Defining Hospitality

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Dan Ryan: Welcome everyone. Today's guest is a hospitality heroine. She's a strong leader. She has a keen eye for renovation. She's the director of design for park hotels and resorts. Ladies and gentlemen, Christina Flannery.
Hey Christina, how are you? Welcome.
Christina Flannery: Hey Dan. Thanks so much for
Dan Ryan: having me. I'm so glad to have you on obviously. We are our vocation and our day job is, um, you know, w we're always kind of around the same things and working on the same projects. But I think what I appreciate so much about you is it's not just about what we do, right?
It's like, why are [00:01:00] you doing what you're doing? And what gets you out of bed every day to help this, especially, you know, in such a big story. Park hotels as the spin-out of all the owned assets from Hilton. It's just so awesome how that's happened and kind of what the world's thrown at you in the process of that.
And now it's Hey, so what's the glide path coming out, but I'm so happy and, and just grateful.
Christina Flannery: Absolutely. And thanks so much for giving me the opportunity to kind of chat about hospitality and, and my path and what a great experience park has been, um, coming out I've I've been with park now for a little over five years.
Um, and while it would erode it has been just with this industry. Um, you know, we've, we've chatted about hospitality in the past, and I think it's one of the most fulfilling, uh, careers and communities out there. Um, especially over the course of the last two years, I just [00:02:00] am wowed about how so many people have come together in a time where.
Basically, we were all shut down in our industry. You know, people were not traveling, we weren't going to events. We weren't meeting, we weren't having conferences. Uh, we weren't renovating, you know, our hotels were sitting there. Um, and we were waiting for our guests. Um, so, so patiently to arrive and, and, and there is a light here, uh, now at the end of the tunnel.
And I think that is the most exciting part is that we. To go back to being, you know, vocation, that we've all dedicated our lives to. And
Dan Ryan: well, Christina, speaking of that, and also on your journey, I think on your career path, I think what's super interesting is we always see our, from my perspective, I always see so many people that are in hospitality. And everything that they learned from that as far as on the built environment from whether it's design, construction, you name it, [00:03:00] oftentimes I'll see a lot of them matriculate from hospitality, into multi-family or into healthcare or into these other areas.
What I love about your path is you went from starting in design. Then you go, you work at Marriott, you're doing hosp hospitality. Then you go into multi-family, but then you come back and I'm curious. What was the main draw to bring you back into POS fatality?
Christina Flannery: Yeah, so, you know, my experience even starting out from my first job out of college, I was exposed to all aspects of design.
I was doing healthcare. I was doing education. I had some hospitality, small scale restaurants going on. Um, and my, and my first big break was the Hilton in ocean city, Maryland. Project. And I know from going through that experience, the day that that was put on my desk, hospitality was just what brought out the energy in me.
And so worked on that for about two and a half years, and then [00:04:00] was able to be picked up by, by Marriott to help with the. Focused service and refreshing, uh, courtyard refreshing business program, which was incredible because, um, that was, you know, back then one of the largest, uh, renovation projects that was going on in our industry at the time.
And I just love the vibe. I love the engagement of from, you know, even the ground level of property, uh, folks and how they treated. To how we engaged with the guest and what we saw their habits being and how we designed around that. And, you know, that was so fulfilling to see that people were actually using our design the way that it was supposed to be and, and watching and learning.
I was young in my career and, and having such great mentors in the industry who are still over there today. Um, you know, it was really a proud moment to, to be involved in that. And, you know, the opportunities they always kind of come up when you least expect them. Um, I had a friend that, [00:05:00] uh, said, Hey, look, you know, there's a, a multifamily real estate investment trust.
That's looking to bring hospitality into their world and you, you should really talk to them. And, and I said, I know nothing about, you know, apartments or multi-family living,
Dan Ryan: but I also want, it's not just a multifamily real estate investment trust. It's a really big deal in that space. Like it's, it's like one of the biggest
Christina Flannery: and best, you know, Avalon bay.
That's awesome. Um, and what was really cool was, you know, My boss at the time, wanted to invest in interior design. He wanted to bring in the firms that were working on the hotel projects. You know, he had passion for that. And, and that was really inspiring too, because we were able to bring those amenities to, you know, everyday living and especially.
The cities and you're on the go and you're engaging. You want those fun amenities, like fitness centers and dog parks and, you know, um, [00:06:00] open kitchens, you know, that whole open kitchen concept, which is now super trending in residential, you know, started in that multifamily world. And that was about the gathering table in hotels.
You know, you gather around. The the large communal table. And then it translated home to having people over. And then the hospitality is not only, you know, in hotels, but now it's in your home and it's in your everyday life. And so for me, it all kind of came together. Um, and it always really relieved. And I never really thought about it as going out of hospitality and coming back because I was able to bring those, those, um, experiences and those energy levels of what hospitality really means, which is engaging in social and, and just community.
And bringing that into apartment living, um, was really, really inspiring and, and gave me a lot of, uh, passions. For building that kind of network and using the, the [00:07:00] affiliated industry, uh, professionals, you know, the architects and the designers who are now doing cross, you know, branding with multi-family and hotel living, um, was able to give them opportunities and vendors that had never worked.
Space bringing them on and really teaching, um, you know, the real estate industry that you do want to rely on good product and good materials. You don't want to just be swapping furniture out yearly that you bought, you know, at a retail place, because it's not a long-term investment in. R, and that's how you make your money.
So you don't want to be, you know, spending CapEx on things you don't really need to spend if it's just a one-year life cycle. Um, so you know, the opportunity again, arose when I, when I saw that, you know, Hilton was spinning into a real estate company, I had background at this point, um, about six years in it.
And I said, you know what? I've already. Then intrigued by the Holton process and how different they were [00:08:00] and good ways. And, um, you know, just being their own kind of entity in this space. And so, luckily, luckily I was, I was picked up by park and the rest is history.
Dan Ryan: And that's a great journey and I love in that journey.
It was, I love how you said you actually never really left. It was almost as if you brought everything you learned over into multifamily and then just kept evolving. So
Christina Flannery: keeping a finger on that pulse as well, because there's so much cool design. To go into, um, multi-family that, you know, a lot of times you don't really get to do in hotels based on budgets or timing, or, uh, you know, how the spaces are utilized.
I think there's a lot more, a level of engagement that happens in, in multi-family rec space and amenities space. Um, but you know, I think there's always that correlation between the two we're learning and bringing examples into, you know, Industry, um, and really keeping it at a, at a good [00:09:00] inspirational playing field.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And as you just said on the rec and amenities space, and multi-family one of the things that I've seen is many of the bigger multi-families and the most successful multifamily groups, they invest so heavily on the rec. The rec space, the amenities space, because as you know, in hotels, you're changing in effect, you're changing a lease every night, right?
Whereas when someone comes to a multi-family, you know, they're doing a 9, 12, 16, 18, 24 month lease, so it's much longer. And I think as they walk through and they're making their decision between all the different places that they're going. I think there's a lot of visualization that happens with that prospective tenant to say, oh, I can see my friends coming over here and having a barbecue and lounging by the pool or playing shuffle Packers or foosball or pool, or whatever's in that, in that rec space.
And I, and I think. That's a really interesting crossover point that where I've seen hospitality influence that [00:10:00] tremendously. And it's turned into something even more because I've, I've read studies where those rec spaces and amenities spaces can really have a tremendous ROI because it can help them increase the rent, et cetera, et cetera.
And I've seen that almost like as an incubator and now it's coming back even stronger onto the hospitality side, especially. In the, uh, select and focus service, um, properties. Like I know like what a loft has done at Marriott and, you know, just really activated. All of that amazing space, like, and making it a super cool gathering space for everyone,
Christina Flannery: right?
It's you want to go and see and be seen and sit in the lobby when you're on the road, you know, maybe have a bite to eat, maybe meet someone in the lobby, you know, do your interviewing there, you know, that becomes your extended space outside of your room to really. Oh, and as your own and, and use it as your own and you know, it can be play, it can be work, it can be a family.
[00:11:00] And, and that's the cool part about these hotel lobbies, especially the interactive meeting spaces that are starting to come on board. Um, Being remote for two years, we've all learned what works and what doesn't work about meetings. Right. Do we need to be meeting informal, you know, office spaces or can we meet at the local hotel lobby and, you know, grab a drink afterwards?
You know, how does, how do we engage in this world now that we've seen technology really stepping up and being a great platform to support us, um, and just, you know, The vibe of, of refresh and get out. And it's like, springtime is around the corner and it's always a nice rebirth, you're kind of shedding that cold winter and into something new and fresh.
And I feel the light at the end of the tunnel here with where we're headed, is exciting for hospitality because they think everybody's going to want to be traveling [00:12:00] and they're going to want to see what's out there and plan their next vacation or their next business trip. it's gonna, really focus around the amenities and what the property has to offer.
Dan Ryan: So, and I love that rollercoaster that you're, you've painted a picture of from winter to spring. Okay. So let's. From you joined park hotels at a super exciting time, right? It had spun out you're on this huge growth plan. You're executing, you're doing all this stuff. And then we get hit with COVID. Right.
So all of the best laid plans, like obviously everyone went to shifted to survival mode and I'm not saying at park, but like across all hotels, um, they're just getting beat up. It's it's like, um, housekeeping service is really diminished. Um, People are staying longer. Um, there's just, the things are looking tired and people are not reinvesting typically in on the capital expenditure side that they did [00:13:00] and in one of our conversations earlier.
Um, and I don't want to like fill in the blanks for how you respond, but it was, um, it's kind of, we're at an, at this interesting place where, okay, so you might not be in the nicest place across all the. Spectrum of all hotels, because things are beat up and people were in survival mode. But how have you seen, especially at your properties where, okay, you're just managing you're, you're kind of doing the best that you can, as the world comes back.
And we go into that spring. How have you seen your teams compensate for that onsite as far as like, how are they. Making others feel like how, how do, how have you seen hospitality shine through all of this from, from your
Christina Flannery: assets? Absolutely. It's the teams, it's the onsite teams and their dedication to hospitality and making the experience the most incredible experience for that individual, regardless of what the condition of the hotel is.
If you've got a. Front [00:14:00] staff. And you've got a great housekeeping staff, the guests understand, they understand that everyone is kind of going through this transition. Um, they're not expecting all these hotels to be completely renovated. They're expecting that when they walk through the door, that they're welcomed, that they're greeted, that they feel a place in the hotel that they can say, wow, I'm home for the next couple of days.
And I know I'm with the great team and I know they're going to take care of me and, you know, it looks clean. I don't care that it's, you know, not the latest and greatest design, but as long as that team is smiling and keeping positive and keeping me positive, then you know, I'm going to have a great time here.
And I think that. The nice thing. And the silver lining of this pandemic has been the humility that's come out of it, and everyone has been in this together. And so there is a little bit more of a gracious response. If you know [00:15:00] the hotel hasn't been completely renovated or, you know, they, they messed up your order at the FNB spot or, you know, we're all.
Realizing that we're coming back at different pieces out of this. And I think the most important thing is just keeping the smile and the energy and the social that comes with being hosp hospitality base and allowing that to kind of shine through. And I think our onsite teams have done that. They've really welcomed the guests back, uh, from the very beginning and, and, you know, through this pandemic I've, I've traveled and I've seen it.
Those employees that go above and beyond, um, with extra water or extra towels or, you know, helping to grab a bag, you know, if you're comfortable or providing, you know, hand sanitizer, extra mass, if somebody is asking, I mean, they're there to really support and, and turn this around and I'm seeing it. And, and it's, it's so positive and just energizing.
Dan Ryan: It was amazing [00:16:00] because a few moments ago you were. These tech platforms and how all of this is happening in all the experimentation that we're all seeing there to kind of improve and enhance guest experience, but also improve the operations of a hotel. And then on the other side, it's just those simple.
Little engagements or, or, um, collisions get collisions a strong, well, no, it's a collision between, um, the team member who's working there and really making someone feel comfortable. There's very few interactions. It's all, you're interacting all the time, but to make those more meaningful, um, it, it can more than compensate for whatever else is going around.
And I, and I love how you said it's, um, it's really their home for the next night or two. Right. And I think oftentimes we lose sight.
Christina Flannery: Well, exactly. And I think, you know, digital key has as a great place and a great time, you know, if I'm getting in late somewhere and I don't really need to check in at the front desk and I've got digital key, I can go straight to my room.
But I will say [00:17:00] there have been times where I kind of missed that greeting, or I missed that cookie, or I missed that, you know, would you like an extra bottle of water for your, for your stay or your room? Um, or if you're hungry you've, you've got the market right here, you know, that engaged. Uh, you know, even if it's just a few sentences or a few words that really kind of makes your day, right.
And, or, you know, have a great day or, you know, welcome to our property. It's those little gestures of humanity that I think now we're starting to really appreciate. And, um, The hospitality industry has just been stellar and keeping that, that comradery and, and kind of being the whole, the, the glue that's held everybody together.
You know, the open hotels, they were servicing many more guests, you know, if there were others that were closed down, they were dealing with, you know, different levels of occupancy. And, and how do you deal with that with maybe shorten staff? Um, there's been a lot of logistics around it that they've just done.
Incredible work. So it's just been [00:18:00] a very, a very proud moment to be a part of a team like that.
Dan Ryan: Um, I, the digital key thing recently has been super cool for me. I always found it frustrating. In the past. Cause it was like, oh, it just didn't work or whatever. But I feel like at all, the different brands I've stayed at, it's finally working
Christina Flannery: has come together.
Dan Ryan: But I also, I'm also seeing, um, and I'm glad you brought that up because I'm also seeing so much experimentation with technology. Works some doesn't, but like, aside from digital keyboard or some other really exciting things you're seeing out there on the tech side of things. Yeah,
Christina Flannery: absolutely. I think pre pandemic, um, one of the big selling points in, in kind of the tech world, um, was, you know, unifying.
You using that, like the comforts of home where you can unlock your room, you can set your temperature, you can, um, you know, turn your lights on and off, you know, that kind of level of technology [00:19:00] where it's, you know, you know, one touch here, one touch there. I think that was something that was really starting to take some legs, um, pre pandemic, and I'm hopeful that, you know, technology and, and some of the studies that have been done, you know, in the downtime will help to elevate that.
Um, you know, we also were touring some properties where in the bathroom, there was TV coming through the lip mirrors, which is kinda any, you know, in the mornings when you're trying to figure out you're in a new city and you don't know what the weather is going to be for the day, it might be cool in the morning and, you know, sweltering in the afternoon.
And do I carry a sweater? Do I not? Um, you know, those little things or maybe I just want to listen to music while I'm in the shower. Um, so making sure that. Those manufacturers have had time to vet that product and see, you know, what has been the plus and the minus, and also from an ownership side, how much is that going to cost us to rewire?
Um, you know, it's definitely something that we're working with the brands on to understand costs, um, as we're all [00:20:00] sensitive to it right now. Um, we want to make sure we're. Getting the best bang for our buck. And we want to put forward, you know, the best product, but we want to be sensitive to how much that's all going to cost because the whole industry is, it has risen right.
In terms of cost. And, um, so we need to be sensitive to that when we're planning.
Dan Ryan: Important also to understand, because you know, when you're talking multi-family versus hospitality and especially on all the FFNE, that's the stuff that, the fit of furnitures, fixtures and equipment for those who don't know, or it's the stuff that the guests are touching and feeling at on the multi-family side, most people like all the finishes are there.
Right. But then they bring in their own stuff. In the hotel side, you're spending so much more because you're making that there and you're kind of encapsulating this experience for them. But it's such a bigger dollar about a dollar amount. Yeah. You're spending on the hospitality side rather than the multi multi-family side.
And it's, it's all about, you know, as, from an ownership perspective, finding that balance of [00:21:00] like, okay, how do we not overspend? How do we get there? And how do we do that? So like, what are your kind of like key measurements to make sure that you're in alignment for what you're doing so that. Successful on the balance sheet and the P and L but also delivering.
Christina Flannery: Absolutely. And that's where, you know, property walks. Um, especially if you can get a brand person on site with you when you're walking. Um, I think bathrooms are huge, uh, you know, wildcard, right? Depending on the city, if you've bet union labor, or if you've got, you know, standard construction, um, it seems like that world right now is, is super busy and just, um, you know, getting equipment in and.
Tile and, um, construction materials. Um, Construction has always kind of been a driver, um, depending on your, your region in your location. Um, but also bathroom is a huge touch point for people. You know, people don't want to be in a really old, uh, unrenovated, you know, kind of [00:22:00] gross bathroom when that's where they're starting their day, they're freshening up, they're going out into the world and they want to feel like.
Space. That's going to give them everything that, you know, build them up in the morning and make them feel good. Um, so I think bathrooms are a huge thing, right? Um, if you've got tile that is timeless and in great shape, it may just be a cleanup. Um, you might be able to work with the existing tile through creative, you know, wall coverings or lit mirrors, um, or lighting.
Um, I think those are areas. Bathrooms or are challenged because, you know, shower surrounds or Chubb, tub conversions to showers, those are expensive. And they're in the, are a big driver. Um,
Dan Ryan: there it's
Christina Flannery: exactly when you start to kind of take stuff out and you realize, Hey, you know, we can't relocate the toilet or we have to kind of keep it in the footprint.
I stacked. Yeah. It's an absolute experiment to kind of get in there [00:23:00] and see what you have. Maybe, hopefully you don't have any kind of mold or any abatement that needs to happen. Um, but it, but it is a, it's a large cost. Um, and that's, uh, a good piece of the room, but then, you know, you have your, your main space, your living space and how you function.
Right. So, Touch there's touch materials, there's hard materials. Um, and how those all come together. That's another, you know, big touch point for people. And how are people traveling? Do people unpack their luggage in drawers, or can we maybe eliminate drawers and do more of an open closet? Um, I think the brands have been really great about brainstorming on that end as well, to help, um, make sure we're neutralizing costs or even saving in some way to get priority.
Um, in other areas like technology or outlets, you know, how many times have you gone into a room and not had a place to plug in your phone and you're going to hide in the bed. Right.
Dan Ryan: So, you know, thinking about every, every [00:24:00] project that comes over your transom that you're working on, you know, it's really, each project is like, is an experiment.
Right. Okay. We're kind of doing a similar thing, but each one has its own unique set of constraints, challenges. Um, Curious. And I think like, as far as like everyone learning and shortening people's journeys, which I love from this, I find that oftentimes we learn the most from the projects that don't go the best.
Right. It's like, it's almost like graduate school and we've all had them, um, share, like share some of your best learning experiences from projects gone. Wild.
Christina Flannery: You know, I think, um, one of the. Um, lessons learned, I think would be a good way to put it, um, about capital spend versus actually thinking about properties holistically.
Right. So I know, especially coming out of this pandemic, this might not be, um, right off the bat [00:25:00] the best way, or, or even, you know, funds may only allow for a certain amount of, of renovation work to happen. Right. So is it better to. You know, renovate only partially and get more renovation done or is it better to actually take the time and, and do it thoughtfully and incorporate everything into a room and maybe only have four projects instead of 30 projects, but those 30 only had half of the room renovated.
And so, you know, what I've seen in the past was, um, as ownership group, Not just parked, but I think everywhere you get your capital and it's kind of divvied up and, uh, and you go in and you touch the, the worst things about the room, right? And, um, so when dollars are tight, you know, you might be able to get carpet and you might be able to.
A chair in the room, uh, maybe a headboard, but the rest of the case bed stay and maybe the lighting stays and, you know, for some of the, the D-list [00:26:00] properties or the properties that, um, you know, may not mind a soft refresh like that, that might be fine. Um, but for some of the more, um, Iconic or, or real drivers of a portfolio.
We want to really take a hard dive about what's going to be the best investment as the owner, and really study it holistically. Um, making sure that we're not cutting corners to have to go back and do it again in two or three years. And I think that's been one of the biggest lessons learned. If you do it right the first time, you won't have to keep going back and replacing it.
It's kind of like how I mentioned on the multifamily side. You know, you can buy retail furniture for your amenity spaces, but you're going to be replacing it a lot faster than if you were to actually go through a manufacturer that has quality commercial grade fabric. It's going to give you a lot longer lifespan on that furniture.
Um, and that's the same thought process as renovation. You know, we want to go into these rooms once and we don't want to have to go back in for another 18. [00:27:00] Um, and you know, I think in the past, the kind of piecemeal renovation works. I think there always be a place for it. Um, but I think, you know, if, if you have the resources and the funding, it's always better to kind of do it holistically.
Dan Ryan: And I think it's also like, what's your intention as the owner, is it to have these. Great performing assets and a longterm hold in a portfolio, or are you looking to really reposition and shift out and make money off the appreciation of the real estate transaction? Um, how many properties are currently in parts portfolio?
Right.
Christina Flannery: Ooh, that is a good question. We've had a lot of, uh, sales going on recently. Um, we're a little over 55, I believe I think as, as everyone is kind of coming back to business, You know, we're, we're always kind of looking at our portfolio.
And, um, like I said, there's been a lot of sales recently, which has been great for us.
Dan Ryan: That's what's crazy. Okay. So when I hear I don't, [00:28:00] whatever the number is 55 or whatever, let's just whatever the number is. Okay. So I can get my head around 55. Different hotels. Right. But what's so crazy as I've learned more, I've been living in this world and also just learning about hotels in a different way.
Since doing this, uh, podcast, I'm having all these conversations. It's not just 55 hotels. It's 55 different businesses. And within each of one of those businesses, There's, I don't even know how many sub businesses from an FMB perspective to an events perspective, to just an HR perspective too, but there's so many different channels of, of revenue that are coming in and then to just make it all, kind of come together and roll up into your overall portfolio.
It's just, it's just mind blowing and amazing and kind of humbling to see how many great people are needed to keep everything on track performing the right.
Christina Flannery: Absolutely. It takes a village. It's a, it's a true team effort. And, um, you know, [00:29:00] our, my calls during the week, you know, now I'm. Inundated with calls in a good way, because we're getting all the right people on the calendar, having those conversations, you know, and B level operations people all the way up through, you know, senior vice presidents talking about what is going to be best for the properties.
And that's really, when you know, you, you, your projects are coming together, um, in a great, in a great way is when you have that collaboration
Dan Ryan: and then there's this. So going on that. Yeah, of, of the, of the properties that you have. Like, if you could say, you know, which one would be like, which one or couple would be the most complicated from just all that different programming that going.
Cause you'll have some pretty amazing assets.
Christina Flannery: Like, well, our current two, uh, that are in the limelight are the Signia by Hilton in phonic Creek and Waldorf Astoria, bonnet Creek, which are both. You know, in the process of the expansion, [00:30:00] uh, meeting space, as well as, uh, refreshing the interiors there. So as you mentioned, you know, I've called as specific calls about different areas of the hotel all week long, whether it's expansion, whether it's FNB, whether it's, um, you know, Uh, one, one property or the other they're kind of run as a, as a unique, uh, complex.
And so there is a lot that goes into, um, the collaboration there, um, onsite our, our third-party vendors are. Project teams, construction, um, designers, vendors, even, you know, coming in and helping us select the best banquet chair for them. You know, we, we went through probably five different, uh, sample chairs and make made sure that the onsite team who knows their customer knows what they're looking for is happy because they're ultimately our customer in a way to, you know, our on site team, they know their business.
That they know their business. [00:31:00] And so we want to give them the best equipment that they can do their business.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I think, uh, and then especially, you know, you think about from Hilton's perspective with Sydney and Waldorf being like these super important brands for the growth of Hilton as well and their product offering, um, it's, uh, it must be an incredible collaboration, you know, on the other side, like on the other side of the world, pretty much.
The other one I think of is. The Hilton Hawaiian village, right. That thing is like a city. And I don't even know how many buildings and properties are there in pools and F and B outlets, but it's just amazing how that whole.
Christina Flannery: Absolutely. Yeah, it's really exciting. And, um, the Hilton Hawaiian village is, is definitely, uh, one of our most iconic, um, properties actually.
I've only been there once and the one time I was there, I actually saw the film crew for Hawaii Five-O so you always see the iconic rainbow tower, uh, when you watch the show, but, [00:32:00] uh, it's, it's been amazing and we've better really awesome project director that oversees. That, uh, that portfolio complex. Um, and, and so we're, we're hoping to be able to do some work there, here in the near future.
Dan Ryan: Cool. Yeah, it's funny. Um, I growing up on the east coast, like, we just didn't go to Hawaii, but then when I went to college in, in California, so many of the people from the west coast, that's where they would go vacation in Hawaii. And then I think about like how. How many memories? So many of my friends from California from college were just imprinted in that Hilton Hawaiian village compound.
We're like their families would go, they would basically go for eight or 10 days and just not leave the site and just have. So many different varied and powerful memories.
Christina Flannery: Yeah. It's incredible. It really is. And you can't really, unless you've ever been to buy you can't really describe it either. You know, you have, when my first time, you know, I had a [00:33:00] vision of what I thought it was going to be, and I got there and I'm like, oh my gosh, you're right.
It is a true village. Um, beach, but you also have a city vibe, but you also have the cultural aspect. It's incredible. And it's, it's really worth checking out if you, if you have the ability to yeah.
Dan Ryan: It's, it's, it's just, it's just mind blowing how it all works together in like a perfect symphony symphony.
And I, I mean, how many people were.
Christina Flannery: Oh, gosh, I don't get, I don't get into the injuries inside of things. I'm, I'm only on the design. So it's literally a village of staff as well. I mean, there's, um, you know, so many interactions that happen. Um, and so it's, it really is a community.
Dan Ryan: Awesome. Um, so I know that we, uh, earlier you were speaking about.
Kind of this winter to spring, um, [00:34:00] kind of painting this rollercoaster of kind of where we are, um, as we. Uh, on the coming out of winter part and I ask you an and from the properties and all the calls that are increasing and now, like what's keeping you up at night right now.
Christina Flannery: Uh, my 18 month old
tooth coming in there. Um, but no, seriously, I think, honestly, it's just about making sure that we have dotted all of our I's and crossed our T's and we are bringing in. The best foot forward for park. Um, that's, that's going to show us the return, uh, and, but not only that, but give people the experience and the wow factor that you know, renovation does.
And, and the cool thing about renovation, you know, new construction, you can design, you know, anything you want, but when you're in renovation, you're working with [00:35:00] spaces and constraints that. You have to work with, and, and if you, uh, run into roadblocks, you have to problem solve and you have to be able to, you know, transition quickly.
If something doesn't work the way that you know, you've planned it. And I think that one of the most fulfilling things about renovation is really. You can't, you can only visualize it so much. Right? We've got wonderful renders that will put a great rendering together. But until you are in that space and you feel the energy of the new versus where the old was, uh, it's really impactful.
And it, and it's a, it's a feeling that. It's hard to describe because it's, it's just, it just overcomes you, um, in a good, in a good way that your job has been done and you're here to serve others and make sure that they're having a great time on their vacation or their travels or their, uh, you know, work engagements.
And it's just really fulfilling. So [00:36:00] nothing at the moment is really keeping me up. I mean, we all are in this, this, uh, Logistics world right now together. I think, um, you know, lead times, whenever anybody tells you that it's, you know, six to eight weeks, I would add a couple of weeks to that. And I think we're we're industry professionals.
And I think we've added some of that buffer zone in there. So there's there isn't that expectation. You know, everybody has to be, uh, you know, six weeks on a product because we all know what we're going through. So I think so it's
Dan Ryan: so funny you bring up the logistics stuff because I, you know, I was just at this conference and you know, you go to these round tables and everyone asks you all these questions.
So like, you know, doing furniture with Berman, Falk, they're saying, are you guys, um, so like what's the, is shipping and receiving really an issue. And I was like, no, absolutely not. We're um, we're actually delivering everything. Um, and w I I'm reading about all this in the newspaper. I don't know what you're talking about.
They're like what? [00:37:00] And they get down on their paper, they start writing. They were like, uh, wait, how do you, how are you doing that? I was like, well, actually, We own our own port and a whole fleet of ships. And they're like, why where's your port? I said, it's in Santa Monica, California. And they're like, why? I didn't even, how do we not know about this?
I said, I'm totally kidding. It's a complete shit show. And we'll all work. All we're doing right now is just trying to do our best to be transparent and clear communicators in real time about what's going on. Um, but again, it's a constraint and we're all feeling it, but I. Just go. That was just my little funny aside, but going back where you said, um, the constraint side.
Okay. I think that one of the most powerful things about design design is really about solving problems, right? And then if you think about, I think that the best, the most innovation for anything in life in projects, whatever comes from when you're put in a constraint. Right. And I love how you said. When you [00:38:00] are presented with these constraints and then you solve the problem you feel fulfilled, right?
So can you give us an example of, uh, of one of the most extreme constraints you've been presented with, but that resulted in the most performance, most fulfillment, like kind of walk us through. What's that process was like,
Christina Flannery: yeah. I mean, even just getting on the granular level when you're, when you have different customers and clients.
Your organization or your onsite team, or, you know, whoever your kind of end user is at the end of the day, the property teams can be at their best when they feel like they've made a contribution to the design in some way, shape or form. Right. They want to own it. Okay. Sell it, they want to be proud when people walk in and see the new renovation.
Um, and it's really that impact. Right. And so I think about two things when you ask that question, the first is, is [00:39:00] more of what I was kind of touching on before, which is unfortunately, that kind of piecemeal renovates, and right. You never really get that impact of wow. You've renovated. Okay. Phenomenal, because if you only replaced the carpet or you only replace a couple of chairs in a vast lobby where there are other.
Pieces that are coordinating with that. You're never really going to get that full impact of design because you've only really touched a small space in that larger kind of grand lobby. Um, and so, you know, some of the more recent renovations that we've done, where we've actually done the entire lobby and we planned accordingly.
Um, with our financials and created a plan for that, it's been so much more successful because the impact is really truly when you walk in this space and your eye goes left and you see a marketplace, but that's been renovated and you see forward [00:40:00] and you have a grand lobby with furniture and new carpet and new tile and light fixtures that are new.
You recognize it. And then you look over to the front desk and that's new. You start to pick up on all those moments and it feels right. Um, and so, you know, I think some of those challenges have been where we've only, you know, had enough capital to do one, one, uh, piece of the puzzle. Right. And so I think we all agreed in our lesson learned in the first couple of years apart was we're not getting the bang for our buck.
Right. You're spending this money and it's, and it's not really. Uh, improving the dynamic of the guest or they're not recognizing it fulfilling, fulfilling that, that wow factor. So I think we've all learned that it's better to eat. You know, it, it, it's painful to say, oh, we have to wait one more year for the slobby.
But if in the end it's going to make it so that the entire [00:41:00] space gets renovated, it's worth it. Um, and so I think one of those challenges is just giving, giving a patients kind of talk because right, our asset teams and our ops teams, we need to get this renovated. You know, we're losing business. Our, our biggest piece of business is walking away because our lobby isn't renovated.
But then you think about it and. Well, you may have lost one small piece of business and maybe it was big too at the time. But think about all the business you're going to get when you're a newly renovated, complete lobby with rooms upstairs that have been renovated. So I think it's that balance of conversation.
And to your point, the honesty, you know, you gotta be honest with everyone, what is going to be the best for best, you know, wow factor and the best thing for our money in the long run, not just kind of the short term to keep maybe one or two pieces of. And it
Dan Ryan: also goes back. Okay. So once, so it's like a lesson learned continual learning, right.
And then to take that patient view because okay. If we, if we're just patient the outcome, if we, instead of piecemealing, it's [00:42:00] going to be so much better, but if you're all aware of. Right. And then you can have these conversations, then you can create alignment between ops, asset management, design, and construction, and then be honest.
Right? So the ops team, which is how it all started when we, when we first started talking, it's the team on the ground and having that ability to. Make others feel welcome and just say, Hey, I know that this might be this or this, but just know that we got you and we're taking care of you. And, and by having that kind of coordinated
Christina Flannery: look at things,
Dan Ryan: it's that transparency and, and, and, um, it's a transparent, clear communication that, you know, if you're doing it well, You can overcompensate for things because it's like, Hey, we're not hiding behind this where, and we're doing, we're all doing the best that we can.
Right?
Christina Flannery: Absolutely. Absolutely. I've also seen the flip side where, you know, A small [00:43:00] renovation was everything. And, you know, we had, we have a little space down in our customer United key west property. And, uh, our hotel manager came to me and said, Hey, I really want to infuse some, some color and some texture into the space.
I know we don't have a lot of money to do it, but I really feel like we're going to have some live music coming in and we're going to offer some craft cocktails. And I think if we could just get some furniture that would be a little bit more inviting in there. Pre-renovation um, that would really bring customers, you know, from, from all angles into the space.
And she was absolutely right. You know, we have a live music in there now, and, and the other day she said, Hey, I need a couple of replacement tables for in there until, you know, we're, we're ready to, uh, fully renovate that hotel, that it was a wonderful opportunity for an ROI return on your investment.
Automatically fight, just spending a little bit of capital to get that furniture in there for her. So that was a rock star moment on the op side there. And then
Dan Ryan: from, [00:44:00] so from the ROI perspective, by taking that more surgical approach, right? So of that's a huge property, right? So you're like, Hey, let's, let's do this.
How did it, how did that change that you guys did surgically affect the performance of that particular pace? Uh,
Christina Flannery: no, absolutely. She's busy every evening with the, with the introduction of the craft cocktail, um, and you know, live music. It's a, it's a small little lounge space and now they're generating great revenue off of it.
Um, You know, and we were able to get some quick furniture right before the pandemic hit. Thank goodness, um, to, to transform that space. And, and if you go in there today, it's as if it has, it has always been that way. You can't even remember the big wooden furniture that was in there. That was, you know, basically after 5:00 PM, nobody went into this space.
So it's those little opportunities as well. And you say surgically, the ROI world for us is, is hugely important. You know, that's really where we can [00:45:00] study, um, Littles strategic moments, um, in certain hotels to be able to, to generate that, that return. So that's, that's going to be a big push for this year as well for us.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. It's in that kind of goes back to the overall complexity of each hotel everywhere, but even within your property, it's like, how do you find those places where you can really turn off the dial? And so oftentimes I hear. On the FMB side of things
you hear about this, the project you did at Casa marina and it, it turned up the volume of performed really well, revenues increased. And you also hear about like those new hotels or other, usually it's on the newer side when they open. And they are actually surprised by the FMB. It's not like a plan thing.
And it's like, holy crap, holy crap. This bar is outperforming our rooms revenue or, or on a, from a profitability standpoint. And oftentimes they're surprised by that. So it's kind of cool [00:46:00] to hear success stories of where you're actually planning it and then you, and then you see it
Christina Flannery: as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's, it's all, you know, relative and, and at the end of the day, as long as the customer is happy and you're utilizing. Um, in a, in a positive way, it's a win for everybody.
Dan Ryan: Cool. And then, so I guess on this, um, surgical search for ROI, um, what's exciting, like, as you're doing that and kind of looking at all the programming of each of your assets, like what's exciting you most about the future.
Christina Flannery: You know, engaging spaces, right? So are there outdoor opportunities to enhance? Are there, you know, FMB spaces that, you know, maybe aren't working out as a coffee shop, but maybe they would be a better, you know, evening cocktail space or, um, you know, maybe we're only doing. Uh, breakfast out of a space and not using that space for the rest of the day.
Can we turn that into a meeting [00:47:00] space that can be rentable? You know, there's, there's all kinds of, um, interesting little spaces that you kind of come to find. I mean, a lot of, uh, the DoubleTree portfolio, um, I think a lot of those were red lions at one time and some of them had nightclubs and, uh, interesting, you know, party, space room.
That a lot of times just becomes storage. So, you know, how can we repurpose that space? Is it something that becomes a better fitness opportunity, your, um, you know, uh, coworking or, or a meeting space, um, meet, you know, innovation centers, you know, it's, there's a lot of. Uh, opportunity to unlock with those spaces that may just be storage right now.
So just really fine tuning and getting in and understanding what we have and then, um, doing the brainstorming.
Dan Ryan: That's kind of cool. You know, I've heard you say craft cocktails. A couple of times, I recently had a conversation on this defining hospitality with Dave Kaplan [00:48:00] who started death in company. And he's now starting a hotel management company that goes to other property that goes to properties and says, Hey, lead with FNB or lead with the.
Of the FMB and see how you can really reinvent reinvigorate that. And then you also said looking at old nightclubs and turning them into fitness spaces, there's also been this really interesting theme that I want to dig deeper in through this podcast of wellness and the, how, how all of these hotels are incorporating wellness from, you know, Equinox is doing it really well to mirror.
Um, to pretty much everyone. And I think that idea of wellness and intention it's, it's changing the way hotels are operating as well.
Christina Flannery: I think so. I believe that, uh, some again, another silver lining of the pandemic was just slowing down a little bit and actually taking care of yourself and your mental health and your physical health and your eating habits and wellbeing.
I think everyone at some point, [00:49:00] uh, realized, Hey, for two years, we can just sit around and watch tiger king and eat pizza. You know, I think, I think that. You know, it's a new way of life, right? It's a new, more holistic. We talk about when we renovate, we think about all the different spaces that come into play when you're engaging in a, in a renovation.
And it's kind of, you know, starts in your own mind, body and soul. Right. You've got a. You've got to kind of take time for yourself. And I think we were, we were all probably running so fast paced, pre pandemic, and then to have the time to actually maybe get a run in, in the morning before you sit down for, you know, calls or, you know, being able to make a fresh salad right out of your kitchen at lunchtime, you know, it's, it's been really nice and I think that's going to carry through, um, and help everybody.
The vitamin C and, and, and ramping up our vitamins to keep our immune systems healthy as well. You know, it all comes to play and hopefully this will be something that's, that's the [00:50:00] lasting, uh, kind of way of life, rather than just a trend.
Dan Ryan: Well, I'm very eager to see. Your growth and Park's growth as we go into spring and summer physically this year, but also just for our industry.
I think we're really about to enter a really special time where of travel and impact and, um, I don't know, just inspiration. Yeah. Um, I'm so happy and glad that you, um, and grateful that you shared your time with us here.
Christina Flannery: Thanks so much, Dan. It's been a pleasure and I've had a great time this morning and, uh, look forward to connecting with you again soon.
Awesome.
Dan Ryan: And then, so for people out there as well, like how can people find you? Where can they find you? And then we can also put it all in, in the, in the we'll
Christina Flannery: just wait I'm on LinkedIn. So come find me, Christina Flannery, um, and. Give me a thumbs up or give me a message and I'll return your, your message.
Dan Ryan: Awesome. Um, [00:51:00] so again, I just want to say thank you again for your time, Christina. This has been really incredible and thank you. Um, and also I want to thank our listeners because without them, this thing doesn't happen. And I really think that thinking about. Hospitality from, um, the built environment and thinking about ROI, but not just purely from the sense of ROI, but also how can you leave the most impact?
How can you create the best memory possible for those guests that are there and how the team supports all of that, I think is incredible. So, if this has changed your perspective on how any of that happens, please share the podcast with a friend, um, we're growing, and it's just really exciting to tell all of these stories about how we can help be more hospitable to everyone.
So thank you everyone.
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