Defining Hospitality

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Dan Ryan: Today's guest is passionate about creating distinctive architecture and interiors for private and corporate clients.
He has worked on projects big and small, from multimillion dollar resorts to small home renovations and all things in between. He's a licensed architect who really loves hospitality interiors. He's a new entrepreneur as a result of reevaluating his life's purpose and passions. We'll get into that in a bit.
He is a partner at Murphy Kramer Design. Ladies and gentlemen, Jeff Kramer. Welcome Jeff. You're welcome. Thank you. Um, [00:01:00] it's so good to see you here and to have your time, so thank you. Uh, first of all, I just wanna say I'm grateful to be able to speak with you. Live deep in the heart of Texas.
Geoffrey Cramer: I, you know, I'm supposed to clap when you do that, but you know, I'm not actually from Texas, so, uh, you know that I lost it, you know.
Wait, where are you from originally? I'm from Bat Rouge, Louisiana, originally.
Dan Ryan: Oh my God. I always thought you were from Texas is amazing. I,
Geoffrey Cramer: I've been here longer than, uh, than Louisiana, so it's easy to understand. Um, Though they, they, you know, people who are from here like to hold that against me. Just, you're not actually from Texas.
Dan Ryan: Well, I always thought you were. So this is amazing and, uh, a new surprise. And that's what I always love about these conversations. Um, one of, one of the things that I know that we were speaking about or we've been speaking about for the past couple years, um, but also I want the guests to know and also what's super in.
Very [00:02:00] intriguing is this idea of being an accidental entrepreneur. Right? And a part of that in our conversations is, uh, I love entrepreneurs, a big proponent supporter of entrepreneurs. I am one myself, but I find that we as entrepreneurs can tend to be kind of more closed off. We're, this is the path we're following and these are the, this is my strategy, this is my plan.
This is. Tactics and how I'm gonna execute them. And we all do that in some way. But then there's the other entrepreneurs who can be open hearted and vulnerable and share like, Oh my God, I've not done this before. Like, do you have any experience doing that? And I think one of the things that's really intrigued me about you recently, even though we've known each other for a really long time, is how you do make.
Vulnerable in this kind of new entrepreneur hat that you're wearing. So I just wanted to hear about that and dig into [00:03:00] it, because I think we can all learn, and that's where the best parts of all these conversations are is, is, is in our, in our vulnerability. So how, how did you become an accidental entrepreneur?
Well,
Geoffrey Cramer: I mean, it wasn't, you know, accidental as much as, you know, is this idea ahead for a long time. And, you know, for those who've known me for a while, and you know, there's gonna be people that, you know, that laugh like Morgan Brody and like, okay, you know, if you've had this long range playing for as long as I've known you.
Um, but really what happened, um, was really just like you said, it was kind of this reevaluation of. You know, of what I wanted and of my, uh, my own life. Um, my, you know, seven years ago my father passed away. He was fairly young. Um, and it just gave me some time to think about, um, you know, what it, what is it that I want out of this?
I mean, what you only have, you [00:04:00] know, life is short. You only have so much time. And you know, what was it that I actually. Wanted, um, you know, and it was something that I had thought about for a long time. Um, I had been at the time with, uh, it was Siford Murphy for a couple iterations of partners and, um, I had been there for a couple years and.
By this point had really decided, um, you know, after trying numerous different things, um, that hospitality interiors was my, was my forte and what I really enjoyed doing. Um, you know, and that's a whole nother, you know, set of analysis on, on how I got there. But, um, You know, really just kind of sat down and broke the subject with Pat and Susan, uh, Pat, Pat Murphy and Susan Seifer.
And, um, we talked about [00:05:00] it and we discussed it and, um, You know, I, if you think it's hard to convince yourself to go out on your own, do that first and then go convince two other people to come along with you. Uh, that's sort of like this, like it was gut wrenching. Uh, it was a good,
Dan Ryan: that that's exactly the place where I'd love to dig into also, because, you know,
I think in, in, in sharing. I think the, the passing of any really close family member, especially in your immediate family, or I speak from my experience in my immediate family, it, um, even if it's known, if it's expected or un unexpected or expected, um, It creates this whole new life reevaluation, right?
Yeah. Um, and from my experience, when my father passed away, it was expected. He just was not healthy for a long time. [00:06:00] But I did all this soul searching and obviously it didn't end there. I still am, but um, I read this one book, it's called, um, Man's Search For Meaning by Victor Frankel. I don't know if you've read it.
Um, but it was really a pivotable book for me in the sense that before I read that book, I used to think about, um, you know, Hey, what do I want outta life? How, how am I gonna, you know, like throw would say like the marrow out of life and live life deliberately. But after I read that book, I, instead of thinking about what I want from.
I started thinking like, what does life want out of me? Like what's my calling? How do I get in there? Yeah. Right. So when you think about what life wants out of you and, and trying to convince yourself and then trying to convince others and that wrenching area that you, or that wrenching place that you were, like, how did you get the courage?
To take the steps forward to have those conversations, not just with yourself, but with others, because I think a lot [00:07:00] of us can always learn from this, not just in starting a business, but just in life.
Geoffrey Cramer: Um, I mean really obviously there, there was a good deal of self-evaluation and kind of thinking through things and, um, I mean, Not even just the planning aspect of it, you know, all the technical things of, you know, like, okay, what, you know, can I make this happen?
Do I have it Really just, it took getting enough courage of myself to say no matter what the, no matter what the result, you know, whether, you know, Pat and choose word, say, No, we're fine. See you later. Um, no matter or if they said yes, but no matter what the result that I was gonna be okay, no matter what that it was, you know, I would be able to figure something out that it wasn't gonna be this, um, you know, I wasn't gonna be struggling to go, How am I [00:08:00] gonna live?
I mean, you know, it just, but it took getting that courage of going, Okay. I, you know, right or wrong, or, you know, whatever the answer may be, I'm gonna be right. Yeah. You know, um, you know, so that, that was really sort of this turning point of, of, of doing that and just going, coming to that acceptance of, Hey, am I okay?
If they say yes, Hey, am I okay if they say no? And either way, I was gonna be just fine with the answer. You
Dan Ryan: know, as you're, as you're sharing that, Jeff, I'm thinking about, um, I was just at the lodge. Oh, I saw you. We were at the lodging conference together. Yes. Yeah. Um, did you go to the, um, the Women in Hospitality panel?
Uh,
Geoffrey Cramer: no, I missed that one. No, you didn't. Okay. Oh, no, no. Actually I did with, with, um, Helen and Venus.
Dan Ryan: Venus and Jady, and, um, yeah. Well, one of the, as you're saying that, um, it brought me back [00:09:00] to, um, Helen JSON with host who was up on stage, um, she said something to the effect that someone was asking about her, her journey and like, what, what, what sh could she share with herself or others?
And it was, it was this idea. Ask question and get, and have someone, someone else say yes or no to you. Don't have those conversations or be in that place where you are thinking about what the answers will be, right? So there's this like, this gap between, okay, put yourself out there, talk to your partners, get them to say yes or no, but to get over that hump with yourself to have the courage.
To ask the question like, so many people, me included, get caught in that speed bump of myself. Right, Right. To never even hear it. And then, then you put yourself out there and then you, Okay, it's a decision tree. It's, is this happening or isn't this happening? So I think to [00:10:00] hear you struggle with that courage to get over the speed bump of yourself to get to that point, I think we can all learn from, in every single aspect of our life, from personal to family and in, in, in
Geoffrey Cramer: business.
Yeah, I mean it was, um, you know, uh, that probably, you know, once that decision was made and once I realized, you know, realized that, um, you know, even just beyond, you know, broaching the subject of being a partner, it's helped me in a lot of different areas of like, I mean, especially after becoming a partner and all the different things that, you know, come along with that.
Um, Knowing and having that courage to go, Oh yeah, I can, I can do this. Mm-hmm. , you know, um, I've seen it before. I can, I've seen what I can do. Let me see what else is out there. Um, so that's been fun. That's a really cool part of, uh, the entrepreneurial world to kind of spirit. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And if you could think of a, of another time aside from, um, [00:11:00] You know, ha having the courage to convince yourself to have this kind of conversation.
Can you think of other times in your life or career where you, you know, in a way, you're, you could be your own worst enemy?
Oh,
Geoffrey Cramer: um, yeah, I can. Um, we, uh, we had this great opportunity, um, you've heard about it, but. You know, Hilton allowed us to, and awarded us that the, the project and task of redesigning the Homewood Suites prototype. Um, you know, and I am so task oriented, it's so, okay, they've got this impossible schedule. But I'm like, Okay, we've got it.
My team can do this is. Uh, we chased that schedule to begin with. Not as much on just trying to meet the dates that they had outlined. Um, and, you know, I hammered it into my team and was like, Okay, yeah. You know, we've gotta, we've gotta do this, this, you [00:12:00] know, they're never gonna make it unless we do whatever.
Um, and I thought we turned in, you know, or returned. Okay. Work. Um, It probably was not the best. Um, you know, because in my mind I'm thinking the priority here is the schedule and meeting what their expectations are. Um, where. Larry Traxler was so kind to explain that it was kind of the destination, you know, we're, we're really, we need to explore this.
We need to kind of unpack this. Don't worry so much about the schedule. Um, he, he didn't say it in quite that term, but, um, that was the gist of it. You know, we need to really, uh, kind of work through the process of design. And if it takes longer, it takes longer, but that's the priority, you know, not meeting this.
Um, and so, It was very much a, uh, learning experience to me where I'm like, [00:13:00] Okay, you know, you're getting in, you're overthinking this stuff. You're, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're chasing down sort of the wrong thing and you really, it took somebody else to kind of, uh, you know, to come back and kind of, you know, check us and say, Hey, no, that's, you know, essentially we were told that it was not good enough.
Go back and try again. Um, So that was really humbling, um, to, to have, to have to do that, especially with somebody that I respect a lot.
Dan Ryan: But I think that the lesson learned there is, again, you're, we all struggle with things and is this my best foot forward? Is this the best? Is this the per oftentimes, you know, it's like, and I don't know which General said this, I think in World War I, but it was basically perfect, is the enemy of good.
Right, so we can, we can get so tied in a knot over perfection that if we put ourselves out there [00:14:00] without the perfect answer, we're solution. If we put ourselves out there and then get that feedback from others, like sometimes that's the most powerfully changing and life altering information that we can get back.
But we're just scared to put ourselves out there so often. Right. Yeah.
Geoffrey Cramer: I mean, The, the big lesson behind that and for, you know, my team, um, was that, you know, and, and this sounds like a, you know, it would be counterintuitive, but like that everything is important, um, you know, not just one thing or the other.
Um, what we, the work product we turn out, um, and the, the way it is done and the way it's presented, Is just as important as the content. And a lot of times, um, you know, we would, oh, well we can talk through, these are just ideas on paper. These are, you know, they'll get through this [00:15:00] concept. Um, you know, conceptual idea and the graphics or the way we present it don't necessarily matter.
Um, we have changed our thinking on based on that. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: Well, You know, it's important and I, I think it also, obviously, like the podcast is defining hospitality, but you know, if you think about so many of these conversations, again, there's no binary answer, but it's so much about how you make others feel.
Right. And I'll, I'll get to your definition in a second, but you know, as an entrepreneur, so much of it is getting our teams and all of our stakeholders from clients to. Employees to just all the people that it takes, the whole village it takes to run and operate a business and get from point A to point B.
It's like it's, so much of it is making, [00:16:00] is giving so much of ourselves to make others better so we can all accomplish a task. Right, right. And I'm just, it just makes me think like with you as an entrepreneur and thinking. The others around you, and you may see someone else on your team or another stakeholder kind of struggling with making that decision within themselves before they can put it out to you.
How do you help others, um, get the, that courage again to feel comfortable enough to, to share with you?
Geoffrey Cramer: So, I mean, really it just, uh, it. Time. I mean, the best answer I have is time. Um, it's not one of those things, you know, every once in a while you'll run into somebody and you'll just click and it feels like, hey, that's right.
But, um, for the most part, a lot of people take, um, it's, it's getting to know, you know, any one of my team [00:17:00] enough to, you know, some of them. Some of them, you just know that something's not right. And I'll go and talk to them and they won't come to me. But, um, even though I tell 'em, Hey, my door's open all the time whenever you need to talk about this, or, you know, work related or not work related, but, um, but they won't come anyway.
And so I'll go to them cuz I, I'm like, okay. And then some of them are, you know, all it took was just me saying Anytime, come on in and they are here, you know. More than, you know, more than necessary at times. Um, but, but both is fine. I mean, really both is fine. Um, you know, it's just, I wanna know, you know, Or it, it takes getting to know them, you know, well enough to know, uh, you know, when they're struggling, when they're having issues.
When you, you also be, be present. . Um, you know, it's like having kids, you know, you gotta, if you're not there, you're not gonna see sense what's going on. Um, you know, [00:18:00] not that my employees are children, um, but you know, the, they sometimes they feel like it, I guess. I think,
Dan Ryan: and I also think everyone, even though they're not children, they're obviously not children, but it's, it is this idea that relationships are these things, whether with our family or people outside of our family or just other people like.
They just require nurturing. Right. And it, you know, as you were talking, I had a vision of like, every single professor in every university has office hours. How many students actually go in and use them? Yeah.
Geoffrey Cramer: I, I could count on like one hand, you know, only when there's usually with problems, but I mean, gosh, I mean, it's not nearly as often as probably we should.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Well, okay, so then I think that's also a good segue to like the topic of the conversation, which is defining hospitality. And if you think about getting, helping others become the best version of themselves or get over that, [00:19:00] that inner conflict, it's about making them feel comfortable enough to do it right, to open up and be vulnerable.
How do, how do you define hospital?
Geoffrey Cramer: So, I mean, I really think, um, you know, well, one, uh, there, you know, it's like, are you talking the, uh, the industry or are you talking the individual, you know, the, the actual noun of, you know, hospitable? Um,
Dan Ryan: all of the above. Yes. D all of the above.
Geoffrey Cramer: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, You know, really it's being, or providing, strangers or guests, kind of this comfortable, warm, friendly, welcoming sort of experience.
Uh, you know, and really in whatever sort of, um, you know, uh, I wrote myself a note just so I can make sure I remember, but for, you know, and what are sort of experiences they're there for, um, you know, part of that has to do with being. Intuitive. [00:20:00] so there's a little bit of anticipation on, our side.
Um, you know, when, when we were working on this prototype, uh, a lot of the time was, spent kind of defining who the guests were and then a lot of time kind of anticipating what their needs would be. and sometimes even before they were, you know, before they even know it, you're kind of anticipating in advance what, what kind of situations they may be in and what kind of needs would they be looking for, and how can we comfort and provide them a comfort, warm and welcoming experience.
Um, and so I think that sort of tiptoes around the question, I think a little bit, but it provides it, uh, you know, uh, pretty well. Kind of my thoughts on it.
Dan Ryan: This idea of anticipation is just so [00:21:00] difficult in anything, and I don't know. You know, you go to the, some of the best restaurants they can, there can be some badgering, Hey, are you okay with water? Do you want another drink?
You want? Or you can be in these places where, I don't know how they do it. Esp like coming to mind as like Singapore Airlines, you're flying, you're on this really long flight. Somehow they just know when you're thirsty and they bring you a glass of water, they don't even ask. It's like they just know. And I know it's not telepathy.
Right. I know it's a trained. Observation. And I think what's also interesting, you know, to think about that idea of anticipation and ha wanting everything to be perfect, but realizing that it can't be perfect. It also makes me think about, you know, your journey from being an architect. To focusing on hospitality interiors, where I find like, again, not all, but most of the architects I know are [00:22:00] you like so inflexible and like, this is my thing I'm doing, it's perfectly designed and and this is my edifice of whatever.
Right, right, right. And then you switch over to the hospitality side of things or even on the interiors, which is what the people are interacting with. You really have to think. How they're re interacting. And again, I think personally, I'm also biased that that's the most important part of any building is what's going on in the inside.
So how did you make that journey from architect to interiors and specifically in hospitality? Like what draws you there? Well, I
Geoffrey Cramer: mean the, you know, this is. The simple answer was just dumb luck. Um, you know, is really how I got into it. But the kind of longer answer was, um, you know, exposure and working with, uh, you know, I guess my first exposure to [00:23:00] it was with Leo Daley and working with Pat Miller there, um, and kinda really understanding a little bit more.
Um, you know, about what hospitality experience was or you know, about hospitality design and that kind of thing. Um, and then when I came to the firm that is now Murphy Kramer Design, you know, 17 years ago, um, I really came as an architect to do these, you know, high end residential projects. And, um, because of my background and having some hospitality interiors experience, we, uh, You know, I, I got to work on some, you know, they always had that as part of the project or part of what I was doing.
Um, but really in the 2008 and 2009 downturn when, you know, things really went kind of south all over the place. Uh, the, the only work we had was, was hospitality. And, um, [00:24:00] I was like, Okay, this is, this'll be fine. Um, you know, And then I think it was probably 2011, maybe 2012. Um, and where I really, you know, I had to sit down and kind of think, Hey, the market's kind of opening up again.
What do I really wanna focus on? Um, and this is the kind of the question of where you kind of go through a rubric of like, okay, you know, what do I like about it? What do I don't like? You know, kind of this pros and cons. And, um, ultimately I came to the decision. You know, I really like what I do. Um, I love the industry and, um, you know, I love everything about it and I'm gonna really kind of wholeheartedly kind of go after it.
Um, and that's, that's the short, short, not so short answer to that question of how I actually got into it.
Dan Ryan: And also just thinking about the evolution from Sire Murphy to Murphy Kramer. You know, I would always think of you [00:25:00] guys doing high end residential, you know, three plus to five star, I don't know, standalone, like in one off hotels, right?
Brand like this is is a sense of place and this is this. So it's actually really cool that Hilton had the. I guess insight to say, Hey, let's give these guys a try to see how they can do on Homewood Suite, which is like an icon, iconic brand that's, you know, been around forever but not in a sandbox that you're used to playing in.
And it's super, um, that must have been of like just an such an incredible exercise and, and change of thinking. And also just focusing on the, the, who is the guest and what is the anticipation of that guest needs.
Geoffrey Cramer: Correct. Yeah. So I mean, with our background in doing, you know, luxury resorts kind of all over the, the South and Caribbean and [00:26:00] Mexico and Latin America, um, it really, we got pretty adept at, you know, kind of this workflow of how do we go identify, you know, you know, really immerse ourselves in the culture, really understand, um, you know, the locale and the, and the people.
Um, so. And, and then how that affects and, you know, affects the design of what we do. Um, you know, so that's really, you know, we still carry that sort of thought even though we haven't designed a, uh, a resort since, uh, gosh, years ago. I mean, Baha Mar, I think was the last one we even worked on. You know, and but that same philosophies, that same process we bring to each one of those.
So while it was a different sort of, um, a completely different. You know, project type, um, you could kind of bring the same sort of thought process through to that. Um, and then, [00:27:00] you know, Hilton was very adept at, at, at really kind of walking us through and they have some great people, um, on their design team and on the other side that, uh, really kind of as we, as we all worked through this and all worked through, okay, who are the guests, how do we define them, what do they need?
Um, you know, it really, it was a great. It, it really kind of supplemented what we kind of do. Um, you know, as we kind of thought through things, stuff that we still carry through on new projects. I mean, like, it was a definite learning experience for us.
Dan Ryan: But I know that when I was speaking to Hilton and hearing that they were Retting Homewood Suites, the first thing that popped into my mind was, are they gonna keep the duck?
Where's the duck going? Where is the duck going? Is the duck there? Like, what's, what's going on it, uh, hiding in
Geoffrey Cramer: other ways. So, uh, The duck actually has a name. Um, his name was Lewis. [00:28:00] Um, uh, and he is no longer, you know, the, the prototype was set in Memphis. And so we joked that, you know, mi that, that Lewis has left the building.
Uh, he is not involved. Um, they, there's been a party of ways as we speak, you know, that, uh, they have. They've kind of really modernized everything. And that was, while it, that kind of hunting lodge, duck camp sort of feel, um, was good for, you know, when the brand started. Um, they've made it, it's progressed and on,
Dan Ryan: on the history of the, of the brand.
Did the bra, I know Hilton's, they have a, um, a quasi headquarters for a lot of the select service in Memphis. Um, But was the brand home with suites, did that start in Memphis as well? Uh,
Geoffrey Cramer: I do not know the answer to that. I should. Okay. But I do not,
Dan Ryan: The reason why I was asking is cuz I remember one time, [00:29:00] I think it was just after college, I was with, uh, two of my closest friends.
We were sitting in the Peabody playing cards in Memphis. Mm-hmm. and there was no one there. We were just having some drinks playing. Playing cards and then out of nowhere it, I felt like all these busloads of people just entered the lobby literally from the mezzanine all around us. Literally busloads. It got so crowded and then all of a sudden some guy in like a fancy jacket came in with AKA wand or a marching band staff and was the duck.
Is it the duck master? It's a thing. Yes. Yeah. So anyway, he got to the fountain that we were sitting next to and the ducks like hopped out and went into the elevator, and I guess they live upstairs, but I was just very surprised that all these people came to see the ducks.
Geoffrey Cramer: Yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a thing, I guess, uh, , uh, I, I have taken my children there to see it, so I mean, you know, [00:30:00] people do come just to see that.
Um,
Dan Ryan: well that and Graceland, right?
Geoffrey Cramer: Uh, they did not go to Graceland, but, you know, I guess, or
Dan Ryan: Motel Lorraine, which also I think everyone should definitely see. Um, Memphis is a cool town. I just started reading the Blind Side, uh, with my son as we drive everywhere, and that all takes place in Memphis as well.
I need a trip back there. It's been a long time, especially with the, the new Elvis movie that just came.
Geoffrey Cramer: Which, uh, if you haven't seen, is pretty fantastic.
Dan Ryan: It's amazing. It is. So I thought it would be so overdone and like, so like Quin, essentially like overdone lumen, but it was, it just showed Elvis in a whole different way.
That was really, really cool. And I really suggest everyone see that. Um, but as, as we digress, see the ducks, they take us on a journey.
Geoffrey Cramer: Just get us way off course .
Dan Ryan: Yeah, but it's good. We always, we everyone needs more ducks in their life. Um, so then you got really uncomfortable [00:31:00] redesigning or do it not really uncomfortable, you stepped into a new sandbox, so to speak, re re redesigning the Homewood, uh, Suites brand and working in lockstep with Hilton to do that.
Um, a departure from what you were used. And now you think about where you're like, okay, so you've had that experience, You still have all of your, your luxury experience where like what's exciting you about your new entrepreneurial path forward?
Geoffrey Cramer: Well, I mean one thing that I think is fascinating is, um, you know, with Susan retiring, um, our.
So the amount of luxury work we get is not, you know, not like it used to be. Um, and that's really okay. But we're doing a lot more with lifestyle, uh, projects. Um, we just got back from, uh, we still do a lot down in Latin America. [00:32:00] Uh, we just got back from the Dominican Republic, um, reviewing model room, um, down there for a, uh, you know, a soft branded, uh, hotel.
Called Ho Hotel Santiago. Um, and then, you know, we just, were about to kick off another soft branded hotel in, uh, you know, Truckee, California. So, um, you know, those kind of things are really, uh, they're just fun. I mean, it's taking sort of that luxury mindset and, um, How it, it, you know, where it's very similar to what we did with the Homewood is how do you take this luxury mindset and kind of apply it to things that maybe are not quite as luxury that, or that you know, more, that are more accessible for, uh, the, uh, the average consumer.
Dan Ryan: So for the project and Trucky, are you gonna, are there gonna be any, um, [00:33:00] kind of cannibalistic themes going on at that hotel?
Geoffrey Cramer: Not that we not yet. Um, but you know, the, uh, there may be like a standing reservation for the Donner party. I'm not sure. Um, I don't know. Uh, it will have a rooftop hotel, um, I mean rooftop restaurant, and, and that was bar, so
Dan Ryan: that was a really good one.
Do you think you'll have fish on the menu? Just for the halibut?
Geoffrey Cramer: Okay. Uh, I don't know. Dunno, we haven't gotten that far. Haven't gotten that far. Um,
Dan Ryan: Oh, halibut that. Yeah. I love it when my dad jokes get to come out. Yeah. I mean
Geoffrey Cramer: that is, I keep telling everybody, they're like, they roll their eyes here and I'm like, Just give it time.
You guys will, you guys will learn to appreciate it. Um, I totally agree.
Dan Ryan: Um, so a bunch of new projects coming up and then anything else, like, did this retting on the, on the select [00:34:00] service side of things? Help you with a new strategy in your business as well.
Geoffrey Cramer: Um, we have been asked for, proposed to propose on a lot of, of the select service, especially with involved with the Homewood.
People know we've done the brand, uh, done the prototype, and um, it just, sometimes you just need to stay in your lane and understand what you are best at. Um, It, you know, and I say that lightheartedly, but it's also true. I mean, uh, for the most part we've proposed on 'em and are not winning any of them.
And I don't know how be God bless the people that, uh, that can do these as cheaply as they do, but we can't , you know, I mean, it's just, uh, I have tried and I'm not really sure how it pencils out. Um, you know, so we kind of stay in our lane. Um, you know, everything but select service, I guess. Not [00:35:00] saying if there was the opportunity we would do it, but it just is, uh, you know, it's one of those things where it's just, I get it and the, uh, the, the owners that have come to us are very apologetic and I'm like, you know, I get it.
I understand it. And, um, you know, thank you for the opportunity, I guess,
Dan Ryan: but also the idea of staying in your lane. Is a really powerful and also scary prospect, right? Because to be, I think, I think to be really successful at anything, you know, you need to be hyper focused in your, in what you're best at, right?
You find that zone of genius and you stay in there. But when you're hyper focused and you stay in your lane as an that and pay rent and keep, you know, keep the wheels moving, it's scary to focus in on. Tight little bullseye at the expense of not working on so much of what else is out there. That,
Geoffrey Cramer: that is definitely one of the [00:36:00] scarier parts.
And you know, when, uh, you know, Pat and I talk a lot about, okay, you know, business strategy, how we're pricing things, what are we really looking at? And, you know, um, We will, we do our best to go after him. I mean, like, it's not like we're, oh, we're just ignoring that stuff. Um, but we know our strong suit. And so the thing is to really kind of, it's not as, sometimes there's kind of a, a slight broadening of your focus.
Um, you know, getting into some of these true lifestyle hotels, um, has been something we've been kind of slowly kind of working towards a little bit. Um, You know, more than I would say I'm super comfortable with. I've got team members who are phenomenal at it and, um, you know, It, it just, you know, so it's kind of one of those things where you, you can't just say, Okay, here's my focus and I'm gonna totally reshift into left field.
But if you can [00:37:00] kind of slowly expand your focus, um, as the opportunity arises, um, you know, that's kind of more of, it's a subtle shift then a complete about face sort of thinking. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: You know, I've heard you say lifestyle hotels a couple times and rethinking about what that is. I've. It's obvious. I think like I, if I see a lifestyle hotel, I could probably tell you, Hey, that's a lifestyle hotel.
And it's obvious that like so much investment from Hilton, ihg, uh, Marriot a core going into this space and, and everyone else, I don't mean to only focus on them, um, but like when you think of what a, a lifestyle hotel is versus. A, a boutique hotel or a resort, Like how do you differentiate what a lifestyle hotel is from everything else?
Because I feel like, [00:38:00] and there might not, there's probably not a wrong answer, but it seems like there's a lot of flexibility with what a lifestyle hotel is on the margin. So what does it, what does it mean to you? So
Geoffrey Cramer: I think a lot of that has to you. Has to do with what demographic they're trying to hit, you know, as for a lifestyle, a hotel.
So some of the, you know, the more, um, the ones really geared towards the, the younger, um, you know, generations, you know, like a Moxi, um, you know, that Marriott has. Um, you know, that's pretty obvious to me. I mean, like, it's, it's fun, it's lighthearted, it's got, you know, All the things that go with it, it's kind of quirky.
Um, you know, the, when you get into. Say, which we also do a good bit of, or we, we do look a bit of is the, the Canopy by Hilton. So, um, you know, when you look at those and it's a different [00:39:00] sort of, um, demographic that they're going after, it's a little bit, a little bit older. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be, um, a younger generation, but it's a little bit more serious.
But they all tend to have sort of, um, you know, this. Heavily sort of community aspect to them. Um, you know, they tend to be a little more, uh, casual in their thinking. It's not a super serious sort of, you know, high design and we don't do, But, you know, the, the crazy thing about lifestyles that it could, I mean, you go look at some of, um, you know, the things.
Um, which the Kelly Worler just, I just did down in Austin. Um, like the proper, the proper, you know, I think that fits a lifestyle sort of, um, definition, but it's getting a little bit out of that, you know, it's not quite as, um, you know, funky. I, [00:40:00] I could be way wrong. I, I, you know, I really, I could just, but you know, it just, it's really, I mean, I don't have a great answer to it.
Um, you know,
Dan Ryan: if, if, going back to when you were first talking about your Homewood Suites experience, and also I think it ties into just kind of staying in your lane and being super focused. What, what I kind of picked up from you there, it's like, Being super clear about who your guest is for lifestyle, right?
Yeah. And it's, it's focusing in on that psychographic or demographic. I think it's more of a psychographic than a demographic, to be perfectly honest. It's really like a state of mind that, you know, you're focusing in on that traveler or guest at the expense of many, many others. Not all others, but many others.
And again, I think it just reaffirms that idea, that focus. Works focus helps [00:41:00] deliver so many things. Focus is a thesis focus, um, is a goal. It's an achievable, measurable goal. Um, and it help if you, if, if we're all super focused about things, we can get there much easier than trying to please everyone.
Right? Yeah.
Geoffrey Cramer: And I, and I think that that is true. Um, You know, it, that's like I mentioned, one of the things we really have carried over, um, you know, some of the brands now require a branding package and you know, they have somebody else doing that. But when that is not being done by an outside source, it is something we will do, uh, in house.
Just to help us internally define. You know, the, the clearer you are, the more definition of you. Can you as to who the guest is and what kind of experience, you know, they are there for? Um, the, the better off we are, the better off everyone is. Um, it's been real fun. We've got a crazy little project up in [00:42:00] Cripple Creek, Colorado, um, which is up behind Pike's Peak, just outside of, uh, Fort Collins.
And. I'm sorry, Colorado Springs, not Port Collins. And, uh, you know, it's a gold mining town, you know, they allow gambling and they're really trying to, they're struggling to figure out how and who, um, who their next guest will be. And so we've been able to work through them with that, which has been kind of fun.
Um, you know, and be able to bring some of that thought of like, Hey, let's clearly identify who you're actually going. Um, as future hotel guests, um, not just the ones you have, but who do you want? Um, you know, don't, don't ignore the ones you have, but you know, if you were to add to it, how would we go about that?
So, that's been really fun.
Dan Ryan: You know, I also think about as far as identifying who the guest would be, I would think that [00:43:00] the documentation and the data that Hilton would have, Would be way more robust and clear than what an independent hotelier might have for their property in Cripple Creek, or it could, it could be anywhere.
Um, once you're presented with that data, either actual or aspirational or something in between, what are, what are the, like your kind of, what's your process as far as like taking that information and turning it into. A built environment that feels a certain way, like you said before, when you're talking about hospitality.
Geoffrey Cramer: Um, gosh, I mean the, you know, it's just one more sort of data point. One more sort of, uh, idea that we can help and kind of, you know, if it's a, you know, if, if say it's this Cripple Creek hotel and. [00:44:00] You, you have to, I mean, to, to, to wanna stay at 10,000 feet in the air is, uh, you know, above sea level is, you know, you have to be pretty determined, um, at that point.
And. And if, if you're not there for the gambling, what else? So you can start to create this story, create this idea of who these people are and what they would be looking for. Um, you know, it's like, okay, somebody's doing that is pretty adventurous. Okay. Somebody, you could start to deduce a lot of things and that will start to kind of affect the way we are designing a hotel.
You know, it's gonna be a little bit more casual, it's gonna be a little bit, you know, so you start to kind. Make assumptions, I guess, um, based on that demographic and based on who we've identified as, as the target audience for this. Hmm. But it's not a real, you know, direct science I guess. It's not like, Oh, we can say go from here to here to here, or that's, Yeah.
But
Dan Ryan: I guess ultimately it's, um, [00:45:00] it's really taking all that data or who that ideal customer or guest is and really. Developing a thesis off of it that I guess through a iterative, collaborative process, all the stakeholders can kind of agree on. And then you build from there. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. But, but I would imagine the brief you would get from Hilton would be like ginormous.
Geoffrey Cramer: The um, the speed and detail that Hilton can provide, things like that was phenomenal to me. I mean, I just, the data that they could collect. Astronomical. I mean, they could, you know, there was at times we had, um, we needed answers on something and they're like, Well, we will go pull, um, you know, our, our honors members and they have some honors members that they know they can quickly get an answer from.
And they, they can get you, you know, like down to, Hey, what's a priority? Um, you know, I'm [00:46:00] making something up, but like, uh, Um, whether you need a, a bathtub in the, in the, in the bathroom or, or sh or is you okay with a free standing shower? I mean, it's not worth, I'm just making that one up. But, um, but they can come back to you with surprising accuracy.
Um, Within a couple weeks, like, you know, give it 10 days. Um, and then just the other data that they can pull by their online sort of systems and, you know, it, it's mind boggling. Um, it really is. I mean, it just, um, it was, it was phenomenal. I mean, it was just really, uh, pretty amazing. And I know all the other brands have that same sort of ability to do that.
I'm assuming that they can all tap into that as needed, but, You know, uh, it was, it was pretty impressive.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. And I mean, they must have it, especially when you think about, you know, if you have 15 to 30 something [00:47:00] brands under your umbrella so to speak, it's, um, you have to be able to get super granular and then whatever the g, whoever the guest is right now, It's probably different than the guest in 10 years, just because people age their needs and wants and desires.
Everything is always changing. Yeah.
Geoffrey Cramer: It's, which is not bad when you're talking from a, you know, a design standpoint to kind of have this continual, uh, refresh of things and thoughts that you kind of constantly, It's never, you know, one and then we're, Oh, we figured it out. We're done for the rest of it. You know, it's, it's always.
You know, I mean, especially as everybody's kind of, all the brands are moving to this, you know, fixed renovation cycle and, um, you know, trying to plan out when they renovate things for everybody, um, you know, it, there's some, you know, it, it makes it really nice for us to know, okay, in the next couple years we're gonna have this happen or that happen, or they're gonna need to renovate all this.
Or, um, you [00:48:00] know, when a new prototype or something else comes out that, uh, you know, people say, Hey, we've gotta. There's sort of, there's some planned, and obsolescence is not as a good word, but maybe, um, at least we can know there's gonna be work coming for the next couple years.
Dan Ryan: Yeah. Cuz we always need to reinvent.
Um, when you're, when you're within, I guess when you're within your, your zone so to speak, or with operating within your go, your, your goals and your, and your, your focus or. A new project that is kind of outside of there. Do you have a similar way to kick off each project? I'm thinking like it's the first day of school, you get a brand new trapper keeper or new notebooks or pen like, and then, you know, you just go in, it's a fresh, clean start.
It's a clean slate. Do you have a, a certain way that you like to kick off your new projects that you're working on?
Geoffrey Cramer: Well, I mean we, we tell pretty much. All of our clients [00:49:00] in some to some degree, they'll, they'll, you know, let us do this in some, you know, it's not feasible. But, um, we really like to have a, a kickoff with all the members in the team, you know, on site, you know, with, uh, you know, get all the stakeholders there to really understand what the actual project is and to understand kind of, you know, that's sort of a given.
That's what we always do. Um, You know, and then from there, um, You know, it's, it's kind of this, and I don't mean standard's, not a great word to say it, but we, we, you know, kind of go through our, our process of, you know, analysis of the site, analysis, the locale. Um, sometimes ideally that's on site, you know, sometimes we've had to do, you know, we, it's not been feasible and we'll have to do things, uh, you know, be the power of the internet.
But, um, for the most part it's on site and really kind of understanding a project. And, um, getting a good feel [00:50:00] for it and then, you know, bring it back to, to Dallas to, and, you know, and really kind of work through that and what it is, this project is
Dan Ryan: awesome. Um, alright, now I wanna get in the time machine with you.
I want you to go back to Baton Rouge, I guess before you went away to college, right? So there's, what is that, the 17 or 18 year old of you? Probably with a lot more hair. Right.
Geoffrey Cramer: Yeah. Right. .
Dan Ryan: What, And let's just pretend you arrive in front of yourself, and what advice do you give yourself for the future? Um, gosh,
Geoffrey Cramer: I, I think it goes back to how we kicked off this, you know, this talk, but it'd be basically just have confidence in yourself.
Have confidence to know that, um, you know, That no matter the outcome, um, it's never the end of the world. Um, and [00:51:00] that, you know, you're gonna be all right no matter what. Yeah.
Dan Ryan: And I think to build on that and just hearing you, you know, get up the courage to have the conversation that we've started the conversation off with, like, I, I gotta reach out to figure out how she said it, but it's really.
Stop having the conversation within yourself. It's, it, it'll be a yes or a no, but we all need to just get better at just putting it out there and hearing if it's a yes or a no, or oftentimes it's not a yes or no, it's some other path. Right? Uh, the
Geoffrey Cramer: buildup is always, you know, that you, in your mind is, is far greater than what this, the answer is gonna come back to be.
I mean, cuz my, my mind was, okay, well there. A simple yes or no question, if they would, you know, patents, who gonna entertain this idea and let's kind of go down this path. And I had already worked towards, they're gonna, you know, be pissed off and they're going to, you [00:52:00] know, lock me out and they're gonna, you know, like my mind had gone from something, which should have been very simple to like the worst case scenario.
And um, you know, it's like when people say what, you know, what's the worst gonna happen? They, they're just gonna say, And, um, you know, which they had done once before already. So that was, this was not the first time that this had come up. Um, you know, so it just, it it's, you know, you kind of work yourself up into things.
You go, Okay, this is gonna be horrible. Um, and it really is not nearly as, um, um, as bad as, uh, our mind makes it out to be.
Dan Ryan: And if you okay so much in the same way. You know, giving yourself advice if there are any other,
if there's anyone else, whether it's starting a business or making a big life decision, and they're kind of wrestling with the choice between their [00:53:00] two ears right there, there, it's all going on in their head. What, from your experience, can you share with those out there who were struggling with a big decision?
To take that first step.
Geoffrey Cramer: So, I mean, probably one of the biggest, uh, I have a very good friend. Um, and so one of the, one of the biggest things that was helpful was to actually have somebody, a sounding board that I, um, that I knew that they would give me solid advice. I knew they had the kind of business acumen.
Um, you know, it was somebody that I trusted, um, that hey, we could sit down and kind of talk through. And I would say if you don't have somebody like that, you know, find somebody, um, you know, if you're, you know, there are avenues out there to kind of, to, to, to find people if you don't need, if you need that advice.
Um, you know, but really kind of need that sounding board, um, that, that somebody that you can go to, go [00:54:00] back to and say, Okay, this is my thought. What do you think? And he's gonna shoot it to you straight.
Dan Ryan: Um, I totally agree, and also just from my experience too, it's, it's having the courage internally to just be like, go in, open up, be vulnerable, and take that step to ask that person, ask that sounding board or the people who are sounding boards, or to just have that uncomfortable conversation cuz it's uncomfortable.
The most uncomfortable conversations we can ever imagine having or have had. I think we've all materially changed after having those. I would say I would argue more often for the better because no matter the outcome, being uncomfortable helps us become better versions of ourselves. Right. It helps us grow.
Yeah,
Geoffrey Cramer: I know. I would agree with that.
Dan Ryan: Cool. Um, Jeff, if people wanted to get in touch with you or learn more about, um, Murphy Kramer design, like how do [00:55:00] they do that?
Geoffrey Cramer: Um, they can either email me, um, directly, I'm happy to give that out, which is g kramer mc design.com or, um, you know, I'm pretty easily accessible on our website or LinkedIn.
Um, kind of any one of those is probably the best way, but. Cool. Yeah, And I've got an Instagram, but it has nothing to do with what we do. It's just kind of random stuff that I post out here, you know? All right, well, we'll
Dan Ryan: put that up in the notes, and I think I'm gonna see you again in a couple weeks, depending, Actually, maybe, we'll, we'll push this airing up a little bit, because I'm gonna be out there for the, There's a big H thing going on, I think in a week or 10 days.
Geoffrey Cramer: Yeah, it's next week I think. And you're gonna 24th.
Dan Ryan: Fourth and 27th. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I'll put, I don't remember, but yeah. Okay. Well I'm hoping I'll get to see you and, um, I know in the past I've always said that, um, [00:56:00] This is always, it's every week this show has grown and grown and grown. Um, I'm just, now it's all been word of mouth, but now I'm just starting to reach out to some people who I think would be interested on LinkedIn to give it a shot and a listen, um, as we continue to grow.
And so, thanks if you're listening to this for the first time, if anyone else is, has been listening to this over and over, which I know a lot of people have, um, I hope that this has, Change your idea on make, making others have the courage to become better versions of themselves or really think about what the built environment is for hospitality.
If this has changed your thinking or reaffirmed your thinking, again, please share this. Um, we're really excited to grow and keep getting the message out. And again, um, Jeff, thank you so much for your
Geoffrey Cramer: time. Thank you, Dan. It's
Dan Ryan: been fun. And everyone else, thank you so much for listening and we will be in
Geoffrey Cramer: touch.
[00:57:00]