Defining Hospitality

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Dan Ryan: Today's guest has been involved in real estate and hospitality for more than 30 years.
He's been featured in many, many magazines, including travel and leisure. He's a modern day innkeeper at his core, which is so incredibly fantastic. He's the CEO and founder of Palle society. Ladies and gentlemen, Avi brush. Welcome RV.
Avi Brosh: Hi, how are you so nice to be here with you today? It's wonderful to be here within this festive Christmas week.
Ish. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Um, everything seems to be coming to a head right now. As far as everyone dotting all their [00:01:00] I's and crossing all their T's before they can spend some time with their families. Um, I'm so excited to be speaking to you today for many, many different reasons. The first one is I always love having a personal connection with the guests who I'm interviewing.
And with you in particular, we went to the
Avi Brosh: same super duper
Dan Ryan: small high school in New Jersey where I, I dunno, I had 39 people in my class. How many did you have
Avi Brosh: in yours? 38. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And the odds of that happening and also then making the journey out to California. You stayed. I came back, um, I dunno. I just feel like we have a lot in common on our journey.
Avi Brosh: So yeah. You know, it's, uh, it's one of those things where, um, because the school is so small, it's almost, you know, you almost never really, you know, especially living in Southern California, almost never run into people that have, have been there or even really [00:02:00] heard of it, frankly. And I'm really proud of, uh, uh, of having gone to that particular school because it is very, it's a very unique place and, um, have a lot of fond memories.
I think of my experience there, although I'm sure there were some challenging times as well, because it was high school, I suppose. Uh, but, but yeah, no, that's a, it's a very unique, uh, connection for sure. And, uh, Yeah, during those really formative times in your life, you, you, you, uh, take away from it, some unique things.
And I, I think back on my experience there, you know, more often than I would think then than you would think, but, uh, it's definitely something that has resonated with me over the years. I heard a really
Dan Ryan: interesting thing. I don't think it's a statistic. It's more of a, of an anecdote, but it was one of these learning events I was at.
And they said that most human beings in [00:03:00] the course of their learning from grammar school all the way through university have
Avi Brosh: five
Dan Ryan: incredibly memorable teachers.
Avi Brosh: I was
Dan Ryan: actually shocked by that because from my experience at subtler day school, I think I had six to eight and that need an account.
All the grades. Is that I had in college. And I think that you and I, and all the people that went to the super duper small school were served really well because the teachers were so freaking incredible.
Avi Brosh: You know, I agree. I think, you know, I remember the teachers really mostly, uh, as being characters, uh, almost like in a Wes Anderson movie, more than, uh, for their educational prowess.
But, um, uh, but that's because I wasn't very a studious person. I was more interested in these people's personalities, but yeah, when I went, it was still, I don't know when I, when I went, it was still called saddle river country day school. I don't know when you, did they take it [00:04:00] out by the time they got there?
I don't know. I don't like that. They took that out. I think it adds a little personality, but, um, uh, yeah, I re I remember a handful of, of characters really. And, um, I was particularly taken with the, uh, P. Slash, uh, coach, uh, Joe . I wonder what I wonder what he's up to, but, um, you know, he was just one of those guys that, uh, uh, had a way of connecting with students and, uh, lifting them up in a way that I thought was very unique.
And so I really enjoyed my, uh, you know, my time on the sports teams there. Um, and did my, I think it was maybe my junior year, we won the state championship on our soccer team, which was pretty incredible considering, you know, the school is so small. Uh, to no small part really, uh, [00:05:00] was to him, it was a little bit of a bad news bears type situation because he wasn't necessarily a soccer guru per se, but what he was was, um, you know, just a dedicated educator, I suppose.
And, uh, we just had a really interesting group of people. Uh, and we would just, uh, take the little bus, you know, to these. Um, I remember because when you go to a prep school, it's not like you play the town next door, uh, and you just driving 10 minutes to the next high school, we would have to drive to Princeton and, you know, upstate New York and all kinds of weird places.
And that we, you know, And he drove the bus and, you know, we would get out there and do our thing and come back. And so a lot of fond memories of that experience. Yeah. And not to
Dan Ryan: talk too much about him, but his son actually was an incredible soccer player. And then they, after I left, I think they won the state championship in soccer again.
Um, and it was, he was still guiding them. So that was, that's amazing. Pretty awesome. And his
Avi Brosh: son was [00:06:00] the store. I remember, uh, when I was there, his son, maybe it was small, you know, like maybe he was three or four, whatever, something like that. The other thing about him and maybe we shouldn't really talk about it, but I just thought was so interesting.
And maybe you don't even know this, but, uh, he on the weekends to make money, he used to go and 10 bar at like a bar in like the lower east side or somewhere downtown. And I actually think if I, you know, and I. I can't remember if this is true or not, but I actually think that, uh, maybe in my senior year, a couple of friends in us actually I think got in and got in the car, somehow we must've figured out where it was.
And we actually went down to where those bar in New York, just to see if it was actually true. And it was, um, and I just, I haven't thought about that. Gosh, a really long time, but anyway, hilarious. Well,
Dan Ryan: yeah, so actually [00:07:00] tying back, like I had to learn a real love of literature at saddle river day school.
We had, I had some just incredible teachers. One of the books that we read, uh, was Howard's end by him Forester. And one of the things that I loved about it, this idea of only connect, only connect. And if I look at like my path into hospitality and thinking about what I love so much about it, it just fosters so much of these connections as was written throughout their.
Tell me, how did you find your way from New Jersey to California and then really trailblazing in this kind of new, really exciting hybrid model of hospitality. And just tell us about your journey and kind of where you are now.
Avi Brosh: I tell you in a bridge version because you know, could take forever to tell you, but essentially, uh, when I w I went to college after I graduated settle river country day school, uh, I was very fortunate enough to somehow by the skin of my teeth, got accepted to Boston [00:08:00] university in the days when, um, you could be sort of a mediocre student and still get into Boston university.
Uh, and, um, and so when I was in Boston, You get to meet so many more people, uh, in an environment like that, as opposed to a small private school in Bergen county, New Jersey. Um, and, uh, I just so happen to meet people from all over the country. And, and I, I was able, I met a wonderful girl from, um, from Southern California.
And at some point I can't remember. I can't remember what year. I think it was my junior year also. Um, she invited me to come out for Christmas break, uh, to come out and her dad, uh, lived in Malibu on the beach in Malibu. And I really didn't know anything about California at that time. Uh, and so, you know, I had nothing else to do.
So I went out and spent a couple of weeks at California. I just couldn't believe it, you know, coming from New [00:09:00] Jersey and just sort of, uh, living in Boston and really being, you know, very east coast. Uh, centric, I suppose, in my, in my, you know, thinking New York city, new, you know, Northern Jersey and, you know, that was kinda my world.
And I didn't really know a whole lot about. Uh, any place else. And so when I got, uh, sort of a look into what was happening in Southern California, and you probably had the similar experience, I sort of said to myself, well, you know, if I'm going to graduate college and I'm going to make a go of it and struggle, and you know, like have to make ends meet and get a job and try and figure out how I'm going to, you know, sort of, uh, make a go of it.
I just seemed like doing it in Los Angeles, seemed a lot more pleasant than doing it in Manhattan, which, you know, in the mid eighties was, you know, still a little bit rough. And, um, and you know, it was one of those things, even in those days, you know, if you made a hundred [00:10:00] thousand dollars a year, which at that time seemed completely unattainable to me to do that.
And live in New York, you still were kind of struggling, you know, like, you know, it was, you know, incredibly expensive. Uh, and in LA you could sort of ha you know, kinda for your money, I suppose, get a lot nicer place to live. And it was really nice weather, and it just seemed like a, a nicer spot. So that's how I made it to Southern California.
I graduated school and, uh, migrated to California for exactly those reasons. That was the good news. The bad news is I really had no skills. You know, I didn't really know anything about anything. And when you're 22 or 23 years old, You really don't know shit. Right. So, uh, I just got into the real estate business really by accident.
I, um, I really, I just, I, this is the actual story is I, I used to, when I first got out here, I had, I didn't know anybody. And so I would go down to [00:11:00] the, um, I lived in westward, so I would, I would go down to the, the, uh, there was some basketball courts behind the veterans building and I would, during the day, I'd go and play basketball.
And I just happened to meet a guy there who I would kind of see, you know, I don't remember maybe a couple of times a week and we just started to have a chat. And he mentioned to me how he, you know, he said, what are you doing? I said, you know, I'm looking for a job. He says, well, you know, I got a friend who's a real estate developer who is looking for like a gopher, you know, like a, like an assistant type person.
I was like, oh, great. I'd love to go meet this person. So, uh, Went and met this person. I, I didn't have a resume or anything, but I had a really nice suit, I think. And so I went, I remember like it was yesterday, I went and visited with him and he hired me on the spot. And I just got a job as like a gofer, uh, in the real estate world.
And I sort of just used that as a [00:12:00] springboard for really learning the real estate development business. And I'm going, you know, major, fast forward now to, you know, sort of an ambitious young person. And by the time I was about 30, I was in a position to start my own company. Uh, again, ignorance is bliss.
And so, you know, I sort of figured out a way to do that as a very alive story about what that is, but I was ultimately able to do it. I want
Dan Ryan: to just ask, I want to ask a question there on the, where you said we had a similar experience. I'm totally shocked that your first experience is really Malibu. Yeah, because when I first moved out to go to school there, I became friends with this guy Meesha his dad was really one of the first hotel design people ever.
He had a house in Malibu and I just remember walking in and seeing this whole different lifestyle of welcoming people in, off the beach and just being friends with everyone. And yeah, that was really, I think my [00:13:00] first real example of just of hospitality, his name's Michael Benner, he's like a mentor and father-figure of mine.
And so it was just really shocking to hear that. Because it's so different
Avi Brosh: from where we grew up. It's, that's the thing, you know, like I remember walking into the house for the, in the house in Malibu because, you know, Malibu is kind of an odd place where on, on the, on the street side of these houses, you're like, you know, they don't really, you know, they don't look like the houses in saddle river, obviously where there's lots of land and, you know, they're sort of very majestic.
Um, and I remember, you know, rolling up to this house and going okay, you know, and you know, you walk in and you're like, oh my God, you know, it just right on the beach. And it's like walking into a movie and. And just sort of yeah. Experiencing that and this, and, you know, and, and, and Cal and California themselves live a very [00:14:00] different lifestyle than, you know, Northeastern owners.
It's more casual. It was more open-minded, you know, the food was completely different and the sort of the attitude, the speed, the, uh, tone, the priorities, you know, and I didn't know any of that. And when you go, like even just going to the restaurants, just everything was so completely different it's it was mesmerizing.
And, you know, it's almost like one of those things where you go back and you don't want to tell anybody about it because you don't want anyone else to know about it because it's so good for me,
Dan Ryan: it was just really, almost like landing on a moon, you know, Italy. It was a completely foreign and different experience, same country, but almost a different planet.
It really was. When you go back to when you met the guy and he hired you as a gopher on the spot, what do you think he
Avi Brosh: saw in you? You know, I was, uh, I was a person of not many skills, but, [00:15:00] you know, I think that he understood pretty quickly that I was a guy who had sort of, uh, some frame of reference for, uh, understanding what was perhaps good taste and what was perhaps, um, you know, uh, uh, I had an acumen about me that, you know, was a by-product of my upbringing and where I was from and the, you know, how I was educated and the people I was surrounded myself with, which I think in a lot of ways, uh, you know, was a privilege that I didn't really, I wasn't aware that I had.
Um, but you know, our collective background was such that, you know, we were around successful people and we were around, we had, we were in a, uh, a setting that, uh, you know, had a certain[00:16:00]
personality behind it. Just rubbed off on you, you know, there's just no way to have it not. And I think that he just got a sense that I could probably not only, you know, go get coffee, but I probably could also have a point of view about certain other areas, TBD that I wasn't aware.
Dan Ryan: I think a lot of that also probably has to do with just this, you know, scrappy, New Jersey, New York, Metro, just like get out there, get things done, right.
Where you look at kind of the stereotypical California is like super laid back and all this. So it's almost as if you're a part of that, but you're bringing something else to the table. And then I guess fast forward that first hire
Avi Brosh: into
Dan Ryan: how you wound up transitioning into hospitality.
Avi Brosh: Well, I just to touch on a little bit about where [00:17:00] you're alluding to is it was very clear to me pretty quickly that, and I would say this is not a shoe today because California's evolved a lot in the last 35 years, uh, Southern California in particular, uh, and Los Angeles, I suppose, uh, to be even more hyper-local, but, uh, It dawned on me pretty quickly that I was just used to operating a different speed than everybody else was.
And I think there was probably a 15 year run or maybe a 20 year run where I was like, you know, if someone was walking a mile, I was walking five miles. And so I was just faster and quicker on my feet. And. More of a sense of urgency. And I just came with like a different skill set in terms of time, a sense of time and, and the value of time.
And so I was able to really ma uh, sort of monetize that I suppose. And I was able to very quickly kind of [00:18:00] accomplish things that I couldn't in another environment like New York city, which had a lot of people like me in it, and a lot of smarter, better, more, you know, sort of people with more resources.
And I just didn't really hold a candle to a lot of the people that I was sort of seeing around me. And here it was a little bit of the opposite. Like I was sort of able to understand that there was an opportunity and because of that, I went fast. So that's really what allowed me to really get into a situation where I was able to start my own company at 30 31.
I was just ambitious that way. And I was able to kind of just. I don't want to say run circles around people, but I was just sort of like, you know, uh, by 9:00 AM where other people were just kind of rolling out, I was already, you know, I'd already done, you know, what other people had accomplished, you know, would take them till one o'clock.
And I was willing to just work a little harder and think about it more. And I didn't really need to get up in the morning and go surfing. Not that there's anything wrong with that. And I think it's [00:19:00] a beautiful thing, but that just not wasn't my DNA. And so, uh, and so when I got into the, when I started my own company, it was really a development company.
It was, I didn't even, it didn't even Dawn on me to do anything that related to hospitality or lodging. I was just a hospitality and lodging fan. You know, I was, I loved, um, I loved hotels and restaurants, like a lot of people did, but I never really, I didn't know anything about it. And so I didn't, it didn't seem to be the real estate business for me.
It seemed to be some other magical, mystical thing that I just had no idea about, but. Um, to answer your question, you know, by the time, uh, you know, I had done it, I sort of had my own company for, you know, maybe 7, 8, 10 years, you know, by then I had had a lot of success, uh, in developing real estate and I created a lot of relationships and, uh, both, uh, you know, [00:20:00] political Goodwill and Goodwill amongst, uh, capital sources and what have you.
And I, I also got a lot of confidence and I just sort of had a, sort of an interesting opportunity come my way, which didn't make sense for my typical development scheme. But it made sense if you were to do transient occupancy or a hotel, there was a way to develop the property in a way that was more dynamic than if you wanted to do traditional mixed use and.
I when the project was originally presented to me, I just sort of dismissed it out of hand because it just wasn't something that I, I was focused on, but I don't know what happened. I, I, I think I just sort of dawned on me that, you know, maybe I could actually do a hotel that perhaps was a little bit different than what had I had seen in particular in Los Angeles at [00:21:00] that time.
And really what that was was I said, I sort of, my premise was that I thought that there would be an opportunity to do a hotel that was more of a piano tear. It was more of a residential style hotel because that really did exist in Los Angeles. Uh, and I, I knew there was a market for it because I, I, I knew that there was a lot of fashion entertainment, multimedia, you know, film, television, uh, people that were in LA for extended periods of time.
And they were either staying at shitty. Uh, furnished apartments or they were staying in traditional hotels, but just for a really long period of time. And so I, I just had deep local knowledge with respect to that. So my premise was, well, why don't I just create a place that had these piano tears that was more of a lodging style property and create a little cafe and a bar, uh, and create this environment that was appropriate for those people.
Uh, and so I just sort of took the leap of [00:22:00] faith and cashed in on a lot of my, you know, political, uh, connections, my social connections, my capital connections, and scrapped it together and built my first hotel and, and opened in 2000 and late 2007, early 2008. And you know, I, it was such a quirky. Project and such a quirky product that I didn't really, I couldn't find anybody who was interested in running it because nobody really understood what it was.
So I didn't know anybody, I didn't know any operators or really didn't know any food and beverage operators or hotel operators. And I tried to beat as many people as I could. I remember sort of, I would leave all of these meetings going
and these people, I just, I don't think I can trust them with this, with this enterprise. And so I just sorta decided to do it myself and, [00:23:00] you know, trial by fire. But, uh, despite all of the mistakes that I made the property itself was very successful because my premise was ultimately. Correct. And the market really did perceive it quite well.
And that was essentially the springboard into hospitality.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I think that's one of the things that I find so intriguing about what you've done with Palle society and poly house as well, is
Avi Brosh: that
you are,
Dan Ryan: are unique amongst your competitive set in the sense that I'm sure there are others that do this, where you control the entire vertical. Right. So from design to purchase to management, like you're, you're a complete, one-stop fully integrated shop and I'm wondering. You've mentioned before that you were a fan of hospitality.
What were those parts, those quirky parts you mentioned of [00:24:00] being a fan of hospitality that helped you get to this place where you wanted to bring it all into one vertical?
Avi Brosh: Yeah, I think it's sort of parallel paths, but what I would say is that the hotels that I really loved were the ones that were able to tell a story about their place.
And, um, you know, whether you would sort of from their placemaking, it was less about, I suppose, design sensibility. It was more about a story that they were telling about the kind of experience that they intended for you to have in the hotel. And, uh, so I was a huge fan of people that did that incredibly well.
And sometimes. You know, people got it right. A very on an intention basis and sometimes they got it right. As sort of accidentally. Who were you,
Dan Ryan: who were your biggest? Um, like if you were to say you were the strongest fan boy towards specific projects or properties, what would they have been like? [00:25:00]
Avi Brosh: Gosh, you know, I w I it's, you know, I was a huge at the very early on, you know, the Ian Schrager, um, Felipe star collaborations, I think at the beginning, I just never seen anything like that.
And so, uh, you know, I, I, and, you know, it's funny, like when I think back on those, um, it was just a complete paradigm shift. And so if you are a somebody who was interested in design or placemaking or tone, and you were sensitive to it, light lighting levels, music levels, food, fashion, design, um, It was a ma it was just a game changer.
And so I really loved that. And I think even before that, I remember I went to, um, custody clear.
Dan Ryan: Would that be more like Mondrian
Avi Brosh: on sunset? No, this is, this is more New York. I would say this was more, my first experience with Felipe stark was, um, cafe costs in Paris [00:26:00] where I'd never seen a urinal wall before where you literally peed on the wall, which I thought was like, you know, when you're impressionable young person and the thought that that particular cafe was actually beautiful and had a lot of things about it that I'd never seen.
And of course, um, with Morgan's, which was really my first experience or first entree into that think it was just a game changer. And, you know, I think a lot, I think today, you know, we w you know, there's been so much, uh, you know, a huge evolution in, in place-making since then, but that was a really a huge.
You know, Morgan's paramount, um, uh, uh, Royalton was in the Royalton. So those, you know, those were all just really inspirational. I think that it wasn't like necessarily my aesthetic per se, but, uh, it was just, you know, the tone aspects of what is, and, you know, I'm just old enough to have been there and appreciate it as a young person.
A lot of people, [00:27:00] I would say my contemporaries I've never even been to those properties. So I think, I think also when you,
Dan Ryan: you said something, you referred to it as place-making really, which just really struck a chord with me, because if I think about and see what you're doing and how you've brought it all inside and kind of what they were.
Stark was also doing then it's really this sense of place. Is this all inclusive? Like you say, it's all the things that touch it. It's the fashion, the art, the music, the film, the entertainment, but also this really incredibly strong sense of place.
Avi Brosh: And
Dan Ryan: if you think about place-making and not inspiration for you and kind of what you're doing right now with Palle.
Yeah. How does
Avi Brosh: that
Dan Ryan: help you define your thesis and what hospitality is at each of the projects that you're working on, the existing and the new ones?
Avi Brosh: Well, I want to, I'm going to answer that question, but I want to kind of go back a little bit too, because I want to also sort of, [00:28:00] you know, that the other thing, you know, since I was young and, and, and, and had the ability to experience lots of places, you know, there were also some other people doing things that in my mind were just, you know, incredible.
And, and that were in a lot of ways, even more informative to what I was started to think about, which gave me confidence. So there, um, you know, uh, back when I was in, you know, late high school, early college, it was a place called area that opened on Hudson down in Tribeca, which was like also. A completely different than, you know, the Schrager, Felipe stark collaboration cause a much more downtown in terms of its sensibility.
But that Le that was so impressionistic on my mind, uh, in terms of their ability to create a different kind of tone, which was much more, I would say downtown, you know, and then, you know, followed up by that as, you know, the, all the Keith McNally restaurants early on ODI on and, uh, you know, [00:29:00] obviously a Schiller's and pasties and all these other, you know, and, uh, I got a blanking on the lucky, lucky, and then the other one on.
There the Russian. So these places were, you know, incredibly impressionistic. And I think what they were doing was Sonic kind of creating an environment that manufacturing and environment that didn't feel manufactured. Right. So you really felt like you were in Paris or wherever else. And so that was really incredible.
And then, you know, so, so you know, these guys are, you know, we're very impressionistic, uh, made a huge impression on me. It's
Dan Ryan: really just to go on the past east side. And I love that. He said that, cause you know, it's shut down and then they just reopened it. I dunno, just before the pandemic. And I swear you walk in there and I know that you say it's not [00:30:00] manufactured because you do feel like you're in Paris when you're there, but they were able in some crazy.
To make that new location feel exactly like it's smelled the same. The lighting was exactly the same. They even one of the dogs or the doorman from the old one was a data, my kid's school. And they brought him back and he was the doorman again.
Avi Brosh: And it was just like, the attention
Dan Ryan: to that level of detail is freaking incredible.
Avi Brosh: Well, you know, that should not have worked, you know, to close it down and reopen it, shouldn't have worked. And I was very skeptical, but you know, in a lot of ways, I think it's better than the, than the last one, but, but, you know, so to, to, to tie it back to, to me, you know, my idea was, you know, how do you create this all encompassing sort of, uh, experience and, and, and try and, uh, target it into.
Lodging. Uh, I, uh, you know, and it's not, I'm, I wasn't, I'm not the first person to do that, you know, by any means, you know, there's a lot of unbelievable [00:31:00] hoteliers and storytellers out there that I think do an incredible job. I was not the only one I just was. I was early in doing it in Los Angeles. Right.
There was just wasn't there wasn't anything like that really in LA. And my first hotel Palle house was Hollywood in a lot of ways, kind of brought that sensibility in my own sort of novice, uh, freshmen, try at a hotel. But I brought some, I was able to bring some of that to the table and I got rewarded for it, uh, because people gravitated towards, towards that.
Obviously when you do a hotel, then the numbers, you know, as opposed to a restaurant, let's just say, you know, the numbers are bigger, the risks are bigger, the moving parts are more. And I just thought that I could insert mice after the first hotel. I thought, you know, I could just sort of insert myself in a big way in terms of the personality and I just thought I would do it myself. And I would just sort of take on [00:32:00] everything myself, because that's what I, that's what, that's what, you know, my, my, you know, that's what my sort of my, uh, You know, the people that I admired the most, that's what they did. Obviously they had help, but, you know, they, it was singular vision.
And I, I just sort of thought that that was the road that I wanted to go down. I knew that that probably was expensive, meaning I probably would be less prolific early, uh, as opposed to high, you know, trying to bring on a established brand and attach them to project and sort of walk away and let them do that thing.
I knew that, but it was just more authentic to the way that I wanted to do it. Um, which I think is, uh, you know, a fairly consistent theme in terms of my professional career, which is, you know, to probably take a slightly broad, less travel and try and be as connected to the work as I, as I could be. Um, and, and try and, you know, [00:33:00] Have an outlet for my ego, which is, you know, I have a big ego.
And so it was a way for me to, to have, uh, to have an outlet, to express myself in that way from a, not only a creative way, but also from a business perspective. And you mentioned,
Dan Ryan: you mentioned like a singular vision. I think that's what you said, but to me, as far as what I'm getting from you is really an uncompromising vision.
Right? You have, you're so clear. And if you think about I'm sure who many of your heroes
Avi Brosh: are,
Dan Ryan: it's that uncompromising vision that at all costs, they are going to get from point a to point B and people will fall by the wayside along the way, but you get there. Where do you think that came from?
Avi Brosh: I just, you know, I, I, you know, some people are born with a chip on their shoulder and have a little bit of a punk rock kind of attitude about life and about.
You know, zigging when you should zag and [00:34:00] I'm just that kind of a personality. Um, I think it's mellowed, you know, as I've gotten older, but you know, especially early in my career, I was just, you know, I was just a very contrarian top to bottom. And so I reveled in that it gave me energy. It gave me, um, you know, it was just part of who I was as a person.
Uh, you know, I was not sort of indignant or in any way, you know, disrespectful, but I, for my own personal life, I just want it to be more along the lines of my, you know, these people that really inspired me, which was to have to do something that wasn't existing already. You know, that's what got me charged up.
And even though a lot of people have. You know, criticized some people for just recreating to a fault, you know, a, a cafe or a, you know, or whatever. It might be an environment. You know, I sort of disagree with that. You know, it's not an [00:35:00] easy thing to do to create something that makes you feel a certain way.
And so I agree. And so I just really feel, I have so much respect for, you know, You know, and there's many, you know, now, now there's, you know, a lot of people, I, I think do an incredible job and I I'm a fan, frankly. Um, and, uh, but I think for me, early days in Los Angeles, I just had a little bit of a headstart with respect to that.
And, uh, and so I was able to, you know, even though I didn't, I hope in my first hotel, not at the most opportune time, um, I was able to bring my, you know, my, my real estate savvy and my capital market savvy and my just, you know, my, my life experienced savvy to navigate through the global financial crisis in a way where I was able to get out through the other side and, you know, build the platform that I have today.
And when
Dan Ryan: we think of your uncompromising
Avi Brosh: vision
Dan Ryan: of what you're [00:36:00] delivering to the universe and what you're delivering to the marketplace. And how does that tie, like if you were to describe hospitality, In front, from your, your uncompromising perspective, how do you define it?
Avi Brosh: You know, I it's, uh, it's a great question because hospitality, I think means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
And when I first started, I didn't know, really, I didn't really know how to really do hospitality. I think you kind of learn as you go. One of the things about, um, about hospitality is I think when you got into inside a physical space, you thought that the kind of hospitality you provide has to be on point with that physical space and what the, what the customer expectation level is.
And so, you know, I'm very particular at our hotels [00:37:00] and restaurants and what have you, um, that. It's a certain kind of hospitality, which is not the same hospitality you would get at a, you know, uh, you know, at a four seasons in you know, Paris it's different. And then, uh, the motel six, uh, in, uh, off a highway, you know, and in Cincinnati, it's just gonna it's you have to decide what it is that you want to deliver in terms of the style of person, of, of hospitality you want to deliver, which you don't, you know, that's not something you figured out in a year or two or three, you know, it's, it's, it's taken a while to kind of pinpoint what that is.
And, um, and so, you know, my role as a CEO now, uh, you know, with a lot of properties across the country is to be able to communicate, you know, through our team, uh, the, what that level of hospitality is and should be [00:38:00] for our properties and as a CEO, to be able to, to. The space for that hospitality to be delivered.
And for the, you know, the teams on the property level to deliver that level of hospitality. And I think that it has to be for me, something that's repeatable and it has to be consistent. Sometimes you might get a, a manager at a property that is particularly strong in a certain area, or has a particular personality and people respond positively or negatively to it.
And those things you can't ever, uh, you can't control down to that. But I think you can give people the tools to create hospitality. I, you know, my experience is that at the property level, people like for you to know your, their name and they like for you to remember, you know, what they like to drink and.
And I think people generally like good housekeeping and a, and a [00:39:00] really good cup of coffee and, um, and just a friendly environment. I don't think that you need to be over the top on any level. I think if you want over the top, you go to a different place, not our place. Uh, and, and, and so I think that what we've gotten really good at, in particular over the last, you know, I would say five years is really honing in on what the expectation level is for our on property teams, but also communicating very early in the guest experience, what the expectation level should be.
So are, so the expectation and reality meet, uh, a lot of, you know, that's what happens when people. R, uh, you know, disenfranchised to your hospitality is that they are expecting one thing and they get something different. And I think that that's when people, uh, you know, get, get annoyed. The other thing, I think one of the thing I think is really important for people to [00:40:00] hear is that you don't always get it right.
You know? And I think that, you know, I don't care if you stay at the Amman in Tokyo where they're meticulous about their hospitality and a certain brand of it. You know, they have off days or the customer or something happens, you just know. And I think part of hospitality is guest recovery. And a lot of times, you know, people remember you more for your guest recovery than they actually do than something that goes off.
Let's just say flawlessly. And so I think, you know, you'll have to get, that's not something you learn in, no one tells you that at the beginning. Right. And I'm certainly, nobody's told me that. So, you know, you learn as you go. And, um, and so I think, you know, we've just honed in, you know, it's like putting in, you're putting in your time and understanding your properties and creating the expectation and connecting that to the reality of the experience and try and get it right more times than not.
And as you're
Dan Ryan: on this path of [00:41:00] growth, I've heard like this, you know, some tension between, okay, so you have your CEO hat on, you have this track record, you have all, all of your success behind you in great teams everywhere. There's this idea of. Guests management, delivering hospitality, guests, recovery, and you want to scale that you're making systems and processes.
But one of the things that early on in our conversations is you you're wearing that hat, but also if you were to put on your modern day innkeeper hat, like how do you, okay, I understand as you're scaling, you want to have these things and you want to have manage your teams everywhere, but you're also, you have your own way of doing it as the modern day innkeeper, which I just love that.
How do you reconcile that? And balanced
Avi Brosh: that it's a good question. You know, it's a lot easier than you would think. And the reason it's easier than you think is that, um, you know, our hotels are small in size by design. [00:42:00] And because of that, we get to really know our guests. We get a lot of repeat customers, um, and we're able to wrap our arms around the experience for the most part, uh, for people.
And so that's a huge plus it's not like we have a thousand room convention center hotel where there's no way that you can really keep tabs if anything, and you know, that's just a different business. So, so we're, we, we, we have a much more of an innkeeper, uh, mentality. That's number one, the size is just such that we're able to, I think people meet more, be more personalized.
One, two is it cannot be overstated. How important systems, protocols, and procedures are, and being able to create a scenario where. It's really not that challenging for our onsite teams to execute those, trying to take away from them. A lot of things that are not about the quality of guest [00:43:00] experience, like whatever counting bottles or, you know, whatever, uh, you know, handling, dealing with food costs or, uh, you know, some of these ministerial things that really are more P and L focused, uh, and really stripping that away from the people that are guest-facing.
And so they're able to just be friendly. And I think that we're looking for people to be friendly and trustee, and I think you can instill that in the property teams without actually being there. That being said, when the managers are there, they need to lead by example, which, you know, if there's a paper on the floor, I remember when I first started, there was a guy, you know, there was a gentleman that worked for me.
And I remember I would go to the properties I've been down and pick up paper and he would just, he was just mortified, you know, because that, you know, in the hotel world that, you know, owners or, you know, senior people, you know, would just point to it and. At the beginning. I was so [00:44:00] self-conscious. I was like, oh, you know, what am I, you know, I, I really feel the urge to pick up that paper to, you know, whatever bus a table and, you know, for a while I didn't do it because I thought that maybe that wasn't becoming, but after a while, I just couldn't help myself.
You know? So now when I go to hotels, I don't care. I'll talk to people, I'll bus a table, I'll, you know, uh, you know, uh, uh, look at dust levels in different areas. I mean, I'm sort of like a classic, um, you know, a little bit of a classic, uh, proprietor. And so I'm just teaching people to be their own proprietors.
Uh, whether they're, you know, front desk agents or area general managers or president of the company, if you don't have a proprietary. Sort of sensibility. Uh, it's very, it's difficult to do, but you know, people, if you have pride in these spaces and I just, you know, and I just lead by [00:45:00] example, I go to all the properties on a regular basis and I just go in there.
They don't love it when I'm there, because I'm a little bit of a tyrant, but, you know, I it's, what's important. I think, you know, the physical maintenance of these assets in a friendly environment are, you know, if you can't do that, you know, you really shouldn't be in the well, I also
Dan Ryan: think, like when you say tyrant, you also think about like the uncompromising vision, right?
So, yeah, you're there, but if I think about, okay, so now you can do all the, all the best you can to control the guest experience, right? How you're delivering hospitality, how you're making them feel. Something that really jumped out of what you were saying to me was this idea of guest recovery, because oftentimes they might not remember all those intentional things you're doing, but where you can really win someone over.
It's through guest recovery. So I'd love to hear a story about that. And then if you think about it as you're scaling and growing, and you think about the systems and processes,
Avi Brosh: how [00:46:00] do you give your teams,
Dan Ryan: the bandwidth or the leeway to have a successful guest
Avi Brosh: recovery when that happens? You know, it's so funny that you asked me that because I literally, this morning, uh, there, you know, we have, uh, we have, uh, the guests and the community have, uh, an easy way to get in touch with us about whatever their issues are and you can't please everybody all the time, you know?
So let's just be clear about that. But, um, I, this just this morning, got it. You know, there was an email that came in from a neighbor at a hotel and the kitchen was playing music. At 6:00 AM and they called over to the hotel, uh, nicely and, uh, asked them to turn it down and they, and, and, and let's just put it this way.
It didn't happen quickly enough or with the right amount of respect. So what [00:47:00] you, what you have to do in those circumstances and to say, I, I, I used to get annoyed beyond belief, right? And you just get very upset and take it very personally. But what you need to do is take those things as a real opportunity to let the on-property teams, uh, you know, really be hospitable.
So we, we encourage the team to reach out to the, to the, to the neighbor and obviously, you know, beyond the regular apology, but then we shower them with hospitality. We invite them in for drinks or dinner. We invite them in to come stay or whatever it is. It's really an opportunity to go above and beyond to create, uh, this sense of, um, uh, an experience where that goes from an extreme, negative into an extreme positive.
And that's just something you foster at the corporate level and you [00:48:00] demand it. And, um, and you just lead by example and you, you, you try not to get upset over a lot of things that really are more common sense space than you. You, you, you sort of give the entire team top to bottom to be the ability to overcompensate and.
Yeah, in my mind, that's the right approach. And then, you
Dan Ryan: know, we, we hear these stories of, I believe it was Ritz-Carlton that they would give everyone in there in the employee at a hotel. Hey, if there's a guest situation and there's a recovery, you guys have $500 at your disposal to make anything go away without even thinking.
And then that, that seems to be a relatively easy thing to kind of roll out and communicate to everyone. Do you have any
Avi Brosh: secrets or know, like my secret would be, uh, you know, having been on the, on the receiving end of. You know, some of that and whatever, you know, it, it only works if it [00:49:00] feels sincere, you have some manager at some Ritz at some random place that is annoyed because he's got to spend $500 and he's just trying to, whatever to make you go away.
That's worse. That makes the problem worse. It doesn't make the problem better. So my secret is really about, you know, uh, not just comping something that just doesn't get the job done. There has to be something memorable about the experience has to be done, uh, you know, in good spirit and in the right with the right intent.
And, you know, you know, not, it's not, it's not going to happen all the time, but you, you want to try and create that experience more times than not. So I'm not a huge fan of like blanket, you know, uh, budgets. I don't think that that matters because, um, If, if, if someone checks into the, you know, but let's just say someone checks into hotel, isn't feeling well, um, and you send them camomile tea and [00:50:00] cookies that costs you $3.
That's so much more valuable than anything else that you could ever do. And you in that casino and that's real hospitality, that's in keeping. So especially if you know, they
Dan Ryan: prefer a meal, versus
Avi Brosh: if you can, if you can get there, then, you know, that's probably someone who's staying in your, in your, in your, actually your guest house.
But, but I think. Uh, but I think, you know, we want to try and infuse that as, as much as we can into the overall process. Not easy to do all the time, but I think if you at least start with that intent, you know, you're going to get it right more times than not.
Dan Ryan: I totally agree. And that's where I was trying to get into that balance between CEO and like having systems and processes and everything running.
But then also balancing that with innkeeper where, you know, at the very beginning, it's like, I want to, I want them to say their name, but you know, some hotels have a policy where it's when a guest checks in, say their name three times, it's very prescriptive. Right. And it's almost like a robot. It's just like [00:51:00] that general manager you were referring to.
Yeah. Oh, here I'll copy. Whatever. It's not there. It's how do you find out they like Earl gray or a mile and make up for it in that. Open hearted way. It's almost as if you have to be so incredibly empathetic to each and every guest that walks through and just know what they want and what turns them off.
Yeah.
Avi Brosh: I don't think that the answer is, you know, I'd love to say yes, but that's actually not what it is. It's like, you know, to use a sport sports metaphor, you know, I think that it's better to play zone defense than man to man. And the reason is is that if you, as a team are, you know, sort of. Uh, collectively know what position to take, depending on what happens.
Not every single guest needs that same level of handholding that others do. So it's really better to take, uh, you know, sort of this collective team approach to some of this stuff. [00:52:00] Um, and in that really just his tone and we're not big on scripts, uh, and we're not, you know, we don't, we don't have name to name tags, you know, we do have uniforms, but, um, you know, the uniform is part of the place-making frankly.
And, um, you know, I think that, that's what, um, I think that's what. You know, hotels and restaurants do well is, you know, they're just kind of, they kind of leave you to have a good experience. Um, but if you needed a little extra hand-holding or something that it's available for you,
Dan Ryan: so you did your first hotel in the midst of the global financial crisis, or just after it was all happening right around, right in the middle of it.
Not a great time. So you've survived, you're growing, you were hit with this pandemic, um, and you're still growing and, and getting it right and, and delivering your service to everyone and make and getting to know your customers and delighting people. [00:53:00] What's exciting. You most about the future as you've come through
Avi Brosh: this?
Um, you know, I think that when you're first starting in business, Uh, especially in, in any business and in particular and hotels, I think that if you're a prolific person like myself, I, my frustration level would really lied within not being able to do. And, you know, I want her to do more and, you know, being able to do more, uh, and, and, and, and perhaps not having the track record to do it, or, or, or, uh, you know, the awareness, having the patience to, you know, just get up and do the best thing to get up every day and just kind of doing the best you can and just try and, you know, push things forward.
Uh, so I would say on one level now, where we sit today is. You know, we have quite a robust pipeline. And so I'm really excited. I love being busy and I love working on all of those things and I [00:54:00] love making all those spaces and I can do them incredibly prolifically. And I love that. So I'm very excited about that.
The other thing that I'm really excited about is there's really three other things. One is I'm excited about having the opportunity to take our portfolio of brands and maybe doing them outside of the us. Um, I just think that there's probably some there's room for a cool in, in just about every market in the world.
And so, um, you know, I, I, I eventually want to be able to transition into, um, you know, doing stuff more internationally. I just think that that is another box to check as a brand and just from my own personal growth. Any particular continent first, you know, I w you know, I think we're relevant. I think, you know, in Canada and Mexico first, I think because [00:55:00] we were, it's easy for us to get to, and I think that it's not a stretch.
And I think that makes to me the most immediate sense, but that being said, I'm sort of agnostic in terms of what that is. We've had conversations with people in lots of different places, um, and you know, it has to be obviously the right fit. Um, so that's one number two is, you know, I'm really interested in exploring now for the brand, um, other.
Collaborations partnerships, strategic alliances in a way where, uh, it sort of transcends a little bit of just the one-off hotel business. And so I kinda, we're having some interesting discussions in a variety of different places about what that means. And, uh, so that's kind of exciting. And I, I want to try and engage my own curiosity.
What that is, and, uh, continue to grow the brand that way.
Dan Ryan: Just on that one a little bit, [00:56:00] like if I were to give you a magic wand right now, and anything was possible on that idea of collaborations and alliances, like what's the perfect outcome. There's no, you're not encumbered in any way, shape or form.
Let's do it tomorrow.
Avi Brosh: You know,
I feel like I'd be giving too much away by telling you only because I, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're sort of a little bit down the road on a couple of new thoughts and ideas, which in my mind are the perfect thing that I want to do. And so, um, uh, I'm going to keep that a little close to the vest cause we've got a couple of things that we're working on that I think are really interesting and dynamic.
Really three things. And that I think to me represent what I think the perfect things are, but I think it's a little early to say, but what I would say is there, these three things we're working on are, you know, just new ideas about, uh, growing the brand or, you know, in a sort of, uh, slightly different verticals.
And so, um, I'm excited about what that, [00:57:00] that potential is there. And, uh, we need a little bit more time to, uh, to, uh, you know, bake those a little bit more. Um, and then, uh, and then, you know, and, you know, and then on, uh, in terms of the third, you know,
My son who's 25, uh, is, works in the business with us. Uh, and, um, my wife works in the business with, with me and us. Uh, she has, uh, you know, very, very important role and has been such an important aspects to helping us get to where we are today. She heads up. I mean, today, technically she sort of heads up all of the brands, the brands, the branding, the, you know, how we interact and interface with the, with the general public.
But, uh, and she's done an absolutely heroic job there, but, you [00:58:00] know, the reality is early on when we were growing this, we were all hands on deck. And I would say that she was a much better manager and a facilitator than I was. And so, um, uh, but the point really just being that. It being a family business ultimately is something that I, you know, it's, it's hard to put into words how rewarding that is in terms of, uh, the accomplishments and being able to share all of the really positive things that happen.
And also to prop each other up when things perhaps don't go perfectly is a gift, you know, and it's something that I really don't ever take for granted. And it's, it's, you know, it's not a job in that way. You know, this business is a lifestyle business for us, and I think it shines through in a lot of ways.
And so, uh, I love that about it. I also have a daughter [00:59:00] who I've been recruiting for 10 years about, I don't know, she might not, she might not ever get in, but, um, uh, but, um, No, I love that. I love that aspect of our business. If you
Dan Ryan: can do the family business, I've seen so many family businesses go off the rails the wrong way, but the ones that can really manage it.
And it's that legacy of not just compounding dollars, but really compounding relationships, compounding feelings, compounding love, like it is just so incredible and inspiring. Those family businesses are done
Avi Brosh: the right way. Yeah. I think there's a lot of wrong ways to do it. You know, nepotism is, is, can be really disruptive, but you know, to, to, uh, you know, , you know, to my son's great credit, you know, his ambition is equal to his humbleness.
And so, um, you know, he's doing it the right way. Uh, and you know, [01:00:00] that's not something you can teach somebody, they either have that sensibility or they don't. And so, um, so in that way, you know, it makes me so proud to. Watch that the other thing I think that's really positive is I don't really, you know, myself and my son, well, we don't deal with each other on a day-to-day basis.
He, he, he, he he's, he's in a different part of the business. Um, uh, but my, you know, my wife and I, we have also really figured out a way to collaborate it, you know, it was, uh, it's such a personal endeavor that, and we're both strong personalities, you know, I think that it took a while to figure out how to do it and build trust and to kind of almost have like a division of labor, but we've kind of figured that out now.
And it's, you know, it's like, It's surprisingly, you know, you know, positive part of our life. And obviously success is helpful, uh, uh, [01:01:00] to, to that, because, you know, you can pound your head against the wall for all these so long. Um, so yeah, no, I, I, I don't necessarily have a formula for success. I think, you know, you either the personalities or the either there, or they're not, I'm not a micromanager.
Uh, and so I don't really, you know, I, I think early on I, I was a little bit more into, I've just my, you know, when you have, when you're trying to figure something out, you try and get under the covers, you know, under the hood with everything. But I think now not so much. And I also think those with.
Dan Ryan: Clear, uncompromising vision.
I'm sorry. I keep going back to there because I just I'm picking it up. If you are that clear with your vision, you're very easy. It's very easy to create all the metrics and KPIs and all the things that need to happen to support you, to get there where micromanagement is not essential. You're just, you're clear on where you need to go.
You're clear on how to get there, and then you surround yourself with the people to help
Avi Brosh: you get there. Yeah. [01:02:00] I, you know, it's cliche, but it's true. Uh, meaning, you know, surrounding yourself with the right people, you hear that a lot, obviously. And, and I, and I was so used to doing a kind of, I was used to doing all the heavy lifting for so many years that I just thought that that was my destiny was to just kind of, you know, just always have a point of view about how to do stuff and what I've really, you know, the big difference for us as a company, uh, was really bringing in like-minded team members that were.
Much, better executives than myself. And those people really are the heart and soul of our company. They're the ones that really make the, make things go on. I, I, but I haven't really given up yet on creating this tone, the spray particular tone and aesthetic and vision and, uh, sensibility and vision, uh, and this sort of pathway [01:03:00] forward about what's next.
And why is that interesting and exciting? You know, that I still rests pretty heavily on me, which I thoroughly enjoy. Uh, and, um, but yeah, I think you have to provide a beacon and then if you do that, I think people rise to the occasion. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Well, I find it incredibly inspiring with, uh, you and your wife and your family involved in this.
And just for me, I'm so excited to get to know you because my goal in life is to be an innkeeper. At some point, I believe I shared that with you. And I think through all of these conversations about how, how I'm learning about the best of hospitality and delivering, it's only going to serve me on that journey.
And in a way, this conversation is shortening my journey to get there, because like,
Avi Brosh: I'm just
Dan Ryan: new to know you, but I've known of, of what you're doing. And it's, so you get to turn me [01:04:00] into a fan boy now, too.
Avi Brosh: So, uh, well my desk, my best advice for you is to just do it. Yeah. You know, like, you know, I, I, a lot of it is you just got to fake it till you make it.
And, uh, uh, you know, it's true. You just got to do it. If you, if you understand business and you understand, you know, uh, some of the basics, um, you know, when you do it in a small bite size sort of piece of risk, We just do it. Are you still playing
Dan Ryan: basketball?
Avi Brosh: I'm not, I'm not playing basketball. Um, no, but, uh, but no, I, I, I, you know, I would, uh, I'm not playing basketball.
It's okay.
Dan Ryan: If you, um, let's pretend you go back to, uh, you're in the lower east side, you're a senior in high school. You're going to find Mr. . Yeah. And then you, as you right now can appear next to yourself there and you can pull yourself aside. You're on Ludlow street. [01:05:00] It's a 1980 something and you give yourself some advice.
What advice do you give yourself?
Avi Brosh: You know, Mike, I'm going to try to answer this. You know, I always sort of had an underlying, despite what was going on, even when you're 16, 17, 18, and you know, all the way, you know, I think people have this, some, some parts of it, which is that, you know, even though I really was not aware of what was in front of me, I always sort of had an underlying confidence and belief in my ability to have success in my life and there's been death, you know, and, and that doesn't mean necessarily financial success, but, you know, just to kind of, um, create a lifestyle for myself that I thought was successful.
[01:06:00] And I would have just told myself to. Just keep believing in myself and just, you know, you may not know everything and you don't know what the future holds and sometimes you go left and sometimes you go, right. And, and you, you, you, you sort of make these sort of conscious and subconscious decisions along the way.
But I think it just having a underlying belief that you're going to end up, uh, in, in, in the right spot more times than not, you don't always end up in the right spot. I've obviously like everybody else has had some tough, tough times, but you've just got to keep going. And I think that, that's the one thing that I remember about being that age, um, was that even though I felt misunderstood sometimes because even though I just sort of always sensed that I could get this done and I would have just encouraged.
[01:07:00] If I could go back and do that, I would just say, you know, keep, keep believing and keep going and just get up every day and do the best you can. I think that's really all that you can do and, and buy apple stock.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, totally. I knock up the
Avi Brosh: truck on it. Right.
Dan Ryan: But, uh, I, I totally agree with you. All we can do, all anyone can do is the best that they can every single day.
So thank you for sharing that. Um, how can people find you and connect with you and learn more about what you're doing? Well,
Avi Brosh: I'm obviously on the, on our website, uh, Pally society.com. Uh, I'm also on Instagram at, uh, uh, at Avi brush. Great. And that's it. And so. You know, um, uh, also happy to field any questions that people have.
They can always email me, uh, through the website. Perfect.
Dan Ryan: Um, [01:08:00] I just want to say thank you so much for your time. It's been so great to get to know you and that like, in a way, I feel like I'm, I'm following your lead.
Avi Brosh: You know, it's been my pleasure and, you know, I will say, I, you know, in this business have a lotta, you know, you meet a lot of people, uh, but you know, your, uh, genuine inquisitiveness and interest and thoughtfulness, uh, is, you know, been a nice, uh, it's been really nice to be a part of.
And, uh, I hope that we can continue this friendship after this, uh, after you used me up on the podcast. Oh, we
Dan Ryan: definitely will. Cause I'm definitely going to be in touch with you. I also want to thank our listeners. If this has just changed or enlightened you in some way about how to give or receive hospitality.
Please share it. We're growing. We love it. And uh, thank you everyone. We'll see you next time.
[01:09:00]