Defining Hospitality

[00:00:00]
Dan Ryan: Today's guest is accredited by the American Institute of Architects. He's a lead accredited, professional, and certified with the National Council of Architecture Registration Boards. He brings focus to all projects on creating beautiful spaces. He has over 25 years experience with award-winning projects around the
Chris McDonough: the world.
Dan Ryan: He's a principal at the Geddes Group Companies, ladies and gentlemen, Chris McDonough.
Chris McDonough: Excellent. Thank you Dan.
Dan Ryan: Chris.
Chris McDonough: Glad to be here.
Dan Ryan: I'm so glad to be here too. And yeah, you know this being defining hospitality, [00:01:00] I'm super excited every time I come into your office here in Chicago, the view is amazing.
I love those corn cob buildings. Because Wilco is one of my favorite bands.
Chris McDonough: Oh, there you go.
Dan Ryan: every time I see it, I take a picture and send it to a friend of mine. Yeah.
Chris McDonough: Yep. Um,
Dan Ryan: I think also what's cool, I haven't done many of these in-person ones. Yeah. And talk about. Being made to feel comfortable from the moment I walked in to us sitting here.
Yeah. Um, I've experienced a different kind of hospitality. That's, that's
Chris McDonough: awesome to hear. That's exactly what we want. We set our office up to be that way. We, we really do take that to heart, the being hospitable with our friends, our partners, our clients, our, our team members here. So, um, and yes, uh, we love this conference room's.
Dan Ryan: view.
Chris McDonough: it's inspiring on its own, just the architecture of the city. I'm Chicago, born and bred person and, uh, just never wanted or needed to leave really. So, and it's also kind of cool. We can see a number of our projects just looking [00:02:00] out our own window. So I love it. Love it. Yeah. I
Dan Ryan: it's, it's such a, a fantastic space.
So, I guess firstly, thank you for having me here and I'm just super grateful.
Chris McDonough: Well, thanks for thinking of us and thinking of me. I'm happy I'm, I'm, I'm back at Geddes. I'm sure we'll chat about that later, but Absolutely. Um, yeah,
Dan Ryan: that's actually one of the things that I was most excited about.
Yeah. Um, in particular with you. Um, and I think that could be a good thread for talking about hospitality. because there are a few companies out there that have
Chris McDonough: this
Dan Ryan: kind of boomerang, right? Mm-hmm. . So you're here, you, you have a lot of experience at this or another company. you go, and then I'm always intrigued by the people who come back and like, and that, that feeling, right?
Yeah. Because I love that boomerang effect. And to have you come back, I was so excited to hear that you came back. Yeah. Um, and before we get into that journey, , mm-hmm.
Chris McDonough: I guess,
Dan Ryan: as far as you feeling comfortable and [00:03:00] being here. Mm-hmm. and with the team. And the team growing and where we are in the industry.
Right. As you think about hospitality mm-hmm. , like what does it, what does it mean to you?
Chris McDonough: Sure. Yeah. Well, uh, it's kind of a feeling really, and, and.
Dan Ryan: hospitality.
Chris McDonough: I, what I learned from, you know, leaving Getty and coming, coming back and I, I, you know, I worked at a couple different places and experienced different things.
You know, my heart really is in hospitality. I can kind of, uh, express that. I, I really gained a lot from some other places I worked at and had good experiences. But, um, my heart's really in hospitality mostly because of the feeling you get or the feeling that we want to give guests and people.
um,
that are experiencing the spaces that we design.
you just kind of get a feeling. Right. And hospitality,
really is giving people an escape, kind of. Right? They're in a space that, they don't normally experience at home or in their day-to-day lives. And so it's kind of a space that gives people an aspirational feeling and a wow. I want [00:04:00] to experience something different.
Um, the other big part of it really is that the spaces. , they have a story behind them. You know, they have like a, an ethos or a feeling. So, you know, experiencing that story, transporting people into a different mindset, they can kind of escape a little bit. Um, those are the spaces, you know, that, that we live and thrive on and love to do so.
Dan Ryan: And when we're speaking, I guess last week or the week before, I don't remember, um, when you mentioned that this idea. of these Aspirational spaces,
Chris McDonough: right? Mm-hmm. , they
Dan Ryan: Strive a, they, they allow us to have a different kind of experience. One of the things I was really taken that you said was there's a, there's an impact
Chris McDonough: that you
Dan Ryan: leave in the, in the projects and spaces that you work in, where not only are the people that are in that space experiencing something new and different they're impacted in such a way that when they go somewhere else There's kind of like a butterfly effect or a paying it forward or, Wow. I [00:05:00] didn't know that. I could Feel this way in this place. Let me bring it to other spaces.
Chris McDonough: I think people, people talk about those spaces too, right? They, they share, you know, when they come back from a trip or a traveling or even just, you know, if you're walking, if you're in the city, you pop into one of those spaces.
You, you remember those, they're destinations and you wanna share that with people. You wanna like bring that experience to somebody else, and then in hopes of that, they'll have that same experience too. Or it is a very shared situation, right? You can compare and. Places that you've been, that I've been, and you kind of get excited about that, right?
And you're, and again, it's all about, um, not having that in your day-to-day life. It's really that I, I think it's like a haven and escape, whether it's a public areas or a guest room itself, right? You're kind of in your own little world basically. So, but yeah, you, it's a, it's a memory and you always want to share those memories with people.
So, yeah.
Dan Ryan: Another thing I'm intrigued by is that, you know, oftentimes in, in many of these [00:06:00] conversations just experience in being, in our world, there seems to be this like dividing line architects and interiors, right? And to hear you say, you know, you lead with your heart or you're, you know, you, you really have to have your heart in it. I know a lot of architects and, you know, and the stereotypical art architect, I wouldn't hear that come out. of their, Their mouth. in a, in a sense that, right. They want to build these edifices, these monuments of, of these great works. But oftentimes I find that the interiors
Chris McDonough: are the right
Dan Ryan: most important part where everyone is feeling and having that experience.
Yeah. So how did you, on your journey come from like being fully immersed in architecture To really then saying, you know what this is, I want I wanna get my heart more into it through through the interior design side.
Chris McDonough: Yeah. I mean, I, I look back on it a lot and I've always, I don't know, I've always appreciated both sides of the coin, the exterior and the interior.
And, [00:07:00] um, yes, a trained architect worked in architectural firms first and then just sort of over time migrated into interior design. And so I, I actually. Combine the words. I mean, interior architecture, you know, is a thing. It's, it's a little more maybe of a international type of profession, but the marriage between the two, I think is always the most successful, um, process.
And it is, like you said, it's kind of sometimes very clear when an architect design something and an interior designer designed something and the two didn't collaborate, or the two didn't, um, work together to create that story or to create that experience together. So, ,
Dan Ryan: um,
Chris McDonough: I think it just turned into a situation where tying all those parts and pieces together, the, the programming of the spaces influences the actual three-dimensional space.
Right? So, um, just kind of turned out, I mean, it really wasn't orchestrated. Um, I, to your point, I, I [00:08:00] more appreciate the spaces you experience rather than the buildings you look at, right? Mm-hmm. , if both can be amazing. , fantastic. But, um, I've always appreciated both, you know, I'll walk around and take pictures of exteriors of buildings just as much as I do of interiors of a building.
But, um, I think back to that point of experiencing spaces and using spaces, you know, the other part of it's like it can be a beautiful space, but if it doesn't really function or work well, that's really frustrating too. So I love when you see people using hotel lobbies or restaurants or bars.
Dan Ryan: um,
Chris McDonough: The way you intended them to be used, right?
There could be a specific detail at a bar, a lower section or a little spot that you created and then you see someone using it that exact way. Um, you know, we've done some really cool like lobby stairs or uh, seating areas where I imagine we can imagine, you know, kids playing on them for a little while and then later at night it turns into a [00:09:00] just kind of a communal bar space and people are just kind of hanging out on those.
Um, I think that mar, like I said, that marriage between the, um, the use of the space and then the, the, uh, the feeling of the space just turned out what I really wanted to work on. .
Dan Ryan: love it.
Chris McDonough: And I think hotels allow for that, right? There's the blending of interior and exterior also just is a, is a necessary, um, um, you know, function for some hotel spaces.
So, uh, that gives us opportunities here to kind of blend the two. Awesome. So yeah.
Dan Ryan: And then I heard you say earlier, you're born and raised pure Chicagoan.
Chris McDonough: Yeah, like
Dan Ryan: within the city limits.
Chris McDonough: was, I grew up on Southwest side, just like near Midway airport, so I could see this actually, I could see the city skyline from the one bridge right by my house.
So every time, you know, you, we drove over the bridge. I would see it in the distance. So that, I don't know, I always just kind of had a gravitation toward that.
Dan Ryan: Um,
Chris McDonough: Went to school here at, in Illinois at Uni, university of Illinois, [00:10:00] and then wanted to work in Chicago.
Dan Ryan: So growing up on the Southwest side,
Chris McDonough: does
Dan Ryan: make you a Cubs fan or a Sox
Chris McDonough: Well, I'm breaking the rules. It should be a Sox fan, but I'm a Cubs fan through and through. Okay. Uh, it's always a battle in the city here. My, my dad was Cubs fan, my mom was Sox fan or the families, but, Cubs fan all the way. And I'm an, I'm a huge baseball fan actually, just in general. Awesome. So, yeah. But Cubs, yeah.
And I saw the autograph baseballs behind you, uh, in your office. We need to chat about those
Dan Ryan: afterwards. Oh, yeah. There's some good ones.
Chris McDonough: have a few at my house too. We'll compare notes, .
Dan Ryan: Okay, great. Yeah, most of those are from my, um, from my mother-in-law. So she was the, I don't know the, the skipper or she, she helped run the Admirals Club at San Francisco International.
Wow. So a lot of time, like one of them is Joe DeMaio cuz he's from San Francisco. He would come in and out. Yeah. So I have a couple from Willie Mays. Sure. Um, cuz he would always come in and that was back in the day when you know They [00:11:00] could hold the plane for you and Yeah.
Chris McDonough: I have those same autograph baseballs at my house too, so Yeah.
Dan Ryan: So,
Chris McDonough: but Cubs fan. Yeah, I know
Dan Ryan: well. And then, and that's a whole other kind of hospitality where Sure. On a nice summer day in this. town and you're just kind of walking
Chris McDonough: walking around. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Everyone's like, you going to the game? You going to the game? And It's almost like the biggest outdoor bar.
Chris McDonough: Oh, totally.
Dan Ryan: And it's so much fun.
men, women, everyone there just having a good time. And Some of them are watching the game, but most of 'em are just talking and having a great time.
Chris McDonough: Yeah. It's like, it's, it's a communal kind of shared experience, right? I mean, it, it, that's hospitality to some degree. You're just outside.
Dan Ryan: Um,
Chris McDonough: But yeah, that, that's one of those experiences and that's what's really great about hospitality.
I mean, um, I do like too, right? Especially downtown here, you know, and I take the train in every day. Um, and on some of those days where people are getting off the train with jerseys on, you know, you just exactly know what, what they're gonna do, where they're gonna go. They, you can almost plan out their whole [00:12:00] day for 'em.
It's kind of fun to see all that when they're walking around.
Dan Ryan: Well, also, and just thinking about, you know, going back to your. journey As far as into design via architecture. Growing up on that bridge where you could see downtown Chicago, just such a, a world class city for architecture. Yeah.
How did, like, how old were you when you first knew that you're like, this is what I want to study. or This is what I want to do.
Chris McDonough: Yeah. I, I don't know. I, I think I, I kind of got lucky in terms of, you know, Drafting classes as a kid, right? Mm. Uh, I don't want to date myself, uh, with a pencil with my silver hair, but yeah, I learned to draw by hand.
Sure. Right. So, um, literally like middle school and high school, I was taking drafting classes and art classes and things like that and just kind of stayed with that and really enjoyed it and thought, okay, well I'll, I'll go to architecture school and if I don't like it, well, you know, we'll see. I'll, I can switch out if I go to a big university.
Dan Ryan: I
Chris McDonough: just always loved that. And, you know, all [00:13:00] the, some of the cliches maybe as a kid, you know, is building kind of the erector sets and the panel sets and, and those things. But, um, I think it was just sort of the, there's two sides. So there's the creative side and then there's sort of the technical side. Um, and in my, um, you know, college curriculum was really broad.
It was all aspects of architecture and design. And then when you move into. Grad school, you can sort of select your, your specialty. So I, you know, I, I went into design and so it was always design focused with, with architecture and, and MI training. So part of that, you know, you'd mentioned earlier about architects and there's certain, there's, there's always sort of a, a goal though, a concept or a, um, uh, inspiration that you're trying to convey with, with architecture itself, but
Dan Ryan: going
Chris McDonough: that, right, with the story, Of what the interior spaces should be like, what they're influenced by, what you want people to [00:14:00] feel.
Um, I think that that's a natural progression. If you study that from, from an architectural way, you can really get more, um, storytelling with it as you get in interiors. I
Dan Ryan: love it. And if you think about storytelling, whether, if you're write, like writing a story. Mm-hmm. telling a story, making a movie.
Designing a building. There's this narrative that. I think the idea of design, which is really like solving a problem and telling a story, right? yeah. And making sense out of a lot of different Yeah. Images and data points and into a cohesive narrative. Right? And when you, I heard you say a couple minutes ago, you know, when you were in high school you were painting and drawing.
cuz when I was in high school, I was painting, drawing, sculpting, doing all this creative stuff on the fine arts side.
Chris McDonough: Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And then I did a summer program one year for architecture. and then they actually taught what design was, and
Chris McDonough: was,
Dan Ryan: it [00:15:00] was really interesting. And I also, I'm still amazed, like, why don't we teach?
Or maybe that's a be better question for you. Like what do you think the reason is that we'll teach fine arts, but not necessarily design like you're drafting and drawing and painting. But they don't really teach what the concept of design is. At a young age.
Chris McDonough: Like the process. How, how do you get.
an idea to a reality. I mean, there are, you know, schools and programs that do that, but it's not a core, it's not a core thing. And it really should. It's to your point, it, it's problem solving. How, you know, how do you solve that type of problem? Uh, and not that, not, not problem in a bad way, but how, how do you create a use and a function for, for people, whether it's a school, whether it's a hotel, whether it's a home.
Mm-hmm. , you know, how. ,
Dan Ryan: do you,
Chris McDonough: how do you think that way? And some people just do, and some people it's not their thing. Right? It's, it's kind of interesting, um, even as we go through our process, right? So Geddes [00:16:00] has a variety of services. Um, and when we talk about, you know, when you kind of go from a branding standpoint coming up with those.
narratives and feelings, and then translating that into interior design and or architecture. You know, some people are very visual, some people are more verbal. So you kind of have to use all those tools to get the ideas across. Um, and so just that process in itself, you know, comes through, you know, in, in the professional sense.
But it really should be part of, um, curriculums. And, and it, it's odd though, like a lot of people come out of.
Dan Ryan: um,
Chris McDonough: You know, their family setting. A parent was creative in some way, or technical in some other ways. Mine necessarily weren't either of those. It was just me gravitating toward it. I think I also tended to be a little, um, precise and perfectionist.
So I think I really enjoyed the drafting and making the drawings perfect, building models and [00:17:00] making those perfect. Um, even, even down to writing penmanship and then learning the architectural writing. I just,
Dan Ryan: really
Chris McDonough: enjoyed that. Um, I got good at it, so it is, and so I was that generational break literally where I learned all of that by hand in college even, and that's right when CAD was coming out.
And so I started taking, we were kind of on the leading edge of using computers for, for certain things, and then I started taking CAD classes on my own right when I started working, my first job was using CAD or CAD programs, but I hadn't really learned.
Dan Ryan: those
Chris McDonough: Through my curriculum at in school, it was just not quite there.
So I had to learn it pretty, pretty quickly on the fly. Actually. ,
Dan Ryan: I think about, as you were talking about the branding, the design, the arch. and even just some of the thought leadership that you guys do here in particular, like Hotel of Tomorrow too. Yeah. Um, how do you [00:18:00] weave all of those disciplines together?
So like, walk us through. like At a, at a high level. Okay. So like a new project's coming in they want you to do
Chris McDonough: mm-hmm. ,
Dan Ryan: the whole kitten caboodle, so
Chris McDonough: to speak. Right, right.
Dan Ryan: Like how do you collaborate with your team? How do you get the buy-in
Chris McDonough: from
Dan Ryan: the client and keep going and refining and getting it all to tell that cohesive story.
And how do you know when you're done?
Chris McDonough: Right? , I don't know if you ever know that you're done. .
Dan Ryan: Um,
Chris McDonough: You know, it's funny, I, I was thinking about this. We have a, a large team meeting tomorrow, and, um, back to your point around movie, movie making or book writing or whatever, the creative process, John Lasseter, the, the great Disney producer guy mm-hmm.
um, he, he said once, like, you don't, we don't ever finish creating the movies. We just release them.
Dan Ryan: Like,
Chris McDonough: You just get to a point, you're doing all these things and the whole case, you [00:19:00] just, you're never done. But at some point, you, you release them. Right? I don't think we're ever really done designing. We just open the hotels.
There's just this momentum. You just have to pull all those things together. I like that comparison of like getting a movie out there and getting a hotel opened. Um, but how do you do that? I mean, it, it takes a village, of course. Um, it always starts with,
Dan Ryan: though a
Chris McDonough: A clear collaborative client who, that's the best scenario where they, they, they know what they're trying to achieve.
They don't know how to necessarily get there, but they have a, a goal in mind of why they want that hotel to be, to be created. Um, it's definitely starting with, um, certainly in today's market, you know that, that clear story. Study the market. What's needed, let's [00:20:00] say in a, in a particular city, what type of hotel for a certain type of guest.
Um, just understanding that market and comp set is really important. Um, and then if you understand that need, then you really start going down on that overall programming route. Now, typical. Architects are kind of pulling together an overall shell of what's needed. If, if we're talking like a new build situation, but even a renovation or a conversion of an office building, which we've done a lot too.
Those are some of the most fun projects where you start with a building and then you transform it or turn it into a hotel. You just kind of start test fitting things against that market knowledge and market research and see what makes sense in that, in that shell that's being created. Mm-hmm. . Um, the other side to that though is just.
Dan Ryan: um,
Chris McDonough: creating those spaces and experience for guests that aren't there now. So, you know, I think as we've seen over the last 10, 15 plus years,
Dan Ryan: [00:21:00] the,
Chris McDonough: the hotel itself has all these different outlets and all these different experiences and spaces that, that they're looking for. So on the food and beverage side particularly, um, those spaces become like anchors to the hotel, but they don't necessarily need to.
Dan Ryan: to feel
Chris McDonough: like they're part of the hotel. There's, there's that sort of like, you don't want to just be in a hotel bar or space. It's, it just happens to be attached to a hotel. So understanding how much of that's necessary in, you know, a a, a soft branded story filled hotel, like an autograph or something. Um, and I'm, I guess I'm very focused on the urban setting cause we're staring at it.
But if you start thinking about, um, more natural settings or sites that are outside of urban areas, then you really. It really starts to matter what's needed out there, you know, what are the outdoor experiences or spaces that are needed? What's a, um, it's, it's really what Geddes is sort of built on, right?
It's this left brain and right brain thinking, [00:22:00] being creative, coming up with beautiful spaces, but that are very functional, and then also bringing great, the greatest value possible to the.
Dan Ryan: estate. Yeah.
Chris McDonough: that's really what we're trying to do is give the pack the most into the space that allows the client to, you know, be fiscally responsible with their investment, but then also have those guests, how can we get the guests to come back to talk about it, to share their experience, um, and to, you know, be a repeat
Dan Ryan: Yeah.
Chris McDonough: kind of visitor.
Dan Ryan: I'm always intrigued by that idea of return on investment. From a, from an aesthetic or design perspective. So where, um, okay. So you have that clear client with Who who wants to collaborate. Um, you're looking at re building something new or repositioning something, and then how do you, what are some like good examples
Chris McDonough: [00:23:00] of, of
Dan Ryan: elements within a project that you're like, oh, that ROI was, was great there?
Because It's almost like you can't go in thinking solely about roi, but it's always gotta be back there. kind of In the back of your mind.
Chris McDonough: Oh, no, no, for sure. I, I think there's a couple of things there. One is just the, the function and flow of the space. I mean, there's just a functional need and use that, that works or doesn't work and that, that can be very complicated to figure it, to figure that out.
Um, but it's pretty basic stuff, right? We're,
Dan Ryan: we're
Chris McDonough: humans now. We're all different. We all have different tastes. If a space is comfortable, um, and welcoming and, you know, people can sort of relate to it and they can, if they can be communal, like we talked a little about earlier, a lot of what hospitality is is, you know, just being communal and sharing that experience.
If you provide spaces that allow for that, um, and it's a [00:24:00] unique offering. It's a. ,
Dan Ryan: um,
Chris McDonough: maybe a slightly unexpected, it's, you know, it's comfortable and food, but it's an unexpected experience. Um, that will, that will draw people in, that'll bring people back and they'll, they'll, they'll spend more money there or they'll, they'll wanna linger, right?
It's kinda like being sticky. Mm-hmm. , you know, you want people to kind of stick to your spaces. Um,
Dan Ryan: a lot
Chris McDonough: of it has to do with that research, the guest demographic and psychographic, you know, are you really targeting that?
Dan Ryan: need
Chris McDonough: in that market. And who are you drawing in and how are they being drawn to that? You know, we had a project, you know, where again the client, it's a project in Omaha, um, called the Farnham, where they really were wanting to use that hotel as a draw.
It, it was like the destination and a way to elevate that city or even that, that, that region of the city. And that was their goal. That was their, and they. They couldn't, should do that. Um,
Dan Ryan: and
was [00:25:00] it repositioning, uh, an area within Omaha?
Chris McDonough: Yeah, well, it was actually like, back to my point around it was a conversion of an office building.
And, you know, it's always kind of, maybe, you know, the, the projects that really have legs are the ones that, um, are part of some other greater moves in, in a city or an area. So this was part of a large, um, city public block in front of them that they were redeveloping as a, as a Destin. Um, for the downtown.
So they became part of that. And you're connecting to that, working on another project, uh, downtown, uh, San Antonio at se curio. We, we have a lot of those fun, soft branded hotels, you know, like autographs, tapestries, curios, and this one, same thing. It's a new build, but they, it's part of this master redevelopment where there's a lot of open public spa, uh, outdoor areas, event spaces, f and b kind of, um, uh, offering.
and same thing, it's to elevate that whole city and become the [00:26:00] gateway or the, the first destination you have from the time you leave the airport. The next thing you're, you see or are at is your hotel. Yeah. So it becomes like that, that first memory maybe of, of your, of your visit to the city. So
Dan Ryan: I think, I know you just mentioned all those really kind of fun in.
Soft branded hotels. I think also what's interesting about what you guys have done really well here is you're doing, you know, that luxury slash independent, soft branded space, right? But then you also have like a whole arm of like really nailing select service and helping develop brands and doing kind of like the thinking for the bigger brands.
Totally. Like that must be really cool. How do you, How do you place. yourself between those two arena?
Chris McDonough: Yeah. Well, it's, it's interesting. I mean, GDES has been around quite a long time now, so overall, these years we've built a lot of relationships. I think you were 30th birthday party. [00:27:00] You Yeah. You probably were.
Yeah. That
Dan Ryan: or Geddes
Chris McDonough: couple. Yeah. Birthday. Yeah. My, you were, I don't think I knew you that many years ago, but Yeah. No, Getty's, right? 30. Yeah. We're, we're, we're past 30 years now, and I think over the years we've just built that reputation of being.
Dan Ryan: just
Chris McDonough: hospitality focused, right? And so we've gathered and kind of all that stuff is stuck to us.
And, and you know, our team here, you know, Roger and Andrew and Ron, and you know, all the rest of the group here, um, we've seen it all and we can apply that same focus or thinking across the different types as you mentioned. So, um, you know, select service, that that's a certain type.
Dan Ryan: of
Chris McDonough: Process and need, um, versus, you know, the full service or the soft branded story filled hotels.
Um, but the other side I think is just the, um, we're like committed to it, you know, we're, we're passionate around it. And, you know, [00:28:00] hospitality sort of desired in some other worlds now too, right? They're,
Dan Ryan: people
Chris McDonough: want a hosp whatever they think the definition of a hospitality is. , um, multi-family housing and, and other kinds of
Dan Ryan: of spaces.
Yeah. Multi-family aviation. Office. Right. Um, education. It's really getting pulled in to everywhere. But it's weird because I feel like, is that just a recent phenomenon or is it, has it always been that way and now I'm just noticing cuz I'm having all these great conversations?
Chris McDonough: no. It's more recent.
I mean, I think it's now been there a little while. I mean, we were asked to do some of those types of things. Five, 10 plus years ago. Um, sometimes it takes everyone to catch up some of the early ones. Uh, they're not ready for it . So
Dan Ryan: what do you think has, um, helped us kind of crest that barrier to where, what we all do in our world,
Chris McDonough: right,
Dan Ryan: is needed or wanted by everyone?
It's like [00:29:00] a, it's like a, magic formula.
Chris McDonough: Yeah. I, I, I think more people have had access to those spaces. So whether they've experienced those in hotels or, you know, restaurants, people are eat, have, have gone out and they're just, they're out more p pandemic aside. Um, they have a, a taste for that and you know, there might be a little more financial ability to do those things and go see those places and spaces.
But I also think cuz the demands there then building owners, um, developers and the. , they see that they can make more money by providing those types of spaces, right? Supply and demand really drives it to some degree. So they wanna differe, differentiate themselves, create a higher rent, a higher rate in their hotel.
Um, they're going to do it .
Dan Ryan: Yeah. I was just, I was just having lunch in New York City and it was a, some class, a office building, like one of these over here, right? Where the lobbies tend to be. You know, [00:30:00] a little underutilized,
Chris McDonough: let's just say.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, yeah. and, um, I forget who the ownership group, some big private equity company
Chris McDonough: mm-hmm.
Dan Ryan: they were like, I want to activate this And they put in a restaurant that's kind of open. It's a little unusual that they did it there. But it added such a level of warmth And activation. Sure. That now they're like, oh my God, I want to do this at all of our Class A office buildings. Like around the world. Like, how, how can we Re-look at that.
Chris McDonough: Yeah. And we, we were studying that, like I said, years ago for some. , you know, owners of buildings that we, that we have partnerships with. And, um, some of those came to, came to fruition and some, some didn't. It's just, um, what I think it comes down to dollars and cents a lot for some of those, some of those buildings.
But I think going back to the, uh, the notion of why that's becoming so important, I think, you know, for better or for worse too, design has become a little more just out there, right? There's an entire channel. On TV that [00:31:00] express design and there's just more of a, a knowledge base around it and appreciation for it, um, at all fronts really.
Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And I, I just, over the 20 years that I've been doing this, I do see, even just look at how target transform retail or Even Apple transform retail. It's really by investing in the design of those. spaces.
Chris McDonough: well, it's an experience, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a reflection of those brands, right?
So, you know, apple, their product has a certain feeling and people, there's loyalty to it, but they've created a, a brand. Everything that defines that brand, uh, is clear and understandable and
Dan Ryan: I
Chris McDonough: desirable people are like drawn to it. Um, I think, uh, the hotel brands obvious.
Dan Ryan: want
Chris McDonough: to be very clear with the definition of their hotel, [00:32:00] um, and their brand.
And you, you know, you talked about our, um, our history and our, you know, we do have good relationships and we are working with a lot of brands to clarify that. Um, and to help with that. You know, the, it's funny, the more they seek out the expertise from, from firms and companies, ,
Dan Ryan: um,
Chris McDonough: the better off they are.
They, they get more input. Or you, if, if you just stay within the walls of your company, you know, you're really not gonna, you're not gonna grow, you're not gonna understand or see the outside world. So, you know, to their credit, the, the brands are really, um, trying to define right. The so many brands, um, have been created over the last 15 plus years, as you know, and that provides a
Dan Ryan: lot of
Chris McDonough: of interest for.
for work. So it keeps everyone in business, which is nice. But um, but it makes it difficult to sort of slice and dice. Yeah. Cause like all those brands, how do
Dan Ryan: do you differentiate, and how do you create [00:33:00] that unique experience? But then I guess it comes down
Chris McDonough: to,
Dan Ryan: you know, just all the different shapes, sizes, colors, and flavors of people.
Yeah. That I think you said psychographic before. Right. It's scary when you're planning a business or, an, or, a, or a. brand To really do such a tight bullseye. Yeah. But that's also when you do it well. Yeah. It's, it's scary because you're, you're, you're you're focusing on something at the expense of a lot of other, right?
So that, but that's also, I think
Chris McDonough: what
Dan Ryan: in well done brands, that's what drives the value. Cuz then you have, you, you build these raving fans of the
Chris McDonough: branch. You do. Yeah. You, you just build loyalty and you build comfort. Um, and.
Dan Ryan: um, unique experiences.
Chris McDonough: That's why, you know, that's what's really fun about the soft brand hotels.
That's why we love 'em. It's why we love creating those stories, you know, and, and the name and the, uh, just an experience. You know, I, I love [00:34:00] hard branded hotels too, you know, and it's a really strong experience and it's clear, it's consistent, um, and it provides all your needs. Those are. Those are, you know, those work out very well too.
But I think for me and for, for Getty particularly, um, the ones that we can point to, there's nothing else like it. It's the, the flagship of the city, let's say. Or it was the renovation of a historic tower. Uh, you know, we did ran tower in Minneapolis and that was this beautiful arto building. Um, and we sort of like reinvigorated.
The building itself, um, through the, through the hotel and the
Dan Ryan: did another one years ago with you, it was the Lavec tower. Which is like a huge art echo in
Chris McDonough: Same exact. In Columbus, Ohio. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: But That was the tallest building.
Chris McDonough: Yeah.
Dan Ryan: West of the Mississippi. No, it's not
Chris McDonough: It'd be east up to some time. Yeah. So up
Dan Ryan: till they built the Empire State Building, maybe that's what it was.
Yeah. Cuz you're, that's east of the [00:35:00] Mississippi. Yeah. It And then New York. Yeah. Kind of blew it out of the water. Yeah. When they went crazy. Yeah,
Chris McDonough: No, I know. I, those are the projects that are just really
Dan Ryan: then also, I just saw, um, Roger Hill from Geddes. is from, is he from Racine?
Chris McDonough: Ray Scene,
Dan Ryan: yes.
But now they're working on some cool, and that you think about like Johnson Wax and all those other really cool buildings there. What's that that he's that
Chris McDonough: Yeah. Hotel, uh, hotel Verdant. Yeah. It's in Ray Scene. It's a current project that we're working on. It. , the hometown projects are nice, right?
So yeah, that's what I, you know, going back to Chicago and all that, I, you know, I definitely worked on a lot of hotels in, in our, in my backyard. In our backyard, and those are great. You can take friends to them. Your fa my family, you know, I've gone to some hotels that we've worked on. Um, those are the ones that are really meaningful.
Um, when you stay. You can share, you know, share those with, with, you know, your, your friends or families in your hotel. Totally. It's like if you're on, you know, if you, [00:36:00] you're on a baseball team and you play, you know, at home, that's probably the same thing. Right. ?
Dan Ryan: Well, it has its pluses and minuses. Right. And then you're, just, oh my God, it's Right.
Chris McDonough: Well, yeah. And then if people pick it apart, you're like, come on, why'd you do that?
Dan Ryan: look at this one thing. Yeah. And then you're like, oh, I got a thousand other things. to
Chris McDonough: Or, yeah. Or my, or the kids are running around. You're like, don't do that. You can't climb on that. Or, you know, don't, don't mess with that.
Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Put your hard hat
Chris McDonough: on. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Um. So Chris, as kind of looking back from when you were a kid and your architectural and design journey, um, to all of your experience being at Geddes, leaving Geddes, coming back.
Chris McDonough: Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Kind of where I feel like our whole industry is on this ascendant trajectory. Mm-hmm. , um, after coming out through whatever we all just came out of.
Yeah. Um, what is exciting you most about what you're seeing in the medium to long? term?
Chris McDonough: Um, wow, it's so exciting. I, you know, we are in a good, good place. To your point, you know, uh, [00:37:00] the hos hospitality industry is strong right now. There's a lot of, um, new creation of brands and, and new, um, avenues for our firm and, and hospitality designed to be infused into.
Um, I just get excited around, you know, being, being back at Getty is, you know, I'm very comfortable here and collaborating with.
Dan Ryan: the team.
Chris McDonough: You know, I get really excited when we come up with something that we hadn't thought of before, just through those, those conversations or sketches or, um, just clicks in a meeting.
So I, I'm it
Dan Ryan: be something from like super
Chris McDonough: grand
Dan Ryan: to super.
Chris McDonough: Yeah, you, you don't really know exactly right how you'll solve these challenges or these problems. Um, you just have to be like, you gotta keep your eyes open a little bit and have as much inspir. , um, come to as many people as possible, but it, it has to be orchestrated, it has to be curated a little bit, right?
It just can't be like shotgun approach. [00:38:00] Um, that's why I think, you know, that research and that, um, understanding of what the needs are is really important, but I just really get excited when we come up with something. It clicks a younger designer or a team member, like gets it, and then they kind of play around with it, you know?
Sketching it or, or, you know, on the computer. And then when they, we come back and it's even better than we, when we left the conversation and then that, that, that, um, notion of then working with a meeting, you know, in a meeting with a client showing it to them and they have questions or they have responses to it.
Um, that's just the fun part of it is truly the solid.
Dan Ryan: solving
Chris McDonough: puzzles, right? It it is, it it's like,
Dan Ryan: do you do puzzles?
Chris McDonough: No, actually puzzles drive me nuts. . I don't have the patience for it, I think, um,
Dan Ryan: you'd rather just, instead of figuring out what it was already done, hey, I'm just gonna blaze a new
Chris McDonough: path.
Yeah. A little bit like Right. Just [00:39:00] trying to like, figure out how you'd flow and, you know, flow through a space, how you would use a space or how a guest would use a space, because that's part of it too, is it's not really about what I want or we want, we wanna, we put our heart into it and we put our, um, our best foot and our best commitment forward.
But it's really about the, the, the guest, you know, you can put your own person. Uh, spin and take on things, but we are really designing for, you know, for people, for guests. It's not really about our, um, particular taste or style.
Dan Ryan: what's like a new challenge that you were presented with,
Chris McDonough: that
Dan Ryan: you got that light bulb experience where the whole team kind of came together collaborated, and you were like, Eureka?
Or whatever you do whenever you
Chris McDonough: Yeah. Land
Dan Ryan: ho.
Chris McDonough: ho Oh. I've only been back for two months, so , I don't know how many I've had of those. No, we, it's funny, we, uh, I, I mentioned that one curio project. Um, we were doing some planning for it. [00:40:00] Um, you know, it's a very open plan in the lobby and bar and it, it opens up to a cafe and to the outside.
And, um, you know, the team was starting to experiment with some of those planning moves and, um, there were three or four of us in a meeting. , you know, just sitting there and listening and we're all taking things in. And we were talking about just different locations and different spots where the bar should go and what that would, just a very basic kind of situation.
But it wasn't like clear, it wasn't easy, exactly how we should master planner or space plan, that public area. But it was a really important decision to make or to test. So we were sitting there and we, and we worked through it and we came up with some options and that bar location. ,
Dan Ryan: um,
Chris McDonough: we kind of tied it together with a grand stare that's in the space and we knew we could do something really interesting and fun with it and it would be a focal point, and it really made sense flow-wise too, through the space.
So team put that together and then they presented it last [00:41:00] week. And that one plan we all came up with at the end was by far, you could just even tell in the room. Everyone was like, yep, like that's it. And then when certain things are locked and click like that, then everything else just kind of flows naturally from it.
So, um, that's just one basic, simple example, but like the team all got it. We all rallied around it in a meeting all together. We were in the office together, we were collaborating, we were looking each other in the eye, and then the team went down, presented it. Um, they, the client got excited around it, and now we can move ahead, you know, so it's fun.
Totally fun. .
Dan Ryan: And then When you think about, when you have that moment where it all, where the planets align, so to speak. You've done all the work and you just fe you feel it. You feel it in your heart, you know it's the right one. Yeah. As far as the other disciplines you have here from mm-hmm. , even specifically on the branding side.
Yeah. Yeah. That's always interesting to me as far as how do you get, how do you tie those two things together?
Chris McDonough: [00:42:00] Because
Dan Ryan: in some ways, when it's done so well, again, it's almost like you don't notice. it. Right. But you gotta like, it's just ha Yeah. It all has to be so intertwined and part of the same dna.
Chris McDonough: Yeah. Uh, it's not easy.
I mean, we struggle with it sometimes, honestly. Right. It, it, it's not a, it's not an easy, easy process, but we're kind of doing it together. I think that's part of the key is, um, there is a research based approach. Um, also on the creation of the story. Now we usually want to root it. Something that's either historical or inspirational of that, that area, whether it's the city or the state or the, the name of the person that created that building, whatev, whatever that research is, um, you can kind of start to get a, um, a, a pallet or an arsenal of stuff to draw from.
Mm. then the different brains think differently, [00:43:00] right? We start to think about, yeah, we start to think about how you would apply that in a built sense branding. They start to think about how they would apply it in a naming sense or a, a feeling sense or a logo sense, or a, um, um, a definition of what that should be since.
Um, and I think that's the, the beauty of it, right? Where you. , uh, that final sort of, um, inspiration and then you start in your head to think about, well, how could I apply that to a floor plan? How do I apply that to, uh, a bar? How do I apply that to pieces of furniture? Um, and again, there's a lot of different levels of doing that and there's different brands that want it different ways.
Um, but you're totally right where when they combine. ,
Dan Ryan: and
Chris McDonough: they are seamless. That's usually a successful,
Dan Ryan: that's when you just release it solution.
Chris McDonough: Yeah. Then you open that [00:44:00] hotel, right? , then you stop designing. You
Dan Ryan: the movie
Chris McDonough: and you move it. Yeah. You get it out there. Um, uh, but you know, there's, it's very complic, you know, you still have to operate it, you still have to promote it, you have to sell it, you have to deliver on that.
Um, you know, so it, it takes a lot of the weakest link in that situation. makes it all fall down. So you have to, you gotta really try to tie it all together. It's
Dan Ryan: and, and support everyone and just keep ideating. Yeah. And yeah, I love that. And I, you know, looking just, kind of, I know I mentioned hotel tomorrow, but it's also like that ethos, it didn't just come up through
Chris McDonough: there mm-hmm.
Dan Ryan: Right. I think that that's part of all of what you guys do here. Yeah. It's like, how do we keep. thinking, How do we keep thinking about this and pushing and, and leaning forward? Yeah. And I don't know, it's just,
Chris McDonough: yeah,
Dan Ryan: it's just a really, I don't know. I've just, Always been a
Chris McDonough: big fan. Yeah. No, I've, I've always [00:45:00] appreciated how we're trying to push the envelope a little bit, um, and try to, um, see what's next.
You know, the, the one constant in our industry, but the one constant here at Getty is change. We do.
Dan Ryan: keep
Chris McDonough: changing and evolving and pushing. Now there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of, um, continuity here too, which I think is one of our strengths. Yeah. So, yeah.
Dan Ryan: But I, yeah, I do feel like you're always reinventing and Yeah.
You've been here for 30 years. But I feel like every time I walk in here, I, it's like an,
Chris McDonough: there's new stuff going on. There's new stuff going on. Yeah. No, I, I It feels,
Dan Ryan: feels, yeah. New.
Chris McDonough: No, I, I'm glad to hear that, but I, I think that's true. I mean, yes.
Dan Ryan: Even though you're so old,
Chris McDonough: right? I know. It's, it's shocking that
Dan Ryan: I
Chris McDonough: want every day to be the same.
That's definitely not, there's never the, the same thing happening, uh, day to day or week to week. Um, so, um, , so[00:46:00]
Dan Ryan: I like to go on like a a little thought experiment. So going back to, I love that visual of you on the bridge on the. southwest side.
Chris McDonough: Okay,
Dan Ryan: Right. You're looking at Chicago,
Chris McDonough: right? .
Dan Ryan: How old were you?
Chris McDonough: Oh God, I don't know.
Yeah, was like
Dan Ryan: you know,
Chris McDonough: early teens. Early teens. 10, 11, 12, 13, somewhere in there. 12. Sure. Yeah. So Cubs fan.
Dan Ryan: Yes.
Chris McDonough: MIT on the handlebar on my bike. Okay. It's like, it's paint a picture here. Yeah, it's
Dan Ryan: like the sandlot. There you go. The dog's barking. . he's coming. Um, he's chasing you, but, um, if you think, if if you were able to stand in front of.
yourself, Your current self Okay. That I'm speaking to. Okay. In front of your 12 year old self mm-hmm. . And thinking about the journey that, that you went on and where you are and like
Chris McDonough: mm-hmm. ,
Dan Ryan: of leading with your heart in that
Chris McDonough: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . What?
Dan Ryan: And, and knowing when it's right and feeling it. Like what kind of, what advice do you give your younger self?
Chris McDonough: Hmm. Or my [00:47:00] kids.
Dan Ryan: Or your kids? Yeah. It could be your kids, but your, your kids might not listen
Chris McDonough: to No, they don't
Dan Ryan: But your younger self might. Yeah.
Chris McDonough: Yeah. No, you might. You know, that's a, that's a tough question, Dan. I, I, you know, you don't really have any, I don't really have any regrets or, you know, things that I, you know, I took a wrong turn on, or wish I had done that, that differently.
Mm-hmm. , um, you kind of have to just be confident. Hopefully you've had parents or, you know, um, uh, you know, mentors in your life or just people that help guide you that. give you the confidence to kind of be yourself. Um, and the older I get, you know, the, the more comfort, ideally the more comfortable you get and the more you're about just being yourself and bringing the best you can of yourself.
So when you're younger, right, you don't have that confidence or that experience or that, um, um, ability to have that perspective [00:48:00] on something. But I don't know, I, I think, um,
Dan Ryan: try to Focus
Chris McDonough: and do the things you enjoy. Yeah. I know that's cliched. No, but but
Dan Ryan: it's cuz there's
Chris McDonough: shift to it. Yeah. And, and if you can this work your ass off. Yeah. Like you, I wasn't handed really too many things ever really, in my life. And so somehow my parents, my dad instilled something in me, or I had something in me already.
But, you know, I, I know I worked. .
Dan Ryan: Um, so I, I want to go into that one too cuz you said something about having your family or mentors kind of support you and Do what you love. Right. But you also said earlier that your parents were not necessarily creative people. What did they, what, what did your mom and dad do?
Chris McDonough: so, I mean, my, my dad worked on the railroad his whole life. He was blue collar. Like out. Yeah. But, but like, like freight trains. Like he was. , right? [00:49:00] He wasn't, yeah, he was outside most of the time. He, he worked hard. Um, and my mom was more just like a office manager type of person, you know, more like bookkeeping, accounting, things like that.
So more nuts and bolts kind of, you know, blue collar really. Um, and I, I don't know. So,
Dan Ryan: so when you went down this creative path, Yeah.
Chris McDonough: It was technical and creative. Supportive. All, yeah. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: they like, Ooh, what?
Chris McDonough: no, no. I think that was, that was fine. It wasn't like I went in, I don't know what would've happened.
I, I didn't, I wasn't trying to be an artist. I wasn't trying to be a poet or something that's maybe a little more, um, ethereal or difficult maybe to find a job. I don't know. Architect was a, it blended both sides to it, which I think I, I naturally again gravitated towards. Um, but they were, you know, super supportive.
I think. Definitely wanted me and my brother to go to college and figure that out. Um, and again, I got lucky. I, the thing I [00:50:00] liked, I stuck with and I stayed that I just became an
Dan Ryan: architect. And it was just you and your brother?
Chris McDonough: Yep. We had one younger brother. So, and what does he do? He actually, uh, until recently was a baseball coach.
He was in baseball his whole life. You do love baseball. So we, you know, two, two brothers and my dad, we all love baseball, played every sport, always was outside. just outside playing whatever sport
Dan Ryan: And Now you have five daughters.
Chris McDonough: I have five daughters, unbeliev and not , not as sport focused in general.
on average, I'd say. Uh, they do many other things, but, uh, but we've got two of them playing softball, which is good. Cool. So that's fun. Yeah. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And then if you think about,
Chris McDonough: um,
Dan Ryan: you and your parents supporting you and being there for you? Like how do you replicate that for your, for your daughters?
Chris McDonough: I, it's, it is just being there and supporting them. I mean, just being present, encouraging them, help, helping them. [00:51:00] Um, and, and back to your point, I mean, you know, it wasn't, you know, growing up here was helpful in Chicago. Um,
Dan Ryan: we
Chris McDonough: traveled around the country a little bit, but it wasn't like there was a, I wasn't a well-traveled person by, by any means, but.
Dan Ryan: um,
Chris McDonough: my dad, you know, my mom would try to take us places. We would come downtown, we would do things at Grant Park, we would, you know, we usually drove everywhere versus flying, you know, kind of typical situation it seems for a lot of us growing up. So, I, I, you know, back to what I'd say to my, my younger self or what we, we try to do with our kids, we wanna just give them as many experiences as possible to give them as many different perspectives on life and culture and all that.
Because, you know, at the end of the. , um, being able to talk to people and share things with people and be open-minded. Yeah. Uh, the only way to do that is to experience all the different aspects of our world. Totally. So, I love, I I, we want to do [00:52:00] that more and more with our kids so they, they
Dan Ryan: I like for my wife and I with our kids, that whole ex give them as much experience as possible.
It, that totally resonates with me. Yeah. And it's weird, like you think about the past couple years, we haven't been able to, do Yeah. That travel and different types of experiences for a nice chunk of that, because you know,
Chris McDonough: know, we were just
Dan Ryan: locked in our house. I know. So that was, that was tough. And I think we got a make up for lost
Chris McDonough: time.
I know. No, I, I, I totally agree. Now we gained, I think that hopefully closeness and bonding and, you know, other aspects that people hopefully will take Yeah. With them through this. But, um, yeah. That, but that sh you know, that, that travel and that sh experiencing other perspectives and cultures. Really important.
Totally important. So, yeah.
Dan Ryan: Well,
Chris McDonough: um,
Dan Ryan: I've loved our conversation and hearing about your journey. If people wanted to learn more from you Or get in touch with you in some way, like what's the best way for them to do
Chris McDonough: that? Yeah, uh, certainly going to the Getty website, [00:53:00] uh, helps understand, you know, what, what we're doing.
Uh, I'm on there, but really, you know, my email address is probably the best way to go. It's c McDonough getty.com. Cmc, D O N O U G h Getty dot. Great. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: then we'll put your LinkedIn up there too if,
Chris McDonough: yeah, absolutely. I'm on LinkedIn and um, out there in a couple other ways, but yeah, that's the main way to go.
Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Well, this has been
Chris McDonough: great. Yeah. Welcome. This was,
Dan Ryan: and thank you Chicago for the
Chris McDonough: amazing view. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah.
Dan Ryan: And thank you for your time.
Chris McDonough: I, this was a lot of fun. I, I appreciate this. Good to talk to you. Good to reconnect. This has been the nice part about coming. Um, to Getty is rekindling all those connections and relationships that I had, you know, kept up with a little bit of them, but now it's really more meaningful and I really enjoy seeing the faces again in person.
Right. I was I B D N Y a few weeks ago. That was great to really, um, reimburse myself. So
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Reconnection. I think that's a great [00:54:00] theme. for at least the next 24 months. For all of us. Even though you actually came back and you're reconnecting. Yeah. I think it's for all of us. We're still like getting our feet under us, so I'm gonna go with
Chris McDonough: that.
Yeah, I, I agree. I think it's an interesting time that I, I leap back into the hospitality pool actually. Totally. Yeah. Timed out well, I think. Awesome. Cool.
Dan Ryan: Well, I'd also like to just thank all of our listeners. I mean, we're we're growing every single week. It's amazing. And without you guys, Um, we wouldn't be sitting here in downtown Chicago.
So if this changed your idea of hospitality or creating spaces that exude hospitality, uh, please pass it along. It's all been word of mouth thus far. And, uh, thank you all and we'll catch you next time.