, you miss out on. Kind of sh other people really recognizing that and, and improving it because you're just kind of going with the flow. Typically I find that people only really notice way finding when it's not right or wrong and, uh, and then there's frustration comes up and then, um, but I also really like how, okay, so you have that kind of intuitive nature, but then there's the intentional nature of what you're trying to design and what you're trying to.
What the end goal or the thesis is of what you're trying to do. Yeah. So how do you find balance between those, with your team and on the, on the projects that you're on? So how do you find balance between just being completely natural and intuitive, but also totally intentional mm-hmm
Anne Wilkinson: I think, [00:14:00] uh, I have to say at the luxury level, it.
It's hard because you have to check so many boxes for luxury, where on a lifestyle hotel projects, you don't have to have quite so many bells and whistles. Um, and you can do things that are maybe a little more out of the box. Um, but what we have done on my projects more recently is, uh, we. We actually spend more time in concept and we have a, a like super strong concept that is.
That's simple. That is, um, well defined, uh, that has a lot of, um, direction as to what's our approach to lighting. What's our approach to materials. What's our approach to details. Um, what kind of, uh, formality level are we trying to hit? [00:15:00] Um, and, and it just becomes this roadmap. For the project that it makes it so much easier for the team to kind of fall in line and, and know where they're going.
And, um, so it sort of streamlines the process. Um, but at the same time, you know, you don't want every space to be the same. So you have to kind of give different elements to each. That make it unique. So, so it's, it's not just a flat one dimensional experience. Um, but there is kind of a thread that, that carries through a common thread that ties the project together.
Dan Ryan: Okay. On the luxury side and this idea, checking a lot of boxes, I'm always very intrigued by that because. Sometimes the boxes you have to check to be considered luxury are very nonsensical. Like you need so many drawers in a, in their, in, in a [00:16:00] room or you need, I don't even know what they are, but there's to get that five diamond or whatever it there's, there's these very prescriptive, um, needs.
That that you must have. Yeah. But often times I find
Anne Wilkinson: like who, who uses crown molding anymore.
Dan Ryan: right. Right. So, and, and I feel like in a way, luxury for whatever it means, and you can have as many boxes as you want to check it. It really comes down to, I was talking to someone, I, I was like, it's like how the Supreme court ruled on pornography.
It's like, you know it, when you see it so I'm just like, I understand with luxury, you know, it, when you see it or feel it, but also like, yeah. What, aside from crown molding, what are some of the, the boxes that you need to check, but might not be worth wa no, I guess everything's worthwhile, but what, what, what boxes frustrate you that you have to check when you're, when you're really working your [00:17:00] roadmap?
Right,
Anne Wilkinson: right. Um, I mean, there, there are certain dimensions you have to hit for showers, say, you know, where, where. Maybe, um, the shower experience would be just as nice if you made it slightly. I don't know, longer. What have you, um, or you have to have, uh, there was always a requirement. You have to have the makeup mirror mounted to the wall.
I mean, come on. those things always get broken. They always look like crap in the end. Uh, and, and actually some of the brands are starting to pull away from that. Thank goodness. Um, and just all the stuff you have to have at the bedside, uh, that, you know, you don't necessarily have to have, if you're a lifestyle hotel, you can do something a little more chic and a little more minimal.
Um, and you know, it may not be as comfortable. So there is a trade up. And, and I think [00:18:00] that's why a lot of the luxury brands stick with those standards is because they know what makes their guests comfortable and what their guests expect. Um, so I think, yeah, there's boxes to check. I think designers and I know I have, I'm sure.
Uh, my, my cohorts have as well have started to challenge some of those box. And really say, you know, it's this could, could we do it a different way? You know, is this really necessary?
Dan Ryan: Yeah, I, I agree. And I like where it's all going, because right now everyone's kind of rethinking what everything means from staying longer to, to leisure, whatever everyone's calling it to, you know, just existing for a longer time in the.
In another location. Yeah. Um, and maybe that's also a good place to go, as you think about, [00:19:00] you know, your stewardship coming in as a leader in the company and helping plot a new course, like your, your, your opinion direction and vision matters a lot now. Yeah. Um, how are, like, how, how are you taking bamo.
into this new air, new world of luxury. Um, and I, and you mentioned sustainability and like, where do you see your vision over the next five to 10 years?
Anne Wilkinson: I think that's the question on everyone's mind, including mine right now. Um, and, uh, I don't have, I don't have a full and final answer. I have, I have ideas, right? Mm-hmm I have some thoughts that I am kicking around and, and we actually are at this moment trying to drill down on exactly what what's the next, next step?
Where are we headed? Um, but I think, [00:20:00] uh, things have been going really well to date and, um, Everyone's kind of excited about the future here. We we've been, we've been in a funny phase with the pandemic mm-hmm , but we're back in the office now. I think people are energized about being back together. Um, we're starting to, to find our corporate culture again.
And do things as a company, do things as a group and start to pull us back into this cohesive, uh, office that we used to be. And scattered a bit with the pandemic. So, so that's step one is kind of get our internal corporate culture back to a place where we feel like we're, we're all clicking together.
Mm-hmm um, and you know, I am. I am so incredibly blessed. Dan, my team is amazing. I mean, the people that I've worked with for some of them [00:21:00] 20 years, honestly. So, um, the fact that they're, they're still there and they're still doing amazing work. And, um, I, I, I don't wanna lose any of them. Right. So the goal is to just keep, keep us all working together as a cohesive unit.
Um, and, and. You know, see where, see where we go and, and chase bigger and better things. It's really interesting. We, um, we did this project for two venture capital firms. Mm-hmm um, We called it, our sexy office project, um, because it's an office project, but it it's kind of cool and kind of fun. And, uh, it was their, their individual office spaces.
And then they had a joint space that they used for events for collaborative, um, meetings, et cetera. And it's in the ferry building in San Francisco. So [00:22:00] amazing, amazing historic building. Um, Used to be the biggest port in the world, other than London, because before the bridge was built, everything came in by boat.
So the ferry building, you know, was where everyone shuttled through. So just an incredible history to that building and beautiful views of the bay. Um, and the bay bridge. Right. Um, so there are event spaces in this historic, uh, front room that we couldn't, we couldn't put anything on the walls. We couldn't really, um, do much more than paint and put furniture in there.
Um, but it was, it was so fun and the both offices. Loved what we did there, there, uh, kind of different facets of the same industry. And we, we took that and we were able to sort of channel their brand into a physical form. They'd never had their, had their own [00:23:00] offices before. Um, at least not sort of designed for them.
It was a bit more generically designed. So, um, they were, they were super happy. They've hired us to do other projects for their. Other, uh, developments they've referred us to other clients. So suddenly we're back into office design again. Wow. Which is funny because the office, when I started had done some law firm work and then that sort of trickled out and we, we focused more on hospitality and residential, but I think hospitality is resonating more and more with, um, all different kinds of.
Of market. So office being one healthcare, of course, being another senior living. Um, so it's interesting where that's headed.
Dan Ryan: I love that. You're saying that too, because in a, so many of these conversations that we've been having, um, when I say it's the collective weed, just guests on [00:24:00] the, on the podcast, um, in, especially in these larger, I wouldn't consider.
Bamo a, like a massive interdisciplinary firm. Like you guys are a really awesome we're niche firm. right. But it's like, I, I would say it's like much more boutique and whenever I walk in there, I just feel warmth and it's beautifully lit and, and small, but it's not like one of these, you know, 50. Floors in an office building kind of, yeah, huge architectural firm that gets into hospitals and this and this and this, and every, from aviation to hospitals to you name it.
But what's interesting is in many of the conversations that I'm having, that I've been having with them. They're bringing the hospitality folks into the kickoff meetings of all these other meetings. So it means that we're doing something right. Yeah. On the hospitality side. And what do you think is the most right about that?
Like why, why are, [00:25:00] why are they bringing you in? Like what, what do you, in your opinion, what is hospitality? How is it helping these venture capital firms or other offices or other spaces, um, exceed their client's expectations?
Anne Wilkinson: I think everybody is focused on bringing people back to the office, creating these environments, these spaces that are compelling, um, that foster connection between people, um, that, that are uplifting, you know, that, that are.
Fun. They're hip they're. They have a, a style attitude. They express the company, um, culture. And that, that sort of strengthens a sense of identity for, um, not just the company itself, but the people who work there. Right. Uh, and. Venture capital is interesting because they do have clients that they entertain, you know, there are meetings, but they also may have, [00:26:00] um, evening events or dinner parties, et cetera.
And, uh, they do a lot of, uh, collaborations in, in teams. Um, there's a lot of, uh, just informal meetings and things. Um, and I think. Yeah, we're just, we're, we're sort of wired up to create something that has a look and the style that that is, um, maybe more immersive, more, uh, I
Dan Ryan: think it's also a, I think it's also a draw, right?
You're you're yeah. Everyone's trying to get creative with bringing people back to the office, but if you think about it, yeah. Everyone loves traveling and going on vacation and new experience. Right. Right. So it's almost as if like how in this desire to bring people back to collaborate, how, how can we take the best of what [00:27:00] everyone loves about travel and almost create this magnetism?
Within the office place, cuz so many, you know, office designs that are out there, it's almost like you're phoning in and you're working. It's almost like the workplace systems are kind of what driving, um, the, the overall layout and design and the pallet of, of what's going on. I feel like something's flipped.
That's really interesting. And I hadn't thought about it that way.
Anne Wilkinson: Yeah. It's become a gathering space in many ways.
Dan Ryan: And there's something that you said in, in your explanation there that made me feel as if. There's almost like this, um, acceptance that people are not gonna be back full time all the time, because there is this hybridization of, of what work is becoming.
Right. So how do we make it that much more impactful and enjoyable when the people are
Anne Wilkinson: back? Yeah, exactly.
Dan Ryan: And then, um, So in the, I feel like the ferry building has gone through so many different iterations [00:28:00] over, you know, the 20, however many years that I've been there and they've done some really cool stuff.
Um, where, where are these events based? I'm very curious in that building.
Anne Wilkinson: It's on the second floor. Yeah. So the first floor is all shops and restaurants. Um, slanted door was there, uh, you know, all these unbelievably niche. Uh, fabulous esoteric shops for cheese and wine and yes, olive oil and, um, you know, baskets.
And what have you dried mushrooms? Oh my God. They're dried mushroom . Mm it's like foodie, Mecca.
Dan Ryan: yeah. There's always so many cool things in there. Um, yeah, for sure. Um, and then, so how often are they using these event spaces? Are they for themselves? Are they for like product launches? That it sounds like cuz that's a pretty big space up there if I remember correctly.
Anne Wilkinson: It's um, so it's not the, you, you might be thinking of the main [00:29:00] atrium space. Maybe they're actually in like behind the door in the offices. Uh, so the events face actually looks out on Justin Herman Plaza. Uh, so it looks out where the cable car turnaround is and the Embarcadero, uh, is right out there. So it doesn't look at the water.
Okay.
Dan Ryan: And the dress in Herman Plaza is that that's the one with the big sculpture on the north side of the ferry building on the, yeah. Other side of the Embarcadero. Is that where you two played in like 1984 or six? Is that right? They played an outdoor concert out. Oh, okay. I feel like it did.
Anne Wilkinson: I was not there at that time,
Dan Ryan: nor was I, but I I've seen it on video a couple times.
Yeah. Um, so with your new stewardship heading into the future, um, as a, as a leader at bamo, um, with all these great initiatives of just focusing on [00:30:00] culture, getting, keeping people, bringing, attracting new people, working on these great projects all over, um, What do you think based on where we are now and from your experience, like, what's it, what are you most excited about in the next 12 months that you're, that you're seeing out there?
Hmm.
Anne Wilkinson: It is so busy. Uh, I'm just, uh, I'm trying to keep my head above water. mm-hmm um, and, and part of that is, uh, that I'm, I'm doing what I've always done. And then, then there is the whole, like burning the ropes of running a firm and, and plotting out the future of it. Um, so it's kind of playing the balance of, of finding time to do all of that.
Um, but I'm. I don't know. I'm excited that we we're, we're starting to approach projects a little bit differently. Uh, one of the things that I [00:31:00] launched in the pandemic was, um, an initiative. I called Bama green. Oh yeah. Better word. Not that creative. Um, where, you know, I. I had a bit of an identity crisis in 2020, because I wasn't traveling.
I was sitting at home in my bedroom working , um, which is, it's a lovely bedroom. It's a nice big room. It was a nice setup, but it's just like, who am I? You know, I don't talk to people in person anymore. Um, it was really, really challenging and I kind of, uh, stepped back and thought about. Where's the world headed.
Where are we? What's important. Um, what can I do to make a difference? And one of the thoughts that just popped into my head was why are we not doing any, any kind of resilient or [00:32:00] sustainable design in our office? We've done some, we actually did a house that is, uh, lead platinum. Oh, wow. The greenest house in America.
It's uh, called Tomala. T a H M a H L a H and incredible project, incredibly inspiring client members. Where is that? It's in, it's in the bay area. Okay. Um, I think it's in the south bay, uh, and has gotten a lot of press, um, funny enough, like a year after it opened. Not right when it opened. Um, but yeah, so, so I thought, why are, why can we not.
Push that more. And so I started doing some research into it and I had a lead, uh, uh, certification mm-hmm , but I've never done a lead project. Um, and I've always had that as a, an aspiration. Um, and [00:33:00] so I started. Coordinating with a couple of my senior people who are also interested in it. And, um, we, we put together, uh, just like a, a guide for our whole office of things to think about as you're, you know, um, trying to, uh, look at ways to be more sustainable.
Um, Uh, that don't cost more money, you know, they actually cost less money. Uh mm-hmm upfront, um, and certainly less in the long run. Um, and I, I think it's, it's just something that we all need to get on our radar and I'd love to see that, not just for bamo, but everyone. Um, cause I think, uh, you know, we, we all need to, to jump on that bandwagon sooner rather than later.
Dan Ryan: I agree. And I gotta say on the, on the lead side of things, I really love how. The launch of that in [00:34:00] 2000 or when it, I don't know when it first became super popular and part of the zeitgeist, like two th mid two thousands, 2005, 6, 7, 8, somewhere in there. Mm-hmm um, I got a lead, uh, I became a lead accredit professional Uhhuh, and it helped change our supply chains and like find other materials that you're right.
It wasn't yeah. More of a, of an expense. Those products were there. And then like with the leadership of, of countries, states like California, like you, they said, okay, you can't have added Eure from Anaheim in any panel. And then soon you just couldn't even get the old kind of panels. They were just were not available anymore.
Yeah. But one of the things I was really disheartened by is lead tends to. Focus, mostly on the core and shell mm-hmm and then ongoing operations, but not so much the FFF E all the stuff that like we all interact. And I don't mean we as in the professionals, but like, The guests, the people walking through it, the people, workers, all the things that [00:35:00] everyone's really touching and feeling interacting with.
Yeah. It doesn't really apply to that. And there's been a couple of new, really cool new initiatives, like mind click is one that comes to mind. Yep. And, and others where it's like, they're recognizing that if a building lasts for a hundred years yep. The FF and E that goes in and out of it probably has more of a profound impact on, um, The environment then the building of the building.
So why aren't we measuring that stuff? And I think through the efforts of like you and, and, um, mind click and then a whole, you know, other ones, there's, there's a lot of really earnest work going into that to like, how do we measure it? And then how can we affect change? So what, what are you seeing in that?
Anne Wilkinson: Yeah. So, um, we actually worked on, uh, a project in Costa Rica. That's in development now. And, um, one of the eye opening [00:36:00] things we found out is that Costa Rica doesn't allow you to. Throw away furniture or get rid of furniture when you wanna remodel. Um, so as a, a hotel property, um, you have to find a way to recycle or repurpose it, or you can.
Have it stored, but you have to pay for it to be stored, but you can't just throw it away. Um, so it puts a whole different emphasis on how you design that furniture. Um, and it reminds me of something that I came across as I was doing some research for my keynote, which is this notion of emotionally durable design.
And it's this idea that you, um, you have these. Products, these things that you keep, uh, forever, because you love them because they're, they, they look good, they [00:37:00] feel good. Um, you have an emotional connection to them because you, you just like them. Right. Uh, so it goes to that sort of, um, intuitive functionality.
Um, you know, what. Makes people fall in love with objects or pieces of furniture. What have you? Um, so to the extent that we can design that in, I think so much the better for our clients so much the better for, uh, the world. Maybe not for furniture manufacturers , but I think that, you know, you would, you would adapt, right?
And you would start doing things that maybe cost more upfront. Because they're gonna last because they have to last, well,
Dan Ryan: I would, I would say on the, one of the things I love about providing furniture to hotels is yeah. More often than not that stuff's not getting thrown away. Yeah. And you go through these conversations now, like with owners, [00:38:00] it's oftentimes when they liquidate rooms, they will go to.
A liquidation center or they'll get repurposed or resold. Yeah. Um, sometimes they, sometimes they just go to the landfill, but it's not a lot of extra effort to have it go to a habitat for humanity or sell it to someone else who's renovating. So it, you know, while the warrant you're way past whatever, usable Warren fee, more often than not these contract quality items are really yeah.
Designed to last and they are gain. and I think a lot of ownership groups as they're negotiating their, um, FFF E install and liquidation just need to really be mindful of how they word those contracts, because just how they, how they, um, award the liquidation portion and create accountability around it can have profound effects.
Anne Wilkinson: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You know, it's interesting. We, we did a project in Uruguay, [00:39:00] the Carmelo resort. And, um, It was unbranded when we did the initial design and then it opened as of four seasons. Uh, and then it became a park cot, or part of the Hyatt Unbound collection, I think. Um, and then it's been closed for a couple years and, um, I just checked the website again, cuz I was curious, uh, if it was going to re be rebranded and it looks like they're opening without a, a flag.
Um, but it's the same design that thing opened in 99 or 2000. It is the same furniture. It is the same design and it still looks awesome. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I just. I forget when it was that I, I noticed I'm like, oh my gosh, that's the same headboard. That's the same chair. That's the same lobby sofa, you know?
Uh, [00:40:00] I wonder how long they're gonna keep that. And so I check it every once in a while. It's like, oh wow. It is still. It's still there. And what's crazy about that is, um, the client had this love of Boase design mm-hmm . And so in UA he's from the middle east that he wanted the project to have this Boase quality to it, or ballies art.
And so the, the project has this UA element. That's kind of the base. And then it has all these Boies dolls and, and, you know, carved, uh, art pieces, et cetera. Um, that, that strangely work in that setting. And, and so it's this really unique, funky, funky vibe, um, that you can't really peg a time to. Right. It's not gonna date cuz it [00:41:00] there's no, there's nothing trendy about.
Um, so it's just, I don't know. I find that project kind of fascinating.
Dan Ryan: So I'm your keynote? Was it called? It was called emotionally durable design or it is called,
Anne Wilkinson: it was called the intersection of, uh, design and wellness. I think.
Dan Ryan: Okay. So now I'm curious about that. How did you decide you wanted to do a keynote or did someone ask you, how did you work on it?
Like how did that whole thing come to me? That's ho that's incredible.
Anne Wilkinson: Um, so the international luxury hotel association asked me if I would do a keynote, uh, I think it's 15 minute keynote, so short and sweet. Um, and I had I'd started, you know, kind of looking at design trends. So many people ask designers, what, what do you see in the future?
Um, what's coming up. And, uh, so I was, I was prepping for that and, and it sort of spun [00:42:00] into, um, this, this keynote cuz wellbeing was the word of the year in 2021. And then I, um, had been intrigued by. What that actually meant, you know, and does design actually play a part in wellbeing? And, um, so I'm looking at, I'm starting to look at macro trends and looking at.
How do you predict where we're headed next? And so I started looking backwards and through history at different eras, and it was kind of fascinating, you know, between the 1920s and the 1930s, you had the great depression. And so the twenties is art deco and exuberance and, and, um, you know, expensive materials and, and these flamboyant patterned.
And then you get to the thirties. In the forties and you saw the [00:43:00] rise of Bowhouse and this democratic design ideals, and everything gets very rectal, linear, very machine made, designed for the masses. Um, and it just. It was really interesting. It was like, okay, well what, what else, what other eras are there?
And then you start looking at the sixties with the TWA terminal and that wild, crazy design in the seventies with, um, you know, John Portman's atriums and, and you start to say, oh yeah, that's when they started taking some serious drugs. um, And then the eighties was kind of a reaction to modernism. You had your, uh, postmodern style and it, it just sort of dawned on me.
It's like, we're design actually reflects what's going on in the world. It reflects our kind of [00:44:00] social conscious if you will, in many ways. And so what does that say for us today? You know, and wellness is such a big thing. And so what, what is it that is going to make people happy? And we're looking for joy?
Honestly, I think so many people I've heard that word so many more times since the pandemic is, I'm just, I just want some joy in my life or I want mm-hmm hotels to be more joyful. Um, and. There's a website that I came across called the aesthetics of joy mm-hmm and the, the title caught my eye because, um, I was intrigued by this idea that there's certain.
An aesthetic style or aesthetic quality that bring people to joy. Um, and this, this author, uh, [00:45:00] has a blog and, and she writes about all things related to joy and, um, mental health, but she does dip into what physical characteristics bring us joy. And I thought her. Her thesis was kind of interesting, which is that, um, there's a evolutionary component to why we like certain visual cues, right?
So we respond to, um, rounded forms. They make us feel safer, not gonna hurt you, not pokey. Um, we like natural light. Biologically, we like bright light. We like bright colors. Um, we like a sense of openness. Um, we like, uh, just discovering things, that sense of delight. Um, we like the human form. We like [00:46:00] anthropomorphic things.
Um, and we like texture. Uh, we actually like texture when we're kind of sad or not feeling well. It, it has. Tactility and that sense of comfort. Um, and then we love the look of abundance, you know, like you have, uh, a, a big plate tray full of cupcakes, you know, there's nothing more joyful than seeing like 40 cupcakes.
Um, so it was, it was just fascinating to me, uh, that there, there is this connection between. Aesthetics and, and our, our sense of, of happiness. And it kind of goes back to that, uh, original. Um, how do you define hospitality and, and finding things that make people happy that kind of add to that upward spiral, um, of, of giving people a more [00:47:00] positive feeling.
Dan Ryan: I love the idea of an upward spiral.
Anne Wilkinson: Instead of a downward spiral.
Dan Ryan: No, it's great because it's real. It's it's, you know, that whole idea that we were talking about with, with offices or just that hospitality lens it's yeah. There's an opportunity to uplift those walking through every single space. Yep. And I'm always just for all the conversations that I have with designers, I'm just always, um, I don't know, just awestruck that you guys.
Can have that idea of whatever, whatever it may be, that's contextualized by where and when you're doing it, but also just the execution. And, and then you hear the reviews or just, you're just a fly on the wall where you're hearing people talk and, you know, they're just they're lighting up. Or when they recount a memory of how they felt, you know, at that hotel in Bangkok that you did, you know?
Yeah. It's, uh, it's, it must, it must be very
Anne Wilkinson: reward. [00:48:00] It is it, it absolutely is. Um, I will tell you, I did my most recent project that I did over the summer in the course of a couple months was a, the creation of a teacher's lounge at my kids' high school. It is a big high school. Uh, it's never had a teacher's lounge.
There's something like 200 teachers. And, um, the PTA was working on a, a student center and there was this space that was occupied by a couple of, uh, the gym. Gym teach one of the gym teachers and one of the like counselor people. Um, and they were just rattling around in this big space and, and they thought, what if this was a teacher's lounge?
You know, they, they have such trouble with teachers leaving, um, and, and high turnover, especially since the pandemic. Uh, so they [00:49:00] kind of thought, you know, wouldn't it be great for the teachers to have a space where they can create this sense of community and, um, So my husband was working on the student center.
He kind of pulled me in he's like you're taking the teacher's lounge, cuz that's all furniture. That's all you. And uh, so I worked with a couple other, uh, parents and, um, We got some vinyl flooring on the cheap. We, uh, got some furniture donated. We found stuff secondhand. I did a, a big Ikea like scouting trip.
And, um, I think we, I really wanted to redo the kitchen, but that didn't happen. Um, but I think we spent, I don't know, $10,000 at that. And we had a teacher's lounge and the teachers. Thrilled. Oh my gosh. They were so excited. Um, well, I,
Dan Ryan: I think [00:50:00] that's also an interesting story because so often when you think of design or, or transforming a space, it's, you know, you're prohibited by cost, but really if you put in a little effort and tie it all together, and again, you have that skill, um, A little bit goes incredibly long way, and then you can have that, you know, that upward moving spiral.
Yeah. That just makes everyone feel better. Because I, I think back to the, the teacher's lounges, when I was a kid, there were just these. Dark rooms where like, every it like smoke was billowing out and they're just probably talking crap about all the students that they have to deal with every day.
Anne Wilkinson: Well, you need a bamo to design your teacher's lounge.
Dan Ryan: Exactly. yes, totally. So then what was the, what was the outcome for the teachers? Like when you hear them? When you're the fly on the wall there, and you're, you're hearing the, the before and [00:51:00] after, or I guess there was no before, cuz it just didn't even exist. What, what is the comments that
Anne Wilkinson: you're hearing?
So, um, you know, we sent a questionnaire beforehand to see what they wanted and, and would they use it and what would they use it for? Um, so, uh, it had a seating area so they could have some kind of social. Interaction time. There were, um, uh, three tables for lunch, uh, and couple smaller tables scattered around for lunch or for.
Working. Uh, and then we did this taller, uh, countertop table by the kitchen, cuz there wasn't an island. So that sort of separated the kitchen area and created a space. If they had committee meetings or what have you, they could put food out there, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm applying my hospitality expertise to this teacher's lounge space.
Um, and they, they said [00:52:00] we feel loved. We feel like people care about us. So it was amazing. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: That's freaking amazing. That's that must have been the best feedback you've gotten or maybe not the best, but definitely the most rewarding feedback you've gotten on almost any project. For
Anne Wilkinson: sure. For sure. For sure.
I mean, you don't, when you're designing a hotel, you're not designing for a very small group of people. Right. Mm-hmm this, this was very personal and I think, you know, it wasn't just me, all the parents, um, Put together a, a just incredibly welcoming environment. And we stocked the kitchen with beverages with, um, you know, coffee, tea, some snacks, et cetera.
And, uh, you know, I think the teachers were blown away. Wow. They didn't expect it.
Dan Ryan: See that's that unexpected surprise [00:53:00] is. Yeah. Wonderful. For both the. The deliverer of hospitality and the receiver of, yeah,
Anne Wilkinson: exactly. Oh yeah. So, uh, student center next year, um, that's a bigger project, uh, and you know, we've done another pro bono project.
Bamo did the Ronald McDonald house down, um, in Stanford. Oh, wonderful seal packer children's hospital. Yep. And that was super rewarding as well.
Dan Ryan: Is that in Palo Alto or Menlo park there? Yep. It's in Palo Alto. Okay. Palo Alto. Yeah. Those are always amazing. Wow.
Anne Wilkinson: Yeah. So we did their, their lobby, their kind of great room area and a kids'.
Kids playroom off of that. And again, you know, it's, it's so rewarding to be able to use, um, the skill of knowing what makes people feel comfortable, uh, to create an environment where, you know, it [00:54:00] may be populated by people who. 200,000 a year or people make 20,000 a year, you know? And so you don't want something that is so fancy or so, um, over the top, uh, that it, it makes people feel like they shouldn't be there.
They don't belong. Um, but you, you want something that's comfortable that they, they feel like they can hang out in there.
Dan Ryan: Well, plus it's hard enough to have a loved one, be sick and, and in a hospital forever. Yeah. And then you start. And then you need to be there to just care for them and give them physical, emotional support.
And then you're stuck with paying. I don't even like you could be there for months. You could be stuck. And, um, yeah, those Ronald McDonald houses are really inspirational and, um, just do so much good on so many levels because you can, so I do
Anne Wilkinson: luxury, but I also do non luxury
Dan Ryan: I love, yeah, but I think again, it's.
Making everyone, you know, [00:55:00] going back to when we first started talking, it's making them feel welcome and comfortable. And, and again, that's the thread that, you know, you can pull it up into luxury. Yep. Bring it down into anything else, but it, it, but it's the thought and the effort and the care that's trans that's transcends and transforms into the physical space.
Anne Wilkinson: Yeah,
exactly.
Dan Ryan: Um, okay. So, Anne, if you think about when. When you first arrived at, in San Francisco, however long ago, and you started working at PMO. If you, the leader that you are now and keynote speaker could give yourself your younger self, some advice, what would it be? Oh boy,
Anne Wilkinson: it would be have confidence, have confidence in yourself and your abilities.
Um, I think that. Is the, the difference between being [00:56:00] good and unsuccessful and being good and successful is having confidence in your abilities and who you are.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Confidence goes a long way. Mm-hmm but also very hard to recognize sometimes. It's a scary place to be. I think it's also, you know, needing to be vulnerable to be able to do that effectively and have that effectively.
Um, yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been awesome. And, um, how can people learn more about you or find you or bamo or just, how can people get
Anne Wilkinson: in touch? Uh, yeah, uh, website, they can email me, uh, happy to give out my email. Um, I am on LinkedIn. Uh, the office has Instagram. That's a better Instagram account. My personal Instagram is not, not design related.
lots of bread. Lots of baking projects. yeah,
Dan Ryan: you're designing bread and, um, new [00:57:00] cultures of San Francisco sourdough.
Anne Wilkinson: Exactly.
Dan Ryan: um, well, Anne, I just want, I wanna thank again. Thank you. For your time and yeah. Thank you. I'm just so grateful to, to be here and to share your story with, with all of our listeners that are growing by the week.
Anne Wilkinson: Thank you for the opportunity. It's been amazing. It's always a joy to talk to you and I hope our paths cross again soon.
Dan Ryan: I know they will because I will be out in San Francisco shortly. Um, okay. And I also want to thank our listeners because again, every week they grow and it's just crazy to me because I think also.
If I were to guess, I think it's like you were saying hospitality transcends everything. And I think that while I think the audience started as people who are designing, building, owning, operating bars and hotels and restaurants, um, I think everyone is able to learn a little bit from, from all these conversations.
So if it ha if you have learned or it's changed your thinking on it, [00:58:00] it's all word of mouth. So please, um, pass the word and thank you for your time and your, your ears. Thank.