Defining Hospitality

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Dan Ryan: Today's guest is passionate about creating immersive design experiences. He's an industry thought leader. He's 20 eighteens hip designer of the year from interior design magazine. He is the design director at rotate studio, ladies and gentlemen, James call. Welcome James.
James Cull: Hey, Dan. Thanks for having me. I'm good.
Dan Ryan: Well, thanks for, thank you for being here. Um, look, we've known each other for a really long time. You've been on a really cool career path, um, which I want to get into, but I think one of the most exciting projects [00:01:00] from an industry perspective that. I'm just really excited to have worked with you and your team on, or your teams on, um, is this new Marriott headquarters hotel, because if we really step back and think about Marriott moving from, uh, the office park in Bethesda to downtown, and this being one of Arnie Sorenson, his last model rooms that he was involved in as a, as a hospitality industry leader.
And then you guys coming in. And really making a hotel right next to the mothership. I mean, that's a huge undertaking and responsibility I think, for the industry. So first of all, And I just really want to talk about that and kind of hear about your experience there, but then, you know, just kind of see where the conversation goes, but like I'm just happy and honored to have you here.
So thank you.
James Cull: Well, thank you. I'm happy and honored to be here. And I was very happy and honored and excited. Nervous to get that Marriott project, of course, being right next to the mothership, as you say it, um, it was a big [00:02:00] deal and, and there were a lot of eyes on that project. And, um, it was kind of interesting to see Marriott reaffirm their roots in Bethesda, which I thought was really, um, kind of a beautiful story.
And that kind of was the Genesis of a lot of the concepts for that hotel, which were quite abstract. Um, we usually try. Route our design in a sense of place and location. Um, you know, in context of the local architecture and history and the building that it's going to live within and all that. So to try to understand what does Bethesda mean to Marriott, um, in terms of Maryland, but also kind of looking at the historical meaning of Bethesda.
We discovered that it was, um, you know, there's the famous fountain and, um, Israel of Bethesda, and it's a place of kind of wellbeing. Um, rebirth and we wanted this, um, kind of, it also means like the house of kindness. And so that kind of became our driving force in our mindset. The bumper's kind of on our bowling alley in a way to design the space that always went back to.[00:03:00]
This idea of hospitality and it makes sense for Marriott, which owns multiple brands, um, for us to really kind of dive back in. And what does hospitality mean for Marriott in 2022, as they're kind of, um, starting this new chapter in this new location? Yeah,
Dan Ryan: it is a new chapter. It is a new location, I think, on so many different levels.
Just from attracting younger workers or teammates that work there, just, just from an ease of getting to there from a public transportation point of view. Um, I think it's also going to reinvigorate, not that Bethesda needed any re-invigoration, it's a, it's a pretty vibrant downtown, but just having them come back to the center of downtown or not, or just go to the center of downtown, I think it's a pretty incredible story.
And then from. I guess when you first were that you said you were like nervous and honored to get it. I think it, so that's, those are pretty weighty [00:04:00] feelings. Um, when you were first coming up and solving those design challenges that you mentioned. How did, like, what was your I'm really curious to see like what your first impression was and then all the feedback, cause you must've gotten so much feedback, not just from the owners of the hotel, but also from Marriott.
And like just finding that equilibrium where everyone is happy, because I'm just hearing the greatest reviews from everyone that's been in the hotel for Marriott and or Marriott. And they're also excited. So like how did you balance that initial? Okay. This is how we're going to. And then getting all of that feedback.
Cause there must've been so much to where now it's just getting, I don't know, just blown up by everyone in like the most positive way.
James Cull: Yeah. I mean, I think that's always the challenge and the, I don't want to use the word fear, cause that seems like a strong word, but there's this a bit of a pre-opening anxiety.
Did we make all the right choices and these projects take years and with the pandemic took even longer for us to get the doors open. And you hope that like the [00:05:00] design still resonates and feels fresh and works for the hotel and for the, for the end user. Um, yeah.
Dan Ryan: And then what were some of the biggest, um, changes from your first go at it to where everything was.
James Cull: No. It's interesting. I think the big design gestures from day one are still there. Um, when you walk in the front door and you mentioned earlier about the hotel kind of being in downtown Bethesda, um, it straddles, it actually goes through the whole block and it straddles Woodmont and Wisconsin. So it feels in a strange way.
The center of the center of Bethesda and they've created, um, Gensler was the architect and they were working on the office tower in the architecture of the hotel. They created this kind of Plaza, alleyway that connects the two avenues. Um, so they, I think in a way are promoting, you know, people gathering here in this, what we call this house of kindness.
Um, and it's interesting to hear everyone in the neighborhood as well, [00:06:00] excited, um, that there's. Then you there. And one thing, um, I think that's really special about the hotel is there's this kind of express elevator that's tucked around the corner, um, that will take you to the penthouse. So there's a rooftop bar there, which is not, not common, or I don't think there even is one in Bethesda and it's kind of cool to go up there, um, and get this, these views of the city.
And you can look back to DC and get a sense of context of where.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, I'm very excited to go up there and I can't wait to, I'm already trying to like plan a happy hour or something up there that, you know, we can all just celebrate and have fun. Um, so one of the other things that I'm really intrigued by is, you know, getting noticed by interior design magazine in 2019 as hip designer of the year.
Um, that's a huge. Um, accolade, right? That's a really big deal. And just to think of. I know, like you didn't just hatch out of an egg and Hey, I'm James Colin. I got [00:07:00] this big award, like as far as your, your path towards that. And then your continued path, who are some of your big, um, mentors and inspirations.
Cause I really think we all stand on the shoulders of those before us. And I just love to hear more about that. And if you can just share it with other, just so other people can hear about who are coming into our industry as well at this exciting.
James Cull: I mean, I, I do have kind of a strange journey. I started out with.
Exactly. First of its kind. Um, no, but you know, I started out in very young. Um, my mother is a mentor for sure of mine and she promoted that I study and dive into anything that really interests me. And I think when you are young and you're trying to discover yourself, it took me down several paths of, um, kind of left brain, right.
Brain thinking. I, I did a lot of art. I ended up going to, um, A second kind of like, I don't know what the term is, but it was like a second school that really focused on the arts. It was an arts and [00:08:00] science academy, um, and studying art. And at the same time, I was taking classes at a local university anatomy and physiology classes.
And so I clearly didn't know if I wanted to be an artist or a doctor, but I think it was activating these synopsis on both sides of my brain. And I think to this day, that's still very much a part of how I think. And so I ended up going to, um, undergraduate school for medicine actually. Um, and I was fascinated by medicine and the body, and I still am, um, have a big interest in it.
And I think two years into my premed, I woke up one day just thinking, you know, as much as I'm interested in, in science and how things work, um, I didn't want to be stuck in a hospital working those shifts. Um, and I think it kind of that that was the crossover to me, thinking a bit about like how things work in terms of how a building is constructed.
So in some way, in my mind, I've, I've kind of created a link between the two. Um, I ended up graduating with a degree in art history. Um, from undergrad and working, I'm moving to New York of course, to work in the galleries, [00:09:00] uh, like in like west Chelsea selling artwork. Um, and I did that for five or six years and, um, one day just thought, you know, I was reading in the news about Pratt Institute was the number one program in the country for interior design.
And I had always had kind of an interest in it. My mother is an interior designer, and so I think it's always been part of the. My subconscious and I thought, Hey, why not? Like maybe do a summer class and see if I really like it. Um, and I did, and I loved it and I ended up enrolling, like I think we finished in August and I started in September and that's really what led me to the.
So my career is, is that degree, obviously an interior design and Pratt was an amazing Institute, has a great reputation. They have, um, amazing art departments, interiors, architecture, a lot of different kind of, um, Types of design that they promote crossover. So it really was like a, an amazing experience for me and quite [00:10:00] abstract.
I mean, most of our,
Dan Ryan: oh, wait, I'm actually, I'm, I'm intrigued. You said they promote crossover and you're just like, what does that actually.
James Cull: I mean, there there's interaction between the departments in, depending on what your course is. Like, I took a course that, um, I forget what they called it. It was like an interdisciplinary course.
So we had industrial designers, architects, interior designers, graphic designers, textile designers, all in the same room. And we collaborated on a project. I think at that time, our project was. Uh, the high speed rail like a train. Um, it was probably in the news. I don't know if Obama was talking about expanding our rail network.
And so it was interesting. We had people designing, all different facets of the train, coming together with these, uh, you know, different experiences, different perspectives and different talents, um, and to see how many different trades and people it takes to put together. These complex things. And I think hotels are in a way, very similar, right?
The amount of tradesmen and expertise you need from [00:11:00] like the mechanical and everything hidden in the ceiling down to, you know, the fabric on the chair.
Dan Ryan: And I think that's a really interesting point because if you really get down to what hotels are, hotels are just buildings. There's nothing special about them.
It's just a building, a core and shell, but then you come in and really. You know, I love that you kept saying this kind of house of kindness and, and that feeling of warmth, like, how do you, like from all of that experience, how did you learn how to take a very sterile austere thing and make it feel warm and kind,
James Cull: I mean, that is always the challenge.
And I think why there often is a different, um, interiors, like designer on a project, like a hotel, um, is because we are so kind of. Well versed in that we do it every day. And I think for us, um, having that warmth means there has to be some authenticity and to have some authenticity, really have to dive back to the roots.
And I think this is where [00:12:00] my art history part of my brain, I guess my brain is quite subdivided, but for me, like researching Bethesda and what it meant historically, what it meant for Maryland. What it was like, how it developed, why it was there. Um, you know, a lot of these towns that are just, just outside of cities like DC, um, you know, our Buckhead in Atlanta they're there, they were actually like a one day's journey in a carriage away from the city.
So it was a pit stop for many people for a very long time. They would stop and rest their head have dinner. There was an in there. So this is, I guess our 21st century. In which is, uh, the new headquarters hotel.
Dan Ryan: I just feel like going back into study.
So like for art history, as you were saying, You getting down and studying the roots and finding those, everyone uses this word authentic or whatever, oftentimes it's overused. But when you can really get down to the core meaning of something, whether it's a town, a history, um, [00:13:00] just the etymology of a word, and then you can get down to that base kernel of the truth of where it's from.
Then I feel like you've tapped into that authenticity and that's the art history. And then you kind of, you build your whole, um, experience. You will build your whole for you, that you build the interiors from that. And I think that that's a really, um, it's just a really cool, it's not like it's a surprise it's but it's like, it's just good to hear.
Digging deeper and getting to that truth is really where the authenticity is.
James Cull: Well, I, I mean the thing there's two parallel tracks, there's the more aesthetic, um, approach to design, um, which almost sometimes there often comes secondary to understanding, like I said, the customer and the brand and what, what are the ethos of the brand?
Because, you know, Marriott has a huge umbrella of brands and they all are attracting slightly different subsets of. Uh, our, our country or the world, and trying to understand who that customer is, why are they coming to this [00:14:00] location so that you can tailor the design and all these aesthetic things to, um, something a bit more specific than just a hotel guest, right.
And that Marriott headquarters hotel, I think. It's attracting a couple subsets of people. There's people staying regionally, people that are coming home to see their family, people that live in the Metro area. They'll probably have what host weddings there, um, and, and cultural events and things for the community.
And just next door, you have the headquarters, the office tower. And so of course, there's going to have, you're going to have people coming for all of these brands to the property. Uh, and one thing that's actually quite interesting about the hotel is that there is a floor in the hotel. That's. Accessible to the guests.
Um, and from an engineering perspective, it's really interesting because we've kind of created these huge cavities in the floor, um, that allows them to build these prototype rooms. So there could be a Ritz-Carlton room or a Marriott room or a Renaissance room on property. And then as those brands.
Release new strategies and kind of configurations are testing things. [00:15:00] They can reconfigure the rooms right on site and give, you know, these, these owners that are coming to tour, uh, just across from the hotel tower, like an experience of this is what the new future of, you know, whatever brand it may be, um, kind of fully realized in a room that that's functioning.
Dan Ryan: That's pretty amazing. So it's like a, almost like a laboratory from your pre-med days, right? You're just a little, I have, I have Newton wing of bat and, uh, but it's right there so they don't have to travel far and then they can see it.
James Cull: Oh, for sure. I mean, it definitely, pings the nerdy part of my brain a little bit to think about that, because that's always the logistical challenges.
all this stuff that the guest doesn't see. How do you. Integrate it in a seamless way, that's effortless so that they don't have to worry about anything and can live in these interiors that I hope at the end of the day, these interiors and these experiences that people come into and in a hotel they're staying for a short period of time.
So you can have a bit of fun that they [00:16:00] leave those, nights at the hotel with like a different understanding or that it changes their perception of space or that it makes them think about. design or a city in a different way that it enriches the experience without smacking you in the face. I don't want it to ever be cliche, but you want to kind of interest people.
Um, and, and there's a romance in that that I think ties back to this idea of hospitality and making people feel comfortable in a space that they're not typically because they're not familiar with. it Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And I think about, um, just from an aesthetic point of view, cause he brought that up many times.
If, when I first entered the industry, I don't know, 20 something years ago and you'd go work on a Marriott project. There was always, it always had, you were kind of bound in by, it's gotta be like, I forget what color it was like hunter green and burgundy has to be somewhere. And then everyone would kind of design for.
Would that palette in mind for whatever reason. And it's amazing just to see over the 20 [00:17:00] years and now with the whole move into downtown Bethesda and this new hotel and just the acquisition of Starwood, how they've really as an outsider, looking in, invested so heavily in all of those different brands.
And it's really segmenting out all those different brands. And it's, I dunno, it's just kind of cool that they're able to do that and differentiate, and I'm just. It's pretty amazing that they've been able to accomplish all of that. Yeah. I think
James Cull: for a while, all of these big brands were developing new brands for so long.
And so it's kind of interesting to see that. Chris and this site with like the O Marriott and kind of go back to their roots, but like reevaluate the roots and what is the future of, of Marriott. And I think there is something to be said about the capital M on the sign out front that it, that it is a, it's a Marriott and you're at Marriott headquarters and it's not one of their lifestyle brands, um, that they've kind of reinvested in, in a way.
And I think that that's why there was so much attention on, on the project. We were getting [00:18:00] attention from people we don't typically get attention from. Um, everyone was so curious about what we were going to do and how we were going to execute it. And we were really lucky. We had, um, you know, th the finishing of the interiors is of a pretty high quality.
Everything looks really great. It feels really great. The proportions of the space are very gracious. Um, inviting a lot of light in, and you can kind of imagine, um, we've created. You know, the house of kindness. So that, that was one of our abstract principles that drove the space planning. And so you come in and there's kind of an entry foyer, and there's a living room and there's like a lounge and there's a private club and a restaurant and typical kind of program.
But, um, all within one space and this hotel, um, kind of like how we live nowadays, people don't live in segmented homes or don't build segmented homes like. They didn't, you know, in the past things are, it's kind of like a loft living. And so you could imagine lounging and working and socializing and eating all in the same kind of lobby space.
Um, which I think is really exciting. [00:19:00] It feels very energized even just in the earliest days. Um, you can see people kind of taking advantage of all the weird nooks and crannies we designed.
Dan Ryan: Totally. And I love that activation and just big open space and, you know, that's a real developed. Just over the past, I don't know, 10 years or so.
10 or 10 or 12 years. Um, when you think about you get your you're working on this sterile osteopathic corn shell, right? And then your, you do your research. You know, your inner art historian is digging down to try and find those kernels. And then you're you find you get down to this idea of house of kindness for this project or for any, whatever it is for any project.
Um, and then you're, you're taking that to build this hotel, like in all of that, learning all of the different varied projects that you've done. How have you learned to define what hospitality is? How do you define hospitality?
James Cull: Oh, my God. That's a loaded question. I mean, I think it [00:20:00] really is anticipating your guests need, I mean, I love to entertain at home.
And so I guess maybe I tie it back to how I would want to feel when I'm welcomed in someone's home. Um, and I liked the hotel to feel like that level of warmth, as you said earlier, You're you feel welcomed in the furniture as welcoming it's comfortable. The seat height is appropriate for the table. Like I said, kind of anticipating how people will work or need to function in the space.
And I think this working remotely has changed the way people experience space. And so we had to create those moments that. Could could swing from like a lounge and having a cocktail with a friend who like someone popping, open the laptop and then kind of working, um, you know, in the guest room design, we, we have this pretty cool feature.
We had a shaft that was quite, um, cumbersome in the room and it was like expressing itself and inside the bathroom and the bedroom area. And we'd no one really liked the way it looked. And so we. Um, curving the walls in there and they're lined with wall Walnut and the Walnut is like a tree [00:21:00] that's indigenous to the region.
Um, and, and so even the furniture and the architecture is really kind of hugging you. And I think that that it's subtle. It's, it's not something I expect to guess to kind of pick up on, but I think that reinforces this idea of like the building itself is kind of anticipating you and hugging you and making you feel comfortable.
Yeah. I, I actually
Dan Ryan: love that curved element in the room because when I went in there, it was super surprising to me cause I'm like, wow, you never see anything like this. Typically in north American projects, you know, you're limited by, you know, whatever walls and soffits there may be, but there's not a lot of just a lot of built-in features where you can like really change the whole.
Feeling of the room and it was, I didn't realize it was because of some other HPAC stuff, but, uh, that curved element really, it just makes the room feel so incredibly different and like warm.
James Cull: The wood finish definitely helps [00:22:00] with that. I think also the distortion of space, because there is no like shadow in the corner because there is no corner, um, makes the room feel larger than it really is too.
And I think when you're sitting there, we have this kind of, um, you know, Kagan S curves sofa with a table. The power in nearby or adjacent, like you can imagine sitting there working or having a glass of wine at the end of the night and feeling like you have full expansive do, and the windows are floor to ceiling and bringing in a lot of light.
I think the room itself feels spacious because of that very subtle gesture.
Dan Ryan: Uh, absolutely. I totally agree. Okay. So now I just want to go back to you. I know you said your mom has a mentor. Um, As you finish up Pratt. Um, and then you're starting to work in interior design. Like, what was your experience there?
Like how did your journey go from Pratt to where you are now at rotate?
James Cull: So I was, um, as every other member of my class doing. [00:23:00] Thesis panel review my final thesis and my third year. Um, and they invite outside jurors in and, um, I had a juror from, um, uh, well, I had several jurors from different firms and one of them left a card at the desk.
Um, they didn't even hand it to me after the review. And so I was talking to, um, to one of the professors and I was notified that there was a card there. So I picked it up and it was a card for yabba, Pusha, Berg. And so someone on my panel had. Apparently liked what I had presented in the third card. And so I gave him a call.
They weren't hiring. Um, but she thought it would be worthwhile. Um, her name is Lizette Delore. I don't know if you know her, but she's at Rockwell now. Um, amazing woman, um, taught me a lot, actually ended up getting me in for an informational interview and I was not meant to meet Georgia Glen that day, but Glen kind of burst into the room.
Um, I was presenting my thesis, which was. Urban [00:24:00] transportation. And he said, you know, we don't, we don't design subway stations here. We design luxury hotels. And I said, I know, and I love your work. And it just kind of was kismet. It was very happenstance in a way, how it all fell together. Um, I was like at the right place at the right time.
And I think so much of success sometimes in design, those moments that you have to kind of seize. And so I started working there and I worked there for about five or six years. Um, and they were definitely big mentors to me and kind of educating me. I, we always joke that it was kind of like a second graduate degree.
Um, and they really promote this kind of studio environment and learning and researching. And I think a lot of my kind of baseline. Thinking or thought process. When I, when I start projects probably originated with some of those ideas that I learned there. Um, and then after working there for some time, I was approached by rotate studio and met with, uh, David Davis here and Lauren rotate, who are my definite big mentors as well, and, and have taught me a lot about business and [00:25:00] design.
Um, and, and that's what led me here really. And now in this role, um, I'm, I'm quite lucky. I get to oversee about a dozen projects and we don't have a house style at roti, um, which can be intimidating, but it's also kind of liberating because we do, you know, I just finished a resort a couple of years ago in the Caribbean for Belmont, which is.
Um, I don't want to say traditional brand cause they're very forward-thinking, especially since they were bought by LVMH, but, um, you know, a little bit more of a transitional style. And at the same time, I'm designing showrooms that are designed with like light and drywall and kind of everything in between.
And so that, that I find very exciting about this role is that I get to kind of dabble in a lot of different styles and periods and aesthetics, and that keeps it all fresh. You know, I think the. Thinking about design is if it, if it's not fresh, it it's a lot of work. So you have to be passionate about each project.
And that keeps me very interested.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And just to hear you just, I mean, just throw off [00:26:00] those mentors of yours, George plan, David Lauren, like those are incredible that you had those, just those four people. I don't know very many people who have had such a incredible. Path to where they are now by having such magnificent mentors.
I mean, that's, that's super amazing. And I agree, you said it's luck and then you kind of backed off that. I really think that like, luck is where hard work and preparation and opportunity kind of intersects. Right. So you've been in the right place at the right time, but based on all the hard work that you've done.
James Cull: Yeah, for sure. In my life experiences, I feel very fortunate and I am, I'm definitely a hard worker and an overachiever by nature. Um, maybe a little OCD when it comes to design and I've, I've worked really hard to get here, but I also have to recognize all of the people that have kind of prepped me for all these different things starting like in my early [00:27:00] childhood and having a mother who really encouraged me to think outside the box and not like, hold me back.
I think that my set that, you know, if you can teach your kids that from a young age, I think they approach the world in a different. Um, and it allowed me to kind of just feel like fearless about design. And I still feel that way now that, um, you know, I really like listen and think a lot about what. The brands and my owners are saying, but I also, I feel like I do push people a little bit to think outside the box.
Cause I, I would like to always kind of continue the conversation or push a conver conversation forward. Yeah. As
Dan Ryan: you're saying, I don't know, most people are probably listening to this, but as you're saying, think outside the box, I'm looking at the painting behind you and it's like this exploded line drawing of a cube or house.
And it's really like, it's funny, like you're saying, think outside the box, this box is like exploded. And creating new opportunity and allowing new opportunity and, and, uh, I don't know. I just love, I love the image that I'm seeing as I'm talking to you and hearing you talk about [00:28:00] that.
James Cull: Um, I didn't plan that.
I think
Dan Ryan: I know you didn't, but you know, you selected it and maybe somewhere in your unconscious it's, you've said think outside the box and you know, right side left side brain, like all of this stuff somehow in your unconscious, that painting wound up on that wall because you're, you're a believer and practitioner and all of this.
James Cull: I mean, my, my, my students. Minimal. And it's kind of like a blank canvas. And I think I like how messy, this kind of feels. And I like a little bit of that. Wabi-sabi, there's like a beauty in, in, in some parts of the things not being perfect. Right. Because that's, that brings in the human. Touch really? Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And then, you know what, you're what you're seeing and, and embracing this idea of things not being perfect. When I think about like where you first started interior design with Yabu pusher bird, like I'm such a huge fan of the projects that they do mostly because the attention to detail is so perfect.
Right. It's just like, From just [00:29:00] reveals to just all the different architectural elements and the lighting, and then even they've been so successful at just designing product that fits in with their whole aesthetic and getting out there. And I don't know very many firms that have been able to do the projects that they've done, but then also have like a really cool Kadra of just designed products as well.
It's it's really, it's cool. And that's a great place to kind of. I guess, earn your chops so to speak.
James Cull: Yeah. Cut or cut your teeth as they say. I definitely agree. And I think I was there at the time when I think there was an evolution in the thought process of like what that studio meant and how it was going to function in the future.
And they hired industrial designers and textile designers and accessory designers and architects, and they have a lighting department and they really decided. To dive into the pool and be like a completely multi-discipline disciplinary firm. [00:30:00] And I think a lot of firms claim to be, but they really do function in that way.
And I think that's really interesting. And I think one thing, I mean, working at rotate that, you know, I said we don't have a house style. We also work in a huge variety of typologies of project types. I mean, I just finished renovating the New York stock exchange last year, which is an interesting project because it's like a historical renovation, but it's also like an office.
Yeah. Um, so I mean, like I'm doing office projects, we do a ton of hospitality. I'm designing a couple of little cigar private cigar clubs that are interesting and restaurants and bars, and we do residential multifamily, residential. We last year, we were very lucky to have, um, the number one and number two, selling residential developments in, in all of New York city.
And one is central park tower, which is like the super modern. Tallest, all residential building in the world, right on central park, south and the other, um, as a more traditional or transitional style with, um, the building architect [00:31:00] is Robert stern and the interiors are a completely different aesthetic.
Um, so just kind of interesting to see that like, regardless of the project brief and the location that you can do, good design and any style, and then any locate.
Dan Ryan: A hundred percent. Um, it's funny as you were talking about, um, it's not funny, it just kinda made me think of this idea of a multidisciplinary firm.
Were you at the, did you go to the platinum circle awards this past year? Um, when Larry Traxler got like that lifetime achievement. Yeah. So I just remember him always talking when he grew up in Chicago or I think he grew up in Ohio, but then he worked at this place called Jordan Mosher, um, with a bunch of other people from our industry as well, where they were doing, like, they were casting metal lamps and, and chandelier is, and they were actually drawing and designing everything.
And then actually like doing the metal work and doing the carpentry and like, they really built everything. And if you look at like him, And a bunch of other people that came from [00:32:00] that place and how they've gone to all of these other places. It's pretty amazing. And then I think about where you are now at roti and the growth that I've just been seeing you guys go through and like the amazing projects you're working on.
Um, how are you attracting talent right now? And how do you, you Lauren and David, like, how do you impart your knowledge and like, um, Really help, inspire and impact the new crews coming in so that they, you help them become the best versions of themselves.
James Cull: Yeah. I mean, we're always looking for talent. Shout out if anyone's looking for a job, said this a resume.
Um, yeah, I mean, I think the thing about us is we are kind of, you know, w we're multidisciplinary too. And I think I, my team, I have, um, kind of, I have an urban designer. I have multiple architects, interiors, people that come from a more residential background, people that are more corporate are our firm's practices.
Multi-disciplinary I mentioned we [00:33:00] do residential commercial hospitality. We would do cruise ships. Um, and for years there has been discussions about, you know, making a hotel feel more residential. And then after that it was like a resident commercial design cause people wanted the. You know, offices to feel more like home and, or have like a hospitality on it.
A lot of our big offices don't have a bar in them. And so I think it's really kind of interesting to see all these different facets of the design start to intersect and overlap. And I think it was accelerated by this pandemic because I think everyone started to work in a very traditional way. It'll be interesting when the pendulum starts to swing back, like see where we end up.
But I think there's just a lot of flexibility and openness, and there's not as strong boundaries between different disciplines. Like. Of design or within like, Design as a whole, that like maybe to do the best design, you need experts in all different types of design coming together. Um, so that an interiors person isn't just doing interiors and the landscapes, not just doing landscape [00:34:00] or a textile designer is not like designing an isolation.
I think in a way, the interior. Often, especially in the hospitality world gets kind of roped into being that ringleader. Um, we're the ones bringing a lot of these different ideas together and kind of driving this narrative always and presenting to. To the brands. And so I think it's, it's exciting. I mean, I love that, um, weaving together all these disparate elements, so that it's one kind of story from the second, you, your footsteps and hits the pavement at the front door and the political share, like up to your room that there's that narrative thread throughout the whole experience.
Dan Ryan: I love it. And then I, and then really you're, you are a textile designer because you're weaving all these great people together. I liked that that was good. Leaving all these people together and bring all these different, um, disciplines together. So that, like, if I was a young, you coming out of Pratt and working for you or not working for you, if I was a young, you and I was looking at what, what, what else out there after I have my degree, [00:35:00] there are places where.
You know, you're going to get trapped. You're going to get, um, I dunno, pigeon-holed into doing a thing, right. Whereas if I'm hearing you correctly, what's really cool is you have so many different experts in so many different areas that, okay, I'm not going to do that. One thing. I'm going to be able to, to experience so many more things and just really kind of develop my palette and creative ability.
James Cull: And I mean, this is a hospitality podcast. I really do have to give credit to hospitality because I think of all the different areas of design I've worked in, hospitality brings together. Like residential, there's a room, people sleeping. It has somewhere they have to eat somewhere. So there's restaurant design.
They go to the spa, there's a gym, there's ballrooms. I mean, all the different programmatic components of a hotel, I think has allowed me to kind of see beyond the confines of one particular subset of design and kind of find that [00:36:00] way. We talk about it being kind of like an orchestra or a symphony or whatever.
You have to get all of these different instruments to sound great and work great together and have that experience be completely seamless. Um, a great challenge, but it's also, I think is the most fascinating thing. And it's prevented me maybe from becoming pigeonholed into being like a designer that specializes in one particular thing, like a spa or residential, or, you know what I mean?
Dan Ryan: I totally know what you mean. And it actually, it may be go back to what you were saying before about working on that Belmont hotel. Um, because it is a distinct brand and the fact that LVMH. The king or queen of all brands and have like the best brands under their umbrella. If I think about hospitality and kind of where you lit up right there, as we were talking about hospitality and paying homage to hospitality, it's really the ultimate immersive experience, especially if you're a brand.
So if you're, if you are. LVMH. And you have all these different brands, like why not have a hotel for each of them, [00:37:00] because you can really control what the guests are seeing, smelling, seeing, breathing, hearing, and they're actually sleeping in it. It's like, it's, it's unbelievable. I'm, I'm actually surprised that there haven't been more.
Brands that have developed their own hotels. What's your thoughts on that?
James Cull: I mean, there are a couple people, um, I think the danger is becoming a cliche of yourself and I think you can't have a room kind of monogrammed at a particular brand. I think there's a lot of power and fashion. I think there's definitely a lot of, there's a huge audience for fashion.
Right. And you can see with all these different brands, they have their own kind of identity and personality. And I think it definitely translates into. Opportunities for hospitality. I'm not sure I want to sleep in a completely branded room. I think that there's something someone does. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's just a danger in becoming too, too focused, but LVMH has an amazing [00:38:00] roster of brands and I think Belmont itself, I mean the roots of that.
It was called. I think they originally the orange express hotel group. They own the original orient express train, um, which is even more crazy. When you think about a hotel, a train on, or a hotel on, on a train track and moving, uh, how does that operate? Um, but they have this crazy legacy and its history and the property that we'd developed, um, was a resort.
And you talked about like immersive experiences and I think a resort is, is totally immersive, um, because you know, an urban hotel use. Front or there might be a sidewalk or a cafe or something. Um, but it kind of stops at the curb, but a resort really is, is everything. And the guests, especially in a tropical environment are indoor outdoor the entire time.
So are. Or kind of little box that we're maybe boxed into interiors is definitely exploded in a resort environment because you're designing right out to the, to the waterline, you know, at the beach. Totally.
Dan Ryan: And I'm actually, I'm smiling right now because I'm envisioning, I did know that a bell mines or origins was the orient [00:39:00] express train.
And that is like the ultimate luxury immersive moving experience. But when you were, when you were putting on your art history hat and I'm like digging deep into Belmont, did you dust. Your, uh, your thesis on transportation.
James Cull: I mean, it definitely made me think about it. And I think there's the art history is a story and in me is like fascinated by kind of history.
And so I love the nostalgia of train travel, I think is just like really beautiful and magical. And, um, I was so very excited to work with this brand. And I think if you look at their, their collection of products, Um, and I think this is why LVMH acquired them is like each one is kind of its own brand and it has its own identity.
There's a Belmont philosophy in terms of the way that they approach the customer and all of that. But it's kind of invisible really. And you get to these different properties and each one has such a distinct personality. It feels like a person. Yeah. Project for someone that someone built this hotel and it's very distinct and [00:40:00] different from all every other Belmont property.
And, you know, they have the orient express train, they have a glass sort of train that goes to the rooftop and Peru. They have the original Cipriani's in Venice. When you start to like review the list of their, their properties. It's, it's really insane. I love
Dan Ryan: how you say it's really invisible because I, unlike you, like,
James Cull: I.
Dan Ryan: I consider you an expert in designing for hospitality. Oftentimes I find it best when it's invisible and I really just tap right into that feeling. Um, and I think the job that you have and with all the teams that you're developing and inspiring and impacting, it's like, how do you through your review process, help your teams and the people who are coming up under you as, as a mentor.
Tap into that invisibility of it. So that really, um, the people who are going to be walking through these spaces can just feel it.
James Cull: I mean, I love mentorship and I love fostering a studio [00:41:00] environment here and talking to things and debating things. And I often encourage my designers to challenge me and we kind of hash things out, um, together to figure out the best solution for things.
Um, I'm very much a big promoter of sending them to, to experience things. And we do hotel tours and we visit different properties. We travel our art shows or exhibitions at museums, and we pull all of our kind of experience and our influences from a wide range of things. It's not like just a hotel tour, could influence the design or approach to a hotel.
Um,
Dan Ryan: and now, as you said, the museum. I really need a trip to the met. It's been too long since moving out of the city because I just walk into that. For a half day, a couple hours or a full day. And I'm just so inspired by not just all the different aesthetics and medium, but also just the different time periods.
So thank you for that. I'm making that on my to-do list. I got to go back to the mat. So [00:42:00] thank
James Cull: you. We need to get back to, I mean, I think the past two years have been challenging, but I think seeing the, the city kind of come alive again in the last month or two makes me want to get back out there. Yeah, because of the museum tour travel, all those things that we haven't done in so long.
Dan Ryan: Yes. All of the above D all of the above. Um, so as you think about as, as you're just like digging into the future there envisioning it, like, what's, what's exciting. You most about the future.
James Cull: I think it is a bit of the breakdown in like the formality of things that you could work from anywhere. If you had asked me before all of this, if I could work from home, I think I'm so hands-on.
Um, and I still sketch every day and print print out drawings and red line, not on a computer, um, that I, I never thought that I could actually work anywhere outside of my studio, but. I travel quite a bit now. And living through the last two years has taught me. I can just work almost anywhere. This obviously days you need to be in the studio and reviewing things together at a table, a different kind of [00:43:00] connection or synapses are activated when you're in person.
But I realized I could do quite a bit, um, you know, from anywhere in the world and, and that's kind of liberating. And I think when it comes to design and how we think about things, um, I think that that's going to influence how people. Um, design the spaces and having spaces that people could work. Um, giving people that flexibility to go visit their family, or take a trip, but still work their nine to five during the day.
And how do we accommodate that in the room? So it's not like the traditional desk facing a wall. So we think about that quite a bit and creating a really good. Rich war, um, experience for people that it's flexible for whatever you're doing there. And you just surprised
Dan Ryan: me because I, not that I thought anything one way or the other, but I, I just loved hearing that you're so analog and that you review with printed paper and pen.
Because when I write, I find my best writing is when I'm using a pen and paper, there's something about that tactile experience that I [00:44:00] just, I love. And it, and the pen to the paper to me inspires me in so many other ways.
James Cull: Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm a very big firm believer in printing it out because it, it, your hand is like, you know, connected to your body.
And it, it, I don't know, there's something that comes out of it that, that ink that's different than a keyboard or mouse. And, um, I think, you know, in a computer, things are digitized in a way that you draw straight lines perfectly and you, your curve is perfect. And I think drawing by hand, like liberates you from all that, and there's a lot more freedom, um, and you can produce.
More stuff more quickly, more ideas, more quickly when you're, when you're sketching it out. So I, I encourage all of my designers to sketch and we, I sketch on cocktail napkins on flights in an airport. Lounge is often, um, and take pictures and send them around. And I find it's just a really great, easy way to communicate.
Um, really quick for me.
Dan Ryan: Like when I'm talking to people, I'm doing these maps and there's something about, um, the gesture. So it's imperfect, it's a big mass, but like when I'm looking [00:45:00] at it, it's almost tapping into the memory and going back to the beginning of our conversation where you said, you know, you're both left brain and right brain.
I remember, like I got super into, I, I had, my mom was, is an artist. So, you know, I was always surrounded by and experiencing art, but I always felt, oh, I couldn't do it. Well, I think I was in sixth grade. I had a teacher, Ms. Stanky. She got this book called drawing from the right side of the brain, which I see everywhere.
And it's really turning an image upside down and drawing it so that you're disassociated from what the actual form is that you're drawing. And you're really just looking at shapes. It helped me become an artist. And I loved that. And to think about the pen on the paper, um, And the gestures and the emotion and just the feeling that you actually get.
I feel like it's lost. So how are you keeping it aside from like encouraging your, um, your teams to sketch as much as possible? Do you see a lot of pushback with the younger kids and have any really taken to sketching and. [00:46:00]
James Cull: I mean, I, I think I grew up in between generations of this technological. I don't know, change in the world.
Like I grew up typing my original term papers on typewriters, and then I remember a phase when we got a computer. And so I definitely have, I guess, more tools at my disposal. These young kids that are, are amazing on the computer. I mean, really the stuff they can produce is mind-blowing, but they, they grew up with that technology probably they don't remember a time before it.
Right. Um, but I think it's just fostering that studio environment. Like, you know, I wish I could show you our space right now. Maybe I can send you some photos, but it's very open. Um, we have a couple of Nisha's that have pinup walls and when we review, I make the team bring all the finishes. Touch the finish while we're talking about the finish and talk through the detailing and how we're going to make it, how are we going to detail it?
Um, we print out things to full-scale on our plotter. So when we're studying, uh, uh, vanity for a hotel guestroom, we printed out full scale. We tack it up on the wall. We [00:47:00] make sure that the height is appropriate. Where's it going to hit on your hip? You know, all these things that I think are really important that are hard to see in a computer because.
You know, you're limited to the computer screen, right? And so you can produce these amazing photo realistic renderings that look more realistic than a photograph. Um, but you don't have that level of detail. And that nuance that at the end of the day, that's what, uh, the guests are touching and feeling and remembering because it's what their.
Nice physically coming in contact with. And I think that to me is the ultimate luxury. When you think to that level of detail, you know, we, we programmed the space, we designed the space, so it does everything it needs to do, but that attention to detail that shows someone took the time to like consider that level of detail is a luxury in today's world.
Awesome.
Dan Ryan: Um, when you think back to James call working in a. Gallery in west Chelsea. So let's just say, you're walking up to yourself [00:48:00] now. You're walking up to your younger self in a, in a gallery in west Chelsea. What advice do you give yourself?
James Cull: I mean, I think at that Mo it's hard. Cause I think my instinct is to tell me not to, to, to think beyond my. My life at that moment, but I think I had already started to feel that way and that I think that that's what subconsciously led me to like signing up for that summer course at one moment was just embracing that, that part of me that I think in somehow I suppressed, I mean, I grew up in a small town in the Midwest and, um, you know, I said my mom was a designer and I think that that profession, maybe wasn't like.
Respected as I think the respect that it deserves, because I think some people have this notion that we just like pick out pillows and furniture, but design is so much more than that. And because it's so thought through and carefully considered in, like you say, invisible people don't [00:49:00] realize the amount of effort that goes into every single decision.
And we're making a, you know, in a hotel, we make a million decisions that have to be documented and executed. Um, I think because of that, I, I. I don't want to say avoided it, but I just never really saw it as a realistic profession for me. And I think maybe the advice I'd give myself is just trust your instincts and listen to that inner voice.
Cause I think I always knew I was into design. I remember, you know, renovating our, my bedroom with my mom and her letting me pick out every finish and furniture and how intrigued I was by it at the time. But I guess I never really thought of it as a profession. I just thought of it as like. My bedroom, you know, because I was well
Dan Ryan: and also going with that left and right brain kind of mentality.
It's a, yeah, it's a profession, but it's also a passion and you've been able to pursue.
James Cull: Yeah, definitely. And I think that's the advice I give anyone that comes to me, you know, I mentor, um, you know, I do guest juries at Pratt and I'm part of this [00:50:00] B of originals, um, nonprofit that has like a mentorship program.
So I receive, you know, students here and people asking me like, you know, why would I want to go into design or do I want to go into design? Or, you know, what's it like, and I L my advice is always the same. I'm like, you have to. People don't succeed in design unless you love it because the hours can be long.
And the amount of detail I said is, is excruciating at times. But if you love it, it doesn't feel painful. It feels exciting. And it feels like you're creating something. And I think there's a beauty in kind of willing something into existence. That's physical, that's there that people experience and it kind of lives on and has its own life.
And to me, that's what motivates me.
Dan Ryan: Awesome. And then I want, I want you to go back to being that, uh, text. I want you to have a piece of thread in your hand right now. And just from like again, to have mentors and inspirations of, uh, David, Lauren, George, and Glenn, like if you were to take that piece of thread and, uh, thread it through all four of those [00:51:00] names, like what's a common theme for how they helped you become the person that you are.
James Cull: I think all of them approached design with like a seriousness. And I think that goes back to this idea of having like a lot of passion with this seriousness that I really just respect. I mean, they're all, they've all had very successful careers, obviously. They're all at the top of their game and in. I think that's inspiring to see, you know, it takes a lot of work to get these projects built and in budget and, you know, half the time I'm arguing with a contractor and a hard hat on, on a job site, and it's not always the easiest, uh, arguments or battles to be won, but I think it takes a lot of perseverance and determination.
And I think I also admire, you know, that they all have gone out on their own and created firms with their name on the door that are successful in their. There's a lot to be said about that. Cause this is a tough industry and [00:52:00] I wrote,
Dan Ryan: yeah, it's interesting. I think of the four, I know David the best and there's like this warmth about him that I just really adore.
Right. And I would think, you know, you hear about all these visionaries within our industry or just design and design, forget hospitality, but all designed and there's this. Element of uncompromising vision, which could also lean towards being tyrannical. Right. But when I, although I know David, the most, I've never heard any of that amongst David Lauren, George, or Glen, in the sense that like, whenever I hear stories about them, they're always sad with this idea of, and feeling of warmth as well, which I think is unusual because they, they do have uncompromising vision in what they've built in achieved, but there's also like this.
Uh, chatter and feeling of warmth. Whenever you speak to anyone about who has worked with them, or who has, um, experienced them or [00:53:00] has, has had them as a consultant on a project. And I just find that I'm just very, um, interested in that it's very, um, unusual.
James Cull: I think, I mean, I'm definitely a people person and I'm attracted to.
I guess maybe like-minded people or people I admire. Um, and they're all lovely. And I think that's why I've worked for, I mean, at both firms now, I think five or six years each, um, and have stayed and really feel invested in these. Brands or firms or whatever you want to call them. And it, it comes back to the people, the culture in the office, the we foster and the different type of talent we bring on.
And I think that there's a work hard, play hard kind of mentality in. I think that that's really important that office culture, and maybe even more so now after so many people working at home for so long, I was dying to get back into the studio and see people again. And I think in the hospitality world, so much of what we talk about is interacting with [00:54:00] people.
Um, and so maybe that's why, you know, both of these firms do so much. Hospitality is cause they're the mindset of the firm is, is perfectly programmed for that type of attack.
Dan Ryan: Totally. Totally. I agree. And also just a very, um, clear vision and amazing track record as well. Um, so James, as we kind of wind up, how can people connect?
James Cull: I mean typical channels I'm on Instagram, although I don't post very much anymore. Um, I'm on there and, um, LinkedIn for sure. And then, you know, through our company website, of course, if someone wants to send a portfolio through, um, we're lost for
Dan Ryan: people. Yeah. And we'll put it in there and I love your Instagram handle combination, right?
James Cull: No, I feel like it was an early adopter of Instagram and I still love it, but. I guess I just like going on there to see what other people are doing. I don't really share as much my personal life anymore. Well, I was just referring [00:55:00] to
Dan Ryan: your handle. I it's, it's just great.
I love it.
James Cull: Yeah. The last name lends itself to a couple of different plays on word. I think culture is another one people have used in the past. So
Dan Ryan: that's really, what's drawn you to where you are and on your journey to, is that attraction to culture?
James Cull: Well, and I think my last name too, I think symbolically, I think the word call is to, to like what you'd call like a herd of sheep.
Right. And take up to find the best of the best. So yeah, it was a good name that was given. I love it the
Dan Ryan: best of the best. Well, Hey James, I just want to say thank you so much for your time. I know how busy you are and just all the great projects that you're working on. Uh, but thank you for sharing your experience, not just with me, but with everyone else out there that wants to follow.
James Cull: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure talking to great conversation. Oh, thank
Dan Ryan: you. And also most importantly, I want to thank our listeners. Uh, I really hope that this talk has evolved your thinking on hospitality, especially in [00:56:00] the built environment, and also helped you take a step towards following your passion.
So if it did, please share this podcast with a friend and thank you everyone. We will see you next time.