Defining Hospitality

[00:00:00]
Dan Ryan: Today's guest is a professional speaker, a full-time educator and innovative industry leader. She focuses on making interior design a standard for all and not a luxury for a few president and founder of determined by design the most decorated black interior designer of our time. Ladies and gentlemen Kia.
Weatherspoon welcome Kia.
Kia Weatherspoon: Thank you.
Dan Ryan: I'm it's so, yeah, it's so good. Uh, to have you on here and again, I'm so on. I know how busy you are [00:01:00] and, um, just to have a little slice of your time, it just means the world to me personally. Um, so thank you. Thank you. Um, and then just to let everyone else know, um, the first time I met Kia, she actually made me cry and.
I'm just gonna share that little story. So, um, it was at the, I, I forget what award show was, what award show was at. It
Kia Weatherspoon: was the ICFF. Oh,
Dan Ryan: that's right. The ICFF awards breakfast. Um, so you were. You were presented with an award for the, for the year and by Stacy Shoemaker, one of our mutual friends and you got up there and started talking, it was early in the morning too.
It was like eight or nine or 10 or something like that. And, um, you started talking and then you, your mom was at the table right next to me. And you started talking about your mom and then I don't know if you started crying first or the [00:02:00] whole table that you were at started crying, but like, there were just all these tears that wound.
Coming to everyone's eyes. And I don't know, as soon as you, as soon as I experienced you up on stage saying all the things that you said as we'll get into it, um, I don't know, you tears welled up and I was like, you have to be on this show and share your story.
Kia Weatherspoon: Well, so it's so funny. Um, when I think back to, to that experience, right?
Um, I, I always tell people the key to my success is like, I've always shown up as my whole self. Um, and as I have kind of ascended into like, you know, design leader in that whole sphere, um, I think it's always great to see leaders and moments of vulnerability where it humanizes them. um, and my mom had never been to any like professional award event.
So that was her first time being present and to be, be [00:03:00] designer of the year. It was really, um, it was just a very deserving, um, and. Memorable and vulnerable moment for me. And I'm glad it like reached, um, I'm glad you were able to connect with it, cuz it was, I was pretty excited. I was, it was pretty dope.
It was pretty dope. So yeah. Well
Dan Ryan: and I just also wanna say like, I know I connect, but it wasn't just me. It was like every, I don't, I don't know if there was a dry eye in the place. It was like the emotion coming from you up on stage. Um, at the podium to everyone, it was, it was just so powerful and, and palpable.
Um, yeah. So thank you. Like it. You know, I, I didn't have very much coffee that morning and I, I didn't need it after that. I, I felt like I was walking on a cloud after,
Kia Weatherspoon: so we should, we should put in the show notes. You wanna listen to this podcast at seven in the morning? It'll get you going. Yes.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. But maybe we'll we'll do we'll launch it at that hour there.
Yeah. [00:04:00] Right, right. That was buddy. So in the introduction I mentioned. You focus on making interior design a standard for all and not a luxury for a few. And I don't know, I've been in this kind of world of hospitality design for, you know, 20 something years. And what I've found is over the past couple decades is design.
Used to be this unattainable or was more perceived as an unattainable, like, oh, it's only for the rich or only for like these crazy well healed projects. But over the past couple decades, I've just seen design be treated, not as a, so much of a, as a luxury, but more of like a problem solving mechanism.
It's it's, it's okay to really be a great designer. You're solving problems. And, but I've also seen. Almost a democratization of design where it is not just the five star properties that are getting it, [00:05:00] it's everything. And it's kind of creeping into everywhere. And I think being in a well designed and thoughtful built environment just makes everyone feel better and just better.
So, yeah. I'm, I'm curious on like, how do like what's driving you and, and how did you become like this champion for design as a standard for.
Kia Weatherspoon: Uh, okay. So I wanna unpack a couple things there and maybe I'll work backwards. Like what's, what's driving me. Um, So there are two pivotal moments in my life where I kind of was like, oh my God, spaces matter.
Um, the first was when I was, um, visiting my brother in a PR in a prison, he was incarcerated for 15 years. So me and my family would go in and out of prison facilities. And I, and Dan, when I say it's still, I remember it to this day. I remember walking in there and thinking like, This is fucking horrible.
No one should be in this type of space stands what they did. [00:06:00] Um, and every year I would start to look at it from the perspective of the men, the children, visiting the men, the spouses, the siblings, the grandparents, um, the guards working in this space. And it just really sat with me. Fast forward. Um, I would join the military, the air force, um, and get deployed right after nine of 11.
And I was at a bear base and an ADE air base in Doha QAR and I needed some privacy and a tent with 14 other women. I didn't have it. So I took some sheets. I hung it from the top of the tent and I made three sheet walls. And that was the first space I ever created. Um, and I both like a baby for 15 minutes and it was something about how that space healed me.
It brought me comfort and solace. Um, and when I got outta the military, I said, Hmm, I wanna do this thing where I create spaces for people. And now this is the part where people kind of go like, oh my God, That's such an amazing story and I'm like, [00:07:00] but is it that, wait,
Dan Ryan: wait, wait, let me, let me do it. Oh my God.
That's such an amazing story. I
Kia Weatherspoon: mean, I always say, what is it? I literally just said I had to go to prison and war to realize space mattered. Um, and it got me thinking about what people, what other people who look like me. Why didn't their space matter when they were growing up? Why didn't I, I realized space in my community, the quarter store, the grocery store, the laundromat, my shitty low income housing building that I live in.
Why wasn't I met with elevated design. Um, and that's how I've always approached design. Like, does everyone have access to elevated design and I'm, I'm emphasizing elevated. It kind of goes hand in hand with this luxury, this con this word luxury, right. Interior design has always been seen and still kind of is, is [00:08:00] something for a few, but not all.
And I, I remember seeing we are luxury interior design firm. We're luxury this and a luxury that, and we I've seen industry latch onto this word luxury, like a badge of honor, um, to say I'm better because I do luxury. But I was really hyper focused on how do we elevate it for everybody. Um, and that's why I think I've always been focusing on not acknowledging out loud.
interior design is not a luxury for the elite. It is something we all need access to. And in order to make such a bold statement, I think we also have to look at the landscape of cities, interior spaces, whether it's small restaurants, retail spaces, hotels, and be like, look, some of them look like f***ng trash.
some of them don't look good. They're ugly. They're less than who is charged with [00:09:00] doing better. That is us as interior designers or creatives. and that's why I've always stayed in that space. And in that lane of, until I walk into any space and it doesn't look different based on the community socioeconomic standing, we still got a lot of work to do.
That was a long winded answer.
Dan Ryan: we do. And no, but it's a, it's a, there is so much more work to. , but I do think that the trend is making that thoughtful or I, I like your term elevate more elevated. Okay. It's thoughtful plus, right. Mm-hmm, , you're kind of like leaning into it a little bit more, but I do feel like it's design has become this thing that really matters.
And to hear you, you know, do three sheet three sheeted walls, or your experience in visiting someone in a prison it's well, With the three sheet of walls. It's like, that's the bare minimum. [00:10:00] Yeah. Of just being more, more thoughtful, but it ma it, it made you, it gave you this safe, sanctuary where you could, where you could kind of huddle up and cry and just feel safe.
And, you know, as you know, A launching pad for your journey to where you're going
Kia Weatherspoon: now. Yeah. And, and, and, and sometimes people always say, did you always know you wanted to be a designer? And I'm like, no, I always knew. I wanted to make everyone always feel seen, welcome and acknowledged in ways that I, I, I never was.
Right. And I just so happened to do that through interior design. That's just the core of what I do. Um, yeah.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. So. So actually before you hung those three sheets and you, and just like you said, you wanted to kind of make everyone feel a certain way. Like what, what did you want to be when you grew up before then?
Kia Weatherspoon: I wanted to be a ballet dancer for Alvin AI. Ooh, I
Dan Ryan: did. Yeah. [00:11:00] Did
Kia Weatherspoon: practice. So I was, so I did dance from the age of six to 18 until I joined the military. Oh, wow. Yeah. So when I joined the military, I was very naive. I was like, I'm gonna get stationed on the east coast and I'm gonna dance at night, take dance classes, and then I'll serve my country during the day.
Um, and I got stationed in Wichita, Kansas, and then I went to war. Oh, Wichita, Wichita, no shade. If anybody's from Wichita,
Dan Ryan: I've been there. I'm just saying I wasn't expecting to hear about Wichita. Yeah. The shade. Um, Okay. So then with all the, so for all the students that you're impacting and just you being up on stage and you being here, um, and then all of the different projects that you're working on, which impact people in different ways, right?
Depending on what the project is, as we kind of shift the focus over into hospitality, mm-hmm like, how has your journey [00:12:00] experienced your feelings or. How you define hospitality.
Kia Weatherspoon: Okay. So we do, um, we predominantly do multi-family housing. Um, so we got like big common areas, corridors, entries, and units, right.
Similar to that, of a hotel. Right. Um, and I've always. And, you know, in our industry, we latch onto market segments, um, at determined by design, we latch onto community, a story and a feeling, um, and this idea of embracing. So the, the industry kind of like obvious, obvious thought processes. That's hospitality.
Right. So we've always designed our low income communities and our affordable housing through a hospitality [00:13:00] lens. Um, and. in doing that we've been hyper successful because I think sometimes we get, can get stuck into, well, it's this type of project. So it's supposed to look like X, um, it's this type of project.
So you're supposed to use X manufacturer and we've always just been a disruptor in saying like, but what if I do X over here in a Y type of project? And I think that's how we've been able to kind. Um, our work, our design work has been able to stand out because we weren't focused on what our market segment was, but what was the best design outcome for the people and the communities that we were working in and how do we make them feel, um, embraced, um, in their narratives, told through the spaces that we created.
That's how we kind of, you know, tow this line. Are you guys hospitality driven or multi-family driven. And I always say we are people [00:14:00] driven and being people driven is always about hospitality in my mind.
Dan Ryan: And then if you were to take that idea of how you make the others feel and being people driven, how does that translate from the work you're doing in the office to how you're impacting students?
Kia Weatherspoon: Oh, so. How does the work that we're doing the office translate to impacting students. Okay. So,
okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Gimme you ever seeing like Joe Pessie she's like, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Sorry. Oh
Dan Ryan: yeah.
Kia Weatherspoon: He's great. That my strength is I'm able to show up as my whole. And no one ever told me that that was okay. And that was enough. Um, and I think my firm has been successful because I do that. Um, my firm has been [00:15:00] successful because I am hyper transparent in all things that I do.
Um, and my firm has been successful because we put the people first, not the developer, not the client, not the whatever. So when I'm in the classroom, what I teach my students. Show up as exactly who you are. Your voice is good. Enough design is not about the next client or the next project, but it is about the communities that you design for and emphasizing that those communities will impact at minimum four to five generations of people.
And in order to create equitable design spaces, you gotta show. As yourself. So you are unafraid, right? Um, because if you're fearful and a client asks you to do something and it's inequitable or one, it's just a bad design [00:16:00] decision. If you are showing up as your whole self, you'll say this isn't about me.
This is about the communities that we're serving. So I need to speak. That's what I'm teaching my students. Um, and design is a whole person construct it's about service and to serve people, you have to be. Grounded in who you are. Um, yes, I can teach them the right materials, the right furniture, the right things for the applicable set space.
I can teach them about programming, but I'm really trying to bring back this human focus, this human centered fo focus mm-hmm to my students. Um, so they can go armed to be into the industry to be the best advocates, um, for equal design outcomes for everybody. Does that answer the
Dan Ryan: question? It does. And it actually, it made me think of more cuz I to, I wanna dig in there more cuz.
Your average student, how old are they?
Kia Weatherspoon: You know what damn that runs the gamut. Maybe like [00:17:00] 22, 24 or a second career is who's over the age of 45. That's about like 50, 50 split.
Dan Ryan: Okay. So I'm gonna go on an assumption yep. With like let's focus on the younger cohort. Yep. So of that whole younger cohort, how many of them are people of color?
Kia Weatherspoon: The probably about the 5%, five, 10%. Let's me being generous.
Dan Ryan: Okay. So let's just say it's five to 10%. So like let's focus on, on those let's call 'em kids. Right? Mm-hmm because everyone younger than me is a kid. all a kid too. Yeah, exactly. Yes. You're, you're you're you're a child. Um, but so you have. Kids coming in and you're teaching them to, to be their true self mm-hmm right.
And they're coming from a place I'm assuming where there's, they're, they're used [00:18:00] to operating within this world of code switching, right? Mm-hmm how do you, how do you coach them to be their true self and embrace it instead of code switching or in addition to, or maybe turning the volume towards being their true self all the time?
Like, I I'm really curious about how you, how you. Help them be comfortable with themselves all the time.
Kia Weatherspoon: So people have people learn to do things when they see it modeled for them. Mm-hmm and just my, my presence is enough. Um, I model it like. It, you know, your listeners can tell really quickly. I use very colorful language at times in every setting.
Like I think I dropped the F bomb when I got my award. I'll drop the FBO in class. Right. And that I'm saying like, oh, to be yourself, you have to curse, but that's just me. Right. So I model for them. It's okay. As long as it comes from a place of authenticity. Um, I also do it [00:19:00] by being transparent and talking about the uncomfortable things like money, right.
When I was actually going through my, um, salary renegotiations with the college that I teach at, my students knew all about it. Right. So I'm modeling for them. Like they knew numbers, everything I'm modeling from them, the, the barriers and the things not to use, like it like really heavy, but that have oppress.
People of color in our industry, by the code, switching the, um, pay in equity. So creating a safe space for them to talk about these things and teaching them well, how do you get more money? How do you advocate for your value to do those things? You have to start by being feeling comfortable enough that you can ask and to feel like you can ask means you have to see your worthiness.
And it's also something very, it's all the small things that I think sometimes leaders forget about. One of my [00:20:00] students said to us, to me, she said, she said, professor weatherman, you always call us by our names. I said, what you mean by that? And she's like, you address each one of us. And I said, cause you people, right, you a person I wanna be like, Hey Dan.
Right. I'll be like, Hey, Cordelia. Right. I address them cuz I want them to know. I see. Um, and it's teaching them that Sam's hierarchy. Oh, she's Dr. Weatherspoon. She has all these, I'm still a person. Sometimes I have bad days and I think I want them to get out into this industry and you're gonna meet design and luminaire, but they reg they people too.
Right. So that's how I emulate these things. So when I bring people into my classroom, um, You know, I had Cheryl Durst, I'm the president and CEO of I, I D a come to my classroom and I could have done the typical go down her resume thing. But the first thing I asked her was how was she making space for rest in her [00:21:00] life?
Um, I teach them to humanize everyone, sands the title or the hierarchy. And when you do that, when they in industry and they're designing for people, they'll search to see the person, not their demographics or their titles, is that
Dan Ryan: fair? It's totally fair. And I think, I, I don't know. I've always believed that like learning is really by doing and experiencing.
Um, and I think just to see you up there, Being your true, authentic self. It, you know, they're not, they might model you, but it's also just like, Hey, it's cool. I can be
Kia Weatherspoon: who I am. Yeah, yeah.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And then, and then for all, just for, for the clients, for all the people, all the different stakeholders that you're working with from students to clients, to people walking through your spaces to everyone, like how, how do you measure your impact?
Kia Weatherspoon: Oh, um, So [00:22:00] I think for us, we do a lot of kind of post. Like post occupancy surveys and questionnaires, uh, where we literally just talk to the people. We talk to the people in this, in the projects that we've created. Um, we make ourselves accessible to them. Um, it's not like these elite designers came in and then they left.
Uh, but we do a lot of designer discussion series. Um, and that's really just so they can be like, yeah, we liked it. We hated it. We didn. um, sometimes we quantify that data. Um, and sometimes we just receive it as a practice, as a firm, um, for our, our, and we typically don't say clients, we always say partners for like our development partners.
Language is really key for us. Um, For us for most of my development partners dollars equal success. And I'm just gonna go ahead, let them head at, but, um, when we don't have to value engineer out a project and they're able to get more, um, [00:23:00] that's a success. Um, Even like the property management team, um, the people who are gonna be like operating the building we have, when they say to us, we've been able to get more programming, more residents are coming into the spaces, that's success for us.
And that's how it's measured by conversation, dialogue, inclusion, hearing them. That's how we measure success on all the awards and stuff for secondary. Um,
Dan Ryan: And what about your students?
Kia Weatherspoon: Uh
Dan Ryan: how do you, how do you measure the. That you have on them aside from a grade, right? That's the, nor that's the number one KPI, but like you said, with money, it's not really, it is about that, but really there's other ways to, and more meaningful ways that you might measure success.
So
Kia Weatherspoon: with, so with my students, for me, success is measured by a couple things. Um, one when they realized getting the a is the least [00:24:00] important thing. Right. Um, when they say to me, Hey professor, um, I had the courage to reach out to Dan Ryan, and I've been inspired by him and oh, guess what? Now I'm doing a phone call or a shadow day with him.
Um, when they tell me, um, you know, Hey professor, I was able to get the salary I negotiated for. Right. Um, And when sometimes they just like email me, my students just send me great messages. Like my confidence is so great. Thank you. Um, I found a mentor, um, that's a more of a verbal affirmation, not a tangible thing.
Um, when I help them get a job or connect them with someone, um, all that to me is a metric of success. And. Can I tell a quick story? Absolutely. Okay. So one time, uh, back in 2020, I had got invited [00:25:00] to the, um, I, I D a south Florida chapter and oops, I do a lot of speaking engagement, so I just kind of went on with it.
And when I got there, this teacher comes up to me and she goes, oh my God, Cassie talks about you all the time. She saw you in 2015. And she said, you just changed her life. Like she wouldn't be here without you. And I was. Really. So for me, impact sometimes is not something I'm not searching for. It. It's like little nuggets that you leave along the way.
Um, and they come back to you and then that's how I know, like I've been impactful to this next generation of designers, Cay, Cassie. Yeah. Okay,
Dan Ryan: great. It is very cool. Um, so in there I heard a couple different words of. Giving or delivering confidence, courage and inspiration. Um, and I think we all could use more of that.
And I also [00:26:00] think like, as we talk about that idea of elevated design, I feel like design, should I always get leery when I say the word should, because. Who am I, but it should inspire confidence, courage and inspiration. Yes. And I think, I think that we all have the ability to do that just by, you know, leaning it into it a little bit.
Um, I have a little story. So for those of you who don't know, we have, um, we always do like this. Alignment call before the podcast. I don't like give question, I give one question like, Hey, how do you define hospitality? But, um, it's also just making sure you have a good microphone, make sure the Internet's stable, you know, which is kind of good housekeeping.
It's about 20 minutes, but, um, yeah, you mentioned something that I really wanna learn more about, which is this idea of radical hospitality. Like to me, that's super powerful. And especially as you think about radical hospitality, as it pertains to. What I heard you say just recently of just confidence, courage, and [00:27:00] inspiration.
Like what does radical hospitality mean? Like share that with our listeners.
Kia Weatherspoon: Okay. So hell everything we do is radical, but, um, radical hospitality. We, this is how we defined it. Um, it's this feeling of being welcomed, embraced, included, accepted, seen. But without any barriers, bias or judgment. And I think our industry, I don't think I know that they can embrace this idea of radical hospitality, specifically with interior designer design, um, to do that.
You have to see people through their stories. And when I say people, I also mean communities through their stories. Um, and then there has to be unconditional empathy in every step of that [00:28:00] process. And then you also tangibly have to search for those stories. And be hyper unapologetic of having them reflected and narrated in the spaces that are being designed and, or developing.
You gotta wanna make it captain obvious. That's how you really, really embrace radical hospitality. That's what it means for us at determined by design.
Dan Ryan: I, I, I mean, that just resonates with me so much because one of the surprising things from all these conversations that I've had with these amazing guests, like you over the year or more than a year now, is this idea, which I think is overlooked.
So much of unconditional empathy. Amen. If you're really opening. And I think that that solves so many issues in the world, like if we can just all learn to open our hearts a little bit, be vulnerable, or maybe more than a little bit more, a lot of it. Yeah. A lot of it, it changes everything. And I can even [00:29:00] feel talking with some people maybe not here because I have to be like super on and like listening and I'm open to hearing you.
There are times in life outside of this, where I just feel myself closing off and, and, and it's almost like a, like a calcification of a feeling, right. I can feel it it's a thing. And I just, whenever I feel that I just need to remember breathe open, listen, have unconditional empathy, because that's really.
Helps us see and hear each other. Yeah.
Kia Weatherspoon: I mean, and, and I wanna, and it, and sometimes I'm like, oh, you could say the thing that, the proof of thing, but I wanna like show like tangible, actionable example. Right. So we were working on a project and I think this also goes to this kind of diverse, the importance of like diversity, equity and inclusion in, in our industry or just in all industries.
Um, You know, still, you know, 90% of architects are white, [00:30:00] only 2% of interior designers are of color. And I think this empathy comes into play. When you're designing for people who don't mirror you or you're designing in communities that you've never experienced. Um, one time we did this empathy exercise, one of our development partners, um, You know, we like to start with describe the space type X that you would want for your loved one.
And they don't say we want this marble, this the, this that they use more like adjectives, want to feel welcome, solve flexible, blah, blah, blah. Um, and then we'll show them a picture. Um, of one of their we'll show them a picture and we say, is this a space that you would want for your child or loved one to have the thing X event that you just described?
And they'd be like, no. And they're like, well, why did you create it for someone else? Because we just pulled it off your website. Right. So it's not like trying to get [00:31:00] you. It's more. So like, let's think about the design decisions we are asking of our creative professionals. In our creative professionals, we should every step along the way, challenge or educate our partners about is this good enough for all people?
And if it's not, we are not designing through a empathetic lens and the client or the partner is not developing or whatever through a empathetic lens. That is how you tangibly create, um, equitable design outcomes with an empathetic lens.
Dan Ryan: Hmm. I love. Yeah. And it's really, I, I act that asking them how they would or what they would want for a loved one.
It really pulls out those adjectives. Mm-hmm mm-hmm I'm gonna use the, I'm gonna R and D that rip off and duplicate
Kia Weatherspoon: You know what please do. And this is why I, I say all the time, look. [00:32:00] Determined by design. Can't be on every project. It can't do every project. So I'd rather teach other people what we do and why we're successful so it could spread, it could spread. So yeah, rip off and duplicate. I like that.
Dan Ryan: yeah. You know, and I, I wanna go back to where you talked about your brother in prison and in.
Versus rehabilitation mm-hmm and, you know, I was just in Phoenix, like I said, and I was talking with an architect who actually was in town and he went to go visit a prison that he's an architect of mm-hmm that was for Hawaiian prisoners, apparently like Hawaii ships, their prisoners to the desert of Arizona.
And as I'm hearing that, I'm thinking that's full on incarceration. Not. Rehabilitation. I didn't ask him, like, how do they design for rehabilitation or anything, but as you, I was just playing that back in my head as you were [00:33:00] talking. And I was like, wow, that's crazy. Have you done any work or do you have any ideas about how prisons can change to be more rehabilitative if that's even a word?
Oh,
Kia Weatherspoon: so my, so it's so funny. My undergraduate thesis was actually a male prison facility. Um, and. I really deep dive into like how the, the, the men moved through the space. So in this facility, it was hyperfocused on rehabilitation. Um, all the finishes were elevated, um, but the way they traversed through the building, no one ever moved in a backwards motion.
Um, because when you think about it, 75% of inmates there, the 75% of them recidivate, which means they go back to prison. So keeping them constantly in this reduction of moving in a forward motion. Um, so that was a very like heady research thesis I did in undergrad, but [00:34:00] I've done two things. Um, One, the work determined by design does two, also our procurement company, but that is the next thing I intend to tackle.
Right. Um, is to look at institutional design, the justice design and how do we rethink it and reimagine it. Um, and I'm gonna actualize it here. We will be the design firm that changes the way the interiors of prisons are created. Um, wow. Okay. Yeah, we're not there yet, but we will be because when you think about a prison, what is a prison, common areas, corridors and some units mm-hmm right.
Um, it's it's housing people, then they can't, they can't just leave and check it in out as they want. But I think our hyper. Like approach to fuck the market segment designed for the people it's stripping down that segmented barrier that [00:35:00] allows us to be innovative in any space that we create. And that'll be my next that's that's the future.
One of many things, the future of what determined by design will do. Um, so we're, we're we're yeah, that's next. That's powerful
Dan Ryan: and great. And if I can help via any. Connection or however I can help with that impact. Like just please let me know, because I feel, and I feel like it's, it's that way with, you know, prisons obvi like that's so obvious, like, and rehabilitation and in injecting a bit of hospitality in that, but I'm also.
You know, more widespread or just like hospitals in healthcare, where I just feel like it's not that that should be about healing and wellness and so much, I heard you say institutional a bunch of times, it's it tends it trends to back to being more institutional and not about healing and wellness. But I feel like with just inserting a [00:36:00] bit more of an elevated design perspective, like you said, um, I think it can contribute.
In like a placebo almost of yeah. Helping people rehabilitate and get better.
Kia Weatherspoon: And, and it's so funny, like, cause one of the things I said earlier, I'm hyper like sensitive to language, like even a term institutional design, what is. But if you were to Google, sounds like what it is. If you were to Google institutional design, you'd see courthouses hospitals that, that kind of shadows the lines of healthcare, um, education, prison.
So all those things are institutions, institutional design. Um, even that just kind of makes me cringe, um, this, this, this construct of the market segments, um, Yeah, just kind of like, Ugh, institutions are filled with people and this is why you have to be people focused. Like, yeah,
Dan Ryan: I totally agree. And then, so that's [00:37:00] super exciting on the institutional front that you mentioned, and then like, as you also look to the future, like what's exciting, you most, like where, where are you, what what's helping you get out or exciting you to jump out of bed every day?
Kia Weatherspoon: Um, well, um, You know, so today, um, my company just turned 10 in September, so that congratulations. Thank you. That still keeps me excited. Um,
Dan Ryan: and overnight success
Kia Weatherspoon: after 10 years. Absolutely. And I haven't aged today. I'm still a kid.
Dan Ryan: You are, you're younger than me, so you're
Kia Weatherspoon: a kid. Um, but my, when I, Dan, when I say my team, they are a beast of just young designers.
Um, That, that legacy that I've built, that space that I've created for them. That gives me excited. Um, so, um, my, my vice president, Sequoya hunter Sujay, um, me being able [00:38:00] to like put a spotlight on her for this industry to see, oh, they're not ready for her, but they gotta be, cuz I'm pushing her out there.
That gets me excited. Um, our new procurement company, lucidity procurement, that gets me excited. Um, But what's grinding. My gears now is I am venturing into the startup space, um, where I am going to create a place facility, um, to bridge the gap between college and the industry. Um, I'm currently working on a pitch deck.
Um, and then I will start, um, Doing a lot of kind of fundraising entering in the BC space, um, that I know will be the next phase of my legacy. And that gets me really, really excited, really excited.
Dan Ryan: So aside [00:39:00] from being a, I guess we're all, we're all entrepreneurs who are talking here, right? It's like aside from being a designer, professor, this you're an entrepreneur.
Kia Weatherspoon: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm an entrepreneurial business owner, but at the end of the day, I'm just Kia. Dan. I'm just Kia um, yeah, I'm just Kia.
Dan Ryan: I love it. And then, so you're teaching at Savannah you're in DC. You're all like you're all over the place. Like where are you spending most of your time? Uh, Delta
Kia Weatherspoon: terminal.
A
the Elena Hartsville airport. No, no, but seriously, uh, Uh, so right right now I spend the bulk of my time in Atlanta. Um, but you know, my heart and my home and my arts, um, is, is in Washington, DC. Um, but most of my time is physically in Atlanta.
Dan Ryan: Okay. And then when you're on the road and spread thin all over the [00:40:00] place, what, what kinda.
What food solves your homesick feeling? Oh,
Kia Weatherspoon: you, we cannot tell folks that look don't judge me. And if y'all did I wanna care anyway? Um, I love McDonald's
Dan Ryan: oh, wow. Okay. So what's your go to child.
Kia Weatherspoon: So when I, sometimes I don't wanna go and I'm like stress eating. It's the French fries. It's the salt. Oh yeah. Um, it just, it's just.
As it's, um, calm up this calming of the, of all the things with a big Mac and fries
Dan Ryan: yes. Hey, we all have our guilty pleasures, you know, what's so weird. I loved McDonald's so much as a kid and it was like always a treat to go, but I'm very surprised and, and I feel like they they've engineered the food. To light up all of our yes.
Serotonin receptors in our brains. But the weird thing [00:41:00] is my kids actually hate McDonald's. I don't know why. So that's so good. I know it's good, but it's also upsetting because sometimes I want to go have a big Mac
Kia Weatherspoon: with them. and you're like, kids, can I use you as a scape coach? No.
Dan Ryan: Oh no, there's
Kia Weatherspoon: no dice, but my team member always says she's the, she goes, stop eating that trash.
And I'm like, I know, um, So I try to do it like once a month. I'm not like at McDonald's every day I'm traveling, but, but it's yeah.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Awesome. okay. So then also on the, on the startup, in the startup world and the, the VCs that you're talking to, like, where are you, like, where are you thinking of heading?
Like what kind of direction?
Kia Weatherspoon: Um, so I am going to go to big kind of NGOs. Mm. Because it will have this connection to, you know, interior design design for good. Um, but I'm also gonna go to industry, um, and industry. And when I, when I make this hard push and this hard, make these hard pitches, um, I think industry is [00:42:00] looking for a place to funnel money to cultivate the next that's next generat race, a black and brown creatives.
Um, and they will come from this school that I create. Um, and I will take all of your money. Thank you, please. And thank you with a smile. Um, because when people talk about diversity equity inclusion, I always say, if it didn't affect your bottom line or your bottom dollar as a business, then you didn't do anything.
Um, put your money where your mouth is. Um, I would say a closed mouth doesn't get fed and I'm going to comfort to industry. Because a great man that I know his name is Jack Travis. He said we need 30 million in 30 years to truly build the pipeline for black and brown creatives. Um, and I am working on the place to build that pipeline.
That doesn't
Dan Ryan: sound like that big of a number.
Kia Weatherspoon: I'm glad you said that, Dan.[00:43:00]
It really doesn't. Yeah. Um, so that's, that, that to me is just like, Yeah, that's my next thing. So I'm excited, excited. Well,
Dan Ryan: that's exciting also because, you know, I was just at this, uh, the lodging conference out in Phoenix. Um, and I met a woman named Ashley who is works at Howard university and she, Ashley Johnson.
Yes. Oh, you know her. Okay, good. I do
Kia Weatherspoon: some old, all the blacks in hospitality know each other dance oh, good.
Dan Ryan: Well, I just met her for the, I just met her for the first time and she was walking around with three awesome students, um, who I interviewed and I, I need to cut all that stuff together and get it, get it up here.
But, um, when you say the 30 million, I don't know how much Arnie Sorenson from Marriot bequeathed or endowed the hospitality program at Howard with. I know there's more Arnies out there. Yeah. Who wanna affect, who wanna affect this change and the cool thing about Howard [00:44:00] they're like right in DC or really close to it.
And it's like, it all feeds in like there's Hilton. There's the there's Hilton. There's Marriott. There's Pebblebrook. There's host. There's R LJ. There's all. It's like the mothership there. So it can, I know that money is out there for you to affect your change.
Kia Weatherspoon: Yeah. And when I'm, don't worry, I'm gonna call you and be like, Hey Dan, remember, remember we recorded it?
Um, it's on record. Cause you make those introductions now. Thanks.
Dan Ryan: yeah, totally. What, whatever I can do to help. Well, I'm glad you know, Ashley, cuz I was gonna say, oh, I should connect you with her. But if you, if y'all are. Y'all are in it to win it. So yeah, we are, we do that connection, but she was great. I actually wanna have her on as a guest as well, just so she can tell her story.
And I think what was super cool, which I didn't realize is what I learned from the students is, um, they all have regular majors, so there was a marketing major and accounting major, a [00:45:00] finance major. But when you talk about the lens of hospitality, again, I'm not an expert, but it sounds like you can have a hospitality emphasis, so you can all have your majors of whatever they are.
Mm-hmm , but then there's an overlay that focuses you into hospitality. So it's not like you're a pure hospitality major. And that sounded very unique and interesting to me. Yeah. Do you know anything
Kia Weatherspoon: about it? So, so not specifically that program, but this is what. I think it's realizing all the, the key word here is hospitality.
That's at the intersection of everything. And again, if we go back to what hospitality is, right, um, is, is how I defined it or, um, is feeling welcome, embraced, included, accepted, and seen yada yada yada mm-hmm . But to do that, you have, you gotta have people coming from all spectrum. Yeah, right. And I think that's the beauty of that program.
Um, the [00:46:00] intersection is welcoming and inclusion. Um, so it, I'm sure it works because they're not looking at it from just one traditional pathway to get to the intersection of hospitality.
Dan Ryan: Well, the other cool thing is that these three students had never been to a conference before.
Kia Weatherspoon: Oh, I
Dan Ryan: love. Right. So they're, you know, you're looking, their eyes were just like, oh my God, this is so crazy that everyone is just here to specifically talk about any aspect or all aspects of hospitality.
And, you know, I get so much energy off of students just like you must, you know, at Savannah college of art and design, but, um, it's like that fresh perspective that they all bring to the table. Mm-hmm
Kia Weatherspoon: and, and you know what I wish I wish industry would do more of that. Just kind of say, cause I think how many conferences have we been to a lot in our career.
Right. So I think we begin to, we forget to, we kind of take them for granted, but I always say, [00:47:00] bring one, bring, go, say local college. Whatever's closest to you. Hey, do you have any, any majors in hospitality or ex can I bring them with me to a, a conference or a trade show? It's about sponsorship again.
Sponsorship requires money, right? Mm-hmm um, That's a very like low hanging, low hanging fruit to just being more inclusive in our. Because we might be like, oh my God, another conference. But to them, it was like, oh my God. Oh God, totally. Um, and that I think can help us kind of feel a little bit reinvigorated, um, seeing it through their lens of just excitement and that first time experience.
And I think we forget that, um, as leaders bring someone along and stop taking the things from granted that you do so often that someone else hasn't even done yet. And
Dan Ryan: these kids were amazing. Like when I was interviewing them, they, they were just. On it, they just had a message. They had a vision, um, and I'm saying, had they have, they were just super [00:48:00] inspirational and I can't wait to get them up.
I'm doing like these little short forms of these man on the street or person on the street interviews that I did. And, uh, I'm excited to get that up. So thank you for, I love it. Reinvigorating me on. I love it.
alright. Well, I mean, this. Has been just so fantastic for me. Um, learn more about you. How can they find you?
Kia Weatherspoon: Oh, how can they find me? So you can find me, um, go to the determin by design website. That's the best way to follow, to find me. Um, but also, you know, reach out to me on LinkedIn. Um, now I will say if you reach out to me on LinkedIn, you better tell me why.
I think people just accept LinkedIn connections for the sake of. Um, but be like, which why you wanna connect? Let's talk about why you won't talk, but our website, the term by design website and on LinkedIn are the best way to reach me.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And if you wanna reach out to her on LinkedIn, I think a good way is I want to be able to, [00:49:00] I want to learn from you on how I can be my whole self.
How do I bring my whole self, my authentic self to the table? Yeah. Yeah. But don't, don't rip off and duplicate what I said. .
Kia Weatherspoon: Yeah. Yeah. That's that's, that's a good one. That's a good one. Um,
Dan Ryan: well, Kia, I just like, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed this conversation so much. And thank you for making me cry and now laugh and, uh, spectrum.
Yeah. And I guess thanks to Stacy also for like in a roundabout way, introducing us.
Kia Weatherspoon: So thank you. Yeah, that's my girl. I love her. I adore her. Um, Yeah. Aww, Stacy.
Dan Ryan: She's amazing. Um, and, and Mo, and also importantly, I just wanna thank our listeners. It's so crazy. I keep saying this, but I'm humbled every week when I look at all the numbers, like we grow every single week, so we're striking a nerve and, um, I'm sure it all comes down to the guests that we have on like Youa, but I just.
[00:50:00] Thank you for all the, the growing listeners. And if this has changed your idea on hospitality or diversity equity inclusion, please pass it on to a friend. Um, this is all word of mouth and thank you everyone. And we will see you next time or hear you next time. Bye-bye