Defining Hospitality

[00:00:00]
Dan Ryan: today's guest is passionate about hospitality. She can see through the maze of real estate economics. She has a ton of experience on the real estate ownership side, within our hospitality industry.
She is a member of, and also on the board of advisors of the boutique lifestyle leadership leaders association also known as B L L a. She is the president of curator, hotel and resort collection, ladies and gentlemen, Jen Barnwell. Welcome Jen.
Jennifer Barnwell: Nice to see you.
Dan Ryan: Oh, it's so good to see you. I love doing all these introductions because you know, it's interesting for me [00:01:00] as I go back through people's CVS or, and just kind of look at their experience and we have crossed paths.
Although never meeting each other for so long because of your experience at pep, at Pebblebrook, correct. On the CapEx side. And like, I love doing this podcast, but what I do on my day job is I furnish hotels. So like you were involved in at a very high level and a lot of the projects that I was working on.
Um, but I never actually had the pleasure to meet you until I started doing, um, these interviews for independent launching Congress, which was also the first time I really started interviewing people. So you were at the very early stage of my career on the furnishing side, but also very early stage of the podcast side.
Um, and I just truly enjoyed that and you in a way have helped me kind of get us to where we are in this conversation right now. So thank you.
Jennifer Barnwell: Oh, well thank you. I mean, you make it so easy. I remember that. Well, maybe [00:02:00] it was a little more. Pressurized, but I I'll see was actually like an Insta live and I, first time I had done one of those go, no, it's live, like, keep it together and do a good job.
And you made it very comfortable and very easy. So I'm always happy to talk to you. Well, thank
Dan Ryan: you very much. And I do prefer this longer format than the third. The 30 minute one is great. The live thing adds a whole wrinkle. Cause like you're always acting as a filter on what you're saying and like, ah, and, and then you're just live and then I feel, but I also felt like right, as you would hit, 30 minutes is right when we, when we would start hitting our stride.
Right. And to go back to our conversation, then, I mean, we were talking about curator, but I think the premise of the conversation was that you guys have been growing so much, but at the time I feel. What you guys have built there. And it, wasn't just a recent idea and new [00:03:00] venture it's been planned for a very, very long time, but I felt that curator hotel and resorts was almost the most under reported, but also most highly impactful birth within our hospitality industry.
Um, and I'm so impressed with the progress that you've made so far, but especially as an entrepreneur and loved the, for my love of independent hotels. Um, I'd just love for you in your own words, to just bring everyone up to speed on what curator is and how and how you're making an impact.
Jennifer Barnwell: Well, thank you for saying that.
And the lead in, you know, it made me laugh a little bit because maybe our modesty is a kind of getting the best of us. So it goes back to, you know, all those years at Pebblebrook and you know, our culture there is like, We're not shouting wonderful. We are from the rooftops. We tend to be a little under the radar in the background and, you [00:04:00] know, a little modest as I, as I said, but when you're launching a new company and you need participation, you really have to be out there and, uh, kind of front and center.
So, you know, the, the short history is that, although it was kind of in development at Pebblebrook for a few years, we launched curator, hotel and resort collection. Hopefully everyone can see my lovely logo, um, back in November of 2020. So what curator is kind of is at its core or its mission is value creation for independent hotels.
Like why can't all these independent hotels. Very, you know, small brands and independent operators. Why can't we all come together for mutual benefit? Like why not? Like, um, it has nothing to do with, you know, we're not, um, [00:05:00] concerned with, in, in, in worried about, you know, the competition, we should be competing together on things like reducing our costs, finding the best vendors for our operation and our business and everything curator does comes from the owner's standpoint.
So everything is incredibly flexible. Um, you can come, you know, you can kind of almost come and go as you want, but of course, we're going to want you to stay in because we're going to create so much value for you and make your life so much easier is in independent hotel, which we know can be very, very difficult and harder than.
So fast forward to today, we have almost 90 member hotels, which we're super excited for. We have member hotels across 20 states in 43 cities. We're kind of almost evenly split between resorts and kind of what you would call like a more urban type hotel. So we have a lot of resorts, which is [00:06:00] really exciting and also a lot of, um, urban and, um, maybe even call it second tier cities.
And in terms of our program offerings, which is kind of the crux of what we do and how we create value, we have over 80 programs today, which goes across. I mean, we, we love to say we have something for every single thing. You need to operate a hotel, but we're getting there. We've made a huge amount of progress.
So. You know, if you need a parking vendor or you need an AAV vendor or you need, um, some, you know, you want to work with a GPO or a bottle of water or you're, you're examining your tech stack. You know, everything from PMs, RMS, CRS, business intelligence, we have offerings for all of that. And the important point is the process we go through.
So, you know, we have the incredible resources and knowledge of pelvic hotel trust. You know, who's [00:07:00] been around since the end of 2009 has this amazing portfolio today of, um, 53 hotels and all the works with 16 different operators. So all that knowledge brand and unbranded, and we partnered with a group of operators.
We call them our founding members that also operate. Sometimes own a little, you know, a portion, but mainly operate amazing independent hotels. And some of them manage franchise brand hotels too. So we have this huge knowledge base to pull from to bring all these independent together, independent hotels together and share best practices and fully vet, every single offering that we put forward for the collection.
So it's very methodical, you know, it's somewhat of a long process because we want to look at every kind of qualified vendor in a space and do all the due diligence and all the investigation that we really should. And in many cases, we test that in our, [00:08:00] in the own Pebblebrook portfolio to make sure they can execute well.
And then we just keep, you know, pretty quickly we have been enrolling a lot of these programs out. Yeah. Getting member hotels in and getting an adoption and engagement and showing people cost savings and value creation is what we're all about. Well, I
Dan Ryan: think that that's really the most incredible thing because, okay.
So having come up in the independent hotel space, like my first projects were with Kimpton, right. So, you know, they, and actually I had an interesting conversation with, um, a friend of mine and, um, they were on this, in this discussion about just lifestyle hotels. And like, if you really get down to it, what is a boutique hotel?
What is an independent hotel? What is a versus, uh, a bed and breakfast or in like there's no real hard line or definition. Right. It's not a binary thing. Right. It's kind of one of those things that you see it, you know it, right. Yeah. But, but I, I was, I had this interesting [00:09:00] conversation and I was like, you know, With this, with the birth of all of these lifestyle slash independent or quasi independent hotels.
Um, I feel like none of the, none of this would have happened if bill Kimpton hadn't first done that at scale. Right. He was the first one to take these really cool, um, hotel concept hotels that he did or his, he and his team did, and really figured out a way to scale that right. In the history of independent hotels.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Barnwell: Yeah. And I, um, you know, it's sad to say, I didn't really have any, um, interaction with Kimpton's organization or their hotels until I got to. But then I was very happy to have that, that, uh, relationship and, um, you know, indoctrination into Kim Donnez. And it was very exciting because when I joined Pebblebrook back in 2010, we had already purchased the [00:10:00] surf Francis Drake in San Francisco, which we have since, um, we have since sold, but I got to know cause it was in San Francisco.
I mean, I got to know, you know, almost everyone at their corporate organization, very open doors, just like the best, you know, people, the culture, everyone was so lovely and, you know, almost kind of unique personalities. It was really Fino now. And through the life of Pebblebrook, we've owned many Kimptons and now we only have a few laugh at it.
It was really fun to work on those hotels and they were always so creative, you know, and always forward thinking about how to make their hotel special and make sure it was always one of those things was like, um, Surprise and delight that coming up a lot, surprise and delight. What are we doing? And it was incorporated everywhere, not only the design, but also the guest experience.
And, you know, they were so focused on their employees to
Dan Ryan: [00:11:00] I totally and completely agree. And then if you think about the, in all of the independent hoteliers who maybe don't have the access to capital or, um, that long-term strategic vision or just, or maybe they do, they just don't know how to get there.
One of the incredible thing I'm finding about as I learn more about you and at curator, and what you're doing is you really are helping leverage all of these hotels that may have existed in a silo or alone and said, Hey, join us. Be you. And we're going to help improve your bottom line. And to me, that's so incredible to have that targeted, um, audience that you're going after and really helping them.
Because once you've the thing, you know, you have a lot more experience in real estate than I do. But when you think about, um, when you think about the, um, the, when you throw in leverage on things, every percent of [00:12:00] savings or basis, point of savings that a real estate asset can find, it increases the tr the, the value tremendously.
Jennifer Barnwell: So, yeah, I mean, we use, it may be a, you know, maybe the numbers are even higher for independence, but just in the public space. I mean, it's like every dollar we save, we put like a 15 multiple on it, or like, you know, a six cap, however you want to look at it. So that's how we view it. Like every dollar you can get and profit increases your value kind of 15 times that
Dan Ryan: it's amazing.
Uh, so I guess, you know, as you think about as you're out there and you're growing and I'm, I'm, that's awesome. You have 90 hotels already, um, especially coming out of what we've come out of. So congratulations and kudos, but I know you have your incredible founding partners speak generally or specifically about like, um, an independent hotel that you've found [00:13:00] that dot onto your platform and like how it's changed the value, how it's changed their value proposition and the value that they've driven that they're creating for themselves and their shareholders, if they have
Jennifer Barnwell: them.
Yeah. Well, I I'd start with, uh, one of the things I always like to say is curator is an active endeavor. It's participatory and we need engagement and we need resources, you know, from the hotel and the hotel team. So that's kind of, you know, the bare minimum, because what we're doing is looking at. You know, pretty much every contract a hotel has.
And thinking about, you know, is this a vendor that curator already works with today? So we can, we already have better pricing. That's kind of instantaneous, or are you going to need to switch vendors? Which means it's a switching product or perhaps a switching systems, which sounds very daunting. I've been through it, you know, [00:14:00] many, many times at my properties and it is, or can be a big undertaking and sometimes there's hiccups along the way, but that's what we're here for to make that process as easy as possible.
And we can be onsite, you know, whatever we need to do to make sure these items which has happened, you know, relatively painlessly. But, you know, we have a case of, um, a hotel that joined us, you know, pretty recently, only in the last couple of months, And they are like all hyped up and really excited about curator.
Um, we'd only been talking to them maybe a couple of months before they joined and they are a one-off, you know, hotel, that's all by themselves. It's an owner operator situation. You know, he's got a bunch of investors, you know, that, that he has to answer to, you know, an, a lender as well. And he just gets it.
He's like, why am I going to continue to go it alone? And, you know, the more difficult path when I can come into this collective, see what they have to [00:15:00] offer, and I can make some switches really quickly that are going to impact my bottom line. So, you know, today I think they've opted into things like, um, kind of maybe the more, the easier things like credit card processing and credit card gateway and making sure they're aligned with the geo for the GOP, the GPO partner that we've chosen.
And they're looking at some of the it stack systems, like, you know, PMs and CRS, um, that they use today, but also believe it or not, they're not using a revenue management system. So now they're saying, okay, I view this more as a value add, let me get the whole rundown from our partner happens to be Duetto.
Let's get our whole, the whole rundown from them. Let's see if they can truly benefit, uh, you know, benefit us. If we put it in a revenue management system, how will that help us bring more top line revenue in? Who's gonna be responsible? Do we even have, you know, the right revenue [00:16:00] professional, that's going to oversee that for us.
And we just continually engage with them, you know, every week go down the line of every single program offering we have, you know, and even early on in these early weeks, I mean, He's going to see tens of thousands of dollars of savings on an annualized basis. And it's just going to continue to multiply as we get further down this list.
And there's also going to be a story about here's kind of the subset of offerings that they didn't engage with before, but they see value in them either because it helps them price their hotel better. So they're going to bring in more top line revenue or their teams are going to be more efficient. So I'm not talking about cutting labor.
I'm just talking about people that you have maybe can be more efficient at the things they did previously, and maybe do a few more things that they maybe didn't have time for. Um, and then we continue to [00:17:00] vet new technologies on a pilot basis. So, you know, at any given time we may have three or four pilot programs going on.
So he. You know, take a look at a rewards program and see if that's right for him. Um, or, you know, kind of any other grouping of things that we have offering and just test them and say, you know, I don't have this thing today, but let's see if it works for me. And if it does, I'm going to keep it. And I have this like amazing curator pricing that goes along with it.
Dan Ryan: And I I'm curious. Okay. So this owner, and just using this as a, as a general example, um, for the owner of this independent hotel, either the specific one or using that as an archetype, correct. So are most of the owner slash I guess the most of the owners, are they guest facing often? Are they, are they involved in the day-to-day of the hotel?
Jennifer Barnwell: They, they are involved [00:18:00] in kind of knowing what's happening for sure. So they'll, you know, get the reports, there'll be, you know, at least the ones we've engaged with today year to date, they absolutely know kind of like exactly how their hotel has done. Like the night, the day before the, you know, the, the previous week, they keep really close tabs on it.
Um, this, you know, owner which kind of is replicated throughout our grouping. He he's actually the one on all these calls with us. Like he knows exactly what systems they have in place. And in terms of kind of, you know, deeper dives or financial specifically, I mean, the director of finance is always on the calls with us too.
So we have found that yes, they are. They totally have their finger on the pulse of what's going on, which, um, made it a very easy decision. It almost wasn't like, you know, it didn't have to be a sales pitch with him. He gets it. And I don't want it to feel like a sales pitch, cause I'm not [00:19:00] like running around, you know, begging people to join curator.
I do believe in it so much. And I'm so excited about it because I see what we're doing for all these hotels. Again, whether it's a singular, you know, owner operator, or if you can be part of a bigger group, like, you know, a noble house or, you know, a springboard or a stage. And it's just, there's so much more power when we come together.
So we certainly want to bring up the single owner operators or the very small operators up to the level of maybe where the bigger guys are. But even collectively, we're all going to move to an even better level than we all were previously. No matter how big or small you were. And it also goes back to resources, it's almost.
You know today, hopefully it'll get better today. It doesn't matter. You know, if you're a hotel on the Pebblebrook portfolio or you're a one-off owner, operated hotel, [00:20:00] resources are scarce. Hiring is very difficult. So we really, truly are a recent, another, you know, inactive, inactive, and captive resource for anything hotels could need, you know, agreement, contract, you know, cost cutting
Dan Ryan: wise.
That's I think that's what that's where I'm seeing this value. Also aside from just improving the asset performance. Correct. Because every hotel owner wants that, obviously, but I also feel like whenever a hotel owner and independent hotel owner operator doesn't necessarily have the scale as like you were just laying out all of these.
I don't even know it. Doesn't acronym have to spell something. Anyway, all these abbreviated things from GPO PMs, what scuba scuba is a, it's an acronym, but it there's a word for
Jennifer Barnwell: the underwater breathing apparatus, but there's something where the self-contained apparatus.
Dan Ryan: [00:21:00] Yeah. My point is, well, whatever that is, it makes a word.
So maybe it's different than them, just an acronym, um, where it actually spells out a word. But as you're saying all these alphabet soups of, uh, of acronyms, um, from the gateway to the GP group purchasing organization or GPO or the PMs or the revenue management RMS, um, it would seem to me that if I were an independent owner operator that as I'm evaluating and optimizing, I am looking at all these and having my team on site look at all these, which is actually detracting potentially from the guest experience as well.
So in the sense that. Vetting all of these, you're delivering savings from day one. It's allowing the, the team onsite to ensure that the guest is having a better experience, which then I guess it could come back to, you know, with you at curator and you Jen, with all of [00:22:00] your hotel experience, how do you define hospitality?
Jennifer Barnwell: Um, love that question. So, so for me, I think about it from the viewpoint of the experience. So I think about how I feel when I, so again, from the hotel perspective, if I even look, you know, you're looking for something online or, you know, I have to be in a certain location, you know, whatever, my, my choice ends up being when I get there.
For me, it's all about the experience. So it's, you know, I step inside, like how does it make me feel, you know? And, um, what catches my eye? You know, what do I see? That's interesting. What kind of peaks? My curiosity, you know, it's just like, [00:23:00] what about all my senses? Even, you know, some of those hotels that have sense now, like are, you might be smelling something interesting and looking at a whole lot of interesting things.
So that's, that's what, how I tend to define it, because that is what is memorable to me. Like hospitality for me, I want it to be an experience that's memorable. And then, you kind of carry that with you always. So it's about engaged for me. It's about like engaging your senses and how you feel. And kind of the memories that you take away from that experience in a hotel.
And it could be in a lot of different ways and it can be, even different throughout your stay, but everything from how it looks to how the people engage with you how you feel in the room, how you feel, at the pool and, whatever they have to offer for you and how maybe seamless or easy or [00:24:00] not, it is.
So for me, it's that delivery of the experience and the memories.
Dan Ryan: I love that. And if you take that delivery of experience and memories, cause what's so cool. Is there again, just like there's no definition of boutique independent, um, in bed and like there's no, like where do you draw the line? You don't, it's like this big gray thing that, you know, when you, when you see it, um, but if you think about.
Delivering those memories and that experience. And then speaking either specifically, or generally about curators, ownership, partners, they're independent hoteliers, how is curator helping them deliver hospitality to their guests?
Jennifer Barnwell: Well, first and foremost, hopefully we're helping to sustain them. I I'm honestly, I mean, I can't say there's an example where, you know, someone's on the [00:25:00] precipice of like bankruptcy or anything, but I think, especially in the case of independent hotels, um, there tends to be generalities about them that aren't even true.
I mean, independent hotels are so lovely first and foremost and. They can be very profitable compared to, you know, any other competitor concept that you want to say. And there's plenty, you know, bigger is always easier if you're some kind of big hotel like us, it's easy for me to say, but you know, there is capital available for independent hotels, like in specific locations, you know, with specific story behind them.
So first and foremost, most, I mean, I love independent hotels. So if we can create some kind of vehicle that helps sustain them and be more profitable and they continue to be a sizable portion of our industry, it just like makes me so happy. Cause I feel like they are so special. And then to kind of piggyback off of what you were saying earlier, [00:26:00] if we can take and I, I probably shouldn't say, you know, any monotony out of.
The operation of a, you know, an independent hotel or ownership that being like all the agreements and the contracts and the vendors, and, you know, that whole process, which I don't find monotonous at all. It's like super exciting. When we look into all these potential vendor partners and we have conversations with them and, you know, we can get them to be, um, part of our, again, vehicle, if it is independence, if we can take some strain away from that, if we can just, you know, actually even take it over for hotels so they can spend their time on all the gate, you know, more of their time on the guest facing aspects of what they do, whether it's design, you know, capital expenditures, all the things, the guests notice, guest service, um, you know, staffing the hotel appropriately, bringing in all the business, [00:27:00] you know, that they want to have at their hotels, uh, you know, focusing on revenue management and channels and distribution.
Spend more time on that and let us handle, you know, everything else, whenever a contract's coming up for expiration, call us and we'll help you figure it out. If you have this vendor that's calling you nonstop for, you know, a concierge app, send them to us, like we'll handle it, handle it for you so that you can do the things that you're the best at and what makes your hotel so special.
We don't have a say in that. And we don't want to say in that we just want you to do your thing. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And then the, so there's two things that you were saying there that I'd love to dig into. Um, I, which one should go first, I guess the first one, you said something to the effect that if an independent hotel, I'm going to mess up your words, it's done correctly, or when all, when everything lines up and you get the wind in the sails of an independent hotel, a really well [00:28:00] run, independent hotel, that's very thoughtful, delivering experience and memory.
It outperforms the whole asset class, correct?
Jennifer Barnwell: It can, it doesn't always, but it can, independence can be highly profitable and I'm not going to pit, you know, branded versus not branded, but we, I mean, I can speak from a public perspective. We have highly, highly profitable, independent hotels in our portfolio that can give, you know, any big brand that hotel, a run for their money.
Dan Ryan: Correct. And I'll just use a, I had a previous guest on, um, he has a bar called defin company's name's Dave Kaplan. So there's this. Oh, they're great. There's this independent hotel that he's a part of. I don't, I don't think they're a part of. No, no, they're definitely not, but it's called the it's called the ramble.
Um, and what's cool is it's a small hotel. It's, it's a cool hotel, but they've [00:29:00] really been thoughtful about their independence and bringing death and company in and creating this incredible, um, experience as you walk in, what's makes it a real place. And maybe that's what it's independent hotels have the ability to connect to place in a very powerful way, which brings in the,
Jennifer Barnwell: it can feel, which can be truly.
And I don't want to overuse this word. I think Bashar was the one, like if I hear anybody use the word authentic again, I'm going to throw up, but I'd be to use it in this case in a very authentic way versus someone who's just like trying like, you know, hotel in Nashville that just puts up a picture of a guitar or something like independence goes so much deeper in our so layered.
And thoughtful about their design and how they present their sense of place.
Dan Ryan: Yeah, exactly. And when you get to that word, that , but you know what for sure hates it and I get it, [00:30:00] but it's also like, I don't give me some of the other word that you can come up with because I think authenticity can also lead to apathy, right?
If you're truly who you are, you can be apathetic about trying to impress the world around you, but you're still this incredible thing that you're bringing everyone else in. So I love Bashar. I understand his issue with, with authenticity, but I th I don't, I challenge him to come up with a better, uh, a better word about it, but because authenticity can also lead to apathy and apathy also can be a good thing, because if you're truly focused on what you do.
It's you're gonna, it's like that baseball diamond in the middle of Iowa. If you build it, they will come. Right. If you, yeah. So, um, as on the profitability side, I had a conversation with the founder of Ritz-Carlton a while ago, maybe at the beginning of the pandemic and, uh, re horse Schultzey. And he [00:31:00] said to me, he said, now from pandemic forward is the time for independent hotels.
And I'm, I never, I didn't really unpack it with that. I'm trying, I want to get him on the podcast so I can talk with him about it. But I'm really curious about like what your feelings are and why he would say something like that. And he was so like, um, resolute and, and, um, clear and aligned with that statement.
Like, what are you like, what are you seeing? Is that, is that because of profitability? Is that because of. Uh, different financial models and like having to, I don't know, just, I, I don't understand what what's making that.
Jennifer Barnwell: I think that, you know, I'll preface my kind of statement with, you know, there's room for everybody.
And I truly do believe that, but I think, you know, with what we've gone through the last couple of years with, you know, being in lockdown for a certain amount of time and not traveling at all for so long, I mean, I can just talk personally, you know, [00:32:00] you've a lot of people have taken the time to reassess how they want to spend their time.
So, you know, we've been seeing for a number of months now, maybe even going back to the second half of 2021 resorts with, you know, a lot of amenities, a lot of outdoor space, huge demand for that. And that continues, you know, Pebblebrook even spoke to that a little bit on our last earnings call last week, about how our.
Luxury resorts are performing relatively to 2019 and it would like make your head spin, like how many, how much it's up in ADR in terms of hundreds of dollars. And I think that's the, you know, for a couple of reasons, people have saved a whole lot. You know, some people have saved a whole lot of money.
There's a lot of pent-up pent-up spend waiting to be spent as soon as they can. And a lot of pent up demand for traveling a lot of flexibility with traveling. And [00:33:00] if you're going to spend your time and your money with your family away somewhere, where are you going to do it? You know, are you gonna do it in some kind of plain vanilla downtown location?
Or are you going to do it where you can really spend quality time have these memories and these experiences? And I definitely think it's the latter. And luckily I have this amazing portfolio, you know, to draw from, from, from Pebblebrook that I can stay up from time to time. Even that's where I've been focused is, you know, if I'm going to go somewhere with my family, I want it to be really great.
So I wanted to have all the amenities that can possibly have and be, you know, a good experience and then, you know, some kind of a great location. So I definitely think he's right. And it is proving out, you know, on the historical stats about where people are choosing to travel to. And, you know, just to use Pebblebrook as another [00:34:00] example, I mean, we've spent, you know, significant capital dollars at all over resorts, knowing that, you know, we have this upper upscale, you know, practically luxury lodge up in Washington state.
And we've spent a lot of time and money on adventure parts with zip lines and ax throwing and these amazing unique Treehouse accommodations. And we've added a pool at know our Shamina resort. And we basically converted it from a convention hotel to this wonderful resort, you know, instead, and we're kind of doing that throughout the portfolio because people do want to spend a longer amount of time somewhere when they travel and he needs stuff for them to do when,
Dan Ryan: and also I think what's cool about that.
And I think why I'm always so fascinated by hotels. I mean, they really have each hotel has the opportunity to be a very, [00:35:00] so many different channels of revenue and which has really tied to different experience. And yeah, you can look at the FNB. The food, you could look at the beverage, you could look at the resort, fear, whatever, but then you can also put in an Alpine site, like hearing ax, throwing all that.
Like you can basically with an idea, a creative idea, you can, you have a captive audience and if done well, you're going to give them a cool experience that they haven't done. And it's also going to drive revenue. Right.
Jennifer Barnwell: And you know, not to even, you know, mentioned flexibility. So flexibility is huge. If you are truly independent and you're boutique, you're small in you're the master of your domain, right.
As you can say, like you can change the way you staff your hotel, the kind of, you know, revenue and distribution channels you use. I mean, you can really kind of change that on a dime. If you want to, including how your hotel looks, how your hotel feels. Do you want to add this amenity or that amenity, you know, of course, capital dependent if you have the capital to spend, but [00:36:00] if you're part of.
You know, a much different organization, like a big brand, that stuff takes a long time in terms of getting decisions made and kind of trickling, you know, brand standards trickling down. So independence can so much more so be on the forefront of all of this because they can pivot and make changes quickly.
I'm
Dan Ryan: also like for all of the, I'm going back to these multiple channels of, of revenue and experience within, uh, within a hotel independent specifically. Um, if you were to look at the value that curator adds, um, if you were to put them into buckets, right? Right. So revenue management, GPO, um, savings on commissions, um, paid to third parties.
Like what's the biggest bucket that you guys are. Like, if you look at that bottom line improvement that you're doing, where is, where is the biggest mover? I always believe in the 80 20 rule, but like which one of those buckets has the [00:37:00] biggest impact to your clients?
Jennifer Barnwell: So partners and the initial focus of curator has been really more B2B than B2C.
So I'll get to the B2C in a second, but from the B2B, meaning the program offerings we have today that our members can take advantage of, you know, if you want to kind of look at what are kind of 10 to 15 programs that save the most money, um, definitely in that group is the tech stack. So it's all these systems, whether it is our central reservations deal, um, or it's our PMs deals or it's, um, our RMS deals and we have, um, some other technologies.
So it's coupled with. Yes, we've made really good deals that, you know, other people haven't been able to get and better than, you know, even Pebblebrook has seen, but you also get the benefit of these very [00:38:00] close vendor relationships. So we fully vet them. We actually have kind of problem solving calls with them and push them to make sure their it systems continue to evolve.
And if we do see any issues that need to be fixed, that there's a plan for fixing them. And in some cases, um, I mean, we're never going to say, oh, you should just switch to all of our vendors. Cause you'll save all this money. It has to truly be about fit. So we do truly fine. And this is happening in the Pebblebrook portfolio.
You can change your sales and catering software to something that is actually a better fit for your hotel and so much easier for your ineffective for your team to use. So you're going to save money. You're going to have better relationships with your vendors and ultimately, hopefully you're going to have better fit with the system or the product that you're using and your people will be more effective.
Um, and then it [00:39:00] kind of from there, I mean, believe it or not credit card processing have a lot of savings. If you know, it's something that, you know, we kind of figured out a number of years ago, but when we kind of underwrite savings for some of these member hotels, it can be very significant. I mean, just thousands of dollars.
Um, and then it really is kind of dependent on the hotel. Some hotels, you know, like the smaller may not even have some of our offerings. So it's all about, do you want to have a labor management system? Will that actually bring value to you in some way? Do you want to have this revenue management system?
Do you want to have, um, do you want to use these channels to bring in business that you don't use today? So it's like potential for incremental business, but it's really the it and the credit card processing. And depending on the hotel, like AAV and parking, those kinds of things can resolve in some pretty big numbers for the hotels.
And then on the other one, I'm really quick on the other part of your question, [00:40:00] we curator is guided by what we call our board of advisors. So it's the CEOs of all of our founding members. So, you know, John generation Pebblebrook, but also the CEOs of noble house Davidson, Sage provenance, springboard, um, and vice-versa, and they help guide the direction, you know, pebble or curator needs to go, including, you know, input from our members.
Um, today, our website is more of a referral site. So we want the word to be out about curator and the kind of hotels. We have these amazing hotels in our portfolio, come to the website, see what we have to discovery website. If you like it, you know, you can go directly to that hotel's website and book. So it's more of like a referral site now, but we're kind of inching towards more of a, B to C you know, situation where led by our board of advisors and our members.
Will there be a [00:41:00] loyalty component to curator? Will there be, you know, some kind of easier, easier booking process, a referral process, or, you know, there's a number of things we can start investigating, I think over the next year or two. Oh, so
Dan Ryan: then not just in saving costs in all those, the buckets that we talked on, the cost side, you're going to actually, at some point be able to have.
Uh, to the revenue side and on the booking. Oh, so almost like
Jennifer Barnwell: that resume. I don't know if that's what it, that's what the membership wants now. And we do hear that a lot from the members. Do you have anything related to loyalty or referrals or can, you know, can you drive bookings for me? And that's something that we need to investigate.
Cause we're hearing from the members that they're interested in
Dan Ryan: it. Yeah. People love loyalty programs, which actually,
Jennifer Barnwell: or guests, we should call it more like guests recognition. Like we're not going to have a points program, actually being more creative
Dan Ryan: as you're, as we're talking about points of reference or whatever we want to call it.
We have a mutual friend in Cameron sprints who [00:42:00] just moved from Skift over to the points guy. Maybe that he'd be a good resource for you to talk to because I also, you think about the points. I remember falling them years and years and years ago when it was like the guy, I forget his name. I used to know it, but he, it was all these strategies on maximizing miles and this and that, but that's a really sticky, um, way to retain customers.
Right?
Jennifer Barnwell: Yeah. I mean, if you can capture, I mean, that customer data, you know, is your gold and that's what, you know, you need to capture that because that gets data. So you can market to them directly. I mean, no one would turn down more direct bookings. Right. You'd be crazy to them. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Well, it's also, you know, and this is a thing that comes up a lot in conversations as well.
The customer data is gold. I get it. But it's so often that people don't know what to do with it when they have that data and all these conversations with people, it's like, God, if [00:43:00] I could walk into my room and it could be set to 64 degrees or whatever I like, or ESPN could be playing, or they would know that I like a espresso martini when I check in, like, I'm not saying.
Just sometimes, no, I don't like them or espresso martini
Jennifer Barnwell: and your
Dan Ryan: desk, which is my Eloqua LaCroix. Um, but I feel like we're, we haven't yet bridged the gap on the customer data and like helping drive hospitality. And I think sometimes it's just really a simple act of thoughtfulness that, that bridges it.
But I feel like we're not, we're, we're missing the, the trees for the forest.
Jennifer Barnwell: Yeah. I mean, in, in there in lies, why, you know, our industry continues to be very challenging. Evolve very quickly in our it, for sure. And, um, a lot of it is just so disjointed. I mean, [00:44:00] you know, you've got a PMs system with some vendor and then you've got an RMS system with someone else.
And the CRS was someone else in a CRM with someone else and a sales and catering system with someone else. And they all generally are supposed to talk to each other, but you also need, you know, a team of people that are going to put the time and effort into collecting that data and making those notes, like, you know, so-and-so, you know, she didn't, she's not, you know, do you look at your check-ins and someone's coming in and you know, it was going to get in really late and do something nice for them.
Cause you know, they're not opening their door and lay in bed until like midnight or something like it's, it's partially maybe training culture and then partially setting your team up for success with the right tools. Which we still have a little ways to go in our industry with the it side, I think.
Dan Ryan: Totally. And it's making that T more H technology, more human. [00:45:00] Um, you said you said something that really surprised me at the beginning of the conversation and your growth. Now that you're, again at 90 properties is 50% more or less resort. 50% urban to me. I have yet to see the urban, uh, The rebound that I think we're all waiting for.
I think a lot of that has to do with business travel, but maybe that's that other idea of bleisure or business and leisure where independent hotels are not necessarily catering to the business travel traveler, but also the family or the, the young couple that wants an experience in a city somewhere.
What are your thoughts on that? The, on the grow guy, I guess maybe equal ish growth between resort and urban, cause that's super surprising and reassuring to hear.
Jennifer Barnwell: Yeah, I mean, for, for us, it, you know, it's not necessarily tied to hotel performance. I mean, if you're, you know, over a resort that's running 95%, you know, you still want to be more efficient and more [00:46:00] profitable as much as well.
The urban hotel that has like 30% occupancy probably wants is maybe a teeny bit more focused on profitability, but it's important to them too. So for our business model hotel, it's just not really tied to hotel performance. You know, I can tell you what, what I'm seeing, um, urban is starting to come back and Pebblebrook spoke to a little bit of that on our earnings call too, because for Pebblebrook, it was really, the laggards have continued to be San Francisco and Washington DC, but there's a little bit, um, of some optimism perhaps, cause we were laying out some stats about what the occupancy in those for us in those two markets had been over the previous three months, of course, the previous quarter.
And there is some uptick in both San Francisco and DC with San Francisco continuing to lag. Um, we're also in Chicago, you know, which is a little bit challenging, but you know, LA is kind of, you know, looking pretty good. [00:47:00] Um, but I think there's no doubt. They're still lagging behind. I mean, our resorts are kind of sold out every day.
We get the high rates. And if you didn't book your summer travel already, you may be in for a shock.
Dan Ryan: Well, you know, also after having just been to Europe, I think the drive to destinations in the U S are more reassuring and solid for, let's just say a family demographic as well, because you know, you're out there, you're running around, you're seeing all these things, you're going to these crowded museums.
And then it's like, oh shit, I have to take that. COVID test to come back to the United States. And like, it's a nail biter. And we were like, oh my goodness, what happens if one of us fails, who's going to stay behind like how we didn't actually think about that. But I feel like a lot of other travelers are probably thinking about that.
That are driving them to stay
Jennifer Barnwell: domestic. Oh yeah, yeah, no doubt. I mean the inner, I mean, that's part of why San [00:48:00] Francisco is still such a big laggard. I mean, it was so dependent. Not only on the big kind of super conference demand, but also so much international. So it's going to be awhile. Um, I think until the inter I mean, I keep seeing headlines about, oh, as an American airlines wants them to stop having to do the inbound international COVID tests.
I mean, I don't know what's going to come of it, but instill some until some of those restrictions let up, you know, the big major cities in the us for international inbound may continue to lag, but I don't think there's going to be any shortage of demand within the domestic us, for Americans to travel because we already see a lot of it.
Um, hopefully the airlines can figure it out. Um, I don't know if they're gonna, you know, and also the question is it's like, you don't have to dig into the stats too. Cause you know, there may be some big headline that, you know, some airlines are cutting back capacity. But [00:49:00] they're cutting back based on what, based on what they thought they might offer, or is it really based on a historical number?
It's usually the former it's like, well, they thought they were going to offer all these flights and now, you know, maybe they're cutting back a little bit because of staffing. So you don't, you know, you kind of have to dig deeper than just reading the headlines to see if it's really going to have an impact on our hotels or
Dan Ryan: not.
But, but the exciting thing going to international also is I'm seeing a lot of the airlines come up with these really cool new roundtrip routes to like off the beaten path cities internationally. That is really exciting as a family who travels, like I love going to see new places. So, but I think with San Francisco, the, I see some people that are making some big bets in San Francisco.
Well, because San Francisco is a total shit show, literally right now, literally. Um, but also. It's I think, and having a four, one, five cell phone number that I could never really get rid of. I like having a [00:50:00] bit of San Francisco in my pocket. Um, I think it's one of the most beautiful cities topographically, um, not just the skyline, but just how it's situated in the, in the country and probably the world that it's always going to draw people.
So again, it's just a matter of getting that, right. I love San Francisco. We'll come back and come back strong. I
Jennifer Barnwell: think so too. I mean, don't get me wrong. I love it too. I've was working as an asset manager with our Pebblebrook hotels there for like 10, 11 years. And my husband has ties there, you know, from his college days and family there.
And I mean, we even take our daughters now four and a half. We've already, I mean, we've taken her there three times, but we put a pause on it just because, I mean, I saw change over the last number of years just in terms of lack of cleanliness. Listen. I lived in New York for 14 years. I feel like I can handle anything, but I don't want to be pushing a stroller through union square anytime soon.
Cause it is kind of gritty and dirty and unsafe, but they're going to figure [00:51:00] they got to figure it out.
Dan Ryan: Oh, they will. There's the, the, the demand is there and it'll figure it out. Okay. So then as thinking about the, figuring it out and kind of all the growth that you've had to now and where you're going, um, what's exciting you most about the future?
Jennifer Barnwell: I think what's exciting me most about the future is, um, our potential prospects, honestly, this whole kind of ride I'll call it of curator. It's been a huge pivot for me professionally to go to dislike, you know, focused on this portfolio of, you know, 10 or six or five hotels in the cities there. And, and, you know, that's really it too.
This reopening, you know, my mind and my career to the whole universe, you know, of hotels primarily here in the U S but hopefully at some point internationally in terms of it's, I just didn't honestly track it that [00:52:00] closely until now, but there's so, I mean, there's hundreds and hundreds and maybe, you know, there's thousands of independent hotels here in the U S and getting back to our earlier part of the conversation about Kimpton, these incredibly inspiring and creative, small hotel companies that are running these independent hotels are operating these independent hotels and creating their own small brands that has been really inspiring to me.
So it's kind of, you know, multi-phase, it's this whole, um, um, reawakening for me of all this, you know, creativity and independence and boutiqueness, you know, in our industry, And then getting to them and actually being able to tell them about curator, because I do think it would just be so amazing for all of us, you know, to come together and benefit each other.
So that's what kind of, I think about a lot and kind of gets me excited when I wake up every day. If can we turn this into [00:53:00] something that's, you know, at least 2, 3, 400 hotels and all these interesting, unique, independent boutique properties all over the U S
Dan Ryan: you know, the other thing that I've enjoyed hearing you say, and I think you just said it again, the 2, 3, 400 hotels, right?
You, on the other side of that coin, you look at all of the independent hotels that are so exciting that you're uncovering every day. There's not a million of them. Right. And I think a really cool thing about, um, the value proposition is as you guys get to your, what your scale is, you're really taking.
The best of the best of independence and letting them exhibit that passion and almost in a way it's like you're freeing them up with all that other alphabet soup of everything so that they can focus on being
Jennifer Barnwell: passionate. Yeah. E it's not going to change a thing about your DNA, who [00:54:00] you are, um, what you create, it's just helping you make your asset more valuable.
Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Um, another thing when I spoke to you at the early stages of the pandemic, um, this, I was like, wow, it's the curator? Is this, is this just coming out of the pandemic? Is this a new idea? And I believe you said, no, this has been percolating for a really long, for a long time. It's just, we were planning on doing it.
Pandemic happened and here we are. But it also, I think. Uh, for a lot of hoteliers to be open, to have these conversations, because in many of the urban locations, especially it's slower and they, you can build those relationships with them and they have time to take the call. How are you seeing that?
Jennifer Barnwell: I think, um, I think that there's some of there's some of that I'll tell you, initially, there's so much interest and people [00:55:00] understand the idea and they get it, but there is still a really big drain on resources or lack of resources, you know, at the hotel level.
And even, you know, someone at the management company's corporate level staffing is really hard. And, you know, we've been echoing that a lot, you know, in our internal conversations, you know, with, with Pebblebrook in our, in our board and, you know, um, in our earnings calls, You know, we have amazing teams of managers at our hotels that are doing every job in the hotel.
Like they haven't, you know, maybe ever had to do that before. But, you know, we like in key west, we have GMs that have to, you know, service the rooms because we're so we're so short-staffed, so I think. There isn't a shortage of people kind of understanding curator and appreciating and in, um, feeling that it could be a good fit for them.
But sometimes we do [00:56:00] get caught up with the resources like we need, like I was saying earlier, it's an active endeavor. Like we need someone to make curator at priority, so we can kind of further the conversations and get them signed up and, you know, actually get some movement on these contracts and agreements.
So I think it's not the lack of understanding or interest in it, but we still have in our industry a pretty big lack of resources that we have to, we've been able to overcome. Obviously we have a really good group of hotels and curator already, but that's kind of how this up, we would be even bigger today.
If there were more resources in our
Dan Ryan: industry. And are you, as far as the product offering that curators have. Are you guys getting into, um, human resources or recruiting at all? Does that factor in there? Is it
Jennifer Barnwell: more systems and the one was effective at it? We would partner with them. It's like, um, you know, that's like an offhand way to say it, but you know, whether you're, um, a [00:57:00] third party recruiter or you're, you know, a temp agency, everybody is struggling to find, you know, manpower, um, and employees to fill positions.
So we just have to think of, you know, other creative ways to do whatever we can. And it's like, you know, even, you know, there's a section on the bla website. Now our members can post whatever jobs it's just like post everywhere. You can. And, you know, HLA has organized some citywide job fairs for, you know, all the hotels in the city come together and do these job fairs.
And you know, some of that is starting to take hold and help, but it's a problem. Everybody. So I, you know, really partnered with anybody on it because it's challenging for everybody.
Dan Ryan: Um, yeah. I, uh, and again, it's, it's kind of like, it's like a catch 22, right? You're you got the general manager, who's making a bed, taking a [00:58:00] reservation and checking someone in all at the same time or the housekeeper.
Jennifer Barnwell: And I'm like, what PMs do you use? What RMS do you use? So will you send me your contract? And he's like, wow.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Or, you know, in so many cases like, um, the room attendants are doing the same thing, they're checking people in, they're taking a reservation, they're making a bed and cleaning all hands on
Jennifer Barnwell: deck.
Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And I want that to ease at some point. So yeah, whatever we can do there, um, you like so many leaders in our industry went to. I
Jennifer Barnwell: did a long time ago.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Um, but I think from all the experience that you've gained on the hotel to, I guess, development cap, X side to what you're doing now at, at curator and really helping, um, deliver value.
Um, if you were to go back and you studied, uh, [00:59:00] hospitality, correct? Right. Okay. So what, what dormitory were you in freshman year?
Jennifer Barnwell: Barry doesn't exist today and west campus. They knocked them all down and built.
Dan Ryan: Oh, I did a summer program there and stayed in a U hall. That's what
Jennifer Barnwell: I was just going to say. It was one of the new halls.
So I guess there was six of them and we were in new hall six, but it had a name. It was called Sperry hall.
Dan Ryan: Oh, I had like a, it was like, it was a year 1918, or I don't even remember
Jennifer Barnwell: where I lived freshman year. That whole
Dan Ryan: little spot. Oh, good. So, okay. So let's say you that the gen of today you teleport yourself down.
It's 10:00 PM. You're waiting in line at the hot truck was at the hot truck? Yes. Okay. So you're standing in front of your younger self at the hot truck. And you're you have the opportunity to give yourself some advice? What did, what advice do you give yourself? Maybe it's 2:00 AM
Jennifer Barnwell: it's way later than I stay up these days.[01:00:00]
You know, I would say, just go for it. I mean, I think that. It's really hard. I mean, depending on what you want in life, um, work really hard and always raise your hand to work on new projects and take on new opportunities, um, and offer your questions and your opinions. Look for a mentor, whoever, you know, is the CEO or the president of your company go in and talk to that person and ask them questions.
I mean, I, um, I did a lot of that. I would say, like, I was just like hungry. I like always wanted to work on the new projects and it didn't matter. Like if I worked late, I kind of soccer. I don't think I sacrificed anything. Cause I'm super happy now and have a beautiful family, but I worked really hard early in my [01:01:00] career and I, I loved it.
Like I was interested in and I was very analytical and I learned so much about contracts. Even once in awhile, you know, I'd be on deal. Maybe like, are you the attorney? And I'd be like, oh, that's so nice of you to say, but no, I'm not an attorney because I was given a lot of autonomy to really learn things and, um, dive into deals.
But I think looking back, I probably could have spoken up more. I could have asked more questions and really seeking out a mentor earlier on in my career. Maybe would've, um, helped me even more. So that would kind of be the direction. Just like be more vocal. It's never a bad thing. I don't think there's any bad questions.
All the young people I work with today, I do one-on-ones with them. I say, if I bring you to a meeting, I want you to say something like, that's the whole point. Like I will invite you to everything. You know, almost everything I do. You can listen in. That's the way you're going to learn. It might push back.[01:02:00]
A few hours of, you know, other things you have to accomplish, but you're going to learn so much being in these meetings and speak up and travel with me and the seeking out. And we do mentorship. We have always been Pebblebrook. We always match up the youngest people with, you know, older people like me to mentor them.
So they have another outlet other than their direct report. They also have mentors outside of your organization too. So I think that is really important. And I would have done that. If I had more foresight back
Dan Ryan: then experienced not older,
Jennifer Barnwell: they don't call women experience. They call it the older.
I'm going to use that from now on I'm experienced
Dan Ryan: experience. Yeah, my gray, it keeps coming up. I don't know if it's, if it's stress age, I don't see any, um, Jen, this has been so fantastic and
Jennifer Barnwell: I love
Dan Ryan: it. Yeah. If people wanted [01:03:00] to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to connect with
Jennifer Barnwell: you? Well, our website is curator, hotels and resorts.com, super easy.
Um, but you can always email me at J Barnwell at curator, hotels, and resorts. Happy to talk to anybody anytime about anything.
Dan Ryan: Great. And we'll also put your LinkedIn stuff up in there and we'll link to that. We'll put, put all that in the show notes. So, uh, be sure to check. So once again, Jen, thank you.
Thank you. Thank
Jennifer Barnwell: you. Right. We
Dan Ryan: were perfect. No edits necessary. This is like in what's it called? Like in the, in the camp it's in the can nothing to do in post. Um, thank you so much, Dan, but I do want to say thank you. Thank you for being a part of my journey. Um, into this whole podcast thing, because I just, I love it.
I wish I could do this all the time. Um, I'm always learning and you know, you're helping with my curiosity and inspiring me. So thank
Jennifer Barnwell: you. Oh, thank you. And your kids were quiet, so [01:04:00]
Dan Ryan: yeah, there were other people banging around in there. You can hear me. I was texting frantically shut up.
Jennifer Barnwell: Um,
Dan Ryan: but also I want to thank our listeners also.
Um, we're growing and growing and I hope that this conversation has shown you another angle of our hospital. Awesome hospitality industry. And if you did learn something or maybe think a little bit different, it's all word of mouth. So please pass it along and we'll see you and hear you next time. Thanks.
Thanks Dan.