Defining Hospitality

[00:00:00]
Dan Ryan: Today's guest is certified by the interior designers of Canada. He loves to learn and meet new people. He's a creative soul. He is the founder of decay anthropy and equity design consultancy. He's the president at interior designers of Canada, better known to most people as IDC, ladies and gentlemen, Mr.
Ian Rolston, welcoming.
Ian Rolston: Thank you, Dan. Really great to be here. I'm
Dan Ryan: so glad to have you here. And I've said this a couple of times on, um, previous, uh, more recent previous podcasts, but I'm getting a lot [00:01:00] of these guests like you right now that have come as referrals to previous guests, like beyond. So you found your way to me from Deanna.
And she said, oh, you got to talk to Ian. So we talk to each other. Yeah, we hit it off. And then we find out that we have like, uh, a similar path, not in the sense that I'm a designer or running a large international organization. But, um, we, well, you started at Yahoo , but then spent a lot of time at Hirsch Bedner, which is where I got my start as an intern in college.
And. I think what's amazing is I just was speaking with someone else who started at, um, and then if you look at the yobbos, the Hirsch nurse, Wilson's the, you know, there's a handful of those really strong, uh, hospitality design firms that have launched the careers and inspired and impacted so many people.
And just from the small sample that I just mentioned right now. [00:02:00] Right. It's just so awesome to think that whenever I've spoken to any of those principals of those firms, it's, there's never, I guess they're a little sad to see these great people leave, but there's also this, um, I wish you well, and all of the success, and I think it's really a Testament to our industry, those firms in particular.
Um, but also just leaving an impact and make leaving the world a better place than when you were handed it. If that makes
Ian Rolston: sense. Yeah. No, that, that makes total sense. I think it's one of the things that. Most admire about the hospitality industry is that there is a certain degree of hospitality that is assigned to how we are engaging and treating and actually supporting and preparing, uh, people to, to do, to move on and go and do some greater things in the industry.
Dan Ryan: I totally agree. And then, um, I wonder if you could, just because [00:03:00] most are, we have listeners from all over the place, but most of our listeners are from the United States. As of now that we, you know, we've had a bunch more international guests and a lot of listeners as well. Tell us a little bit about IDC, what the mission is and then what your specific, um, what you're championing as the president there now, um, in your strategy.
Ian Rolston: Okay, great. So IDC, uh, really is the national body for advocating. Uh, for the profession of interior design in Canada. So we work closely with our provincial bodies to ensure that we are communicating that the value of the industry, uh, to our wider communities that we're serving. Um, and so we're really focused on, of course, on supporting our members.
Making sure that they have access to information, tools and services that help them to do what they do best. Uh, but we also want to ensure that we are sharing why interior design is so [00:04:00] unique and so impactful and vital to wider society. As we represent a group of problem solvers and storytellers that really enriched the lives of all of those who we're interacting and engaging with.
So that's, that's really the focus that we're looking to stay really focused on this year, uh, to engage our members and, uh, again, the wider community industries that we're serving.
Dan Ryan: I love the advocacy for such an important profession and vocation of interior design, because, you know, oftentimes the architects get all the glory in the, in the built environment.
Right. And, and rightfully so in many cases. But if you really think. Us small humans going through these massive edifices, it's really the interiors that really lend themselves and enhance whatever life experiences happening within their wouldn't. You agree?
Ian Rolston: I absolutely agree. Um, I love [00:05:00] my architectural cousins, uh, but there's just something about interior design that I think really speaks to the heart body, mind and soul of, of end-users, uh, that provides this real sort of connective tissue to both the community of users and how they're interacting with space.
And, you know, there is a, a very sort of distinct way that you approach interior that is very different from the discipline of architecture. Um, and so I love when, uh, these two industries are able to come together and collaborate because it really makes for from meaningful spaces
Dan Ryan: and you've become the president of this.
Organization just about two years ago. So either, I don't know the math just yet, but it was, the pandemic had just happened or was about to happen. I think we were in the midst of it when you became correct. Right.
Ian Rolston: Well, I was appointed to the board two years ago and became president, uh, last year in November.
Okay.
Dan Ryan: So [00:06:00] with the assumption of, or let's just say with you, let's say with the coronation of a new executive or chief executive or precedent right. Of any organization, um, okay. There's all the, we all stand on the shoulders of those before I said, so you're obviously you're doing all of your advocacy and your, and all of the work that had been laid out before you, but with every new executive coming in, there are new passions and new focuses and new strategies that you, or they would bring along, like talk to us about.
What you're passionate about and how you're evolving, um, IDC. Right.
Ian Rolston: So look there, I wouldn't have the opportunity to be a part of this organization without the original founders and the countless other volunteers and presidents and staff members that have served in such a wonderful capacity. So I am most definitely appreciative to the [00:07:00] work that has been sort of laid, um, and the standard that has been raised.
Um, and so from my perspective, coming into the organization, it's really important that we continue to be a connector. Um, and so for me, that sort of really, uh, nets out in three, three specific ways. Uh, the first is making sure that we're showing our work and making ourselves visible, uh, as an organization, sometimes we know that associations can become a little sleepy or a little.
Uh, in terms of, we're just sort of serving our members that we're doing what we're doing, but it's important for us as an organization, because I believe interior design is so vital to human life, um, that we have to be more open to, again, the communities that we're serving so that they can see what is really at the heart of our, our industry, uh, and really see the work that our practitioners do that are helping to support, uh, their everyday lives.
Um, so [00:08:00] that's the first step. The second step is really making sure that we're understanding our pipeline. Uh, and I really want to focus on our emerging leaders, um, those that are coming to the profession, uh, to ensure that they understand that they are going to be in positions and roles to innovate what interior design means for the future.
And so we want to really Mel this idea of, uh, experience and. And make sure that we are creating a greater opportunities for growth, uh, in the industry, especially from a diversity standpoint. Um, and then lastly, I call our last pillar, it's the, uh, the problem to solve, you know, there are so many great human beings that are involved in this industry and I am more and more referring to designers as problem solvers.
And so we need to get out there in our communities, uh, and align with [00:09:00] other great organizations, community groups, and associations, and let's solve some of the issues that we're facing, uh, in our communities. Uh, in particular in Canada, we have a housing crisis, of course, in, in many of our cities that I believe designers can lend their experience, their expertise, their skill in our community to help solving some of these issues.
So there are myriad of social issues that we can become involved with. With the work that we're focused on this year, we're trying to really engage with a community to solve problems. We just had an opportunity to work with a group of future women leaders, uh, with one of our matriarchs here in Canada, uh, for diversity and inclusion.
And it was amazing to work with these, these young women who, you know, will be running things in the future. And we got to share with them design thinking and how our [00:10:00] processes of interior design as interior designers actually helped to, to, to solve, uh, issues. So we gave them the principles and they created wonderful solutions for the problems that we gave them the assault.
So that that's the
Dan Ryan: folk you make it sound so simple. Three pillars. Okay. Now you can retire. It's all done well done.
Ian Rolston: And I get to have more conversations with people like you.
Dan Ryan: I want to, I'd love, I'd love that you have the three pillars, first of all, because I think sometimes we can have so many initiatives that we get blind to really what we're trying to achieve.
Um, if you think about, or not even thinking about it, I've already thought about it. So share with us as far as how you're showing your work and how you're making it more visible and serving the member, serving your members and showing the work that you're doing to the community at large. Right?
Ian Rolston: So one, um, let's call it a [00:11:00] project that we're engaged with now is making sure that people understand who was involved in the work.
Um, and so that means of course definitely sharing our staff, but we also want to make those that are on our committee members more than. And share stories about who they are, the work that they're doing, but also to share their difference, difference in practice, difference in ethnicity and approaches to work so that our wider community of practice and the communities that we're serving understand that there, there is representation within the organization.
And so that sort of goes back to my previous point a little bit where I said that sometimes I think associations can become a little insular. We want to make sure that we're being open, uh, to our communities and being more hospitable, uh, really in the sense of saying this is who we are, uh, and there's a place for you.
Dan Ryan: And storytelling is so important because it, I think it's, it [00:12:00] creates this vibration that we can all attach onto. We visualize it, we, it to really connect and hear a story. We have to have empathy towards the storyteller and we were basically, it's like a free ride. Right? We get to, we get to ride that wave.
Tell, tell us about like a great example. I'm sure you have so many, but if you could pick an example of an incredible story of diversity that you've gotten out out there and, and how it's impacted those, who've heard who've, who've been open to hearing it right.
Ian Rolston: Well, I'll share one with you with just this week.
Uh, we, we did a great talk with a group of designers, uh, with the Cantor P uh, the company that I founded and the methodologies that I've established, uh, to help move conversation around, uh, diversity and to shift thinking. Uh, in the diversity space is to how diversity is really a fantastic business approach, uh, for [00:13:00] companies and organizations.
And so we had, uh, approximately maybe 109 individuals that we were speaking to. Um, and it's funny when you're in a room with people, uh, that are sort of tensely sitting on the edge of their seats, wondering, okay, what is this guy in it? Talk to us about? Um, I had a wonderful, uh, co-panelists, uh, who's an amazing thinker.
He has been for doll. Um, she was with me and so we had an opportunity to unpack approaches to diversity, uh, and really share from our experiences, how we think really does impact how we are engaging with each other. And that there is one snippet of, uh, knowledge that I'm going to share is that we. We think differently from culture to culture, like literally our brains are formed differently.
So we see the world differently. And [00:14:00] that offers an amazing opportunity when you bring all of this perspective together in one room. And so the, the great sort of outcomes in this conversation was that a lot of people, they were spaced saw things much broader and clear than they did before coming in, because we focused on approaching this work with one sense of humanity and it changes the conversation completely.
Dan Ryan: And if you could generalize about one of those hundred nine people sitting in that audience who may have been skeptical or unsure about diversity, Making a stronger, which I firmly believe it does because it's the human experience that makes us stronger. Like what was some feedback that you got from that generally?
Um, I mean, obviously they weren't so close by minded cause they were there, but if like, how could, how did you change other people's thinking, [00:15:00] um, as an outcome of that,
Ian Rolston: right. I believe it is that you have to insert yourself into the story. Um, but the cancer pay, we do some exercises, uh, with the leaders that we speak to that actually place themselves and their own experiences in the context of different, in the context of, um, what could be referred to as otherness so that they could see the world.
Uh, in a different way that they're not accustomed to. And oftentimes it's that connection that you sort of see, you can see it on people's faces where the light just goes on and it's like, oh, I get it. Because when I experienced that, and I know what that feels like to be, uh, overlooked, um, treated poorly, um, I can now understand the perspective in which you're sharing, [00:16:00] uh, with us.
Um, and so it allows for the conversation to flow, I think much more meaningfully and productively and the outcome inevitably is always the sort of sense of, of inspiration. And that's the expression that we hear a lot. Um, when we are working with groups is that they feel inspired. Uh, and oftentimes unburdened because it's like, oh my gosh.
Okay. So I'm not a horrible person, or I didn't do something wrong. It's just, I didn't understand. And it's the, it's that key sort of shift in thinking that once understanding is established, it's a great foundation to move forward.
Dan Ryan: I think we can all benefit tremendously from that. So if you were to an example of a story of having someone feel overlooked and then on one side, and then on the other side, the person who maybe has never overlooked, like how, like, what was the story?
[00:17:00] And then how did that impact the person who never thought of being over. Right. Well,
Ian Rolston: I'll give you a generalization because most of these conversations are happening in confidential settings, correct?
Dan Ryan: Generally. Yeah, a hundred percent. Please be general. Don't don't throw Sally under the bus.
Ian Rolston: I will die, but
Dan Ryan: I'm just kidding it.
Wasn't Sally, I just made up the name. If it was Sally. I apologize. It
Ian Rolston: wasn't Sally, but we'll, we'll use Sally for example, um, Sally had described, uh, being overlooked in a room of individuals that were, uh, uh, let's say, uh, homogeneous, uh, and in that setting, although Sally had an understanding of, of her skill and her talent and what she brought to the conversation she was being consistently passed over in the.
Um, and being [00:18:00] able to connect that experience, uh, that was really, uh, in, in that moment, as it was described sort of disruptive and hurtful, uh, to Sally connecting that to, uh, the live, the stories that I share within the group about different people, groups, how being overlooked is a universal human experience and feeling.
And so once you connect with that and understand how that impacted you, it's much easier to see how that impacts others.
Dan Ryan: So to use Sally more so for being overlooked, um, I'm sure we're all overlooked in some way, shape or form at some point, right. Everyone. Um, and then I could see how let's, so let's just say solid.
Who's overlooked. And maybe she's aware of it in many cases, some cases [00:19:00] or many, and maybe she's unaware of it and many or some other cases. Um, I think the real challenge of being overlooked is also when you recognize that you are overlooked, how can these types of conversations, help with the courage to say, Hey, you missed me here.
Um, I'd like extra consideration. How do you, so first of all, there's a vulnerability that that person needs to do, which is scary. Right? And then it's having the confidence to be like, Hey, Sally here, uh, consider me consider this. Yeah.
Ian Rolston: But then I have a theory that, uh, we are all still our four year old selves as we grow up, we just learned how to mask all of those things more and more.
So our insecurity. Uh, or, you know, wanting to share our hopes and dreams are all those things [00:20:00] that really connect us as human beings, all those experiences. And so more often than not whether you're the CEO or the project manager, when you're in a room of people, the common thread is, is that everyone has the same issues that you do.
Everyone's just trying to hide them all at the same time. So it usually takes an individual that has the ability and the courage, as you say, to exercise the power to say, Hey, look, I mean human being, I don't have it all together. I don't have all the answers, but this is what I do have. What do you have?
And if you can sort of position the conversation that way, it's almost like letting a breath of fresh air, just sort of fill there. Yeah. And
Dan Ryan: then, okay. So making ourselves vulnerable as. Difficult. And I feel like it's not like it's a muscle, right. That we have to keep flexing and working [00:21:00] out. Um, but oftentimes I think what, obviously what's preventing that courage of saying, Hey, consider me, or don't overlook me.
There's a certain, um, there's a courage that's needed to do that, to take that step. And then, so with this group of 109 people, or just groups in general, what are great ways that you've seen in a group dynamic to let everyone know that it's okay to be vulnerable and please be courageous and take the step forward.
And I have my own ideas, but I'd love to hear from yours.
Ian Rolston: So ours is really simple. We simply say it at every session. We say, look, there are. There is a standard that we have for this, this meeting that we're, we're, we're going to be in this conversation. We're going to be engaged in versus honesty, trust and integrity.
And so these and transparency, these are the only ways that we can [00:22:00] actually have a meaningful conversation. And so we allow people an opportunity to sort of naturally become comfortable through at least finding a way, uh, in the conversation where they feel that they can contribute. We, we don't beat anyone over the head with what they have to do or what they have to say.
That's one, the second thing that we say is forget about everything that you've heard. I know that we live in a world that is increasingly polarized. This isn't the point of this conversation. There is no side to be taken. We are a group of human beings that have a perspective that we're doing. And I also say that I care about you.
And my only expectation is that you care about me and that inevitably just takes all of that anxiety, all of that fear out of the room, because now we know that we're having the human conversation.
Dan Ryan: It's really like, and then if you, if you look at all that, okay, so some, [00:23:00] I hear you say all that, but there's still times where I'm like, and I see others and I know others.
Cause I talked to a lot of people where there's just that fear, right. You're being held down by this fear. And then there's this bubble of like just some kind of a bubble that's kind of repelling you from entering that kind of safe place. Right. But it's really as much as we say, Hey, trust and respect and be vulnerable and be courageous.
Sometimes it's still really difficult for people, but I, you know, hearing you say honesty, trust, integrity, and transparency. What I think I heard you say is the ultimate outcome of all of that is that everyone should feel. Right, which is then a great transition to like the real point of this podcast, which is like, given all that and your experience, designing the built environment in hospitality, and now all the initiatives you're doing now, like how do you define hospitality?
Ian Rolston: Oh, I, I believe hospitality is a great opportunity to serve humanity, [00:24:00] without question. we know this because we've seen hospitality is hospitality. It is present in every culture and every people group on the planet. there are, traditions, norms, expectations, all associated with this idea of expressing care for someone who you want to, entertain.
Someone you want to, nourish, these things are universal. so it's, this, understanding of, service and serving humanity, that I think really inspired, me when I began to understand really what was at the heart of hospitality, or at least the potential of, hospitality, not just as a business, but also as a connector.
Um, and so we've seen the evolution from, uh, you know, hotels are no longer a place where you, you know, get a good night [00:25:00] rest or, or have a good meal, but they really do represent, uh, an ability to connect across the spectrum of human difference and offer experiences. And, and I know we've moved from the experience phase into the transformation phase of hospitality.
Um, and I think, I think as, as our industry continues to move forward, that these connections are going to become really the foundational, um, sort of distinction in those experiences and in those transformations, uh, for, for brands all across the board.
Dan Ryan: I completely agree with you. And I think that's a great segue into your second pillar, which I haven't forgotten about.
Cause we went over the first one, which is just showing people like what you're doing and how you're impacting, but the second one was just your pipeline and inspiring connecting, um, introducing people to this fabulous industry and really like [00:26:00] showing them. The humanity that comes through the design and the work.
So how are you because everyone's having pipeline challenges from a talent perspective right now, or at least in the, in the United States, I'm sure it's the same up in Canada, but like how, how are you understanding your pipeline better and connecting with the better?
Right.
Ian Rolston: So we're asking questions of our emerging professionals, our students, um, you know, we have that, I'm going to be really candid with you.
We are scaring a generation of potential emerging leaders in our industry because they are seeing what success, quote, unquote looks like as a practitioner in terms of I'm working 90 hours. Um, I have completely forsaking everything else I'm focused on, on my job and my job alone. I'm driving profits and our generation is [00:27:00] looking at us and they're thinking, Hmm, maybe not so much because I want other experiences in my life.
And so I think for us as an industry, uh, we're going to have to address sort of the, the, the measures and the metrics that we've created that define what a successful designer, uh, does, what a successful designer looks like and what successful, uh, firms, uh, how they conduct business in order to meet, uh, I think the, the changing needs and expectations of, of our future leaders and that has to happen of course, through mentorship.
But we also have to be intentional as an industry to recognize that there's a generational shift that is taking place. And it's, it's not to say one generation, uh, should be accommodated more than the other, but I think there's an opportunity that we're missing to understand that the value of the [00:28:00] cross-pollination of ideas and supports that actually made possible by allowing a generational approach to how we're protecting for the future of our industry.
Dan Ryan: Well, you said two things that really resonated with me there. One was scaring we're scaring, an incoming generation. So there's a fear and then metrics and measureables. I love fear because it's often a great teacher. Right. It's really scary, obviously, but
Ian Rolston: yeah,
Dan Ryan: but it's the same way in that idea when you were speaking about making yourself vulnerable and it's that fear there's there's oftentimes it's a great it's intuition.
It's it's feeling it's empathy. It's telling us something. Right. So how are you taking that fear that newcomers may have, and then how are you measuring the change? Like what, what are the metrics, uh, I know you said [00:29:00] mentorship and just this idea of a generational shift, but like, how are you measuring?
Ian Rolston: Right. Well, first let me, let me talk a little bit about the fear component. We, we have to shift the fear component, um, from a more sort of, um, what we think now is, is fear is you're, you're sort of more fear of the repercussions of the action or not measuring up or not doing. And so I talk a lot to students about just embracing the process of failure because failing is it's.
It's a great tool. Um, in order for you to test ideas, to shift, uh, courses, to learn how to do that quickly, to understand what's working and what's not, um, it's that sort of minimal viable product approach. And so we have to define redefine what fear is, and really embrace, uh, failing and failing fast and hard and [00:30:00] being okay with it and getting up in and doing it again.
Um, and so the, the metrics I think for, for doing this need to be sort of measured more so in how we are collaborating, uh, with individuals, if you have a group that is sharing openly. Uh, feeling like they are contributing, even if those ideas may not be landing, but that there's this open dialogue and exchange where people feel like they belong.
And they're part of the process. Um, the other metric, I, I try to, uh, land politely and softly, uh, with groups is that you, you have to be able to look around and ensure that those that you are collaborating with are not all like you. We have to, even if you have to engage in, uh, bringing other groups in that are even totally [00:31:00] different from the industry that you participate in, you gotta go out and reach out to some folks and bring them into the tent and have some conversations.
Dan Ryan: So recently, I don't know if you've heard this one, but I had a island COO who's the CEO of the opportunity at work in New York. It's an organization I really believe strongly in, and this isn't their tenant, but I don't know who said this, but it really resonated with me and helped me really want to get more involved with them.
But it it's the idea that talent is uniformly distributed amongst humanity. Right. But opportunity is not absolutely so, and I think it's all of our duties to. Really help extend opportunities to those that might not have it. And it's not because they're not good or they're, they're, they're from somewhere else.
It's just because many people don't know how to leverage their own personal networks. Right. Um, or they only use it for [00:32:00] themselves. And I think that in me talking to you right now, or if I'm talking to anyone, if I'm talking to you or someone else, whoever I'm talking to at this moment is a gateway to a whole nother world.
Absolutely. Right. And your whole life experience to where, to this point where we're speaking right now, it's thousands and thousands and thousands of conversations and connections that you've had. Right. And, and, and it's the same and it's reciprocal, right. So it's really, how do we shorten other people's journeys through leveraging our networks to help shorten their journeys?
You know, it's absolutely. And I think that we can all benefit from that level of sharing. Yeah.
Ian Rolston: I think even to connect back to this idea of hospitality, hospitality is sharing. And so as we are practicing within this industry, we have to really represent, uh, some of those tenants. Uh, so being open and sharing and considering it, [00:33:00] uh, these are things that we, I believe as practitioners need to continue to model, uh, whether it's with a potential client or with a student or, you know, someone that you've struck up a conversation with, uh, at the airport on your way to the next, your next meeting, right?
We, we do represent a sense of humanity that goes beyond, uh, the work that we're producing
Dan Ryan: a hundred percent. And it's also, you know, I love that conversation with the, with the person at the airport or in passing, right. You know, these we're all on our phones. We're all on our devices. We're all doing this.
And it just upsets me so much that as we're all looking at our palms or whatever, we're holding, we're missing out on that opportunity for connection. And it really pisses me off. Like I try my hardest to put it down and talk to people and my kids think it's always weird that I'm talking to random all over, but [00:34:00] like, I dunno, I just love hearing people's stories and I think we can all learn from everyone surrounding us.
Yeah.
Ian Rolston: It's amazing how, you know, we had talked about fear. We have to challenge ourselves. I think it's part of our human experience to get out of our comfort zone. Uh, and even the course of your day, even if it's for 15 minutes to say, I'm not going to look at this thing, this. But I'm actually going to do something that I don't typically do and be intentional about that.
I think we can all agree that there are probably areas in our lines where we need to be more intentional about how we're engaging with others. And so I was actually struck this past year. I had an opportunity to speak to a teacher, Joseph Roberts, who was one of the chief architects of the reconciliation, um, reform here in, in Canada with our, uh, wonderful, uh, indigenous communities.
And [00:35:00] he actually outlined this, this idea of reconciliation as a lifestyle, uh, that struck him deeply. Um, and we're, we're, we're looking more in, how do we actually make sure that this idea of reconciliation is a part of our interactions in every moment of every day in the most simplest way of expressing kindness or acknowledging.
Uh, or, or sharing or letting someone maybe cut in line, uh, before you in, in very like simple ways, it doesn't have to be these sort of huge gestures, but how do we keep this front of mind so that we are affirming our sense of humanity in others, but also in ourselves as well.
Dan Ryan: Okay. That's super interesting.
So give me an example as a justice Roberts, it's justice Roberts, Keith chief Roberts, chief, chief Roberts, like, okay. So [00:36:00] when I think of reconciliation, I hear the big reconciliation, right? And what I'm hearing you say is it doesn't have to be the big one. It could be the little one. So I got my head around the big one.
The big one to me is Rwandan genocide. They had this incredible and painful truth and reconciliation process where. They laid it all out there as a community, as a nation, as tribes, as everything, and just got it off. There was no misunderstanding. There was no inferring. It was just all there. Right. I look at the United States and I say, okay, the civil war was over in 1865, right.
1868. I forget what year. Exactly. And I don't think we ever really did the whole big reconciliation thing. And I feel like it's creating all these other problems and inference is 160 years [00:37:00] later. However, man, I'm a, math is not good right now. So I, I see the good and I see the missed opportunities, right?
On a big scale. How do you do like walk me through reconciliation on, on like a small scale.
Ian Rolston: I can tell you just this this morning. Uh, my wife and I had a misunderstood. And it, all it took was me to say, um, I'm sorry. I didn't know. I, that's not what I intended, but this is what I do want and to the want affirmed person to humanity.
And that was it. We were good again, it just took, you know, not focusing on sort of getting caught up in my own feelings about the situation to say, Hey, wait, no, I want you to be good. I'm sorry. This is what I want. This is what I, this is what I wanted. This is what I intended, just small moments. There was another one with, um, and I'll use my family cause I've been hanging out with my family for [00:38:00] a lot.
As many of us have been, uh, you know, my son wasn't having the greatest day I had, uh, a box of lollipops. Um, I just gave him say, you know, tear up, have a lollipop. That's all it took to change. So we can do these small acts that can have a big impact on the people that are around us. I
Dan Ryan: totally get it now.
Okay. So actually to make it personally, for me, I had an instance like that an over a year ago where I was on a call and it didn't go well. Um, and it turns out after the fact, I heard that the person I was speaking with thought that I was mansplaining to them, which I was, and it killed me for like a year.
And then I haven't been able to see anyone and all this and then, and kind of set it straight. I bumped into that person a couple times and I just couldn't, it was [00:39:00] never appropriate to like, bring up that situation. Right. And, um, and then I saw them recently and I said, listen, I just, and I made sure no one else was around.
I decided I gotta like, talk about this with you. And I said, I. I'm sure that you heard what you heard. So I don't want to discount that and you heard it the way that you heard it, but I need you to know that that was a hundred million percent not my intention. Right. And I said to her, I said to them, I said, you know, thank you so much for, for making this an issue because I feel like we're all we all exist.
And we all live in these jars, if you will. Right. And we can't read the label on the jars that we're in. And sometimes we need help reading our labels. And the only way you can do that is from an outside thing. In this case, it's [00:40:00] more often than not. It's a misunderstanding, it's that blind spots that we might have.
And so at the end, I just, I, I thanked them and I said, thank you so much, but it's been really killing me. And I just want to. Et cetera. Right. So I guess that, that was a reconciliation in some way. So I'm excited. I mean, I'm accepting my fault and my role in whatever the misunderstanding is and understanding that there could have been a misunderstanding and then just not expecting any kind of different outcome, but just, I just got to clear the air with you and Hey.
Yeah,
Ian Rolston: absolutely. I say that we, we don't have to be right. Or we don't have to agree, but we have to be human beings that that's the standard,
Dan Ryan: but with my kids, I'm always right. That's what we have to understand.
Ian Rolston: Parents get exempted from,
Dan Ryan: and then our kids will resent us and hate us when they're old. Right.
Ian Rolston: Oh gosh.
Dan Ryan: That's [00:41:00] hilarious. Um, okay, well, that's awesome. I gotta read more about chief Roberts, chief Robert. Yes. Many. Reconciliations or many reconciliations. I think that's really important. It's laying it out, being vulnerable and bridging the gap, I guess, closing, closing the space. Yeah.
Ian Rolston: Huh. Definitely. And you can imagine applying, applying that principle to some of the things that LS in our wider society, w we have to understand that, you know, issues of race and discrimination and equity, these are all difficult topics that we are not going to solve, uh, in the matter of, uh, months or years, but we have to stay committed to the exchange of, of humanity and understanding the disruption, uh, that, that [00:42:00] these ideas, uh, and that this history has heaped on us, uh, and to grapple with it in a way that really promotes understanding.
Um, and seeks for a way forward with, without disparaging, uh, and any anyone,
Dan Ryan: well, it comes back to that trust and respect, right? Correct. And feeling comfortable. And actually that's probably really pillar number three, which is problem solving. So as, as the leader of IDC, what on the third pillar, like where are you spending most of your time, um, solving problems.
And I also love how you said that design is really just solving problems. And so before you answer third pillar, I always did art growing up. I painted, I drew, I was really, I loved it. You know, I got into some really cool art and design schools, but as, as a artist, as someone who was drawing and [00:43:00] painting and just making stuff, but it wasn't until I was maybe before my senior year of high school, I did an architecture program at Cornell.
Oh, and well, it was just like, it was all a bunch of high schoolers from all over the place that came and it was really cool. Um, and you know, the first thing was like, Hey, build a cube out of Strathmore and draw it build. Uh, and then it was like, pick a word. I think I chose fragmentation there, all these, um, different adjectives that were on a page.
And then it was like, okay, make a, a plane or a surface. And then you had to fuse them together, physically in model, and then also drawing them and then describe it. And that was after years and years and years of doing art, that was the first time I'd ever encountered design, which was taking an idea and creating something and solving for a problem.
Right. And I think that, so we teach art in school. We teach music, we [00:44:00] teach smart staff, science, math, you know, English or whatever language writing. But we don't teach design and that's crazy in a way we do like, okay, you're going to write a paper on whatever subject you're learning. You kind of have to think about a thesis, explain it.
And you're designing an argument, but it's not really taught as the idea of design. So I guess coming back to the third pillar, how are you solving that? How are you, how, what are the big problems you're solving?
Ian Rolston: So it's, it's interesting that you started with the, uh, sharing of your art experience. So when I was in high school, I had a art teacher, Mr.
John Doyle, that absolutely changed the trajectory of my life. Uh, and he taught me in painting to focus on like the little shapes. Don't get overwhelmed by the, the big picture. Yet you [00:45:00] got to just focus on the shapes that you're trying to articulate. And those shapes accumulatively will create your candidates and then you just, uh, from there.
And so I've sort of taken that to heart in terms of how I approach problem solving and how I like to help groups. Uh problem-solving we have to focus on particular areas because there are too many problems. Uh, when we look at our, our society that we need to solve, but we can understand that we have tools at our disposal, um, understand what's at hand that you can use and then go and connect with someone who's actually actively out there, boots on the ground, doing the work and really determined to support them.
So right now we're looking at various community groups that are looking to solve the housing crisis issue, uh, in many communities, um, both across the wider [00:46:00] communities and underrepresented communities in okay. And we're seeking to lend our support to them both financially, but also with that, the skill and experience of our members to sort of be additional boots on the ground too, to help sort of support their initiatives.
So, so that's just one, one example of how focusing on one area and connecting to a group that already, uh, is entrenched in the, in solving the problem and Linden our support, uh, will help expedite, uh, and, and really augment their, their, their approach to addressing
Dan Ryan: this. Okay. So on the housing crisis, um, if you were to break it down, like your, like your teacher, Mr.
Doyle, was it like he said, okay. So we all have great teachers. I had Alice stanky and Anne Garris and Garris, I think re re passed away within the past year. But those two, um, [00:47:00] Uh, they just really changed my life in so many ways. And, um, I think about Alice stinky, every time I listened to the talking heads, because from sixth grade onward, whenever I had her as a teacher, she would always be playing the talking heads.
And it just it's like this soundtrack that I love listening to when I paint or draw or just actually do anything. Um, but it's amazing those pivotal, um, teachers that we all have, but going back to, yeah, well, going back to Mr. Doyle, if you look at the housing crisis, what are the little shapes that you're seeing from these experts that you're partnering with now?
How are they breaking it down into the little shapes?
Ian Rolston: Yeah, I think the big one is access. Um, w we have a challenge with accessing, um, Both opportunity and physical space, uh, for building a diversity of housing types that would meet the need. Uh, [00:48:00] and so there's some challenges of course, with our zoning laws.
Um, but there is also a huge affordability issue, um, and the gap between communities that can afford, uh, to participate within our industry, uh, and those that cannot, and right now the shortage in housing has created such disparity in affordability, that it is, it seems nearly impossible, uh, that if you are not able to purchase a home for a million dollars, then you will not have a home.
Um, and so we have to work, uh, across so many industry sectors in order to address this issue and, and to unlock the gridlock that is, um, That is in place. The other challenge, uh, that some groups we haven't been specifically involved in this, but we understand because housing has become such a commodity, uh, that it has [00:49:00] driven prices, uh, in a, in a place where we're, we're moving away from housing being, uh, a basic human right to housing, being a product that is to be sold of course, to the highest bidder for the maximum profits.
So we have to balance out, uh, both needs of the industry, uh, and how those needs serve our communities because housing provides a need. Uh, we, we can't refute that. Uh, we know it as a fantastic business, uh, with real estate and it supports the economies, what we have to find a balance so that we're, we're not, uh, creating, uh, Let's just call it this devastation or destruction for a group of people because we're serving one entity over the other.
I totally
Dan Ryan: agree. And to me, I think there's two, you mentioned zoning and I think there's two things zoning and also this incredibly fast run-up of short-term rentals, [00:50:00] which is it's basically showcase showing that there's an inelastic supply of housing. Like there's, uh, an and I think a quick way to do it is we've got to look at the short-term rental thing.
Number one, number two density is like a sure-fire way to fix it because you're just adding a lot more units and density in so many different ways. I believe I'm not an expert. I have no idea, but like it, when you have density, you have public transportation, you have you're building really tight-knit communities from environmentally.
It checks all the boxes. And I just feel like the, on the zoning side, Once you get into to the realm of zoning, it becomes a political thing. And then there's all of this. Like everyone's looking out for their own best interests and everything else as on the development side, but not necessarily for the, for the people.
Ian Rolston: Right. And, and, and really that, that is the challenge. We we've been talking so much [00:51:00] about empathy, um, and empathy without will to change really doesn't it doesn't do a whole lot then. Um, really at the essence of it is, you know, a great sort of human expression, but we have to move beyond just having empathy, but we have to have the will to make change, uh, visible and apparent and real for, for individuals and people, groups that, that need this.
Um, And so it, like I said, we're going at the leverage so many, uh, labors of government and industry and community groups, because the, even the diversity of those entities are coming together and solving this problem, uh, really will impact the future generations, uh, exponentially. Uh, so it's, it's going to take a Herculean effort, um, and a diverse approach and inclusive [00:52:00] approach to unlocking, uh, in solving for this, this, this crisis in particularly in Canada.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Especially in Alberta, when oil is over a hundred dollars a barrel, and then you get these little houses out in the middle of nowhere for more than a million dollars. It's crazy. It's insane. It's,
Ian Rolston: it's hard to watch and it's hard to fathom even as a father, when, you know, you sort of think of your kids.
What you, what is that? What is the market gonna look like when you're looking to get into it, uh, and raise a family and do all those things? Um, so you, you, you wonder, um, not only for my kids, but also kids in, in other communities, uh, that we say you are to dream, uh, you are to have, uh, aspirations. Um, we still uphold, uh, these, these barriers.
Uh, that presents themselves while they're dreaming. And while they're aspiring, that that really do undermine that the [00:53:00] dreams and the aspirations. So we've got to look at the systems that are in place for sure. Well, I
Dan Ryan: hope you figure it out because hopefully we can apply that in other places. Although even if you figure it out in Canada, you know, the next big fear is that the United States is going to steal all your water.
So even if you have a place where to live, you're not going to have any water because we're going to take it all. This is true. So
Ian Rolston: keep your hands off for water. Dan. We'll come get you.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, no, ours come to summer. Well, not from the great lakes, so we're all good, but, um, that's a joke. It's a weird conspiracy theory that I think.
I think there was a really bad B movie that was made a couple of years ago about it as well. And I think I saw it on an airplane and I was like, and I laugh. As soon as I landed, I called some friends in Toronto. I was like, is this a thing? And then they're like, yeah, I have so many friends that think that there's all these legal battles going on now.
And the whole outcome is about taking the, taking water from Canada. Right. Anyway, [00:54:00] just makes me laugh. Um, okay, so we got your three pillars, you're salt, and I, I truly do wish you a ton of success, um, uh, on the problem solving and teaching for design. But if you think about, um, kind of where you are, you're, you're nearly two you're in your second year, right?
You're in your second year as president of IDC. Um, what can
Ian Rolston: you're on the board first year as
Dan Ryan: president first year? So you're, you're going to be going into your second year shortly. Well,
Ian Rolston: so we'll see where it's it's for, um, installed for the first. Uh, well, we'll, we'll have a, the members will vote in, I believe October, November.
Oh, good.
Dan Ryan: If I was a member, I'd vote for you. So there we go. But I'm not, I I'm not Canadian, so I can't, but if I could I'll, I'll, I'll do an influence campaign for you.
Well, okay. So you're in your first year, um, and live that and kind of these three pillars that we've discussed at length, [00:55:00] what's exciting you most about the future?
Ian Rolston: So I think there is an understanding, um, that we were at a place in our 50th history where the world has changed. Uh, and so we have an opportunity to rediscover and redefine sort of what design is going to mean going forward, uh, in the.
Um, and I do think that that means understanding that we have a responsibility to be connectors, uh, with others within the industry, uh, to sort of tell a story that we may have maybe overlooked, um, in the past. And it moves beyond sort of the regulatory, uh, sort of aspects of design. But I don't really think people understand how critical design, like we were talking to a group of kids, as I mentioned.
And one of the questions we ask them is what is design [00:56:00] and, you know, they have fantastic answers. And I, I tell them that it's a way of problem solving, but, but where is design? And just to see them start pointing out, you know, a wall per floor, I like everything that we interact with in our physical world with design.
And so I think that affords us an awesome opportunity as an industry to really share that with communities outside of the a and D community to say, Hey, we can improve your life. We know how, uh, and it's, it's a, uh, a critical industry to our sense of wellbeing moving forward, as let's just say as humanity.
Hmm.
Dan Ryan: I love it. Um, okay. So one more question. So if you go back to the Ian of may of 2000, you're just starting at Yahoo pusher Berg on your, your career [00:57:00] journey, right? So you enter a time as a time machine you're back there, you see yourself sitting at the desk, probably. There might've been a computer, but it might've been a drafting table.
Did you have a computer then?
Ian Rolston: We had both actually. Okay.
Dan Ryan: So you were still drawing and computer. Okay. Good. So you walk up to your younger self there. Ian, what advice do you give yourself?
Ian Rolston: Oh goodness.
Oh, there's so many ways I could answer this question. Okay. So I would say, I would say pace yourself, um, because in this industry it requires, uh, an immense amount of focus, uh, to do what you do well, um, and that you don't have an infinite amount of energy. And so you have to be very strategic about how you were going to [00:58:00] deploy your resources in your energy.
And really achieving some of your, your, your goals and supporting, uh, your employer and supporting your clients. Definitely.
Dan Ryan: I love it. Energy is an energy maintenance and restoration. For me personally, is something that I struggle with a lot, and I'm always tinkering. And, you know, we get to that place where we're in that flow.
I used to do it a lot that I lost my way now it's coming back a bit, but it really takes a lot of effort to, to pace and get to that flow to where we're nourishing and restoring. So I, oh my God. If I could figure out a way to do that from when I was younger, that would be, I'm telling
Ian Rolston: you I would have so much more energy right now.
Dan Ryan: All the kids take that all that away. Well, this is true. Um, so Ian, this has been awesome. How do people connect with you
Ian Rolston: so they can check me out, uh, [00:59:00] on our website, the cancer p.com. And connect with me via email. I love to chat and love to meet new folks.
Dan Ryan: Wonderful. Um, so I just want to eat, and I want to say thank you so much.
This has been a really enjoyable and kind of informative or not kind of very informative conversation. So I just thank you for your time and your efforts here.
Ian Rolston: No, I, and I appreciate you. Um, I don't think I've ever had an opportunity to sort of engage with someone so easily, as you know, we just started talking.
Um, you're a fantastic human being and so I just wish you all the best and thank you for even inviting me on, uh, to chop it up with you for a minute.
Dan Ryan: Oh, you're very, very welcome. And now you're making me blush and Mo and thank you to Dion for actually put making that connection. Absolutely. That's amazing.
Like she, she knew that this would be a great conversation. Yes. [01:00:00] Wow. Okay. We've got to send her some flowers or chocolates.
Ian Rolston: Definitely real quick.
Dan Ryan: All right. Center. Yeah, let's do it. Excuse me, as I cough, but uh, also really important. I just want to thank our listeners. I hope this talk has evolved your feeling on hospitality and design in the built environment.
And if it has shortened your journey towards a better understanding of both of those things, please share the podcast with others. We're growing and growing, and it's all by word of mouth and we will see you next time. Thank you. Thank
Ian Rolston: you.