Defining Hospitality

[00:00:00]
Dan Ryan: Today's guest truly understands and appreciates the culinary world. She has over 25 years experience in the industry. She's the host of the wildly successful all in the industry podcast. She's the founder and president at bay public relations, ladies and gentlemen, Sherry Bayer. Welcome Sherry.
Shari Bayer: Thank you for having me.
What an intro. I, yeah, well,
Dan Ryan: it is an intro, but it that's all you and there was so much more to choose from that. It was, you know, we had to cut it down so that we, I'm not spending the whole time introducing all of your [00:01:00] accolades.
Shari Bayer: Yeah. I know it could have just gone on for like a couple hours there, but yeah, but thank you.
And thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here and to chat with you.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I'm so excited. Like I love these opportunities where I get to interview the interviewer.
Shari Bayer: Yes. And I'm hoping we can, uh, turn the tables in the future too, so I can interview you.
Dan Ryan: Oh, I would welcome that very much. I'm always nervous about that.
It's uh, it's unusual. Um, but I, I think I should just enter that fear and, uh, put myself out there. I,
Shari Bayer: yeah, well, I, I would, I'm more to being the interviewer, so, um, but I'm gonna let you lead the show.
Dan Ryan: Wonderful. Um, so I think what's really interesting about your career over the past 25 years and mostly from the restaurant space, correct?[00:02:00]
Shari Bayer: Yes. And it's even, I mean, we could it's plus plus the 25, cuz I got my first job, um, In a restaurant as soon as I could drive at the age of 16. So, but yes, we can go with 25. wonderful.
Dan Ryan: So, well the plus plus, so the journey is amazing. And then, so while this podcast, the audience has started mostly as, as, um, hotel people, it's really grown to other entrepreneurs and then into restaurant F and B and everything.
And it's like, it's interesting to see how the audience grows and what people what's resonating with listeners, um, to then basically kind of get out of that initial focus and kind of just see, cuz I, I think all things, all industries, all jobs, all people touch upon hospitality in some way or the other.
It's the most transferable of all of the kind of soft skills that we can that we can all have. Wouldn't you agree? I
Shari Bayer: would 100% [00:03:00] agree because I was, I mean, I was thinking about it where, you know, with this question of what is hospitality and it's, I mean, for me, most my experience and reference points and where hospitality is in restaurants.
And then I would say, you know, bars and hotels, but hospital it's everywhere. It's when you walk into a store, it's when you get on an airplane, it's like, you know, , it's not, it's not, um, it's, it's certainly hospitality is all in all industries.
Dan Ryan: It, it absolutely is. And I think one of the, um, order often bay, and when I think about hospitality to me, I also had a friend of mine on who, um, she has this really successful cookie company. Cause I love the smell of cookies and baking and I think. What draws me to that is this idea of, um, this warmth and hearth.
And I think of your really extensive [00:04:00] and super impressive client list of all the people that you've worked with. I was super drawn to Sullivan street bakery.
Shari Bayer: Oh, wow. And thank you for saying that. That's
Dan Ryan: well, and I'll tell you why I'm, I'm not, I wouldn't a bread connoisseur. Um, although my pandemic pants might say that I am because everything's getting a little bit tighter.
Um, but it's amazing. There's something about that Sullivan street bakery that when I'm at any restaurant, I know exactly that it's from those ovens and from those hands, and it's just so soothing. I've never been there as it's baking, but, um, I was wondering if you could just walk us through like your experience with Sullivan street bakery and, um, And just the feeling of that bread and why it's so recognizable, because to me, it makes me super comfortable and I just it's immediately recognizable.
Shari Bayer: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's Jim Lehe. Uh, it's his company or James Lehe, but he [00:05:00] normally goes by Jim and I met him through the industry at, at some point and, um, was lucky to be brought on board to work with him primarily on the reopening of his now flagship location in hell's kitchen, where he does make the bread.
Um, and he was, he, he redid the cafe and so it was a, like a relaunch. Um, and he did some work in the back of the bakery too. Um, And a lot of times I work with, with restaurants when they're opening or reopening or, you know, the new buzz. So I was fortunate to, to be brought on board and, and, and we did an opening party and, you know, got a lot of great press on it.
I mean, Jim's one of these guys almost it's as a PR person at this point, you're more man. It like he's, he people know him and he's known for the no need bread, which is, um, [00:06:00] It got his big break, I guess you'd say when mark Bitman wrote about it in the New York times and it became, um, discovered. So, um, I mean his bread is unique and yeah, it is distinct.
Um, he has a lot of different, it's not just one bread. You there's just so many different, um, styles, but, um, it it's recognizable. And I think working with him as someone who really is so passionate about what they do for me as a, as a PR person, it's easy to spread that passion and get people excited about it.
And of course, Eat his bread. And, um, but I think a lot of it also has to do that. It's so hand he's, so hands on and where he's making the bread is literally where you're getting it. Um, totally. So
Dan Ryan: I love how you said that it makes your job easier because he's so passionate about [00:07:00] what he's doing and I'm sure you have a lot of other clients like that as well.
But I think, um, I feel like oftentimes it's so hard. Like we're all passionate about so many things, but to really live in that passion and to be able to tell that story and really get into the why we do what we do is often very hard. And oftentimes I find with friends, clients, um, other entrepreneurs, they know that they're passionate about something, but they have a really hard time describing their why.
It's almost like, and I've said this before. It's like, we, we all live in these jars, right? And we can't necessarily see the label on them. Right. So we we're living in it. We're passionate. We have all those feelings, but sometimes we, we can't like look in the mirror and see exactly what's there. So with you as, uh, doing PR for all these, uh, this amazing list of clients, like how do you help your clients who maybe have a hard time reading their own label and really getting out and telling their story?[00:08:00]
Shari Bayer: Um, it's a good question. I mean, it is about their story and that also, uh, I mean, for me as a PR person that kind of became a publicist by accident. I did not study it. I just kind of fell into it. Um, when I discovered that you could work with restaurants and chefs and clients and help promote them for what they're doing, um, and you didn't necessarily have to be the one with the restaurant or the bar.
Um, but I only take on clients that I truly believe in that I feel, you know, quality. Quality product something that I can stand behind myself because I can't tell someone something's great if I genuinely don't believe it is. Um, so, so that's, you know, where I start with that, but what's, you know, I've been doing PR for a long time.
I started my company in 2003, but what keeps it, what keeps it fresh and exciting for me is that every restaurant and client is different with what their story is. And [00:09:00] what's unique about them, even though having worked with lots of restaurants and openings, uh there's I guess a little bit of a formula, uh, that with PR with spreading the word or putting together press materials and reaching out some the media, but everyone's story is unique.
So I think as a PR person, it's, it's. Talking to them experiencing what they're about, trying their food, their concept, and understanding it. And then my job and the middle man between them and the media. Um, but it's, it's really, it's really a matter of understanding. What's unique about them for Jim? Yes.
He's the bread and, and the hospital. And, but you know, some people might, um, it might be a family business it's been around a long time or it might be just you. Uh, I mean, it, it could be anything, but I, I love, I love the, that that keeps it exciting and fresh for me. That everyone's story is unique.
Dan Ryan: And [00:10:00] then so sometimes people, I I've seen this a, a lot of times, mostly with entrepreneurs, they are doing what they're doing, cuz they found this passion.
They don't necessarily know exactly why, but they're just going and going and going. And sometimes they have a hard time telling the story. Um, Because it's hard for me also, I'm sure for a lot of people, it's hard to talk about ourselves, right. Going back to interviewing the interviewer, um, what's your process on, like, how do you actually get people comfortable to be vulnerable with you to tell the story so that it makes your job easier so that you can really have help get their message clear and then also out to the world at large?
Shari Bayer: Yeah. Well, I think I, I mean, it's true what you said, it's much easier to promote or talk about someone else and, um, uh, give them, uh, the recognition or, or, you know, [00:11:00] AC, uh, shout outs and, uh, For them versus for yourself. Um, I find that even, you know, with myself, like it's harder for me to let's say promote my own podcast, versus if I promote someone else's podcast.
Cause you know, you want someone else to shoot your horn. a little bit. Um, but I think people who reach out to publicists, like realize that, uh, we, we can be that voice and take it off their plate and, and tell their story. I mean, some, most people, um, you know, they're, it, it's, there's a reason they they're opening this restaurant or, or business and usually they are passionate about it or else they wouldn't be into it full force.
Um, so I think, I think it's my, I, you know, talk about hospitality. I think it's my own hospitality in a sense of just being like open to listen, being nice, being, [00:12:00] being. Available, uh, to hear their story and to figure out what it is that's special about it, that we can then relay that message to other people.
Dan Ryan: So just really listening to them, hearing them, getting them comfortable, which I think is a great segue into like point of this whole podcast and this experiment that I'm working on, but like, how do you define hospitality in how you're operating your business, but then also to how you experience and both give and receive it.
Shari Bayer: Yeah. And I mean, I mean, I love that you ha you're doing, you came up with this idea of this podcast, cuz it's a really, it's a great question. And I don't think it's something. Yeah. There's not one certain way. You need to define what hospitality is. But for me I feel it's a feeling it's um, it's, it's w from a guest to a host, whoever the guest is or the, customer or the peop or [00:13:00] the host to the customer, um, how you're making them feel.
And I feel like it's, uh, uh, when you, when hospitality, when people understand hospitality or get it right, they make you feel so special and so welcome. And so. Important and that they're genuinely happy to see you, that they want to, they want you to feel good. And the people who are in the hospitality industry, or I think I would say, get in it for the right reasons, get that.
I think sometimes people might think they wanna open a restaurant and they don't realize that it is about how hospitality and welcoming people and, and, and going that extra mile for them be. So they feel so good. They, they can't wait to come back.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Um, also in our initial conversations, it turns out we have a mutual friend in Glen Cobin.
Yes. [00:14:00] And I, that was really surprising to, well, not surprising, like he knows everybody and he's such an amazing guy and, um, He wrote the, so he did this really cool thing where he wrote this book called the architect's cookbook. Right. And right. Um, so he's talking about his design experience of the built environment, but for each restaurant and then each cook or each chef that he would work with, they would do a, um, he, he would have a, a recipe from that.
And also talk about the whole experience of opening, designing, and building and opening the restaurant. And then the cooking were, and I did, I'm sorry, I didn't do research on this, but were any of those restaurants in his book, your clients.
Shari Bayer: No, I had to think about it, but I, I am, I am good friends with him through the industry. And I remember when he introduced the, told me he was gonna be working on this book and I kind of was there for part of the process. And I think it was, [00:15:00] uh, uh, very cool. And I think one thing with Glen that stands out is that he, um, all of his restaurants are so unique to themselves and their own style and voice, uh, that he he's able to capture.
But, um, I was like, I'm hoping I'm answering that. Right. But no, I don't think, I, I don't think any of the restaurants in his book have been clients. Okay. But maybe, or his next book we'll work on that. Yeah,
Dan Ryan: totally. Well, I hope he is writing his next book because I think what's really cool is if you think about from the dis like a ven diagram, right?
So you have the design. Then you actually have the culinary experience and then the whole story it's, it's almost like between the, the chef, the design, and then you telling the story, it's like this perfect intersection of talking about that, as you were saying, like the, that feeling, it, it like you can drive straight at that feeling, um, in a very focused way by combining all three of them.[00:16:00]
Shari Bayer: Yes. I mean, design is super important and I think his approach from what I know is he does, he, I think is similar to mine. He listens, he talks, he figures out what the, uh, What the, uh, restaurateur is looking for with the feel they wanna get. And, um, and it takes a lot of listening to figure that out, but yes, design plays a huge role in the feel of a place for sure.
And, and, and it's, I think a, you know, service, food ambiance, it's all very important to, to make a complete hospitality, wonderful experience for someone in my opinion.
Dan Ryan: Totally. And I, I've heard you say the words, listen, and hear so many times just since we've started talking and then speaking previously.
Um, and if you think about learning from your clients and thinking about just in New York city and the restaurants and what everyone [00:17:00] went through with all of the shutdowns and lockdowns and just, and then the exciting movement outside to all this outdoor dining, which I really hope never goes away, because I think that is like a silver lining of.
The pandemic in New York city, um, in all the listenings as you were going through what we all just went through, but especially in New York city restaurants, what did you listen to and hear from your clients? And what, what, what did you learn? The what, what was your like biggest learning through coming through this trough?
Wow.
Shari Bayer: I mean, it's, it's, it's, I've been in Manhattan. I've, I've been in Manhattan since 1998 and I've stayed. I was here through the pandemic. I did not leave my Manhattan apartment. So, um, It was, it was, I mean, I think about it a lot, like what it was like, and it was daily changes for us [00:18:00] as just people and for the restaurants, it was just, it was like nonstop every day was like a new policy or change or you can you serve, uh, to go cocktails.
Now you can't, you can do outdoor dining. You can't indoor outdoor, like was constant. I mean the resilience of restaurants. I mean, we've, I've already known that, that they are, they are just strong people, but they are, they like, they can get through anything they're so, and, and, and they there, and it's, uh, I mean, I, I was, I'm always impressed with restaurant tours, but I think it, it, it upped my level of.
Compassion and, and understanding of what restaurateurs need to go through to run their business. I had one, one friend client I've done work with over the years. Uh, Barbara SI of LA palapa, which is down in the east village. [00:19:00] She stayed open throughout the entire pandemic. She was feeding half hospital workers.
She just she's a dynamo. And she would say she was quoted an article, one saying that it was like opening a new restaurant every single day. I mean it like, and I mean, probably for the first like couple months or something, or maybe the whole year it's 2020, but, um, like, wow. I mean, And I, as someone working, you know, I got into this industry cause I am passionate about restaurants and hospitality myself.
And there's just a, I have a love for restaurants in particular, but like it just, as someone on the outside, I just wanted to help and do what I could to, to spread the word. I mean, I was grateful to have my podcast as a, as a way, additional way to help spread the word all is happening in the industry.
But I don't know if I'm answering your question, but I feel , it's just an overall. Just an overall appreciation for restaurateurs [00:20:00] and, and why they do what they do. They do it because they love it. Mm-hmm and, and they'll make it, they, they, they made it, you know, the, it was, it's still it's. I mean, I hate to say it's not completely over yet, but we're, we stars you light at the end, end of the tunnel.
And I just, I just have a lot of, I guess, empathy and PA compassion for what they do. And I'm grateful to know chefs and Western tours. Cause they're, they're really good giving people.
Dan Ryan: So as you were saying, what I heard you say is just resilient, right? Mm-hmm and, and I love that idea of as, as the world's changing on a minute by minute, hour by hour basis, I love how she said it's like, we're starting a new restaurant every single day.
And that really goes to resilience because. You could just pack it up and shut it all down. But no, we keep going. We keep going. I mean, I've had some pretty gnarly business experiences where [00:21:00] I've had a coach just say, look, Dan, I know it's really hard, but it's all about resilience right now. Right? You gotta just L breathe that word in and breathe that word out and be resilient.
And I think from a lot of your clients and even just all restaurants everywhere, but especially in New York city, um, I mean, I've seen it, I've heard it. And I think we can all learn from it.
Shari Bayer: Yeah. I mean, it was, it's a tough industry without a pandemic. I mean, , you know, it's hard, it's a hard business. The margins are tight.
You're working, you know, 24 7 you're working when everyone has holiday breaks. You're, you know, it's, it's, it's a hard in industry and that was, um, the pandemic was certainly certainly extremely challenging for the hospitality industry. And, um, I just, yeah, give them, give restaurant tours a lot of credit for also [00:22:00] a lot of, you know, the independent restaurant coalition was formed and war this organization in New York, Eric, where restaurant tours came together to help each other and to talk and to.
And to, uh, be a community, which that was something that was actually great, that was born out of the pandemic, where it was versus previously more having independent restaurants, just making their own decisions and not communicating with it, with each other about what they were doing, um, to, to survive or thrive.
They came together and I feel that, um, uh, was a really nice thing. I guess if I, if I could say a silver lining of it,
Dan Ryan: totally. And as you were saying that I had, I had to look it up, but I used to live right around the corner from prune and Gabrielle. Um, I forget her last name, uh, Hamilton Hamilton at the beginning of the pandemic, she wrote this [00:23:00] incredibly moving, uh, article in the New York times.
Yeah. Just about like. How New York has changed and this and that. And I guess how she's just like, I need to just move on and do something different. But I, I lived like right around the corner, they had the best food and everything there. But when you read that article, um, because I think that that thing went viral.
Shari Bayer: Yeah. Like how did that read?
Dan Ryan: Yeah, I think I read it three times and I just, I totally forgot about it until you were speaking because something just brought me right back there, cuz it was so moving. Like what were your feelings as you read that?
Shari Bayer: I mean, I wish I could go back right now and read it, but I, I a bit heartbreaking.
I think, um, if I, that piece, because it was so honest, I mean, she's this she's truly honest, raw writer. She's excellent writer. Totally. Love her love. I mean, I've had great meals of prune, prunes, amazing people like appreciate her food [00:24:00] and her restaurant, but she's also become this voice in the industry where she's, I mean, this wasn't the first piece she's written and, um, yeah, it was a bit, it was, so it was so honest, it was a bit heartbreaking, uh, in the sense of like, how to it was, but you kind of were, I guess, as an optimist, like thinking we're gonna get through this, and this is just the reality now, but this is like, I mean, she laid it out and I think so many people resonated with what she said, because it was, it was the truth, um, and appreciated it versus, uh, maybe putting, uh, what do you, you know, uh, bells and whistles on something that's really not, not so fabulous,
Dan Ryan: but, um, yeah, but, but through all of it, you could, there was this.
Even though she was closing prune, there was this undying passion mm-hmm through, through the theme of the article as she was writing it. And then when you think about how hard it is [00:25:00] to work and run in a New York city or any restaurant, but in New York city in particular, just like those kitchens are so small.
And I had friends that when I first moved to New York city, who were, they were chefs and they were up and coming and they're like, they're in it. I mean, it is not just, um, all the passion and just the skill you need to actually make it. But it's also a feat of endurance.
Shari Bayer: Yeah. I mean, I've, I've, I've dined there a few times.
It's a tight restaurant. It's intimate. Um, and. I think I've maybe seen a picture of the kitchen, the kitchen. I know it's small. I've worked with a lot of restaurants that are, are tiny kitchens and, uh, one, you know, they make, I don't know, sometimes when you sometimes go to these and, and they're amazing restaurants for, let's say Danielle Belu or something, and they have these gorgeous kitchen and it's like, I'm, oh, this is so fantastic.
That is not a reality for everyone. And [00:26:00] so a lot of times they're, they're working in such hard conditions between space, between the heat of the kitchen, between the urgency of things between, you know, it's something. When I worked in restaurants back in the day, I used to think, um, And I was a manager at one point I used to think I was like being, I was a firefighter.
It was my analogy of like going into work and not knowing it would be a problem. Something would come up. You didn't know what it was and your job was to put it, to figure it out. But that's like the daily life of a restaurant, you know, it's like, you don't, something's gonna happen. And you don't know exactly what it is, but you gotta be on your toes and ready to, to figure it out.
And the people are really good at it. Make it look so easy that customers don't even notice any of this is happening.
Dan Ryan: I a hundred percent. And then, you know, as you're talking about palapa and then prune, and then I just are, remember I living in the east Val village and alphabet [00:27:00] city, um, there were so many great restaurants because I found the east village in particular.
It's kind of like this bump out, right? It's not really a thoroughfare, it's this place where you want to be. Right. You're there for a reason you're not passing through. Then we move to Chelsea and I found that all the restaurants or not all, but most of the restaurants with these bigger, like they've kind of up and came and they're there, they're the, these more institutions.
Right. Um, which means higher rent, um, just more difficult leases. Um, whereas in the east village, and again, I'm not an expert at all. I just found like the, the smaller footprint, those tighter kitchens allowed for, um, more experimentation and more, um, literal collisions. And so many restaurants came and went there, but by the time you would go to Chelsea or another higher rent part of town, you know, you've, you've already made it and you're there, [00:28:00] but I loved.
The excitement and the passion of the, and the turnover of all the cool cuisines from the east village. Do you have an experience or feel, or, or thought on that?
Shari Bayer: I agree. 100%. Cause I, I live over by Columbus circle on the, on the upper west side or lower upper west side where it's, um, it's, it's O a lot of price here, restaurants in my neighborhood, but it's more, um, when I go down to the, the east village, it's all these like little local probably, you know, family run mostly gems in a sense, like you can walk down a couple blocks in the east village and just, it it's, they're packed in like one block.
You might have like 10. Restaurants where you're like, oh, that looks, I wanna go there. I wanna go there. Like, they're just, they're small, they're intimate. And they're doing something very, maybe, maybe it's just a one concept of something. Maybe they're only doing [00:29:00] Mac and cheese or they're only doing ramen or they're only, I don't know.
They're very specific. Mm-hmm into what they're. Um, and, but I definitely get that feeling. And I mean, both these restaurants were talking about LA Lapa and prune were, were well prune isn't. Well, it is
Dan Ryan: east village. It is it's. It was, uh, second or third between a and B or B and B
Shari Bayer: somewhere over there. Yeah.
Yeah, it is. And so I think that ne I agree with you that neighborhood just, there's so many gems, I think. And, um, I mean, like, I mean, restaurants come and go and, uh, turnover is it happens, but I feel there's a lot of places that have maintained or been around for a while down there, um, for, I, well, for whatever reason, maybe the rent is also a little easier.
Dan Ryan: that's a lot of what it is. Um, I have a question as, as a restaurant X, right? I'm more of a restaurant fan. You're an expert, but you're probably an expert and a, and a [00:30:00] super fan as well. Um, have you ever died somewhere for the first time, had such an incredible experience. You had a fear to go back because it would ruin the initial experience.
Shari Bayer: Um, I have, well, I dine out a lot and I also dine out a lot solo, like solo. Dining's kind of my thing. And I just like, like checking out restaurants. I am a super fan. In fact that you're calling me an expert. I grateful. Very nice. Um, trying to think, I mean the one place, I, I do think a, uh, I was fortunate to go to Brooklyn fair in when it was in, only in Brooklyn, in the early stages of the restaurant, because I remember they did not have, uh, a beer wine or liquor license.
It was, uh, B Y O B at the time. And so that was very early on and they didn't take [00:31:00] reservations for one. I went with a friend, but. I was blown away by the food. I remember it was like all these tiny, like, I mean, like 25, maybe little bites. I mean, they were small bites, but that was the tasting menu. And it was like 24 outta 25, I thought were absolutely incredible.
And the other one was amazing, you know? Great too. So that's one place they've since opened in Manhattan and they have a new location and I'm a little, like my experience of that restaurant was so amazing. I'm a little afraid to go back and like, Try it again, even though a part of me is like this, I should, I should, you know, it's all, it it's even a new location.
Mm-hmm but yeah, that, that stands out as, or the only one I can think of right off the top of my head.
Dan Ryan: no, the reason why I'm asking. I, I started thinking about this. Um, I, when, before [00:32:00] I lived in New York city, I came here on a business trip and, um, I went to Grammarcy Tavern and I did the whole tasting menu with, um, there were probably about eight of us and I don't know if it was, the food was great.
It's always, well, this was 18 years ago. The food was really good. The wine we did, the pairing, it was amazing. Um, but somehow the Somalia and the waiter, they made it into such a journey and it was like one of the best dining experiences I ever had that I never, ever, ever wanted to go back. And then in 2019, I went back.
Again, another situation where just one with some friends, but I, I was fearful of going back and then, um, it just wasn't the same. I don't know if like someone wasn't there, it just, it really fell flat. And it almost ruined that first experience that I had to, whereas I also went to this other place, uh, did many, many [00:33:00] years ago, and I I'm scared to go back because again, I think it was the Somalia.
I think the Somalia at both of these places, um, made it just this incredible journey where I could suspend all disbelief. They could tell me it's paired and you can taste hints of chocolate and nut Megan. I just believe it. And I'm just, they take me on this journey, but I'm just, I have this fear of going back, cuz I just, in one case, the experience was not the same.
And in the, this last one, I just don't wanna mess with it. You've never had that.
Shari Bayer: Well, well I think my, my Brooklyn fair isn't like that. Yeah,
Dan Ryan: I guess it is.
Shari Bayer: Because it was so, I mean the whole experience, it was so amazing and I'm afraid if I go, maybe the food won't be as amazing or, or as like, to me, that was what, when the top meals I've ever had.
And I've dined out a lot. I mean, around the world, tasting menus. I mean, I travel a lot. I go [00:34:00] to lots of restaurants in my mind though. It's still like one of the best meals I've ever had and I kind of don't want to ruin that. Mm. So,
Dan Ryan: um, if you think about,
I don't know, like if there, I'm trying to think of like, okay, so you have such an extensive list of clients. If, if you were to, is there a dream client that you've always wanted to have, but either have just never met the opportunity, never came around, but like, who would your ultimate dream client be from a restaurant perspective?
Shari Bayer: Oh, wow.
I don't know. I don't know. Um,
Dan Ryan: I mean, I where's it like, you know, we love all of our children equally.
Shari Bayer: I've been fortunate to work with so many, so many wonderful people. And I know through, I mean, I started doing my podcasts because I just know a lot of people in the industry and I feel I've a, you know, I'm fortunate that I, I know [00:35:00] people let's say like, like Danny Meyer .
Was my guest to me, you know, will always be so special. And the fact that I know Danny and I have a relationship with him and it's, um, to me, that, that makes me feel great. Would I then say, oh, well, well, it would be amazing to repre work on one of Danny's restaurants. Sure.
I would think, yeah, I, I say that, but then also this kind of ties into like, not to RUO, you know, a special experience or a restaurant, like, well, maybe that would change if I worked with Danny. And what if, what if it wasn't as great doing his PR or it didn't go as well or whate you know, I mean, so I don't know.
I don't know if I have an exact dream. Client. I just feel, I feel lucky that I, I I'm at the point with my business where most of my client comes from clients come from referrals and [00:36:00] that people know I've been doing this for a long time and that I'm, uh, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm in it. I'm not I'm, I'm, I'm still like a one woman show basically with my company where I do the work and I have the relationship with the clients and, and the media.
And, um, so I'm not really answering your question, but I guess, I guess maybe I'm saying Danny minor, but no, actually of it,
Dan Ryan: you, you answered it. You actually answered it perfectly because actually, if I think of like the ultimate guest, um, If I think of the ultimate guest that I would want on this show, it would be Danny Meyer because I have read his books.
He was actually, and despite the Grammarcy Tavern story, I think it was just a, an off night, but there was also that first experience was just the, the greatest experience. And then I like listening to setting the table, um, with my kids on a road [00:37:00] trip to, I, I don't know we were going up to lake PLA. We listened to his whole book there and back, and they were like, wow, that's really awesome.
I want to have a restaurant. And, um, he was actually the last person I saw from the industry before everything shut down, I guess it was March 20, 20 marcher, late February or early March, 2020. I was at this hospitality design summit in, um, where was that Cancun? I think. And he was like the keynote speaker.
And then I went up after with a book. Uh, I guess I asked a question, I got handed a book and then I went up. I said, oh my God, you're my hero. I, um, I've eaten next to you at your restaurants for breakfast. And you know, you're always there having a great he's like, oh, why didn't you come say hello? I was like, you look like you were in a, he, uh, important conversation.
He's like, no, like anytime you see me in a restaurant, come up and say hello. Um, I was like, okay. So I haven't seen him because the world shut down, but he signed the book and he was just awesome. And I love [00:38:00] how he recruits and hires people with his idea of this hospitality quotient. Right. And that measurable.
And it's really the filter and value by which he looks at everything. And I get it that you're friends with him. And I think that I told totally understand why you wouldn't wanna work with him because that might change the dynamic of your friendship.
Shari Bayer: Yes. And I wouldn't say I'm, I'm not like, I'm not like.
I mean we're, we're, we're, we're, we're friendly. We're fr yeah, he's an industry friend, but I'm not like, but I'm not like best buddies with Danny, but, um, I have gotten to know him over the years a little bit, and I've always had an appreciation for him in his restaurants and, and as what he stands for. And I think one, I mean, one thing he's, he he's known for saying, and, uh, I'm kind of improvising, but that like, you can't, you can't teach [00:39:00] someone to be like a nice person, but you can teach them skills.
You can teach them, you know, how to, how to fold a napkin or something, you know? So when he is hiring, it's more like looking at personality, um, for, for his team. And that, that has always resonated with me. Cause you can't. Yeah. You can't teach someone to be hospitable or maybe Penn, but you know, to be nice.
Yeah. I don't know if within,
Dan Ryan: to me, it's almost like if you're hiring for culture, Rather than skills, right? Because you, a person, people are wired certain ways. Right. And you can't, you try, as you may to change people, you can't, you can teach them skills, but if you're hiring for culture and if hospitality is like, number one, you hire for that for the interpersonal skills.
If you're, if you're hiring a nuclear physic, you're gonna be hiring them for other reasons. Right?
Shari Bayer: Yeah. For sure. That makes sense. And, and if Danny called me up this afternoon and said, I have a new [00:40:00] project, I'd like to interview you talk about it. Would you, are you interested? I mean, that's like a no brainer.
Of course. I'm like, yes, yes. Oh good. You know, let's go. So, so, um, but yeah. It's um,
Dan Ryan: fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. um, so as you think about like, Where you are, where the industry is, where it's going, what's exciting. You most about the future?
Shari Bayer: Hmm. Well, I mean, I, I love restaurants and I feel that what for what everyone has been through in the past couple of years, that we are like very optimistic for the future.
And just getting back to, I mean, people saying normal or the new normal, or just, just. Bringing people together and, and just, I feel we've been through so much that the, that it's, [00:41:00] it should be, I guess, in a sense, easier I don't to, but hardship kind of, you know, it brings out it your, as you said, your resilience and I think a, also your creativity, I mean, a lot of creativity was born through the pandemic, um, or, or people really got figured things out in, or thought of things out of the box differently.
I think what I'm most excited about in the future is people to be more willing, to take risks in a sense that maybe they weren't as comfortable with.
Before that maybe the pandemic kind of helped them get over a fear of like, let's just go for this and be creative. Um, I wor was working with a chef, Eric Bruner yang in Washington, DC before the pandemic. He had a couple restaurants at the line hotel. Um, and one of them was spoken in English and it was a, a standing only restaurant, which when he opened [00:42:00] it, got some, you know, critique, even while it was open, people were a little skeptical of it.
Once they went and experienced it, they thought it was amazing. And you kind of didn't even notice you were standing, but that was, you know, that was a risk for him to take, like, you know, a standing only restaurant. It was very intimate. So I think we might see more of that in the, in the future of, of people just thinking out of the box and, and going for it.
And, and that excites me. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: So I love how you were saying this idea, being creative and taking risks and risks and creativity, and a standing only restaurant is a great example of that. Um, I was, as I look at Manhattan or New York city over the past 10 years, I think one of the riskiest things that I've seen was just the addition of all the bike lanes and city bikes, right.
It changed the city overnight. It was a surprise. No one saw it coming. Um, and [00:43:00] then also, and I think this was a risk, but a risk to try and help restaurateurs was out the push to outdoor dining. And if I think about bike lanes and, and then outdoor dining, it's changed the look and feel of Manhattan and Brooklyn in particular.
Um, do you see outdoor dining staying? Like, what are your feelings on that? Like what are you hearing? I hope it stays well.
Shari Bayer: I'm hearing there. I think the city is trying to figure it out. I mean, there's people, I think on both sides of the fence, some people who love the outdoor dining and all the setups, and then some people, neighborhoods are people that it's maybe disrupted their neighborhood to them a bit.
And they're not as happy about out it. And, um, as someone who was here during the pandemic, I took to city biking a lot. It's now become [00:44:00] well, if the weather's warm enough, it's now my favorite way to get around the city. And it was great in, especially in 2020 when I wasn't getting on the subway to get on the city bike and to, to, to see Manhattan and to bike around and get a, see what was happening with restaurants and who was open, who wasn't open, who built an outdoor patio, who didn't and the changes.
So I'm a big fan myself of city bikes and, and the bike lanes. Keep getting better. keep getting better, which I like too. Um, I think it's a little, I mean, but on the flip side, it is a bit dangerous because some of, some of the restaurants that have outdoor, uh, kiosks built, there's literally a bike lane going between the sidewalk and their outdoor store structure.
And they have like slow down signs, but literally bicycles are going, I guess you'd say in, through the middle of the restaurant, you could say, so [00:45:00] I think that's dangerous. Um, so far it's worked, um, I'm hoping, or I think. There will be, I don't think the outdoor structure isn't is gonna go away. I think there might be some, some rules about it or some permits or what you know, that people need to get.
But, um, I, I mean, I, I think it's been extremely helpful for restaurants and surviving and for, and some of them, even when they were able to build large outdoor decks and like double their capacity. So I think it's a, I think it's a good thing. I'm always, I'm pro restaurants. I want them to succeed, but, um, yeah, it's a little bit dangerous.
Dan Ryan: yeah. And I, I was also amazed at how, you know, isn't in New York, city's building code is, and really like overnight with very little code. Just all these structures started popping up and [00:46:00] it really was about a, it was a lifeline. To restaurants. I mean, it was AMA it was amazing that it actually happened and it was, and it was exciting.
I think we can just learn a lot from that as well.
Shari Bayer: Yes. And then, and then between 20, 20, some and 2021, I would bike around and see the improvements and the more investments and these structures, they, they got PR some of them got very fancy. Um, but you're right. Like just that, that they were able to put these things together very fast.
Dan Ryan: Totally. Um, so staying with the risk and creativity theme here, cuz I really, I, I really like where this is going. Um, a lot of people started pushing me to do this podcast. I was like, I don't wanna do a people are who wants to listen to me or my guest, but I realize no one wants to listen to me. Everyone wants to listen to my amazing guests like you.
So when you were deciding to do, to do your podcast all in the industry, like how big of a risk [00:47:00] was that for you. How do you feel creatively fulfilled doing, doing it now,
Shari Bayer: once again, thank you. Um, I feel probably, we're probably similar in a sense of, you know, the reasons we started doing a podcast, just something be passionate.
I was passionate about it. Um, I hit the 10 year mark with my having my PR business and I was sort of thinking like now what . And that was kind of where I knew a couple people at podcast. I mean, I started in 2014, so it wasn't as fill a filled market. I guess you say a lot of people have podcasts now. Um, but I just came up with an idea.
I had zero variant. I'd never even been on a podcast. I'd never been on a show. Um, but it was an idea behind the scenes to cover behind the scenes in hospitality people I knew in the industry that did something with restaurants in the hospitality space, that was, [00:48:00] uh, different than what I did. Um, but they weren't necessarily cl of mine.
Uh, they weren't necessarily media, which I know a lot of as a PR person, they were just people. I knew they, they did the cocktail programs, they did design the restaurants. They, you know, they were chefs themselves. So, so I, it was the idea came up, uh, with, and I guess I'm a, I, well, I guess I'm a risk taker.
I, I certainly am. I, I like to challenge myself. I like to try new things. Um, I like to go for it and I did. And it's also my show with the pandemic. It's now it's not live, but for the first, before it was, it was. Wednesday's four, o'clock live from heritage radio network in the backyard of Roberta's restaurant, which, uh, you know, outside, we were in a shipping container with a, a, a restaurant happening back on the other side of the window =that could see us and we could see them.
[00:49:00] And so there was something, it was nerve-wracking especially being on a lot show. Um, now I still do my show. Like it's live, we really don't edit much at all. I mean, barely, barely over all these years I've edited. But, um, I guess it's, it's, it's exciting for me. I, I, like, as you said with, I mean, talking to guests, like I like hearing people's story and having a platform that I can share that with other people and.
I like, I mean, my guests are coming on the show and talking about what they know best themselves and their careers. So usually my guests are amazing. They're so articulate they're so, you know, they, that, I just am kind of like leaving the ship and, and it's, um, and I, like, I'm not a huge talker on my show.
I like the guy us to talk way more than me. So, yeah. Um, but it's still, I think it's still a risk in a [00:50:00] sense that I'm doing it, that I'm still putting myself out there and, and talking to people and you don't know what, you know, it's, as I said, we do it like it's live, so you don't know, I can prep for the show, but I still don't know what one's gonna say, how the conversation's gonna go.
Exactly. So it's, um, It's a bit risky, but I guess I, I, I like that. I guess I find it exciting. yeah.
Dan Ryan: Um, if so thinking, uh, going on a risk risk taking, and if you look at, um, your 25 years plus plus career, as you said, um, if you were to go back and look at the mentors that you, you had. Cause I believe we all stand on the shoulders of those before us, which one of your mentors really helped you learn to take risks and be okay with taking risks?
Shari Bayer: It's interesting cuz I don't, I don't [00:51:00] know if I'm one of those people that has like exact people. I think of my specific mentors, but. For some reason, his name is he's just popping into my head now. Um, I was a server at Charlie Trotter's back in 1997. Uh, and actually before that I got that job. I went to cooking school in Chicago.
I thought I wanted to be a chef. And then I saw Charlie Trotter was hiring front and house staff and more friend house experience them back. And I went in, I got hired and I was there about a year working, um, for him. And he was so ahead of his time and he was such a risk taker. And I mean, he's, he was intent.
It was an intense job. It was a very hard job cuz to talk about, I mean, hospitality, people are going into this risk on the mostly special occasions, looking for this extraordinary experience. And as someone who's a server, there there's a lot of pressure on you, but um, [00:52:00] I'm very grateful to have that had that experience and to have gotten to know him and work with him.
And, um, I feel there's something about he, I mean, yeah, he, he definitely was a ahead of his time and taking risks. And so maybe, maybe that has inspired me a bit.
Dan Ryan: Okay. So that's super interesting because, okay. He's amazing. He's a legend, right? You're working there in 1997, as you said, it's intense, right?
Everything is intense. Just getting as a server. It's so hard. And then if you go back to how you define hospital, it was like about that feeling. So in that intensity and stress, stressful environment, how did he make you feel at ease?
Shari Bayer: I don't know if he did.[00:53:00]
Um, no, he was nice. He never, I'm not, I, I, I like Charlie. I think he was intense. He was a perfectionist. And I think as someone, I mean, I think I'm, I don't like the word perfectionist at all, but I am definitely someone who aims for perfection and that type of person that worked there. And I feel, um, it, you know, I was, I, was it fit me or I was, I was, I was, I was good at it, but I felt, um, I mean, I think just making sure your staff and I felt taking care of, or, or part of the team, just the little extra, you know, feedback or compliments on something you did, um, at the end of service.
But I don't think it was, it wasn't like the most. Like warm and fuzzy, I'd say . Oh, so that's, it was serious. It was a serious dining
Dan Ryan: experience. [00:54:00] So that's amazing because if you think about, okay, this warm and fuzzy feeling and idea of hospitality, right. And making others feel at ease and welcome, and maybe it's the guests, right.
Because mm-hmm, , you're serving them, but that I've, I've talked to other people in this podcast and throughout my career, that just are the types with this uncompromising vision. Right. And they can be almost tyrannical about it, but you, they are painting such a precise picture of that experience that it, like whenever I'm around people like that, I also feel chow to like, get over the bar and like to, to please.
Right. Yeah. So was it more like that type of an experience?
Shari Bayer: Yeah, I think that resonates with me, for sure. Like, yeah, it was, it was challenging. It was, it was, there was a lot of pressure, but it was also. Exciting. There was a, he had a table in the, in his kitchen, the chef's table that was literally in [00:55:00] like right at the pass.
And sometimes I would be assigned to be the server at that table and they got their own special menu with all these amuse at the beginning. And it was like, it was very special. Um, but it was a, it was, it was hard. Like you're in, then you're in the kitchen and Charlie or the chefs, they can hear, you know, your dialogue with the table.
And, um, but I think just wanting to, for myself, uh, Bring and, and have the guests have that extraordinary experience. And I was a part of it, something about being a part of it, this like, you know, that he was what he was doing and that being, being on the team, being, being the person responsible for that kitchen table, I mean, it made me feel special or it made me feel like, okay, he trusts me to do this.
And, um, and that there was something in that [00:56:00] for sure. That that motivated me.
Dan Ryan: Thank you for sharing. And then, okay. So again, going back to you, the storyteller, right? You, the storyteller, um, what story do you wanna write for yourself over the next year?
Shari Bayer: See this, this one. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a planner. I have no idea what I'm gonna be doing.
A week from now a year from now. I am a doer though. So I'll definitely be doing something and probably something to new and challenging. I mean, I didn't, we, uh, just touching it briefly. Like I, I did a conference in January, 2020. That was a, again, an idea that I came up with and I, I literally did a conference called host, which stands for hospitality, operations services and technology.
And it was based [00:57:00] on my podcast, but like being behind the scenes and hospitality, but bringing everyone together in a live format with panel discussions, and I've always been someone who's a networker and likes bringing people together. So I I'm glad I have photos and videos of this it's because it was a full day.
Event. And it was very successful and people asked me when I'm bringing it back. And I haven't decided yet because if you're plan, if you're thinking of making this show into a pod, uh, this podcast into a conference, let me just tell you right now, it's a lot of work. , it's a lot of work, but it was, it was so well received that I probably will bring it back on some level.
Where was it? It was at the William Vale in Brooklyn. Oh, in Williamsburg. And it was in their conference room downstairs, but it started with, we had a breakfast, we had lunch, we had a, a Carrie, a lunch session. We had cocktail hour. I mean, it was a full blown blown thing. Um, [00:58:00] and it was, it, it was, I mean, the, the feedback was really great.
Made me, made me feel good. Um, so I don't know. Maybe I bring that back. I mean, I started, I created all in the industry as a company, separate from bay public relations. Um, I don't know. Uh, but I mean, to answer your question, it's like, we'll see, I, I'm definitely someone who, who likes challenging myself and I'm a worker.
I like work. I've always liked work. So, um, you're gonna have to stay tuned. Well, as
Dan Ryan: you shared that idea of building community, um, doing these convers stations is pretty, it's a very different way of communicating, right? You're doing this long format communication. If you have dinner with someone or lunch, you're getting interrupted, would you like sparkling or still would you like a bottle of wine?
What, what are you gonna order? This is like a very different and very open way of communicating. That just goes on. Right. And [00:59:00] I think about all the guests that I've had, and I'm sure it's similar with you. It's like you guys all have these sh or we, you and, and I have these shared passions with. The people that we're talking to.
Right. And as you were saying, that conferencing, I wasn't thinking of doing a conference, but I am, there's this thing that's scratching at me of like, Hey, how do I build a community out of this? Maybe a conference is one option. I don't know. Um, maybe just other shared interpersonal experiences, something experiential.
Um, yeah. I'd love to talk to you more about that offline, because I, I just feel like there is so much more and I think so much is missed and we're all craving this, these collisions with each other. And, um, that sounds awesome. I didn't know that you did that and that's bad on me.
Shari Bayer: Oh, no, it's all good. I mean, but that's inspiring.
I wear a lot of hats. I also, I mean, I mean, I write a little bit [01:00:00] on the side too, about solo dining and travel just because it's something I do a lot, but, um, yeah, I've always been all, I mean, I'm all in the industry, literally I'm and the conference was, I mean, it, it ex you can look it up a lot now. Oh, I'm going to Glen.
Glen was, I had a, there, one of I curated the program and one of the sessions was, was Glen Cobin and Jimmy Yui. Do you know Jimmy? No, Jimmy designs kitchens. And the two of them have worked together on projects. And so their panel was the two of them in a one on one conversation talking to each other about design with restaurants.
So, um, that was, yeah, it was, it was a very, it was very special. I mean, it was, I got lucky that it was the end of January 20. 20. And then it was literally, you know, the world shut [01:01:00] down like six weeks later. Mm. So it would be interesting also to do, do another conference and the conversations will be different now, you know, I think back like, totally just, we didn't know what was coming when we were having those conversations.
And
Dan Ryan: then if let's just pretend you, you were gonna do the conference again tomorrow, mm-hmm , everything was set up and you're going, what would you do differently tomorrow than you did in January, 2020?
Shari Bayer: Um, I don't know. I think I, I liked, I mean, it was, it was the only thing I'm thinking is maybe it doesn't have to be as elaborate. I mean, it, we had a lot of components from the. Breakfast to cocktail hour. Um, it could be the same, but I don't. I think as you said, like it's about, I mean, there's something about bringing people together and that's really my, my, my motivation for it is like connecting people and bringing us together.
And I don't think you [01:02:00] need all of the hoopla in a sense, not like it was like so hoopla, but, but you know what I mean? Like, I don't think you, I think it could be more, um, maybe not as complex or just like, uh, maybe a half day conference or, um, it doesn't, or not as doesn't have to be as fancy of a venue, mean it was lovely, but I don't know if, if I think right now, especially people just wanna connect and people miss that in person connection.
Uh, so I mean, with, with. With in the past two years, I didn't have the desire to make it into an online conference. Also. It wasn't my one business that I had to do that. So I just have like put it on hold, but I think if I brought it back, it would, it, it, it's just about bringing people together.
Dan Ryan: I love it.
And that's so inspirational and I never even thought about that. So thank you for sharing. And we will talk [01:03:00] about more about that, lastly. Okay. um, so if you go back to your server self, working at Charlie Trotter's in Charlie Trotters in what? 1997. Yeah. Good
Shari Bayer: memory.
Dan Ryan: Um, what advice does the Sherry of today give your former self?
Shari Bayer: Um,
I think, I think I've learned it's like be kind to yourself, like sometimes. I'm so I'm, I'm that more people pleasing type personality. And sometimes you, especially people in the hospitality industry. I think you're so giving that you're more concerned sometimes with other people than you are with yourself.
And I think, I mean, it's definitely know this is cliche. I guess what people say, like, you gotta take care of yourself [01:04:00] before you could take care of anyone else. I think it's very true. I think sometimes, you know, restaurant life. Especially back then. I mean, the hours the, I mean, I didn't, I don't during that period.
I don't think I didn't do anything besides go to work I was like and sleep. I mean, it was like, that was it. So I think taking time for yourself, figuring out some work life balance and making sure you know, that, that you you're in tune with what your own needs are. Um, I think that's really important. I think the industry's changed a bit that over the, you know, since then that people are thinking about that and, and, and kitchens and restaurants are run a bit differently, but, um, I think you, you know, I, I think just.
Making sure you're taking care of yourself. You're providing hospitality for yourself. I think is important.
Dan Ryan: It's really important. I, I think about like what I do and it's my furnish hotels and what I [01:05:00] love about it the most is I get to make sure others are having the best possible journey towards opening their hotel.
Like that's what lights me up. Um, but what lights me up even more than that is when I can short and other people's journeys through introduction. Um, just, Hey, I, I have this idea or that someone wants to learn this and I can just kind of connect the dots a little bit faster. Um, and it's interesting you say that because I just think about, Hey, how do I shorten my own journey?
You know, I'm always so concerned with others that sometimes I, it is good to take a look at ourselves. And maybe for those of us in this industry, it's hard for us. To think about ourselves in that way.
Shari Bayer: Well, I think, I think people who get into this and do what we do, there's something about our careers and, uh, our personality is why, why, why I do PR uh, you know, you wanna help other people.
So, um, but yeah, I think, I think it is important for [01:06:00] all of us to, to reflect on that and sort of make sure that we're taking care of our own needs. And, um, yeah, I also, I just wanted to mention there was another job I had in Chicago before Trotters, where I was an office manager at a micro brewery called Brock bottom
And that job that was when I, I really, they had, they had a, a saying. That I don't hear much, but it was called L LA yacht. And it basically meant like going that extra mile for someone like, like as a, I mean, I wasn't a server there, but that was their whole philosophy. And I always think about that when I was thinking about the show and hospitality, um, it's like going beyond someone's expectations.
And I learned that from this micro brewery
Dan Ryan: well, I I've learned a lot in micro breweries.
Shari Bayer: there you go. There you go. Depreciate. Good, good beer. [01:07:00]
Dan Ryan: yeah, mostly how I don't like wheat beers, but I prefer an IPA or a Pilsner. So,
Shari Bayer: um, but that, yeah, I don't know my restaurant experience. I think it definitely. Plays into my, what I do today.
I, I, I, I mean, that's knowing what it's like to wait tables or be a manager or a server, and even cook in a kitchen. I think that helps me today to understand what it takes to run a restaurant and also the, the, the empathy. So of notion that, that it's, it's hard. It's a very hard industry.
Dan Ryan: well, it is a hard industry, but Sherry, I will, I will say it again.
It's inspiring to, to see the community that you've built and the followers that you have. And I think we all have so much to teach each other if going to back to how you first started talking it's, but we all just gotta listen. So [01:08:00] I just wanna say thank you for. Sharing your insights on hospitality and just your, your life experience as well.
And I can't wait to learn more about community building from you. Um, how can people connect with you?
Shari Bayer: Well, they can find me on social media. I'm I have a bunch of accounts I've got at Sherry Bayer at Bayer PR and at all industry also have the same websites, uh, Sherry bayer.com, Bayer public relations.com and all the industry.com and probably the best email for me is Sherry Bayer, public relations.com.
Wonderful. That's
Dan Ryan: the OG good. The OG. We love it. So we'll put all that in the liner notes as well. If you're driving and listening, um, butcher, I just wanna say thank you so much for your time and your insights.
Shari Bayer: Thank you. I, I greatly appreciate. You having me on your show. It's fantastic. I've [01:09:00] listened to a bunch of them and I'm gonna listen to some more and I say, keep doing what you're doing.
And I hope to meet you in person. One of these.
Dan Ryan: Yes, we will meet in person soon. I promise. And also I just wanna thank our listeners. Um, I'm hoping that this is of a, all your thinking on hospitality, both giving and receiving, and really just listening and hearing others and making others feel at ease. Um, and if it did, please share it, um, share this podcast with a friend and everyone.
Thank you so much. And we'll catch you next time. Thank you.
Shari Bayer: Thank you.