Defining Hospitality

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Dan Ryan: hello and welcome. Today's guest is skilled at corporate law and real estate. He has a unique journey through our hospitality industry. He's an industry thought leader as well. He is the CEO at mountain shore properties, ladies and gentlemen. Steven Wendell. Welcome
Stephen Wendell: Steven. Hey, thanks. Thank you for having me Dan, excited to be here.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And thank you so much for your time. Uh, before we get into our conversation, I wanted to just kind of take a few minutes to tee up, like how we came to be here, talking to each other and sh and sharing the ideas, uh, that you have in your experience, because. [00:01:00] I was working on a project with, uh, Kate rower from row creative out of Philadelphia.
It was a, it's a really cool boutique hotel, um, in Louisville. And she, I was asking her about like who the players are on the project. And she said she just spoke so highly of you in your group and mentioned that it was your first boutique hotel. Yeah. And when I went to your website, You guys have so many properties, mostly on the select service side.
Right. And to see this as your first journey into, uh, a boutique slash independent hotel. I wanted to dig into that with you. Because at the beginning of the pandemic, I was talking with hors Schultz, who is a founding member of Ritz Carlton. And he mentioned that now is the time for independent hotels. So to me, it's been this kind of.
There's been this hum or undercurrent of like, why is that? Like, I've always been in this space, but I wanted to hear from someone who's seen the sea change and like, understand what [00:02:00] the story is, so right. And that's, that's where we are. So I'd love for you to tell us like how you got yeah. To making this shift and why it's so exciting for
Stephen Wendell: you.
Yeah, no, thank you. Um, it's a, it's a long evolution and certainly starts from almost the day I was born cuz I do this work with my father. Who's, who's been in the hospitality industry, uh, since 1983, he opened the Hampton Inn in West Virginia and the town next to where I, I was born. and, um, that was his first journey into hospitality.
He's a CPA. And, uh, he did this hotel as kind of a, a, a deal for the town. And then, um, one of the partners that he met that was managing, it was the guy named Clarence Kerr, uh, who was working for American motor ends, came over and said, let's start a company together. And then, you know, the mid eighties, they started this company and they went out and bought a Sheridan and converted it to a holiday Inn.
And then. As that time was happening. [00:03:00] Uh, Hampton Inn was launching and they did the 13th Hampton Inn in the country in a little roadside hotel in Gastonia, North Carolina. And so that's what started the hospitality journey. I was born in 83, so they literally opened the, their first hotel the month I was born.
Um, and they did that. And that's also the year
Dan Ryan: that. Return of the Jedi came out too. So yes,
Stephen Wendell: I got you an amazing, you know, movie that's often, uh, overlooked in the star wars trilogy. Yes. So I, I agree. One of my favorites, um, the, so then they, they sold seven of eight hotels in 94 to a REIT, and then they kind of kept going.
Um, and, and as we went into the two thousands and I was going to college and came out and went to law school and came out in, um, 2010 during the recession. I, uh, was working in Philadelphia, actually on secondment for my law firm. Proscower rose in New York, was working for the Philadelphia Eagles and I was driving from, uh, downtown to the [00:04:00] stadium and, and said, there should be some more real estate projects done in this city.
And I kind of. Did a very small in urban infill, you know, three apartments over retail project. And that kind of started my journey in real estate was more entrepreneurial. And, uh, as I was working at the law firm, no offense to my colleagues at proscower, but it wasn't my favorite job in the world. And so I called my dad one day and said, you know, I think we could.
Do some of this real estate stuff that you've been doing, non hospitality. And then on the hotel side, let's take all your relationships that you have with Marriott and Hilton. And let's build like really nice select service hotels in college towns. I mean, that, that really was the thesis. And so when you look at our website, you've seen, uh, Hampton and in Tallahassee, a residents in, in Charlottesville, you know, secondary tertiary markets that have.
Really good demand generators that aren't going anywhere, except for during a pandemic when kids are not in school. But, um, and so we've done that over the last 10 years. We've also [00:05:00] developed a really great relationship with Hyatt. I think built four or five of their hotels. And so that kind of led us into the pandemic.
We've also sold a lot. We were kind of net sellers of those hotels. And so the first step I would say was me just learning hospitality. What, you know, I knew it as a guest, but I didn't know it as a developer. And it's an extremely difficult business. I think it's. Probably the hardest real estate business to do.
It's certainly on the operational side, there's just so many variables. Um, and then when you throw in a restaurant on top, it's, it's even harder. Um, and as we get into the pandemic, I was already wanting to do a boutique project. And so we had bought, um, 21 acres of land and Catskill New York to do. 26 log cabin, 24 motel room Tavern on 21 acre project.
And that was kind of bought right before the pandemic. We bought it in February of 20, which was a good time to buy land in the Hudson valley. Um, as it, as it turns out. And, [00:06:00] you know, everybody had time to pause in COVID, especially the first couple months. Um, we sold a big hotel in Nashville, right on March 13th, Wednesday, you know, the wow NBA shut down that night, the world kind of shut down, Tom Hanks got COVID.
So, you know, that was really, uh, the marker and we were lucky to sell that asset, um, and then turn around and have seven hotels the next morning that were, you know, facing empty, empty rooms and, um, You kind of had time to think you were dealing with a lot of fires, but my, my thought process at that time was that I really wanna.
You know how much longer you're gonna develop, how much longer life is. Like, I wanna develop the projects that I really want to stay in. Mm-hmm um, and so those are boutique projects. I'm fortunate enough to have traveled to a lot of great hotels across the country, across the world. Thanks to my wife who has shown me, um, You know, some of the cooler parts of hospitality that I probably wouldn't know about.
Dan Ryan: I think we might have that in [00:07:00] common because although I'm in the industry, my wife is always looking and coming up with some really great. Um, experiences for our family.
Stephen Wendell: Yeah, absolutely. And so around the same time I was, um, connected right before the pandemic with, uh, Miranda Mancuso who, uh, has worked at standard for, for a very long time, um, since the early Andre Belos days.
And we really just hit it off and had a great chemistry and talking about hospitality and what, what hospitality is and where it's going. And, uh, we had this project in Louisville that was. Possible before the pandemic. And we had looked at it as a branded hotel, maybe either a soft brand or, or a lifestyle brand.
And I kind of was, you know, learning more about how standard had kind of acquired bunkhouse. And I was such a huge fan of bunkhouse totally as a guest and been all the properties in Austin. And I said, you know, NewU feels like south Congress street does or did you know, 20 years [00:08:00] ago or 15 years ago. And I think it would be a great opportunity to the extent that you guys are growing or looking to grow.
I know ground up is not really what you always want to do, but I think that if we do it together, It could be a really cool opportunity. This, this site is next to rabbit hole distillery. The founders of which are part of our partnership group, um, obviously knew lose the hot neighborhood in Louisville.
And I think it's a great town and there's a great story there. And so they got on board. And so that was kind of project too, which will, you know, camp town, the Catskill project and hotel Genevieve, the Louisville project are kind of going on simultaneously. It's been really humbling to learn everything I didn't know about hospitality, which there is a lot of decision making that goes into doing a boutique property.
Uh, and so it's, it's been fun. And
Dan Ryan: on that front, on that front, I have like, I have a couple of fun questions and serious questions, so awesome. Number, number one. [00:09:00] Eagles. Why don't you call them the Eagles?
Stephen Wendell: yeah. Sorry. Uh, the birds is probably what I affectionately refer to them as, and, and okay. I like it or not.
You, you become a lifetime fan if you, if you work there. So we, I got to celebrate a super bowl with a bunch of good people that, that were still working there. That was fun. Oh, good. I, I
Dan Ryan: have a friend who used to play for. And, uh, I just went down to my first game ever down there and it was insane. They were playing the safes, uh, the saints and, um, crazy.
I was nervous if I was gonna get out of there alive. Yeah.
Stephen Wendell: It'ss a hostile environment for sure.
Dan Ryan: It's crazy. Okay. So, um, also Philly, have you met Andrew Benioff from independent lodging Congress?
Stephen Wendell: No, I haven't. I've never heard. Have you heard of him? Yeah, but I've never heard
Dan Ryan: him. Okay. So he is like Mr.
Philadelphia. So. He was also a previous guest on there and a really dear friend. So I definitely want to connect you there. I'd love to talk to him, especially, cuz I feel like you guys Venn diagram out in so many different, it's awesome in so many different ways. Um, [00:10:00] you, this is something that I, okay, so those were the fun questions.
Um, you mentioned something as you were talking about, you said something to the effect of real estate being the, the hardest asset class within commercial. Or one of the
Stephen Wendell: hardest asset classes, hospitality being the, one of the hardest asset classes.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Hospitality being one of the most I'm sorry, hospitality being one of the hardest, um, asset classes within commercial real estate.
Um, okay, so let's, there's that one I wanna unpack a little bit. Yeah. But then also I believe in everything that all of us do and what, whatever you're doing here, it's always those, I call it rookie smarts, where someone comes in with fresh perspective. And okay. It's always been done a certain way. Have we thought about it a different way?
So I, I guess number one is what makes hospitality. One of the most challenging asset classes within commercial real estate, from your perspective. Right. And then coming at it with fresh eyes and that kind of the rookie lens and like, yeah. Thinking [00:11:00] about it differently, like how do you, how did, how did your experience kind of bridge the two on your journey that you're on now?
Stephen Wendell: Yeah, that's great. I mean, the first answer is, you know, we've and the, and I can say this, cuz we do. Other non hospitality projects. We've done industrial real estate. We've done. Multi-family uh, we've done. Office office is real challenging right now. I won't, I won't sugarcoat that, but the other ones. You kind of, let's like an apartment project.
Right? I gotta build it. We're getting ready to build one in Philadelphia. We've done a bunch in Philadelphia. Okay. We design it, you know, you kind of get to a certain threshold. That's like, okay, that's okay. That appliance package works and then you do it and you put it out there, you turn it over to an operator and there's.
The operation is commoditized. I mean, there's certain ones that are better than others, but it, it is this thing. And, and certainly they're greater apartment developers than others, but you're also developing it to a cap rate cuz you know, you can finance it at a certain rate and you can sell it at this other rate.
And it's just really, [00:12:00] uh, predictable. And, and that's why there's people pay more lower cap rates for them because it's more predictable and it's easier to finance and all those things. But with hotels, you know, just take a, a, a, you know, a college town, one I'm still going branded on a Hampton end. So there's all these things that are defined for you, but you have to deal with a lot of local politics people, you know, if you want to get into a really good site, which is what we were trying to do and all these opera and all these things, there's, there's more stakeholders.
The university is often the stakeholder. And so. There's just a lot more to navigate and it's a lot more controversial. Like what type of hotel are you gonna do? What is it, you know, how are the rates gonna charge? And so there's a lot more that goes into that. And then the operational aspect of it is, you know, you rent an apartment, it's there for a year.
You rent it again. You know, you don't rent one of your rooms on a given night. You never have a chance to rent it again. And, and that is an everyday kind of recreation of the business moment. You take it even further [00:13:00] into boutique hospitality and it's just, the stakes are even higher because now you're trying to show something that's unique.
Something that you think the guest, uh, will like. And often now, if you're doing it correctly, you want to build something that your local population is proud of. And so threading that needle to create something that locals really care about want and support, but the tourists and. Really can also love and appreciate, and they all can kind of experience it together.
It's just really, really hard. And then add all of the financial risks and trying to make a return for your investors and making sure they're longer term oriented. All of those things put together just in my mind, make hospitality, the hardest thing to do, but is to quote another movie, you know, league of their own.
I think Jimmy Dugin was talking to Dotty when she was quitting and said, there's no crying in baseball. she? He said, The the hard is what makes it great. So, you know, I think that that's, that's, you know, I complain about it a [00:14:00] lot. Um, but obviously the challenge is what is, what is fun to try to tackle. And I think if you do it correctly, that's what the guests really, um, appreciates on the other side.
Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And for, from my experience also, um, Um, I've always lived at the last line item of a real estate development budget. So it's FFF and E. Um, and what I found just from these conversations, just friends in the world, um, in hospitality, in particular, especially on the boutique side, that line item and most real estate, our commercial real estate budgets.
It's it's down there, but it becomes a much heavier. Line item in hospitality, because again, you're creating this built environment that will help cement memories and a lot more thought and, and, and execution has to go into that. And it, it makes some people want to steer away from it because it's, it's such an, a, a heavy upfront capital expenditure.
Stephen Wendell: Yeah, for [00:15:00] sure. And. And often it's too, it's challenging for the designers, uh, because it's the one that comes in last. And so you're always trying to VE but value engineering for those that don't know the abbreviation, um, and get that cost down. But it, it, it really is a balance. And I think what's exciting about what we're doing and what I hope will end up being a reason that we're successful in what we're doing is that we're bringing some tension.
To this design process from the select service world, I E we don't need to spend $250,000 for high speed internet if we can buy it for 150. Right. Right. And so a lot of times, a lot of the early days kind, kind of boutique projects as we call them today, some of them were vanity projects and there wasn't a lot of kind of cost conscious decision making going on.
But what. The era that we're in to go back to your, to your quote about that. This is the time for independent hotels. It's not only independence, it's managed hotels like with bunkhouse, which is [00:16:00] independent with a managed partner that has a brand name and then Marriott, Hilton, and IHG all understand this.
And they're creating soft brands where, whether it be Curio or, or tapestry, you know, autograph for tribute and all of those ones. And whether it's Kimpton where it's really a hard brand, but it's really known for being boutique hospitality. All of that is happening and that everyone's in the game. And then you add these beautiful Airbnb experiences that are, you know, a whole different world of hospitality.
And so it really kind of crosses the gamut. The stakes are higher, but I do believe on the other side of this, we've seen the res of the last 10 years gobbling up the select service products that are really nice, but this is the future of hotel and, um, the stakes are higher. So you. When we go to build something, I want to build something that in 30 years is the same.
It's gonna have a new evolution, but that hotel will still be here. It's not gonna have an end of life franchise where it then has to go be something else. I want it to continue to [00:17:00] evolve. And it be the greatest achievement. If one of the hotels that we've dorked on now was still around when, when I'm not, you know, that would be really amazing.
Dan Ryan: Okay. So as I'm hearing you say that, like I we're, we're scratching into the passion of. Of why you guys are ma have made this shift and are making this shift. Right. So keeping with that and the feeling that you're, that I'm picking up as you're speaking right there, like, and also through your, not, not a rookie anymore, but through this fresh, um, lens, like how do you define hospitality as you see it now through this lens?
Stephen Wendell: Yeah. I, I think as I see it now, because as in the beginning it was just. This word, that didn't really mean anything to me now that we've developed as many hotels as we've had we have. And I've been a part of, and now that I'm thinking about boutiques and now that I've traveled to all of these places, it, it really is a feeling that is impossible for me to put in words, cuz it is something that you feel when it happens and it can be a big [00:18:00] moment.
ie are just so struck by the beauty of a view of Oceanside from some unbelievable hotel. And that's kind of. cliche, but it really is the small moments which then makes developing these hotels so difficult because what really translates to the guests and gets them excited is a very, very small moment.
And it could just be how the coffee. Is carefully made and really, really good in the lobby of a hotel in the morning that makes someone so excited to wake up in that place and not just an afterthought. And so, or it, you know, it could be a well placed reading nook where someone feels so special to be able to spend two hours of the day.
And so those little tiny moments, which you have to think about all the way when you're architecturally designing a hotel, then through the interior design process. To get to the end and that translate to each guest, is, just something that's, hard to describe it, that you [00:19:00] want that feeling, with your guests as they come in.
Dan Ryan: Okay. And then, so with those small moments, How, like, from your experience on, on the pro on your, on your project runway into the boutique side, like, what are some examples of those small moments that you would like to incorporate into Louisville and into the cat skills? Whereas like on the, that's on one side of the spectrum on the other one, look, you have the, all the select service hotels with serve a need and a purpose as well.
And there are moments within those, but like, correct. What are the ones that are exciting you about your new projects?
Stephen Wendell: Let me start with the, the answer to what I was doing in the, like, I was trying to insert some of these moments into the old projects. Right. And that's part of also the reason that I'm here.
I am. So like for example, the Hyatt house we did in Tallahassee was at the foot of an art park that, you know, was a very kind of early days, Winwood in Tallahassee. That's a bad reference, but I gotta get, get it out some way. [00:20:00] And. Hyatt fought us on, uh, the beginning stages of doing local art in all the guest rooms.
It's usually very hard to get approved, but we did it an RFP process, cuz there's like 60 artists in the park and they got really excited about it. And many of them, we had dozens of responses to the RFP and ultimately Hyatt really showed through and understand what it meant to the community. And they approved the local art program and we pick six or seven artists and that's.
Happened in the hotel and it was really well received, but there was a hard tension of making that happen and it felt forced. And it was just like, Ugh, like I know this is the right decision and this is what I want to do. And so that, that's another reason that I'm, I'm here today and being like, well, what's make what, what is great.
So in camp town, a great example of that is that. We were, we inherited 26 log cabins. The first of which was built in the thirties, the last of which was built in the seventies or eighties. And they [00:21:00] were not winterized. They had, uh, not been connected to the city, uh, water and sewer and many people would've just.
Knocked them over and built cabins in the woods, new cabins in the woods, but we have painstakingly restored them and winterized them and, and preserved as much of the original detail as we possibly can. And, you know, kudos to our design team, um, at ramshackle to be able to do that. Um, and we're, you know, months away from opening this hotel and when a guest comes and they.
they walk into this cabin and feel that it has been properly painstakingly restored, which we hope they feel that moment is hospitality. Um, and, and it is. Creating this warmth that they will feel when they arrive and, you know, additional things across the property are well placed, fire pit, where, uh, people can come down and, you know, on an October evening and, and, and have a drink, um, and, you know, see [00:22:00] the property and really experience it.
And, you know, that is just a tiny detail, but that will. Many many guests stays positive, which not only you wanna do for first time guests that only come one time and that may never come back. And that's just, it is. But what you really want to do is create, repeat business that, that, that is hospitality, that, that succeeds.
And so, um, all of those moments, and then in Louisville, This is a great example of what we're doing there. So we had an original design cuz it was going to be a branded hotel. Um, by, you know, we had few lifestyle hotels in the running and before we switch and on the ground floor, as you enter the lobby to the right is a meeting room, kind of two stacked meeting rooms.
Mm-hmm traditionally what you would think about doing in the select service world. Um, And when we brought bunkhouse in, they said, you know, let's, we let's not do meeting rooms. We don't, we don't, we, we don't wanna do that for this. People can [00:23:00] meet upstairs. We can have other spaces that are more casual.
And so we redesigned those two spaces. To be two things. One is a mini marque or mini market, which we are calling the mini Maree, cuz there's a French theme going throughout the hotel. And it's basically a glorified bodega that is gonna have a service window for locals to come out. We're gonna have local provisions there, screens.
This was. All from one trip where the ladies from bunkhouse were trying to find a banana in the morning and there was nowhere to get a banana. And so we, we created this, this mini market, and then we're also doing a program where excess food from that gets donated to a local, um, shelter. And so we're, we're, we're communicate we're, we're doing something with the community on that.
And then there's a trap door. Within the mini market, uh, that goes into this 30 seat speakeasy type bar that you, you know, you know, is there, you're not there. So we created these kind of two traditional meeting spaces that were drawn that way on an original plan and [00:24:00] have created two really important moments for the hotel that will define it on the ground floor.
That will be great for guests and locals and locals who can't even experience it. And so. That to me is, are the type of things that you have to do that you should do. It's not that you have to do to be successful. Like you should do them because that's what makes the property great. That's what the right thing is to do for the community.
And therefore at the end of the day, your guests should ex should, should like that. You would hope
Dan Ryan: I awesome. And then. Uh, I also want to go back to the bunkhouse thing because I know like, obviously they're bringing a lot of great ideas to the table here. Um, and I've been down to Austin. The Funhouse organized a tour.
I've stayed in the hotels before all of this, but like just going to see all of the different properties that they have down there. Yeah. Cause it's, it's so varied and they're so awesome. Yeah. Um, like what were [00:25:00] some of your biggest inspirations from that? That was like, oh, I wanna work with these guys.
And. You know what I have trust that they're gonna come up with some great stuff for these other projects.
Stephen Wendell: Yeah. I mean, you know, just kind of original San Jose kind of, I don't know when the first time I, I was there, but you know, it just is a perfect version of that. And, and perhaps like the one that everyone looks to as the modern day turn at old motel into a really cool boutique motel and, and the muse for so many people perhaps.
Copied too much at this point. And, and, and we need to keep pushing the ball, but from just their little four pack in Austin of, if you just take that San Jose, Austin motel, Saint Cecilia now Magdaleno, which was a new build to have four incredibly distinct, very different properties within, you know, a, a teaching.
You know, walk to them yeah. With a, within a pitching wedge of each other. [00:26:00] Yeah. Or, or, or a driver, um, uh, you know, depending on how you are as a golfer, but, um, it it's really incredible how they've been able to do that. And, you know, each property speaks to a different person, but it also speaks to the same person, different ways.
I E if I'm going for a certain thing, I maybe wanna stay at San Jose if I'm going for a different thing. I maybe wanna stay at Saint Cecilia and, um, or maybe in Austin. So just knowing that they were able to, to do that. And, and I was such a fan of it. Um, I was excited about collaborating with them in this, in this place where they could have this voice, but the collaboration, we hope doesn't stop there.
My, my idea with them as they grow was to kind. Take my knowledge of the Southeast. I'm from Charleston, born in West Virginia and mid Atlantic. Um, but live in New York, um, and say do three or four unique, one of one projects with them. And so we've [00:27:00] targeted kind of Chattanooga Louisville, Nashville, Charleston, um, Atlanta, as some of those cities.
And we'll see, um, some of them will be new builds. Some of them will be renovation projects. And so. We're excited to be on that journey with them as they're growing in a new phase of their business, which is always, you know, challenging, um, to, to figure out how you, how you scale something. That's really unique and cool.
And so we have a lot of healthy discussions, I'll say where we don't always agree on what we should do, but I think that tension is what ends up creating a really great project.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I I've heard, I've also heard you. Tension a bunch of times in this conversation. And I, I feel like when you can establish that tension or conflict, it almost, um, it's like a crucible, right.
That kind of, for it helps you kind of create this marketplace of ideas that then it helps you find the path forward. Correct. And some people get [00:28:00] put off by tension or conflict, but I think if you go in with the. I don't know the intention of something great coming out of it. That's not just a Frankenstein, but like it is the book.
This is the way yeah. To quote the Mandalorian. Right. This is the way here we go. Another star wars thing, star wars. But like, I think that going into these. Uh, conversations, tension, conflict, crucibles, um, good stuff comes out of it. And if you have like-minded people that are open-minded to it, it's the ultimate laboratory.
Stephen Wendell: Right. And, and I think, yeah, it's understanding that that is just like what you said. You have to understand that that's what's going on going in. Um, and that you're all, not that the designer doesn't ever care about dollars, right? Like that's a cliche. They, they do. They're there to push the ideas and push the envelope there.
And then we have consultants and builders and architects, and everybody's coming into with an opinion. And the key of a developer I think, is [00:29:00] to be that middleman, that synthesizes it all and says, okay, we're gonna defer to the designer on this one, or we're gonna defer to the builder on that one. Um, because we think that's what the best thing is for the project and, and listening to everyone's opinion, which I'm not.
You know great at, um, but, but I try to, and so I think that that's the tension I'm talking about. It's not such a, a negative tension. It's it's a positive one.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Well, it could be construed by others as a negative one, but I think if as the conductor or the synthesizer, I think you said if you're bringing all these people in that understand that, okay, we're gonna.
We're gonna have challenges in conflict, but it's, we're all working towards this ultimate goal, I think, right? No, it's, it's a great, it's a great team. It's an incredible team building exercise and, and it's all positively intended. You
Stephen Wendell: know what I mean? Sure. For sure. 100%. Um,
Dan Ryan: okay. So why. [00:30:00] Wanted to shift gears a little bit on the development side, you, you got me thinking about a couple of things and one of them is this idea of envy. So I'm envious of your path that you're on.
Mm-hmm and I know it's one of the seven deadly. Um, but I, I do have some exciting things that I'm working on on the hotel development side. Well, we can talk about offline, cuz I think you'd love to compare notes with some of these, for sure. Some of these folks who are my really good friends. Um, but then on the other side, it's baseball.
I mean, you, uh, we baseball's come up a lot in this conversation from a league of their own, to, uh, some different kinds of pitches and fat pitches and um, I played baseball in high school. Never made it to the next level. I play softball now and now, and again, my grandfather was a pitch. For a Yankees farm team in Gainesville, where my dad was born until world war II happened.
Um, but you were lucky enough to play baseball in college. Yes. Um, [00:31:00] and I was going through your stats and it looks like your, your junior year, you hit four home runs.
Stephen Wendell: Yes. And only the only, the only spurt of power that I showed. I
Dan Ryan: know. But then that was also your best RBI season of 25 RBIS. And I think that led into your, was it your senior year?
You guys won the, um, the Ivy league championship, the Gar division championship.
Stephen Wendell: We did, we, we were fortunate enough as I say to, um, I was fortunate enough to play college, probably, you know, and it was, it was refreshing everybody that plays division one college baseball thinks they're gonna play professional baseball.
I never believed that. So it was very nice to go there with just like I have, this is where the pinnacle and my career will end. And, and I think it was able to actually enjoy the experience. And so my goal when I stepped on campus was just. Not everyone gets to travel on the baseball team. You know, mm-hmm, you, you have to make the travel squad and some people get, stay, stay at home.
So I said, I just wanna be in the dugout for every game. That was the first goal. So lucky enough to [00:32:00] do that, I didn't miss a game. And, uh, by, by senior year was, was named captain. And we were also lucky enough to have three of the four years where we won the, the league. Um, and you know, a lot of really good players that we played with.
And so those were really special moments and. Inform, you know, formed all these friendships. Um, and, and, you know, we're a small fund, right? We have friends and family investments. And so I have a, you know, a dozen or more of my teammates that, that have invested in these real estate projects and own little pieces of camp town, and hotel Genevieve, and all the projects that we've done and it, and it's been, you know, really great to continue that bond.
Dan Ryan: Um, I, I love it. And also being a division one athlete is amazing. I was lucky enough to be on my freshman year at USC. I was on the rowing team, but then wow. It lost its uh, charter varsity. Well, it lost its varsity status because, um, I think title IX, I think they, they needed to make some other women's teams [00:33:00] varsity.
So then on the balance sheet, oh wow. Of how many teams we got dropped, but it, it was Ugh. I mean, there's nothing like it, it was really, really awesome. That's that's great. But the shift of power, like. What did I, I just wanna tap into, like, you're in a game, you hit four home runs your junior year. Like, what's it like when you hit a home run in college?
Stephen Wendell: well, it was very surprising the first one. So I actually hit them in a span of two weeks. Uh, I would say my sophomore to junior year, I, uh, worked out the most. And, and I, I could, and we came like really in shape, cuz I knew I was gonna be a starter and uh, you know, had a great stretch. But the first one was actually really cool because, um, we were in North Carolina and playing UNC.
Uh, so we're getting beat by like. You know, 15 to two or something like that, we're getting crushed and it's the, the ninth inning top of the ninth. So we're, we're last up and, um, getting ready to, to lose. And it was two outs and a guy got a kind of just like scene. I hit ahead of me. So I really shouldn't even probably had [00:34:00] that at bat.
And, uh, I hit my first college home run and my coach, uh, our coach played at university of North Carolina and then played in the big leagues for a very long time. So he was a great player. So it was good to do that in front of him. Um, and then the next morning we woke up and played them again. Uh, and my first at bat, The next morning I hit another one.
Oh my gosh. And so it was like two in a row and, and that was a good stretch. And then I hit a couple more and then that was it. I was never, uh, it, I was fortunate to, to be like, uh, the seventh or eighth best hitter on the team. Cuz if I was the best hitter on the team, we would've, uh, not won mini games, but I was a good role player and, and got my fair share of hits junior and senior year.
Dan Ryan: Awesome. And then, so your senior year when you won the championship, I mean that must be another incredible cap to like your. To your college experience. What was that
Stephen Wendell: about? What was that about? Could have been, I mean, incredible. Like we had won first two years, but I didn't play that much. So it was kind of like, you got a taste of it.
And then junior year we, we didn't win. And in senior year we started out four and 19. [00:35:00] Okay. Whew. And we were one in seven in league and we had some, let's say we had a team meeting, a big team meeting that, that shook everything up. And, uh, we won 19 of our last 21 games and, and it was holy crap. And in.
Tail of two seasons, both for me personally, but for the team also. And so, um, you know, we think back on that and have incredibly fond memories because the best thing about, uh, playing in the Ivy league is that we're the first punch ticket. So the championship is the first weekend in may and the regionals don't start till June.
So if you win, you're done with school. And you get to stay on campus for a month and just practice and, and hang out with your teammates and, and have fun. And then you get to go to a regional. Uh, and so we, we finished our season in, in Arkansas and then, um, we, we actually almost, we almost won both games, but we, we came up short and then I, we flew back to college and I graduated and that was it, but it [00:36:00] was a, it was a good, it was a good way to finish.
Go out on a high note when, when it could have been a really low note. I
Dan Ryan: love it. And then, uh, so one of the things that I love about baseball, especially this year, because the Mets are on fire and , and, and then Keith Hernandez says he doesn't even want to call Phillie's game. So I hope that didn't hurt
Stephen Wendell: you.
I, I know I don't care about the Phillies, but I, I saw that. That was, that was really great. I mean, the cool thing about, uh, I'll let you finish your thought and then I'll make a note about some of the teammates that we have. Yeah. So
Dan Ryan: my. Baseball is such an incredible metaphor for life. Like whether you watch the Ken burns series and, and especially American life, like.
It's just woven into everything. Right. You can, you can draw on it for examples. And as you were saying, your, was it your junior or senior year? You started off four in 19, senior year, senior. Oh, and that was the year you won? Yeah. So, okay. What parallels can you draw from that four in 19, start to that team meeting.
To your hotel [00:37:00] experience yeah. Through the depths of COVID and coming out, like how, like, I, I want to hear about that. Can you, can you
Stephen Wendell: thread any those, I mean, both, uh, both on the operational side and then, and then even on camp down, which is just been such a humbling experience where we've had all kind of difficulties in getting through construction and, and now we see the, the end of, of when we've had a bunch.
Strikeouts. And now we've pieced together some singles and met. We might not, we might now be starting to hit some, some extra base hits and, and we're gonna see the finish line here, but on, on COVID man, I mean, April, you know, call it the end of March, we were still shaking out occupancy. People were still staying and traveling.
They didn't know whether to stay home. And then by April 1st it was the most desolate situation that you could possibly think of. Um, and. It's very similar to that. Like, you don't think there's any way to, to kind of recover, but then I think you have to then say, well, it can't be worse than this. It can't be worse than 0% occupancy.
We know [00:38:00] that at a hotel. So there's only, only a way to go is up. And then each day that you kind of saw some green shoots, you know, all these, all these analysts kept talking about green shoots through that time and we would take them and just kind. okay. We can build on that. We can build on that. Let's manage this and just kudos now to just this point in the conversation to, to the staff of all these hotels, not just ours, but throughout the country, whether it was restaurants or hotels that, that came to work.
And then obviously, you know, we, the nurses and the doctors that, that did all that, they get the, the, the kudos and the well deserved, but the, the hospitality, people just had no choice, but to come to work and stay open through a. You know, fearful time. And so I think, um, there hasn't been enough kind of applause and praise for them.
Um, and whether someone, two people were traveling that night that needed a place to stay and creating a safe, nice place for them to stay. And, [00:39:00] you know, you go back to defining hospitality. That's that's part of it. Um, so it was, uh, it was a dark time, but it, it, we were fortunate to be. Not in New York city or San Francisco or Chicago, which, you know, obviously was a whole nother kind of equation.
Um, but that we were in these markets that in the Southeast, at mid Atlantic, that recovered a little faster. And then the leisure travel, as we all talk about in this industry, that's still going on now. Although I think people are a little. Little fatigued at this point. I think the summer revenge travel has kind of started to slow down and will hopefully post labor day get into a more normal flow mm-hmm for, for everybody, for our housekeepers and GMs and sales people to.
Be able to manage.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And it, and also through that, I think earlier in the conversation, you said, you know, in that April to, you know, early on, then it also gave you a time to kind of pause and regroup. And is that when you really had the time to yeah. Think about pivoting [00:40:00] into. The more independent boutique space and like for sure,
Stephen Wendell: yeah.
Okay. It was, it was, it was that time and it was like, man, you know, what do I want to do? Right. Cause too often you're just doing the things that you're doing and you don't stop to think about what you want to do. And so. And we didn't know whether our investors wanted to be with us on that journey. We've had a ton of success and that doesn't mean we're gonna stop doing slight service and we, if there's an opportunity to do it and it makes sense, we'll do it.
Um, it's just that this is a bit more of a passion now, and we gotta kind of see how this thesis proves out. Right. We can't just do one. We've done a F. Two that are working and we've got two or three more. Uh, one of which is with will be with a brand will go soft branded, most likely. Um, mm-hmm and so we have to see how that works out.
Um, we kind of had an initial thesis when I got involved to do these secondary market college down select service that worked out well. But I think the, the world of hospitality and what guests want has changed a lot, [00:41:00] certainly over the last 20 years, also over the last 10, over the last five, and then through COVID, um, there's a high expectation to deliver an experience, um, at a hotel.
And that includes everything down to the drink that you get at night before you go to bed and to the coffee you drink in the morning when you wake up.
Dan Ryan: Totally. Um, and then, you know, as you say, secondary and tertiary college, I always think to have as tight of a market segment target as possible. Um, it's limiting in many ways, but it's also super focused.
So you can really drive a lot of, um, success there. And I'm, I'm also just amazed at the success over, I guess, almost 10 years that graduate hotels has had. Right. And just really creating those independent properties in these secondary tertiary and now primary right. Uh, college towns. And I'm. It's really cool to watch what they're doing.
And it, again, you think about it, it's like, why didn't anyone think about that before? You know?
Stephen Wendell: Yeah, I know. And, and, you know, [00:42:00] AJ capital is they're, they're some of the best, right? They not only do they do it there, they do it across all their asset classes and whether it's building a so house and the right neighborhood and, and, and kind of creating hospitality that way, or whether it's doing one of their graduate hotels.
Ann Arbor or, um, you know, wherever these cool college sounds and they they've been able to go in and get, you know, location, location, location, right. They've, they've found really kind of hard to obtain properties. Um, and, and often that is the, the main point on a college. Visit right. Whether you're coming to, to go to a, you know, a game at the, the big house, or if you're coming to visit your kid for the weekend, you want to be close to the action.
And so they've been able to, to reactivate some old buildings and build new ones that are, that are really great.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. So I totally agree. And then as let's go back to the baseball metaphor, as you're kind of redefining and re refining your [00:43:00] strike zone, mm-hmm , um, what's exciting. You most about the future?
Stephen Wendell: Yeah. I, I mean, I think I'm excited to see these hotels that we're working on open. And see, I say that all the time on camp town, I can't wait to be watching a guest come out of one of the cabins with a drink going down to a fire pit or to the, you know, pool or to the Tavern and, and kind of see the guest experience that we have, um, imagined.
Um, and that quite frankly, just being honest is not something that you look forward to. Necessarily at one of these select service hotels, because that's the whole point. It's like a non fuss. You come in, this is what it's gonna be. You know what it's gonna be, you know, where the coffee's gonna be. You know, what kind of breakfast you're gonna get.
I already know that guest experience. That's the whole point of franchise hotels and there's a place for them. They've obviously very successful. The reward systems are undeniably, uh, valuable, but what is great [00:44:00] is kind of imagining that experience from scratch depending on what, what your hotel is. And then what we're really looking forward to is seeing how they experience it.
And we hope they love it, you know? Yeah. There's a lot. Risk that they won't. Uh, but uh, we think if you pour your heart into it, they will,
Dan Ryan: I'm pretty confident that they will love it. And I know you mentioned, um, you know, with the shift in thesis with your investors, whether they will love it. as you were saying, your concern there before you brought up the metaphor of the fire pit in the fall.
Yeah. I was like, your investors are going to love that come Columbus day weekend when you're charging six or $800 or a thousand dollars a night for those yeah. Those cabins, like it's gonna be freaking amazing and I'm just, I'm, I'm super excited for you in your journey.
Stephen Wendell: Yeah, no, we are too. And I will say, you know, the, the managers in camp town that, that have their operate Rivertown lodge in Hudson now is one of the things we will focus on is, [00:45:00] is price point.
Right? I think they've made me think about that when you're a revenue management, slick service world, you're just like, okay, how high can we go? What do we need to do? We're solving for rev bar. And they, you certainly are gonna do that at any hotel you operate, but they, uh, Are very keen to not really crush on high weekends.
So that lo your, your repeat customer feels like they're being a little bit taken an advantage of, and that creates a lot of loyalty long term. And so there is a needle to thread there, and we've had a ton of kind of discussions over coffee or drinks about that. And it's been again, you collaborate with people that aren't just completely like-minded to you, and that's where the process is great.
And you evolve and I think become a better hotel owner because of it. Awesome.
Dan Ryan: Um, well, Steven, I'm just super excited to have had this conversation and to kind of get between your ears as far as like. Your evolution on your journey. And I know you're not alone in this, and I'm [00:46:00] just excited for this wave of independent and boutique hotels to carry on.
Um, if people wanna learn more about. Where you are, what you're up to, like, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you? Yeah.
Stephen Wendell: It's stephen@mountainshoreproperties.com. You know, we email, uh, whenever you want. And we, we, we look forward to, to receiving them. And then the website is www.mountainshoreproperties.com.
So, um, excited about the future
Dan Ryan: for sure. Awesome. And Hey, I want to thank you for your time. I know how busy you are and all with all the things going on, but thank you. Thank you.
Stephen Wendell: now. Thank you. You have a great weekend.
Dan Ryan: All right. And also, I also, most importantly, I also want to thank our guests because our, our listeners, because every week we keep growing and growing and growing, and it's super humbling and I'm hoping, or I'm confident.
That's because of the guests that we have and the content we're delivering. And, and if this is changed or shifted your, um, perspective on hospitality and where it's going and how to deliver it and how to receive. Please share it [00:47:00] along. It's uh, it's all word of mouth and we appreciate you. So thank you.